From WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm your guest host Scott Brooks.

Our connection this hour on Arts Friday starts with a proposal and the new horror comedy together.

Real life couple Alison Brie and Dave Franco play a pair who are about to get very, very close.

In an opening scene, Brie's character Millie proposes to Franco's Tim during a going away party as the couple prepares to move out of the city and to a small upstate town.

It's a sweet gesture, but turns awkward quickly as Tim takes entirely too long to respond and finally says yes in the least convincing way possible.

The point is clear this couple has been together for years.

They're codependent on each other, and that spark has been gone for a while now.

But like many couples looking to reignite the romance, you just have to fall into a mysterious terror cave in the woods.

That's what happens here.

And later, weird things naturally start happening to the pair.

Strange, gross body horror that has audiences guffawing and squirming naturally together has been marketed by neon, its distributor, as a date movie.

Nothing says romance like having your hair melded with your partner's mouth.

Minor spoiler that does happen in the movie.

Outside a billboard in LA for together, featuring Brie and Franco's lips converging into each other.

Couples have taken to Instagram to post selfies in front of the image, with one person biting the other's lower lip to mimic the giant ad.

It's not just together.

2025 has featured lots of date movies that skipped the typical rom com formula.

Is this the beginning of a new trend?

Just smart marketing or something else entirely?

We will discuss that this hour here on Arts Friday.

I'd like to welcome my guest this hour.

We have Robert Johansen, copywriter and little theater member.

Welcome.

Thank you.

We're also joined by Dave Palmer, a film critic for Quinn Guy, which is, of course, the Greater Western New York Film Critics Association.

We will be saying when you've got this hour.

Welcome.

Thank you.

It's a long tale.

Well, joining us again is Adam Luto, projectionist, programmer at the Little Theater and programing director for anomaly, the Rochester genre film festival.

Welcome back.

Adam.

Always happy to be here.

Talking movies.

And another one of my coworkers is joining us.

We have Roberto Lagares, multimedia reporter for Citi magazine.

Welcome.

Thanks for having me.

And joining us by phone, we have Sarah Anto, rom com expert and teaching staff member at the Focus Theater.

Welcome, Sarah.

Thank you.

Hello, Sarah.

My question is for you.

When are you going to write a rom com?

When are we seeing this era?

Okay.

I mean, let it cook, you know?

I mean, really put you on the spot.

And that's my burning question that people are waiting to have answered.

I actually I'm going to start with you, drummer and Dave.

You're are a couple in the room, not to mention some of the biggest movie fans that I know.

So early in your relationship, were your movies typical, like, date films, or did you go for some of these unconventional picks?

I do think we went, you know, unconventional.

The first movie we bonded over was scream, which coincidentally played at the little last year.

So stuff like that.

Long legs, you know, not very conventional, that type of thing.

The substance.

So, yeah, I think we did kind of go unconventional there with the horror.

But, you know, it keeps things exciting and it really, really wants to get to know the person up front, the substance lore, the stuff that is a litmus test if ever there was one.

Exactly, exactly.

Dave, are you the one directing this ship here with this movie or rumor?

I mean, I, I think we just don't see anything, but like like a rumor said, it's kind of like you get a sense very early on, like, your person's cool.

And if they can hang on, because if you're like, if you think it's too weird, then it's like, it might not.

You're they're not, you know, they might not appreciate the same things you do, but, yeah.

No, I think that, seeing anything but I think being alive in the era of weird movies at all that get mainstream love, I think is cool.

And it's just.

And then, like you said, like, bonding over, like, the classics, like scream, which is like a whole scream marathon after it's out of the little, like, yeah, it was another one.

We saw some horror.

Oh, you said to Nora, you know, that's not that's a that's like, weird.

It's also weird dating, though, when you think about that.

So, Yeah.

So I think just.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I think part of the reason that at least this was my observation, this trend that we're seeing these unconventional date movies, but I also feel we've been seeing fewer romcoms.

So, Sarah, I'm going to start with you.

Do you think you do agree with that?

Have we been seeing fewer traditional romcoms recently?

And based on the, like, large scale distribution side, I feel like in, in, like the streaming space we've been seeing, attempts at reviving what we know as like a classic rom com like, protagonist protagonists meet, have like a little mini conflict that unfolds into just, you know, mostly miscommunication plot.

And then, you got your side characters just being, there to support and watch.

You need to, you know, navigate a relationship and, and ultimately, you know, we kiss, we have we have a great sunset, you know, at the end and everything's good.

I'd say like modern rom coms that I really have loved that have come out in the past ten years, like The Big Sick, set it up.

That was a great streaming example.

Or even like this year with The Wedding Banquet, remakes.

Really, really great.

Examples of taking that classic conventional formula, and not really changing too much.

Apart from, you know, exploring different types of characters, I think that that's something that the genre has desperately needed.

But you're right.

I think that as far as, big movies coming out, the classic rom com it has has definitely dwindled.

It's not coming out as often as it has been in the past, it to build on.

And one thing you were saying, we were talking before the show, that a lot of us have noticed that, rom coms have taken more of a genre aspect.

So, Adam, I go to you is you are a programmer for a genre film festival, and one of my favorite rom coms of recent years was Molly and Max in the future, which is a sci fi rom com.

It's, I think you guys described it.

I latched on to this as when Harry met Sally meets Futurama.

So do you agree that we're seeing more genre elements and rom coms?

Yeah, I think people are trying to find, unique take on, you know, the standard formula.

And I feel like that's kind of a symptom of the fact that, yeah, a lot of the traditional romantic comedies are now seen as kind of streaming fare, which is unfortunate, because I always love a romantic comedy or comedy in general in theaters.

