>> THE NEW COVID VARIANT, ITS EFFECT ON TRAVEL AS WELL AS OUR HEALTH INSURANCE.

PLUS, A LOOK AT GUN RIGHTS AND ATTITUDES AFTER THE KYLE RITTENHOUSE TRIAL.

THAT'S NEXT ON "IVORY TOWER."

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ WELCOME TO "IVORY TOWER."

I'M BARBARA FOUGHT FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

JOINING ME TONIGHT ON THE PANEL ARE TARA ROSS FROM ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE, ANIRBAN, RICK FENNER FROM UTICA COLLEGE AND BEN BAUGHMAN FROM CAZENOVIA COLLEGE.

OMICRON, A WORD WE DIDN'T QUITE KNOW A FEW WEEKS AGO BUT NOW EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT IT AND MANY OF US ARE, FRANKLY, SCARED BY IT.

IT STARTED IN SOUTH AFRICA, THE SCIENTISTS THERE WERE THE FIRST TO IDENTIFY IT AND NOW IT'S REACHED NEW YORK STATE AND SEVERAL OTHER STATES.

PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS RESTRICTED TRAVEL BETWEEN THE U.S. AND SEVEN AFRICAN COUNTRIES TRYING TO STOP THE SPREAD.

TARA, WAS BIDEN RIGHT TO BLOCK THE TRAVEL?

>> YES AND NO.

I THINK HE WAS RIGHT TO BLOCK THE TRAVEL BECAUSE ONE OF THE BIG CRIT SIMPLES OF PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS THE FACT THAT HE DIDN'T MOVE QUICKLY ENOUGH TO BAN INTERNATIONAL TRAVEL INTO THE UPS AND THERE WAS A FEELING INTO THE UNITED STATES AND THERE WAS THE FEELING THAT MUCH OF THE INITIAL SPREAD OF THE CORONAVIRUS CAME FROM PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN OUTSIDE OF THE COUNTRY COMING INTO THE COUNTRY, BRINGING IT WITH THEM.

SO PARTIALLY FOR THAT REASON, BIDEN WAS CORRECT.

ALSO THERE IS THE FACT THAT THIS OMICRON VARIANT SEEMS TO SPREAD MUCH QUICKER THAN PREVIOUS VARIANTS.

SO IF YOU ARE TRYING TO STEM THE TIDE OF THIS OR SLOW IT DOWN TO BAN TRAVEL FROM THE COUNTRIES WHERE IT WAS FIRST DISCOVERED AND WHERE IT SEEMS TO BE SPREADING THE QUICKEST SEEMS TO MAKE PERFECT SENSE.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT THIS VARIANT HAS ALSO BEEN FOUND IN PLACES IN EUROPE, FOUND IN CANADA.

NOW IT'S BEEN FOUND IN THE AND THE ONLY COUNTRIES WHERE HE BANNED INTERNATIONAL TRAVEL WAS FROM, AS YOU POINTED OUT, THOSE SEVEN AFRICAN COUNTRIES.

HE DIDN'T BAN INTERNATIONAL TRAVEL FROM ANY SO TO SPEAK THE WESTERN COUNTRIES.

AND THAT MAKES IT APPEAR TO BE RACIST AND HYPOCRITICAL BASED ON HIS CRITICISM OF PRESIDENT TRUMP.

>> BEN, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

THE WHITE HOUSE IS TALKING ABOUT EXPANDING IT?

SHOULD IT BE EXPANDED?

>> I AGREE WITH A LOT OF PAINTS TARA JUST MADE AND HERE'S WHY.

BECAUSE THIS IS A CRITICAL INCIDENT THAT HAS SPANNED TWO YEARS NOW AND WE SHOULD BE TREATING IT AS SUCH, PREVENTING WHERE WE CAN, AND WHATEVER WORKS AND WE KNOW THAT NOT MANDATING PER SE SHOTS BUT WEARING A MASK, GETTING RANDOMLY TESTED AND GETTING A VEEN WORKS AND WE KNOW MITIGATING IT.

SO IF WE CAN REDUCE THE RISK OF SPREADING IT AND THE RISK OF HOW SEVERE IT IS AND FINALLY INVESTIGATING SO IF WE CAN PREVENT WHAT WE CAN, INVESTIGATE IT WHEN WE CAN'T AND MITIGATE WHAT WE CAN, THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO GO.

>> THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS IN A BIND.

IF YOU DON'T BAN, PEOPLE BLAME YOU AND IF YOU DO BAN, PEOPLE BLAME YOU.

