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There are a lot of claims and misinformation about the Abortion Access and Reproductive Rights amendment on the November 7th ballot.

Fact checking Issue one with two leaders in the campaigns this week in the state of Ohio.

Welcome to the state of ohio.

I'm Karen Kasler.

Issue one is one of the two statewide questions on the November 7th ballot.

It would enshrine abortion rights into Ohio's Constitution and would also guarantee the rights to contraception, fertility treatment, continuing one's own pregnancy and miscarriage care.

And there have been a lot of claims about issue one that are questionable.

To go through some of them.

I spoke to the co-chair of the campaign to pass issue one and to Governor Mike DeWine.

The Ohio Republican Party strongly opposes issue one.

And as Ohio GOP Chair Alex Trant officially said on this show last week, the governor is a leader of our party in the state.

And it's important to the governor.

It's important to our party.

I talked to Governor DeWine remotely.

He was in his residence and I asked him questions via Zoom, starting with why he feels Ohioans should vote no on issue one.

We're really kind of going through a process, which is what we do in democracies, what we do in this country.

We talk about we talk about issues and if issue one passes, that debate ends.

It's in the Constitution.

And as I said, I think it just goes much, much too far.

If we defeat this, then we're all going to have to come back together as a state and come up with something that a majority of people can live with.

And I think we can do that.

For example, the majority of people in Ohio, the vast majority of people in Ohio, feel that there needs to be an exception for rape and incest.

So that certainly will be part of what, you know, together we would all come up with if this is defeated.

A ban on abortion after 22 weeks or viability is currently in effect.

The ban on abortions after six weeks with no exceptions for rape or incest, went into effect last summer.

It is on hold via litigation right now, but a case before the Ohio Supreme Court could result in it being reinstated.

I asked why and why Opponents of Issue one are talking about the 22 week ban and not the six week ban that most want back in place, presumably including DeWine since he's signed the six week ban into law.

You know what we really have had in the state is a debate about abortion.

And this was what was anticipated for those who want to overturn Roe v Wade.

We knew that this would come back to the states and there's a process to this.

So I think we can go through that process, have that discussion and come back again with something that is in a kind of a sweet spot of where the majority of Ohioans are.

But if this passage of this constitutional amendment passes, it really shuts down that debate.

It puts it in the Ohio Constitution.

I don't think there's an example of something that's gone in through a referendum like this into the Ohio Constitution has ever been overturned or the voters changed it.

So it becomes almost permanent in that constitution.

And I don't think that's where the majority of Ohioans are.

There's somewhere in between that.

The state's 2022 abortion report showed only 107 abortions between 21 and 24 weeks.

That's point 6% of the total number of abortions, and none were reported past 25 weeks.

I asked DeWine at the claim he and other opponents make that issue one would allow abortion at any time in pregnancy was honest.

Oh, absolutely.

You know, one of the reasons we do not have very many abortions late is because we stopped in Ohio.

We passed a a ban on partial birth abortion.

Partial birth abortion was perfected by this Dayton doctor, Dr. Haskell, and he was the lead proponent of it.

And he was he was doing a number of those every single year.

So, again, it's not a something that was just made up.

These were, in fact, happening.

So if you look at the numbers, the reason these numbers are down is because for a number of years, Ohio has had a ban on partial birth abortion.

That ban will go away.

When you look at this language, this is very, very open language.

It's written as broadly as it could be written.

And so there would be no way of stopping that late term abortion by a doctor, Haskell or anybody else.

So it's it's a it's a real thing.

It's real.

I also asked to whine about the claims that Issue one would override laws on parental consent in Ohio.

That goes against the legal analysis done by issue one opponent and Attorney General Dave Yost, who said the amendment does not address parental rights.

Well, look, we've we've talked to constitutional scholars and and ultimately it's going to come down to what a court says.

It's not what I say or what anybody else as it's frankly going to be what a court says.

But what we have to do, I think, is look at the language and determine whether or not there's a good chance that a court would, in fact, strike down our parental consent law.

If you look at the language, the law always assumes and that we have to assume that language was intended, that words were chosen for their very specific meeting in this constitutional amendment.

Those who wrote it wrote the word individual.

They could have said woman, which would have denoted a an adult.

They didn't do that.

They did not chose to do that.

They wrote individual individual.

Of course, it includes a minor.

So there's a very good argument.

I believe, that you could make that that it does, in fact, strike down the parental consent law in the state of Ohio.

Issue one is similar to an amendment that passed in Michigan a year ago.

While abortion rights activists there have called for eliminating that state's parental consent law.

