- (female announcer) Production funding for Behind the Headlines is made possible in part by the WKNO Production Fund, the WKNO Endowment Fund, and by viewers like you, thank you.

- The opening of the redesigned Tom Lee Park, tonight, on Behind the Headlines.

[intense orchestral music] I'm Eric Barnes with The Daily Memphian.

Thanks for joining us.

I'm joined tonight by Carol Coletta, President and CEO of the Memphis River Parks Partnership.

Thanks for being here again.

- Thank you.

- Along with Bill Dries, reporter with The Daily Memphian.

So after years and years of work and decades and decades of discussion, the what, $61 million renovation of Tom Lee Park is set to open September 2nd.

You've been head of Memphis River Parks Partnership, we'll talk about everything we can, not just Tom Lee Park, but we'll talk about Music Fest, we'll talk about Barbecue Fest, Greenbelt Park, the connections, everything we can get to.

But in the years you've been there and the fundraising, the no small amount of controversy, the mediation, was it worth it?

- That's a great question, yes, absolutely.

In fact, I'm surprised when I think back over my career and find myself back in Memphis, operating something, right?

Which is hard to do, versus giving away money, and theory and policy and research and all the wonderful opportunities I've had over the years.

This, in so many ways, is the most gratifying.

I love it and I love the idea of our ability to realize what I think will be a legacy project for Memphis right at the front door and for me, that signals that we can and will do big things.

- We'll talk about, again, as I said, all kinds of things.

I mentioned the long mediation with Memphis in May, which caused some redesign to accommodate for Beale Street Music Festival and the Barbecue Festival.

You just went through the first, you all had kind of an early opening, which was part of the agreement, so it was open for Music Fest and Barbecue Fest.

Some of the areas were fenced off and the park wasn't ready for prime time, but it hosted both those events.

How did it go?

- Well... the reaction that we heard from people who attended the festivals was very, very positive.

I mean, people love the new seating, the shade, just the beauty of the park that they could see as part of the festival, so that went really well.

Music Festival, I think the park, even at only 80% completion, showed that it could host a music festival of the size of the one that Memphis in May stages.

I think Barbecue is another question.

I think while people who went to the festival seemed to really enjoy it, I think some of the teams felt like it was not the best place for Barbecue.

I don't run the festival and so everything we know is really secondhand and we'll wait to get the festival's verdict on what they do in the future.

- And I should say, we've in the past, invited folks from Memphis in May on the show.

We will again, and you know, Bill's reached out to them.

We sometimes get quotes from them in articles, they've not wanted to come on the show to talk about this.

So I just, full disclosure on that.

On the Barbecue Fest side, there's a lot of kind of noise around fewer teams were in there, they had to move some parts of it up to what, Beale Street?

I think I'm saying that right.

Was that because of decisions you all made or because of Memphis River Parks?

Or do you know why that happened?

Why fewer teams were in there and why some teams were up the street?

- No and again, what the guidelines we were given were during mediation, all spelled out for this is what we need, these are the specs to which the park needs to be designed to handle a music festival and a barbecue festival.

Those specs were met and then some.

So how the festival was laid out, what choices were made about which teams got in, which teams didn't, moving Patio Porkers to Beale Street, I don't really know why those decisions were made, we had nothing to do with them.

Again, all we did was, our team walked the park every day to assess damage, to make sure that, to the extent possible, that damage could be mitigated going forward so no further damage was done.

- I'll let Bill follow up on that.

[chuckles] - And at this point, that process is still ongoing, correct?

- What process?

- In terms of whether the damage deposit meets what has to be repaired, you're still assessing all of that in terms of what damage and what the cost of it was?

- Yeah, there's a review ongoing by City Hall, the city owns the park, we manage the park, we're the landlord, so the city wants to make sure that whatever we invoice in terms of damages is accurate and that's a good thing.

So the city is providing a layer of oversight on the invoice that we finally present.

And there were a couple of things that slowed down the invoice processing.

And I'll give you two.

One is it took us five attempts to find a method that would clean the walkways, you know?

So, that took a while, to go through five options.

And the other is when damage is done to the lawn, especially a brand new laid lawn where you've got lots of new soil underneath, all of which is very complex soil, keep in mind it was on a Corps of Engineers dike wall, soil was like concrete, that's why nothing would grow there.

So, can you repair the lawns and the damage that was done?

Or do you have to replace the lawns?

And you don't know that immediately, you've gotta watch how it grows.

And so I think making sure that you just find ways to assess that takes a little bit of time.

So I think City Hall admirably is providing, again, a layer of oversight that is appropriate.

