>>> MAJOR FUNDING FOR "CHAT BOX" WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY THE MEMBERS OF THE NEW JERSEY EDUCATION ASSOCIATION MAKING PUBLIC SCHOOLS GREAT FOR EVERY CHILD.

MJM INSURANCE GROUP SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY INSIDER NJ, A POLITICAL INTELLIGENCE NETWORK DEDICATED TO NEW JERSEY POLITICAL NEWS.

INSIDER NJ IS COMMITTED TO GIVING SERIOUS POLITICAL PLAYERS AN INTERACTIVE FORUM FOR IDEAS, DISCUSSION AND INSIGHT.

ONLINE AT INSIDERNJ.COM.

>>> HELLO, EVERYBODY.

WELCOME TO "CHAT BOX."

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

WE'VE BEEN IN PATERSON THIS WEEK FOLLOWING DEVELOPMENTS IN THE DEATH OF NAJI SEABROOKS WHO WAS SHOT AND KILLED BY PATERSON POLICE ON FRIDAY AFTER A FOUR-HOUR STANDOFF AT HIS HOME IN THE CITY.

SEABROOKS WAS A CRISIS INTERVENTIONIST WITH THE PATERSON HEALING COLLECTIVE, A TH THREE-YEAR-OLD HOSPITAL BASED INTERVENTION PROGRAM.

HE REACHED OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS BUT POLICE ON THE SCENE REFUSED TO ALLOW PHC MEMBERS TO RENDER ASSISTANCE.

THAT HAS FUELED ANGER AND HIGHLIGHTED THE LACK OF TRUST THAT EXISTS BETWEEN PATERSON POLICE AND THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE.

LET'S START OFF BY WELCOMING LEESA CHOWDRY WHO IS THE DIRECTOR AT PATTERSON HEALING COLLECTIVE AND TEDDY MARTINEZ.

WELCOME TO YOU BOTH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> LEESA, CAN YOU EXPAND ON MY DESCRIPTION OF THE PHC.

BASED OUT OF ST. JOSEPH'S HOSPITAL, YES?

>> YES.

WE ARE A HOSPITAL-BASED VIOLENCE INTERVENTION PROGRAM.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN SHOT AND THEY'RE PROBABLY GOING THROUGH ALL THIS TRAUMA AND, YOU KNOW, MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES AND CRISIS, WE ARRIVE AT THE BEDSIDE ONCE THEY GET SHOT AND WE PROVIDE THE SERVICES.

SINCE OUR INCEPTION WE HAVE HELPED OVER 250 GUNSHOT VICTIMS.

WE HELP THEM WITH CASE MANAGEMENT.

WE HELP LINK THEM TO MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES.

IF THEY HAVE EMERGENCY NEEDS LIKE HOUSING OR FOOD INSECURITY, WE TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY GET THOSE SERVICES.

TRY TO GET THEIR LIFE BACK ON TRACK.

THIS IS ALL BEING FUNDED THROUGH THE OAD'S OFFICE AND IT IS AN EVIDENCE-BASED PROGRAM AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT BASICALLY REDUCES VIOLENCE, ESPECIALLY RETALIATORY VIOLENCE BY 20% IN MOST OF THE CITIES IT'S BEEN IMPLEMENTED IN.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT INTERVENTION.

BEFORE SOMEONE IS INVOLVED IN A VIOLENT INCIDENT AS WELL?

>> WE DO.

WE ALSO PROVIDE SOCIAL/EMOTIONAL LEARNING IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM.

WE ALSO RECENTLY LAUNCHED ANOTHER INITIATIVE THROUGH THE AG'S OFFICE WHICH IS THE CDBDI GRAND-FUNDED PROGRAM.

WE HOLD A LEADERSHIP ACADEMY FOR FOLKS THAT ARE JUST AS INVOLVED OR VICTIMS OF VIOLENCE.

WE HAVE PREVENTION EFFORTS AS WELL.

>> HOW DID HE JOIN PHC?

>> HE WAS A SURVIVOR OF GUN VIOLENCE.

WE HAVE KNOWN HIM SINCE HE WAS 16.

I KNEW HE HAD A COMMITMENT TO MAKING HIS COMMUNITY BETTER.

AFTER HE WENT THROUGH OUR PROGRAM, THROUGH OUR SERVICES HE WANTED TO JOIN AND HELP LEAD THE CHARGE ON PEACE IN THE COMMUNITY.

