-I'm an ex teacher, so I did a -!worksheet, gave them all pens.

-PowerPoint presentation, -and I, you know, ask them a -question, go round, you know, -!and what's the best thing about -!age and what's the worst thing -!about aging?

And what I noticed -!was that all of us had different -!symptoms.

Some had night sweats.

-!I never had night sweats.

Some -had hot flushes.

Some people -didn't have hot flushes.

-Somebody had really aching -joints.

I was fine, but we -started the conversations.

-!Age is a funny thing, or rather, -we are funny about it.

Some -!people straight up lie about how -old they are.

Some people -!whisper about it in rooms where -!only a few others are in earshot -!like it's a dirty little secret.

-But if you're lucky, aging is -something you face the Karen -Arthur way, are you 61 years -old?

Do I have that correct?

-!Oh, 63 baby.

Don't take my years -away.

-UK based, Karen Arthur -wears a lot of hats.

She's a -mother, a school teacher, a -fashion model.

She also hosts -Joy retreats for women.

She's -!written a children's book, and -!through it all, she's never been -in the business of hiding her -age or really anything about -!herself anymore.

And there's one -topic, one touchy topic for a -lot of women and people with -!ovaries that Karen faces pretty -!head on through her work, little -!did everyone know soon you would -!be talking about vaginal dryness -!and hot lashes and night sweats -to the whole world, they have -that to look forward to -learning.

-!Yeah, it's funny.

My mum still -!doesn't know what I do, and it's -fine.

In fact, when I talk to -her about what she calls the -change, -!she just thinks it's funny that -change we're talking about is -!menopause.

I haven't entered my -menopause era yet, but it's -!coming for me soon enough.

And -!friends of mine have described -!it as such a drastic change to -!their bodies that it feels like -!a whole other puberty of sorts.

-!And black friends of mine have -gone as far as to call it the -grand erasure, a time in your -!life when you go from a person -!who already isn't fully seen by -!society, by the medical field, -by the Eurocentric gaze of -!beauty to nearly invisible.

But -!Karen sees it as so much more.

-She sees it as a catalyst for -!deeper conversations about the -ways we generalize and -!experience aging.

So on top of -!everything else, She's the host -of her own podcast called -!menopause.

Whilst black on her -show, she's opening up a long -overdue and frankly often -!ignored conversation about the -intersectionality of racism, -aging and menopause, -!people love to overlook racism.

-!Like when you Google the stress -!there's a stress measurement or -something.

It's like you get -points for if you've moved -!house, or you've had a death in -the family, or you've had a -!divorce, nowhere on that.

Does -it say racism?

Well, -!from Vermont public this is home -!goings, a show that invites you -to eavesdrop on candid -conversations with people who -!will challenge what you think.

-You know, I'm Myra Flynn, and -!today a conversation with Karen -Arthur, a former teacher, -!author, mother, podcaster, and a -woman who is aging loudly as -you'll hear today, there is -nothing invisible about Karen -now, though it wasn't always -that way.

She's overcome -domestic abuse, mental health -!issues and generational cycles -!of trauma to arrive where she is -!today, 63 black in the midst of -!menopause and fabulous.

This is -her journey, and this is -!homegoings.

We're a proud member -of the NPR Network.

Welcome -home.

-Here in the States, we say so -!often as black women, like, oh, -!like, we cannot meet this, like, -!Eurocentric beauty standard.

And -we call it the Eurocentric -beauty standard, but you're -!actually, like, over in Europe, -!just wondering, like, as a black -!woman, like, when did you when -!did you figure out, well, damn, -like I'm beautiful.

-!Oh gosh, there's a lot of layers -to the question.

I've always -!loved fashion, and I've always -loved style, and I've always -!been told I was beautiful, but -!believing it is another thing i.

-!Actually, I didn't really come -!into my own until my early 50s -!and maybe mid 50s, and it's been -!a long journey getting here, I -!would say, because even I'm so -!confident now, whereas before, -my confidence was on the -outside.

So in a sense, -clothing, wearing clothing, -choosing fashionable, stylish -!clothes, form fitting clothes, -you know, power suits, heels, -!all the things, was an outward -representation, but it didn't -touch the sides of how I was -!feeling inside, whereas when I -!had to go down to come up, you -know?

So I it's been a long -!journey.

Yeah, it's been, it's -been a very long journey, and -!it's not been linear.

And in in -the grand scheme of things, -there's an assumption that I, -!I've always been this way, and I -absolutely have not.

