Funding for New Mexico in Focus is provided by: Viewers Like You >>Nash: This week on New Mexico in Focus Albuquerque Mayor Tim Keller secures a third term after a huge turn out for the city's runoff election.

>>Keller: You chose to demonstrate to stand up for the city that we love.

Thank you so much, Albuquerque!

God bless!

>>Nash: And we take you to Chaco Canyon for reaction to the Trump administration's push to rollback protections from oil and gas extraction.

New Mexico in Focus starts now Thanks for joining us this week I'm Nash Jones.

Election season 2025 has officially come to a close, after Albuquerque voters went back to the polls to vote for mayor and two city council seats in Tuesday's runoff election.

We are going to spend the bulk of this week's episode hashing out what happened and what it means for the state's largest city moving forward.

But that is not all we have for you.

Last week, we brought you a sneak peak of a story from in Focus reporter Cailley Chella delving into oil and gas, sacred land, and a temporary ten-mile buffer zone around Chaco Canyon that some feel doesn't go far enough.

We'll bring you that story in full tonight.

Also, a new property tax bill may be sitting on your desk, or your landlord's, for that matter, its based on how much the County Assessor believes your home is worth and you've only got a few weeks left to dispute it.

In Bernalillo County, Assessor Damian Lara, says property owners can trust that the dollar figure he has come up with is fair and accurate.

His office has integrated some new research into how it makes those calls, and I'm going to ask Lara about it later in the show.

But first, the big politics story of the week.

The Albuquerque Runoff Elections Mayor Tim Keller beat his challenger, former Bernalillo County Sheriff Karen White, by nearly 20,000 votes, 58% to 42.

More than 128,000 voters cast ballots for mayor, and about 100 voters decided not to weigh in on that race, but still cast a ballot for city council.

Overall, turnout was high, especially for a runoff, with 33% of eligible voters going to the polls, which is nearly as many as the regular election in November and significantly more than the city's last Mayoral Runoff when Keller beat Dan Lewis in 2017.

This week, we were there to see Keller absorb a lot of that positive energy at his election night watch party.

We also stood by as White took the podium less than an hour after polls closed and before Election day numbers had even posted, to concede.

>>White: I called Mayor Keller just a little bit ago and I congratulated him on the win.

[Dissapointment from crowd] >>Supporter: What!

>>White: We pray -- We pray -- We pray that this reminds Mayor Keller to stay focused on the issues that matter most to the people of Albuquerque.

Yes, we are disappointed by the results, but we respect their choice.

We came up short, but our call for change and a better quality of life should resonate long and wide.

>>Keller: But tonight, the city has spoken!

And it's folks have essentially said one thing loud and clear.

They want us to keep going!

[Crowd cheering] >>Keller: That's right!

Seven people have tried to bring us down.

It's not lost on anyone here.

And of course, for the last six weeks, it was just one person.

Today, we stood in defiance of efforts that were done to try and divide us and to try and turn us back.

Whether it was President or whether it was a former sheriff.

Tonight we stood up for Albuquerque.

[Crowd cheering] >>Nash: We have got a pair of former city councilors to help us break down what happened after the field narrowed to two in the mayoral runoff, and how things played out on the city council level as well.

Greg Payne and Eric Griego served in the city's legislative body together a couple of decades ago.

Griego has since left the Democratic Party, and Payne is no longer a Republican.

Let's get into it.

>> Nash: Greg, Eric, thanks so much for joining us on New Mexico In Focus.

I want to start with you, Eric.

It was, a pretty significant showing by Keller, about 16 percentage points over White.

Was that a more significant win than you were expecting?

>> Griego: Yes, absolutely.

I mean, I, I I'm not, I don't claim to be a pundit, but I thought it was going to be, you know, a big win, but a single digit win.

But I, I think, my own take on it was, was, it was kind of a referendum on Trump more than anything.

And I think the, the messaging that, that Darren White sort of came out with sounded too much like Trump.

And, you know, this is a this is a pretty blue city.

You know, Kamala Harris won it overwhelmingly.

And I just think that, I actually think that if white had sort of gotten more sort of moderate in his positions, as opposed to sort of coming out with the guns blazing, you know, he might.

Yeah.

And, you know, he was sort of an avatar for Trump.

And I think that's that's what a lot of people showed up.

You know, they didn't want a local version of Trump I think so.

>> Nash: And Greg, you you predicted this outcome.

What gave you that idea that it was going to be this spread out.

>> Payne: And first of all, thanks for having me, Nash, and thanks to you and Jeff.

And it's really good to see my friend Eric Griego.

We used to do battle back in the day, but, I'm looking forward to hopefully, you know, an enlightening and, maybe sometimes feisty, but definitely friendly conversation.

but back to your question Nash.

That wasn't tough to get.

I mean, it wasn't you know, I don't practice Santeria.

I don't have a crystal ball.

I looked at the numbers on the early vote, and it was 51% Democrat, 36% Republican, with about 13% independent.

Based on that, I had to make an assumption.

And the assumption was, is the Democrat vote an anti Keller vote?

Or as Eric said, an anti-Trump vote?

Well, it was definitely an anti-Trump vote the Democrats are going to vote for for Keller, the Republicans were going to vote for, for white and then the independents.

The question was, what did they do?

And I felt because of how weak he was in the initial sander off poll, meaning Keller.

And I don't think he did very well in the initial, runoff, 64% of the voters voted for someone who wasn't named Keller >> Nash: in the initial election >> Payne: In the initial election?

Thanks, Nash.

No, you're absolutely right.

But with the independents, I felt like they would cut a little bit more for Darren.

So I just gave him, you know, seven percentage points the other six over two to Tim.

So 5743.

And it just happened to go my way.

Yeah.

This time it doesn't always go that way.

>> Nash: Well Eric when you were on before the regular local election or rather after, you were talking about the Uballez vote and whether or not the folks who showed up for that specific candidate, a progressive candidate, would show up for Keller in the runoff, or, if they really just wanted.

Alex.

What did you see in that regard in terms of what we saw with the run out?