HE CAME WITH US TO THE SCHOOLS TO TALK TO YOUNG FOLKS.

HE CREATED EVENTS.

HE HELPED US FACILITATE EVENTS IN HIS COMMUNITY.

HE WAS ALL AROUND SOMETHBODY TH WANTED TO GIVE BACK TO HIS COMMUNITY.

>> TEDDY, CAN YOU TELL US, YOU WERE AT THE SCENE LAST FRIDAY.

CAN YOU TELL US WHAT WAS HAPPENING AT THE SCENE?

NADGI REACHED OUT TO YOU AND OTHERS DIRECTLY FROM HIS HOME.

WHAT CAN YOU SAY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED WHEN YOU GOT THERE?

>> FIRST OF ALL, HE SHOULD NOT BE DEAD.

HE STILL SHOULD BE ALIVE TODAY.

AT 31 YEARS OF AGE, NADGI WAS FULL OF ENERGY.

HE WAS DEDICATING HIS LIFE AFTER BEING A GUNSHOT VICTIM TO BETTERING THE COMMUNITY.

HE MENTORED YOUNG KIDS AND HE WORKED TIRELESSLY TO SACH LIVES.

PRIOR TO ARRIVING TO THE SCENE, WE WERE GETTING PHONE CALLS AND DEATH THREATS FROM NADGI, THAT HE WANTED TO SEE ONE OF US AND HE WANTED TO HEAR OUR VOICES OR SEE OUR FACES, THAT HE WILL COME OUT.

THIS WAS RELATED TO SARGEANT SPAGNUOLO FROM THE PATH ERSON POLICE DEPARTMENT.

TRYING TO GAIN ENTRY AND ASSIST NADGI.

LIEUTENANT SPAGNUOLO TOOK IT UPON HIMSELF THAT THEY WOULD NOT USE OUR ASSISTANCE.

DESPITE WE WERE SHOWING HIM THE TEXT MESSAGES FROM NADGI ASKING FOR HELP, ME PERSONALLY, I BEGGED HIM ABOUT A DOZEN TIMES, I SPOKE TO EVERY OFFICER ALMOST ON THE SCENE TO TALK TO SPAGNUOLO TO TRY TO GET US IN THERE, TO TRY TO TALK NADGI DOWN.

WE HAD ALREADY -- AS TRAINED BE PROFESSIONALS, WE HAD ALREADY IDENTIFIED ONE OF HIS MENTORS SINCE HE WAS 16 YEARS OLD TO GO IN THERE TO TRY TO ASSIST HIM BUT WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR IS THEY HAD A FAMILY MEMBER ON THE SIDE THAT HE WAS NOT TIED TO THAT HE HAD NO REAL CONNECTIONS TO AND THE FAMILY MEMBER WHO'S ALSO LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY.

SO THERE WAS ALSO TRUST ISSUES THERE.

SO IN LIGHT OF THE ENTIRE SITUATION, WE LITERALLY BEGGED THEM FOR ABOUT FOUR HOURS, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING, TO ALLOW US ENTRY.

THEY PROMISED US THEY WOULD NOT HARM HIM.

SARGEANT SPAGNUOLO TOLD US PERSONALLY THAT HE WOULD WAIT -- IT WOULD TAKE TEN HOURS FOR THEM TO GET HIM OUT, THAT THEY WERE GOING TO WAIT.

THEY WERE GOING TO GET HIM OUT.

I SPOKE TO ONE OFFICER, I SAID, SO WHAT'S GOING ON?

HE SAID, OH, WE JUST TRYING TO TIRE HIM OUT.

MOMENTS LATER IT CREATED A CRIME SCENE.

THEY CAME OUT WITH CRIME SCENE TAPE, PUSHED US BACK, TOLD US TO GET BACK AND NOT EVEN 20 MINUTES LATER WE HEARD THREE GUNSHOTS WHICH TRAUMATIZED US ALL AT THE SCENE.

WE HAD BEEN PROMISED THEY WEREN'T GOING TO HARM HIM.

>> RIGHT.

>> THEY KNEW THEY HAD CRISIS INTERVENTION INDIVIDUALS ON SCENE TO ASSIST THIS INDIVIDUAL WHERE ME, MYSELF, JASON DAVIS, WE WORKED WITH THEM, THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES, TO TRAIN -- SPEAK ABOUT BEING TRAUMA INFORMED AND HOW TO DEAL WITH MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS.

THEY DENIED US ACCESS.

