- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of Think Tank with Steve Adubato has been provided by Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Working for a more a healthier, more equitable New Jersey.

Johnson & Johnson.

The Turrell Fund, a foundation serving children.

Valley Bank.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

The New Jersey Education Association.

NJM Insurance Group.

Serving New Jersey’s drivers, homeowners and business owners for more than 100 years.

And by The Adler Aphasia Center.

Promotional support provided by ROI-NJ.

Informing and connecting businesses in New Jersey.

And by The New Jersey Business & Industry Association.

[MOTIVATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi everyone, Steve Adubato.

It's very rare that we do this, but it is not only appropriate, but you'll understand in just a moment why we're doing what we're about to do.

I'm gonna introduce our good friend, my good friend, our good friend, our longtime colleague, Patricia Costante, who's the founding member of the EJI Excellence in Medicine Fund.

She's also a board member at the New Jersey Health Foundation.

Patricia, we are about to see a panel discussion that we taped in June of 2025 with our good friend Dr.

George Heinrich, who was the head of the healthcare foundation.

He was part of our series that you and he worked on and others.

We've been doing called Tomorrow's Physicians.

It's a panel discussion that George was on with two of his colleagues.

Two weeks later, George tragically passed.

We've spoken since then.

You've spoken to the family.

Tell folks why we are in fact airing this program with George.

In many ways, as a tribute to Dr.

Heinrich.

Please.

- So, Steve, I think first I have to comment on the fact that almost three months later, it's so hard for me to imagine that George is not with us.

And I think that this particular program is just the quintessential way to honor him because it is with two young people who received scholarships and guidance through George and everything he had to offer.

And one of the things I've come to appreciate in the years that I've known him are the number of lives, and especially lives of young students that he's touched, starting in high school and coaching them through college, through medical school, through early residency, and building a network of loyal supporters.

Wherever I go, I hear people want to make a tribute to George and all he meant to them.

- Yeah, George Heinrich.

For those, it's hard to get to understand it, much about George from this conversation you're about to see, and we're gonna do a special on our series, "Remember Them," with my colleague Jacqui Tricarico.

We're gonna honor, George.

Talk to Patricia and others about Dr.

Heinrich.

But his whole life was about mentoring those who are about to go into the field of medicine, promoting medicine, promoting the future of medicine through tomorrow's physicians and scholarships.

And that's what the EJI Excellence in Medicine Fund is all about.

Hey listen.

- George Heinrich, our friend, two of the younger people in medicine that he had a great impact on.

You'll understand as you watch this program why Dr.

Heinrich was such a special person and why his legacy lives on.

- Hi, everyone, Steve Adubato.

We continue our compelling and important series on tomorrow's physicians with three physician leaders who understand what it takes to be a great physician leader, why they went into the world of medicine, we'll talk about as well, and let me introduce them now.

We're first gonna be joined by Dr.

Leila Mady, head and neck oncology and microvascular surgeon at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Dr.

Ronak Mistry, hematologist, and assistant professor of clinical medicine at Perelman School of Medicine at University of Pennsylvania, and finally, Dr.

George Heinrich, who is associate dean for admissions and adjunct professor of medicine at Rutgers New Jersey Medical School.

I wanna thank all of you for joining us.

Thank you so much.

- Thank you.

- Glad to be here.

- Hey, George, let me start with you, because the truth is, this series is a byproduct of a series that we've been having with you, and our good friend, Patricia Costante, and others around this idea of tomorrow's physicians with the EJI awards.

We'll put the website up so people can find out more.

George, let me ask you this, the why.

Seriously, you all came into medicine for different reasons.

Let's deal with the why.

Why medicine for you, why medicine, even today?

- Medicine is a wonderful way to really make a difference in the world.

My personal philosophy is we're on this earth to make a difference in other people's lives, and through medicine, through the education, through the delivery of care, through the sensitivity to the patient.

