>> major funding for Reporters Roundtable is provided by RWJ Barnabas Health.

Let's be healthy together.

♪ David: budget woes are coming.

Is it too early to say I told you so?

Hi everybody.

It's Reporters Roundtable.

Our panel today includes social justice writer for NJ Spotlight News, reporter with the Associated Press, and reporter for Politico NJ.

We hear from the panel in just a bit but we begin today with reaction to word that the governor is calling on his cabinet to make 5% cuts across the board.

The fiscal cliff it seems is nine.

Republicans are saying, just as we predicted.

Here to put that more eloquently is the state Senate Republican budget officer.

Welcome back to roundtable.

>> thanks for having me.

I don't know that I will be more eloquent but I will try.

David: both of us will.

Dried up federal money, tough economic times.

What is it?

>> all of it.

All of it was predictable.

We knew we had a structural deficit really the entire time.

It was just papered over with federal money, unnecessarily borrowed money.

Republicans saying that during this entire administration, we have an opportunity to fix our budget.

To do reforms that were reasonable.

That labor would have bought into.

It was all ignored.

Now we will be left with a big steaming pile of deficit.

Again, over $4 billion in structural deficit.

A lot of people report to billion because that's what we spent on our surplus.

That's not the case.

We still have a billion dollars of money that was supposed to go to transit last year.

It has to go to transit this year.

David: say what that is.

>> the corporate business tax that we increased after the governor took credit for decreasing it.

The next year, we increased it.

Calling it something different.

It's the same thing.

That money was stolen last year.

Another $600 million of debt defeasance and avoidance money.

3.6.

It's easy to come up to get you over 4 billion.

That's going to be a problem with federal money drying up.

It's going to be a problem.

Had we done things differently, just followed some simple Republican advice, we would be in a much different place right now.

We would be on the verge of fiscal solvency for the first time in Jersey's history in 70 years.

But that didn't happen.

Now the job will be much more difficult.

We are asking for these 5% cuts in anticipation of this.

That's garbage.

Should have been acting responsibly over the past seven years.

We could have fixed New Jersey.

David: people don't realize that a lot of the jelly in the jelly doughnut was federal money that's no longer there.

Or won't be there very soon.

>> that is true.

Not at all a surprise.

We knew what was going on.

That federal money should have bought us breathing room to fix New Jersey long-term.

That didn't happen.

We sucked all the jelly out of the doughnut and now we will be left with the deficit.

David: we asked the state treasurer about what Republicans like you are saying.

Her response was, stop your whining.

I'm paraphrasing.

Let's hear from her directly and we will come back.

>> it has been painful physically to make that payment.

This year for instance, $7 billion.

If prior administrations, including the one that we took over from, had been paying their full pension payment, it would have cost us a little over one billion.

That's the penalty payment that this administration and these legislatures have been having to pay.

For full payments now.

You can do the math.

David: I don't remember a lot of Republicans criticizing Chris Christie from -- for not making pension payments.

>> Chris Christie inherited a budget when there were no payments being made.

Horrific.

Republican administrations.

Chris Christie's administration was the one that set us on the path to full payments.

I was there.

I was one of the authors of the legislation.

So let's not rewrite history.

There was no way for Chris Christie to find the billions in the budget that would've been necessary to instantly make full payments.

We instituted the ramp up to full payments.

This administration just followed the ramp that the Christie administration put in place.

They didn't accelerate it or make full pension payments.

So a garbage argument.

I'm not going to let anyone rewrite that history.

Chris Christie put us on the past a full payments.

Like it or not, that was one of the most responsible sets of legislation that New Jersey has passed in the past 30 years.

Governor Murphy just followed it.

That's a ridiculous argument.

David: 15 seconds to vamp on that.

Stay NJ.

>> worthless.

Almost impossible to fund.

I would love it if we could.

It was a campaign process -- promise from a cycle ago.

The governor and the legislature setting the next governor Rob for a disaster.

David: yet at the same time, you gave us one of our Jersey moments of the year when you talked about how terrible this program was and then voted for it.

>> here's the thing.

I'm not going to get set up voting against property tax relief.

I hope we can make it a high priority and get it done.