Majority Democrats in the Michigan legislature did not include that in a package of changes that they've proposed to Michigan's abortion laws.

DeWine and other opponents have said issue one goes too far.

I asked him if he and other Republicans in the legislature have gone too far in banning abortion after six weeks and introducing bills that would ban it entirely.

You know, I think what we've seen is, you know, the heart so-called heartbeat bill was passed prior to the repeal of Roe v Wade, prior to the Supreme Court overruling Roe v Wade.

I think what happen is, since Roe was overturned, the reality of this has set in to people and people have really thought a lot more about where they are as an individual in regard to at what point abortion should be outlawed.

You have people on both sides.

You have some people who say abortion should be allowed at any point.

You have some people who say abortion never should occur, but they're in the minority.

The vast majority of Ohioans are somewhere in between.

So they're not the vast majority of Ohio's are not for abortion at any particular time.

And that's what this amendment does.

That's why this amendment is so that's why I use the term radical.

But we can come up with something in the middle, something that is acceptable to the majority of of Ohioans.

And I believe that we need the opportunity to do that.

But if we if people if we ended up passing this, the opportunity to change that, to modify it, to get it right, that all goes away.

And this becomes permanent, just not what we should do.

And I asked DeWine how he could guarantee that there wouldn't be further proposals to restrict abortion or moves to ban contraceptives and fertility treatments which are protected in the amendment.

Well, I think that you what assurance there can be is that the voters can always go back to a constitutional amendment.

And so everybody knows that.

And everybody now is focused on this debate.

So it's appropriate that we finish this in the sense that we come up together as a people in the state with where Ohio wants to be.

We're not California.

We don't think that abortion should be allowed at any point right up to birth.

That's not where Ohioans are.

And that's what this constitutional amendment would do.

We can achieve something.

We can achieve a result here, but we can only do it if this amendment is defeated.

This defense amendment is not defeated.

We're back.

You know, it's over.

The debate goes away and we're stuck with something where the vast majority of Ohioans are not comfortable with.

For the record, last year, California voters approved an amendment to prohibit the state from denying or interfering with an individual's reproductive freedom, including a person's right to obtain an abortion and a right to contraceptives.

The amendment did not overturn California laws banning abortion after viability.

I also sat down with the co-chair of Ohioans United for Reproductive Rights, the group that brought Issue one to the ballot, the ad that Governor Mike DeWine and First Lady Fran DeWine did.

It says the issue one amendment would allow abortion at any time in pregnancy.

When I asked the governor about how rare abortions after viability are, only point 6% of those reported last year were between 21 and 24 weeks, there were none.

After 25 weeks.

He said that's because Ohio banned abortions after viability and that issue one would overturn that ban.

Is that correct?

That is not correct.

Antiabortion politicians have been trying to ban abortion and mislead voters for decades.

And what issue one does is it stops the extreme abortion ban, that it's a life threatening ban.

It does not have exceptions for rape or incest.

Voting yes on issue one is the only way to ensure that women and families get to make the decision about abortion, about personal medical decisions, and not the government.

And when you talk about the ban, you're talking about the six week abortion ban, which some people call the heartbeat bill.

Yes, the heartbeat bill will go into place if issue one fails.

So we will have an extreme abortion ban here in Ohio if we do not pass ISSUE one.

One of the things that DeWine and some of the other opponents have said is that parental rights will be affected.

Now, the attorney general's legal analysis of issue one says parental rights are not addressed.

But the argument has been because of the use of the word individual in the amendment and not the word woman, that parental rights could be addressed could be challenged.

What what will parental rights be affected?

Parental rights will not be affected.

Individual is all throughout the Ohio revised code.

It's how laws are written by issue.

One does not change current law that says young people under 18 have to have a parent or guardian's permission to get an abortion or other medical procedures.

So that parental consent law would stay in place, even if issue one.

In the amendment that creates a go through.

Issue one does not change the current law.

So that is correct.

Why is miscarriage care one of the reproductive rights that is listed in the amendment that's already allowed under state law?

It's not under in practice.

When we had the 11 weeks where abortion was illegal, basically after six weeks, which is when most people know that they're pregnant, we saw physicians that were not sure that they could treat.

And so people had to travel out of state.

People should not have to travel out of state to get the care that they need.

And there should not be confusion for doctors around their medical practice or and we don't want any confusion when it comes to extreme health care.

Like this needs to be decided between patients and their doctors, not politicians.

Voting yes on issue one is the only way to ensure that women in their families get to make the reproductive health care decisions for themselves, not made by extreme politicians at Columbus.

And state law again right now is 22 weeks of viability, though the six week ban is still out there.

