♪.

TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," A LOOK AT THE LEGAL ASPECTS OF PRESIDENT TRUMP'S BAN OF SELECTED MEDIA OUTLETS FROM THE WHITE HOUSE.

>>> ALSO TONIGHT, MORE ON A GROUNDBREAKING PANCREATIC CANCER DRUG THAT'S ALREADY BEING ADMINISTERED IN ARIZONA.

>>> AND A NEW STUDY FINDS HOW INFORMATION CAN PROVE THAT SWEAT CAN COOL THE BODY IN DRY AND WINDLESS WEATHER.

THOSE STORIES AND MORE NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON," I'M TED SIMONS.

PRESIDENT TRUMP'S RECENT ATTEMPT TO BAN REPORTERS FROM CNN, MS NOW AND POLITICO FROM THE WHITE HOUSE, IS IN THE COURTS AND REPORTERS FROM THOSE NEWS AGENCIES ARE, FOR THE MOST PART, BACK ON THE JOB.

BUT CNN CONTINUES TO BE KEPT FROM WHITE HOUSE POOL ACTIVITIES AND A TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORDER BLOCKING THE PRESIDENT'S ORIGINAL BAN EXPIRES OCTOBER 8.

HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE LEGAL ASPECTS OF ALL THIS IS ROY HERRERA, FOUNDING PARTNER OF HERRERA ARELLANO LLP.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

TED: HE DECIDES THESE THREE OUTLETS CAN'T BE AT THE WHITE HOUSE, CAN'T COME ON AIR FORCE ONE.

CAN HE DO THAT?

>> IT WAS ABOUT A WEEK AND A HALF AGO, HE ANNOUNCED THE NEWS OUTLETS WERE REVOKED.

PRESS CREDENTIALS WERE REVOKED.

THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED ON WHITE HOUSE GROUNDS, WEREN'T ALOUD TO PARTICIPATE IN THE POOL.

THE SHORT ANSWER IS YES, HE HAS THE ABILITY TO DECIDE WHO'S PART OF THE PRESS THAT CAN COVER HIM, PRIOR PRESIDENTS HAVE DONE THAT, BUT THERE'S A PROCESS AND THERE ARE RULES RELATED TO THAT, WHICH WE CAN GET INTO.

>> GO AHEAD, GET INTO IT.

I'M CURIOUS.

WHO DECIDES CNN, OKAY, BUT TED'S WIRE SERVICE IS NOT ALLOWED?

>> SO FOR EXAMPLE, THERE ARE PRESS CREDENTIALS, RIGHT?

THE WHITE HOUSE GIVES OUT PRESS CREDENTIALS, ALL THE NEWS OUTLETS THAT CAN COME.

THE KIND OF PRESS OUTLETS CHANGE OVER TIME.

PRESIDENT BIDEN, FOR EXAMPLE, REVOKED THE PRESS KESHLS OF A LOT OF OUTLETS.

HOWEVER, HE DID SO PURSUANT TO A PARTICULAR CRITERIA OF HOW OFTEN, FOR EXAMPLE, REPRESENTATIVES OF THE OUTLETS COME TO THE WHITE HOUSE, ET CETERA.

THERE WAS A PROCESS.

THE PROBLEM HERE AND WHAT WE SAW FROM THE NEWS OUTLETS, THEY CHALLENGED THIS ON CONSTITUTIONAL GROUNDS SAYING THE PRESS CREDENTIAL REVOCATION WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL UNDER THE FIRST AMENDMENT BECAUSE IT WAS RETALIATORY.

THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF SAID HE WAS REVOKING THE CREDENTIALS BECAUSE HE DIDN'T LIKE THEIR COVERAGE.

ALSO, IT WAS A VIOLATION OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT BECAUSE THEY DISCRIMINATED AGAINST THEIR PARTICULAR VIEWPOINTS.

AGAIN, THE PRESIDENT DIDN'T LIKE THEIR PARTICULAR VIEWPOINTS BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, THIS VIOLATED THEIR DUE PROCESS RIGHTS, SO THE IDEA IS THAT THESE NEWS OUTLETS HAVE LIBERTY AND PROPERTY INTEREST WITH THE PRESS CREDENTIALS AND SUPPOSED TO BE GIVEN NOTICE AND OPPORTUNITY TO REBUT THE DECISION THAT THE PRESIDENT MADE.

THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN HERE AND THAT'S WHY THERE WAS A TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORDER ISSUED.

