>>> NOW, AS WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S TARIFFS ARE PROMPTING RADICAL CHANGES FOR AMERICAN BUSINESS OWNERS, LIKE DEBBIE RAY MULLIN, THE FOUNDER OF A COFFEE COMPANY -- VIETNAM AND -- WHO OWNS A CLOTHING BRAND WHICH RELIES ON OVERSEAS FACTORIES.

THEY SPEAK NOW TO MICHELLE MARTIN ABOUT WHAT THIS HAS DONE TO THEM.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE.

THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> SO, THE REASON WE CALLED YOU BOTH IS THAT YOU HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY THESE PROMISED/THREATENED TARIFFS.

BOTH OF YOU ARE ENTREPRENEURS.

BOTH OF YOUR BUSINESSES ARE ESTABLISHED.

SO, BEFORE WE GET INTO THAT, WHY DON'T WE START BY TELLING US WHY YOU'RE IN THE BUSINESS THAT YOU'RE IN.

DEBBIE, WHY DON'T YOU START?

>> IT STARTED IT AS THE FIRST PREMIUM VIETNAMESE COFFEE COMPANY.

MY MOM IS FROM VIETNAM, AND I'M REALLY PASSIONATE ABOUT ALL THINGS VIETNAMESE CUISINE AND THINK THAT VIETNAMESE COFFEE, THE SECOND LARGEST COFFEE PRODUCER IN THE WORLD, WAS REALLY NOT SEEN IN THE U.S. MARKET AND WANTED TO ELEVATE VIETNAMESE COFFEE.

>> YOU HAD A MISSION.

IT WAS ABOUT THE COFFEE BUT IT WAS ALSO ABOUT WHAT YOU COULD DO THROUGH THE COFFEE COMPANY.

>> EXACTLY.

I WORKED AT THE WORLD BANK, FOCUSED ON INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND HOW TO BRING BETTER ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES TO VIETNAM.

>> SARAH, WHAT ABOUT YOU?

YOU ALSO HAVE A STORY YOU SHARED ON YOUR WEBSITE ABOUT WHY YOU STARTED YOUR BUSINESS.

>> YES.

I STARTED BY BUSINESS BACK IN 2013.

I MYSELF ACTUALLY DON'T COME FROM THE FASHION WORLD, BUT I WAS A MANAGEMENT CONSULTANT.

I FOUND IT VERY HARD TO FIND GOOD, PRACTICAL, BUT FASHIONABLE CLOTHING FOR PROFESSIONAL WOMEN.

WOMEN ON AVERAGE SPEND TWO MORE WEEKS PER YEAR GETTING READY FOR WORK VERSUS MEN, AND I REALLY WANTED TO TACKLE THAT CHALLENGE.

I WAS PARTNERED WITH MY COFOUNDER, NAKAMURA, WHO CAME FROM A HIGH-END FASHION BACKGROUND, AND OUR GOAL HAS BEEN TO PROVIDE LUXURIOUS FABRICS AND CLOTHING TO HARD-WORKING PROFESSIONAL WOMEN.

>> SO, DEBBIE, COFFEE ISN'T REALLY GROWN IN THE UNITED STATES, IS IT?

IN HAWAII, RIGHT?

>> A FRACTION OF WHAT U.S. CONSUMES IN TERMS OF COFFEE CONSUMPTION.

>> BUT YOU COULDN'T HAVE THE KIND OF COFFEE COMPANY YOU HAVE WITHOUT SOURCING IT FROM VIETNAM, RIGHT?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

>> OKAY.

SO, HOW DID YOU -- WHEN YOU FIRST HEARD VIETNAM WAS ON THE SCHEDULE FOR TARIFFS, AND IN FACT VIETNAM WAS ONE OF THE COUNTRIES THAT WAS ORIGINALLY SUPPOSED TO BE HIT WITH ONE OF THE HIGHEST TARIFFS AT 46%, DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND?

>> JUST COMPLETE SHOCK TO BE HONEST.

AS I'M SURE YOU'RE AWARE, WE'VE BEEN SUFFERING THROUGH A COFFEE CRISIS FOR THE PAST YEAR AND A HALF.

