>> Renee: GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO "KENTUCKY TONIGHT."

I'M RENEE SHAW.

THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

OUR TYPO TONIGHT: KENTUCKY'S URBAN-RURAL DIVIDE, WHICH IS MORE THAN JUST A POLITICAL FAULT LINE.

THERE ARE ECONOMIC AND DEMOGRAPHIC DIFFERENCES BETWEEN KENTUCKY'S CITIES AND ITS RURAL AREAS, BUT IS THIS BIFURCATED NARRATIVE OF TWO KENTUCKYs OR TWO AMERICAS ACCURATE?

WHAT IMPACT ARE THESE DIVIDES HAVING?

AND WHAT CAN BE DONE TO BRIDGE THE GAPS?

TO YOU DISCUSS ALL OF THIS WE'RE JOINED IN OUR LEXINGTON STUDIO BY DEE DAVIESS, FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT OF THE CENTER FOR RURAL STRATEGIES?

WHITESBURG.

ALISONY DAVIS, PROVERBS of AGRICULTURAL ECONOMICS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY.

AND THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT INITIATIVECH Kentuc AL CROSS, DIRECTOR OF THE INSTITUTE FOR RURAL JOURNALISM.

AND DR. MATTHEW RUTHER, DIRECTO OF THE KENTUCKY STATE DATA CENTER AND DIRECTOR OF THE URBA STUDIES INSTITUTE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF Louisville WE WANT YOU TO JOIN THE CONVERSATION WITH A QUESTION OR COMMENT on TWITTER @KYTONIGHTKE SEND AN EMAIL TO KYTONIGHT@KET.

OR USE THE WEB FORM AT KET.ORG/ MAKE SURE TO CHECK THE BOX THAT SAYS YOU'RE NOT A ROBOT.

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WELCOME ON ALL OF OUR GUESTS, ALL IN UNLOCATION, WHICH IS NEWS 5 WE APPRECIATE YOU TALKING ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

FROM RUTHER, I'M GOING THE COME RIGHT TO YOU AND FIRST OF ALL ASK YOU JUST TO GIVE US SOME DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION ABOUT WHERE KENTUCKIANS ARE LIVING.

ARE URBAN AREAS CONTINUING TO GROW WHILE RURAL AREAS IN KENTUCKY SHRINK?

WHAT'S THE PICTURE?

>> SO I MEAN, THE FIRST THING IS DEFINING WHAT WE MEAN BY URBAN AND RURAL.

>> SURE.

>> AND THERE'S NO UNIVERSAL WAIVE DOING THIS.

SO WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT METROPOLITAN, NON-METROPOLITAN SO I'M GOING TO USE THIS DISTINCTION.

IN GENERAL, KENTUCKY'S URBAN AREAS ARE GROWING.

ITS SMALL CITIES ARE GROWING.

BUT ITS VERY RURAL COUNTIES ARE NOT GROWING.

AND THERE'S A NUMBER OF REASONS FOR THIS.

THEY HAVE VERY HIGH DEATH RATES.

THEY HAVE -- FERTILITY IS NORMAL BUT MOST OF IT IS OUT-MIGRATION SO PEOPLE ARE MOVING OUT TO OTHER PLACES.

IN FACT, PEOPLE ARE NOT MOVING FROM THESE SMALLER CITIES NECESSARILY TO THE LARGER CITIES.

THEY'RE MOVING TO OTHER CITIES OF REGIONAL IMPORTANCE.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, FROM HAZARD TO PIKEVILLE OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> I WAS GOING TO CONTINUE.

SO DEMOGRAPHICALLY SPEAKING, THE RURAL -- THE EASTERN, SOUTHEASTERN PART OF THE STATE IS OLDER THAN SORT OF THE NORTHERN LOUISVILLE, CINCINNATI, LEXINGTON TRIANGLE, AND THE WESTERN PART OF THE STATE IS ALSO MUCH OLDER.

POVERTY RATES ARE OBVIOUSLY HIGHER IN THE RURAL AREAS.

MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD INCOMES ARE LOWER.

AND EDUCATIONAL ATTAINMENT IS -- THERE'S BEEN A DISPARITY AS EDUCATION INCREASES AMONG EVERYONE, IT'S INCREASING MORE IN THE URBAN AREAS THAN IN THE RURAL AREAS.

>> SO AT THE BEGINNING YOU MENTIONED CALLING AT THIS TIME URBAN-RURAL DIVIDE, SO DO YOU CONTEST THAT NOMENCLATURE?

DO YOU PREFER A DIFFERENT LEXICON?

>> I DON'T CONTEST IT.

IT'S JUST, DEFINITIONALLY IT'S CHALLENGING TO COME UP WITH DATA BECAUSE WE'RE NOT -- FOR EXAMPLE, OLD HAM COUNTY IS A SUBURB OF LOUISVILLE.

IT'S VERY RURAL.

I MEAN, IF YOU GO WALK AROUND, IT'S FARM TOWN, BUT WE WERE NEVER REALLY CONSIDER THAT NEUTRAL CONTEXT OF WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING HERE.

>> I SEE.

SO DR. DAVIS, NO ROLLERS IS THERE RELATION TO?

>> NOT THAT WE KNOW OF.

>> COUSINS.

>> 23ANDME.

TRY THAT OUT, RIGHT?

SO YOU AGREE WITH DR. RUTHER ASSESSMENT?

>> I DO.

WE WORK ON LOTS OF DIFFERENT PROJECTS AND WE HAVE TO HAVE SEPARATE UDDERLY EVER FORWARDS BASED ON WHO WE'RE WORKING WITH ABOUT HOW WEEING DEFINE URBAN, RURAL AND METRO AND SUBURBAN, FRONTIER, WILDERNESS AND IT GOES ON AND ON, AND THERE'S A CONSTANT DEBATE ABOUT WHAT IS RURAL, AND AS OUR BIG CITIES CONTINUE TO GROW OUT, THEY'RE SUBSUMING THE RURAL AREAS THAT ARE TURNING INTO URBAN AREAS, SO IT LOOKS LIKE A LOT OF RURAL IS DISAPPEARING WHEN, IN FACT, SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE AREN'T MOVING.

ATLANTA IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THAT WHERE IT WAS A RURAL AREA, ATLANTA CONTINUED TO PUSH OUT, AND NOW IT'S SUDDENLY AN URBAN AREA, BUT IT IS A CONSTANT CHALLENGE TO HAVE THAT DEFINITION.

>> AND WE OFTEN SAY URBAN VERSUS RURAL.

RURAL VERSUS URBAN.

IT'S LIKE RED VERSUS BROWER WILDCATS VERSUS CARDS.

IS THAT A WRONG WAY TO FRAME IT?

>> I THINK IT CREATES A LOT OF ADDITIONAL KIND OF CONTROVERSY WHEN IT MAY NOT EXIST, AND IN OUR WORLD WE TRY TO THINK ABOUT THE INTEGRATION OF RURAL AND URBAN.

URBAN VERY MUCH DEPENDS ON RURAL FOR NATURAL RESOURCES, FOR LABOR, FOR FARMING, AND OUR RURAL AREAS DEPEND ON URBAN, AND SO WE REALLY TRY FIND WAYS FOR THEM TO WORK TOGETHER AS OPPOSED TO THERE BEING IN FINE LINE THAT SAYS YOU'RE EITHER URBAN OR YOUR RURAL, AND WE THINK THERE'S A NICE KIND OF JOINT PLACE.

>> AND A CODEPENDENCY ON EACH OTHER, AS HE MENTIONED.

DEE DAVIS, YOU KNOW THIS VERY WELL.

THERE'S A LOT OF WEALTH OF RESOURCES THAT THE RURAL AREAS GIVE THE URBAN AREAS AND THE REST OF AMERICA, OUR FOOD, OUR RESOURCES, ENERGY.

THAT COMES FROM OUR RURAL CENTERS.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

I THINK THAT THESE THINGS, THEY EBB AND FLOW, YOU KNOW.

100 YEARS AGO THE COUNTRY WAS ABOUT HALF RURAL, AND NOW IT'S 80% METROPOLITAN OR MORE.

AND SO WE HAVE EXPERIENCED A LOT OF DIFFERENT PHASES WITH THE ECONOMY AND WE'RE GOING TO SEE SOME MORE DYNAMIC SHIFTS POST-COVID AS TECHNOLOGY BEGINS TO MOVE IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.

SO, RIGHT, THE ONLY -- I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING I HEARD EXCEPT I GREW UP IN HAZARD.

I CAN'T IMAGINE ANYBODY FROM HAZARD MOVING TO PIKEVILLE.

[LAUGHTER] THIS TO ME, KNOCKED ME OFF MY PINS.

I'M GOING TO HAVE THINK ABOUT THIS ONE.

>> WE'LL REVISIT HOW YOU FIELD ABOUT THAT AT THE END OF THE PROGRAM.

AL CROSS, YOU KNOW SOMETIMES WE THINK OF URBAN BEING SYNONYMOUS WITH BLACK AND RURAL BEING SYNONYMOUS WITH WHITE.

THAT'S OVERSIMPLIFYING IT CONSIDER.

>> GROSSLY OVERSIMPLIFYING IT ESPECIALLY IN KENTUCKY WHERE ON 8% OF THE POPULATION ARE BLACK.

THIS IDEA OF A URBAN-RURAL DIVIDE, THOUGH, DOES HAVE A RACIAL ELEMENT.