>> Griego: You know, I think most of them kind of said, like, you know, worst two evils for a lot of folks who just weren't crazy about Keller.

And, but they thought that there was no way that they were going to be able to either stay home or support White.

Right?

I mean, so, I don't think he got all of them.

I don't think it because it was a lot of young folks.

It was a lot of first time voters.

I don't know that they all got pushed to the polls like they did because there was some, you know, there's some pretty significant effort to push these younger first time voters to the polls.

So I think there was some drop off there.

And, but I think for the most part, the ones who did vote, I think, you know, may have done it reluctantly, but said, you know, they were convinced that Keller was the guy and also a lot of a lot of folks who had been supporting Uballez if not Uballez himself, sort of said, like, you know, this is what we this is where we got to go.

A lot of the folks who were behind him, including most of the groups, by the way, they ended up endorsing Keller.

And so I think it kind of gave everybody the green light to move.

But at the same time, Darren White was courting those voters.

Right.

Kind of positioning himself as a change candidate.

Greg, how do you assess his, job of doing that?

>> Payne: Yeah, I think he, I know Darren and Darren can be a very charming guy, and I was a little surprised that we didn't see that side of the campaign.

Who was very angry.

White guy was a lot of, you know, thumping the thumb on the pulpit and pointing and that kind of thing.

I think the success for Tim Keller is presenting himself as a very positive, very upbeat.

He's a very smooth politician.

I haven't seen anyone that good, but during came across as unnecessarily angry.

I think that the people of Albuquerque were open to a change.

I think they want the city to move in a different direction.

But, Darren just he was not the vehicle for that in his presentation and in his message.

But I do want to say this.

Eric's absolutely right.

This wasn't necessarily a pro Tim Keller vote.

This was an anti-Trump vote this past election.

>> Nash: Okay.

Do you think that there were there were other issues at hand as well?

Or if this really feels like a referendum on Trump, >> Griego: I think it was.

I think if you even look at the messaging that came from the Keller campaign, it was primarily about, you know what, Darren, the Darren was going to be sort of, you know, going to was going to bring ice in and it was going to be sort of inhumane with homes and sadly, that's what he said.

As Darren said, he could have come out and said, look, listen, we need to go in a different direction.

We need to have be thoughtful about these sort of these crime issues in these in these homelessness issues.

But this on day one, I'm cleaning up the camps.

On day one we're going to going to get back to, to to hardcore policing and arresting people.

And, and so when I was just like that was that was red meat for his base and he was but that's not he needed another 10 or 15 points to Greg's point, and he just didn't really appeal to those sort of moderate Democrats and sort of, you know, maybe disaffected Republicans >> Nash: Somewhat of an anti ice vote then.

>> Griego: Yeah.

Well, I was anti I think it was anti, fascist vote.

Some people would say like the way things are going under Trump, I think a lot of again we're we're a blue city.

I mean we're not a I wouldn't say we're a progressive city.

We're definitely a hardcore blue city.

>> Nash: And so in that regard, Eric, you left the Democratic Party.

Greg, you're no longer a registered Republican either.

Are things too polarized at this point for a progressive voter, a moderate Democratic voter, to vote for someone like Darren?

>> Payne: Yeah, I think they are I think they are so polarized.

And maybe I'm not making the point that I want to make as well as I'd like to make it, but I think the national dynamic and I see this up in Santa Fe, Democrats are so enraged at Trump that any opportunity they have, be it a protest, be it some sort of a rally, be it a vote in the Albuquerque city, election, they want to do something to mark their disagreement with this administration.

I get that, and I also I'm going to agree with this part of your statement.

Eric Albuquerque's a blue city, and Republican needs to be aware of that when they run.

>> Nash: Well, and Keller was, quite unpopular and overcame that.

Some polling before the election had his approval rating ranging from 33 to 53%.

Eric, how did he overcome that to, to win in such a big way?

>> Griego: He tacked right.

I mean, everybody said like, you know, we got to appeal to that Uballez, that left vote.

I mean, he tried to hold them up, but at the Albuquerque Police Officers Association, they were not fans of Keller.

The fact that he was willing to sort of re-embrace, Sean Willoughby, who if you've listened to some of the things he said, Yeah, it's the Police Officers Association who, like, thought he was, you know, maybe not as pro cop as they'd like him to be.

They did they they came out and so he actually tried to sort of build make some inroads on the, on the, on the right as well, I would say on the right, sort of more on the conservative side of the political spectrum while trying to hold as much of the left as possible.

It's exactly the opposite of what Darren Darren Darren doubled down on, sort of holding his sort of much more conservative, base.

So I think he, you know, having the police officers association, that was huge, Keller getting them endorsement because I sort of gave them a like, oh, maybe he is the best guy on crime.

>> Nash: And the Albuquerque Journal poll in September said crime is the top issue for voters.

Darren White was a former top cop at the state and at the city.

So why did Keller get the vote, or the endorsement of the police, as well as the vote of maybe people who are concerned heavily about crime in Albuquerque?

>> Payne: Eric said it, and I've said it, too.

I mean, it really was the lesser of two evils elections.

People felt like Tim has not done the job.

And I'd like to talk to you, the fact that at some point there's a different Tim Keller, the candidate, versus Tim Keller, the mayor.

>> Nash: Yeah.

Well, so, Alex, Uballez came on this program and basically made that criticism saying, that Tim Keller talks the right talk on the campaign trail, but his actions don't line up.

Do you see that?

>> Payne: No, absolutely.

I think he is one.

Like I said, he's one of the smoothest politicians I've seen going back to that debate where Darren's upset and thumping the the podium, there were times when if you're watching kind of off camera, Tim's off to the side.

He's smiling, he's confident.

He knew he's going to win that debate.

The problem is he's been mayor of Albuquerque for eight years.

What has he done and what's he going to do with another four years?

I think the voters thought about that.

The problem was taking it all the way back to lesser of two evils.

They felt like Tim was someone they could live with.

Darren was too much of a wild card and a wild card with a bit of a history.

>> Nash: So your'e saying he's a stronger candidate than he is.

>> Payne: Absolutely.