AND WITH DOUBLE COFFEE PRICES, ALREADY HAVING TO ADJUST THE BUSINESS TO THAT HAS BEEN A COMPLETE WHIRLWIND.

SO, I THINK WE WERE PARTICULARLY SURPRISED NOT ONLY BECAUSE IT'S COFFEE, WHICH THE U.S.

PRIMARILY DOESN'T GROW, BUT ALSO VIETNAM REALLY DOES ADMIRE TRUMP AND HAS BEEN REALLY WILLING TO CONCEDE TO WHATEVER DEMANDS THAT HE WANTS.

THEY ARE REALLY COOPERATIVE WITH HIM.

SO, I THINK THAT WE WENT INTO THE TARIFF, THE IDEA OF TARIFFS BEING RELATIVELY A LOWER POSSIBILITY FOR VIETNAM AND FOR COFFEE.

AND SO I THINK WE WERE REALLY SHOCKED TO BE ON THE HIGHER END OF WHAT THEY WERE.

>> WHAT WOULD THIS DO -- IF 46% TARIFFS WERE TO HOLD, WHAT WOULD THAT -- HOW WOULD YOU ABSORB THAT?

I MEAN, WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

>> HONESTLY, THE DIRECT TO CONSUMER BUSINESS SIDE IS A LITTLE BIT EASIER.

PEOPLE ARE COMING THROUGH A WEBSITE.

YOU CAN INSTANTLY CHANGE YOUR PRICES TO ACCOMMODATE THESE CHANGES.

THE HARDEST PART IS THAT HALF OF OUR BUSINESS TODAY IS ACTUALLY IN RETAILERS, WHERE IT TAKES A MINIMUM OF SIX MONTHS FOR US TO DO A PRICE CHANGE, AND ALSO WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT'S GOING TO DO WITH OUR POSITION WITH THESE CLIENTS.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S REALLY HARD, VIETNAM, THE KIND OF COFFEE WE GROW IS MUCH EASIER TO GROW.

IT'S MUCH EASIER TO GROW ORGANICALLY.

THERE'S A LOT OF ADVANTAGES OF WHAT WE'RE DOING FOR THE COFFEE SPACE TO MAKE IT MORE SUSTAINABLE AND AFFORDABLE FOR ORGANIC COFFEE.

AND IT'S REALLY INCREDIBLE HOW MUCH WORK IS BEING COMPLETELY BASICALLY LEVELLED FROM THESE TARIFFS IN TERMS OF OUR ABILITY TO MAKE AFFORDABLE, ORGANIC, GREAT-TASTING COFFEE, NO LONGER APPLIES WITH THESE TARIFFS IF THEY WERE TO COME THROUGH.

>> I WANT TO COME BACK MORE TO YOUR MISSION WITH THIS.

YOU SAY ON YOUR WEBSITE YOU PAY THESE FARMERS TWICE WHAT THE MARKET RATE IS.

AND WHY IS THAT?

>> YEAH.

IT'S ALSO JUST BECAUSE THE KIND OF COFFEE THAT VIETNAM GROWS IS ROBUSTA COFFEE, WHICH HAS NOT BEEN TREATED AS WELL IN ITS PROCESSING AND CULTIVATION.

WE'VE PROVEN IF YOU PUT MORE CARE INTO THE PROCESSING AND THE WAY IT'S GROWN, IT CAN CREATE A DELICIOUS CUP OF COFFEE.

AND NOT ONLY THAT, IT CAN MAKE IT MUCH MORE SUSTAINABLE THROUGH ORGANIC FARMING BECAUSE IT'S SO MUCH MORE PEST RESISTANT.

WHAT'S HARD IS WE'VE DONE A LOT OF INVESTMENT INTO THE FARMS, INTO THE PROCESSING, INTO THE MANUFACTURING TO MAKE ORGANIC AND THE GRADE OF COFFEE THAT WE HAVE POSSIBLE ON THE PREMISE THAT IT WILL BE MUCH CHEAPER IN THE LONG-TERM FOR OUR CUSTOMERS TO HAVE ORGANIC COFFEE.