I teach students, we don't really treat disease, we take care of people who may have disease, and we can't lose sight that everybody's an individual, everybody's important, and that's what gets me up every day.

- George, I'm gonna follow up on that before we go to your colleagues.

At the EJI Awards for Excellence in Medicine, scholarships are given out every year, they're won every year by a group of medical students who are going into the field.

Their why is all different, but what is it that you think binds them together across the board, regardless of their individual reasons for going into the field of medicine?

What do you think that is?

- Well, if I go by how we select the recipients, I think that tells the story.

It's about excellence on many different counts.

It's not only the academic level of achievement, it's the sensitivity or the, so when we make the selection, we look at not only who they are, but what they've done, not about what they're saying, but what they've actually done, and look at how they've helped others, how they've gone beyond their comfort level, in many cases, to take on a lot, and recognize medicine is not easy, medical school is not easy, and they wanna do this because, again, I think they all wanna make a difference, and that's the type of student we select.

- Along those lines, Dr.

Mady, let me ask you, same question I asked Dr.

Heinrich, why, for you, medicine?

Why medicine?

- You know, Dr.

Heinrich says it perfectly, right?

It's to help people.

I mean, our health is really our common denominator.

I think that is what is so humbling about being in healthcare.

It reminds you of how fragile we are, and your ability to impact anyone who walks in the door, and I think that's what's really unique about being in healthcare.

- Let me ask you this.

When you made the decision, and Dr.

Mistry, I'll come to you in a second, when you made the decision, Dr.

Mady, to go into medicine, it was challenging then, and it's even more challenging now.

Is there any part of you that says if I could do it again, I would or wouldn't do it?

- I mean, yeah, Dr.

Heinrich said it again, and you know, it's hard, medicine is hard, and it's - It's getting harder.

I'm sorry for interrupting.

- getting harder.

- It's getting harder.

- Yeah, that's exactly right, and so it's really hard to look back or look forward, right?

You don't have a crystal ball, you can't look back, but I think, at the end of the day, when you have somebody, you know, give you a really big hug and say, "Thank you for saving my life," it's hard to say I would have traded that for a trading floor, you know, or a desk job, because I did study finance as an undergrad, so, you know, it was a potentially very different road, but it's a really powerful thing when somebody thanks you for saving their life.

- Dr.

Mistry, your area of expertise, osteopathic medicine?

- I did go to an osteopathic medical school, indeed, and now I practice primarily hematology, though, so although I don't use my osteopathic principles, my manipulation, every single day, it certainly, I think the philosophy of where I went to school certainly is a big part of the care that I deliver to my patients.

- What drove you into medicine?

- Similar to what was already said, it was, you know, a combination of a lot of really cool science that was able to then move from the lab to be able to help people, both for diagnostic and therapeutic purposes, and I think the reason I ultimately decided to come into medicine, was, one of the first doctors I ever shadowed was an oncologist, and seeing that really unique relationship that doctors, especially oncologists and hematologists, develop with their patients, often over many, many years, given the advances in our treatments today, I think that's something that was really unique and really special, and that is what sort of clinched me initially, and I haven't looked back ever since.

- I wanna talk about mentorship.

From your perspective, to what degree is it the responsibility of physician leaders like yourself and others, like all three of you right now, to intentionally, strategically and consistently mentor others?

Because that's what you do every day.

- It's core, and it's the future, and we're doing what we're doing, but if we don't help provide significant input to the future physicians, medicine is changing on its own.

We need to remember, as I said earlier, we take care of people, and at New Jersey Medical School, as you know, Healthcare Foundation in New Jersey, years ago, and down the Center for Humanism in Medicine, we try to teach our students we take care of people.

This is a common theme.

You heard from Dr.

Mistry and you heard from Dr.

Mady, if we wanna be physicians, we need to be role models, we need to show, and there are lots of people who went into medicine and need the guidance to be successful in the mentorship, so we have a responsibility, it's not optional.

We should be- - It's not, it's required.