>> Nash: In terms of a mayor that's been somebody who governs >> Payne: Yeah, listen.

I mean, he's never lost an election.

He's good.

But it's almost like Robert Redford in The Candidate.

What do I do now?

And the question we have, we've had eight years of what would Tim Keller do as mayor?

And the answer is he looks good as mayor, but does he get the job done?

And that's why so many people were undecided or looking for someone else to vote for.

Problem is, lesser of two evils.

>> Nash: What are your thoughts on this?

>> Griego: Well, I think what would happen with voters on the is obviously going to come by his coalition.

Right?

Like they had two options.

They're going to stay home.

They were going to vote for white.

They're going to stay home, or they're going to sort of, support Tim, even though Tim, in a lot of these positions, you know, has been inconsistent with what he said.

I mean, in the view of a lot, it's like he's been tougher on homelessness than some folks on the left would like him to be.

But he sort of definitely came as came across as much more humane than than the Darren White was he sort of struck this balance between being pro cop, pro accountability.

A lot of folks on the left said, wait a minute, where's the where's the accountability?

The, the, the DUI scandal was, you know, it was under your party, partially under your watch.

We still we still have a lot of police shootings.

You just got endorsed by a pretty right wing head of a APOA.

So like, where's the where's the, you know, so I think, for the left, for the folks on the left who were part of his initial coalition.

He's been part, by the way, part of the political coalition since he was in the, in the state legislature.

And that's really the folks who supported him.

I think they had they had to decide whether they were going to take the chance of having this, you know, really sort of pro-Trump, Republican mayor.

And what does that mean for the city?

So it was fear.

Again, I don't think it was a ringing endorsement by anyone of, of color, of a third of a third term.

>> Nash: So you guys are characterizing this as an anti-Trump vote?

We talked about, crime as a, as a prominent issue, homelessness, also a prominent issue among voters.

There was in the final days of the race, a controversy over those sweatshirts that said, I heart Tim Keller that were passed out to presumably unhoused people off of central, which prompted, statements of disgust from both sides.

There was a lot of finger pointing, with the election behind us, does that does that fight also fade away, or does it persist?

>> Payne: Well, let me just say I'm not sure that hoodies for the homeless was was anything but fairly harmless.

Was it in bad taste?

Absolutely.

But, I think at the end of the day, if anything, it drew a little more attention to that issue.

So, I've, I've worked in political campaigns.

You know, Eric has, in terms of political dirty tricks, this was kind of mild >> Nash: but a ethics complaint has been filed.

So will that be something?

>> Griego: Yeah.

I think, you know, that the, the issue of like, the issue, the ethics complaint is, is if you're trying to influence an election, then you have to disclose it's pretty like arcane stuff.

It's not about the morality of what they do.

I mean, I think it was disgusting.

I mean, you know, there's there's folks on our streets, clearly, who are struggling.

We need to have we need to learn the best way to solve that.

There's lots of ways to think about doing that.

Is it housing?

Is it addiction treatment?

Whatever it is.

But what it's not is sort of using them as sort of, you know, scapegoats for this for, for a, for political campaign and also just it was really cringe you to sort of do that.

Whoever was behind it, I think, I don't think there's gonna be huge consequences.

But, if you believe in an afterlife, I think you have to like, you know, how do you how do you use folks on the street who are cold in the winter and give them a hoodie that they tried to kind of pull them into?

This political campaign, its kind of gross >> Payne: point is, is moving forward, is it the most effective use of time and energy of Mayor Keller, to pursue this or to just move on?

Or better yet, focus a little bit more on the issue of homeless homelessness overall?

>> Nash: Okay, let's touch on the two council races a little bit.

One was a blow out.

Stephanie Telles besting Joshua Taylor Neil by more than 20 points in district one.

The other way closer to close to call on election night.

This is district three.

Unofficial results have incumbent Clarissa Pena ahead of progressive challenger Theresa Garcia by less than 70 votes.

So almost about as close as it gets.

Eric, moments before we sat down here on Thursday, rather, Garcia, said that she conceded the race and decided not to pursue a recount.

What?

What can you tell us about that?

>> Griegos: Well, unlike other races in the state, if you if it's close, it's within one 1%.

The state law requires an automatic recount.

That was not the case here, and it was just over 1%.

So she was going to request it.

She had publicly said she wanted to to request to request a recount.

There wasn't any sort of allegations of sort of inappropriate or nefarious stuff at the polls.

>> Nash: Just it was so close.

>> Griego: It was just so close.

So, you know, it's it's not a crazy idea, but I do think, you know, we reached out to their campaign and someone I think they decided, like, look, this is there's not enough there in terms of, like, try to trying to, to try to, like, really revisit any sort of potential voting errors.

And also the big thing for her, and this is an issue in the campaign, is you have to you have to pay for that.

Right.

And and I don't know how much it cost, but even if it was a marginal amount of money, remember she was sued by the other campaign, you know, supporters of the other candidate, to try to take her off the ballot.

And that was a $4,000 legal bill in a campaign that was struggling to raise money just to get mail out the door.

So she was always at a disadvantage.

She's a working mom.

She is at a disadvantage to have to now pay for this thing that that didn't look really that fruitful.

Anyway, I think she just made a very kind of practical, prudent call as someone who's like, just a working mom, like, look, I can't I can't afford to do this.

It probably won't change the outcome.

It might send a real strong signal that maybe, you know, we really need to think about how close this was and what does that say about the incumbent.

But I just think she made a practical call that she she couldn't really afford to to pay for it.

>> Nash: And in the final days of the race, there was a controversy in that race as well, in that Garcia's response to an Albuquerque Journal questionnaire that asked her if she'd ever been arrested, she said no.

She, in fact had, though a jury had acquitted her of those charges.

Can you all break that down?

What what happened and what difference did it make?

I mean, it's a real close race.

Did it make the difference?

>> Payne: Nash, I absolutely think it made the difference and I didn't really tune in to that race until that that article in the Albuquerque Journal came out with, you know, her answering the question incorrectly or falsely or however you want to put it.

And this is one of those races where when you say every vote counts, every vote really counts.