We're fine with that and the bill will be sent soon.

- You have the Cobblestones and to one side you have Tom Lee Park.

On the other side you have Mississippi River Park, which is also called the River Garden.

And the River Garden in many cases was kind of a way of looking at how things might work in Tom Lee Park on a larger scale, because it's a smaller park.

What lessons did you learn from the River Garden?

- A number of lessons and you can see them repeated in Tom Lee Park.

For instance, I just was by River Garden on the way here.

And it's amazing to me in this terrible heat, how abundant the garden is, you know, which is great.

To see that that can grow in this heat, that makes me feel very hopeful about the natural landscaping that's been put in Tom Lee Park, many coming from seeds that were collected here and then germinated in greenhouses and brought back into the park.

So that's a really good encouraging sign.

I think the other thing was, two things.

One, if you know the climbing structure, it's really all ages and I think people have loved that climbing structure in River Garden that takes you up to the nest and it's challenging, you don't know immediately how to climb it, or what to do with it, but kids figure it out and so do adults and you'll see a lot of the climbing structure repeated differently through the big Monstrum designed animals in the playground.

So that's exciting.

The third thing is, and it's funny, one night after a day of especially trying, I left the house, it was late at night, I took my dog and we just started walking, you know?

It was like, "I gotta get out here."

And we went to River Garden and I got there and it was like 9:00, 10:00 at night, all these people are just swinging on the swings.

They were so calm, it was the calmest atmosphere, people, all demographics, and they're just enjoying life on the river at 9:00, 9:30, 10:00 at night and I thought, "This is so interesting."

So you'll see swings of the same type in Tom Lee.

And I think we fully appreciate as we go into managing the park, we're going to have a nighttime crowd and so there's been a lot of expense put into great lighting in the park, sensitive lighting, you know, that allows light space, dark space and we've got a great security system there as well.

So, it taught us a lot.

- And the lighting, as we record this show, you've done your first test of lighting just this week to make sure that you get it right.

And it's kind of a sensitive balance because you want people to be able, who are in the park at night, to have lighting to be safe and to feel safe, but you also want them to be able to see the river at night too, right?

- Right and you want them too, to feel not over lit.

You don't want it like the Walmart parking lot.

So the question is, how do you get that brightness that you need?

And like you said, the subtlety, the dim light that you need to see the river and the night sky, by the way, but also feel safe, but not feel exposed.

And we've got just the best lighting designer and they've been down there setting the lights.

So the lights are all installed now, but they're setting the lights and that's been fun to watch.

- People have been watching because you have been able to see the park take shape from the bluff walk atop, another controversial project.

- Oh my gosh.

- That was really controversial at the time.

- That was 20 years ago?

- Yeah.

- The Bluff Walk above.

Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Now we kind of take it for granted, but at any rate, people see the construction equipment, but they still try to explore the park.

So you kind need them to hold off for another couple weeks.

- Yes, I emphasized September 2nd.

- Yes.

- September 2nd, not before.

If you're in there, you really need to be escorted with a hard hat and a vest still, because there's a lot.

And now the equipment, these are very serious people.

We have a deadline September 2nd.

So, there are people all day and all night working in that park.

- Let me, we're gonna show some photos in a second and let you walk through what we've got.

But two quick things on the damage assessment.

Was there a choice to maybe not put the grass in before Barbecue Fest and Beale Street Music Fest?

Or was that just the grass had to be there knowing it was gonna get torn up?

- Well, I mean, what you want is you want enough time for the landscape to set.

And we knew and explained a year in advance, a full year in advance, this will be the condition of the park in May of '23.

So all of that was- - Okay, but going forward, ostensibly the damage would be less because the grass will have that much more time to have gotten to grow in and so on.

- The Cutbank Bluff, which is the ADA access from the top of the bluff to the bottom of the banks, has been growing for two years.

The difference between year one and year two night and day.

- Okay.

So to that end, do you think, I know you can't predict the future, but the whatever the damage assessment and the amount of damage this year is typical and that cost will be typical of future years?

Or do you know yet?

- You know, I can't say.

And I think any landlord would be reluctant to say what someone else's damage is going to be or what they would charge.

I mean, I've thought about, you know, there's no organization in Memphis more beloved than St. Jude, right?

I mean, everybody loves St. Jude.

But if St. Jude went down and did damage to the Peabody Hotel or FedExForum, a public facility, I mean, they would have to pay for the damage.

So I think, just like anyone would.

So it's just a matter of making sure that you understand what's there, you respect what's there, you plan for it, and you do the best job you can to work around any concerns.