TED: IF DUE PROCESS WERE INVOLVED, THE PRESIDENT SAID FAKE NEWS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED AT THE WHITE HOUSE, SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PUT UP WITH NEGATIVE REPORTING AND THE ATTORNEYS SAID NATIONAL SECURITY CONCERN HAVING THESE THREE OUTLETS.

WHICH SIDE YOU GOING AT HERE?

>> RIGHT.

THAT'S AN INTERESTING ARGUMENT THAT THE PRESIDENT'S LAWYERS ARE MAKING IN THE CASE.

WE'RE REVOKING THE CREDENTIALS BECAUSE THE COVERAGE BY THE THREE OUTLETS THREATENED NATIONAL SECURITY.

OF COURSE, THE PRESIDENT DIDN'T SAY ANY OF THAT WHEN HE ANNOUNCED WHY HE WAS REVOKING THE CREDENTIALS WHICH IS POINTED OUT BY THE JUDGE, THAT IS NOT THE REASONING THAT THE PRESIDENT GAVE, AND AGAIN, WE HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS EVER BEFORE.

I MENTIONED WHAT BIDEN DID, A SYSTEMIC THING, IT WASN'T DESIGNED TO RETALIATE AGAINST PARTICULAR PRESS.

PEOPLE WHO LOST PRESS CREDENTIALS UNDER BIDEN WERE ALLOWED ON A DAILY BASIS INTO THE WHITE HOUSE.

IT WASN'T AS IF THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO COVER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS PROPOSING IS A PERMANENT BAN FOR THE THREE OUTLETS.

>> TRUMP'S ATTORNEYS, THE PRESIDENT'S ATTORNEYS, DO THEY HAVE IT STRAIGHT NOW?

IS IT NATIONAL SECURITY, OR IS IT NEGATIVE REPORTING?

THEY GOT TO GO WITH NATIONAL SECURITY, DON'T THEY?

>> THEY WILL GO WITH THAT.

THE OTHER PROBLEM WITH THE ARGUMENT, AS THE JUDGE POINTED OUT, IS THAT THE NATURE OF THE STORIES THAT THE PRESIDENT AND HIS ATTORNEYS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT, HAVE TO DO WITH STORIES ABOUT WEAPONS STOCKPILES, THE BALLROOM, THINGS LIKE THAT HAVE BEEN REPORTED ON FOR WEEKS AND MONTHS.

THE JUDGE LOOKED AT THAT AND SAID HOW IT COULD BE SUDDENLY A DANGER TO NATIONAL SECURITY IF THE REPORTERS AT POLITICO HAVE BEEN REPORTING ON THIS FOR YEARS NOW, SEEMS LIKE A CONVENIENT ARGUMENT.

ULTIMATELY A TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORDER, ALL OF THIS IS GOING TO GET ADJUDICATED ON THE MERITS AND WE'LL SEE WHAT THE RULES ARE.

TED: TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORDER IN EFFECT.

THEY'RE BACK THERE ON THE WHITE HOUSE GROUNDS BUT ON AIR FORCE ONE, CNN WASN'T ALLOWED ON AIR FORCE ONE, OTHER MEDIA OUTLETS WERE, AND I THINK THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, ACT AS THE PRESIDENT'S ATTORNEY RIGHT NOW, LET'S NOT KID OURSELVES, HE SAID QUOTE, IT'S A PRIVILEGE, NOT A RIGHT TO BE AT THE WHITE HOUSE.

THAT'S DEAD WRONG, IT IS A RIGHT FOR THE PRESS TO BE AT THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> RIGHT.

THE FIRST AMENDMENT GUARANTEES THE FREEDOM OF THE PRESS, AND THAT IS INCORRECT AS STATEMENT OF LAW.

THIS ISN'T SOMETHING WHERE IT'S A PRIVILEGE TO BE THERE.

LIKE I SAID, THERE HAVE BEEN INSTANCES WHERE THERE ARE CONTROLS WHO CAN ENTER THE WHITE HOUSE, LEGITIMATE PRESS, FOR EXAMPLE, BUT JUST A BLANKET PROHIBITION IS NOT SOMETHING WE'VE SEEN BEFORE.