>> LEESA, WHAT TYPE OF RELATIONSHIP IS THERE BETWEEN THE PHC AND PATERSON POLICE DEPARTMENT?

>> WE HAVE HAD EVENTS IN THE COMMUNITY.

WE'VE HIRED THEM TO DO SECURITY.

WE'VE HAD COMMUNITY POLICING AT SOME OF OUR EVENTS.

YOU KNOW, I THINK RIGHT NOW IT'S MAKING SURE THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT UNDERSTANDS WE ARE DEFINITELY A COMPLIMENTARY STRATEGY TO PUBLIC SAFETY.

I'M NOT SURE IF THAT DAY THEY TOOK THAT SERIOUSLY, THAT WE ALSO HAVE CREDIBILITY AND THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, HE ASKED FOR OUR SUPPORT, RIGHT?

IT'S JUST PROBLEMATIC.

SO THAT'S WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW, THAT THIS SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.

THEY SHOULD HAVE USED ALL TACTICS AND ONE OF THOSE TACTICS WAS US.

>> YEAH.

THE STATE ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK THAT RECENTLY THEY WERE INCREASING FUNDING FOR THE ARRIVE TOGETHER PROGRAM, WHICH I'M SURE YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH.

LE $10 MILLION TO EXPAND IT.

IS THAT ENOUGH, LEESA, WHEN PATERSON SPENDS $43 MILLION ON POLICE?

>> I'M GOING TO BE HONEST.

I THINK THEY NEED TO LOOK AT OTHER MODELS THAT INCLUDE UNARMED CIVILIANS TO ARRIVE FOR MENTAL HEALTH CASES.

WHAT IS TO SAY IF A MENTAL -- IF LAW ENFORCEMENT ARE THERE, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE OVER THE SCENE.

WE'VE HEARD SO MANY TIMES AGAIN AND AGAIN AROUND THIS COUNTRY THAT FOR SOME REASON WHEN BLACK MEN HAVE A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS, POLICE CONTINUE TO USE LETHAL FORCE.

MAYBE WE NEED TO AS A COUNTRY, AS A STATE RE-EXAMINE THE USE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AT ALL IN THOSE TYPE OF SITUATIONS.

THIS WOULD BE ONE OF THEM.

THEY HAD A GUN THERE AND GUESS WHAT THEY DID?

THEY USED THE GUN.

FOUR HOURS, TEN HOURS, THEY SHOULD HAVE WAITED ALL DAY.

THEY SHOULD HAVE USED US AS THE CRISIS INTERVENTION GROUP THAT'S AFFILIATED WITH HIM, THEY SHOULD HAVE USED ALL AVENUES.

SO, NO, I DON'T THINK THAT ARRIVE IS ENOUGH.

I UNDERSTAND THAT'S BEING TAUTED BECAUSE IT'S AN EVIDENCE -- IT'S A PROGRAM BEING PILOTED IN THE COUNTY BUT THERE'S OTHER NATIONAL MODELS THAT SHOW THAT UNARMED CIVILIAN PROGRAMS WORK JUST AS WELL.

NEWARK ALSO HAS, YOU KNOW, A MODEL THAT WE CAN LOOK AT SO I THINK THAT WE NEED TO REALLY, REALLY, REALLY THINK ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND BLACK COMMUNITIES AND LET'S -- THIS IS A MONUMENTAL TIME FOR US AS A STATE AND AS A CITY TO REALLY RE-EXAMINE HOW WE DEAL WITH MENTAL HEALTH AND HOW SERIOUSLY WE'RE TAKING AS FAR AS THE CHANGE BETWEEN THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

>> TEDDY, POLICE HAVE IDENTIFIED SOME OF THE OFFICERS INVOLVED.

THE BODY CAM FOOTAGE WILL COME OUT SOON ENOUGH.

WHAT IS YOUR HOPE FOR WHAT COMES OUT OF THIS?

>> I HOPE -- MY HOPE FOR WHAT COMES OUT OF IT, I HOPE THE TRUTH COME OUT OF IT.

I HOPE THEY SEE THE INCONSISTENCIES IN THEIR STORIES AND TO SHOW NADGI WAS NOT THE AGGRESSOR, THEY HAD BEEN AGITATING AND HAD BEEN CALLED TO AN EMERGENTLY DISTURBED PERSON AND THEY DID NOT ASSESS THE SITUATION PROPERLY.