- Okay, with 10 minutes left here, we've got photos that your staff sent to us.

We didn't show 'em to you beforehand, so it's gonna be kind of like a quiz.

But just walk people through what we're seeing.

- Hope that I know.

- Yeah, I have a feeling you know what we're seeing here in some of the photos.

- My step counter can attest to that.

This is a drone shot, this is the Cutbank Bluff, which is, you can see the lighting there, how beautiful it is, that's the second year of growth, which it's just growing in gorgeously.

This is the Monstrum designed playground, it's quite large.

And there's an overview of it.

- Can see the giant river otter there.

- Yeah, the river otter and all of the creatures there are river critters.

You saw the adult fitness, this is the spectacular centerpiece of the park.

The sunset canopy that's already winning design awards.

We're excited about that.

And underneath there's this phenomenal, it's a full basketball court size, both ends are half court basketball.

So we can do anything under there, but the whole thing will be covered by a phenomenal mural, by James Little, who's a native Memphian.

- Yeah and that pavilion, and we might, if people can't, we might let those photos roll again as we just continue to talk about some of that so people can see it again.

The pavilion we'll be used for weddings, parties, it's a rental space, right?

- It's a rental space, but it's mostly a public space.

In fact, Eric, we've looked at every feature of the park that we think is rentable and we've said we don't wanna rent it more than X% of time.

- Oh, right.

- Because, you know, we wanna make sure that 80-90% of the time it is public, it is free and that we use that little bit of capacity to generate revenue for the park.

- I was gonna say, just a personal note, and I think I've told you before, that like one of my favorite parks in the world is Bryant Park in New York City, it's right behind the New York Public Library.

- Oh yeah, love it.

- And 50% of the time it's rented.

There's something going on in there.

So you're in New York on a trip, you kind of want to go by and get a cup of coffee and just sort of experience this really cool little park and you can't get in there.

So that's what you're trying to avoid?

- Yeah, I had that issue.

I went to New Orleans to see a new park by David Adjaye and it was closed, it was rented.

I was like, "Well, let's just keep going to Montgomery and see something else."

- So the other things that'll be in there, there's gonna be one or two restaurants or food service kind of- - We'll have, yes.

We have two food pavilions, real food.

I mean, you can eat a meal, we think about this as park life, the ability of people to really enjoy a meal, a drink, a beer and enjoy what's offered in the park.

Two food pavilions, plus a grill.

- And the [chuffs] Mud Island, big question, what's next for Mud Island?

And you got some criticism from people, or just outright questions from people.

Sixty-one million dollars to redo Tom Lee Park, there's $10 million that's going into the Cobblestones and not a whole lot going into Mud Island, which is just the amphitheater, the skyway, the museum part is pretty dated, hasn't had a lot of updating in many, many years.

What's next for Mud Island?

- Well, keep in mind, Mud Island opened in 1982, it was designed in the '70s.

So it has... escalators, elevators, heating, cooling, a museum that, as you say, is very dated and attendance was very thin when we finally closed it off for considering what to do next.

You've got an amphitheater where the seats are made for people in 1982.

And where the foundation is grossly uneven.

So there are so many, and the Riverwalk, which is really the great feature.

- Which is the outline - Outline of the Mississippi.

- Of the Mississippi, yeah.

- Was leaking badly, all right?

So $350,000 a year water bill.

So, it is a very expensive place to run and it's doubly expensive when you consider the deferred maintenance.

The good news is that Council and the administration of course, provided in the Accelerate Memphis bond issue four million dollars for redoing some of the deferred maintenance at Mud Island and then Council allocated another five, but then took most of that back and reallocated it in this budget cycle.

But the point is, we're trying to get it back to a vanilla box, if you will, so that it's solid, it's structurally right, the elevators and escalators work, the restrooms are in good shape, so that whatever use may come the box will be ready.

But the box will not be ready with $4 million of investment.

It just won't and there is no way, we believe, to raise philanthropic dollars to redo Mud Island.

So I think the options are exciting, the opportunity is exciting, but it's a bit of a needle to thread to get to what the new use is.

So in the meantime, what we can do is we've made it more bikeable, more walkable with some very subtle moves on the south end.

So you can actually do a loop there.

We opened it up free a few years ago.

You used to have to pay, people forget this, you used to have to pay to get on Mud Island because it was sort of run like a theme park and now it's free and lots of people love to walk and bike it and it's phenomenal.

You know, you're out in the middle of the Mississippi River.