-I think about other women who -are in their 60s that I know -!that don't necessarily feel, you -know, as beautiful or as as -visible, and as you as you do -!and and so, yeah, we were going -!to dive into some of that secret -!sauce.

But before we, before we -go there, I'm, curious about -!your life.

I guess I know that -it hasn't always been fashion -shows and story books and you -!know, life by the sea.

So what -happened when your life was -!looking like very conventional -and what was that life like?

-!I was with my ex partner for 20 -years.

Exactly 20 years, -actually, we had to beautify, -have two beautiful children, -!daughters.

We had a nice house -!in in the capital, you know, in -!London, I had a good job.

He had -!a good job.

We had a couple of -!holidays a year, two cars, all -the things, you know, looked -!good, you know, in the pictures, -!but the behind closed doors, it -!was a very different story.

And -I feel that his insecurities -!were taken out on me.

I suppose -it's interesting.

I I've been -!little bit irky, because abuse -is abuse, and I, whilst it -!wasn't physical abuse, the man -never laid hands on me.

The -!other side to that is that kept -me with him for longer than -maybe needed be.

Everything -!happens the way it's supposed to -happen.

I understand all of -!that, but my reasoning was, he -doesn't hit me, and therefore -!everything's okay.

And I didn't -actually own I found it very -difficult to see myself as a -!person who's an abuse survivor, -!and it's a conversation I've had -!with my daughters as well.

You -know that, yeah, I need it -wasn't until I realized, oh, -!that's what was going on, that I -!started to heal, actually, and -started to, you know, took -!myself to therapy and stuff like -!that.

But I dismissed a lot of -stuff because of the outward, -the outward persona of our -!relationship.

We looked great we -you know, if you saw us in a -!restaurant, or you saw us on a -!ski slope or, you know, wherever -we were, we looked like the -!perfect couple, but it was more.

-It was, um, mental abuse.

It -!wasn't even verbal.

I would say -!it was, well, it was verbal in -!the sense that he would put me -down, and I didn't realize he -!was but he would make jokes at -!my expense, bring me right back -!down to earth, and I never felt -!I could celebrate my many gifts -!and talents and strengths, and -it wasn't a friend of mine -described my persona when he -!walked in the room as dimming my -!light just dimmed, and I'm not -about to do that anymore.

-!No, you're not.

There's nothing, -!nothing dim about your light now -you -!we all know that mental health -!doesn't it doesn't go away, it -!doesn't get better on its own.

-!You have to do something about -it.

And so seven years later, -!that came and bit me in the bum.

-You know, literally what -!happened a couple of years after -!we split up, I had a really bad -!toothache, and the toothache, I -!now realize, estrogen, even your -!body, perimenopause, can have a -!detrimental effect on your gum -!health.

Off.

I didn't know this -at the time.

I -didn't even know that either, -right?

It's true.

Look after -!your teeth.

Guys floss.

And I, I -!ended up at the dentist with the -abscess and had a tooth taken -!out and what?

So I had time off -!work, of course.

And then when -!the painkillers started to wear -!off and I was due to go back to -!work.

I was in so much pain, I -!ended up, ending up going to the -!doctors, and the doctor signed -!me off for a week.

So that was -the first time that I thought -something's not quite right.

-!Five years later, it came back -!with full force.

I remember 2014 -!September so that we've all gone -!back to school.

The girls have -!gone to uni.

My eldest is gone -back after a sabbatical.

My -!youngest has started.

I've got -the house to myself now.

-!First time you're on your own in -your home by yourself.

-Yeah, I got, I'm, I think I'm -!gonna love it, you know?

I can -run around naked.

I'll know -!where everything is, all the all -!my clothes will be in the right -place, you know?

And I -absolutely hated it after two -!days, I was like, the house is -really quiet.

I do not like -this.

It's getting colder and -darker, and my boiler breaks.

-And the for the first time I -!have to look at my life, because -!I've got nothing else to do.

You -!know, I get up, I go to work, I -work, I work, I work, I come -!home, I do some more work, I go -to bed, I go up and do it all -!over again.

And I looked at my -life and I was like, I don't -!like this.

If I get run over by -a bus tomorrow, I'm gonna die -unhappy, but I couldn't see a -way out.

-I'm just curious what was -!officially going on, like, how -!do you name it?

Was it a mental -breakdown?

Was it was, -!I call it a breakthrough, but it -!was, you know, on paper, it's a -breakdown.