But yeah, I think that people are trying to find something unique and new to do with the genre to make it, you know, to I hate to use the term elevate it because I yeah, I, I'm not a fan of that, but I feel like that's, that's the kind of a mindset of trying to find something new to do with it and to, to make it different in some way.

Okay.

Yeah.

What's your take?

Are you seeing fewer rom coms?

Are you still are you happy with the level that is out there?

I think there's fewer rom coms, but I also think that it's because, modern day has like, removed a lot of, I don't know, problems.

Like, I like pretty much since you couldn't, like, chase someone up to the flight, like, you know, the terminal.

The terminal.

Right.

Like, as soon as you can do that, it's like society.

Kind of like.

Okay, well, but a lot of the plots are ruined or, like, what do we do?

Social media, you know what I mean?

Like, it kind of ruined a lot of that.

And I think because of that, like that's kind of why you like, long for like the nostalgic like, rom com.

So yeah, I think there's a lot less.

And I think that's, I feel like that's probably why they're very, like, genre specific because they have to like, introduce like a different like you can't I don't know, the, the regular ones that are very like real world are very hallmark now.

Because it's like, well, you know, there's a lot of shots of cell phones and like text messages and like, you know, miscommunication.

But other than that, it's like you have to spice it up and sometimes it's worth, you know, a bit of, you know, in the middle of the woods, you know, like that.

And you mentioned the hallmark movies.

That's a genre unto itself.

Like that is a very lucrative business.

But again, those are in movie theaters.

They're just on hallmark.

And, and I worry that they're like sucking the like rom com like genre into it.

I mean, maybe not, but like, it just in the sense that like, you know, big production studios are kind of like, let's throw it up on Netflix for 24 hours and that's, that's it.

But even those type of movies are kind of trying to find a different take on it and almost turning it to genre, because I don't remember if it was actually hallmark, but it was the one with the The Snowman came to life.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, frosty hot frosty Frost here.

Oh boy.

It was a film for sure.

Sure.

I love the collective groans from the phone from this room.

It was unhinged.

But I mean, that's kind of roundabout, but I'm in kind of like Netflix.

Like Lindsay Lohan has these string of holiday hallmark esque movies on Netflix.

And like, I like all of them for what they are.

I mean, none of them.

I think.

Good.

But, that's kind of so to her career that she.

And now she is Freaky Friday.

But for the most part, she's kind of been not in the spotlight.

And so it's such a simple, I think low.

Lohan is so 20s and stodgy, especially for millennials and the whole genre of like, you know, she's amnesia and watch is the ex-boyfriend at the same party.

So it's like all these cliches kind of like you were getting at that, like those can stand the test of time, but versus like, you can't just be like a meet cute in a coffee shop.

Let's meet here at eight on Friday.

And you can text that, you know, you're on your way.

Something came up.

So that's different than it was before.

Dating apps too.

I think, you know you see less meet Cutes in real life.

So to see them in movies it is cool.

But it's also I feel like less realistic.

Like, you know, I know so many people that met and dating apps with their partner.

So yeah, that definitely changed things, I think.

Yeah.

And I feel, a lot of these movies that are kind of following this trend of, untraditional rom coms or untraditional date movies do have takes on modern romance, whether it's materialism, which we'll talk about for a while, or one that I do want to talk about, which played at the little and one of my favorite movies of the year.

It's.

Oh, hi.

Which I classify as a com brahm rather than a rom com, because I thought it had a lot of comedy.

But we're going to do a clip here in one moment.

I'm just going to set this up a little.

So Ojai stars Molly Gordon and Logan Lerman.

It's from writer director Sophie Brooks.

So I'm so excited to see what she does next.

But it's about a young couple.

They're on their first weekend getaway together.

And then they discover that they have different relationship goals.

And then things take a turn toward, misery territory.

And when I say misery territory, I'm talking the 90s movie.

I'm talking Stephen King talking that type of misery.

So this clip is after some things have gone down in the movie, and then Molly and her character's, friends arrive, to this place to discover a predicament.

So let's listen in.

Oh, well.

Hey, sorry to interrupt.

I was just, pretty scary out there alone.

Kenny.

Hi, Iris.

Hi.

Babe, you have to go.

We have some weighty stuff to sort out.

Oh.

Oh, I thought we were chill.

Maybe I can make you a s'more some.

Oh, that sounds so nice, but Iris is, She's cramping.

I'm just cramp.

Lot of cramp.

It's, something that we need to deal with alone, so.

Okay.

Yeah.

Where's the.

We had a fight, and he took an Uber home.

Oh.

No one.

Yeah, really?

I really liked him.

He's really cool.

He was cool.

Yeah, well, hopefully you guys can get back together.

Yeah.

For sure.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well.

You guys have friendship time, and then.

Yeah.

I'm just gonna use the bathroom quick.

Oh.

Yeah.

Oh, my love, I'll miss you too much.

Why don't you just pee outside like all the guys do?

Pee outside.

It's beautiful night.

No, I think I'd rather just go inside the bathroom.

Broken.

Oh, even using the upstairs bathroom.

Okay.

Oh, let's use that.

No, no.

Okay.

What's going on?

Why can't I use the bathroom?

Was there, like, a dead body in there or something?

Haha.

Oh, that is such jokes, Kimmy.

You're insane.

That is a clip from.

Oh, hi.

Once again, a camera.

If you're just joining us this hour, we're talking about untraditional rom coms.

Listeners, if you want to call in and comment on any of this or give us a movie recommendations, you can call at 844295 talk toll free.

