LAURA: Hey, Hi everyone.

I'm here this morning  with Barbara Chilcott.

She's senior attorney   with the Western Environmental Law Center and  we're going to talk about why conservation groups   are suing the U.S. Department of the Interior  over documents related to a 2021 report about   the federal oil and gas leasing program.

Barbara,  welcome and thanks for joining me this morning.

BARBARA: Good morning.

Thanks  Laura.

Good to be here.

LAURA: So, I was wondering, can  we just start with this 2021   Interior Department report, can you talk about  how that came about and what's in that report?

BARBARA: Sure, so in November of 2021  the Department of Interior released   a report that's called Report on the  Federal Oil and Gas Leasing Program,   prepared in response to Executive Order 14008.

So,  that tells you everything you need to know, right?

Basically, the background with this report  is, early in President Biden's Administration   in January of last year, he issued several  executive orders related to climate change.

This one executive order, 14008, it's called  tackling the climate crisis at home and abroad.

So, in that order, President Biden  acknowledged that we have a narrow moment   to avoid the most catastrophic impacts of the  climate crisis and that responding to the climate   crisis will require both significant short-term  global reductions in greenhouse gas emissions   and net zero emissions by 2050.

The President  also heralded this all-of-government approach that   reduces climate pollution, increases resilience  on the impacts of climate change, conserves our   land and waters, protects biodiversity and  several other lofty goals.

Most relevant to   this issue is that the order also ordered the  Department of Interior to complete a, quote,   comprehensive review and reconsideration  of its federal oil and gas program.

And, in doing so, it required the Secretary  of Interior to use her broad stewardship   responsibilities over public lands to look at  potential impacts of the federal oil and gas   program on climate and then take appropriate  action to account for climate costs.

So,   this report, issued by Department of Interior the  day after Thanksgiving on black Friday last year   really was, they, the expectation was that  the report would be this comprehensive review.

Really what it was, though,  it's a really a 12-page report   that provides concrete recommendations for  fiscal reforms, mostly including, like, royalties   and bidding requirements, bonding requirements  for oil and gas, for the oil and gas industry.

And so, that's what the report is  and our concern was that it really   left out the discussion on climate at all.

LAURA: Just to mention, there is a long history   of administrations who like to put out reports on  black Friday hoping that journalists won't cover   them and that the public doesn't notice them too  much.

I know that climate assessment came out on   black Friday a few years ago as well.

So you,  so you looked at this report and I'm guessing   conservation groups thought, “Okay, well there's  a whole bunch of stuff missing that's supposed   to be in there.” And you filed a Freedom of  Information Act request.

What were you trying to,   what were you hoping to get from  that request and what did you get,   I guess?

BARBARA: Yeah, so back,   so by way of background, the reason we were,  you know, this report was highly anticipated,   is because the Department of Interior is in charge  of federal oil and gas leasing on public lands,   which produces greenhouse gas emissions,  which are the root cause of global warming.

And then, to reverse climate change, we need to  reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

The federal oil   and gas program accounts for 25 percent of oil and  gas, of fossil fuel greenhouse gas emissions in   the country.

And so, it's a really big contributor  to, to the U.S.'s contribution to global warming.

And so, we filed on behalf of three conservation  groups: The Montana Environmental Information   Center, Wild Earth Guardians and the Center for  Biological Diversity.

We filed our Freedom of   Information Act request with four agencies: the  Secretary of Interior's Office, the Solicitor's   Office and Interior, The Bureau of Land Management  and the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management,   really seeking to understand why  there was such a disconnect between   the, President Biden's executive order, that  really did acknowledge and require response to   the climate crisis on the one hand and then on the  other hand Interior’s report which really failed   to mention climate at all.

And so, the point of  our request is to really understand, through the   Freedom of Information Act, what the government  is thinking.

And so, we asked for documents   related to the preparation of the report,  communications, drafts, things of that nature.

So far, we've received responses only from one  agency, the Bureau of Ocean, Energy Management   and those responses were heavily redacted.

And  most of the documents were withheld.

And so,   given that we, and then given the lack  of response from the other agencies, we   decided to go ahead and file the lawsuit  to see if a court would help us compel   or would compel the agencies to respond.

LAURA: So, and just a reminder to people   listening, the Freedom of Information Act is like,  it's not an optional thing for agencies to respond   to.

And anyone, you don't have to be an attorney  or a reporter to file a Freedom of Information   Act request.

