Support for the statewide broadcast of the state of Ohio comes from Medical mutual providing more than 1.4 million Ohioans peace of mind with a selection of health insurance plans online at med mutual dot com slash Ohio by the law offices of Porter Wright, Morris and Arthur LLP.

Now with eight locations across the country.

Porter Wright is a legal partner with a new perspective to the business community.

Maude Porter Wright dot com and from the Ohio Education Association representing 124,000 members who work to inspire their students to think creatively and experience the joy of learning online at OHEA.org.

New maps are approved unanimously, even by Democrats who said they were unfair.

The Ohio Supreme Court hears arguments that could result in a return to the six week abortion ban and two long time public servants who are retiring at the end of this year dropped by to talk about their experiences.

We'll have all of that and more on this week's state of Ohio.

Welcome to the state of Ohio.

I'm Jo Ingles, sitting in for Karen Kasler.

The Ohio redistricting commission unanimously approved maps this week for new House and Senate districts.

The maps that were voted out of committee will likely give Republicans a 61 to 38 advantage in the House and a 23 to 10 advantage in the Senate.

Democrats said the maps were unfair, yet they voted for them anyway.

But it was a compromise.

Many things came to the middle.

So considering that.

I believe.

That we are in a better we have positioned Ohio.

To have more.

Competitive elections this next cycle, that there will be more competitive districts because of.

What we did and that the people of Ohio.

Will have a better opportunity for representation than they do today.

Some Democrats and government groups say this process shows why Ohioans need to make a constitutional change to the redistricting process.

Ohioans have.

Been facing.

Unfair state House and congressional districts.

For so many decades.

Republicans and Democrats have rigged.

The maps to ensure that they get reelected or that their friends get reelected.

And this is exactly why we need to take.

Politicians and lobbyists out of the equation.

Citizens, not politicians.

Would be a 15.

Member commission of five Republicans, five Democrats.

And five independents or unaffiliated voters, all with one goal to fairly draw districts that treat every voter equally.

Jen Miller and others in a coalition have submitted a petition to Ohio's attorney general to put that change before voters next year.

But the Republican leader of the Ohio Senate says it isn't necessary to change the process.

We have a we have a definition of politician that some people put over there and say that's the worst person in the world.

And then we have another definition of these are the people who step forward to make decisions and on behalf of the public.

So when people say politicians, I say elected officials and people say, well, elected officials shouldn't do that.

Unelected people should do that.

And that is not representative.

Democracy, because the vote for the maps approved this week was unanimous.

They will be in effect for eight years.

The Ohio Supreme Court heard a case this week about court procedures involved in putting Ohio's six week abortion ban on hold last fall.

The hearing was about who had standing and authority in the case that led to the Hamilton County Court temporarily halting the abortion ban, which had taken effect just hours after the US Supreme Court overturned the constitutional right to abortion.

In the Dobbs case last summer.

Ohio Right to Life President Mike DeWine advocates who wants the six week ban reinstated, said it was the most consequential case before the Ohio Supreme Court in decades.

ACLU of Ohio attorney Jesse Hill, who argued for the abortion providers who brought the case, said it leaves access to abortion in Ohio on a razor's edge.

If the Ohio Supreme Court rules for the state, Ohio's ban on abortion after six weeks could be put in effect again, just like it was in the first three months after the nation's high court overturned Roe versus Wade.

There's no timetable for the court to rule on the measure.

But in November, Ohio voters will decide issue one, a constitutional amendment to enshrine abortion rights into the Constitution.

If it's approved, the so-called heartbeat abortion ban would not stand anyway.

Two veterans around the Ohio State House are retiring after more than three decades of serving the state's low income and at risk residents.

Lisa Hamler Fugate has advocated for Ohioans who rely on the state's food banks, most recently at the Ohio Association of Food Banks, where she has served as executive director for more than 20 years.

She's worked with five different governors and 14 general assemblies to create public private partnerships that benefit Ohioans who are at risk of going hungry.

She stepped down from that role at the end of July to serve as director emeritus, and she will be leaving that role when she officially retires at the end of this year.

John Corlett also plans to retire as president and executive director of the Center for Community Solutions at the end of this year.

He worked at that organization for 18 years, and before that he was the former Medicaid director for the state of Ohio and the vice president of government relations and community affairs for the Metro Health System in Cleveland.

He spent 41 years in Ohio's nonprofit and government affairs service.

Both are leaving big shoes to fill.

I asked them about leaving at a time when political headwinds are uncertain.

I have to tell you, Joe, I think it's time for new people, new blood, new energy, and maybe a new way of thinking and acting.