If you're in Rochester, our local number is (585) 263-9994.

Sarah, I'm gonna start with you as you gave a great review of.

Oh, hi.

Do you agree with my assessment that this is more this is more comedy than rom?

I think that, yes, it does have an even balance of comedy and romance, but I think that the beginning of the movie, and I won't spoil anything for those who haven't seen it yet, but the top of the movie does a great job of painting, like the escapism that romantic week in a way, with a brand new couple.

They really put you in that headspace so that when that turn happens of something a little unhinged, that that misery, that Kathy Bates esque, energy coming out, it can really, give you that fun surprise, that that the comedy can really come in through really, really strong, so I think in that way, I wouldn't even say that comedy overshadows the romance.

I think it's an even balance for this one.

I.

Okay, yeah.

Dave and Robert, you guys did see this on a date, perhaps.

What what are your thoughts on.

Oh, hi.

Yeah, yeah.

We both really liked it.

I do think it falls like, definitely camera.

I'm, like you said, but I think it's interesting because as we talk about these other movies, it does kind of investigate, like the horrors of modern dating and like without, you know, giving too much away.

There's commitment issues and stuff like that.

And I just feel like it really this it's interesting to see movies reflect these things that we see in real life become problems.

And, you know, as you brought up material is briefly like everything becomes transactional and we do satire in that type of movie.

So I do think it's interesting to see how we are investigating these things that, you know, maybe is a little outrageous in Ohio, but everybody's experience that, you know, commitment issues, the person who, you know, isn't as into it as you are, that type of thing.

But yeah, it is fascinating and yeah, yeah, I forgot how funny that movie is.

It really?

Yes.

I think I love both the leads in that, I think, can I go, is Kenny the boyfriend?

I think he's he was really good.

So he was the one we heard speaking at the beginning of the little stuff in that clip.

It's a good.

It's just like the innocent boyfriend.

But, Yeah, but I think kind of, And you were getting at it, too.

Is that, kind of the romanticization I guess, of, like, everyone wanted that pretty woman story.

Everyone wanted, like, the Runaway Bride.

But let me guess, both Julia Roberts.

But, and I think the romantic romanticizing of dating is kind of a little bit gone out the window like it was in the 80s and 90s.

I feel everyone's kind of so particular now that, you know, I want this person to meet all this criteria, like you said, of materialists.

And then I know that when you saw Ogi, people must have not seen the trailer to know what the big time it was, because it's the first ten minutes, but a half hour.

But, just some people like, you know, gas, some people, like, laughed.

I know that, that we saw it with one of her friends who was visiting, and she, like, cackle.

That one line that Logan Lerman gave just because she's like, oh, I know a guy just like that.

And so, I think, it kind of like Adam was getting a it kind of holds a mirror to reality.

And I think horror has always done that.

Obviously, it's not really a horror film itself, but, I think that it is obviously something.

Well, Molly Gordon, as a millennial, she co-wrote it.

She produced it, I'm sure has gone through with friends.

And so, yeah, I think it's we're, we're seeing more young filmmakers put their own experiences into films.

And as opposed to just sticking by like, the genre boxes to check.

Yeah, it takes a relatable instance, which in this case is a guy who doesn't want to commit, despite leading on his partner.

And then it takes it to an extreme and a very funny.

Yeah, a funny, funny place, a madcap place.

But if you had mentioned something that got me thinking, you mentioned Julia Roberts and I.

You know, I got me thinking.

We in a lot of the classic rom coms or traditional ones or ones of the 80s, 90s, there is that big movie star that is like a rom com icon, is the one of the reasons, perhaps, that we're not seeing as many of these because we don't have that rom com star.

Am I onto something here, Adam?

Or is this this is so we don't really have movie stars in the same way we did.

As you know, that era, the 80s where, you know, you we start.

I guess what I was gonna say would like Tom cruise.

I guess we still have Tom cruise, but there's not like new.

He's not in any romance.

Yeah.

There's no I feel like more modern equivalent of that.

Right.

And movies don't tend to get built around stars the way they did.

You know, the movie star era.

I feel like it's more about the, you know, IP and the property and the movie itself rather than who's in it.

And that's there are pluses and minuses to that.

You know, it's I do miss that kind of movie star style of performances and, you know, where people would look for it to be like, oh, there's a new Julia Roberts movie, there's a new Tom cruise, there's Tom Hanks.

You know, there was an endless list of people, and we don't have that anymore.

And yeah, there are pluses and minuses to that.

I'm of two minds we were talking about.

You're gonna have to remind me the name of the, Glen Powell, anyone but you.

Yes.

So that was a film that was a rom com that came out this year that really to to quit was a Christmas.

So 23.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I think that's okay.

It's just enough they got put on Netflix and so I got a not like a bump, but, I mean, I think that's an example kind of that came out at the beginning of Glen Powell's little spike last year with Twisters and Hitman.

Yeah.

Anyone but you.

And so that kind of is the closest we've gotten.

Obviously, Sydney Sweeney is like, I feel she's not like a movie star, but, you know, everyone knows her name.

That and I took it to Paradise with Clooney and Julia Roberts.

But I think people more go because they long for, you know, just seeing how people in a rom com, not so much like Adam said, like going for a specific person anymore.

And like Adam also said, I think that that can be of two minds because it forces writers to be a little creative to make, to sell the film itself.

But also it's harder a movie to get made and be.

It's like it is fun just to see, like Tom Cruise and Renee Zellweger just in a movie doing something.

Yeah.

Sarah.

So I heard you.

I heard you agreeing here.