AND THE TARIFFS ERODE THOSE SAVINGS, RIGHT?

SO, NO LONGER ARE WE GOING TO BE A COMPETITIVE PRODUCT WITH WHAT WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON FOR THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS.

>> SO, LET'S GO TO YOU.

YOU'RE A NEW YORK-BASED COMPANY.

YOU KNOW, NEW YORK USED TO BE -- IT'S STILL A FASHION CAPITAL.

BUT A LOT OF FASHION, SHOES, CLOTHES, ARE MANUFACTURED IN CHINA.

WHY IS THAT?

>> WHEN WE STARTED OUR BUSINESS, WE DID MANUFACTURE IN THE GARMENT DISTRICT RIGHT HERE IN NEW YORK CITY.

AND EVEN COMPARED TO WHEN I STARTED THE BUSINESS IN 2013, THE GARMENT DISTRICT HAS SHRUNKEN DRAMATICALLY.

WE MANUFACTURE A LOT OF OUR CLOTHES UNTIL 2017 IN NEW YORK CITY.

AND REALLY AS THE BUSINESS GREW, WHICH WAS WONDERFUL, WE HAD NO CHOICE ACTUALLY BUT TO LEAVE A LOT OF OUR PARTNERS IN NEW YORK CITY.

AND AT THE SAME TIME THEY WERE ALSO LOSING BUSINESS.

SO, THEY WERE STARTING TO SHUT DOWN.

SO, I WANT TO SAY SINCE 2018, WE'VE BEEN MOSTLY 100%, YOU KNOW, MANUFACTURING OVERSEAS.

CHINA HAS BEEN JUST AN AMAZING SOURCE OF MANUFACTURING.

THEIR SKILL LEVEL IS SO HIGH.

THE CRAFTSMANSHIP.

IT TAKES REALLY GENERATIONS TO CREATE GOOD SEWERS.

EVERYONE THINKS THAT CLOTHING, SOME OF IT MUST BE AUTOMATED.

AND YES THERE IS SOME MACHINERY INVOLVED.

BUT EVERY SINGLE THING YOU ARE WEARING, SOMEONE IS SITTING BEHIND A SEWING MACHINE PUTTING THOSE PIECES OF FABRIC TOGETHER.

AND THAT'S NOT JUST A SKILL YOU CAN DEVELOP OVERNIGHT.

YOU KNOW, EVEN SOME OF THE BEST SEWERS IN NEW YORK CITY WHO REMAIN, THEY'RE IN THEIR 70s AND THEY DON'T HAVE ANYONE TO PASS IT DOWN TO.

SO, I THINK CHINA DOES HAVE THEIR CRAFTSMANSHIP, THEY HAVE THAT LEVEL OF SKILL.

AND HONESTLY WHEN WE MOVE SOME OF OUR MANUFACTURING OUT FROM NEW YORK CITY TO CHINA, WE WERE SURPRISED BY THE LEVEL OF QUALITY WE WERE GETTING.

>> THE ARGUMENT THE ADMINISTRATION IS MAKING IS THAT THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS, THEY SAY, IS TO RE-SHORE THESE INDUSTRIES.

HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE TO RE-SHORE YOUR OPERATION, ASSUMING IT COULD BE DONE IN A WAY THAT YOU COULD SUSTAIN YOUR BUSINESS?

>> IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT IMPOSSIBLE.

IT WOULD TAKE A TON OF INFRASTRUCTURE FROM THE GOVERNMENT.

BUT EVEN THE FACTORY SPACES YOU SEE IN THE GARMENT DISTRICT ARE TINY COMPARED TO THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT YOU HAVE IN FACTORIES IN CHINA, IN VIETNAM.

AND THEN YOU'VE GOT GENERATIONS OF SEWERS TRAINING THE NEXT GENERATION.

SO, OF COURSE ALL OF THIS IS POSSIBLE.

IT WOULD TAKE ENORMOUS RESOURCES.

AND ALSO WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT HOW WE ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, TRANSPORT THOSE GOODS.

SO, THAT'S INFRASTRUCTURE AGAIN AT A DIFFERENT SCALE.