IT'S BEEN EXACERBATED BY POLITICS IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS OR SO.

I THINK A LOT OF RURAL PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TAUGHT OR INDOCTRINATED OR ENCOURAGED TO BE SUSPICIOUS OF URBAN ELITES.

I THINK ONE KEY TO DONALD TRUMP'S ELECTION WAS A RESENTMENT OF URBAN ELITES.

>> AND WHO ARE URBAN ELITES?

>> PEOPLE WHO MAKE MORE MONEY AND HAVE MORE POWER.

>> SO DOES THAT INCLUDE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS?

>> YES.

AND IT MAY EVEN INCLUDE, ACCORDING TO SOME RESEARCH IN WISCONSIN, YOU KNOW, THE GAME RANGER IN YOUR RURAL COUNTY JUST BECAUSE HE REPRESENTS STATE GOVERNMENT.

>> WOW.

SO EVEN PEOPLE THAT YOU MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH, THERE IS A RESENTMENT OR A PERCEPTION OF A RESENTMENT OR EVEN MAYBE STATISTICALLY EVIDENCE OF THOSE KIND OF RECENTMENTS.

>> IT'S BEEN WELL DOCUMENTED INETH NOTHING GRAPH IS LIKE WE SAW IN WISCONSIN BUT THEN PEOPLE PICKED UP ON IT AND WE FOUND IT IN NATIONAL POLLING TOO.

I DON'T THINK KENTUCKY IS THAT MUCH WORSE WHEN IT COMES TO THIS DIVIDE THAN THE COUNTRY AS A WHOLE BECAUSE BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN URBAN KERRY STILL RURAL IN CHARACTER.

THEY'RE NOT ALL THAT FAR REMOVED FROM THE SMALL TOWNS WHERE THEY GREW UP.

>> AND THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU.

WHAT MAKES THE URBAN DIVIDE UNIQUE TO KENTUCKY OR KENTUCKY'S EXPERIENCE WITH IT DIFFERENT FROM OTHER STATES, PARTICULARLY IN THE SOUTH OR THE NORTH, RIGHT?

HOW DO YOU SEE THAT?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE IS -- UNTIL RECENTLY AT LEAST, THERE WAS A LACK OF A RACIAL ELEMENT.

YOU KNOW, THERE WAS AN ANTI-LOUISVILLE FEELING.

BUT IT DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING OR VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH RACE.

IT HAD TO DO WITH JEALOUSY AND THAT ALIEN PLACE 150 MILES AWAY AND HOW DO THOSE PEOPLE LIVE THERE IN A PLACE LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW.

I THINK INCREASINGLY KENTUCKIANS CAME TO REALIZE THAT LOUISVILLE AND LEXINGTON WERE THE ECONOMIC ENGINES OF THE STATE, AND THAT WAS REFLECTED IN THE LEGISLATURE WHEN THEY BUILT THE YUM!

CENTER AND DID OTHER THINGS FER LOUISVILLE.

WE HAVEN'T SEEN IT MANIFEST ITSELF IN THE LEGISLATURE YET ALTHOUGH IT COULD EASILY DO SO, AND I THINK ALL OF THIS TALK ABOUT CRITICAL RACE THEORY MIGHT BE AN EXAMPLE OF THAT.

>> I WANT TO GO TO YOU, DR. RUTHER, TO TALK ABOUT HOW KENTUCKY IS DIFFERENT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE URBAN-RURAL DIVIDE.

AND PARTICULARLY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS ELEMENT OF RACE AND WHERE BLACKS IS NOT A SYNONYMOUS CONCEPT WITH BEING URBAN, AND A LOT OF AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE -- IT'S MORE LIKE A SOUTHERN -- OR MORE LIKE A NORTHERN STATE I THINK YOU SAID TO ME, IN THAT EXPERIENCE AS FAR AS AFRICAN AMERICAN MIGRATION AS OPPOSED TO IN THE SOUTH WHERE BLACKS TEND TO BE MORE IN THE RURAL AREAS.

>> EXACTLY.

SO IN RESPONSE TO WHAT AL SAID, KENTUCKY HAS A VERY, VERY SMALL RURAL BLACK POPULATION, MAYBE 1%.

MOST OF THE BLACK POPULATION IN KENTUCKY LIVES IN LOUISVILLE OR LIVES IN LEXINGTON.

AND YOU CAN COMPARE THAT TO THE REST OF THE SOUTH, ALABAMA, LOUISIANA, MISSISSIPPI, WHERE THERE'S A HUGE RURAL BLACK POPULATION.

BUT EVEN WITHIN OUR CITIES LOUISVILLE IS 21% BLACK.

IT'S NOTE -- IT'S NOT A OVERWHELMINGLY MAJORITY BLACK CITY.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, FURTHER THIS DEFINITION AND HOW OUR LANGUAGE MATTERS AND THE RESENTMENT THAT AL HAD MENTIONED EARLIER, HOW ALL OF THESE THINGS ABOUT HOW I'VE HEARD PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THAT PROGRESSIVE ELITES ARE THESE URBAN ELITES HAVE A WAY OF DOWNGRADING OR DEGRADING THOSE WHO HAVE SOUTHERN DIALECTS AND WHO COME FROM RURAL AREAS.

DR. DAVIS, HOW IMPORTANT IS OUR LANGUAGE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS URBAN-RURAL DIVIDE AND EXPERIENCE OF ONE IN ONE PLACE AND ANOTHER IN ANOTHER?

>> SURE.

I THINK ABOUT MY STUDENTS, AND, YOU KNOW, I FEEL -- WHEN I TEACH -- I TEACH A FRESHMAN CLASS, AND IT'S INTERESTING TO ME BECAUSE WHEN THEY ALL COME IN, THEY ALL SOUND THE SAME.

SOMETHING ABOUT THEIR ACCENT.

THEY ALL SOUND VERY SIMILAR.

>> WELL, YOU'RE FROM CALIFORNIA.

>> I'M FROM BALTIMORE.

NO.

BUT I'VE GOT FOLKS COMING ALL THE WAY FROM THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER OVER TO PIKEVILLE THAT CAME FROM HAZARD -- JUST KIDDING -- BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S JUST SORT OF THIS -- OUR ACCENTS SEEM TO DIFFERENTIATE OURSELVES TO SOME FOLKS, AND I THINK WE PAY A LOT OF ATTENTION TO AC TENTS WHEN, IN FACT, THEY MEAN VIRTUALLY NOTHING.

ACCENTS WHEN THEY MEAN NOTHING.

THE OTHER THING IS PARTICULARLY WORKING FOR UNIVERSITY WE GET ACCUSED A LOT OF GOING IN AND SORT OF EITHER RESEARCHING AN AREA BECAUSE THEY'VE GUILTY THESE PROBLEMS AND WE'RE HERE TO SOLVE THEM OR WE COME IN WITH A SOLUTION BUT AWAY LEAVE BEFORE THINGS HAVE GOTTEN BETTER, AND SO IT HAS FURTHER KIND OF AS EXACERBATED THAT DIVIDE BETWEEN THOSE WHO APPEAR TO BE MORE EDUCATED OR ELITE WITH THOSE WHO ARE REALLY TRYING TO DO BETTER FOR THEMSELVES AND ARE WILLING TO DO IT THEMSELVES YOU, BUT HERE WE COME IN FRYING TO SAVE THE WORLD AND ACTUALLY END UP DOING MORE DAMAGE THAN GOOD.

>> SO YOU COME IN WITH A L. VISION BUT YOU HAVE NO SIGHT.

I KNOW AL CROSS HAS HEARD THAT BEFORE.

THAT YOU HAVE A VERY MYOPIC VIEW OF WHAT THEY'RE ABLE TO DO, WHAT THEY CAN DO, AND THAT YOU CAN COME IN, AS YOU SAID, GIVE THEM THE WORLD.

>> IT'S AS IF WE SUDDENLY HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS WHEN, IN AN ACT, WE HAVE HAD OVER 50 YEARS OF CHALLENGES OF HOW DO WE HELP, YOU KNOW, OR HOW DO WE HELP THEM HELP THEMSELVES, TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THROUGH ECONOMIC CHALLENGES AND SOCIAL CHALLENGES, AND IN FACT THOSE ANSWERS ALL HAVE TO COME FROM WITHIN, AND THEY'RE JUST -- I THINK FOLKS IN RUMOR COMMUNITIES GET TIRED OF BEING TOLD WHAT TO DO WHICH I THINK LEADS TIE LOT OF THE POLITICAL DIVIDE.

>> AL CROSS IS NODDING.

>> YES, THEY DO GET TIRED OF BEING TOLD WHAT TO DO, AND JUST A NOD TO ALISON AND HEAR WORK, SHE WORKS FOR AND WITH RURAL COMMUNITIES THAT WANT ADVICE, AND IT'S A GREAT SERVICE OF THE UNIVERSITY.

SHE'S AN EXTENSION PROFESSOR JUST LIKE I AM.

I CALL MYSELF AN EXTENSION AGENT FOR RURAL JOURNALIST AND NOT REALLY AN EXTENSION AGENT BUT I AM AN EXTENSION PROFESSOR.

WHEN I STARTED THIS JOB 17 YEARS AGO, AS A FORMER SMALL TOWN NEWSPAPER EDITOR MONTICELLO, LEITCHFIELD AND RUSSELLVILLE, I KNEW THAT I COULD NOT SET MYSELF UP AS SOME ELITE AUTHORITY.