OFFICERS NEED TO BE TERMINATED THAT RESPONDED AND OFFICERS THAT ALSO WAS ON THE SCENE THERE, THEY ALL NEED TO BE TERMINATED BASED ON THE FACT OF THE FOOTAGE THAT COMES OUT OF IT.

>> LEESA, ANY REASON FOR OPTIMISM COMING OUT OF THIS TRAGEDY?

>> THE FAMILY NEEDS JUSTICE.

HE SHOULD STILL BE ALIVE.

EVERYTHING THE FAMILY WANTS TO GET.

NADGI NEEDS TO BE AT THE CENTER OF THIS.

I DON'T WANT THIS TO BECOME A DEBATE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, ABOUT PROGRAMMING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

HE NEEDS JUSTICE.

HE SHOULD BE HERE TODAY AND THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY.

AND THE STATE -- WE SHOULD BE ALARMED THAT THEY USED LETHAL FORCE TO DEAL WITH MENTAL HEALTH FOR A YOUNG MAN THAT ASKED FOR HELP.

SO I THINK RIGHT NOW THE CENTERING OF THIS IS HE AND HIS FAMILY DESERVE JUSTICE.

ANY NEEDS OR WANTS THAT THEY DEMAND, THEY NEED TO GET.

>> LEESA, TEDDY, PATERSON HEALING COLLECTIVE.

OUR CONDOLENCES ON THE LOSS OF YOUR FRIEND AND COLLEAGUE.

I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME TODAY.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU JOOK MEANWHILE, MAYOR ANDRE SAYAH HAS COME UNDER FIRE IN RESPONSE TO THIS INCIDENT SPECIFICALLY AND TO THE FRACTURED RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE POLICE AND PATERSONIANS IN GENERAL.

WE TRIED TO TALK TO THE MAYOR SEVERAL TIMES AND ASKED HIM TO COME ON THE PROGRAM TODAY.

AT FIRST HE AGREED, THEN HE BACKED OUT.

WE DID GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK HIM QUESTION AT AN UNRELATED EVENT AND WE ASKED HIM WHAT HE THOUGHT ABOUT CALLS FOR STATE AND FEDERAL INTERVENTION IN THE PATERSON POLICE DEPARTMENT.

HERE'S HIS RESPONSE IN FULL.

>> UNRELATED.

>> YES, I KIND OF FIGURED.

>> YOU CAME FOR THE FOOD.

>> SO YESTERDAY IT WAS THIS LARGE DEMONSTRATION IN FRONT OF CITY HALL AND A LOT OF PEOPLE THERE CALLING FOR STATE OR FEDERAL INTERVENTION INTO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THEM?

TELL US WHAT THE LATEST IS ON THE SITUATION AND HOW -- >> THANKS.

WHEN I BECAME MAYOR, NOT A SINGLE POLICE OFFICER IN PATERSON WORE A BODY CAMERA.

NOW EVERY SINGLE POLICE OFFICER IN PATERSON WEARS A BODY CAMERA.

WHY WAS I SO ADAMANT ABOUT EQUIPPING OUR POLICE OFFICERS WITH A BODY CAMERA?

WELL, WE NEED ACCOUNTABILITY.

WE NEED TRANSPARENCY.

WE NEED THE TRUTH.

WE DEMAND THE TRUTH AND THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING FOR THE IMMEDIATE RELEASE OF THE BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE.

>> WHAT ABOUT STATE OR FEDERAL INTERVENTION INTO THIS POLICE DEPARTMENT WHICH HAS A PRETTY BAD RECORD AND YOU, YOURSELF, HAVE HAD TO DISCIPLINE OFFICERS -- >> RIGHT.

>> -- YOU'VE FIRED THE CHIEF.

I MEAN, THE DEPARTMENT IS IN ROUGH SHAPE.

>> YES.

YOU MENTIONED -- >> CALLED IT WILL A ROGUE ORGANIZATION.

>> YEAH.

I FIRED THE CHIEF.

HIRED A NEW CHIEF, WHO SHARES MY VISION OF INVESTING IN COMMUNITY POLICING SO WE CAN RESTORE THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE POLICE AND THE PUBLIC.