THIS IS THE NATURE OF THE PANDEMIC ITSELF.

ONE OF THE MOST VISIBLE WAYS TO SEE THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS TAKING SOME INITIATIVE IS TO INCLUDE SOME KIND OF TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS BUT I HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS PREVIOUSLY ON THIS SHOW THAT YOU KNOW, THIS IS A GLOBAL PANDEMIC AND WE CANNOT TAKE A NATIONAL ONLY INTEREST-BASED APPROACH AND THERE SHOULD BE GLOBAL APPROACHES OF GETTING THE SHOTS IN THE ARM BUT I UNDERSTAND AND HISTORIANS ARE POINTING OUT THERE IS A VIRULENT ANTI-VACCING RHETORIC WHICH IS NEW IN HISTORY.

THE POLIO VACCINE AND ALL THAT STUFF WAS EASIER TO DO.

SO YES, TRAVEL BAN IS SOMETHING VISIBLE BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF WE ARE NOT GETTING EVERYONE VACCINATED, WE WILL BE GETTING HIT BY MORE COMPLEX THAN OMICRON.

>> WILL THIS WORK BETTER THAN KEEPING OTHER COUNTRIES FROM FLYING OVER HERE IS RAPID TESTING.

RAPID TESTING HAS SHOWN TO BE THE BEST AND IDENTIFYING IF SOMEONE IS INFECTIOUS AND THAT'S WAS WE SHOULD BE DOING BECAUSE WE ARE GETTING IT BACK IN 15 MINUTES.

HOW DO WE MOTIVATE TO GET RAPIDLY TESTED BEFORE THEY HOP ON A PLANE.

>> THAT'S A NEW REQUIREMENT.

IT USED TO BE THREE DAYS AND NOW USE THE 24 HOURS.

>> YOU HAVE THE PCR THAT TAKES 48 HOURS TO COME BACK AND IT'S MORE EFFECTIVE AS FAR AS NOT HAVING FALSE NEGATIVES.

BUT IT'S NOT AS EFFECTIVE IDENTIFYING IF THE PERSON IS INFECTIOUS.

>> I THINK I HAVE TO AGREE.

THE LONG RUN SOLUTION IS TO GET PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD VACCINATED.

THE VIRUS KNOWS NO BOUNDARIES AND WE HAVE DONE A PRETTY GOOD JOB IN THE UNITED STATES.

ANYONE WHO WANTS TO BE VACCINATED CAN BE ON DEMAND.

AND SO WE HAVE BEEN GUILTY OF NOT ENSURING THAT PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE GLOBE ARE AVAILABLE TO BE VACCINATED.

THE OTHER THING IS THE TRAVEL BANS HAVE NEGATIVE IMPACTS ON THE ECONOMIES.

AND CREATED DISINCENTIVE FOR THESE COUNTRIES TO GO THROUGH AND DO THE TESTING AND BEING TRANSPARENT ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE FINDING IF THEY THINK THEY'RE GOING TO BE SANCTIONED.

>> RICK, I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE U.S. ECONOMY, TOO.

IS NOT HAVING FOREIGN TRAVELERS COMING IN BUYING PROPERTY, TOURISM DOLLARS OR INVESTING IN U.S.

CORPORATIONS, THAT GOING TO AFFECT THE ECONOMY HERE?

>> OF COURSE THIS IS GOING TO AFFECT, BUT IT'S GOING TO END UP BEING SHORT-TERM I THINK BIDEN SUGGESTED DEALING WITH THE NEW VARIANT BY NOT SHUTTING DOWN THE ECONOMY BUT BY OTHER MEANS.

I DON'T THINK THE AMOUNT OF TRAVEL AGAIN, AS TARA MENTIONED, ONLY SEVEN COUNTRIES THAT WE HELD TRAVEL OUT OF.

I DON'T THINK THEY'RE MAKING A HUGE IMPACT.

I DO THINK THERE ARE ECONOMIC IMPACTS OF THIS BUT I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GOING TO BE LARGE THIS CASE.

>> TARA, YOU MENTIONED THE RACIST OVERTONES.

DO YOU THINK THIS IS GOING TO HURT BIDEN POLITICALLY.

>> I THIS TIME WILL TELL FOR >> I THINK TIME WILL TELL FOR THIS REASON.

AS THE NUMBERS ARE GOING UP IN AFRICA WITH THE OMICRON VARIANT, IF IT APPEARS THE NUMBERS ARE GOING UP, PEOPLE WILL, I THINK LOOK BEYOND THIS AND WILL SAY OKAY, HE WAS RIGHT.