At that point, I -hadn't I didn't have a -!diagnosis, but I knew something -wasn't quite right.

I wasn't -!given, offered any medication or -anything like that.

I also, I -!also knew that I was having hot -!flushes.

I knew that my periods -!had stopped.

So in the back of -my head, I know something's -!going on with menopause, but I'm -more worried about the fact I -can't do my job.

I've been -!forgetting to go to meetings.

My -!brain is, you know, foggy, and -!the job that I could had always -!been able to do I couldn't do, -you know, so all of those -!things, I wasn't looking after -myself.

I didn't care for the -!way that I looked.

I didn't care -!for I'd lost my creative spark.

-!I stopped sewing, which is huge.

-I was existing.

I was simply -existing.

-!I told people, some people that -!I was going to be interviewing -you, and so many women had -!questions about like, what does -!menopause feel like?

I'm putting -two and two together while -talking to you this breakdown -!breakthrough also had menopause -!written all over it.

And so when -you talk about like the brain -!fog and the depression and the -!lack of Spark and creativity, is -!this some of the stuff and your -teeth?

Is your teeth -!deteriorating?

Is this some of -the stuff that comes with -!perimenopause, with the onset of -menopause.

-!I always say because people ask -!me this a lot.

How do you know -!you're in perimenopause?

How do -!you know it's starting?

All of -my information about my own -perimenopause and menopause -journey is, in retrospect, I -didn't know what was going on -whilst it was happening, -!perimenopause wasn't a word I'd -ever heard of.

I now realize -!that, you know, perimenopause, -!estrogen starts to decline, and -estrogen affects every single -part of your body.

And one of -!the things that's important to -pay attention to is not just -your gum health, but skin -changes, changes in your gut -!health, your periods go berserk.

-!You know, you might be someone -who's always had really light -periods, and then they decide -you can start flooding.

It's, -!it's, you know.

So I always tell -!people, you'll have, you know, a -!six week cycle than a two week -cycle.

This is the thing.

We -don't pay attention enough to -!what is going on with our body.

-So we self medicate.

So we -!think, Oh, it must be, I don't -!know.

We we make things better -!by shopping, drinking, you know, -!but we actually know what needs -to happen.

Just that we don't -we.

We've lost the ability to -trust our intuition and trust -!ourselves, and we have all the -answers in our head, in the -!sense that we know that we need -to go to the doctors, but we -don't have time to go to the -!doctors, because we've got to do -this for somebody else, and -!we've got to do work.

And do you -see what I mean?

So we'd pull -!that stuff off.

So for me, mine -started at 39 and it was the -year before my 40th birthday, -and I thought I was having an -existential crisis.

And -actually, I just felt out of -!sorts, and I thought it was me.

-!In fact, I thought I was being -!ungrateful, because, for what?

-!Because I've got a nice house, -!I've got a car, I've got a good -job, I've got a roof over my -!head.

I don't have to think of, -you know, I've got beautiful -!children, I'm intelligent, I've -!got all the things.

How dare I -!feel out of sorts.

That's how I -felt.

And so I didn't do -anything.

I just, I'm in the -middle of that.

My partner is -!doing what he's doing, and I'm, -!I think it's me.

I need to buy -!some sexy lingerie, and I need -!to spice it up in the bedroom.

-You know, I put it all on me.

-It's exhausting.

I don't know -!how, honestly, I was exhausted -trying to think of that, but -!that's what happened.

And so you -fight that.

You fight that -feeling by working harder, -!taking yourself on a little spa -!break, getting your nails done, -!you know.

But actually what you -need, and what I needed, was -time to re evaluate.

And what -depression did was it lit me -!down, so I didn't have a choice.

-Do you see?

What is it?

Not -here?

You must feel the body -keeps school.

All of those -things hit me at 5152 -wow, you know.

And it was -necessary, -absolutely necessary.

-!Hello and welcome to menopause.

-Was black the podcast.

We are -!the podcast that is committed to -sharing the stories of black -people in any stage of -menopause.

Your -podcast is called menopause -!whilst black.

I'm very curious -!about the black aspect of this -because you know, you scroll -!through your phone to call for -!help and you didn't want to talk -to your mom about going to -therapy or this breakdown, I -!don't know.

I just feel such a -sense of having to keep it -together all the time.

As a -!black woman, I just wonder, is -!there something different going -on for black women with this -onset of menopause, 100% -it's so layered, I don't know -where to start that.