It is supposed to be, you know, to  help people understand the workings of government   and to increase transparency.

And so, I guess,  you know, as a reporter, we always have problems   with the Freedom of Information Act.

Often time,  requests, agencies will take years and years to   respond to requests.

Were you surprised that the  Biden Administration, you know, which has, you   know, talked about transparency and climate change  and these things.

Were you surprised that you   didn't get what you were seeking, or get that yet?

BARBARA: No, I mean we… yes, we are surprised   given, you know, how urgent this need to respond  to the climate crisis is and so the reason we   have proceeded so diligently to collect this  information is, we really want to know if   this administration is going to live up to its  promises.

And, what we can expect going forward.

And so, yes, we were surprised, especially by just  the lack of communication from the agencies.

And,   in trying to work with us at all.

So, that kind of  spoke volumes to us in terms of the need for us to   take the next step and seek judicial intervention.

LAURA: And so, what happens next,   or what could happen next with the lawsuit?

BARBARA: So, the… so, we filed our lawsuit last   week and the government has 30 days to respond by  filing an answer in district court.

After that,   I, you know, it's uncertain.

I really hope that  it will serve as a catalyst for the agencies to,   you know, start responding and, you know, get in  touch with us about, you know, what we can expect   in terms of timing and, you know, what they intend  to produce.

So, it's really kind of up in the air   at the moment and the timing is uncertain.

LAURA: Yeah and so, I'm curious,   it's, you know, it's one thing  to issue an executive order,   particularly at the sort of toward the beginning  of someone's presidency, when clearly climate   change is an important issue to lots of  people… you know, kind of… how do you think…   is this sort of a bellweather for how seriously  the Biden Administration, across its agencies,   are going to take climate change?

It's  one thing to issue an executive order,   it's another to really carry it out.

BARBARA: And that's exactly right.

And that's   our concern, frankly, is that, they're, we were  so excited early on in the administration, on the,   you know, actions that were promised to address  climate change.

And so, I, you know, we hope this   isn't a bellweather.

We really do hope that the  administration will, kind of, get its feet under   it again and, you know, be brave and move forward  with doing what needs to be done to respond to the   moment at hand.

Yeah, that's our hope, for sure.

LAURA: And so, oil and gas is all over the   news right now, because of what's happening  between Russia and Ukraine.

I'm curious what   you think Americans need to really keep  in mind when it comes to oil and gas   leasing and the process of leasing and kind  of, you know, the availability of oil and gas   on the market and the timing of leases, right?

BARBARA: You know, I think what we're hearing   in the news right now is just this need to open up  more lands to new leases and just, you know, just   kind of let it, let the market take over.

And let  it just be a free-for-all.

But, the problem really   with that is that, you know, new leases take years  and years to, to develop and really, the kind of   the false narrative that's been spun by, you know,  the industry and some on the political side is,   it's really that our only hope is to, you  know, increase production of fossil fuels and   increased production at home where really… that  is, the opposite is true, where the more we   lock in our reliance on fossil fuels, the more  we're dependent on these geopolitical crises.

And,   and the more we harm our planet going forward.

And so, I, you know, I think the public really   should pay close attention to any message that's  coming out, that say, you know, our only hope is   to sell more oil and gas leases,  because that's just not the case, right?

LAURA: And we just keep seeing time  and time again and with increased   urgency that the last two IPCC reports that came  out really emphasized the connection between   oil and gas and greenhouse gas emissions and the  need to cut emissions to zero.

Do you see the   Biden Administration moving in that direction?

BARBARA:   Well, not at the moment and, I'm sorry,  I think my camera just froze.

So,   I apologize.

I kind of restart it, but no, and not  at the moment.

The steps being taken by the Biden   Administration really do seem to be moving not in  that direction.

To go to, to, you know, in fossil   fuel development on public lands or to get to  net zero by 2050, which really is the, you know,   the intent of the United States as positioned  in the Paris Agreement, where all nations have,   that are part of that Agreement, have committed to  holding global warming to two degrees celsius and   making efforts to limit it to 1.5 degrees Celsius.

So, the actions taken by the administration now   certainly aren't moving us in that direction.

LAURA: Well thanks Barbara.

I appreciate it   and we'll definitely check back to see what  happens for the lawsuit and what you find   out in the documents you hopefully get.

BARBARA: Great, thanks so much, Laura.

LAURA: Thanks.

BARBARA: Bye-bye