ONE OF THE TOOLS FOR TRUST THAT I UNVEILED FOUR YEARS AGO CALLED FOR AN AUDIT OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND MOST OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE EITHER ACCOMPLISHED, WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED IMPLEMENTING THEM, OR WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF DOING SO, BUT A MAJOR PART OF THE TOOLS FOR TRUST WAS THE BODY CAMERA AND THAT GAVE ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO IDENTIFY ON CAMERA A POLICE OFFICER WHO ASSAULTED AN UNARMED MAN AND I TOOK THE UNPRECEDENTED STEP OF JUST FIRING HIM AND NOT LETTING DUE PROCESS PLAY OUT BECAUSE IT WAS THAT FLAGRANT.

BUT THERE'S GOING TO BE MORE TOOLS FOR TRUST THAT WE HAVE TO ROLL OUT IN THE WAKE OF WHAT HAS JUST HAPPENED.

I HAVE TO REMIND EVERYONE, IT'S AN ONGOING INVESTIGATION.

SO WE KNOW THAT MENTAL HEALTH IS -- ILLNESS IS A SERIOUS SITUATION.

AND LAST YEAR IDENTIFYING THE NEED FOR MORE ASSISTANCE IN THAT AREA, WE APPLIED FOR A GRANT FOR RESPONSE AND THE CONNECT AND PROTECT INITIATIVE WOULD HAVE MENTAL HEALTH COMMISSIONS ACCOMPANY POLICE OFFICERS ON ANY CALL FOR AN EMOTIONALLY DISTURBED PERSON.

IN FACT, AS A FRAME OF REFERENCE, LOS ANGELES DID IT WHEN THEY HAD SMART CARS ACCOMPANYING THESE POLICE OFFICERS THAT HAD MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS ARRIVE ON THE SCENE AS WELL.

SO THAT'S PART OF WHAT WE'RE GOING TO ROLL OUT AS WELL.

I KNOW THAT BACK IN 2019 I ALSO CALLED FOR A CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD.

I'M STILL CALLING FOR IT.

UNFORTUNATELY IT'S STILL TIED UP IN COURT.

THE TOOLS FOR TRUST, MOST THAT I HAD OUTLINED IN THE PAST HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED BUT THERE'S A NEW NEED FOR MORE TOOLS FOR TRUST BECAUSE IT IS CRITICAL TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP, A POSITIVE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE POLICE AND THE PUBLIC.

>> BUT, MAYOR, YOU DIDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION THERE ABOUT A STATE OR FEDERAL INTERVENTION INTO THIS DEPARTMENT.

>> YOU'RE SAYING THIS STEMS FROM THIS RECENT INCIDENT, WHICH I HAVE STATED IS STILL UNDER INVESTIGATION.

SO LET THIS INVESTIGATION CONCLUDE.

>> IT'S NOT, MAYOR.

IT'S NOT ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR INCIDENT.

THIS IS THE LATEST EXAMPLE BUT, I MEAN, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS IS A ROGUE AGENCY FOR A WHILE NOW.

THE BASIC QUESTION IS DO YOU THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF IT WAS OFFERED, WOULD YOU SUPPORT IT?

>> SO REFERRING TO THE ROBBERY SQUAD, IT WAS OUR DEPARTMENT THAT BROUGHT IT TO THE ATTENTION OF AUTHORITIES THAT TOOK ACTION AND HAVING THESE BODY CAMERAS HELPS US ENSURE MORE ACCOUNTABILITY.

SO I DON'T WANT TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION YET AS FAR AS INTERVENTION IS CONCERNED BECAUSE I KNOW THAT EMOTIONS ARE RUNNING HIGH RIGHT NOW AND I JUST WANT THE BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE TO BE RELEASED AND THEN WE CAN DISCUSS HOW WE GO FORWARD.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THAT'S MAYOR SAYAH FROM AN UNRELATED PRESS EVENT EARLIER THIS WEEK IN PATERSON.

LET'S BRING IN DR. WELL DONE McWILLIAMS.

HE IS A PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AND A SENIOR PASTOR OF CHRIST BAPTIST TEMPLE CHURCH IN PATERSON.

WELCOME TO "CHAT BOX."

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

HOW ARE YOU?

>> GOOD.

YOU SAW THE MAYOR'S RESPONSE OR LACK THEREOF ON WHETHER THERE'S A NEED FOR OUTSIDE INTERVENTION.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF HIS ANSWER?

>> WELL, I THINK, AS YOU JUST SUGGESTED, IT WAS A LACK OF AN ANSWER.

I THINK IT WAS VERY EVASIVE.