But, you know, it's interesting.

I'm gonna stay on the issue of mentorship, but there's another piece of it that I wanna get into that Dr.

Heinrich just mentioned, humanism in medicine, right?

The term, I don't know what people think that means, but I actually, ironically, last night, I was hosting an event with Sandra Gold, who is the widow of the late Dr.

Arnold Gold, who for, he was the person who introduced me to the concept of humanism in medicine.

Dr.

Heinrich, and then I'll get both of you to jump in, define humanism in medicine, George.

- I can define it better when it's not there, (Steve laughs) - You know it - because- - when it's not there.

Is that similar to what Potter Stewart said in the Supreme Court, defining, I'm not even gonna go there.

Go ahead, pick it up.

- You probably don't need that, but- - No, I don't need that (laughs).

- But I think all of us, either from a physician exposure we had or a family member had, will talk about a physician who was less than caring, didn't listen, didn't pay attention.

It's unconscionable.

Our responsibility as healthcare providers is to be there for our patients, and that's what this whole humanism is, that we don't forget we take care of people, and it's tough.

In today's healthcare delivery world, many providers are told how many patients to see, what drugs to give, what drugs not to give.

We need to understand, some people need more time, and we need to provide that.

- Dr.

Mady, in listening to your colleague talk about humanism in medicine, knowing when you see it, and you know it, definitely, when you don't, for you, to what degree, in helping tomorrow's physicians get ready to become the best physicians they can be, to what degree do you believe this degree of empathy, humanism, is innate, versus trainable?

Any thoughts?

- That's a great question.

You know, I think, - I think about it all the time, I think- By the way, as a student of leadership, I keep thinking leadership, natural, oh, she's a natural born leader.

Well, I mean, everyone else who's not can't learn it?

Talk to us.

- I think there's an element that is fundamentally innate, which drives people to go into medicine to begin with, right?

There's a lot - You gotta have- - of other choices you could make, right?

So there's fundamentally, that I think at baseline that's common, hopefully, a little bit of innateness.

There is an element that's teachable, I hope, and goes back to the idea of mentorship, right, and so much of what I'm sure Dr.

Mistry does, and, you know, what I do, and what we do, are the intangibles, right, the non-billables, the stuff that isn't captured with- - Hold on, did you just say non-billables?

- That's correct, Non-billable.

- Go ahead, pick up your point, it's right.

- Right?

Right, all the little in-between, that takes a Herculean effort to get patients through the door and through their care, and a lot of times, that is not so obvious to trainees, and I think highlighting the amount of humanism and effort it takes to truly take care of patients is the part that's teachable, and that's the part that's really hard.

- Yeah, Dr.

Mistry, jump in on this conversation about humanism.

And by the way, I'm gonna follow up on this, connecting humanism, the human side of medicine, to the experience of the pandemic, and who wants to, and who chooses to go into medicine or not, post-pandemic.

Please pick it up, Dr.

Mistry.

- Yeah, I agree with Dr.

Mady.

Like, a big part of what we do is providing that humanistic care, that is, listening to our patients, listening to their family members, showing them compassion for what they're going through, and I often remind patients in difficult situations, you know, we see them for maybe 15 minutes or 30 minutes every few weeks or every few months, but they're living with what it is that we're talking to them about every single day, and so trying to find common ground that, you know, try to understand their experience, try to describe to them what's going through our minds so that they can be their best advocates is, I think, a big part of what we do, and to what my colleagues have said, I think this is a big part of what we're trying to teach our students and our trainees.

I think everybody has the best of intentions coming into medicine, wanting to provide humanistic care.

Sometimes I think the role that we play is reminding our trainees when they're doing it really well or when there's areas for, opportunities, rather, for improvement, and I think that is that teachable component, or, you know, again, with the best of intentions, they may say something that they weren't intending to say, and providing that feedback to get them to maybe just adjust their language a little bit, I think is a big part of what we do, as well.