DO WE HAVE THE TANKER SHIPS TO GET THINGS OVER FROM, I DON'T KNOW, NEW YORK TO DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE COUNTRY OR TRAINS?

IT'S KIND OF -- YOU KNOW, I'M NOT AN ECONOMIST, BUT TO ME THAT SOUNDS LIKE A LOT MORE MONEY.

>> IF THE TARIFFS ARE -- HOLD, WHAT DO YOU DO?

>> IT HAS BEEN TOTAL CHAOS WITH OUR PARTNERS BOTH IN VIETNAM AND CHINA, BUT SPECIFICALLY IN CHINA.

MY MAY COLLECTION HAS 90% EVAPORATED OVERNIGHT BECAUSE WE CANNOT AFFORD TO BRING IN GOODS FROM CHINA.

>> WOW.

WAIT, LET ME UNDERSTAND THIS.

YOU LITERALLY HAVE A COLLECTION THAT YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO BRING IN?

>> CORRECT.

AND FROM A CASH FLOW PERSPECTIVE, TOO -- I THINK THAT'S THE OTHER THING PEOPLE DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND WHEN THEY SAY, WELL, JUST RAISE PRICES.

YES, OF COURSE, WE COULD RAISE PRICES, AND YOU KNOW, EVENTUALLY PERHAPS THE CUSTOMERS WILL COVER THE COST OF THE TARIFF.

BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE DUTY THAT IS ACTUALLY THE TARIFFS THAT WE HAVE TO PAY THE GOVERNMENT, WE PAY IT OUT THE MOMENT OUR GOODS HIT THE UNITED STATES BORDER.

SO, FROM A CASH PERSPECTIVE, THAT'S AN OUTLAY THAT WE ARE MAKING TO THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.

AND WITHOUT CERTAINTY THAT THE CUSTOMER IS ACTUALLY GOING TO BE WILLING TO TAKE ON THOSE PRICE INCREASES.

>> DEBBIE, YOU WERE SAYING ONE OF YOUR INTENTIONS WAS TO IMPROVE STANDARDS OF LIVING IN VIETNAM BUT ALSO TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF THE PRODUCT.

AND IN SO DOING, YOU KNOW, IMPROVE PEOPLE'S LIVES.

WHAT ARE YOU SAYING TO THE FARMERS THAT YOU WORK WITH?

>> I MEAN, I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO TALK TO THE FARMERS DIRECTLY, BUT I'VE TALKED TO -- WE COORDINATE WITH THE AMAZING CO-OPS IN VIETNAM.

AND TALKING TO THEIR LEADERSHIP, I MEAN, I THINK THEY'RE INCREDIBLY STRESSED OUT.

I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING -- THEY SEE VIETNAM AND VIETNAMESE COFFEE BECOMING THIS REALLY EXCITING SPACE IN THE U.S. AND HOW THAT'S A HUGE OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO HAVE ACCESS TO MUCH HIGHER RATES IF THEY'RE ABLE TO CULTIVATE THEIR COFFEE A CERTAIN WAY.

IT'S AGAIN, A REALLY WONDERFUL THING FOR THEIR FARMS TO BE ABLE TO ELIMINATE CHEMICAL PESTICIDES AND FERTILIZERS AND GET A PREMIUM FOR THE EFFORT IN THE U.S. MARKET.

AND I THINK EVERYBODY IS JUST REALLY SITTING ON THE EDGE OF THEIR SEAT WANTING TO SEE WHAT IS THE NUMBER GOING TO BE?

YOU KNOW, IS IT GOING TO BE 10, AND IT GOING TO BE 46?

IS IT GOING TO BE ZERO BECAUSE COFFEE BECOMES EXEMPT?

WE REALLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AND KNOW THAT WHAT WE'RE FACING IS NOT BEING TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT IN THIS TRADE WAR.

SO WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PLAN WHATEVER IT IS THAT HAPPENS TO THE BUSINESSES.

>> SARAH, IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO BRING THESE GOODS IN, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE COMPANY?

>> THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION.