So yeah, so but I think in a race that close, you have to look at, you know, what was the big the big issue.

And the big issue at the end was journal questionnaire, right or wrong.

And I want to say this, I understand where Teresa was coming from.

And I think what she did with her story, with that, that experience afterwards is to be commended.

But a lesson learned on the the Journal questionnaire.

But yeah, I think that was the difference.

>> Griego: I think it was it was disgusting actually.

I think, I think for for survivor, for an activist, for not just the journal to lean into us and sort of do this sort of finger pointing that went on, especially Jeff Tucker doing that, was was bad enough.

But what really made the difference is, the dirty tricks, the campaign, the dark money actually came from the penny campaign to sort of send meal pieces about her being a liar, her being, you know, and this is, this is someone who she was essentially exonerated from the case.

She was found not guilty because.

And so, I was really, really disappointed in the Penny campaign for not saying like this.

We don't support this.

We denounce it.

They actually said is, Oh, well, it's not about domestic violence, about her telling the truth.

Anybody who knows anything about domestic violence knows that.

The reality is that often the perpetrators in these events will preemptively sort of try to make an issue of.

But that's what happened in this case.

>> Nash: Used the justice system >> Griego: against her and, you know, >> Payne: and Eric.

But here's the thing is politics.

It's a political campaign.

And these things happen.

And I'm in agreement with you when it comes to Teresa.

She didn't take a plea deal.

She was being prosecuted by the state of New Mexico.

She insisted on her day in court in front of a jury of her peers.

And they said, not guilty.

So I'm with you.

It's unfortunate she has to go through this.

But she took a stand for public office.

And the journal is notorious for this.

They've tripped me up.

They tripped candidates up all the time.

Someone I don't know who is advising Teresa's campaign.

Someone should have advised her differently or handled this matter differently.

Yeah.

Having said that, I don't want to revictimized the victim either.

>> Nash: I appreciate that.

And I appreciate you all, being here to hash out the election results, I'm going to ask you to stick around so that we can start to look forward at what these results might mean for the city moving forward.

Thank you.

>>Damian: We have seen that -- neighborhood conditions go beyond, some of these perceived, crime issues, loitering, property crimes.

It really does depend on, the quality of life in general.

Right.

So, parks, access to amenities, stores access, to the freeways and being able to get across town easily.

>>Nash: I'll sit down with Bernalillo County Assessor Damien Lara, in about ten minutes.

So, as President Trump looks to deliver on a campaign promise to expand fossil fuel production in the U.S., his administration is moving to roll back long fight for protections around Chaco Culture National Historical Park, reigniting conversations many thought had been settled.

Reporter, Cailley Chella, has this story >> Chella: Here at Chaco National Park.

Ancient ruins rise from the desert as a testament to the enduring legacy of indigenous peoples.

But it's not just history right now.

It's the focus of a fierce fight between protecting sacred ground and the economics of industrial development.

But first, a little history.

Back in 2023, after years of advocacy from indigenous leaders and community members, the US government enacted a 20 year ban on new federal oil and gas leasing within a ten mile zone around Chaco Canyon.

>> Armijo: [Dine Language] >> Chella: Just two years later, Pueblo leaders and advocates are again rallying in defense.

>> Armijo: Today, in the face of immense development, the pueblos have come together to fight to protect Chaco.

The greater Chaco region is a living cultural landscape, intertwined, intertwined with every pueblos identity.

>> Miller: The Trump administration's move to overturn protections for more than 336,000 acres in the greater Chaco region is astonishing, harmful and deeply disrespectful.

>> Chella: Here, architecture and astronomy meet the sandstone walls of Chaco's buildings were erected in alignment with the equinox.

Using precise cardinal directions, the design reflects an ancient scientific understanding.

>> Riley: My grandson was born on summer solstice, and so one year we took him out there for his birthday, watched the sun come up, watched a beam of light, travel across one side of the Kiva, and right when the sun rose, it fits right into this little niche on the other side.

It was planned that way.

When you see things like that and you experience it, it brings your awareness of the place to a much, much greater level.

>> Chella: Governor Riley says Chaco is vital to the Acoma peoples history, but it's also intertwined with the pueblos modern day identity.

>> Riley: Our ancestors that lived there, they were hydrologists.

They were, agriculturalists.

They were astronomers.

They were scientists.

And so, along with all the cultural and religious aspects of it, that's what makes it so significant here at Acoma.

The buildings take advantage of the the traveling path of the sun.

That was that was knowledge that was learned from Chaco.

>> Chella: Just beyond Chaco's Ten mile buffer.

That identity confronts the modern oil and gas industry on a massive scale.

You'll know you've left the ten mile buffer zone when these yellow pipeline markers start popping back up like a less fun yellow brick road that lead not to OZ, but to oil.

Hear the hum of manmade machinery replaces the soft whispers of the wind.

This is where the protection ends and Mario Attenzione story begins.

>> Atencio: This is the greater tribal landscape.

This is the ancient Navajo homeland from here, stretching north to Colorado is considered Dinétah And old.

The old among the Navajo is how to translate it.

And that's where the Navajo people emerge culturally.

The level of sacredness, it can only be, compared to, like, the land of Canaan.

>> Chella: Atencio is a community organizer who leads tours through the land his family has called home for generations to educate visitors about the impact of oil.

His father owns land near counselor, about 45 miles from Chaco Canyon.

He's what's known as an allotee a designation for native people who were given land by the US government in a program started in the late 1800s that was meant to encourage assimilation.

These wells, he says, desecrate a spiritual heritage that no law can fully protect.

>> Atencio: I want them to shut down.

But knowing that way the law works and the administrative process here, and it's the most -- it's the hardest thing to do, is to start being part of the process of building legally and making sure that people are living up to rules and regulations, federal, state, tribal, and that we need to have building accountability in the process.

>>Chella: Studies show that with oil and gas development come well known byproducts, and those can damage your lungs, your joints, your central nervous system.

Not to mention deeper harms.

>> Atencio: Just recently, cousins of mine -- posting on social media that their children are having asthma attacks.