Certainly, we've seen a lot of changes around Capitol Square and it's for those of us that have been around through multiple administrations, for me, it's been five in some 14 different general assemblies.

I really think it's time to step aside and let our young, useful leaders lead our organizations.

John, what about you?

Yeah, I think the same thing.

You know, the other thing is, you know, both Lisa and I, I think, have over those we both worked for the same number of administrations have always sort of partnered really well with whomever is here.

Like, you know, that's that's the thing I think about, like all the Republicans I've worked with over the years.

I mean, I think about people like Bob Nazli, Joan Lawrence, Meryl Kearns, you know, all those people.

We've always worked so well with them.

And I think that's how we what we figured out how to do is how to thread that needle and get stuff done that'll benefit the citizens of Ohio.

You've both had to deal with a lot of challenges through the years.

So let me ask you, John, let you start.

What was your greatest challenge?

You know, I think the greatest challenge was when I was working at MetroHealth.

It was after I had left, stepped down a state Medicaid director, and we came up with this idea to expand Medicaid a year early in Cuyahoga County through a medicaid waiver.

So first, I had to go to the Medicaid agency.

You know, first I had to go to my county government and get them to save to say, okay.

And then I had to go to the state Medicaid director, John McCarthy.

And he said, okay.

And the governor's office said, okay.

And then we had to go to the Obama administration.

They had to say, okay.

And all those things happened.

And the result was that, you know, 38,000 people had health care coverage in Cuyahoga County a year earlier.

And I think we also showed the state that it was possible to expand in a responsible way because we were under budget and, you know, covered more people than we expected.

So I think that was both the biggest challenge I think I faced.

But also for me, it's one of the things I'm proudest of.

Lisa, what about you?

What's your greatest challenge?

You know, making programs work for people, reaching them where they work, live, play and pray, and to be able to take really complicated programs and get relatively inexperienced legislators to understand the role of these programs in how they work.

I'm with John.

The fact that we were able to expand Medicaid in the state, and I think we thought 275,000 people would gain access.

But what we saw is it was so much bigger than that.

And then leading an organization that served not once, but now is in our second term of the state Sleep navigator to the Affordable Care Act, connecting people to a health care home and hopefully on a path to wellness.

My other is being able to work with Ohio farmers, growers and commodity producers and creating and expanding the Ohio Food Program and Agriculture Clearance program that started under the Voinovich administration.

Those two key nutrition programs now provide one out of every four meals that our food banks distribute, and it's just critically important to us being able to do the work that we do.

Right.

I mean, I just you know, I think that was just genius, Lisa, on your part that you sort of brought the farmers of Ohio together with people, mainly segments of our cities and rural areas who needed access to that food.

And nobody had done that before.

And you really thought that up.

Well, thank you, John.

And John has served on our Cleveland Food Bank board for a couple of terms now and has led the leadership.

But, you know, Ohio is an agricultural state.

And to be able to make those linkages and to bring farmers and growers and commodity producers to the state house, to lobby side by side with this, that, you know, it's it's hard for somebody to say, you know, I really don't like your social programs, but I really do like those farmers.

So, yeah, it's a it's a great public private partnership.

But the other thing, Joe, is that we are very fortunate in the state of Ohio to have very dedicated public servants that work within our state agencies.

And I think through my years of being able to, to partner with multiple state agencies, but to really get to know the state employees who come to every day to work and work really hard for the betterment of the citizens of the state of Ohio, and we're blessed for that.

Was there ever a time when either one of you had challenges that you just couldn't see your way through?

You didn't know how you were going to deal with them?

Lisa I'm sure you probably did, right?

Oh, yeah.

And I think leaving now, that's probably continues to be one of my biggest disappointments is that we failed.

Even when we when the state of Ohio had very strong balances, as we do now, that we have failed to enact a refundable state earned income tax credit to make work pay for the one in three Ohio families who work every day but just don't earn enough to be able to meet their basic needs.

And we have tried and seen legislation enacted and a small expansion, I think, under the Kasich administration.

But as I said to him, refundable and he is important.

It's a bag of groceries.

So that I think is is a challenge.

But again, it's about education.

It's continuing to educate our elected leaders to understand that that public policy can really move and bring about tremendous change, including a reduction in poverty.

What about you, John?

I think for me, the the the piece that I've been sort of most worried about over the last several years has been the growth in poverty among older adults in the state.

I mean, child poverty has actually come down since Lisa and I started this work, and that's a good thing.

But poverty among older adults is rising.

And I think, you know, as pensions have disappeared and sort of retirement savings have kind of disappeared.

That's the group that I'm most worried about.

And because we're an older state, too, we tend to be older than other states.