But as for the buildings and what the attractions beyond the nature part of it, the walking and biking and the Memphis sign, which we put out there a few years ago, and it's been enormously popular.

It remains to be seen what the highest and best use is.

I believe whatever that is, Eric, it should not be anything that you can actually put on the downtown side, right?

Because access has always been a challenge and it's away, unless you lean into the awayness of Mud Island and that becomes a strength rather than a weakness, then I think you're always going to be fighting its awayness.

You can't fight it, you've gotta lean into it and say, "Oh, the awayness makes this particular use possible."

- Five minutes here, Bill.

- So, tell me about Beale Street Landing.

Where does Beale Street Landing fit into Tom Lee Park?

- Well, we've cleaned out Beale Landing and it actually looks great inside.

Those restrooms are going to come in very handy.

As you know, Mayor Strickland was able to get the state to provide money for dock expansion.

We're very busy with excursion boats.

- And that's in Greenbelt.

Well, you're also doing another platform at Beale Street Landing, and- - We're expanding that dock.

- Okay.

- And then improving Greenbelt which is an alternate dock when river's low.

So that's all happening, we will take the north side of Beale Street Landing and turn it into something we're calling Confluence which will be an education and environmental center and a welcome into the park, but we'll have school groups.

It's a great place for school groups to begin and end.

We're amping up all of our education efforts and so that will be a very important part of those education efforts.

We've got the Buckman outdoor classroom on the south end of the park.

And then we have this Confluence center where bus access and so forth on the north end.

AIA as you know, has the south part of Beale Street Landing rented through the end of this year.

They love the space.

They've done some beautiful things with the space.

And we've animated the north porch, I guess, is a way to put it, under roof and then around by the excursion boats, the dock.

So it's going to be a very important first phase.

And if you remember, you used to walk by Beale Landing and run right into the dumpster.

And because it was really cut off from the park.

Now it joins up and at the top of Beale Street Landing, there's always been kind of a small platform.

We're expanding that to recognize Terry Lynch at Visionary Point and it'll be a much expanded platform drink rail, great view of all that's gone on in Tom Lee Park and the river and the city back to the east.

- Just a couple last things.

How many overnight riverboats now, 70 something a year?

- No, you keep under estimating.

- I keep getting this wrong.

I keep getting this wrong.

- We're in the 90s.

- In the 90s, I can't get it right, that is actually- - Last time you said 30, so this was an improvement.

- Yeah, so I'm just catching up, but one after the other.

So 90 overnight, these are the people coming, staying downtown, potentially all the tourists coming through there.

- Oh yeah.

- Also a source of which I didn't fully understand 'til last time you were on the show and you talked about that being a source of revenue.

Which was one of the criticisms, concerns, questions about this $61 million renovated park.

How do you maintain it?

There's a lot in there.

Is that partly the riverboat fees that kind of go feeding into that or?

- They do, they do.

But again, I make this point a lot and I think it's important, we have no air conditioning, we have no heating, we have no escalators, elevators, we have no monorail to maintain.

And so I'm not minimizing the cost, we want to keep it beautiful.

But when you have natural landscaping, you have great irrigation system, you have no heating, cooling and escalators, elevators, it becomes a lot less expensive to maintain over time than say something like as complex as Mud Island.

- Well, last thing on Mud Island, what you seem to imply, but I don't think you said is, that really you need a private developer is what you seem to say without saying it.

- I think- - To take that place to where people want it to be.

- I think there are two options, one is private investment.

I think there's potential also for an institutional user.

And I think we need to explore both as we go forward.

But it's a critical piece of property, we can all, you know, if you're downtown you see it from your window.

And so we wanna make Mud Island the asset that it should be for Memphis.

- All right, that is all the time we have this week.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you, Bill.

I will say that next week we get back to our series of profiles of mayoral candidates with Van Turner joining us.

We have already interviewed Frank Colvett, Michelle McKissack, JW Gibson, and Karen Camper.

After Van Turner, in the weeks after that, we'll have Paul Young on, Floyd Bonner, as well as former Mayor Willie Herenton.

All that leading up to a debate here on WKNO on August 15th at 7 PM, co-moderated by me and Kontji Anthony.

So please do tune into that.

Again, that's August 15th at 7 PM on WKNO.

It'll be live streamed, it'll be on The Daily Memphian site, all of that.

And the election is on October 5th.

Early voting begins September 15th.

So all that leading into those very important dates.

Again, thanks to Carol, thank you to Bill.

Thank you for joining us.

If you missed any of the show tonight, please go to wkno.org or search "Behind The Headlines" on YouTube, thanks so much.

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