It's heartbreaking.

>> Chella: There have been numerous studies on the impacts of oil and gas development, but advocates have been pushing for a deeper, public health focused look.

For years.

>> Atencio: There's no mechanism in the state, even at the universities, for this.

Focused on oil and gas.

So really, there's no one to run to.

No group, no institute.

>> Chella: I reached out to Navajo Nation officials and individual allottee's who have publicly spoken out in favor of oil and gas drilling.

>> Welcome the entire panel.

And again, President Nygren to the committee today.

>> Chella: But no one from the nation responded, and no allottee was willing to speak with me on camera.

Still local communities are divided, including the Navajo Nation.

Some see the ban as negatively impacting livelihoods.

And others say it's a step in the right direction to protecting cultural heritage and the health and well-being of the community.

>> The Subcommittee on Energy and Mineral Resources will come to order >> Chella: in 2023.

Community members traveled to Washington, D.C.

for a house subcommittee hearing on Chaco.

Some spoke out against the ten mile buffer zone, saying they closely track oil and gas impacts and rely on the industry for income.

>> Hesuse: I am Dolores Hesuse, a citizen of the Navajo Nation.

Nageezi chapter.

My chapter is in the greater Chaco region and near the Chaco culture.

National Historic Park.

The Navajo Nation and the alottee's now are united in their opposition of any buffer zone around the park.

These lands were given to our great great grandparents in exchange for citizenship.

Should we have rights as citizens, landowners to develop our lands for oil and gas as we see fit?

This is a steadfast property right that sustains our livelihoods and way of life.

>> Chella: Atencio says he understands the impact of the income, but says that the costs outweigh the benefits.

And besides, it's not the million dollar jackpot that many believe it is.

>> Atencio: Local community receives nothing.

Say for the individual Indians that receive royalties.

Some of that's not even it's enough.

You know, it helps, but there's some people only get 12 bucks.

Like me personally.

Like, if I were to receive moneys, you know, God forbid my my dad passed away.

It's going to be like five, ten thousands of of a percent of of the whole area.

So it's it's minimal for what is being dumped on us.

But someone that is receiving real money is, I think, sometimes the production figures of something approaching like 50,000 a month.

That's just one.

Well, but it's held by hundreds of people.

So it just gets boiled down.

>> Chella: He also says that people aren't being made aware of the full picture >> Atencio: by a certified mail, a thick packet.

It's written in legalese, you know, close to Latin, English, and you're trying to you need to translate that into a different, basically world view and language into Navajo.

Is there any consideration of the facts?

Are the parties aware?

If not, then it's not a real contract.

>> Chella: Atencio, says many, including the state, are benefiting from the financial windfall and that there's no consideration, much less investment, back into the people that are most affected.

>> Atencio: The wonderful sidewalks people have from oil money.

There's a payment.

It was a consequence of that.

Your wonderful library, your wonderful community center funded by the state, comes from somewhere.

It's paid in blood.

Sometimes it's payed with sickness.

>> Chella: To understand what's at stake.

Governor Riley says you have to stand among the walls.

Built a millennium ago.

>> Riley: That's what's missing.

it's the education of a federal leadership to come out and experience those things.

And I'd be more than happy to take them out there personally.

>> Chella: For now, the 20 year ten mile ban still stands.

But many fear time may be running out.

>> Atencio: A pulling the buffer zone was actually written for the Trump administration.

That's a cynical view.

It's kind of known through policy development that the decisions are already made.

They're going to pull it.

>> Chella: Regardless of the outcome in Washington.

Communities here say that Chacos ecological and spiritual significance demands action far outside the park's borders.

>> Atencio: When we say Yando en Contado Land of Enchantment, do we mean it?

Beautiful Chaco Canyon and the landscape, the enchanting landscape of Chaco Canyon.

Is that does that fit in with our values as Nuevo Mexicanos?

I think it does.

And so now the people are going to have to weigh in on this.

It's been up to, you know, a lot of us have been carrying the weight for the poor peoples for a long time -- now, its at some point we have to say it's up to you viewers and community people, to start organizing and standing up for something other than -- money.

>>Chella: For New Mexico in Focus I'm Cailley Chella reporting.

>>Nash: Thanks to Cailley for her reporting.

So, the age of a home the size of the lot its on those, of course, affect its sale price, but so do external factors like, the neighborhood it's in, how much crime happens there and how many amenities are available nearby.

That's according to new research by the Bernalillo County Assessor's Office, which combed through 15 years of property data to settle on what they say is a more equitable formula.

This week, I sit down with Assessor Damien Lara to talk about what his office found and why they say their valuations have improved.

>> Nash: Assessor.

Thank you so much for joining us.

>>Lara: Thank you so much for having me.

It really is an honor to be on your show.

>> Nash: So your office has studied the extent that external factors can play a role in the value of a property.

So let's let's talk about what counts as external factors.

What are we looking at?

>> Lara: That can be everything from neighborhood conditions, such as your relative amenities that you have in the area, access to, shops, access to other things like open spaces or parks, readily access to, businesses or, how your traffic flow works.

If you have access to the interstate or main corridors that you can go in and out of main streets.

And then whether or not that has or causes traffic congestion can be also external factors.

And for many homeowners and property owners, that can also be the level of perceived or real crime, whether that's, property crime or petty crimes.

From the unhoused community, such as loitering or trespassing or vagrancy, >> Nash: and now when you say perceived, one of the categories you had for external factors was stigma and perception.

How do you measure that?

>> Lara: So we measure all of these things through what the market is doing.

So we define the market as a willing seller and a willing buyer and what that purchase price is.

And since property taxes and property assessments are done as of January 1st, we always look at prior years to establish that.

And so -- like most things, you know, society and societal changes, if -- perception becomes so dominant, it becomes reality.

And so while, you may have similar amounts of external factors or obsolescence in this neighborhood as you do in others, if there is a perception in that neighborhood, then there is less willingness for individuals to purchase that property.

And so that's how we measure, what the neighborhood realities are, is final sales pr >> Nash: when looking at sales prices.