And so I think that's an area where we need probably renewed focus is on older adults and trying to sort of improve their economic security.

So on the flip side, what do you think has been your greatest success, John?

Well, I mentioned, you know, working on the Medicaid expansion.

I think, you know, my greatest success has actually been the ability to work with so many advocates over these past 40 years and watch people sort of grow into amazing leaders to sort of take organizations and tackle issues.

You know, I think about a lot of people that have, you know, worked with who've gone on to make a lot of differences.

You know, for the people of Ohio and across the country, too.

So I think that's for me is sort of bringing that next generation along of advocates and teaching them and coaching them and encouraging them and encouraging people not to get discouraged.

And I think the other thing is also, you know, I think sometimes it's real easy to judge somebody because of the letter after their name.

And I think that is my greatest learning is that you can't do that because, you know, I think I would not have predicted, for example, that Governor Kasich would have expanded Medicaid, but he did it and he became a champion for it.

And I don't think it would have happened without him, without his leadership.

And so, you know, I think we have to sort of, you know, take people at face value and trust their intentions and go from there.

Lisa, what about you?

I'm with John.

I mean, right now I am really worried about the the grain of our state, a lack of comprehensive services that we're seeing that are going to allow the greatest generation to age with a little bit of dignity in their own homes instead of nursing homes.

I think this idea is that there's only a one size fits all approach, maybe being able to take full advantage of federal as well as state opportunities to expand programs.

And I really would like to see a revisiting of term limits.

I think that term limits have been to the detriment of the state of Ohio and that legislators and by the time they've served eight years, they really understand how things work and we end up losing them.

So I long for the days of people like Representative Bob Nazli, who was the cave that was the King of the caveman caucus who served on the Welfare Reform Oversight Committee and went out and really investigated how things were done.

And he did that with Steve, represented by report from Cleveland Heights.

So very, you know, unlikely sort of work mates because their ideologies were separate, but they were both interested in a better program, I think.

And better outcomes for citizens of the state of Ohio.

Yeah, because ultimately that's who is going to lead us into the future.

It is the future workforce.

It's the future leadership.

Yeah.

Is there something that you're leaving unfinished that you wish you could have finished?

Lisa Hmm.

Boy, that's tough.

Maybe a more durable disaster response.

And I think learning and learning on the fly out of COVID that we have to bring the whole of government to respond.

I think we set a real trend in leadership, but we need to build the redundancy.

It's not it's not if but it's when the next disaster comes.

And I want to make sure that we're hardened off and we have those assets.

And certainly that's something that we're focused on.

The changes with climate change, the adaptability that we have to be prepared for.

So I would say that that's one, including the term limits.

And I'd like to see a revisiting of the state minimum wage, which we worked on in 2006 as well.

So ensuring that no Ohioan is left behind.

What about you, John?

You know, the one thing I've been really interested lately, because it's a new opportunity at the federal level, is using Medicaid to improve health care services for people who are leaving correctional facilities.

And there's you know, there's a lot of evidence to suggest that if we do a better job, particularly with people with behavioral health and substance use disorders and getting them health care, we can keep them out of these places in the first place.

And so it's both sort of a crime reduction sort of initiative and a health improvement initiative as well, and really would help address some of the equity issues that I think we face in our state prisons.

But it's a new opportunity and it's sort of like, Oh, I want to work on that, but someone else have to do that.

So, yeah, you're the king of the 1115 ladies, right?

Well, I think you've kind of alluded to this, but both of you have had to work with various governors and lawmakers on different sides of the aisle and maybe some of them you can't even guess what side of the aisle they're on.

How do you how do you balance all that?

How did you do that?

You know, I've always said that, you know, I never want to surprise anybody.

You know, if we're going to be critical of somebody, they're going to know it ahead of time.

We're not they're not going to hear it on this program first or read about it in the newspaper first.

We're going to talk to them first and let them know how we feel and then also see if we have something wrong because we don't always get it right.

And so it's good to know if there's mitigating factors.

I think I have a lot more patience here.

Having served as state Medicaid director, I know how difficult it is to get things done, to actually get things finished in government.

And so I'm much more patient about that and much more open to hearing the explanations of our state employees, the folks who help keep this place running.

What about you, Lisa?

It's about relationships.

It's getting to know them as people, getting to know their families, their interest, always providing an opportunity to to meet, have them come out, meet with our members, the people that are in our food lines.

We all want to be on the winning team and to make it as a win win situation.

I have been so blessed and honored to work with really great leaders and also their staffs who really have a good grasp of the issues and are always willing to roll up their sleeves.