YOU KNOW, YOU JUST HAVE TO PUT INFORMATION OUT THERE AND LET PEOPLE TAKE IT AS IT IS AND COME TO YOU IF THEY NEED HELP AND DON'T LECTURE TO THEM, AND I THINK THAT'S ONE PROBLEM WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE IN URBAN AMERICA THESE DAYS.

THEY THINK THAT THOSE HICKS NEED A TALKING TO.

>> SO HOW CAN WE REPLICATE THE EXTENSION AGENT MODEL TO OTHER AREAS TO MAYBE BRIDGE -- >> THERE ARE SOME WHO WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT, AND IT'S A SYSTEM THAT HAS EXISTED FOR A LONG TIME, AND IT'S IN THE COLLEGE OF AGRICULTURE AT OUR UNIVERSITY, BUT IT'S BEEN PROVEN AROUND THE WORLD THAT, AND IN PARTS OF KENTUCKY, TOO, THAT YOU CAN USE EXTENSION AND HEALTH.

THE COMMUNITY HEALTH WORKERS ARE, THERE'S 40,000 OF THEM IN ETHIOPIA.

RIGHT?

AND WE HAVE THEM HERE IN THE HOME PLACE PROGRAM.

THESE ARE CITIZENS WHO HELP THEIR NEIGHBORS NEGOTIATE A COMPLICATED SYSTEM.

AND THAT'S THE KIND OF HELP THAT A LARGE UNIVERSITY OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO GIVE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, ESPECIALLY IN A PLACE LIKE KENTUCKY, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE MORE TELLING OBSERVATIONS I'VE EVER HEARD ABOUT KENTUCKY WAS FROM ANN KING SOLVER, BARBARA KING SOLVER'S SISTER.

ANN DIRECTED THE PLANK CENTER AT UK FOR SEVERAL YEARS AND HE WAS FROM NICHOLAS COUNTY.

AND SHE FIND OUT OUT THAT NICHOLAS COUNTY, RATHER SMALL COUNTY, NOT CLOSE TO ANY CITY OF ANY SIZE, HAD A LOT OF MEME IN IT WHO RARELY GOT BEYOND THE BOUNDS OF NICHOLAS COUNTY, AND THAT IS ONE DRAWBACK OUR STATE HAS IN HAVING SO MANY COUNTIES.

IT LIMITS THE ORBIT THAT PEOPLE OPERATE IN.

IT BECOMES SORT OF IBUPROFENNISM SQUARED.

PROVINCIALISM SQUARED.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING FOR THE NUMBER OF COUNTIES.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY ARE YOU VOTING FOR A COUNTY CONSOLIDATION ON THIS PROGRAM TONIGHT?

>> THAT IS A POLITICAL SUICIDE MISSION.

>> A FOOL AREA EARNED.

>> I THINK PEOPLE IN SMALL COUNTIES DO REALIZED THAT THEY COULD USE SOME HELP FROM TIME TO TIME, AND THERE IS SOME REGIONALIZATION OF SERVICES AND OTHER KINDS OF HELP, BUT WE PROBABLY NEED MORE OF IT.

>> SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT WHERE THE DIVIDE EXISTS, I MENTION IT'S NOT JUST A POLITICAL DIVIDE LINE.

WE SAW IN IT EDUCATION, WE SAW IT WITH REMOTE INSTRUCTION.

THAT WAS AN ISSUE THAT EVEN HAPPENED IN URBAN AREAS THAT HAD THIS DIRTH OF ACCESS.

BUT HEALTH CARE, THERE ARE SO MANY AREAS WHERE WE CAN SAY THERE IS AN URBAN-RURAL DIVIDE IN THE ACCESS TO SERVICES AND THE DELIVERY OF THEM.

>> RIGHT.

THERE ARE DIVIDES, THERE ARE AIR LOT OF THINGS THAT DIVIDE US, AND THERE'S ALSO THE ASSUMPTIONS, LIKE BE, I MEAN, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT POLITICS.

THE REALITY IS THIS LAST ELECTION TRUMP DID BETTER WITH BLACK VOTERS AND HISPANIC VOTERS AND HE DID WORSE WITH WHITE VOTERS IN THE SUBURBS, BUT THAT'S NOT THE STORY WE TELL OURSELVES, AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE THEN FALL INTO THE NARRATIVE RATHER THAN TRY TO CHART WHAT'S HAPPENING.

WE'RE DEFINITELY SEEING SOME HESITANCY WITH VACCINES AND IN SOME RURAL AREAS.

YOU CAN TRACK THAT.

IT REFLECTS WHERE THERE'S BROADBAND PENETRATION.

WE CAN SEE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH INCOME, THAT RURAL PEOPLE ARE GENERALLY POORER, SICKER, AND IN LOTS OF WAYS LESS CONNECTED THAN PEOPLE IN URBAN AREAS.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE'RE PITIFUL OR WHAT THAT WE DON'T HAVE AN OPTIMISTIC WAY TO GO, BUT IT DOES -- YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME CHALLENGES IN RURAL AREAS THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF.

IT WASN'T THAT LONG AGO THAT THERE WAS A LOT MORE COMMERCE IN RURAL AMERICA THAN THERE IS TODAY.

AND WE TAKE OUR IDENTITY A LOT FROM THE COMMERCE, RIGHT?

I COME FROM A COAL MINING COMMUNITY.

PEOPLE SAY THAT.

WE'RE A MINING COMMUNITY.

BUT THE COAL INDUSTRY HAS FALLEN ON VERY HARD TIMES, THE SAME WITH FARMING.

IT TAKES FEWER AND FEWER PEOPLE TO FARM.

LOGGING.

PEOPLE WHO WORKED IN THE PLANT DOWN THE ROAD.

WE ARE CULTURAL MINERS AND FARMERS AND FACTORY WORKERS MORE THAN THAT'S WHAT WE DO.

WE TAKE OUR IDENTITY FROM IT.

AND THERE'S STRENGTH IN IN THAT AND THERE'S ALSO SOME LIMITATIONS.

SO AS WE BEGIN TO TRY TO CHART A PATH, WHERE DO WE GO NEXT?

WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE REALITY OF WHAT'S POSSIBLE FOR US AND WHAT WE CAN DO TO BUILD OUR COMMUNITY.

>> THIS QUESTION FROM ROBERT COUPLING OF RUSSELL COUNTY.

"EVEN THOUGH WE ARE MORE OF AN AGRICULTURAL STATE, HE SAYS, WHY DOES LEGISLATION SEEM TO FAVOR TURBAN AREAS MORE THAN RURAL?"

AL CROSS?

>> I DON'T THINK IT DOES.

>> IS THAT TRUE?

>> I REALLY DON'T THINK IT DOES.

>> BUT THERE'S THE PERCEPTION.

>> I WISH HE HAD GIVEN YOU AN EXAMPLE BECAUSE THERE ARE ALWAYS EXAMPLES THAT ARE CONTRARY TO THE PREVAILING PHENOMENA, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S REALLY TRUE.

WE HAVE A RUHL DOMINATED LEGISLATURE EVEN THOUGH IT'S -- A RURAL DOMINATED LEGISLATURE EVEN THOUGH THE STATE IN URBAN IN POPULATION, AND THAT'S PARTLY BECAUSE OF THE RURAL CHARACTER I WAS TALKING ABOUT.

THERE ARE A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE IN METROPOLITAN AREAS.

PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THIS, BUT A SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OF THE RURAL POPULATION OF AMERICA IS ACTUALLY IN CENSUS TRACTS AND METROS, OLDHAM COUNTY THAT WAS MENTIONED EARLIER, AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE LIVE THERE BECAUSE THEY LIKE THE RURAL LIFESTYLE.

AND THEIR LEGISLATORS REFLECT THAT KIND OF ATTITUDE AND OUTLOOK.

>> I CAN CITE AN EXAMPLE IN ROBERT COUPLING DID NOT, BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT LEGISLATION THAT PASSED THERE LAST SESSION REGARDING TAX INCREMENT FINANCING FOR THE WEST END OF LOUISVILLE -- >> THAT WAS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF BRIDGING A URBAN-RURAL DIVIDE THAT I EVEN WROTE A COLUMN ABOUT.

>> YES.

TELL US HOW.

>> WELL, THE WEST END HAS BEEN A CHRONIC PROBLEM IN LOUISVILLE FOR TWO GENERATIONS NOW.

AND THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF EFFORTS, BUT REALLY NEEDED A GAME CHANGER TO BRING IN CAPITAL.

THAT'S REALLY THE SECRET TO SOLVING POVERTY IN MOST PLACES, IS CAPITAL INVESTMENT, GET PEOPLE SOME JOBS.

AND WHAT ROBERT STIVERS, THE PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE DID, IN COOPERATION WITH SOME FOLKS IN LOUISVILLE WHO STAND TO BENEFIT FROM THIS, BUT THE WEST END AS ALL OF US DO, TOO, SET UP A SPECIAL TAXING DISTRICT OR TAX INCREMENT FINANCING THAT SHOULD FACILITATE DEVELOPMENT IN THE WEST END.

IF IT DOESN'T, I'LL BE SURPRISED AND DISAPPOINTED.