I mean, -when I realized I was going -!through the menopause, I started -!to Google my symptoms.

I don't -recommend that to anybody, -!especially at three o'clock in -the morning when you're -!desperate.

One thing, I noticed -what there were so many so I -thought I was dying.

And -secondly, that I didn't see -anybody who looked like me -!talking about menopause, so all -the people talking about -menopause, or all the images -were of old women, old white -!women.

This is very important, -!with blonde, gray hair in a bob, -slightly longer than mine, -!wearing beige this is important -!with their heads in their hands, -wow.

And so subliminally, I'm -like, oh.

And I've spoken to -black women who said they -thought menopause was a white -!women's disease, because we, and -we, we buy into that.

What's -!that awful phrase, Black don't -!crack, which is just rubbish, I -you know, and that is about -esthetically.

But there's -!something about that phrase that -!is also well, you can't have a -breakdown.

You cannot not be -!strong.

The strong black woman -!trope does not serve us because, -!listen, I was brought up by my -!mother, single mother four kids.

-I'm the oldest of four, and I -!have always been the person who -!does all the things looked after -!the kids.

Went to uni.

I'm a bit -!of a I just do it.

I just get on -!with it, you know.

But I watched -!my mum get on with it, and she -!watched her mum get on with it.

-!So where is the, you know, where -!is the, I don't know, the trope -!that says you can be soft, you -can be easeful, you can -!surrender.

You can let somebody -!else go on there.

And this is a -problem for me these days, -!because I find it really hard to -ask for help.

I.

It's got the -!differences.

I recognize it at -!this point, I'm still at work, -and I'm still trying to get -!better, to go back to work, and -I think that bit's important, -!because I wasn't trying to get -better.

It was all about the -grind.

Yeah, get back to -work, right, right?

Because -!what else am I going to do?

How -!else am I going to look after my -kids like there's no choice -here?

I now know that I'm the -!kind of person if you don't give -me a choice, I come out -!fighting.

You know, if I feel I -!don't have a choice, or if you -!tell me I have to do something -!these days, I'm not going to do -it unless you give me a very -!good reason.

But in those days, -I felt I had no choice, you -know?

So I started in my -!research, and I find out, I read -!the swan report, which says that -!black women in the Global North -!start our menopause 8.5 months -!and up to two years earlier than -!our white counterparts.

And I'm -like, I'm sorry, what -I read that as well.

I was -checking that out ahead of -talking to you, and I had no -idea.

And I'm, yeah, super -!curious.

There seemed to be so -!many theories about why that is, -yeah, -and no one knows, because the -!research hasn't been done.

The -!research for menopause is in its -!infancy, and people still don't -know black women still don't -!know this.

Now my own theories -are around, you know, racial -weathering, the you know, -!allostatic load, and how living -!in a racist, white supremacist -!society has a negative effect on -!our physical outcomes.

All you -have to do is put, put into -!Google or your, you know, chosen -!search engine, black women and -!and what comes up, Alzheimer's, -!mental health outcome, all the -!outcomes ours are worse or black -!people and, and so it incensed -me that, at the same time, I -!didn't start the podcast.

Then, -you know, I started to talk -about it to my black friends, -girlfriends.

I invited them -around to sit in my kitchen -!table and talk about, you know, -menopause, and I'm an ex -!teacher.

So I did a worksheet, -gave -!them all, of course, PowerPoint -presentation, and -I, you know, ask them a -question, go round, you know, -!and what's the best thing about -!age, and what's the worst thing -!about aging?

And what I noticed -!was that all of us had different -!symptoms.

Some had night sweats.

-!I never had night sweats.

Some -had hot flushes.

Some people -didn't have hot flushes.

-Somebody had really aching -joints.

I was fine, you know, -but we started the -!conversations, and I guess that -was the prerequisite for the -podcast.

The podcast came in -2020 when George Floyd was -murdered and Amy Cooper -!weaponized her white tears, I'm -!being threatened by a man in the -ramble.

Please send the cards -immediately.

And that was the -point.

The other point that -!flipped everything on its head -!was like, Oh, well, I can't be -!quiet.

So I did a survey asking -black British women to share -!their experiences in menopause.

-And I remember there was no -!research about that at all.

The -reason so many people, I -!believe, filled in my survey was -that they were thrilled to be -asked.

And that is reflected.

-!It's like no one's asked me this -before.

We are overlooked or -assumed, you know.

And the -research needs to be nuanced, -!because black women, South Asian -women, people from different -parts of the world experience -!menopause in different ways.