I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A VERY SERIOUS DISCUSSION THAT CENTERS ON THE REIMAGINATION -- REIMAGINING WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TO POLICE AND COMMUNITIES OF COLOR AND WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE OR WHAT DOES COMMUNITY SAFETY LOOK LIKE IN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR.

THERE NEEDS TO BE A SERIOUS DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT AND IT'S A DISCUSSION THAT MUST INCLUDE COMMUNITY.

THERE CANNOT BE A DISCUSSION THAT IS SOLELY WITH THE POLICE, SOLELY WITH THE POLITICIANS.

THAT HAS TO INCLUDE THE COMMUNITY AS WELL.

>> YOU HEAR A LOT OF SLOGANEERING, TOOLS OF TRUST, ARRIVE TOGETHER WHICH MUST ADD SOME FRUSTRATION WHEN YOU SEE WHAT THE REALITY IS ON THE STREET IN PLACES LIKE PATERSON AND ELSEWHERE AROUND THE STATE.

IS THE MAYOR AND IS THE POLICE DIRECTOR, ARE THEY ALLIES?

>> I HONESTLY DON'T KNOW, BUT I DO BELIEVE THEY'RE LACKING IN WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE COMMUNITY.

I THINK THEIR LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THE COMMUNITY POLICING RELATES TO THE COMMUNITY IS SHOWING WHEN YOU HEAR THE CONSTANT REGURGITATION OF THE SLOGANS.

THE EXPERIENCE OF THE COMMUNITY IS MUCH DIFFERENT.

IT'S FEAR.

IT'S TERROR.

IT'S CONCERN.

THAT'S THE -- THOSE ARE THE SLOGANS THAT THE COMMUNITY IN PATERSON WOULD BE FAMILIAR WITH WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE PATERSON POLICE.

SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE.

TOO MUCH LOSS OF LIFE.

TOO MUCH UNNECESSARY VIOLENCE.

OUR BROTHER NADGI AND THE HEALING COLLECTIVE WORKED TO ERADICATE THESE ISSUES, AND IT'S A TIME TO GO BEYOND SLOGANS NOW.

WE NEED SOME REAL TANGIBLE CHANGE, AND SLOGANS AND CATCH PHRASES, THAT'S NOT ENOUGH.

THAT'S NOT GOING TO DO IT.

>> IT'S BEEN OVER I GUESS FIVE YEARS SINCE YOU BECAME PASTOR.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT THOSE YEARS HAVE BEEN LIKE FOR PARTICULARLY THE YOUNG MEN IN YOUR CONGREGATION AND BEYOND?

>> WELL, IT'S BEEN FIVE YEARS, ALMOST FIVE YEARS OR ABOUT -- ABOUT FIVE YEARS OF PASTORING HERE IN PATERSON AND FOR MY CONGREGANTS, MEN AND WOMEN, WE ALL RECOGNIZE THERE'S MUCH WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IN THE AREA OF POLICING.

WE BELIEVE THAT IN THE CITY OF PATERSON THAT IF YOU WANT TO REALLY ABSOLVE LEVELS OF CRIME, THAT YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO INVEST IN RESOURCES.

YOU HAVE TO BRING RESOURCES TO PATERSON.

WE CAN'T LIVE IN THE CITY WHERE THERE'S A LACK OF RESOURCES AND EVERYBODY IS OUT HERE FENDING FOR THEMSELVES, COMPETING FOR THOSE RESOURCES.

WE NEED RESOURCES IN PATTERSON AND THERE'S A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF THAT FROM PEOPLE AMONGST MY CONGREGATION AND BEYOND.

THOSE WHO WORK EVERY DAY IN PATTERSON, THOSE WHO HAVE THEIR FEET TO THE GROUND, THOSE WHO GO INTO THESE COMMUNITIES AND TRY TO IMPROVE THESE COMMUNITIES ON A DAILY BASIS.

SO THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE KNOW NEED TO HAPPEN.

WE NEED TO ADDRESS AREAS AND THE ANSWER TO SOME OF THESE ISSUES IS NOT MORE POLICE.

THAT'S NOT THE ANSWER.

>> YOU SPOKE AT THE VIGIL ON TUESDAY AND YOU SAID TOO MANY PEOPLE HAVE THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE EVERY DAY BECAUSE THEY DEAL WITH THE RACIST SYSTEM THAT CONSTANTLY CRIMINALIZEs THEM AND TELLS THEM THAT THEY ARE NOT HUMAN.

IS THAT WHERE PATERSON LAW ENFORCEMENT IS RIGHT NOW?