IN THE FIRST TRUMP TERM, HE TRIED TO PROHIBIT TWO PARTICULAR REPORTERS FROM ENTERING THE OVAL OFFICE, AND THAT WAS ALSO CHALLENGED ON LEGAL GROUNDS AND SIMILARLY A JUDGE DENIED HIM THE ABILITY TO DO THAT BECAUSE HE DIDN'T GIVE THE ABILITY TO REBUT THE REVOCATION.

TED: HOW MANY ARE ALLOWED CERTAIN ACCESS WHILE HE DECIDED THESE THREE WHICH WERE ALLOWED ARE NO LONGER ALLOWED, HOW DOES THAT PLAY INTO IT?

>> ONE OF THE IMMEDIATE REACTIONS FROM THE OTHER NEWS NETWORK IS THEY PULLED THEIR REPORTERS FROM THE PRESS POOL.

WE HAVE THE SCENARIO WHERE THE PRESIDENT WAS GOING TO DIFFERENT EVENTS AND THERE WAS NO AUDIO BECAUSE THERE WAS NO POOL COVERAGE.

THAT WOULD CONTINUE.

GOING BACK TO THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, THERE WAS AN ATTEMPT BY THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO PREVENT FOX NEWS FROM INTERVIEWING A TREASURY DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL.

THE REACTION FROM THE PRESS WAS SO OVERWHELMING THAT THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION ALLOWED THAT INTERVIEW TO GO FORWARD.

I WOULD IMAGINE SOMETHING LIKE THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN HERE IF PRESIDENT TRUMP CONTINUES TO TRY TO PROHIBIT THE REPORTERS, I IMAGINE, THE OTHER REPORTERS FROM THE OTHER NETWORKS WILL SHOW SOLIDARITY AND NOT COVER THE PRESIDENT.

TED: SOUNDS LIKE HE WANTS TO CONTINUE DOING THIS, DOING IT ON AIR FORCE ONE.

THE POOL REPORTING, CNN NOT ALLOWED WITH POOL REPORTING BUT THE WHITE HOUSE IS SAYING THEY'RE ALLOWED CREDENTIAL MEDIA AS THEY SEE FIT, AND REPORTING ON THE WHITE HOUSE DOESN'T GUARANTEE ACCESS TO THE PRESIDENT.

THAT A GOOD POINT?

>> WELL, AGAIN, THERE'S CONSTITUTIONAL GROUNDS HERE THAT IT'S GOING TO ULTIMATELY BE ADJUDICATED BY THE COURTS.

MOST OF THE PRIOR DECISIONS HAD TO DO WITH DUE PROCESS RIGHTS OF THE REPORTERS WHO WERE BANNED, AND IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE, IF THIS CONTINUES, IT SEEMS AS THOUGH, AND THIS HAPPENED IN OTHER ARENAS OF THE LAW, WHERE THE ADMINISTRATION HASN'T CLOSELY FOLLOWED JUDICIAL ORDERS.

I IMAGINE WE'LL SEE ATTORNEYS GOING BACK TO THE JUDGES AGAIN AND AGAIN SAYING THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION IS NOT FOLLOWING WHAT YOU'RE TELLING THEM TO DO AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

I IMAGINE IF THERE IS ADDITIONAL ATTEMPTS TO DO THIS, ADDITIONAL LITIGATION.

TED: BEFORE YOU GO, YOU CAN COMMENT ON THE ELECTION SITUATION AND THE PRESIDENT'S ORDER AND WHAT THE SUPREME COURT ALLOWED TO HAVE IN HERE?

WE DON'T HAVE TOO MUCH, ENCAPSULATE WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

>> SO THE SUPREME COURT, THE MAJORITY IS ALLOWING THE ADMINISTRATION TO GO FORWARD ON THE SAVE DATABASE, A MODIFIED DATABASE THAT THE PRESIDENT WANTS TO USE TO CHECK THE VOTER ROLLS TO ALLOW STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE CITIZEN TO CHECK WHETHER THEY ARE NONCITIZENS ON THE VOTER ROLLS.

LOOKS LIKE THE SAVE SYSTEM IS ALLOWED TO BE USED BY STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS GOING FORWARD.

WE'RE SO CLOSE TO THE ELECTION NOW, LESS THAN 90 DAYS FROM THE ELECTION, THERE'S A SEPARATE FEDERAL LAW THAT DOESN'T ALLOW SYSTEMIC PURGING OF THE VOTER ROLLS.