BUT I THINK PRESIDENT STIVERS REALIZED THAT HE'S NOT ONLY THE SENATOR FROM MANCHESTER AND ALL THOSE COUNTIES UP AND DOWN THE EDGE OF THE COAL FIELD, HE'S THE PRESIDENT OF THE KENTUCKY SENATE AND HE HAS A STATEWIDE RESPONSIBILITY, AND YOU HAVE THESE THOUSANDS OF CITIZENS IN THE STATE'S LARGEST CITY THAT HAVE NOT REALLY BEEN DEALT A COMPLETELY FAIR HAND BY STATE GOVERNMENT.

>> BUT DID YOU HAVE SOME RURAL LEGISLATORS WHO SAID, WHAT ABOUT MY PEOPLE?

>> SURE.

YOU'RE ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE THAT.

>> BUT TO RUSSELL CUMMINGS' POINT, THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE THAT URBAN AREAS HAVE OVER RURAL AREAS WHEN IT COMES TO LEGISLATIVE SUPPORT.

>> ON CERTAIN ISSUES THEY MIGHT.

>> ON CERTAIN ISSUES?

>> I WOULD SAY NATIONALLY WE'VE LOOKED AT IT, AND WHAT YOU SEE IS IS THAT, I MEAN, A ROUGH WAY TO SAY IT.

YOU KNOW HOW THE CITIES ARE GOING TO VOTE.

YOU KNOW HOW THE COUNTRY'S GOING TO VOTE.

THE REAL SWING DISTRICT SUBURBS AND 60 PERCENT OF AMERICANS LIVE IN THE SUBURBS OR MORE, AND SO A LOT OF THE CAPACITY BUILDING INVESTMENT, AND THAT CAN BE WATER SYSTEMS, PLANTS, SITES, AIRPORTS, A LOT OF THAT MONEY REALLY MORE GOES INTO THOSE METROPOLITAN AREAS THAT ARE NOT CENTRAL CITIES THAN ANYWHERE ELSE.

>> ON THIS SIDE, I DO WANT TO GET TO A POINT ABOUT -- AND MAYBE THIS SIDE WANTS TO CHIME IN -- THAT ONE OF THE THINGS WE'VE LEARNED ABOUT THE MAYBE RURAL RESENTMENT IS THE POLITICS OF INCREMENTALISM.

THAT PEOPLE WHO 90 MARGINS ARE OKAY WITH SLOW-MOVING POLICY, BUT FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN THE MARGINS WHO ARE STRUGGLING, THEY WANT SWIFT ACTION, AND THEY DON'T SEE THAT RURAL DWELLERS PERHAPS MORE THAN URBAN ONES OR AT LEAST THEY'RE MORE EXPRESSIVE ABOUT IT, AND DOES THAT LEND ITSELF TO THEIR DISCONTINUE CONTENT?

I'LL GO FIRST OVER HERE.

>> I THINK PEOPLE IN RURAL AREAS AND PEOPLE IN URBAN AREAS WHO ARE UNHAPPY ARE UNHAPPY ABOUT VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.

PEOPLE IN URBAN AREAS WHO ARE UNHAPPY LARGELY AN ECONOMIC GRIPE.

THEY'RE POOR.

THEY LACK OPPORTUNITY.

THEY LIKE TO IMPROVE THEIR LIVES.

I THINK WHAT BOTHERS RURAL PEOPLE THE MOST ABOUT AMERICA TODAY IS SOCIAL ISSUES AND HOW THEY DON'T THINK THEIR VALUES ARE BEING REFLECTED AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL.

THEY SEE A COUNTRY THAT IS MOVING AWAY FROM THE THE WAY THAT THEY GREW UP AND WANT TO CONTINUE TO LIVE.

AND THAT IS THE SOURCE REALLY I THINK, THE LARGEST SINGLE SOURCE OF THE URBAN-RURAL DIVIDE WHEN WE SEE IN POLITICS.

>> AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT HOW THAT LEADS TO POLITICAL POLARIZATION IN A BIT.

ANYONE ON THIS SIDE OF THE TABLE?

>> I HAVE TO AGREE WITH AL BUT I STILL THINK THIS ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY IS WHY DON'T WE HAVE JOBS YET?

WHERE ARE THE JOBS?

AND THEY VOTE ON, YOU KNOW, THE JOBS, AND WORKING WITH ELECTED OFFICIALS, THERE'S SUCH AN URGENCY TO MAKE DECISIONS THAT WILL RESULT IN SHORT-TERM WINS THAT MAY NOT HAVE THOSE SAME LONG-TERM GAINS.

>> I DON'T THINK THEY VOTE ON THE JOBS.

I THINK THEY CARE ABOUT THEM, BUT I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S AS BIG A VOTING ISSUE, AT LEAST NOT IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, AS THOSE SOCIAL ISSUES.

>> AND YOU PROBABLY -- I AGREE BUT I ALSO -- THEY SAY IT BUT THEY DON'T VOTE WITH IT BECAUSE THEY'RE CLEARLY MAKING DECISIONS THAT AREN'T NECESSARILY REFLECTING ANY KIND OF ECONOMIC GAINS BASED ON WHOEVER THEY'RE VOTING FOR, BUT I AGREE, BUT I STILL THINK IF I HEAR ONE MORE TIME, WHERE ARE MY JOBS?

WHERE ARE MY JOBS?

AND WHERE ARE MY GUNS?

THOSE TWO THINGS CERTAINLY GO HAND IN HAND.

>> APPARENTLY THERE'S 112,000 JOBS IN KENTUCKY JUST WAITING FOR SOMEBODY TO TAKE THEM, BUT THEY'RE NOT MAYBE SITUATED IN THESE AREAS WHERE PEOPLE ARE DESPERATE TO HAVE THEM.

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?

>> YEAH, WE HAVE A TOTAL MISMATCH RIGHT NOW IN AVAILABLE JOBS AND THE SKILLS OF OUR PEOPLE, AND WE HAVE HESITANCY FOR FOR PEOPLE TO GO BACK TO, AND I WAS CREATED A TREMENDOUS ISSUE.

ONE OF THE EXAMPLES IN JOHNSON COUNTY IS THEY HAVE THIS RELATIONSHIP AMAZING TRAINING PROGRAM FOR ADVANCED MANUFACTURING AND THEY HAVE HAD TRIED TO GET A LOT OF FOLKS, OUT-OF-WORK COAL MINERS AND GET THEM TRAINED INTO POSITIONS THAT WOULD PAY REALLY NICE WAGES, AND UNIVERSAL THERE AREN'T ANY JOBS, AND ESSENTIALLY IT'S AN EXIT STRAIGHT INTO RAY DIFFERENT AREA WHERE THOSE JOBS EXIST.

AND SO WHY AREN'T WE REACHING OUT TO WHERE ALL THOSE JOB OPTION ARE ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND SAY, HERE WE ARE.

WE'VE GOT THIS AMAZING PIPELINE OF REALLY EXCITED PEOPLE READY TO GO TO WORK WHO HAVE THESE SKILLS, BUT IT'S JUST A REALLY BIG MISMATCH.

AND WHEN YOU'RE USED TO MAKING A NICE LIVING WAGE, THE JOBS THAT ARE CURRENTLY OPEN IN A LOT OF OUR RURAL AREAS JUST DON'T MATCH UP.

>> NOW THAT THERE'S REMOTE WORK THAT'S BECOME MORE ESCALATED, DR. RUTHER, IS THAT A BARRIER THAT WE CAN OVERCOME SINCE YOU CAN LIVE AND WORK ANYWHERE YOU OULD WE SEE SOME MIGRATION TO RURAL PLACES THAT HAVE ACCESS TO HIGH SPEED INTERNET BECAUSE THEY CAN WORK ANYWHERE?

>> YEAH, WE SORT OF -- PEOPLE SORT OF THOUGHT THIS WHEN COVID HIT, AND WE SAW THAT IT'S POSSIBLE TO WORK FROM HOME, BUT PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN URBAN AREAS DON'T LIVE THERE EXCLUSIVELY BECAUSE OF THE JOB THAT THEY HAVE THERE.

THERE ARE OTHER AMENITIES OF THE CITY THAT PEOPLE LIKE.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT JUST IF YOU PICK SOMEONE IN LOUISVILLE AND SAY, YO I DON'T MOVE TO, WE'LL SAY, HAZARD, WHY I DON'T MOVE TO HAZARD BECAUSE THE COST OF LIVING IS LOWER AND YOU CAN LIVE ANYWHERE, IT'S NOT QUITE THAT SIMPLE.

CAN I COMMENT ON SOMETHING ELSE?

>> YOU SURE CAN.

ABSOLUTELY.

>> I THINK THAT -- I THINK THAT, DR. DAVIS, ON THE ECONOMIC CONDITIONS IS SPOT ON, AND I THINK THAT THE VOTING PATTERNS OF RURAL AMERICA, ONE OF MAYBE THE URBAN ELITES' PROBLEMS WITH RURAL AMERICA IS THAT THE VOTING PATTERNS DON'T SEEM TO ALIGN WITH THEIR BEST INTERESTS.

RIGHT?

SO IF THERE IS A PARTY THAT'S GOING TO BRING IN JOBS OR MAKES THESE PROMISES, VOTING FOR SOME OTHER ISSUE DOESN'T MAKE ECONOMIC SENSE.

>> SO HERE'S WHAT I HAVE LEARNED IN OUR POLLING AND WHAT I HAVE SEEN.

PEOPLE DON'T VOTE ISSUES.