But mathematically, there's no way to get there.

I'm not going to vote against trying but we have to be honest and say it's not me who had a contradictory position.

It's the people that didn't talk about the things I talked about.

Act like it's going to happen.

Give me a break.

If you include stay NJ and the structural deficit that I talked about before, you go from 4 billion to 6 billion.

Good luck with that.

David: we saw a few of the prospective governors at this New Jersey business and industry Association forum this week.

Who is the budget hawk in that group?

>> they will all be much more responsible than this administration.

They all get it.

I have spoken to everything the one of them.

They will be sober stewards of the mass that they are going to inherit.

I have to tell you, I would not want to be covering this next term.

-- governor in this next term.

Tremendous whole.

Very tough to deal with.

I happen to be backing Jack to the rally.

We will be in good shape no matter who the governor is.

If it's a Republican.

We have a really good group of guys.

They will be much more responsible than this administration.

It will be really tough to deal with.

Mathematically, it's very hard to figure out how we get out of the hole that this administration will leave us.

David: Senate GOP budget officer, good to see you.

Thanks for coming on with us.

Have a great holiday.

>> thanks.

David: all right panel.

Good to see you all.

Let's start with the budget here.

A social justice writer for NJ Spotlight News is making her round table W today.

Welcome.

>> thank you.

David: so yours, a new beat at NJ Spotlight.

Tell us a little about your focus.

>> yeah.

I cover communities of color, LGBTQ communities, people with disabilities.

It's a pretty wide-ranging beat that covers all different parts of the state, different people, different neighborhoods.

I focus on civil rights, social justice is all-encompassing.

It's a catchall.

David: in lieu of the commemorative mug, you get the first question of the panel segment.

I'm thinking of some of the groups who are dependent on the state government budget funding for their constituencies.

This can't be good news for them.

What's the level of concern out there?

>> I think I've heard from a few advocates that they are concerned.

They are worried about a tight budget, especially when there's been several different pilot programs for alternative policing organizations.

They already don't have enough money to carry out those programs and they need more.

Everyone does need more money to carry out some of these more complex programs in these neighborhoods.

But I think advocates on the social justice side are going to keep pushing and trying to make the case as they still have Governor Murphy's ear.

We don't know who's going to be the next governor.

David: chickens coming home to roost, as Declan O Scanlon suggests.

Or prudent stewardship as the state treasurer suggests?

>> that's interesting.

What stands out to me about the situation we are in is the governor hasn't really experienced in austerity budget.

He came in on the promise of raising taxes and he did that.

COVID financially for the state ended up being a boon because of money from the federal government.

Here we are headed into the governor Tory election year with governor mercy -- Murphy having to decide, will there need to be cuts?

are there more taxes that he wants to raise?

at this point, we are left with more questions than answers.

2 five-part -- david: 5% across-the-board is not quite Asteria yet, is it?

>> I think that goes back to the groups that Taylor was talking to.

If you are talking to them about a 5% cut, can anybody afford to take on -- a 5% haircut?

I bet they would say no.

David: yeah.

You've been haunting the statehouse.

What are you hearing, if anything, about this budget from lawmakers?

it is early in the budget process.

>> it certainly is.

I think one really important thing to keep in mind is that as we all talk about the gubernatorial election coming up, so is the entire state assembly.

With that comes -- lawmakers could be hesitant to do something like raise taxes.

They may be hesitant for the Democrats to exclude some of what we call Christmas tree items.

Items for special district.

Lawmakers like to tout those funding accomplishments during election season.

I think that's one important thing to keep in mind.

Is there any appetite for a tax increase?

what does this mean for something like the state NJ program which is supposed to cut property taxes in half.

Traditionally, tax programs are usually some of the first things to go when the budget gets tight like this.

Where it ends up, we will see.

David: that one could go before it even arrives.

Come Monday, New Jersey will have a new United States Senator.

We had Andy Kim on Chat Box this week.

Mike, we will look back at the zero is a historic one in New Jersey.

Andy Kim is going to be at the center of it, no?

>> Andy Kim was responsible in large part for the death of the county line.

He brought the lawsuit in.