THE BEST THING THAT WILL HAPPEN FOR THE STATES THAT ARE PARTICIPATING IS INDIVIDUALIZED SEARCHES AND PURGES POTENTIALLY, BUT WE'RE SO CLOSE TO THE ELECTION, IT'S UNCLEAR WHAT IT WILL DO FOR THIS ELECTION, THAT'S A SEPARATE CONCERN OVER FUTURE ELECTIONS.

TED: ONCE THE ELECTION IS OVER, KATY BAR THE DOOR.

>> WE'RE SORT OF ONLY IN THE INJUNCTION PHASE OF THE LITIGATION, THAT WILL CONTINUE.

THE MERITS WILL BE HEARD, BUT THE CONCERN IS REAL.

IF THE SAVE DATABASE IS USED GOING FORWARD, THE CITIZENS WILL BE KICKED OFF OF THE VOTER ROLLS.

>> ATTORNEY ROY HERRERA, GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE, THANK YOU, SIR?

>> THANK YOU.

.

TED: WE RECENTLY FEATURED A STORY OF THE FDA'S APPROVAL OF A PROMISING NEW TREATMENT FOR PANCREATIC CANCER.

SOME PATIENTS IN ARZ ARPZ ALLOWED EARLY ACCESS TO THE TREATMENT.

JOINING US IS DR.

ERKUT BORAZANCI, DIRECTOR OF ONCOLOGY.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

SO THE FDA, THIS WAS A BIG DEAL.

WE HAD A DOCTOR ON HERE, AND SHE WAS PRACTICALLY IN TEARS TALKING ABOUT HOW BIG A DEAL FOR PANCREATIC CANCER THIS IS.

YOU ALREADY KNEW THAT?

>> IT'S INCREDIBLE.

WE'VE KNOWN ABOUT THE MUTATION KNOWN AS KRAS, THE ON SWITCH TO PANCREATIC CANCER, AFFECTS 50,000 TO 60,000 PEOPLE IN THE YEAR.

THE THIRD RELATED CAUSE IN THE UNITED STATES.

WE KNOW THE SWITCH FOR KRAS MAKES CANCER GROW IN 90% OF PEOPLE.

FOR DECADES, OUR OPTIONS UP UNTIL THIS YEAR HAVE BEEN FOCUSED ON CHEMOTHERAPY, WHICH IS A NONDISCRIMINATORY POISON AGAINST THE CANCER.

THE FACT THAT A PILL NOW EXISTS STRIKES AT THE HEART OF THE PANCREATIC CANCER, THE ON SWITCH IS A HUGE MILESTONE.

TED: AS FAR AS PATIENTS GETTING EARLY ACCESS, EXPANDED ACCESS PROGRAM.

WHAT DOES IT ENTAIL?

>> AFTER TRIALS ARE CONDUCTED, YOU GO FROM THE PROMISING DRUG FROM A PHASE 1 FIRST IN HUMAN STUDY TO A PHASE 3 WHERE YOU ARE COMPARING IT VERSUS THE STANDARD OF CARE.

THERE'S A PERIOD OF TIME WHERE THE COMPANY IS GETTING INFORMATION TOGETHER AND SUBMITTING IT TO THE FDA FOR APPROVAL.

DURING THIS GAP, THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET THIS DRUG BECAUSE THIS INFORMATION IS DISSEMINATED, PRESENTED AT MAJOR CONFERENCES, PUBLISHED IN PAPERS, SO PHYSICIANS AND PATIENTS KNOW ABOUT THE PROMISE OF A DRUG LIKE THIS.

THE COMPANY WITH THE FDA'S GUIDANCE WAS ABLE TO OFFER THIS THROUGH THE PROGRAM FOR PEOPLE ELIGIBLE FOR GETTING THIS PILL.

TED: AND THE PEOPLE ELIGIBLE ARE PEOPLE THAT CHEMOTHERAPY IS NOT GOING TO DO IT ANY MORE?

THESE ARE ACCELERATED PATIENTS, CORRECT?

>> RIGHT.

THIS IS DEALING WITH INDIVIDUALS WITH STAGE 4 PANCREATIC CANCER, SURVIVAL IS VERY, VERY FAIR, THESE ARE INDIVIDUALS THAT MAY NOT HAVE OPTIONS.

THIS WAS A GREAT OPTION FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE IN ARIZONA AND THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY.

TED: MEANS PATIENTS LIVE TWICE AS LONG AS THEY DO ON CHEMO?

SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES?

>> WHEN THEY DID THE STUDY.