Are you looking for, more more stars here for our rom coms?

Do we need a new rom com star?

I, I don't think that we necessarily need a star, but I do think that these trope driven plots, like.

I think that that's the challenge for anybody that writes a rom com, is to take these tropes, which are warm blankets to the audience, are coming in.

We know that if there's, you know, a hotel and there's only one room like, you know, they're on a road trip and it's an old car, we know they're going to break down.

We know that if they're two exes and they have a common friend, that they're going to end up running into each other.

They're going to be those really comfortable plots that we recognize.

And I think being able to take a fresh take and maybe that's kind of why we have the trend that we have right now with these unconventional date movies is that we're we're expanding out from there.

If we do have a star, let it be a star.

That's not going to take us out of the movie.

I think Glen Powell had a great year last year.

And I do have my own opinions about anyone but you, but he did do what a rom com hero does.

It just come in as, you know, kind of like the personality hire and go in and just be charming and just McConaughey top to bottom and then leave?

I think that he does it pretty successfully.

I think that a start where it starts to be there, it has to be somebody that people feel comfortable with.

People, want to see move up, maybe like a middle grade star or not.

Full A-list, somebody on the rise, somebody that's wanting to break into, you know, more, intense roles, more highly publicized roles, things like that.

And you mentioned Clyde Powell, like hitman.

I think what actually kind of works for our conversation as an unconventional date movie, where Glen Powell is pretending to be a hitman, and that he ends up meeting, what's her what's the actress's name?

Can you remind me of Adriana Arjona?

Yeah.

Yes.

And it's a it was like at the tip of my tongue, at that is is a movie called hitman.

You wouldn't think of as, like, a date movie, but that is actually that works a lot in romance.

And it kind of gets a little darker at the end.

Adam, I remember you saw that at Tiff and were raving about it.

Really got me hooked on it before it played you.

Do you agree with that with The Hitman?

Yeah, absolutely.

But I also feel like that kind of proves the whole streaming Netflix of it all, and that I saw that at Tiff, the Toronto International Film Festival, and watched it with a enthusiastic audience.

And it was so much fun.

I was like, this is going to be huge.

Like, this is so charming and so fun.

And then it got picked up by Netflix and it just it got like a tiny release, and then they dropped it on streaming.

And then I feel like the conversation about that movie was like a hot second.

And then went away completely, which is such a bummer because it was.

I can't describe, like the feeling in that theater was just so fun and energizing, and people laughed like, being like, yeah, this is going to be the biggest thing of the year.

For several years.

And then it just didn't happen, which was so disappointing.

And I'll just hop on that.

Two things.

One, like, I know I saw the people that I follow and same thing.

But after they saw hitman in 2022, right, 23, they saw it the year before it came out at Tiff.

And same thing here.

They all loved it and they were like, this gonna be my top ten.

Oops.

I got a bump into next year's top ten.

But they said it plays great and, audience.

And then it goes to there.

It did play out a little and we saw it a little.

It was actually, ironically, the first time Rob and I like crossed paths.

We didn't say hi, but like, we clocked each other.

So that's like a fun little with someone undercover.

And you're speeding.

It's, Yeah, it's like that.

But, I think just to go with the streaming of it all, like, I think Amazon randomly has a couple I just jotted down.

I want you back.

Upgrade.

Idea of you.

It's like these are all pretty basic.

Like each one of them you have like, the I want my ex back.

You have the like the meet cute misunderstanding you have like the mismatched couple and those all kind of have names attached, one way or another.

And so I think the it's not gone away, it's just gone to streaming, which is like unfortunate because the only way you can really stay relevant is if it's a meme, like Anne Hathaway is the meme and idea of you, of like screaming and shouting the computer, and that still gets tossed around.

And so I think we need to just put them in theaters and let audiences play with it, because I, hitman, played so well in a theater, like Adam said.

And then it just you watch alone, you're like, yeah, I mean, that sounds cool, I guess.

And I agree.

And for our listeners who don't know, I also work at the Little Theater.

So obviously I'm a big proponent of the communal experience.

Like I think watching a film in a theater, you just you can't beat that because you just have different reactions when people are just hooting and hollering and guffawing and cackling at different points of the movie.

Like, I think that always adds to the enjoyment.

Perto, I'm gonna go to you when you are looking for a date movie to watch with your wife, what do you what do you look for?

Is it the big star?

Is it the premise or is it, is it something else?

I think where we are usually drawn, we go through stages of, like, being drawn by certain actors.

And I think we just realized that recently where it's like, we'll watch a movie and it maybe has Leonardo DiCaprio in it, and then we're like, kind of want to watch more Leo?

Or, you know, I kind of want to watch another like, Brad Pitt film or whatever.

We kind of let that, like, guide us.

If I could always choose, it would probably always be like a horror film.

Something like I'm the exact opposite.

I don't like horror films.

When we went to see together at the little, I was like, hey, we should go see that, because I was interested in it.

And she was very much like, you want to see that?

I'm like, I do.

I feel like, you know, that's that's something I. I'll give it a shot.

I also love Dave Franco.

So like, he'll he'll get me to watch anything.

But yeah, we that's kind of like the vibe we go off of is usually like the big stars to kind of guide our decision.

And then also like, if it's really heavy genre night where you all we're kind of battling that out and usually it's whatever, you know, horror movies you can convince me to watch.

How often did she come to you to see these, like, horror movies?

Body horror, any type.

And do you have like a limit of like, I'm not going to watch saw or I'm sorry, that's the thing.

It's I don't know what it is.

It's like, sometimes it depends on how gross it is.