HE WAS RIGHT TO GO AHEAD, MOVE QUICKLY, TAKE ACTION AND PEOPLE WILL LOOK BEYOND IT.

BUT IF THE NUMBERS IN AMERICA CONTINUE TO GO UP, ESPECIALLY IF THEY CONTINUE TO GO UP WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T BEEN TO SOUTH AFRICA OR HAVEN'T BEEN TO SOME OF THE OTHER COUNTRIES, THEN PEOPLE WILL SAY OKAY, IT'S VERY CLEAR THIS CAME FROM OTHER COUNTRIES OTHER THAN COUNTRIES WITHIN AFRICA AND IT IS RACIST AND YOU NEED TO RETHINK THE POLICY.

>> ANIRBAN, WHAT IS YOUR THOUGHT ABOUT THAT?

>> I THINK TARA IS RIGHT.

I DON'T THINK THERE IS GOING TO BE A BACKLASH BASED ON RACISM PER SE AND I THINK HE WILL BE BLAMED IF HE DOES NOT CLOSE DOWN PLACES FROM WHERE SOUTH AFRICAN SCIENTISTS HAVE SAID AND THAT IS AN AMAZING PRAISE THAT THEY SHOULD GET, THAT THIS IS A VARIANT OF CONCERN AND WITH WHO HAS SAID IT'S A CONCERN.

IT MIGHT BE POLITICAL SUICIDE TO NOT PUT SOME RESTRICTIONS BUT I DON'T THINK THE RESTRICTIONS WOULD BE LONG-TERM.

I DON'T THINK IT'S A RACIST BACKLASH, ESPECIALLY COMPARED TO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

>> WE ARE PENALIZING THE COUNTRY THAT FOUND IT QUICK AND LET US KNOW.

VERSUS OTHER COUNTRIES THAT ARE NOT BEING AS OPEN ABOUT WHAT VARIANTS THEY HAVE.

>> WELL, ALSO ON COVID THERE IS AN ASSEMBLYMEMBER FROM BUFFALO, ACTUALLY A DEMOCRAT, PAT BURKE WHO SAID HE IS INTRODUCING A BILL IN ALBANY TO ALLOW INSURANCE COMPANIES TO DENY COVERAGE IF PEOPLE HAVE NOT TAKEN THE COVID VACCINE.

AND I'M WONDERING WHAT DO YOU THINK, RICK OF THIS NO VACCS NO PAY CONCEPT?

>> I THINK ALLOWING DIFFERENT COMPANIES TO BASE RATES ON VACCINATION STATUS IS GOING DOWN A VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE.

WHAT OTHER BEHAVIORS WILL THEY THEN INCORPORATE INTO THEIR FEES AND THEIR RATES, HOW YOU EAT, WHETHER YOU SMOKE, WHETHER YOU DRIVE TOO FAST, WHETHER YOU EXERCISE TOO LITTLE OR TOO MUCH.

>> BUT DON'T THEY ALREADY GIVE HIGHER PREMIUMS TO SMOKERS?

>> HEALTH INSURANCE CAN.

THAT'S THE ONE EXCEPTION.

THEY CAN USE OBESITY BUT IT CANNOT BE USED IN TERMS OF HEALTH INSURANCE.

LIFE INSURANCE BUT NOT HEALTH INSURANCE.

I JUST THINK THERE ARE OTHER METHODS AVAILABLE TO THEM.

CURRENTLY MANY HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE WAVING CO-PAYS FOR TREATMENT OF COVID INCLUDING HOSPITAL OUT OF POCKET COSTS.

IF THEY WERE TO ELIMINATE THOSE WAIVERS, THEN THOSE PEOPLE THAT GO AND SUFFER FROM COVID-19, WHICH ARE OVERWHELMINGLY THOSE THAT ARE NOT VACCINATED, WILL END UP SHOULDERING MORE OF THE COSTS.

AND AGAIN, EMPLOYERS CAN IMPOSE SURCHARGES AND MANDATE THEM.

SO I THINK HEALTH INSURANCE IS MEANT TO SHARE THE RISK OF HAVING MEDICAL PROBLEMS AND I WORRY ABOUT IF THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO START TO GET THIS LAUNDRY LIST OF BEHAVIORS THAT INSURANCE COMPANIES CAN USE TO CHARGE HIGHER PREMIUMS, THAT IS GOING TO USE TO CHARGE HIGHER PREMIUMS.

>> THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS AND SMOKING IS THIS IS A CONTAGIOUS DISEASE AS OTHERS ARE NOT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS?

>> I'M GOING TO AGREE WITH RICK ON THIS ONE.

I DO BELIEVE THAT THIS IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE AND I THINK THAT WHAT THEY SHOULD BE MORE INCENTIVES IF YOU ARE NOT VACCINATED, THEN MAYBE YOU GO AND YOU GET TESTED ON A MORE REGULAR BASIS, SOME SORT OF INCENTIVE RATHER THAN GOING STRAIGHT FOR THE POCKETBOOK JUST BECAUSE YOU MAY HAVE A RELIGIOUS 3 COMPONENT THAT KEEPS FROM YOU GETTING VACCINATED.

OR YOU ARE ALLERGIC TO SOME OF THE INGREDIENTS INSIDE THE VACCINE AND I THINK THAT WAS A HUGE MISTAKE FOR TO US HAVE GOVERNMENT OVERREACH.

>> WHAT ABOUT AN ADDITIONAL EXTRA PAYMENT IF YOU ARE NOT VACCINATED.

COST YOU MORE?

IT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT.

>> I DON'T AGREE WITH IT.

>> I DON'T AGREE WITH IT AS WELL.

LET'S TAKE THE IDEA OF THE EXTRA PAYMENT.

WELL, AS WELL LONG AS YOU ARE HEALTHY, WHY SHOULD YOU PAY EXTRA?

IF YOU BECOME ILL, THE QUESTION BECOMES CAN YOU PINPOINT-- NOW OBVIOUSLY SOME HEALTH ISSUES YOU CAN PINPOINT RIGHT AWAY.

THIS IS COVID RELATED BUT WHAT IF YOU ALREADY MAYBE HAVE A VIRUS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

HOW DO THEY PINPOINT THAT THIS IS ABSOLUTELY CONNECTED WITH COVID AND SO THAT'S ONE OF MY CONCERNS IS THAT INSURANCE COMPANIES WILL BEGIN TO USE THIS AND SAY WELL THIS IS COVID RELATED.

WAS IT REALLY COVID RELATED OR ARE YOU USING THIS TO CHARGE THE INDIVIDUAL MORE THE OTHER CONCERN I HAVE ABOUT THIS IS I THE OTHER CONCERN I HAVE ABOUT THIS IS I LIKEN IT TO PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN AREAS WHERE THERE ARE NUMEROUS FOREST FIRES OR PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN FLOOD AREAS AND OKAY, PERHAPS WHAT YOU SAY IS OKAY IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE VACCINATED, YOU HAVE TO TAKE OUT NON-VACCINATION INSURANCE AND THAT THEN ALLOWS PEOPLE TO MAKE THAT DECISION, I'M WILLING TO PAY THE EXTRA INSURANCE FOR WHATEVER THE REASON.

BUT I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE AUTOMATIC.

YOU ARE NOT VACCINATED SO AUTOMATICALLY YOU HAVE TO PAY MORE.

>> SO THE EEOC, EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION GAVE A DIRECTIVE IN MAY THIS YEAR AND IT SAID YOU KNOW, THE INSURERS, OF COURSE, ACCORDING TO THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, YOU CANNOT EXCLUDE PEOPLE FROM OR RAISE PREMIUMS OR RAISE PREMIUMS BUT IF THERE IS PREEXISTING CONDITIONS.

BUT THERE IS A TOOL THAT IS CALLED THE WELLNESS INISN'T SENTIVES WHERE EMPLOYERS CAN GIVE CERTAIN INCENTIVES FOR GETTING VACCINATED OR CERTAIN PENALTIES.

BUT IT HAS TO, YOU KNOW, COMPLY WITH A.D.A.

AND TITLE 7 OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT AND IT SAYS THAT THOSE INCENTIVES CANNOT BE SO SUBSTANTIAL AS TO BE COERCIVE.

WHAT IS SUBSTANTIAL AND WHAT IS COERCIVE.

THEY HAVE NOT CLARIFIED IT YET.

BUT IT SEEMS YOU CAN PROVIDE PENALTIES AND SURCHARGES IN TERMS OF WELLNESS INCENTIVE TOOL.

AND I THINK THE DATA IS SHOWING CLEARLY THAT INSURANCE SURCHARGES MOTIVATE.