HONESTLY I HAVE BEEN GRAPPLING WITH JUST WHAT THE REALITY LOOKS LIKE FOR MY BUSINESS.

YOU KNOW, I THINK IN TIMES OF CHAOS, THE ADVICE THAT I'VE GOTTEN IS MOVE SLOW.

AND I THINK RIGHT NOW THINGS ARE CHANGING SO RAPIDLY.

YOU KNOW, ONE MOMENT IT'S 47%.

THE NEXT MOMENT, IT'S 150%.

I DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS.

I'M JUST TRYING TO TAKE IT ONE STEP AT A TIME.

YOU KNOW, WE ARE RAISING PRICES.

WE KNOW THAT WE ARE DOING THAT.

I HAVE ALREADY CUT COSTS, AND I WILL PROBABLY HAVE TO CUT SOME MORE.

I AM REJIGGERING ENTIRE COLLECTIONS.

IN THE OFFICE NEXT DOOR I'VE GOT PORTUGUESE PARTNERS I'M TRYING TO WOO BECAUSE THE TARIFFS IN PORTUGAL ARE GOING TO BE BETTER THAN THE TARIFFS IN CHINA.

IT IS A COMPLETE UPHEAVAL.

I HOPE MY BUSINESS SURVIVES.

IN FACT, I SHOULD SAY, I KNOW MY BUSINESS WILL SURVIVE.

YOU KNOW, COVID WAS ONE OF THOSE MOMENTS WHERE IT WAS SO DEVASTATING, AND I DIDN'T KNOW IF WE WOULD MAKE IT THROUGH, AND SOMEHOW WE MAGICALLY -- WE MAGICALLY DID THROUGH THE TEAM'S EXCEPTIONALLY HARD WORK.

AND IT IS ONE OF THOSE MOMENTS AGAIN WHERE I'M LOOKING AT MY TEAM AND I'M SAYING TO THEM, IT'S GOING TO BE ANOTHER HARD, GOSH, TWO, THREE YEARS.

WILL YOU FIGHT THIS WITH ME?

SO, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE FACING RIGHT NOW.

>> JUST A FEW DAYS AGO, THE ADMINISTRATION DECIDED TO EXEMPT CERTAIN PRODUCTS FROM THESE TARIFFS, MAINLY, YOU KNOW, ELECTRONICS.

SARAH, WHEN YOU HEARD THAT, WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND?

DID YOU FEEL -- DID YOU FEEL SOME KIND OF WAY ABOUT THAT, LIKE, WHY THAT AND NOT THIS?

>> I MEAN, MY HONEST REACTION WAS I FELT ANGRY.

YOU KNOW, I THINK PEOPLE WITH DIRECT ACCESS TO THE WHITE HOUSE AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE ABILITY TO LOBBY, THEY WILL GET SPECIAL PRIVILEGES AND ADVANTAGES THAT SMALL BUSINESSES LIKE MYSELF WON'T.

YOU KNOW, WE ARE A SMALL, SMALL BUSINESS IN THE CONTEXT OF THE U.S. ECONOMY.

BUT I THINK IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER U.S. SMALL BUSINESSES MAKE UP 45% OF THE COUNTRY'S GDP.

WE ARE NOT THE ONES MAKING ELECTRONICS.

WE ARE THE ONES MAKING CLOTHING, MAKING COFFEE, ENGAGING IN AGRICULTURE.

AND WE'RE A REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT PART OF THE U.S. ECONOMY.

BUT WE ARE NOT CAPABLE OF ACTUALLY MAKING, I THINK, OUR VOICES HEARD IN A WAY THAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT WILL UNDERSTAND.

>> DEBBIE, WHAT ABOUT YOU?

>> I ECHO EVERYTHING SARAH SAYS, AND I THINK THAT ADDITIONALLY, YOU KNOW, I WORK IN FOOD AND BEVERAGE AND I KNOW HOW MUCH THE HYPER-INFLATION THAT AMERICANS HAVE EXPERIENCED HAS BEEN SO, SO DETRIMENTAL TO THEIR EVERYDAY LIFE, AND I THINK THAT THESE TARIFFS ARE GOING TO JUST EXACERBATE THAT SO MUCH, WHETHER IT'S FOR THE RAW GOODS OR THE PACKAGING OR SO MUCH OF THE STUFF THAT THE U.S. IS NOT PREPARED TO BE ABLE TO MAKE EVERYTHING THAT AMERICANS HAVE BECOME ACCUSTOMED TO CONSUMING.