Like, I won't watch substance.

And I, I mean, I, I don't have any, like, necessarily spoilers of it other than a few memes, I guess, but like enough where I was like, yeah, I'm not going to watch the substance of horror comedy, though.

I almost feel like I think I think it's very funny.

It's so unhinged and that thing, and that's where I'm like, I've had these like, talks with people where I'm like, I mean, I give it a shot, but I'm just like, it's just not for me.

Like I even though I know she'll I mean, that's like we have we also have our own lists of like, it's okay to watch these by yourself.

You know, like you can watch this by yourself.

Like for me it was like lighthouse or something.

And she's like, I don't wanna watch that.

That's that seems boring.

And I'm like, okay.

And then she's got like, you know, substances on her list.

And so it's kind of navigating that and then like, it makes those movies that we end up like landing on like that much more, you know, date night.

And I feel like sometimes arguably the most, like, obscure things can be a date night movie.

It doesn't necessarily have to have, like, that premise.

Like, I'm a big proponent that any Nicolas Cage movie is a date night.

Oh, I love that.

You see, server side.

I cut you off, sir.

I don't think that.

Oh, you want this year.

I like that a lot.

That's like a you like it or you very much hate it movie.

But I like it.

It's like.

Yeah.

Like his whole premise is, is exactly that.

It's like, either love him or you hate him.

Yeah.

I'm thinking of the 90s Dick cage movies and Face Off as a dick movie, like swapping Faces.

What's more, what's more, what's more romantic than that?

Exactly.

In a way, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, kind of intimate.

Yeah.

Right.

Absolutely.

I, I'm thinking maybe it's a good time to take a break.

So we're gonna take a break.

If you're just tuning in.

We are talking about untraditional romance movies.

I'm joined by Robert Johansen, a little theater member, Dave Palmer, with Netflix film critic Adam Lubitz with a little an anomaly Rochester Genre Film Festival Robert Licorice of City Magazine and Sara and how a rom com expert.

We all have more connections right after this break.

I'm Evan Dawson, coming up in our second hour.

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How their lives have changed since their wedding or haven't changed.

Well, we talked to the first same sex married couple from Rochester.

They sat down with us to talk about their lives and what has changed all these years later.

And we'll bring back that recent conversation next hour.

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We are talking about untraditional date movies.

If you are listening and you want to give us your suggestions, you can call in toll free at 844295 talk.

Or if you're here in Rochester, our local number is (585) 263-9994.

So one thing that we had been talking about during the break, and I think and I mentioned in my intro, a big part of this is the marketing.

Like I was talking about together a lot, set it up in the intro.

And a lot of that is I think our perception of this movie as a date movie comes from neon, the distributor marketing that way, and all the posters, they had a huge quote that said the Perfect Date movie.

I had mentioned the billboard that, you know, went viral of people kissing out in front of it, which is great marketing for that movie.

We had a poster outside the little I wanted people to do that, but they did not do that.

Looking at the couples in the room for not doing that.

But, Robert, do you want to do you want to talk a little bit about this like how much of this trend do you think is from this unique or creative marketing?

Yeah.

I think marketing has a lot to do with it.

Especially in the social media days.

You know, people that's how people hear about your movies.

I don't think we've mentioned eyes yet, but that was another one that came out this year where, you know, was the Heart eyes killer.

On Valentine's Day, he goes around slashing couples.

So some of their marketing for that.

I remember they sent out little valentines, little Valentine cards, and it was like, stay single, stay safe, you know?

So, like, playing to the singles they're or no couple is safe and that's playing to the couples there.

And also material has had some great marketing where they, actually started a website and it was like basically like the New York Stock Exchange and men could submit themselves or I think people could submit other people as well.

But it was basically like height, age.

There was a salary question.

I think there was something that was it was a category for hair and it was just yes or no.

Do you have hair, yes or no?

And then all these factors would play into something where you got ranked based on like the ability, are you worth investing in so that just that's very creative.

And that also just speaks to the whole like everything becomes transactional.

You know, that was a whole thing about materials.

But I just feel like these unique marketing tactics that movies are doing really do get people out to see them.

Yeah.

So we're going to get to a materials clip in a moment, but I do want to dive in a little more on that marketing.

Sarah, is there anything of the in the marketing that really will sell you on any of this?

Okay.

I got to tell you, I mean, they take really great leads with that movie and casted they were oh.

And we were able talents, but putting them all three and marketing together and just having them just create this charisma vacuum, really push me to go because, I knew I was going to go see it anyway, but to see all of them together, I'm like, okay, if they do this thing together, it's going to be really crackling and great.

I, I think they did a great job of showing us that it's going to be, you know, about the transactional side of dating, but it's also going to be fun to some degree.

I think that there might be some cute and like, fun tension moments.

It definitely was interesting coming out of the theater and having that full experience of what the story was going to be, the overall.

Yeah, seeing the stars together, the marketing was really, really smart.

Yeah.

So diving a little bit more on materials.

So that was from, Celine song, who of course did Past Lives in 2023, which is my favorite movie that year.

Devastating and all.

The best way is like, if it makes you cry a lot, but I think it's a cathartic cry.

Stars Dakota Johnson, Chris Evans, Pedro Pascal, who is in a lot of movies this year, which we'd love to see.

But I thought I found this movie to be very pessimistic and bleak.

And so we're going to get to our clip here in a second with you.

It kind of it's I believe it from the trailer, but it kind of gives you, a little taste of, of their view on modern dating.

So let's take a listen.

Hey, are you single?

I'm a matchmaker.

Give me a call if you want to meet somebody I deserve.