So if if there's less interest in a particular neighborhood because there's a perception, there's a, reputation in the city for that area that's going to affect sales prices.

And then you also look at police reports.

>> Lara: Correct.

So we work both through, our census tracks and the information that the US census provides.

And we also look at things like, Albuquerque Police Department, statistical maps and the number of both calls and reports, that are done in a particular neighborhood and in particular home.

>> Nash: Okay.

And you recently did a case study that looked at the impact of, one particular meth lab on the sale prices of surrounding properties.

What were what was the takeaway of that study?

>> Lara: We actually found that it was a very minimal impact on the sales prices of homes.

You know, minimal within a quarter mile.

And after you get to about half a mile of that property, it was almost nonexistent.

>> Nash: So is one of the takeaways that these external factors matter, but maybe don't have as profound of an impact as some of these other things.

Maybe a meth lab versus access to a freeway access to a grocery store.

Is is that what I'm understanding?

>> Lara: Correct, Yeah.

So, we have seen that, neighborhood conditions go beyond, some of these perceived, crime issues, loitering, property crimes.

It really does depend on, the quality of life.

>> Nash: You said in a statement that the case study that we've been talking about with the meth lab, the case study and its findings without reservation, support the accuracy of our evaluations.

There is no question.

How so?

>> Lara: Well, we've we've looked at, we do what we refer to as a sales ratio study.

Right.

So we look at the sales price and what our ratio to that sales price is on what our assessment valuation is.

>> Nash: Now, So the the difference between what a property actually sold for versus what you assess to that.

Is that right?

>> Lara: Correct, Yes.

>> Nash: And what did you find?

>> Lara: That we are almost or we're within almost, 95, 96% of that sales price.

>> Nash: Alright, And usually that's a one year review of sales prices versus assessments.

My understanding is you've recently completed a 15 year review.

What did that glean?

That maybe a one year review wouldn't.

>> Lara: So again, it provides us an opportunity to see where, property values are trending and where we can do a better job of taking a holistic approach to the valuations as opposed to, a single year, of what we're doing.

And it helps us take into account whether or not we are, being fair and equitable.

Right.

So, it's easier to get a lot of information and a lot of sales information about, sort of what we refer to in the industry as cookie cutters.

Right.

You have a developer who comes in and does 100 homes all the same, sort of where they, you know, make very minor things.

>> Nash: I think we've seen those around, >> Lara: Yes, you know, they're all built during the same time.

And so when those sell, you have good information.

It is much harder, to compare neighborhood areas for example, in our South Valley, where you may have a very large, you know, 3000 square foot home, custom built.

And then the next two, it has a 25 or $50,000 mobile home on it.

Right?

And the same thing for large property.

So million dollar custom home built homes, you don't have as many sales for those, so you can't do the same sort of extrapolation and analysis of when those sell.

And so what ends up happening is, is that, many assessing offices tend to have a lower assessment for those higher end properties and a higher assessment for our average homes, or even lower, value or lower selling homes.

>> Nash: So when that happens, in some ways the burden, the tax burden is being placed on the folks with lower incomes, smaller homes, less expensive homes than those who are in those mansions in the heights >> Lara: Exactly, and our sales ratio study has a coefficient to measure that.

So we call that our price related differential.

So the price related difference between those higher end properties that are selling and those properties that are more affordable that are also being sold.

And so the higher that price related differential is, the more we know that we are under assessing higher end or higher value properties versus properties that are being sold for a lower price.

>> Nash: Is that your goal as an office?

Is that where your values stand or are you looking to shift that?

>> Lara: So we're looking so the office of Bernalillo County, Assessor's Office is part of the International Association of Assessing Offices.

And we have industry standards.

Our industry standards says that we should try to be as close to one on our price related differential as we can.

We've part of the study that we did for 15 years worth of review data.

We saw that we were slightly higher, and a slightly higher number indicates that we are, again, being a little bit more regressive in our assessments.

And so after the study, we were able to take note of that and that it was consistently.

And so we made adjustments to our neighborhoods so that we were able to get our price related differential to be a little bit lower, so that we now are seeing that we're a little bit more progressive in our tax assessments.

Most people are sort of familiar with your standard Bell curve and we want to have as many properties within that bell curve as possible.

On on any deviation, you know, 5 to 10% are probably going to be too high and 5 or 10% are going to be too low.

And if your value, is one of those, then we encourage you to come in and let us know so that we can fix it.

>> Nash: Okay, and so if somebody's saying, this was what my property was, was valued at, but my grocery store closed this year, and I have, I've had to call the police a few times, for whatever is happening in their neighborhood.

And they feel like you've assessed their, their property to high what is available to them and what process is available to them.

>> Lara: So there's two processes that are available.

One is to come and file what we typically refer to as a protest.

But it's a it's a notice to the your county assessor saying, I disagree with the valuation of my property.

That is free.

We help property owners come in.

It's from the day you get your notice of value.

All the way to 30 days after receiving that notice of value.

>> Nash: But here we are in December.

So what can people do now?

>> Lara: So now you've gotten your tax bill and the only other recourse you have if you didn't protest back in April, you can file a claim for refund in the Second Judicial District Court.

That is going to cost you about 135 $140, to file that claim, for refund.

That then is brought to our office and we will reach out to the property owner or to their attorney if they have one, and try and understand if we did make a mistake on that valuation.

And it's the same thing, we do the exact same thing that we would do on the protest, as we do with the claim for refund in district, >> Nash: and they have until early January to do that?

>> Lara: So January 9th, I would do it just to be safe.

New Mexico is a non-disclosure state.

But if you do file a protest again, it doesn't cost you anything.

Part of our responsibility to go through that is to provide information on how we arrived at that assessment.

>>Nash: Thanks again to Assessor Lara for stopping by.

But one note news broke on Thursday after our interview that former Bernalillo County District Attorney Kari Brandenburg has filed a class action lawsuit against the Assessor and County Commission over the valuation of hers and others homes.

Let's return now to our conversation with former city councilors Eric Griego and Greg Payne.

In the second part of our discussion, I asked them both what residents should expect from four more years of Tim Keller.