- I do a significant amount of leadership development with physician leaders, and one of the themes we talk about, I do it with different professions, but some people have argued, I hate that some people would say, but some people have said disproportionately physicians have a harder time receiving, this is to your point Dr.

Mistry.

Dr.

Heinrich, this question is to you based on what Dr.

Mistry just said.

Receiving feedback as a student of leadership, as a coach in the field of leadership, giving constructive, honest, hard to hear feedback is critical.

There are some who believe that physicians disproportionately have a tougher time receiving constructive, honest feedback, particularly from peers than others.

You buy that, Dr.

Heinrich?

- I think everybody suffers from feedback.

- True, true.

- I think it's so important.

I tell applicants, I tell 'em when I start with them and advise them, you're not gonna like everything I hear, but it's all gonna be in your best interest.

And I sort of make that a preamble so that when they hear something they don't like, they realize that that may help them.

So I think part of it is a delivery as well as the setting, what the expectation is.

So I do think everybody will respond a little bit different, but I think we all want to hear good things and we need to be ready to understand that no matter how well we do something, we can always do it better.

- Yeah, we all struggle with it.

And by the way, if you just joined us, the graphic will come up.

Tomorrow's Physicians, a series that we started.

It's important stuff because who will be the physicians of tomorrow?

Why will they be the physicians tomorrow?

How the heck will they pay for medical school?

All the things we've been looking at.

Real quick on this... I say two words: physician, COVID.

Impact, Dr.

Mady, of those who choose to go into or don't go into the world of being a physician based on COVID.

Do you think COVID has had a significant impact?

And if so, how?

- Absolutely.

I mean, without doubt, right?

COVID has changed not just healthcare, but every industry, right?

- Including this.

- Yeah.

And you know, I think a big part now is examining, you know, what choices do you have?

What can you select as a profession and what may give you a different sort of flexibility.

Way of life that didn't exist in America before COVID, right?

And healthcare at the end of the day, is still a job and a vocation and a calling, if you will, that you need to show up to work every day.

And that is very different than a lot of the gig economy, right?

A lot of other industries that have developed after the pandemic.

So it has absolutely changed what we do and who's going into what we do.

- A follow up to that, Dr.

Mistry, I'm curious about this.

When we talk about physician wellbeing, physician care, self-care, to what degree do you believe COVID has impacted the awareness and the significance of physicians taking care of their own wellbeing?

Please.

- I think it's been honestly a positive impact.

I think people, for instance, myself, I was still in residency when the pandemic first began.

- You were?

- Yeah, I was.

So it completely changed my entire residency experience and my chief residency experience and my transition into fellowship was impacted by this greatly.

And you know, I raise this because I think that what I learned and what my colleagues learned from this experience is there's a lot of uncertainties with life, right?

Really, really healthy people were getting sick and unfortunately many of them lost their lives to this disease.

And I think it led all of us to realize that life truly is precious.

And I think that we do have an obligation to ourself to look after ourselves.

And you know, our dean in medical school used to say that you can't look after other people if you don't care for yourself first.

And that was a message that was shared well before the pandemic had begun.

But I think that that reminder has stuck with me through that time.

And I think it became ever more important during the pandemic.

I think the pandemic highlighted not only physical wellness, but also mental wellness, right?

Finding opportunities to take a step back from how hectic, how stressful our jobs were to make sure that we were in the right head space to continue showing up to work every day and looking out for our patients and our colleagues.

- Before I come back to Dr.

Heinrich, you have a podcast, Dr.

Mistry?

- I do.

- What's it called?

- It's "The Fellow On Call."

We're an educational Hem/Onc podcast.

- An educational what?

- An educational hematology oncology podcast.

- Did you just use medical jargon on me right now?

I have a PhD, not an MD I just wanna clarify that.

George, go back to the wellness thing.

George, you've talked about this before it became trendy for some folks to talk about wellness.

Wellbeing.