Something that advocates have been pushing for for years.

Kim's lawsuit in the context of candy Murphy seemed to be the straw that broke the camels back.

Then he got elected to the U.S. Senate.

He's established himself as a heavyweight political force.

Now he gets to be a U.S.

Senator for a month before the rest of the class starts in 2025.

David: for sure a trailblazer, given that he's the first Korean American in the United States Senate.

He's also transcended.

He brought the political machines to their knees by helping to kill the party line.

>> right.

Even Andy Kim has set himself, he recognizes the importance of his position and being the first Korean American senator in the U.S..

He also hopes that people will move beyond his race.

There tends to be a lot of focus on his race, especially during election season.

There have been some racist mailers, as you might remember.

It will be interesting to see how he breaks out and carves space, especially since Senator Menendez was such a staunch immigrant advocate.

As we are heading into the Trump presidency with all this talk about mass deportations, will Andy Kim take some of that on?

he talks a lot about affordability.

We will have to see what he makes as his platform.

David: this is either the worst time or the best time to be entering the Senate.

He's a freshman.

He's in the minority.

A new administration help balance -- hell-bent on radical policies.

Are you thinking Andy Kim or Tom Kim Junior on your fantasy football league?

>> figure point, it is quite hard to govern when you are in the minority party.

Especially since we are looking at a Republican trifecta with President Donald Trump, Republicans controlled Congress to get even a very conservative leaning U.S. Supreme Court.

I think it's a very valid question as to what Andy can -- Andy Kim can get done for the first two years because the midterm is coming up in 2026.

And to your point, I think this Republican majority is going to be very interesting for someone like Tom Kane Junior.

There will be a lot more pressure for Republicans to vote in line with the party, especially with such a slim margin in the House of Representatives.

That could force him to make those that are unpopular in his purple district.

He may have to take some votes that are further to the right of where his constituents are.

We will see where it lands.

David: we were both out a policy forum with the New Jersey business industry Association.

We survived the governor's panel.

What did you take away from it?

>> part of what I think is very interesting is just how much the candidates for governor will always go back to the core themes of what they write on.

This was a panel about the business climate in Texas.

-- and taxes.

The first thing that the Jersey City governor mentioned was primarily ballot design and the importance of running competitive primaries.

In his estimation, how that factors into governance.

He's also a conservative radio host, talking about illegal immigration which has been the cornerstone of his campaign.

Talking about the importance of pensions as he's made a pitch to public-sector unions, which is a very large part of his coalition should he ultimately become governor.

That's what stood out to me.

I don't think it made a lot of news.

I know Steve Sweeney mentioned that he wanted children from birth going to school.

I'm not sure what that entails.

This is the first of many more gubernatorial forums since there are 10 candidates running for governor.

Soon it could be 11.

David: we will see Mikey Cheryl and Josh Gottheimer at one of these.

So far they've been able to cite scheduling conflicts as a reason why they hadn't been able to get to any of these yet.

My cat Illini.

Is 2025 on your radar yet?

>> yes it is.

David: what are you taking away from what you've heard so far?

>> I've been interested in who is getting support from home.

I noticed Sean Spiller as the head of the and GEA.

Seems to have to the -- have the teachers in his corner.

Fire fighters are behind Mikey Cheryl.

Josh Gottheimer talking about support in Bergen County which is a keystone counting in the Democratic primary or any primary in the state.

Steve Sweeney consolidating the South, so it seems.

Every candidate seems to have their own little niche support.

And there's also -- if you look at who is financing them and the money that they are already showing on the table, that is significant as well.

What I see is a campaign that looks like it will be the most interesting in my 10 years in the state house.

Kristy's reelection in 2013, he won overwhelmingly.

After two terms of Kristi, it seemed like a shoe in for a Democrat to win.

We remember 2021.

The polls were showing it was like a two point Murphy lead and it ended up being closer but nonetheless, that race looked as if it was in the Democrats corner.

So now we are heading into a contest where we don't know how the Trump Administration and politics will play out in New Jersey.

We are not sure voters reaction to eight years after Democratic control of the governorship and the legislature will affect the race.

So to me, there's a lot of unanswered questions and there's going to be a lot to cover and understand.