>> I BELIEVE THAT'S EXACTLY HOW THE INSTITUTION OF POLICE LOOK AT MANY WITHIN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, THAT WE ARE TREATED AS SUBHUMAN AND OUR LIVES ARE ON THE LINE EVERY DAY BECAUSE WE NEVER KNOW WHEN AN INTERACTION WITH THE POLICE MAY BE A FATAL ONE.

WE NEVER KNOW IF OUR INTERACTION WITH POLICE IS ONE WHERE POLICE SEE US AS HUMAN BEINGS AND THEY WILL TREAT US AS WHOLE HUMAN BEINGS.

SO WHEN I STATED THAT EVERY DAY OUR LIVES -- PEOPLE HAVE THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE, I MEANT THAT QUITE LITERALLY.

EVERY DAY DEPENDING ON HOW OTHERS MAY VIEW US OUR LIVES MAY, INDEED, BE ON THE LINE.

FOR THOSE WHO VIEW MANY IN THE COMMUNITY AS LESS THAN HUMAN AND DON'T SEE US AS WHOLE, DON'T SEE THOSE IN THE COMMUNITY AS WHOLE PEOPLE, A LOT OF TIMES THEY FEEL THAT GIVES THEM LICENSE TO TREAT US AND OTHERS IN THE COMMUNITY ANY TYPE OF WAY.

SO I'M VERY LITERAL AND SERIOUS WHEN I SAY THERE ARE MANY IN THE COMMUNITY WHO LIVE EVERY DAY WITH THEIR LIFE ON THE LINE BECAUSE THEY NEVER KNOW WHEN AN INTERACTION WITH POLICE MAY BE A FATAL OR A LAST ONE.

>> YOU ALSO SAID DIRECTLY TO THE POWER STRUCTURE OF THE CITY, IF YOU'RE TOO SCARED TO MAKE THE NECESSARY CHANGE, MOVE OUT THE WAY.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

SO THAT THOSE WHO HAVE THE PEOPLE -- HAVE THE PEOPLE AND WORK WITH THE PEOPLE CAN DO RIGHT BY THE PEOPLE?

>> YES.

SO THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WORK EVERY DAY IN THE CITY OF PATERSON.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THE HARD AND NECESSARY WORK OF MAKING SURE THOSE IN THE COMMUNITY HAVE RESOURCES THAT THEY NEED.

WE WANT A COMMUNITY THAT'S NOT JUST USED TO SURVIVING.

WE NEED A COMMUNITY THAT WILL THRIVE AND THRIVING -- WHEN YOU LIVE IN A WAY IN WHICH YOU'RE THRIVING, THAT'S A LOT DIFFERENT THAN LIVING IN A WAY WHERE YOU'RE JUST SURVIVING.

WE NEED LEADERS WITH POLITICAL WILL.

WE NEED LEADERS WITH STRENGTH TO SAY, LOOK, WE WANT TO CREATE A COMMUNITY, WE WANT TO CREATE AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE YOU'RE THRIVING.

THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT WORK EVERY DAY TO BRING THAT TYPE OF COMMUNITY TO LIGHT.

THOSE WHO MAY BE FEARFUL OR SCARED TO DO THE WORK THAT IS NECESSARY, WHETHER THAT MEANS FEARFUL IN THEIR EMOTIONS, WHETHER THAT MEANS IT'S POLITICALLY COSTLY, WHATEVER CAUSES THAT FEAR, WE JUST NEED YOU TO MOVE OUT THE WAY BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE INVESTED IN SEEING A PATERSON TRULY BE A PATERSON THAT IT'S INTENDED TO BE.

A PATERSON WHERE RESOURCES ARE AVAILABLE AND THAT PEOPLE CAN FLOURISH.

>> THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT ORGANIZATIONS LIKE PATERSON HEALING COLLECTIVE HAVE BEEN CREATED TO DO, RIGHT?

>> EXACTLY.

ORGANIZATIONS LIKE PATERSON HEALING COLLECTIVE, AND I KNOW THERE ARE SEVERAL OTHER GRASS ROOT ORGANIZATIONS OUT THERE JUST TRYING -- HOPING THEY CAN GET SOME FUNDING, BUT YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THEIR EVERYDAY LIFE, IN THEIR EVERYDAY MOVEMENT BECAUSE THEY CARE FOR THE COMMUNITY, THEY'RE WILLING TO DO RIGHT BY THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE THEY ARE OF AND IN THE COMMUNITY.