It's on legal hold right now.

If you want opponents have noted that the ban is at 22 weeks.

But if the Ohio Supreme Court makes the decision to reinstate the six week ban or makes a move for the six week ban is reinstated, that would change things.

And of course, there are no exceptions for rape or incest in the six week ban.

If issue one passes, DeWine said that there could not be any more further conversations about abortion, such as coming up with exemptions, exceptions and things like that.

What issue won't be the final say on any abortion legislation and unless another amendment comes along to overturn it?

Issue one is the only way to protect personal medical decisions.

Ohio voters are making a decision for themselves right now because if issue one does not pass the six week ban, the heartbeat bill will be in place.

And so we will not have access to abortion and that's for rape or incest.

But everyone no one will have access to abortion.

People will have to travel.

And what we saw in the 11 weeks when we had this ban is that most people do not have the ability to travel, even if they're supported through resources or hotels or were able to find them an appointment.

Folks were not able to travel.

So it's incredibly important that Ohioans understand that voting yes is the only way to protect abortion access.

That's the only way to protect our personal medical decisions.

We will have an extreme ban if issue one fails.

Is there room for conversations about what limits should be on abortion and what issue one, Eliminate those conversations entirely, because that's what we're hearing from opponents that in DeWine in particular, that there are there's a need for conversations about this because there are people who are undecided, people who support abortion rights.

Up to a certain point.

Can we still have those conversations and decide limits if issue one passes?

This is the first time that Ohioans have had the ability to speak for themselves around abortion access.

We've had over 31 abortion bans and restrictions that have come through the state government over the last decade.

And the whole time we've been saying that the majority of Ohioans support abortion care.

The majority of Ohioans believe that abortion is a personal medical decision that should be made between women and their family and not the government.

So right now, the government is making that decision and the governor and other politicians have had a decade to have a conversation about what would be reasonable.

We've seen amendments that were rejected when the six week ban was passed that would have made the six week ban.

At least there would have been exceptions.

They rejected that.

So we have to believe the actions that they have done and Ohioans have to make this decision for themselves.

Every vote matters.

Turnout is going to be incredibly important and you want to be a part of this.

Ohioans want to be a part of this decision so everyone should turn out vote yes.

It is the only way to protect our personal medical decisions here in Ohio.

Opponents have been saying that issue one goes too far.

The Toledo Blades editorial board called an overreach, though the Dispatches editorial board supports issue one, there's been no supporter opposition from the Akron Beacon Journal, Cleveland.com and The Plain Dealer or the Dayton Daily News.

So what is your argument to undecided voters and those who oppose abortion rights?

Why it doesn't go too far.

Why they should consider voting for issue one.

Issue one is the only way for Ohioans to make this personal medical decision for themselves.

If issue one fails, we will have a life threatening six week abortion ban that does not have exceptions for rape or incest, and that is before most people know that they're pregnant.

Most people will not be able to travel out of state and you shouldn't have to travel out of state for health care.

This is about what is right for Ohioans and for their families.

And this should not be the government's decision.

This is government overreach in banning abortion.

And this is the time for Ohioans to speak for ourselves and say we want to make our own personal medical decisions.

So vote yes on November 7th or vote early, which you can right now.

When you first proposed this amendment and started gathering signatures, there was not a law proposed that would legalize recreational marijuana, which is now on the ballot as issue two.

Have you factored in how issue two might affect the results for issue one?

Or do you consider these two separate issues?

They are two separate issues.

We see a lot of enthusiasm for Ohioans to get to make their own personal medical decisions, their own personal decision around marijuana on this election.

So it's incredibly important to turnout.

Of course, we're saying vote yes on issue one, but a lot of voters see, you know, voting yes for both as a good decision.

But ultimately, that is up to Ohio voters.

But the only way to protect abortion access is by voting yes on issue one.

And finally, I see a lot of signs yes, on one that are totally different, different designs, different color schemes, different.

There doesn't seem to be one united message, one sign, one campaign for issue one.

Why is that?

Issue one is a very broad coalition of a lot of super enthusiastic and amazing volunteers and supporters who are both using our Ohioans United for Reproductive Rights signs and making their own, which we love.

It's it's been amazing.

We collected over 700,000 signatures to get on the ballot because this is what Ohio voters want.

I've been invited to so many people's homes to be able to meet their neighbors and their friends, to be able to talk about this election.

Everyone is really invested here in Ohio and turnout matters.

So everybody needs to turn out.

But we've seen so much enthusiasm and support and we see that in the yard signs.

I reached out to two legal experts for their interpretation on the effect of issue one on parental consent.