David: who is the progressive in this race?

certainly not Steve Sweeney.

>> now.

I would say probably Mayor Baraka is the closest, given all of his policies that he's put forth in Newark AmSouth.

Whether it's affordable housing and his thoughts on policing and whatnot.

Fulop things of himself as someone that is a little bit progressive.

But the communities that I have spoken to in Jersey City aren't necessarily a big fan of him, especially on how he's defended some police actions.

So it will be interesting to see how it pans out.

In general, people who are left-leaning voters are looking for really progressive populist candidates.

Ones with really transformative economic policies.

That's part of why Trump was able to get so many voters this past election.

If the New Jersey government wants to learn anything from this past election, it would be to push some of those progressive policies forward.

David: Fulop in Jersey City has really always had a gap when it comes to attracting Black voters.

That's for sure.

Not a good couple of weeks in Trenton.

A scathing report found that some of the police there were doing what rogue cops do.

Excessive force etc..

Someone who was supposed to be watching for water purity wasn't.

It's like the city didn't have enough problems?

>> right.

This goes back to what a lot of communities across the country and especially in New Jersey have said.

They feel neglected in terms of having a social safety net, clean water, a police force that respects them.

These two pieces of news laid bare a lot of these realities, especially the Trenton police report.

Some of the anecdotes that came out of that report were pretty gruesome.

In one case, one man wouldn't let policing without a warrant.

They ended up throwing him to the ground, putting pepper spray in his face.

His Dashiell to Millie died from that interaction -- he ultimately died from that interaction.

Boilerplate language so we are not sure what cooperating looks like.

David: you have to root for a town like Trenton.

Once our nations capital.

So rich in history and commerce.

Victimized for decades now by bad actors in government and the incompetence that accompanies them.

I mean, re-dish our is holding his own.

Turning the corner is proving to be really difficult, no?

>> it was a week of rough headlines for the capital city.

What really stood out to me in particular about the DOJ report was the lack of an accompanying dissent decree.

There's no plan for how to go forward.

It's essentially on the city's honor to reform the police department.

They mentioned a few changes that they've already made.

Some of these street patrol units that were at the center of these illegal or unconstitutional stops.

But as far as a court deciding like what happened in Newark, they will hold their feet to the fire and they are going to force changes and reform.

We haven't seen that yet.

We are looking at the end of the Biden administration.

Will they police police more closely?

I would be skeptical.

David: you see a lot coming out of their mouth but you don't see any teeth.

Let's switch here.

Mass deportations.

You hear lots of talk about it.

The idea of deportation camps.

Immigrants of all statuses are concerned obviously.

But so is the business community.

We just saw Senator Steinhardt say he wants a bill that would compel local police to proactively report undocumented individuals that they arrest to immigration.

So it's not like this isn't a big issue in Jersey, right?

>> yeah.

For sure.

That bill itself I don't find very surprising.

For years in New Jersey, you have seen Republicans really rally against what's referred to as the century where he state policy.

To take a step back, early in the Murphy administration, the Attorney General's office signed an order that basically limits to the extent possible cooperation between state and local law enforcement officials with federal immigration authorities.

A dynamic in all of this that is interesting especially with the Trump Administration is that that directive is not codified into law.

Does Governor Phil Murphy try to codify this into state law?

does he make a legislative push to make it permanent?

also, what do the gubernatorial candidates think?

do they want to extend this proposal?

we've seen all the candidates for governor on the Republican side say that they don't want any form of a sanctuary state policy in their administration.

Most Democrats running for governor expressing some support for this.

So I think even while people may think of immigration as an issue that's only up to the feds to determine, the state and local governments to have a role to play in that.

David: we believe it there.

That's roundtable for this week.

Good to see you all.

Thanks for coming on and happy holidays to all of you.

Thanks to Declan Scanlon for joining us.

You can follow the shell on next -- X.

Please feel free to share or subscribe.

For all the crew here at Gateway Center in downtown Newark, thanks for watching.

We will see you next week.

Announcer: Major funding for "Reporters Roundtable" is provided by RWJ Barnabas Health.

Let's be healthy together.

♪