PEOPLE -- PEOPLE VOTE THEIR FAMILY, THEIR CHURCH, THEIR COUSINS.

THEY VOTE WHO THEY SHOOT POOL WITH.

THEY VOTE T. LIKE THE PEOPLE THEY SEE IN THE HAIRDRESSERS.

PEOPLE VOTE THEIR COMMUNITY AND THEY'RE PART OF COMMUNITY VALUES VALUES.

AND THESE VALUES CAN CHANGE.

THESE COMMUNITIES, THESE POLITICAL VICTORIES CAN CHANGE PRETTY QUICKLY.

BUT IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT LIKE, WELL, DO YOU WANT MORE JOBS OR DO YOU NOT WANT MORE JOBS?

IT'S JUST LIKE IT'S A REDUCTION THAT'S NOT HELPFUL.

I THINK THAT WHAT WE SEE IS THAT COMMUNITIES, THERE ARE A LOT THAT SEPARATE COMMUNITIES.

THERE'S A LOT THAT SPLITS US UP, RIGHT?

BAPTISTS MAY HAVE TROUBLE WITH CATHOLICS, BUT THEY CAN ROOT FOR THE SAME BASKETBALL TEAM.

PRESBYTERIANS AND METHODISTS, IF THEY START WITH WHAT DIVIDES THEM, CAN FIND A LOT OF THINGS, BUT IF WE CAN START WITH WHAT BRINGS US TOGETHER, IF WE CAN START WITH COMMUNETARIAN RESPONSE TO OUR PROBLEMS, THEN YOU'VE GOT A CHANCE TO NOT DWELL ON THE DIVIDES BUT TO BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER IN COMMON PURPOSE AND SERVICE, AND THAT'S REALLY WHERE I THINK WE'RE LOSING THE OPPORTUNITY, IS, YOU KNOW, THE DIVISION IS THERE.

IT'S ACCELERATED BY SOCIAL MEDIA MEDIA.

LIKE FACEBOOK AND OTHER PLATFORMS.

BUT IF WE CAN FRAME WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH WHAT OUR COMMUNITY NEEDS, THEN I THINK WE HAVE A CHANCE TO TRANSCEND SOME OF THESE DIFFERENCES THAT WE THINK ARE INTRACTABLE.

>> SO YOU'VE GOT TO GET ON THE SAME PAGE ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK THOSE COMMUNITY NEEDS ARE, RIGHT?

WE CAN SAY THAT WE ALL WANT THE SAME THING, BUT THAT'S PROBABLY AN OVERSIMPLIFICATION WE WANT SIMILAR THINGS BUT NOT THE SAME THINGS, PERHAPS.

>> THAT TAKES LOCAL LEADERSHIP TO DEVELOP THAT, AND I SEE IN SOME COMMUNITIES, AND FEEL FREE TO DISPUTE ME, I SEE A PAUCITY OF LOCAL LEADERSHIP, PARTLY BECAUSE BIG BOX STORES AND ONLINE SHOPPING AND OTHER FACTORS HAVE ERODED THE MERCHANT CLASS.

AND THE MERCHANT CLASS OF ANY SMALL TOWN HAS ALWAYS BEEN A PRIMARY PIECE OF CIVIC CAPITAL.

IT'S WHERE YOU GET INITIATIVE AND INNOVATION AND CIVIC SPIRIT, AND YOU JUST DON'T SEE THAT AS MUCH ANYMORE BECAUSE YOU DO NOT HAVE THOSE KIND OF LOCALLY-OWNED BUSINESSES THAT CAN -- THEIR MOTIVE WAS ALWAYS PARTLY ECONOMIC.

THE TOWN HAS MORE BUSINESS.

I HAVE MORE BUSINESS AND WE'RE BETTER OFF.

BUT IT WAS ALSO A COMMUNETARIAN KIND OF KNEELING AND BE THE COMMUNETARIAN FEELING EXISTS BUT WITHOUT THAT ECONOMIC MOTIVE, SOMETHING'S MISSING.

>> WELL, ALONG THOSE SAME LINES, A CALLER FROM LEXINGTON ASKED, WHAT EXTENT HAVE JOB OPPORTUNITIES IN RURAL AREAS CHANGED?

IS IT CORRECT THAT 50 YEARS AGO PEOPLE WORKED WHERE THEY LIVED, ESPECIALLY FARMING BUT NOW COMMUTE FROM RURAL TO URBAN AREAS?

>> I CAN ANSWER AT LEAST PART OF THAT.

SO I WAS LOOKING AT SOME DATA FROM OUR CENSUS, OUR ECONOMIC CENSUS, AND 50 YEARS AGO IN MUCH OF THE RURAL POPULATION WAS WORKING IN MANUFACTURING, WAS WORKING IN MINING, ALTHOUGH MINING WAS NEVER AS BIG AS PEOPLE SEEM TO THINK IT WAS, YOU KNOW, AT THAT TIME.

AND NOW I WOULD SAY THAT MOST PEOPLE ARE WORKING IN HEALTH CARE.

IT'S SORT OF EXPLODED.

OF COURSE, MINING HAS DROPPED A LOT.

MANUFACTURING HAS DROPPED EVERYWHERE.

IT'S ACTUALLY WORSE IN THE CITIES.

THE DECLINE IN THE CITIES HAS BEEN MORE THAN THE RURAL AREAS, BUT IT'S BEEN ALL OVER.

THE COMMUTING DATA I LOOKED AT DOESN'T SUGGEST THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE COMMUTING TO LEXINGTON OR LOUISVILLE.

LIKE I SAID, I THINK THEY'RE COMMUTING TO SMALLER PLACES WITH REGIONAL IMPORTANCE.

SO HOPKINSVILLE MAYBE OR SOMERSET.

SO THEY'RE URBAN AREAS BUT THEY'RE SMALL URBAN AREAS.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT IS MORE COMMON.

>> RIGHT.

SO HOPKINSVILLE FOLKS ARE NOT DRIVING TO NASHVILLE HAVE BEEN NECESSARILY.

>> PRESUMABLY NOT.

>> YOU AGREE?

>> I THINK HOPKINSVILLE IS AN INTERESTING STORY BECAUSE I WILL SAY FOR KENTUCKY THAT I WISH THAT THIS WAS A STATE THAT JUST WAS A BIT MORE OF A RISK TAKER AND WAS WILLING JUST TO SAY WE'RE GOING TO TRY THIS, AND IF IT DOESN'T WORK, WELL, THEN WE KNOW, AND HOPKINSVILLE IS ONE OF THOSE EXAMPLES BACK IN THE DAY WHERE THEY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE A PLACE THAT WAS RIGHT NEXT TO FORT CAMPBELL, AND THEY HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE A REALLY COOL DOWN.

AND THEY DECIDED NOT TO TAKE THAT OPPORTUNITY, AND AS A RESULT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STATE IN CLARKSVILLE, INDIANA, IS NOW A BOOMING LITTLE CITY, AND SO I THINK FOLKS FROM HOPKINSVILLE TEND TO DRIVE DOWN THERE.

THEY PROBABLY DON'T DRIVE QUITE AS FAR AS NASHVILLE.

>> BUT TO CLARKSVILLE, TENNESSEE.

>> MM-HM.

WHAT WAS THE COOL OPPORTUNITY?

>> JUST TO BE A TOWN FOR MILITARY WHEN THEY RETIRE, COME OUT OF SERVICE IT IS A PLACE TO LIVE.

IT WAS A WELCOMING PLACE FOR FAMILY, MILITARY, FOR DIFFERENT ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY, AND I STEAD THEY DECIDED NOT TO TAKE THAT GROWTH PATHWAY AND THEY WATCHED THE TENNESSEE SIDE GROW INSTEAD.

>> THAT'S THE PRESERVATION OF.

>>> CULTURE, THOUGH, ISN'T IT DEE DAVIS?

>> AND WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT WE'VE SEEN OUR LEGISLATURE BET ON A LOT OF BAD HORSES.

WE HAVE SEEN THEM BET ON THINGS THAT HAD NO CHANCE OF WINNING.

WE'RE GOING TO PRESERVE THIS.

WE'RE GOING TO KEEP IT HERE EVEN WHEN THE MARKET FORCES WERE MOVING IN ANOTHER DIRECTION.

WHAT'S REALLY POSSIBLE FOR A LOT OF SMALL COMMUNITIES, AND I THINK IT'S TRUE FOR THE URBAN PLACES IN KENTUCKY, TOO, IS THAT THE FUTURE OF A TOWN IS PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE THERE, JUST LIKE THERE'S A CARING ECONOMY WITH HEALTH CARE.

PEOPLE WANT GOOD SCHOOLS.

THEY WANT TECHNOLOGY SO THAT THEY CAN WORK.

IF YOU CREATE A TOWN THAT YOU WANT TO LIVE IN, YOU'VE GOT A LOT BETTER AT BUILDINGS FROM THERE AN ECONOMY THAN TRYING TO FOLKS A WIDGET FACTORY IN OR KEEP AN EXTRACTIVE INDUSTRY THAT'S BEYOND ITS TIME.

YOU KNOW, THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY THAT DRIVES RURAL COMMUNITIES NOT JUST IN KENTUCKY BUT ALL OVER.