AND TO BE DOING THIS, ESPECIALLY ON TOP OF THE COFFEE CRISIS, I THINK, IS SOMETHING THAT IS JUST REALLY HURTING.

ESPECIALLY A LOT OF COFFEE ARE SMALL BUSINESSES.

THERE ARE SO MANY COFFEE SMALL BUSINESSES OUT THERE AND HOW WE'VE ALREADY BEEN SUFFERING FROM CLIMATE CHANGE, FROM A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT ARE AFFECTING OUR MARKET, AND THAT THESE TARIFFS ARE JUST GOING TO MAKE THINGS SO MUCH HARDER FOR US SMALLER PLAYERS IN THE MARKET.

>> THE PRESIDENT THEORY OF THE CASE IS THAT SHORT-TERM PAIN FOR LONG-TERM GAIN.

SO, DEBBIE, IN YOUR CASE, THERE'S REALLY NO WAY YOU CAN -- YOU CAN'T RE-SHORE THE COFFEE BUSINESS.

>> I'M NOT GOING TO BUY FARMLAND HERE AND PLANT TREES AND WAIT FOR THEM TO HARVEST FIVE YEARS LATER.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE U.S. IS IN A POSITION TO EVEN DO.

I THINK IT'S BEEN -- IT'S ONE OF THESE THINGS WHERE IT FEELS LIKE IT COULD BE -- LIKE SARAH SAID, I THINK WE'RE JUST TRYING TO SEE WHAT IT IS BECAUSE THERE ARE LEVELS OF TARIFFS WHICH IS JUST LETHAL TO BUSINESSES, TO SMALL BUSINESSES, WHETHER THAT'S CASH FLOW OR IF THAT'S JUST BECAUSE YOUR CUSTOMERS OR GROCERY STORES ARE GOING TO DROP YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO SAY YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO INCREASE PRICES BY 40%.

I CAN'T THINK OF A RETAILER WHO WOULD POSSIBLY LET YOU DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE MACRO ENVIRONMENT IS.

AND I THINK THIS IS JUST SOMETHING THAT IS -- IT'S JUST SOMETHING WE'RE JUST COLLATERAL DAMAGE TO AN ARGUMENT OR A STRATEGY THAT LIKE YOU SAID, THE LONG-TERM GAME FOR WHO?

AND I'M REALLY NOT SURE WHO THAT IS.

IT IS GOING TO BE THOSE WHO HAVE THE MONEY TO LOBBY FOR PROTECTIONS AGAINST THESE TARIFFS.

AND IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T TOTALLY MAKE SENSE FROM WHERE I'M SITTING TODAY.

>> AND SARAH, IS THERE ANY LONG-TERM GAIN THAT YOU CAN ENVISION HERE?

>> NO.

AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE WILL FIND A WAY.

WE WILL SURVIVE THIS.

BUT I THINK -- I'M WONDERING AT WHAT COST.

THAT'S REALLY THE MAIN QUESTION RUNNING THROUGH MY HEAD RIGHT NOW.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT BUSINESSES -- YOU KNOW, ANY BUSINESS OWNER WILL TELL YOU THAT UNPREDICTABILITY IS THE ENEMY OF BUSINESS GROWTH.

AND I THINK WHAT WE ARE ASKING FOR IS REALLY COMMUNICATION WITH A LOT OF ADVANCED NOTICE AND A LOT OF FIRM COMMUNICATION.

A LOT OF THESE CHALLENGES COULD BE OVERCOME.

THERE ARE WAYS THAT WE CAN GET AROUND IT WITH ADVANCED NOTICE.

BUT I THINK RIGHT NOW THAT IS WHAT FEELS IS LACKING.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT.

EVERY DAY IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

>> DEBBIE RAY MULLIN AND SARAH LaFLEUR, THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.