Someone who fulfills all of my criteria.

Nothing over 20 BMI.

I don't want someone who likes cats.

I'm trying to settle.

I promise you're going to marry the love of your life.

This case.

Sweet, sweet boys.

How many marriages are you responsible for now?

Lucy?

Hey, nine.

Guys.

If the girl asks for a tall drink of water, the boy with a salary over 500 grand.

Always.

Mr..

Right.

You deliver.

So that was a clip from materialist.

The trailer.

So that was Dakota Johnson as a matchmaker.

And, like, as you could tell from the trailer, like a lot of these scenes with the matchmaking, it's a lot of, like, shallowness and people like, just looking at the stats and it's is very cynical, which I, you know, is like my this movie was marketed as a rom com as well, and it has all these beautiful looking stars.

But watching it, I didn't know if that quite fits.

So, Berto, I'm gonna go with you.

This question.

Do you ever have disappointment if that marketing makes you think like, oh, this is a great date movie, and then you go watch something like materialists or another movie and it doesn't fit that expectation.

Does that change your overall view of the film?

Yeah, I would say so because, I mean, I, I try not to like let you know my letter box, influence any, any, you know, views too much.

You know, I want to go in completely blind, but I mean, you can't ignore the marketing because, like, how else did you learn about the movie?

But, yeah, I think if it's misleading or if doesn't hit the mark for me with what they promise and how I would interpret it, I'm kind of like, like even if it was like a good movie, I'm kind of like, this is very disappointing.

I don't know if I'd like, recommend it.

I don't know if I really like it.

Because it's like, yeah, it was good, but you marketed to me as like, there's a romance, you know, romance, whatever.

You know, good date night movie.

And it was like, let's just say it was just a good movie or was bad, I mean, or it's bad.

Or if, like, they throw in those stars I don't like when they're not in it very much like, don't show me Paige or Peskov.

He's not really in the movie.

You know, he has the funniest line in that movie, though, which I won't say because that would be a spoiler.

He does have the funniest line in materials.

Adam Q agree with this.

Like if you if you're expecting one thing and maybe that's because of the marketing, does that ever change your overall view of this film?

Yeah.

I feel like you can't help but be swayed by it.

Yeah, if you have if the distributor or a studio goes to a trouble of like creating a picture in your mind of what the movie is going to be, there's always that danger of, if it doesn't turn out to be exactly what you had imagined of the film you were going to get.

That's that I haven't seen materialists.

I really want to, but I did hear from a lot of people who felt kind of burned is the right word, but we're expecting one thing from that movie based on the marketing, and it was not what they got.

And I feel like that in a lot of ways hurt that movie a little bit, even if, you know, I heard a lot of positive things, but it's still had that sense of, that wasn't exactly what the movie I went to the theater to see wasn't what I got.

And that can't help, I feel like kind of leave a a bad taste in your mouth for people.

So if you did see material, as did you, did you have that feeling from this movie?

Did it?

Did it was it something different from what you expected?

Yeah.

So like, but Berto Adams added, it was absolutely marketed and like they verbatim said, like romcoms are back, like A24, like Twitter that with the trailer and everything.

And they had they up.

You heard they had the, you know, I think 90s song.

And so it was very clearly and they shipped it like a rom com, and then it's almost like an anti rom com, which I think I appreciate when those come out.

But it's very pessimistic and in a way that kind of almost works.

It doesn't work for the film because like definitely if you're going expecting like an LOL type rom com and then it's like just like people being transactional, like I'm sad about dating, because I got like a B CinemaScore and I feel like something like that should be like audiences should really like and embrace those films.

And so it very quickly on, like, I think it's clear in materialist that it's not going to be a rom com, that it's like going to be like a romantic drama that has some comedy elements.

So I was able to kind of pivot my mindset early enough.

But there's definitely those cases where like, yeah, you go in expecting like an lol throwback ROM com, and it's like talking about how women just want like money and tall guys and men are shallow about age and like, you know, what, like, just looks, then I think that could hurt a film.

That being said, our audience was mostly, I think, a lot of, like, middle aged women, like friend groups.

And they were dying like, they there was one line where a guy who's like, I think he's like 36, and he's like, I don't want anyone like over like 27.

And like, they all, like, howled, like laughing at him.

And the absurdity of that statement because like most of them are out of the dating pool now where they don't know what some guys expect to get.

I like how you can quote CinemaScore.

Oh, that's like I could probably pull a random one, but yeah.

No.

So I think, I think it's like it's hard to get a B-minus cinema score for that type of movie.

So like, but then you saw something like weapons, where weapons gets an A-minus, and that's really rare for horror and weapons was, I don't think, really what I think everyone who's seen weapons and even likes it, it wasn't what they thought.

It's much like no one was expecting this Magnolia type film.

And so sometimes, it can subvert expectations like 28 years later is one that we both said absolutely surprised.

Everything in that movie is not what I expected.

And yet every decision they made, I loved.

And so sometimes you do have to mislead a film to either save spoilers or because you're like, I know you're going to like this, but I don't trust you.

Come into your own, you know?

And so that's going to hold your hand into the theater and then be like, you know, trust that an audience can like it, and reverse the use of materials as well.

And I believe Selene Song did work as a matchmaker, too, so I don't know how much that influenced the movie, but where did you feel, that you were misled by this movie, or was it pretty much kind of what you were expecting?

I do feel, yeah.

I mean, knowing her first movie, Past Lives, it was definitely not very upbeat rom com, so I think I kind of knew not to expect that.

But the marketing definitely was, you know, billing it as a rom com.