AND SO YOU SEE THESE LOCAL EFFORTS TO CREATEY FESTIVALS, TO CREATE A FOOD ENVIRONMENT, TO CREATE A KIND OF WAY THAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AFTER EACH OTHER TO MAKE THE TOWN MORE ATTRACTIVE, AND TO KEEP THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE.

>> KEEP THE BRAIN DRAIN, RIGHT, FROM HAPPENING, THE YOUNGER POPULATION.

>> EDUCATION IS A TWO-EDGED SWORD HERE.

CLARKSVILLE, TENNESSEE, BEAT HOPKINSVILLE PARTLY BECAUSE IT HAS A STATE UNIVERSITY AND HOPKINSVILLE DID NOT.

STILL DOESN'T.

BUT WHILE HAVING AN INSTITUTION OF HIGHER EDUCATION IN A TOWN REALLY ADDS TO THE TOWN AND MAKES IT MORE DIVERSE AND BRINGS IN DIFFERENT KINDS OF INVESTMENT, A LONGSTANDING COMPLAINT OF RURAL PEOPLE IS THAT, YEAH, WE SET UP ALL THESE SCHOOLS AND WE SEND OUR KIDS TO THEM AND THEY JUST STAY IN THE CITY.

AND I THINK IF WE HAD MORE EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS IN SMALLER PLACES, PIKEVILLE UNIVERSITY BEING A GOOD EXAMPLE, THAT'S ONE REASON PIKEVILLE IS HEAD AND SHOULDERS ABOVE THE REST OF EASTERN KENTUCKY TODAY.

IT'S PICKVILLE UNIVERSITY.

AND HAVING HAD A GOVERNOR FROM PIKEVILLE DIDN'T HURT, EITHER.

BUT I THINK THAT EDUCATION IS A KEY, BUT WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO GET EDUCATED STUDENTS BACK TO THEIR COMMUNITIES.

AND I HAVE ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT THE BANKERS OF THIS STATE SHOULD GET TOGETHER AND SAY, WE'RE GOING TO -- EVERY BANK IN THIS STATE IS GOING TO HAVE TWO SCHOLARSHIPS EVERY YEAR FOR PROMISING STUDENTS THAT WE WILL IDENTIFY WHEN THEY'RE SOPHOMORES IN HIGH SCHOOL.

THEY'LL MAKE THE GRADE AND WE'LL SEND THEM TO YOU UK OR EVERY EVERWHERE, AND THEY'RE GOING COME BACK HERE AND GET INTO BUSINESS.

WE WILL HELP THEM GET INTO BUSINESS.

NOW, THAT'S A PRETTY COMPLICATED PROPOSITION.

IT SOUNDS GOOD ON THE OF US U.

SURFACE.

A LOT OF DETAILS TO WORK OUT.

BUT I JUST DON'T THINK THAT THE ENTREPRENEURIAL CLASS, WHAT'S LEFT OF IT IN SMALL TOWNS, IS DOING ENOUGH TO FOSTER A CONTINUING ENTREPRENEURIAL CLASS.

>> I WOULD ALSO SAY, YOU KNOW, WE IN RURAL COMMUNITIES, AND I THINK THIS IS FUNNY BECAUSE LIVING -- I GREW UP IN BALTIMORE AND I HAVEN'T MOVED THERE OR LIVED THERE SINCE I GRADUATED HIGH SCHOOL, AND WE HAVE IN RURAL COMMUNITIES SUCH A NEED TO KEEP OUR CHILDREN, AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO CREATE OPPORTUNITIES, BUT WE SHOULD BE CREATING OPPORTUNITIES FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN FROM OUTSIDE THE COMMUNITY WHO CAN BRING IN FRESH PERSPECTIVES, GREAT IDEAS, SOME PRIVATE CAPITAL, SOME GREAT ENTREPRENEURIAL SPIRIT.

AND WE SORT OF HAVE THIS LIKE CLOSED DOOR AND IN MANY OF OUR COMMUNITIES, IF YOU'RE NOT FROM HERE, DON'T BE BRINGING THIS IDEA HERE, AND THAT CREATES -- AND YOU DON'T SEE THAT AS MUCH IN URBAN AREAS BECAUSE IN URBAN AREAS YOU DO NOT KNOW EVERYBODY, RIGHT?

SO IF I COME INTO AN URBAN AREA AND I MOVE FROM BALTIMORE TO LEXINGTON AND I HAVE A CRAZY IDEA, NO ONE'S GOING TO JUDGE ME.

THEY DON'T KNOW ME.

BUT IF I'M IN A RURAL COMMUNITY, WE KNOW EACH OTHER AND WE'RE VERY COMMUNITY CENTRIC BUT WE ALSO HAVE THE -- WE ALSO CAN BE A BIT JUDGMENTAL AND QUICK TO CRITICIZE IF THINGS DON'T GO WELL, AND I THINK THAT'S GOTTEN MUCH BETTER.

WE WANT PEOPLE TO SUCCEED.

BUT WHEN YOU'RE NO LONGER ANONYMOUS, SOME OF THAT RISK TAKING IS MINIMIZED.

>> THERE ARE TOWNS IN THIS STATE THAT HAVE NOT GROWN BECAUSE PEOPLE CAME TO THE TOWN WITH FRESH IDEAS AND PERSPECTIVES AND WANTED TO BE CIVICALLY ACTIVE.

>> AND THEY WERE OUTSIDERS.

>> AND GOT THE COLD SHOUT, SO THEY LEFT.

>> THAT EXTENDS TO OUR URBAN AREAS AS WELL.

>> SO WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT A LOT BEFORE THE H. ABOUT THE RURAL PERCEPTION AND EXPERIENCE BUT I'M CURIOUS, ONE, WHAT MAKES A SUCCESSFUL RURAL AREA AND WHAT MAKES A SUCCESSFUL URBAN AREA?

>> SO LET'S START WITH THE RURAL AREAS.

SO IF YOU LOOK ACROSS THE U.S. AT WHAT -- AT RURAL AREAS THAT ARE SUCCESSFUL, YOU SEE A COUPLE OF THINGS.

COLLEGES, OBVIOUSLY.

TOURISM.

MILITARY BASES.

AND THEN THAT THIRD THING -- THAT FOURTH THING THAT I COULDN'T REMEMBER THAT I STILL CAN'T REMEMBER.

>> RETIREMENT?

>> RESOURCE EXTRACTION.

>> RESOURCE EXTRACTION, YES.

AND IN KENTUCKY, SO PIKEVILLE, MOREHEAD, MURRAY STATE, THESE ARE SMALL SCHOOLS, BUT THERE'S A LITTLE MORE GOING ON IN THESE TOWNS THAN SOME OF THE OTHER RURAL TOWNS.

SO I THINK THAT THIS IS HOW WE -- THIS IS HOW SOME STRATEGIES FOR RURAL AREAS.

FOR CITIES, I MEAN, THEY'RE ACTUALLY QUITE SIMILAR.

CITIES -- CITIES RIGHT NOW, THE BIG THING IN URBAN AREAS IS TO ATTRACT YOUNG PEOPLE.

EVERYBODY WANTS -- THEY WANTED THE MILLENNIALS.

NOW THEY WANT TO NEW GENERATION.

EVERYBODY IS TRYING TO GET THEM.

SO YOU DO -- YOU DO OPEN LIQUOR, OPEN LIQUOR ZONES AND ACTED THROWING AND ALL THESE REALLY YOUNG -- ACTED THROWING.

>> YIKES.

>> IT'S ABOUT THESE -- AX.

>> NOT AN IN AN OPEN LIQUOR ZONE.

>> MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVELY.

>> HAVE HAVE EXCLUSIVE.

>> USUALLY NOT TOGETHER.

BUT THIS IS WHATSTERS DOING TO ATTRACT PEOPLE.

AND, OF COURSE, THE JOBS.

I MEAN, I GREW UP IN A SMALL TOWN.

AND ONCE I FINISHED, YOU KNOW, I GO BACK AND I -- THE COMMUNITY IS GREAT AND THERE'S SOME BENEFITS THERE, BUT IT WOULD NEVER OCCUR TO ME TO LIVE THERE BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF WHAT I WANT.

>> AND NOT JUST A JOB.

YOU WANT AN EXPERIENCE.

>> RIGHT.

AND MY VALUES, WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THE VALUES THAT RURAL VALUES, PEOPLE ARE NOT SEEING THEM REFLECTED IN THE NATIONAL CONVERSATIONS EVER CONVERSATION, OUR VALUES ARE CHANGING, AND SO I THINK IT'S UNFAIR TO SAY THAT WE SHOULD STICK TO THESE VALUES THAT RURAL AREAS HAVE RATHER THAN NEW VALUES THAT WE MAY SEE IN URBAN AREAS.

>> AND THAT'S WHERE THE RUB COMES IN.

>> I THINK ALL COMMUNITIES -- I MEAN, WE WORK FOR SMARTER, GREENER, MORE INCLUSIVE COMMUNITIES.

RURAL COMMUNITIES, URBAN COMMUNITIES.

WE WANT TO BUILD BRIDGES BETWEEN URBAN AND RURAL.

THERE'S NO REASON THAT THEY CAN'T BE CONNECTED.

AND I THINK THAT FOR A LONG TIME WE JUST ASSUMED THESE RURALS, THE JANE JAKE, RICHARD, FLORIDA POPULATION DINS IS GOING TO BE PROSPERITY, BUT THINGS ARE CHANGING.

TECHNOLOGY'S CHANGING.

THE WAY PEOPLE GO TO COLLEGE IS CHANGING.