PEOPLE WHO CANCER PROGRESSED ON CHEMOTHERAPY AND THE PILL DOUBLED THE SURVIVAL, SO WHILE IT'S NOT A CURE, THAT DOESN'T FIX EVERYONE WITH THE CANCER, IT GIVES A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO LIVE LONGER WITH GREAT QUALITY OF LIFE.

TED: WE'VE DONE SO MANY STORIES ON PANCREATIC CANCER, THE PROBLEM IS IT'S FOUND SO LATE.

IF THIS WERE ADMINISTERED EARLY ON, WOULD IT MAKE A BIGGER DIFFERENCE?

>> A HUGE GAME CHANGER, BREAST CANCER, WHERE YOU HAVE A MAMMOGRAM, COLON CANCER, YOU HAVE COLONOSCOPIES AND OTHER TESTS, HAVING A TEST FOR PANCREATIC CANCER WHERE YOU CATCH IT IN STAGE 1 AND STAGE 2, TO TAKE SUCH A PROMISING PILL THAT CAN HELP AND BRING IT TO EARLY STAGE OR MAYBE BEFORE THE CANCER IS FULL-BLOWN COULD BE A HUGE GAME CHANGER AND WHERE WE CAN TALK ABOUT CURE.

TED: YOU CAN SEE THE GENE MUTATION BEFORE SYMPTOMS SHOW OR RESULTS AND TEST RESULTS SHOW?

>> WE'RE GETTING THERE.

THERE'S A LOT OF RESEARCH THAT HONORHEALTH AND OTHER INSTITUTIONS ARE WORKING ON IN EARLY DETECTION.

TED: CHEMO, OBVIOUSLY, HAS SIDE EFFECTS.

ANY SIDE EFFECTS WITH THIS PARTICULAR DRUG?

>> THERE ARE SIDE EFFECTS WITH THE PILL.

BEING IN ARIZONA, THE SUN WILL CAUSE A RASH.

THE HEAT CAN ALSO CAUSE A RASH IN A LOT OF PEOPLE TAKING THIS PILL.

THANKFULLY THERE'S WAYS TO MANAGE THAT.

WE SEE OTHER SIDE EFFECTS SUCH AS DIARRHEA AND MOUTH SORES, BUT THINGS WE THINK ABOUT WITH CHEMOTHERAPY, HAIR LOSS, BAD NAUSEA AND VOMITING, WE DON'T REALLY SEE THAT WITH THE PILL BY ITSELF, AND ALSO, WHEN YOU LOOK AT YOUR BLOOD COUNTS AND KIDNEY FUNCTION, THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE AS AFFECTED.

TED: INTERESTING, IT TARGETS THE GENE MUTATION FOR PANCREATIC CANCER, CAN THIS FORMULA BE USED FOR OTHER CANCERS?

SEEMS LIKE IT COULD BE USED FOR OTHER CANCERS?

>> THIS MUTATION OCCURS IN 30% OF ALL CANCERS, THEY ARE TESTING THIS PILL IN OTHER CANCERS AS WE SPEAK.

TED: AND WHAT ARE THE TRIALS LOOKING LIKE SO FAR, DO WE KNOW?

>> THEY LOOK PROMISING.

THE GREAT THING ABOUT THE PILL, IT UNLOCKS COMBINATION TREATMENTS, THINGS LIKE THE IMMUNE SYSTEM, IMMUNOTHERAPY WORKS GREAT IN COMBINATION WITH THE PILL.

TED: WE TALKED ABOUT THE ADVANCEMENTS WITH THIS, ARE THERE OTHER ADVANCEMENTS ON THE WAY?

ANYTHING ELSE GOING ON?

>> EARLY DETECTION IS THE NEXT FRONTIER, IF WE CAN FIND A WAY TO CATCH PANCREATIC CANCER EARLIER, MOST PEOPLE ARE DIAGNOSED IN THE ADVANCED METASTASIZED SITUATION, THAT'S THE NEXT FRONTIER.

TED: AGAIN, IT HAS TO BE MORE THAN HAVE YOU THIS PARTICULAR MUTATION?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

IDENTIFYING PEOPLE IS THE START, WHO'S AT RISK, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY MASS SCREENING, WHETHER IT'S A BLOOD TEST, YOU GO TO THE PRIMARY CARE DOCTOR, HERE'S A BLOOD TEST, ANOTHER IMAGING TEST THAT IS SPECIFIC TO CATCH PANCREAS CANCER EARLY IS THE KEY.