Dan Coble is a professor teaching constitutional law and criminal procedure at Capital University Law School.

I think it's very likely that if it is challenged, Ohio's law would be interpreted worded in much the same way as the U.S. Supreme Court interpreted Ohio's law under Roe versus Wade.

We have to remember that in 1990, the US Supreme Court actually upheld Ohio's parental consent law because essentially it said that it was related to advancing the interests and protecting a pregnant minors.

How?

Well, it talked about the fact that parents could contribute vital knowledge about a minor's medical history and so on.

So it did uphold the law as long as Ohio had an option for a judicial bypass.

In the handful of cases where perhaps there has been parental abuse or the child would be subject to some consequences, that would be quite troublesome to the to the minor.

So the bottom line is it was upheld in 1990 by a U.S. Supreme Court, but that, I would say it's fair to conclude, was more liberal than the Ohio Supreme Court is today.

So if this were to go up there on a challenge, then I think it's likely that the Ohio Supreme Court could well, a rule that the parental consent law is a least restrictive means to advance the individual's health, which is what the amendment requires.

And on that question of a woman's health, I mean, the amendment specifically talks about individual, not woman.

And so a lot of people are concerned about that.

That opens the door for parents to be taken out of the process, because that could be that individual could be a minor and not a woman.

Well, to be honest with you, with a plethora of constitutional rights, rights are granted to people.

For example, Ohio's right to bear arms is given to people.

Children are people.

But we don't give ten year old guns and they are not allowed to buy guns.

So that that argument that the word individual all means that any any child of any age will be able to exercise the same rights as adults.

Simply begs reality.

That does not happen.

The same is true with free speech.

Children do have a right of free speech, but when they go to school, it's much more limited than than what adults have.

Mark Weaver was a deputy attorney general under Republican AG Betty Montgomery, and it's also taught constitutional law.

He's also a crisis communications expert and advises GOP candidates.

It's hard to tell what's in this constitutional amendment because there's a Lake Erie sized loophole when it says it's it allows for an individual's right to make reproductive decisions, including but not limited to abortion.

And by adding those words, but not limited to the drafters are saying there's a whole raft of other rights that we're creating that some judge down the road will tell us what it means, but the voters won't know right now.

And I want to get to that.

But I want to ask you to the analysis also says the parental consent statute would certainly be challenged on the basis that issue one gives abortion rights to any pregnant individual, not just a woman.

Do you think that kind of challenge is likely?

And how would Ohio's laws fare under a challenge like that?

It's important to remember that one of the key forces behind this amendment was the ACLU, and they have challenged parental rights legislation all around the country.

So we know they're motivated to trample on parental rights, particularly on an issues like this.

And so how this will be ruled upon by the courts is hard to say.

But we do know this constitution always prevails over state statutes.

So no matter what the General Assembly passes, if a judge says it's contrary to the state constitution, the statute has to be struck early.

Voting for the November 7th election is going on now through Sunday, November 5th, the weekend before election Day is the only opportunity for Saturday or Sunday in-person early voting.

And a couple of quick notes to end the week.

Republican former Representative Bob Young was found guilty of domestic violence against his wife after a fund raiser in August, but he was acquitted of an assault charge against his brother, the group that wants to change the process of drawing congressional and state legislative district maps through a ballot issue next year will not be gathering signatures at the polls.

Citizens, not politicians, as it notified Attorney General Dave Yost that a date that's specified in the amendment is listed incorrectly on the language on petitions, and they will be submitting new language shortly.

And the Republican backed overhaul of K through 12 education is continuing after a judge dissolved an order one by seven progressive leaning elected state school board members.

They sued to stop the transition to the Ohio Department of Education and Workforce, which will be headed by a Cabinet level appointee of Governor Mike DeWine and would take control of academic policy powers now held by the state board.

DeWine named Jessica Bottini as interim director of the new department.

She had been chief of staff at the Ohio Department of Education.

And that's it for this week for my colleagues at the Statehouse News Bureau of Ohio Public Radio and Television.

Thanks for watching.

Please check out our website at state News talk.

Or find us online by searching the state of Ohio show.

And please join us again next time for the state of Ohio.

Support for the statewide broadcast of the state of Ohio comes from medical mutual providing more than 1.4 million Ohioans peace of mind with a selection of health insurance plans online at med mutual dot com slash Ohio by the law offices of Porter Wright, Morris and Arthur LLP.

Now with eight locations across the country, Porter Wright is a legal partner with a new perspective to the business community more at Porter Wright dot com and from the Ohio Education Association representing 124,000 members who work to inspire their students to think creatively and experience the joy of learning online at OHEA.org.