And -!you cannot lump us all together, -you know.

And I have to say, -!people love to overlook racism, -!like when you google this, the -stress, there's a stress -!measurement or something.

It's -!like, um, you get points for if -you've moved house, or you've -had a death in the family, or -!you've had a divorce.

Nowhere on -that.

Does it say racism?

-Because that's the overlying -thing.

You know, it's -the biggest stress, it's the -!biggest loss, it's the biggest, -yeah, it's the biggest death.

-Sometimes that can go on -!internally, right?

Absolutely.

-!And this is affecting, you know, -how we are able to live, how -long we are able to live, the -!quality of our life.

It's, it's -!huge.

And so I just felt angry -!and perplexed that people didn't -know -!that the wonderful thing about -!menopause was black.

It provides -a safe.

Base for people black -people who are socialized as -!women, to feel seen and heard, -and I and that's hugely -important, and I caused it.

I -called it menopause whilst -black, because I was going -through menopause.

And I'm -black, and I'm so apologetic -!about that, and I have had white -!women say, Can I listen?

Which I -think is the most stupid -!question ever.

Like, I own the -flipping airwaves, like, calm -down, but the flip that over.

-!What do I ever say to, you know, -!to podcast with two white women?

-Oh, can I listen?

No, -you just because that's the -!standard of everything we listen -to and watch, yeah, -!this is my life, my dear, this -!is my life.

It's so hard being -!fabulous.

Yes, no, yeah, that's, -!that's a strange question.

But -!like, but like, do they listen -white women, yeah, yeah.

-!Why?

They're learning something, -you know, and I think that's -important we, we, yes, it's -important for black people, -!socializes, you know, women, but -it's also important for -!everybody.

Diversity is not this -thing where only one, only a -!certain person, can listen to a -certain thing or do a certain -thing.

You know, diversity -!benefits everyone, which is why -!the political situation we're in -!now, where you are and where I -!am, just feels wild, because the -!short sightedness, you know is, -is it baffles me.

It really -doesn't baffle me.

I know -exactly what's going on.

-Yeah, right, but I see what -you're saying.

Like, you're -!like, Yeah, I think that's the -thing a diverse world, and -especially one where black -people feel safe, who are -!historically treated the worst -!in the world, means everybody's -!being heard, everybody's being -treated better, everybody's -having more opportunity.

This -thing about us starting -menopause earlier and not -knowing why.

Well, I tell you -!what I would like my message to -all women, but particularly -!women of color, black women, is -!we need to look after ourselves -first, earlier.

The reason my -!menopause hit me the way it did -!is because I did not look after -myself.

I did not think I was -worthy.

I put all my energies -into looking after everybody -!else, particularly my children, -when when I split from my -partner, but having the -!opportunity, because that's what -depression was.

That's what -menopause was.

As awful as it -was the opportunity to really -!sit down, sit my backside down, -and get very, very quiet, -everything literally flipped -!upside down.

But I had no choice -!but to go quiet, because, yeah, -!I didn't have a choice.

I didn't -!have a job.

I was fun, employed, -!you know, I didn't love my life.

-!Whatever I'd been doing before -!wasn't working, so I had to flip -everything on its head.

And I -vowed to myself that if I was -!going to live for another 3040, -maybe 50 years that I would -curate my life, doing things -!that I love, and I've stuck to -!that.

And it doesn't mean that -!every day is a, you know, fairy -!tale day.

Far from it.

I still -have to send emails.

I still -!have to cook for myself.

Someone -come cook for me, please.

-!However, my I do the things that -!align with my values.

I go where -!the joy is as much as I can, and -I let go of that feeling of -!scarcity because I lean into a -!feeling of what is for me, will -!not pass me by, and everything -!is temporary.

This what you're -!worrying about now you're going -!to laugh about in a year's time.

-!I hope.

You know, I think, as we -!age, people who are socialized -as women are encouraged to go -!very quiet and become invisible.

-!And we, we lose because we we're -!not seen as conventionally sexy, -or we can't have kids.

People -think that we just need to -!disappear.

You know, don't have -!an opinion.

Well, I'm older and -I'm wiser and I'm louder and -have more knowledge and more -!experience, I am not going to be -quiet.

-!Thanks so much for joining us.

-!If you want to continue to be a -!part of the homegoings family, -!stay in touch@homegoings.co and -subscribe to the homegoings -podcast wherever you listen, -take good care you.