>>Nash: Welcome back to the table.

Thanks for sticking around.

Eric, I want to start with you.

Tim Keller has been elected to an unprecedented third consecutive term.

What could he get done in four years that he didn't get done in eight?

>>Eric: You know, I'm not a fan of of any executive having a third term president, governor, even mayor.

But I have to say that a lot of the the lag in getting gateway fully functional, it's taken a lot longer than he would have liked.

So I do think in this third term, it's it's it's likely that will be fully functional because we've put a ton of money and resources into that.

So that's one.

This transition in APD has been a tough one to write to, to, to be from under federal sort of oversight to sort of trying to reform the culture.

I still think there's a lot of work to do there.

So he's going to let Harold Medina go.

I think that's a good I think that's a good thing.

And the chief's, you know, a very decent guy.

But I also think, we need somebody from the outside.

Given the DUI scandal, given some of the culture issues, many of which have been addressed, but not all.

I think it would be good to have somebody from outside APD, frankly, someone from outside New Mexico, to come in and really sort of sort of bring a new sort of, vision for that department.

So that's a big one.

>>Nash: You mentioned the police endorsement.

Do you think that that signals that, there may have been a conversation about hiring internally?

>>Eric: I wouldn't be surprised.

I mean, that's going to be a tough one to I was I was surprised because AP-- had been critical of the mayor.

And, you know, politically, they're much more much more conservative.

And Keller had really tried to steer this road between, you know, I'm going to support the cops, but I'm also going to hold him accountable.

I think it's I think there's going to be pressure to hire from within one of their own.

I hope that that Keller has the, the fortitude to say, look, we need a fresh a new look at this.

You know, I'm a local boy, so I'm like, people outside the state aren't smarter, better.

I just think it's good to have someone with a different perspective.

>>Nash: Are you saying that Keller simply needed more time on some of these issues?

And so it's just an issue of time and not necessarily-- >>Eric: He need some new leaders.

He, you know, he's going to need there's gonna be a lot of turnover in his administration.

He needs some new leadership at APD for sure.

I think he's going to need some new leadership in some of his departments.

I think his senior team there will be some transition there to some and, you know, and the last thing is with council, I think the the dynamics given the council races will certainly change.

And I think for him to work much more collaboratively.

And that wasn't just his fault.

We had a very cantankerous council, you know.

So that's the other thing that has to change the dynamics of the first eight years have to change in terms of how does council and the mayor move the city in a, in a direction that's much more.

>>Nash: You bring up the council, let's talk about it.

>>Greg: Real quick, I if I might Nash, I don't think Tim needs more time.

I think he's had plenty of time.

We fought and won World War II, in four years he's had eight, so, you know, I think he's Listen, he's got more time.

What can he tackle?

I mean, the number one issue, I think is going to be crime followed very closely by homelessness.

My concern with Tim is touching on Medina.

You can't have the same crew, the same set of eyes, the same, you know, agreement on things and make, change.

We've had Harold Medina for too long as APD chief.

I hope, like Eric does, that we have an outside, chief come in.

I think the likelihood of that is pretty slim, and I think it will go a long way to, setting a theme, for the Keller administration, part three, which is: Are you really going to change or is it just going to be more of the same?

I suspect more of the same unfortunately.

>>Nash: Greg, the state Republican Party said in a statement that their hope is that the conversation raised throughout this election helps guide Mayor Keller towards representing all citizens and businesses.

Apparently the two candidates are planning on getting coffee.

But does the Keller administration need to listen to white or white voters with what a blow out it was?

>>Greg: They don't have to.

There's no need to.

But I think it would be wise to do that as the mayor.

If you truly mean you want to bring the city together, you want to hear all voices there.

I think he kind of has to.

It doesn't mean he has to sit down with Daryl White.

But there are concerns out there reflected in some of the polling we've seen, especially when it comes to crime.

People are concerned about it.

And I know everyone's saying, well, the stats are down.

Everything is getting better.

That may or may not be true.

I just don't, people feel it.

>>Eric: And I think the problem the Republican Party has is, you know, Darren essentially was the face of the Republican Party and their values.

For him to say, you know, we're going to sweep the streets and we're going to rest homeless people and we're going to bring ICE in.

I mean, that is not a message that resonates with the overwhelming majority of voters in Albuquerque, maybe a small set of Republican voters.

But I think the I think the real problem is Tim has gone as far as he can, right?

In terms of trying to reach out to folks.

I mean, taking the police union endorsement, which often is, you know, has been critical of him.

I think he's trying to reach out.

I think he's he's he's going to try to govern from the middle.

You know, this idea that he they keep coming a progressive mayor, certainly.

He's had some progressive tendencies, but I think he's going to try to govern from the middle.

And I don't know how much more he can.

He's not going to he's not going to welcome ICE in and he's not going to arrest, homeless people.

Just because they're on the street.

>>Greg: Eric, ICE is not crime.

I mean, crime is in Albuquerque.

It's all over the place.

And one of the fundamental differences between White and between Keller was Keller wants to do some sort of tech thing, you know, a surveillance state where, you know, crime is fought with with tech.

And Darren said, we need to have boots on the ground.

We need to have men, more men and women, with APD get back to the basics.

I think in that in that regard, Darren was right.

I think Tim is wrong-- >>Eric: Except that he doesn't We've been trying for 20 years to get more people to sign up for APD.

They're the numbers aren't there we've recruited We're stealing them from rio rancho.

We've tried all these things.

But I think with Tim-- Greg: We're doing the same with tech, though.

We've had the real crime time, real crime, real time crime center, with, Willoughby.

I think yeah, he was out there.

Wilham.

It was T.J.

Wilham.

Nothing came of it.

So I don't think that tech is going to solve our crime problems.

I think we need a fully funded and fully staffed APD.

>>Greg: Well, we're not going to get there with officers.

It's just it's a pipe dream.

But what could happen and what and I will give the Kellter administration credit for is bringing ACS, the Albuquerque community safety, like you have to take these lower level behavioral health related calls off the plates of APD so that they so people can get the help they need.

That will be go a long way to helping with the homeless.