WE HAVE BOUGHT INTO SOME SYSTEMS THAT WE THINK WILL BE THERE FOREVER, BUT THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE THOSE SYSTEMS IS REAL, AND THE WAY THAT WE CAN BUILD OUR COMMUNITY, WHETHER IT'S URBAN OR RURAL, IS ALSO REAL.

IT'S JUST -- TAKES A LITTLE IMAGINATION AND SOME GUMPTION.

AND, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE -- THERE ARE SOME CULTURAL ADVANTAGES IN URBAN AREAS.

I KNOW PIKEVILLE HAS A TUTOR'S BISCUIT WORLD.

THAT'S AN ADVANTAGE.

BUT THERE ARE ALSO KINDS LESSONS THAT YOU LEARN FROM YOUR GRANDMOTHER AND YOUR AUNT AND THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE DOWN THE STREET WHO LOOK AFTER EVERYBODY, AND THOSE ARE IMPORTANT, TOO, AND THAT'S TRUE IN CITIES JUST LIKE IT'S TRUE IN RURAL SMALL TOWNS.

>> WHERE DOES HAVE BEEN YEAH FIT IN?

-- USHER EVER SUBURBIA FIT?

[LAUGHTER] >> I SAW IT IN ON YOUR NOTES, AND I IS TO THE THOUGHT, OKAY.

STILL HAVEN'T QUITE FIGURED IT OUT.

IT'S NOT REALLY A BLEND.

IT'S BECOME ITS OWN THING.

IT'S MAJORITY AMERICA.

MOST AMERICANS LIVE IN SUBURBS SUBURBS.

>> BUT DO THEY FOLLOWINGLY?

>> I THINK FOLLOWINGY THEY'RE MORE IDENTIFIED WITH YOU ARE PAN AREAS ECONOMICALLY BUT I THINK THERE'S A STRONG DEGREE OF SOCIAL VALUES THAT RUN THROUGH THEM THAT MAKES THEM MORE LIKE RURAL.

AND IT VARIES FROM SUBURB TO SUBURB.

>> SURE.

>> BUT WE HAVE SEEN IN THE LAST 40 YEARS, AS WELL DOCUMENTED BY OUR FRIEND BILL BISHOP, PEOPLE SORT THEMSELVES OUT INTO THE KINDS OF COMMUNITIES WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO FEEL COMFORTABLE.

AND I THINK A LOT OF THAT IS POLITICAL.

I GREW UP IN ONE OF THE MOST RURAL PARTS OF THIS COUNTRY, AND I'VE BEEN AN ISSUES-ORIENTED JOURNALIST FOR 40 YEARS, AND I THINK WHEN TOO MANY POLITICAL ISSUES LIKE ABORTION AND GENDER RIGHTS BEING THE LEADING EXAMPLES CUT TO THE QUICK OF PERSONAL BELIEFS AND VALUES WHERE THERE'S NO COMPROMISE, WE AVOID DISCUSSING THEM, AND WE KEEP THAT IN MIND WHEN WE CHANGE ADDRESSES.

WE WANT TO MOVE SOMEWHERE WHERE WE CAN HAVE CONVERSATIONS LIKE THAT AND NOT FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE.

>> IF YOU HAVE THE MEANS TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT KIND OF CHOICE.

YOU HAVE TO BE OF A CERTAIN MEANS PERHAPS TO BE ABLE TO DECIDE WHERE YOU WANT TO -- >> A LOT OF AMERICANS WHO MOVE DON'T HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF MEANS.

SOMETIMES THEY HAVE TO MOVE OR VARIOUS REASONS OTHER THAN ECONOMIC.

>> DR. RUTHER, I WAS U.S.

CURIOUS, THE SUBURBIA QUESTION TO YOU.

DO YOU HAVE AN ANSWER OF WHERE THEY FIT IN?

AND THEN I WANT TO TO GET GETS TO THE APPLICABLEELL PARTICULARIZATION.

>> IT DOESN'T FIT IN MIWHERE BUT IT IS THE MAJORITY OF AMERICA.

I THINK IT'S -- IT'S SORT OF NOT KNOWN HOW MUCH CHURN THERE ACTUALLY IS IN OUR POPULATION.

PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS MOVING, SO THE PEOPLE FROM AURAL AREAS ARE MOVING TO SMALLER CITIES AND PEOPLE FROM CITIES ARE MOVING TO SUBURBS, AND PEOPLE FROM THE SMALLERSTERS MOVING TO THE BIGGER CITIES.

YOU MAY WANT BE TO BE IN AN URBAN AREA WHEN YOU'RE YOUNG, MAYBE IN THE SUBURBS WHEN YOU'RE IN CHILD-BEARING AGES, MAYBE RURAL AREAS WHEN YOU'RE OLDER AND RETIRED, SO SOME OF THIS IS ALSO RELATED TO THE STAGE IN LIFE.

>> SO WE WANT TO POLITICAL PARTICULARIZATION, THE CAUSES AND EFFECTS OF URBAN-RURAL DIVIDE ON THAT.

WHO WANTS TO START THAT CONVERSATION?

DEE DAVIS, YOU LOOK LIKE YOU'RE SO RIGHT NOW THERE'S A HUGE DIVIDE.

AND THERE WERE DIFFERENT KINDS OF DIVIDES BEFORE.

20 YEARS AGO, 50 YEARS AGO.

THESE THINGS CHANGE.

WE TEND TO THINK THEY'RE PERMANENT AND WE TEND TO THINK THAT THE SITUATION WE'RE CONFRONTING THIS MOMENT IS THE SITUATION THAT WE'LL CONFRONT IN THE NEXT DECADE.

BUT THE REALITY IS THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF CHANGING, POPULATION IS CHANGING.

IT'S A DYNAMIC ECONOMY.

THERE'S IMMIGRANTS.

AND DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE COUNTRY IN THE NEXT 35 YEARS, THE MAJORITY OF RURAL COUNTIES WILL BE MAJORITY PEOPLE OF COLOR COLOR.

WE CAN SAY, SEE RURAL COUNTIES AND ASSUME THAT THEY'RE ALL WHITE OR MONOLITHIC OR REDNECK, BUT THE REALITY IS THAT THERE'S A LOT OF DYNAMISM WORKING IN OUR RURAL COUNTIES, AND WHAT WE NEED TO CONCENTRATE ON IS MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE BUILDING INCLUSIVE WAYS TO LEARN FROM EACH OTHER AND TO CREATE A COMMON FUTURE.

>> I JUST THINK IT'S -- I SPENT A LOT OF TIME GOING INTO RURAL COMMUNITIES, AND WHILE I WOULD IMAGINE THAT I VOTE DIFFERENTLY, IT'S NEVER PART OF THE DISCUSSION OF HOW A COMMUNITY IS TRYING TO GET ITS LEGS UNDER IT.

IT'S A VERY OPTIMISTIC, IT'S JUST DO THE BEST THAT WE CAN, EVEN WHEN I'M WORKING WITH ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO ARE REPRESENTING THOSE RURAL COMMUNITIES, THERE'S NEVER A POLITICAL DISCUSSION.

WHEN IT'S TIME TO ACT LOCALLY, IT IS WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO RIGHT HERE TO TRY TO GET BILLY JOE DOWN THE STREET WHODUNNIT A HOUSE OR THE HOSPITAL IS GETTING READY TO CLOSE.

IT'S NEVER A POLITICAL DISCUSSION.

SO I FIND THAT REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE THERE ARE TIMES WHERE I STEP OUTSIDE AND I SAY, I THINK VERY DIFFERENTLY.

MY VALUES ARE VERY DIFFERENT.

BUT WHEN I'M ACTUALLY IN A PLACE, IT NEVER SHOWS UP.

IT'S ALWAYS, WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER.

I DON'T KNOW.

I WOULDN'T KNOW IN MOST INSTANCES WHO IS A BLUE, WHO IS A RED, EVEN WHEN I'M TALKING TO PRESIDENT STIVERS.

IT DOESN'T COME UP IN CONVERSATION.

IT IS WHAT DO WE DO TO MAKE MANCHESTER A PLACE WHERE WE CAN FIGHT OPIOID ISSUES, WHERE WE CAN FIGHT HOMELESSNESS, WHERE WE CAN GET A VIBRANT DOWNTOWN.

AND SO FOR ME I DON'T HAVE ANY DIPLOMAS GOING THERE, SO THAT DIVIDE TOTAL DISAPPEARS.

>> AL CROSS.

>> COULD I JUST -- >> SURE.

>> I THINK TO TIE THESE TWO POINTS TOGETHER, THIS DIVIDE HAS ALWAYS BEEN HERE GOING WAY BACK.

I THINK THAT SOCIAL MEDIA IS A REALLY PROBLEMATIC THING BECAUSE WHEN YOU ARE FACE TO FACE WITH SOMEONE RIGHT NOW, FOR EXAMPLE, I CAN'T -- I'M NOT GOING TO SAY YOU RURAL PEOPLE ARE ALL WRONG BECAUSE CIVILITY, RIGHT?

AND WHEN DR. DAVIS GOES INTO THESE COMMUNITIES, YOU KNOW, FACE TO FACE IS DIFFERENT THAN WHEN YOU ARE ANONYMOUS, AND I THINK -- I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW THE TO BLAME IT ALL ON THAT BUT I THINK THAT'S A BIG ISSUE.