And basically what everyone else that I do think that can work against you, but I also think from a studio's perspective, it's like if they got you into the theater, they got your money, they got the ticket, you saw it whether you liked it or not.

Like they, you know, they got your money.

So that's one side of it.

But the other side is if you're subverting expectations too much and people don't like it, and they're going all over social media and talking about it, that can hurt you too.

So I do feel like it's a it's a double edged sword for sure.

Now, we've been talking a lot this hour about how.

Oh, sorry, Sarah, are you going to say something?

Just one more thing.

I this is kind of you guys were talking about it, and I do kind of felt that bait and switch a little bit as I was in the I mean, I did get to see one of the posts from A24 that showed, like all of the reference movies that Celine Song had when she was writing the film and Remains of the day.

It was like in the top five, and I'm like, okay, this is what the tone is going to be after all, after seeing all the really frilly romcoms back marketing.

But when I walked out of that movie and I felt like, okay, they got my money, I feel kind of tricked.

It did make me think that maybe the marketing was trying to go for some kind of meta approach, and just missed the mark.

Like they subverted expectations a little too much.

Kind of like how we go into a date to an app, and it's really transactional.

And we feel super giddy the first time.

Like, like this one's going to be it.

This is going to be so fun.

I really got ideas about how this person might be based on, like, the really surface information I have, and then you kind of walk out of it, not quite where you started it.

And I, I'm wondering if maybe that's what the marketing was trying to do in a really smart way, but might not have, hit the mark the way they wanted.

That would be brilliant marketing.

I was going to say that's an incredible observation.

If that's what they were going for.

If they were going for that, then could that.

I like that movie a lot more.

So.

And it's a risky strategy.

Risky.

But we appreciate boldness.

So we've been talking a lot this hour about how this is a new trend, but I do think there are other movies that fit that untraditional date movie.

And so our caller on line one here, who I believe is another gift, member Jordan from Buffalo has, a 1999 movie as his, a, untraditional date night movie.

So we will listen in here.

Jordan, can you hear us?

Hey, good to hear from you, Scott.

Yeah, thanks for calling in.

Oh.

Happy to.

I'm on my lunch break, so it worked out perfect.

We love that.

Yes.

You want to tell us about your your film?

That is an untraditional date movie?

Yeah.

And actually, I was lucky enough to, see it, just a few weeks ago at, the, Dryden Theater in Rochester with, some of my fellow critics, that, on call with you guys I know as well.

It's Stanley Kubrick's Eyes Wide Shut from 1999.

It was his last film ever made, a very, unconventional, psychosexual drama slash erotic thriller starring Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman.

Real life married couple that at the time, it was the, late master swan song.

It came out to very polarizing reviews, but nowadays it's widely considered one of his best films.

It's, very powerful examination of, marriage and fidelity and dreams and sexual jealousy.

All set.

And, this kind of, it's a real, like, nocturnal, dreamscape of New York City, at the turn of the century and, and as, as dark and, as much of a downer as it can be at times because, of course, it's a Stanley Kubrick film.

There's going to be death to there's going to be, a lot of, heaviness.

It is a weirdly upbeat, romantic film, too.

I was able to see it with my wife, who joined, me for the screening, and we both loved it, and, I, I can't recommend it enough.

And I'm sure that Adam and Dave and Roma, who saw it as well.

We'll have nothing but good things to say about it as well.

So I just wanted to call in and say that.

Well, thank you so much for calling it.

I wish you could see some of the faces when you were talking about how a romantic movie it is, but I love that because that's exactly what we're talking about.

This like a movie that you don't think of as a romantic movie, and it somehow hits the mark so that the it ends on a relatively sunny note, considering the Kubrick canon that preceded it.

It is, clear eyed, but ultimately, I think, hopeful look at marriage and just about the importance of taking things day by day and always being open and honest with your partner.

Maybe not too honest, but being honest enough about the things that really matter and, you know, just being a good husband.

So, I love the movie.

I know Stanley loved it.

He considered it, his finest contribution to the art of cinema.

And I know his, wife Christiane, loves it very much as well, so.

And she painted a picture of the cat in that movie right on the wall.

I think you told me that she she painted all the pictures.

You see all the pictures you see in the movie.

Yeah.

All the ones that are in the, the apartment that Tom cruise and Nicole Kidman.

Yeah, she did the, the nude photo and, Victor Ziegler's bathroom, where, the woman ODS.

Yeah, she she she she it's low key.

Just a love letter to Christiane from Stanley, I love that.

Well, thank you so much for calling in.

Stay on the line so you could listen in, but thanks for calling.

Awesome.

Thank you.

So, yeah, I do, is something we are running out of time, but I did want to talk about movies that fit this mold that are not recent.

Something like 99 Eyes Wide Shot.

So from here, I'm going to start with you.

I'm gonna put you on the spot.

Do you agree with Eyes Wide Shut fitting this mold?

And do you have another movie that that fits this in terms of Eyes Wide Shut?

Yeah.

Why not?

You know, y'all, we're all here to have a good time.

Things can get trippy and weird, but why not?

I was thinking earlier.

Strange, darling, I think that was 20, 23.

It's kind of recent, but not, villains to that had, Bill Skarsgard and Maika Monroe.

I think late 20 tens, more just I think those are more in the horror genre.

But again, it features couples and it features I'm, you know, either being tormented together or doing doing something that's not traditional, but it really just does spice it up and like, keep you interested.

So yeah, those are two I can think of.

I think it's interesting with eyes wide shucks and tying it together with together.

Oh, obviously Franco and Alison Brie are married in real life.

And they, you know, worked on this project together.