It's, you know, it's it's also your earlier question about another four years.

You know, ACS is reaching its maturity.

They've grown their ranks.

Their budget has grown.

So hopefully they will be able to be a much more effective force in sort of getting some of this sort of less violent crime off the street and this lower number of APD of cops, of, of beat cops, because unless we're going to beam them in from outer space, like they're just not it's not happening anywhere.

>>Nash: I appreciate the spirited debate I do want to move on to the to the city council race a little bit.

The result was sort of a mixed bag ideologically, at least across the the Democratic spectrum.

Greg, how will the next Council differ from what we see today?

>>Greg: That's entirely up to the city council.

And not to get nostalgic, but when Eric and I were on the council, we had Hess Yntema We had Mike Cadigan we had councilors who really took it to the administration, where we had areas of agreement where we were there.

But, the city council was supposed to set the direction for the city of Albuquerque, and I'm not sure that it's done that for a very long time.

I don't know what Doctor Griego would say, but, hope hopefully-- >>Nash: Through the Keller Administration?

>>Greg: Against the Keller Administration hopefully.

I mean, Alexander Hamilton said it best in Federalist 51.

Ambition must check ambition.

We have a separation of powers.

And I'm going to see the city council be, a little, more assertive.

>>Nash: But we do have Telles coming in for the seat that used to be held by Louie Sanchez.

He vacated it to run for mayor, obviously.

He's considerably more conservative than Telles.

So ideologically, that shift?

>>Eric: It's a game changer.

I mean, this wasn't just ideologically.

He was like he was a 24 seven critic of the mayor.

the mayor could do nothing right in Louie Sanchez's eyes.

Tried to run for mayor.

Stephanie Telles is smart, capable, thoughtful.

She she leans progressive.

I think she's going to be, she's going to definitely move the council in a much more sort of progressive direction.

But that still leaves four Republicans who've been pretty conservative and fought for for progressives.

>>Greg: And Klarissa.

>>Eric: And now you have Klarissa Pena which is why in district three and I think she has sort of depending on the issue, she has, she doesn't consider yourself a progressive.

She's a much more sort of transactional elected official.

She's like, I've got to get stuff for my district ideologically.

She doesn't take any hard lines around some of these issues.

She's been great on immigration, not so good on things like paid sick leave.

>>Nash: Likely going to be the swing vote.

>>Eric: She will be a swing vote She might even be the president.

I know they're negotiating that.

So I think she's going to.

So had that come out differently, you would have had a solid five progressive and progressive majority, which means the mayor could have maybe moved a much more progressive agenda.

I think they didn't have it didn't happen.

>>Nash: Keller told me, pardon me.

Keller told me ahead of the election that he was not going to run for, fourth term if he was elected this time around.

Now, there's a little bit of confusion.

His campaign manager walked that back a bit in a statement to political blogger Joe Monahan.

Greg, you were quoted in that post, what do you make of this shift?

>>Greg: Well, number one, I think the timing's bad if if Tim wants to run for another term, you know, fourth term, that's up to him.

It's up to the voters.

But he just won.

So why don't we celebrate that and focus on that and not start talking about, you know, I'm going to run again in four more years.

I think it takes something away from his victory.

>>Nash: His campaign manager did say, like, we're not looking there.

We're looking at the next four years.

So that was kind of the argument there.

Yeah.

>>Greg: But why walk it back in the first place?

And I think a lot of it was, I think what Joe said was that Tim was going to wind up being a lame duck because he he was going to be gone in four years.

And I think there was a concern that the city council would view the mayor as a lame duck.

So they wanted to take that off the table.

>>Nash: What benefit does the ambiguity that she created then give Keller and his administration?

>>Eric: Well, first of all, it's a lame duck.

You can't be a lame duck if you have four years.

A lame duck is when you're last year or two in your office, like he's got a full term.

So that's that's longer than the terms of some of the councilors are going to be there.

So there is no this.

I, I don't buy that argument that like, that was going to sort of disempower him.

I think he has some work to do with council.

And he did offer an olive -- branch, election night saying like, I want to work with council, but, I think it's way, way too soon-- >>Nash: Does the ambiguity help him >>Eric: I think it's I think it's irrelevant.

I think it's delusional.

I think had anybody said that he would be able to do a third term, including me, we've said, no way it hasn't been done.

And he did it.

And it's very, very tough environment with high crime and homelessness problems.

Okay.

Four years hence, who knows where we're going to be?

I mean, so I won't I don't want to predict either way.

Things could be so, terrible at the federal level that maybe there'll be an opportunity for strong local leadership.

And also let's see what he does these next four years.

He may be able to turn around some of these issues that have been really difficult to do, or maybe four years from now, like what is changed.

And then I think it's going to be even a harder sell.

It's time.

>>Greg: And like I said, I mean, you know, let's not look at four years.

Let's look at the next four weeks, four months, what's right in front of us.

>>Nash: Well, I appreciate it.

And we're going to keep an eye on things.

Thanks.

Eric, Greg.

>>Nash: Thanks to Eric Griego and Greg Payne, and thanks to everyone else who contributed to the show.

And before we go tonight, we say goodbye to one of our own.

Kathleen McVicker, a television pioneer and one of KNME's first stars, died on November 27th.

She was 92.

In 1962, while teaching music for Albuquerque Public Schools, Kathleen auditioned and was selected for a new position as producer, writer, and on-camera talent for a new live music instruction program on KNME.

The station had only been on air for a few years at that point, and Kathleen quickly helped put our station on the map.

Generations of kids in Albuquerque and surrounding communities grew up with Kathleen at home and in the classroom.

She led workshops on using television as an educational tool at public broadcasting stations in Tucson, Arizona and Moscow, Idaho.

Kathleen also spent many years volunteering as a host for KNME's live on-air pledge drives, and as a member of the Community Advisory Committee.

Everyone here, at New Mexico PBS sends our heartfelt condolences to Kathleen's family and friends.

For New Mexico PBS, I'm Nash Jones, until next week, stay focused.

Funding for New Mexico in Focus is provided by: Viewers Like You