>> OR JUST THE MEDIA IN GENERAL, THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA.

HOW MUCH OF A CULPRIT ARE THEY, AL CROSS, IN THIS?

>> FRANKLY THEY MATTER LESS THAN SOCIAL MEDIA TODAY.

I'M A MAINSTREAM MEDIA GUY 50 YEARS, AND I'LL ADMIT SOCIAL MEDIA RULED THE DAY, AND THEY ERODE THE NATURE OF COMMUNITY.

WE'VE ONLY GOT SO MUCH TIME ON OUR HANDS, AND THE MORE TIME PEOPLE SPEND IN THESE NON-GEOGRAPHIC VIRTUAL COMMUNITIES, THE LESS TIME THEY HAVE TO SPEND WITH THEIR GEOGRAPHIC COMMUNITIES AND PUT SOME INITIATIVE AND EFFORT INTO ADDRESSING THEIR PROBLEMS.

AND AT THE SAME TIME YOU GET ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND GET IDENTIFIED AS BEING RED OR BLUE, TRUMP OR ANTI-TRUMP, AND THAT MAKES PERSONAL RELATIONS AMONG PEOPLE IN SMALL TOWNS MORE DIFFICULT.

I'VE HAD NEWSPAPER EDITORS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY TELL ME THAT HAS BECOME A REALLY DISTURBING PHENOMENA.

ONE GUY IN IOWA SAID, THE ONLY PLACE YOU DO NOT SIGHT UNTIL THE ROTARY CLUB WHERE IT'S ENFORCED.

[LAUGHTER] >> ALONG WITH THAT OATH, RIGHT?

AND THERE ARE SOME NEWSPAPER WHO ARE SAYING WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET INTO THE SOCIAL MEDIA FRAY, RIGHT?

>> WELL, THEY ARE KNOW THEY HAVE TO BE THERE BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO BE THERE IN A BIG WAY.

YOU SHARON BURTON DOUBT AN COLUMBIA A COUPLE WEEKS AGO SAID THAT SHE WAS GOING TO STOP PUTTING REFERENCES TO SOCIAL MEDIA SITES AT THE END OF NEWS STORIES BECAUSE IT'S JUST A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE GET DIVIDED.

AND SHE ENCOURAGED BUSINESSES TO NOT HAVE FACEBOOK PAGES BUT TO SET UP THEIR OWN WEB PAGES.

YOU'VE GOT EASY SOFTWARE THAT LETS YOU SET UP YOUR OWN WEB PAGE.

AND YOU GET TO RULE THAT AND THE COMMENTS AND EVERYTHING.

AND IT'S OFF SOCIAL MEDIA, WHICH IS FRANKLY DISRUPTIVE.

IT IS IN MANY WAYS CONSTRUCTIVE.

I GOT ON FACEBOOK TODAY TO HELP A FRIEND FIND A HOME FOR A DOG THAT NEEDS A HOME.

IT'S A GREAT SERVICE.

BUT WHEN IT COMES TO BUILDING COMMUNITY, PRETTY DAMN BAD.

>> COMMUNITY JOURNALISM CAN DO ITS PART IF IT'S THERE, IF IT SURVIVES, RIGHT?

>> WE'LL ALWAYS HAVE SOME FORM OF COMMUNITY JOURNALISM EVEN IF IT'S COMMITTED BY CITIZENS ON FACEBOOK, BUT WHAT WORRIES ME IS THAT WE HAVE DECLINING CIRCULATION AND REVENUE OF COMMUNITY NEWSPAPERS, NOT JUST BECAUSE OF THE DIGITAL REVOLUTION AND THE AGING OF RURAL COMMUNITIES, BUT BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT THE EASY WAY OUT, AND THEY THINK THE EASY WAY OUT IS TO PULL THIS OUT AND CLICK A FEW BUTTONS AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO BOTHER WITH A COMMUNITY NEWSPAPER.

THAT'S NOT HOW YOU GET RELIABLE NEWS AND INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR COMMUNITY.

CAN I MAKE MY ELEVATOR SPEECH?

>> YOU SURE CAN.

I THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO BUT NOT THREE PLEASANT WORTH.

>> HERE'S THE ELEVATOR SPEECH EVERYBODY OUGHT TO REMEMBER.

IF YOU REMEMBER NOTHING ELSE FROM THE SHOW.

NEWS MEDIA PRACTICED JOURNALISM WHICH HAS A DISCIPLINE OF VERIFICATION.

WE TELL YOU HOW WE KNOW SOMETHING OR WE QUOTE SOMEBODY.

IT'S SOURCED.

IT'S REFERENCED.

WE TRY TO BE RELIABLE.

NOT PERFECT BUT WE'VE GOT A PRETTY GOOD FIELDING AVERAGE.

SOCIAL MEDIA HAS NO DISCIPLINE AND NO VERIFICATION.

WHO ARE YOU GOING TO TRUST?

REMEMBER THAT NEXT TIME YOU CLICK ON FACEBOOK.

>> AND THIS MESSAGE WAS ENDORSED BY AL CROSS.

[LAUGHTER] HE APPROVES THIS MESSAGE.

AND SO DOES RENEE SHAW.

I I KNOW DO NOT MAKE EDITORIAL COMMENTS BUT I WILL ON THAT ONE.

IN THE COUPLE OF MINUTES WE HAVE REMAINING, SO LET'S OWNED A POSITIVE NOTE HOW WE BRIDGE POLITICAL DIVIDES AND PEOPLE AND WORKS WHO ARE DOING THAT WORK, APPALSHOP 1 ALL OF YOUR ORGANIZATIONS DOING THAT TO SOME EXTENT BUT WHO WOULD YOU LIFT UP TONIGHT?

>> I THINK THAT FROM COMMUNITY TO COMMUNITY, WE HAVE SEEN IT NOT JUST IN KENTUCKY BUT IN PLACES WE WORK, PEOPLE ARE USING THEIR BEST -- THEIR BEST EFFORTS AND MOST OF THEIR IMAGINATION TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW YOU BREAK SOME OF THESE BARRIERS.

THEY KNOW THAT THE FUTURE OF THEIR COMMUNITY DEPENDS ON WHAT THEY CAN DO TO FIX PROBLEMS, TO HELP PEOPLE OUT WHEN THEY'RE IN NEED, AND I THINK WE JUST NEED TO LIFT THAT UP A LITTLE BIT AND TO CELEBRATE THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE MAKING A DIFFERENCE.

>> AND I WOULD SAY I KNOW IN J.D.

VANCE'S BOOK CAME OUT THERE WAS JUST TWO SIDES, AND THE SIDE THAT LIVES IN APPALACHIA AND LIVES IN RURAL WAS FURIOUS BECAUSE HERE WE'RE TRYING TO TELL A POSITIVE NARRATIVE SO PEOPLE WHO ARE OUTSIDE THE REGION, PEOPLE WHO ARE INSIDE ARE YOUNGSTERS WHO I THINK I GOT TO GET OUT OF HERE, THERE'S NO HOPE, AND IT WILL JUST -- WE'VE GOT GOT TO DO THAT POSITIVE STORYTELLING, AND IF IT'S THROUGH THE MEDIA OR A 60 MINUTES AND THEY COME INTO A PLACE AND FRY TO FIND THE SORRIEST PERSON AND SAY, HERE YOU GO, WHEN YOU HAVE RIGHT NEXT DOOR SOMEONE WHO HAS A Ph.D., A PHYSICIAN WHO IS HERE TO CARE FOR EVERYONE'S KIDS, WHY ARE WE TELLING THAT NEGATIVE STORY?

SO I THINK TRYING TO SHOWCASE THE SUCCESS STORIES AND THE POSITIVE ATTRIBUTES IS THE KEY FORWARD.

>> IT'S BRIGHT SPOTS, DR. RUETHER?

A QUICK COMMENT FROM YOU, ABOUT 20 SECONDS.

>> IT'S ALL ABOUT EDUCATION IN MY MIND.

OUR UNIVERSITIES HAVE A ROLE HERE.

OUR ELEMENTARY AND SCHOOLS HAVE A ROLE HERE.

AND BRIDGING THIS GAP, UNDERSTANDING THESE DIFFERENT -- DIFFERENT PLACES THAT WE COME FROM.

>> RENEE, I'D SAY IF PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN HELPING THEY ARE COMMUNITIES, GO TALK TO EXTENSION AGENTS.

THE EXTENSION AGENTS WANT TO HELP BUT THEY CAN'T BE SUPER PROACTIVE.

THEY DON'T WANT -- THEY CAN'T GET INTO POLITICAL FIGHTS, BUT THEY ARE THERE TO HELP.

AND A LOT OF THEM WOULD BE PLEASED TO HAVE SOMEBODY RING THEM UP AND SAY, WHAT CAN THEY DO ABOUT X, Y OR Z.

>> GOOD PLUG.

TRUE.

ALL THIS HAS BEEN A GREAT DISCUSSION AND WE'LL HAVE MORE OF THESE BECAUSE I THINK THESE ARE REALLY IMPORTANT IN THESE TIMES.

YOU CAN JOIN BILL BRYANT ON "COMMENT" FOR FRIDAY TO DISCUSS THE WEEK'S NEWS.

NEXT ON "KENTUCKY TONIGHT" WE TALK ABOUT THE CHILD CARE CHALLENGES FACING OUR STATE.

SEE YOU THEN.

TAKE