TED: TIMETABLE, WHEN IT IS AVAILABLE, FDA APPROVAL SUGGESTS IT'S ON THE WAY, AND HOW MUCH IS IT GOING TO COST?

>> BECAUSE THE FDA APPROVAL, ONCOLOGISTS CAN WRITE FOR IT AS WE SPEAK, INSURANCE IS AUTHORIZING IT IN THE APPROPRIATE SITUATION, MEANING IF THE INDIVIDUAL HAS TO HAVE STAGE 4 PANCREAS CANCER, HAVE TO BE AT LEAST ELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE THIS PILL.

TED: YEAH, STILL PRETTY COSTLY.

>> CAN BE COSTLY WITHOUT INSURANCE, RUNS 45,000 WITHOUT INSURANCE.

TED: WOW!

INSURANCE KNOCKS THAT DOWN A LOT?

>> KNOCKS IT DOWN.

FOR MOST OF MY PATIENTS I'VE SEEN ZERO PAYMENT.

TED: IT'S GREAT TO SEE THE RESULTS.

>> GREAT TO SEE THE PROGRESS.

TED: YOU ARE ALL SMILES.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

.

TED: A NEW STUDY FINDS NEW INFORMATION ABOUT HOW SWEAT COOLS THE BODY IN HOT, DRY PLACES LIKE ARIZONA.

THE RESEARCH FOUND PHYSICAL PROCESS THAT CAN CHANGE THE EVAPORATION LEVELS OF SWEAT LEAVING THE SKIN BY 50%.

KONRAD RYKACZEWSKI JOINS US NOW, AND YOU'VE GOT A DISCONNECTED LIMB THERE ON THE TABLE, WE'LL GET TO THAT IN A SECOND.

YOUR RESEARCH IS IN THE MECHANICS OF SWEATING?

>> ONE OF THE TOPICS WE LOOK AT WITH THE BROADER UMBRELLA OF UNDERSTANDING HOW WE EXCHANGE HEAT WITH THE ENVIRONMENT IS SWEAT EVAPORATION, AND IN GENERAL, OUR PRIMARY MECHANISM AGAINST OVERHEATING.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND HOW IN DIFFERENT CONDITIONS SWEAT EVAPORATES.

TED: AND IN DIFFERENT CONDITIONS MEANING HUMIDITY, DRY CONDITIONS, IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE?

>> MAKES ENORMOUS DIFFERENCE.

THE KEY PART IS THAT SWEAT EVAPORATION IS DRIVEN BY THE DIFFERENCE IN THE VAPOR PRESSURE OF YOUR SKIN, AND IN THE ENVIRONMENT.

THE BIGGER THE DIFFERENCE, THE MORE IT EVAPORATES.

THE SECOND PART IS HOW MUCH AIR FLOW YOU HAVE NEXT TO YOUR SKIN, AND THERE ARE TWO WAYS THAT CAN HAPPEN.

FIRST, YOU CAN HAVE FLOW FROM WIND, OR IN CONDITIONS LIKE WE'RE SITTING HERE NOW, THERE IS BASICALLY NO AIR FLOW AND YOUR BODY GENERATES ITS OWN BUOYANCY.

TED: INTERESTING.

INTERESTING.

I WAS READING ABOUT THIS.

SOUNDS LIKE AS THE AIR CLOSE TO THE SKIN COOLS, IT GETS DENSER AND IT GOES DOWNWARD, CORRECT?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

SO IN GENERAL WHEN WE THINK OF, THIS IS CALLED PRECONVECTION NEXT TO THE BODY, OR BUOYANCY, THE AIR IS COOLER THAN YOUR BODY, SO YOUR BODY HEATS UP THE AIR, IT GETS LIGHTER AND GOES UP.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT A CANDLE, YOU HAVE THE SMOKE GOING OUT ON TOP, THE SAME THING, THE AIR IS HOTTER SO IT GOES UP.

IN ARIZONA, WHEN WE GO OUTSIDE, THE AIR IS VERY OFTEN WARMER THAN YOUR BODY, SO YOUR SKIN THEN COOLS THE AIR LIKE YOU SAID, IT COMES DENSER AND GOES DOWN, AND THAT'S WHAT WE UNDERSTOOD ABOUT THIS PROCESS SO FAR.