It's a priority for you, isn't it?

- Yes, I tell students, use the airplane model, put the oxygen mask on yourself, otherwise you can't help anybody else.

And wellness is, we have a greater awareness, I think, because of COVID on wellness.

And maybe the opposite of lack of wellness.

And sometimes high achievers will walk through the wall and not realize they walked through the wall.

Maybe they could have used a door.

And having that kind of perspective is really important.

And taking this self-care has become much more prevalent in at least this open discussion, which is good.

Maybe we don't always practice what we preach, but if we talk about it, someone's gonna benefit.

And I think that's always important.

I see it in medical school, I see it in colleagues, in practice.

And there are a lot of opportunities for improvement still.

Dr.

Mady you're shaking your head.

How come?

- You know, I think we've made progress, but there's still a long way to go.

You know, there's still a lot of accounting that happens when a physician closes a schedule and oh, you need to open up another one to make up for that and there's still a lot of pressure.

- To outsiders, explain what you just said.

- Meaning, you know, I think there's still a lot of expectations that when physicians do close down a clinic, for example, or take time to do something else, that is a expectation to make it up.

Even, a one for one.

And so while I think we've made a long way in conversations about wellness and maybe some of the more tangible changes are being made at the trainee level, and of course we've seen that a lot of change there.

I think there's still a lot of work to be done once you're in practice, because not a lot of those same mechanisms to promote wellness at the trainee new level really exist yet once you're faculty.

- Let's do this, I have a couple minutes left.

I'm gonna remind folks, as the graphic comes up, Tomorrow's Physicians, it is our ongoing series looking at the physicians of tomorrow and the challenges that the physicians of tomorrow face, who they are, why they go into the profession, and why they matter so much.

In that spirit, and go on our website to look at some previous additions.

But Dr.

Mistry, I wanna follow up this last question.

Most significant piece of advice you would give for someone into medical school, residency, about to become a full fledged physician is, most significant, valuable piece of advice.

Go, you're on.

- This is tough.

- There's a hundred things you could tell 'em.

- Yes, exactly.

- What's the most important.

- I just went through this 'cause I haven't even been a faculty member for a full year yet.

But I would say, I would say probably the most important thing is trying to establish boundaries.

And what I mean by that, especially in academia, which all three of us are in, there are so many obligations, both clinical and obligations that will come from other avenues.

And understanding what you are capable of taking on what may be too overwhelming, even if everything sounds like an exciting opportunity, knowing what your capable capabilities are and setting boundaries and priorities I think is important so that we don't sort of to go back to the mental health issue, we don't overwork ourselves to the point that we're not able to provide the best care and not be able to be our best selves for everything else we're involved with.

- Dr.

Heinrich, go.

One piece of advice, future physicians.

- I still go back to remember, we take care of people and we can't lose sight of that.

- Dr.

Mady.

- I'd say stay true to yourself.

Remember what your true north is in all this.

- It's good advice for all of us, but particularly those going into the field of medicine.

I cannot thank all of you enough for joining us.

And Dr.

Heinrich, thank you for guiding us through this process and helping us understand why it's an important topic, not just for those in the world of medicine, but for the rest of us impacted by the world of medicine, the physicians of tomorrow.

I'm Steve Adubato, thank you so much for watching.

We'll see you next time.

- Sentimantal music - [Narrator] Think Tank with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Johnson & Johnson.

The Turrell Fund, a foundation serving children.

Valley Bank.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

The New Jersey Education Association.

NJM Insurance Group.

And by The Adler Aphasia Center.

Promotional support provided by ROI-NJ.

And by The New Jersey Business & Industry Association.

- NJM Insurance Group has been serving New Jersey businesses for over a century.

As part of the Garden State, we help companies keep their vehicles on the road, employees on the job and projects on track, working to protect employees from illness and injury, to keep goods and services moving across the state.

We're proud to be part of New Jersey.

NJM, we've got New Jersey covered.