And then Eyes Wide Shut, Stanley Kubrick kept Kidman and Cruise and separate, hotels when they were filming because he wanted to create like that a little bit sense of like a partner's and like, because they were married in real life, obviously he wanted them to have some coldness between them.

I love how pathetic Tom cruise is in as much, but, Yeah, I mean, I think I think, obviously we've always had the marriage aspect of suicide, and I think it's changing.

It's always being flowing.

It's like, what a side to think of marriage.

Like how, you know, how much of a establishment do people give it versus like the casual dating is, you know, it's that's a film to talk about when it comes to relationships, for sure.

It's something.

Sarah, I'm gonna put you on the spot.

Do you have a movie that maybe it's not recent.

That kind of fits what we're talking about?

I mean, the first thing that comes to mind, like Gordon, the real girl, is that.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like an unconventional date movie rom com that does definitely explore that fringe.

I really enjoyed that one for sure.

Yeah.

So for context, Lars and the Real Girl, if you don't know, it stars Ryan Gosling and he is dating a mannequin throughout that movie.

So it is it is very much untraditional, I think, to offer just her has become a documentary at this point and it's insane, like all the AI couples, which is why Queen Phoenix I in that movie.

Yeah, he ends up falling for AI on the phone, which is voiced by Scarlett Johansson.

It's like Jones is vindicated.

Yeah.

Burger, what do you do?

You have one that fits this this trend.

First one that comes to mind is, vanilla Sky.

Oh, okay.

I feel like, in the sense that it, I feel like it captures like the consequential side of relationships and like making, you know, one decision can like change everything.

And I think that just like, really like, I don't know, drives at home and there's also like the vanity aspect of the film and all that.

So I feel like it has a lot of layers.

You know, I, I watched it for the first time, I think this year, I, I lucked out on that a lot, where it's like, I have no spoilers for like, really big movies, that everyone seems to have watched.

But yeah, I feel like that just kind of like, fits this, like, unconventional mold.

And maybe it doesn't always end.

I don't know, like, how you're how you.

I didn't know where that movie was going and like, the entire time.

So I love revisiting a movie that most people watch and that you get so excited about it and want to talk to people.

Like, I get it now.

Yeah, it's such a good feeling.

Adam, do you have any throwback ones for us?

I mean, it's not a huge throwback, but there's one that I've definitely talked with you about that my partner and I think it's one of the most romantic movies there's either in the Sky, which is Phantom Thread.

Movie.

Yeah.

Paul Thomas Anderson, set in the world of 1950s fashion about a fashion designer, and the, the muse, and their relationship and the push and pull and the power dynamics between them.

And it goes some places that you might not expect for a romance.

There may be some poisoning involved, but I feel like at the heart of, like, this entire conversation of, you know, nontraditional romances, relationships are are weird, and everybody's relationship is weird in their own unique, different way.

And so there is lots of fertile ground there.

And what you find romantic is not the same as the next person.

But yeah, Phantom Thread is, to us, deeply romantic film.

There was one time where Matt, your partner, was sick, and I was like, Adam, did you Phantom thread?

Which if you know, you know, we won't spoil it anymore.

But, well, actually, I'm gonna stay with you, Adam.

So we're talking about throwback wides, but let's look ahead a little.

I think what we've been talking about this trend, and we're continuing to see it.

I think we'll see it with more films.

Is there anything coming up?

Perhaps at the little theater that that fits this trend?

It doesn't have to be a little bit.

Anything that you could think of, that kind of fits this one.

I know the first one I think of that, I don't know, kind of it fits.

I feel like it's more, again, more com than rom.

There's the roses coming up, which is a remake of, The War of the roses, about a bitter divorce, between a married couple this, time played by, Olivia Colman and Benedict Cumberbatch.

I don't know how much romance there will be.

At least there will be at the beginning.

I'm positive of that.

But it's going to go some weird and dark places.

We're talking about marketing.

I got a TikTok the other day that was just clips of Andy Samberg from that movie that's like, oh, I'm so confused.

And I was like, oh, it's that one.

I'm like, they got their car.

So we're running low on time.

So I'm gonna go to each of you and you're going to give me a movie recommendation of it could be this trend or it could be whatever you think of.

So, Sarah, I'll, go with you next.

Is there any movie that you want to recommend to people that fit this trend?

Oh, I mean, I just saw Ojai last week, and I if the minute it comes to streaming or is available to, everyone in theaters and a wider release, please go see it or watch it at home.

It is a really, really fun time.

All right.

I see some people looking up their movies, so I will I'll tell you, man, because I talk about I like the genre mash ups of Molly and Max in the future.

But speaking of Andy Samberg, Palm Springs time loop rom com like, absolutely.

My job, my jam.

And it's romantic.

Do I think it works is both comedy and it works is both the com and the ROM, even though that could be a custom ROM as well.

Rom or do you have one for us?

Yeah, I was going to say Amalia.

Max.

Definitely essential.

Also Lisa Frankenstein.

Definitely.

It's a kind of recent, but it's worth expectations.

She's kind of dating a decomposed.

I won't give too much away, but at least a Frankenstein.

It's a good one.

All right.

10s saved.

You have on, the Heartbreak Gallery.

I think it's called, it's like 2020.

It was one of the first Covid movies back, ran.

We watched that a couple times.

I think it's just it's a fun antique rom com for the five second, together.

Just go watch it, I love it.

Thank you so much for listening at this hour.

Thank you to my guest, Robert Johansen, Dave Palmer, Adam Liberto, Roberto Lagares, Sarah Anton.

So stay tuned for more connections next.

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