HOWEVER, WHEN WE FOUND OUT THIS IS ANOTHER PROCESS THAT CONTRIBUTES TO THE BUOYANCY.

TED: TALK TO US ABOUT THAT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SO IT'S RELATIVELY WELL-KNOWN IN ENGINEERING THAT BUOYANCY EFFECTIVELY, DENSITY OF AIR CAN BE IMPACTED BY WATER VAPOR IN THE AIR, AND IT TURNS OUT THAT WHEN YOU MAKE DRY AIR MORE HUMID, IT GETS LIGHTER.

SO AS YOU END UP SWEATING AND EVAPORATING INTO THE VERY DRY AIR, YOU MAKE THE AIR LIGHTER AND AT THE SAME TIME YOUR SKIN IS COOLER SO TRYING TO MAKE IT DENSER, AND THERE'S A COMPETITION BETWEEN THESE TWO PROCESSES.

TED: YES.

>> AND HOW THEY IMPACT THE BUOYANCY.

TURNS OUT AT ABOUT 104 DEGREES AND 10% HUMIDITY, HALF OF THE YEAR HERE, THE TWO PROCESSES CANCEL EACH OTHER, AND YOU EFFECTIVELY NEUTRALIZE THE FLOW AROUND YOUR BODY WHICH CAN DEPRESS HOW MUCH YOU EVAPORATE BY OVER HALF.

TED: WHOA.

THAT DOESN'T SOUND VERY GOOD.

WHERE DOES CLOTHING FIT INTO ALL THIS?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

IN GENERAL, IF YOU'RE IN 104 DEGREES OUTSIDE, YOU'RE GOING TO BE PRETTY SOAKED WITHIN ABOUT HALF HOUR OF BEING THERE, SO EFFECTIVELY YOUR CLOTHES BECOME THE EXTERIOR HAVE THE EVAPORATION OCCURS.

THIS TRANSLATES PRETTY CLOSELY TO WHETHER YOU ARE NUDE, LIKE WE DO THE EXPERIMENTS WITH THE NUDE MANNEQUIN, ONCE YOU PUT CLOTHES ON THEM, THEY SATURATE AND IT BECOMES -- OF COURSE THERE'S A LITTLE NUANCE THERE.

TED: SPEAKING OF THE MANNEQUIN, HIS NAME IS ANDY THE MANNEQUIN.

>> ANDY MANNEQUIN, AND HE COULDN'T MAKE IT.

TED: HE MADE IT A LITTLE BIT.

>> WE BROUGHT A LIMB, AND AS YOU CAN SEE, IT'S EFFECTIVELY AN ADULT MALE-SHAPED MANNEQUIN THAT IS HEAVILY INSTRUMENTED.

HE DOESN'T HAVE GUTS INSIDE, BUT HE IS A SHELL THAT DOES EVERYTHING THERMALLY THAT A HUMAN BODY DOES, AND WE TAKE THAT INFORMATION HOW MUCH HEAT GOES OUT OF BODY AND USE MODELS OF THE INSIDE OF THE BODY AND THERMAL REGULATION SYSTEM TO PREDICT HOW PEOPLE WOULD RESPOND.

TED: WE COULD SEE HE'S GOT PORES RIGHT THERE.

>> YES.

HE HAS ABOUT 140 SWEAT PORES, WE HAVE 2 MILLION.

THERE'S A LITTLE DISCONNECT TO.

BRIDGE THE GAP, WE SPREAD IT LIKE WOOD ON THE SKIN.

TED: LAST QUESTION, WHY IS THE RESEARCH IMPORTANT?

>> WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO PREDICT HOW, IN DIFFERENT CONDITIONS, DIFFERENT PEOPLE REACT TO EXTREME HEAT AND WHAT TO DO WITH IT AND HOW MUCH IT HELPS.

IN THIS CASE, THE MESSAGE IS THERE IS VERY LITTLE AIR FLOW, YOU ARE GOING TO OVERHEAT SUBSTANTIALLY QUICKER THAN WE THOUGHT.

SO ADDING AIR FLOW IS CRITICAL TO AREAS THAT ARE WARM AND ALSO PARTIALLY SHELTERED FROM THE WIND.

TED: VERY GOOD.

KONRAD RYKACZEWSKI, ASU ENGINEERING PROFESSOR, AND YOU GOT ANDY'S APPENDAGE THERE.

GOOD INFORMATION, GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING THIS.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

A PLEASURE.

TED: AND THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.