And again, I would say that the COVID response that Governor DeWine did, he was the first governor to deploy the Ohio National Guard that allowed this to continue to feed literally millions of Ohioans as they lost their job through no fault of their own.

And that was because he saw the threat out there and didn't waver.

And that's what leaders do.

They lead.

Do you have any fun, kind of lighthearted, inspiring stories about bipartisanship or about people you've worked with through the years here?

Well, I think it's interesting, Joe, that, you know, when I stepped down as state Medicaid director, I got two letters of thanks, one from Bill Batchelder and the other from Bill Seitz, and not people that I was sort of ideologically matched up with or whatever.

But it really saved them because I was like, well, I might not get these again.

But I you know, I, I just enjoyed working with people down here.

I have a lot of respect for people.

These folks who serve in this legislature and this administration, because no matter their party or their beliefs, you know, they're public servants.

And when I became Medicaid director, I finally understood what public service was.

And I believe in it.

And, you know, it's just that there are a lot of fun to hang out with, too.

So.

Yeah, I think one of my fondest memories, we talked about Bob Metzler, who served for some 40 years.

I think he was on his second or third hip replacement when he took us out in welfare reform and we visited some 20 counties.

But as he was closing up his office, he asked me to come over and handed me the first bill that he had ever introduced around family planning.

Oh, right.

And I'll never forget that, because he said, you know, this is about people being able to make informed decisions for themselves and their families and again, talk about the opposite sides of the spectrum.

But again, that's an example, I think packing hearing rooms around controversial bills and having members really understand that this is the power of the people.

So, again, it's been interesting.

I would certainly say that that, you know, we could have more of that bipartisanship if legislators were able to grow into the positions and get to know one another.

I think we're fortunate that we see them come and we see them go and a lot of times it's just really sad because we lose the the really great ones who understand the programs.

Yeah.

Is there any situation that sticks with you and you think, Man, I wish I would have done that just a little differently.

Something that if you could turn back the hands of time, would you do differently?

Maybe.

I guess I would maybe go back to what I referenced before, Joe, is that, you know, I think, you know, when I was younger and doing this work, I tended to pay more attention to those letters behind people's names and sort of thought, well, I only talk to the Democrats or only talk to the Republicans or whatever.

And it took a while to sort of like kind of shake that.

And I don't feel that way anymore.

And so I think that's probably the one thing I wish, you know, I had maybe when I was started doing this work, maybe had been a little bit more open minded about, you know, other people sort of views because neither side has sort of the the hold on good ideas.

You know, all sides have good ideas.

And so I don't think I was open to that when I started this.

Oh, that's a that's a really good one.

You know, it's it's it's difficult to say if there's any one thing.

I mean, I think a being able to thank somebody who you don't agree with, who has opposed your position or who has tried to advance some really destructive legislation to be able to go back in knowing full well that the fight goes on.

But to have respect, that is the most important thing.

When we lose respect for the institution, the process.

I think with with age comes patience.

I guess you.

Know, the other thing I just thought of Joe, too, is one thing I should have done differently.

Back during the Taft administration, we planned a rally here at the state House around the budget, and I told the people in Cleveland that I will we will pay the Center for Committee Solutions, will pay for any bus that you can fill.

Well, tow busses later and $20,000.

I was like, I will never make that offer again to pay for any bus, all the busses that somebody could fill.

Because I learned from that that when you give that to people, they're going to take it and run with it.

So it was a good thing that all those folks came to Columbus.

Also expensive.

Both say they plan to continue to serve and volunteer roles once they retire.

We here at the statehouse news bureau wish them the very best in their next chapter.

We have a rare sports story in the show this week, The Ohio Village Muffins and Diamonds from the Ohio History Center took on the Capitol.

Cannons made up of legislators in their yearly game of 1860 Baseball.

This week, the game was played on the front lawn of the state house.

And in case you're wondering, it wasn't even close.

The muffins and Diamonds team dominate at 12 to 3.

That's it for this week.

For my colleagues at the Statehouse News Bureau of Ohio Public Radio and Television.

Thanks for watching.

Please check us out on our Web site, State news dot org.

And you can find us online by searching the state of Ohio show.

Please join us again next week for the state of Ohio.

Support for the statewide broadcast of the state of Ohio comes from medical mutual providing more than 1.4 million Ohioans peace of mind with a selection of health insurance plans online at med mutual dot com slash Ohio by the law offices of Porter Wright, Morris and Arthur LLP.

Now with eight locations across the country, Porter Wright is a legal partner with a new perspective to the business community more at Porter Wright dot com and from the Ohio Education Association representing 124,000 members who work to inspire their students to think creatively and experience the joy of learning online at OHEA.org.