Negotiators from nearly 200 countries are hoping# to hammer out agreements to limit the pollution## that's warming the planet and to agree on aid# for the nation's most impacted by climate change.

William Brangham joins us for# a preview of what's to come.

Good to see you, William.

WILLIAM BR What are negotiators specifically# hoping to work out in this one in Dubai?

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The backdrop# for all of this is that we are## living through the hottest year# ev And that warmer world creates havoc# all over the planet in extreme events,## drought, fire, floods.

That# costs billions of dollars,## and that kills people.

And so the whole goal of# this summit, in essence, is to stop Now, there's a new focus that's been# happening this year and in recent years,## which is, what is the responsibility that# the developed world that is re sponsible for climate change, what does the# developed world owe to the developing world## that is suffering the impacts of climate# change, who did nothing to cause this?

And there was some news today.# There was a fund for the first## time established to try to offer some# aid to those n AMNA NAWAZ: So we know we# cannot meaningfully address## climate change without reducing fossil fue without moving towards renewable energy.

Pledges# and plans have How are the nations doing on those?

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Not great, in short.

I mean, U.N. Secretary about wealthy nations that talk a good# game and fail to deliver.

The fact is,## is that that progress is not# happening nearly quickly enough.

The hard part is that we live in a fossil fuel# world, I mean, every single thing the lights, this table, the concrete on this# floor, how we got to work, all powered by fossil## fuels.

And transitioning away from that is costly# and complicated, and it's a hard thing to do.

Now, that transition is happening.# Renewable energy is coming on like## gangbusters, as my mom likes to say.

(LAUGHTER) that this cost of inaction is# an unacceptable cost to pay.

AMNA NAWAZ: This one summit was also beset by## controversy before it even# began.

What ha WILLIAM BRANGHAM: People argue, why are# you having a climate change conference## in a state known, in a nation# known for exporting oil and gas?

The president of the current COP, Sultan Al Jaber,## is an oil executive in the UAE.

And so# people argue this is a classic ex the fox guarding the henhouse.

The BBC and# the Center for Climate Reporting reported## that he was found trying to make oil and# gas deals in the lead-up to this event.

So people are dubious of what might come out of# this.

And, recently, earlier this week, I tried## to get some context for all of this.

And I spoke# to Christiana Figueres, who is a veteran of these## prior U.N. climate talks.

And we began talking# about this controversy about the COP president.

CHRISTIANA FIGUERES, Former Executive Secretary,## the COP presidency has fra its responsibility, and its accountability# with which they are leading this process.

Now, from a planetary perspective, frankly,## we cannot afford for them not# to do so.

That's where we are.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Jaber certainly says# that he appreciates that there has to## be a transition away from fossil fuels,# that we have to cut emissions 50 percent in the next few years, that# he seems to argue that he is uniquely## positioned to help lead this COP and help# lead the world in those emissions reductions.

CHRISTIANA FIGUERES: And we all need him# to do that.

That is exactly right.

We all## need him to do that.

And we have -- none --# no one can afford for him to waver on that.

So, yes, I would totally agree that that is# his job.

That is his responsibility.

And if## he really sets his head to it, he can do# it.

He is a very, very intelligent person.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: You and many# others have argued that if we## continue on our current path, that we ar to an increasingly unlivable planet,# of famine and disease and conflict.

Do you worry that the sense of# urgency on that front is diminishing?

CHRISTIANA FIGUERES: We humans have a very## interesting contrasting reaction# to acute and to chronic situations.

We react pretty well when there is a chronic --# or we react pretty well when there is an acute## threat.

That hits us, hits us really hard,# and then we address it, and then we pass.

What -- a pandemic being a pretty good case# in point.

We are absolutely terrible about## dealing with chronic threats, despite the# fact that they may be life-threatening.## But if they're chronic and sustained# over time and gradually hitting us,## we're just terrible at that.# We can't deal with that.

And so the new muscle that we have to exercise# here is, how do we deploy those measures and## that decision, that commitment that we bring# to acute threats, to get through acute threats,## how do we deploy it for chronic threats?# That is the lesson that we have to learn.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The war in Ukraine# certainly sent an incredible shockwave## through the energy industry.

There's# concern that what's happening in the## Middle East right now with Israel# and Gaza could also spread wide Do you share the concern that the# tumult in the energy market pushes the## commitment to renewables and the green energy# transition to the side or to the back burner?

CHRISTIANA FIGUERES: No, to the# contrary, I was -- I was -- William,## I thought you were going to end that sentence# completely in the opposite direction.

The worry about energy dependence pushes countries# toward domestic energy production that, by and## large, is actually renewable energy direction.# And that, we have seen.

Since the war in Ukraine,## we have seen investment into renewable# energies worldwide go up.

Two years ago,## we had $1 trillion invested in# fossil fuels, still, oh, my God.

This year, we still have $1 trillion# invested into oil and gas and $1.7## trillion into renewables.

Why?# Because that actually strengthens## energy independence.

That strengthens# security, strategic national security.

And so, though the invasion of Ukraine is a# tragedy and completely cannot be justified## under any account, absolutely, and it has had# a very interesting accelerating effect on the## energy system of the world.

It has accelerated# the decarbonization of the energy system.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: On that revolution in# renewable and green energy that is under way,## as you say, what is it that most gives# you hope when you look at that industry?

I mean, wind and solar, prices# are dropping and production is## going up.

What gives you the most# hope when you look at that field?

CHRISTIANA FIGUERES: That is# exactly what gives me hope,## the fact that this is no longer linear the exponential curves, of all# of those solution technologies.

Wind is definitely on an on exponential# curve, solar definitely, batteries definitely,## E.V.s getting there very, very quickly, already# showing that initial indication of being on## that -- on that curve.

So what gives me hope is# the fact that the technologies that can help us to## reduce greenhouse gas emissions are on exponential# curve of improvement, development, and deployment.

That, of course, means that we are,# frankly, on a race here between two## exponential curves, the exponential curve# of solutions, which I have just described,## but also the exponential curve of the# negative effects that we're seeing.

So,## we are seeing two exponential curves that,# in my book, are racing against each other.

When they're going to intersect, we# don't know.

But we do know which of## those exponential curves has to win the race.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Christiana Figueres, thank# you so much for taking the time to tal CHRISTIANA FIGUERES: Thank# you, William.

Good to see you.