AND THOSE ARE THE FOLKS WHO ARE NOT AFRAID TO DO THE THINGS NECESSARY TO BRING ABOUT JUSTICE, FAIRNESS AND EQUALITY INTO THE CITY.

>> BY THE WAY, WE SHOULD SAY THAT WE REACHED OUT ALSO TO THE CITY'S PUBLIC SAFETY DIRECTOR SEVERAL TIMES OVER THE PAST WEEK AND DID NOT GET A RESPONSE.

PASTOR, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT CALLS FOR INTERVENTION, EITHER STATE OR FEDERAL?

I MEAN, THAT IS THE SYSTEM YOU TALKED ABOUT EARLIER THIS WEEK AND JUST NOW.

>> YEAH.

SO WE PERSONALLY -- I DEFINITELY UNDERSTAND TO HAVE SOME INTERVENTION AND OVERSIGHT OVER THE PATERSON POLICE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE THE PATERSON POLICE DEPARTMENT HAVE DEFINITELY COMMITTED SOME ACTIONS THAT ARE HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE AND SOME JUST DEEMED OUTRIGHT UNACCEPTABLE, BUT I FOR ONE BELIEVE, AGAIN, WE NEED A COMPLETE REIMAGINATION OF WHAT POLICING AND WHAT PUBLIC SAFETY LOOKS LIKE AND I'M NOT SURE IF THOSE ON THE STATE LEVEL OR ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL HAVE THAT TYPE OF IMAGINATION.

>> YEAH.

>> THAT IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE PUSHED.

WE NEED A REIMAGINING OF THE SYSTEM.

BEING AS FRANK AS I CAN BE.

WE PROBABLY NEED TO REPLACE THE SYSTEM WITH SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND THOSE ARE THE DISCUSSIONS THAT I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE.

>> WHICH TAKES ME TO MY NEXT QUESTION.

IN YOUR MIND, WHAT DOES A REFORMED PATTERSON POLICE DEPARTMENT LOOK LIKE?

WOULD YOU EVEN CALL IT A POLICE DEPARTMENT?

WHAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT?

>> THAT'S A GREAT POINT.

I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL OF THE WORDING.

WE HAVE TO REALLY LOOK AT HOW WE DEFINE THINGS AND HOW WE UTILIZE DIFFERENT TERMS BUT, YOU KNOW, I WOULD -- I DON'T WANT TO GIVE MYSELF AN INFLATED SENSE OF IMPORTANCE.

I DON'T KNOW IF I HAVE THE ANSWER MYSELF.

MYSELF I DO BELIEVE IT WILL INVOLVE COMMUNITY, DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES BUT I DO BELIEVE IT HAS TO LOOK MUCH DIFFERENT THAN THIS.

WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY THAT COMMUNITY CAN HAVE MORE SAY IN THE STANDARDS THAT THEY PROMOTE AND COMMUNITY WILL HAVE MORE SAY ABOUT WHAT IS DONE WHEN PEOPLE VIOLATE THOSE COMMUNITY STANDARDS.

BUT I REALLY LOOK AT IT WHERE THE COMMUNITY CAN BE THE CENTER AND THE FOCAL POINT OF WHAT THAT NEW VERSION OF POLICING, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, WOULD BE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

SENIOR PASTOR AT CHRIST TEMPLE BAPTIST CHURCH IN PATERSON.

GREAT TO MEET YOU.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> NICE TO MEET YOU.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>>> THAT'S "CHAT BOX" IN WEEK.

YOU CAN FOLLOW ME ON TWI TWITTER @DAVIDCRUZ.

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

FROM THE ENTIRE CREW HERE AT GATEWAY CENTER IN DOWNTOWN NEWARK, THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>>> MAJOR FUNDING FOR "CHAT BOX" WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY THE MEMBERS OF THE NEW JERSEY EDUCATION ASSOCIATION MAKING PUBLIC SCHOOLS GREAT FOR EVERY CHILD.

MJM INSURANCE GROUP.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY INSIDER NJ, A POLITICAL INTELLIGENCE NETWORK DEDICATED TO NEW JERSEY POLITICAL NEWS.

INSIDER NJ IS COMMITTED TO GIVING SERIOUS POLITICAL PLAYERS AN INTERACTIVE FORUM FOR IDEAS, DISCUSSION AND INSIGHT.

ONLINE AT INSIDERNJ.COM.