THERE WAS A RECENT STUDY, 43% SAID YES THAT WE ARE MOTIVATED IF YOU HAVE $100 SURCHARGE TO, YOU KNOW, GET VACCINE.

I THINK THAT IS ANOTHER ROUTE THAT DIFFERENT COMPANIES CAN TAKE.

BUT THEN AGAIN WHENEVER I TALK IS ABOUT HEALTHCARE, I MEAN MY MIND EXPLODES, IT'S SO COMPLICATED.

>> YOU ARE MOTIVATED IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT.

YOU ARE MOTIVATING MIDDLE-CLASS AND LOWER CLASS TO GO AND GET A VACCINE.

BUT IF YOU HAVE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS SITTING IN YOUR BANK, WHAT IS AN EXTRA $100?

HONESTLY I THINK THAT'S THE WRONG APPROACH AND I THINK IT'S A SLIPPERY SLOPE.

>> LET ME END BY ASKING THE ECONOMIST.

DO THESE INCENTIVES WORK?

>> YES, THEY DO.

SOME INSURANCE COMPANIES PROVIDE INCENTIVES IF YOU GO TO THE GYM AND ENGAGE IN OTHER HEALTHY BEHAVIORS AND THERE ARE SOME STUDIES THAT SHOW THAT PEOPLE WILL GO MORE OFTEN AND SOME WILL EVEN JOIN SO I THINK INCENTIVES WORK.

>> LET ME MOVE US TO OUR THIRD TOPIC.

THIS WEEK WE HAD ANOTHER SCHOOL SHOOTING THIS TIME IN MICHIGAN AND ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO, KYLE RITTENHOUSE WAS FOUND NOT GUILTY OF THE SHOOTINGS IN WISCONSIN AND BOTH ARE BRINGING ABOUT REASSESSMENT OF WHERE WE ARE IN THIS COUNTRY ABOUT GUN RIGHTS AND GUN CONTROL.

SOME THINK THE RITTENHOUSE VERDICT HAS EMPOWERED THE GUN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS.

AND I'M WONDERING, ANIRBAN, HAS IT?

>> LET'S TALK BRIEFLY ABOUT THE TRIAL FIRST.

I THINK THE RITTENHOUSE WENT THE RIGHT WAY.

THE PROSECUTOR BROUGHT IN WITNESSES THAT SUPPORT THE DEFENSE'S CLAIM.

THE VIDEO FOOTAGE WAS GRAINY AND SO ON AND SO FORTH SO MANY LEGAL EXPERTS FROM ALL DIFFERENT PERSUASIONS CHIMED IN AND THEY ALL THINK UNANIMOUSLY THAT THE VERDICT WENT AS THEY WERE EXPECTING IT TO GO.

WHAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT IS TEXTBOOK POLITICAL SCIENCE ISSUE.

THE STATE, WE HAVE LEARNED, HAS A MONOPOLY OVER VIOLENCE AND THE POLICE IMPLEMENT THE VIOLENCE ACCORDING TO LAW.

NOW WHEN WE HAVE A LARGE NUMBER OF CIVILIAN MILITIA WITH GUNS STANDING WITH THE POLICE, THAT BOUNDARY, THAT CRUCIAL BOUNDARY BETWEEN WHO HAS THE MONOPOLY OF VIOLENCE GETS BLURRED.

THAT'S A HUGE DANGER.

I WANT TO POINT OUT A VERY IMPORTANT JENNIFER CARL SON WROTE A BOOK CALLED POLICING THE SECOND AMENDMENT AND SHE INTERVIEWS A LOT OF POLICE OFFICERS AND LOOK AT THE DISCOURSES.

THERE ARE TWO DISCOURSES GOING ON.

ONE IS CALLED GUN MILITARISM WHICH IS THAT THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY URBAN BLACK MALES WHO SHOULD NOT HAVE GUNS.

THEY'RE DANGEROUS SO ON AND SO FORTH.

BUT THE OTHER IS GUN POPULISM WHERE THERE ARE OTHER TYPE OF PEOPLE, PREDOMINANTLY WHITE MEN, WHO ARE PROTECTORS OF OUR SOCIETY AND ARE OKAY TO HAVE GUNS.

THEY ARE-- AND I THINK THIS ANALYSIS IS A MUCH MORE INTERESTING ANALYSIS TO SEE WHAT KIND OF DISCOURSES OPERATE WITHIN IN IDEA OF GUN POLITICS.

SO I THINK THAT WAS SOMETHING I SAW THAT DISTURBS ME AND DISTURBS ME WHEN I SEE CIVILIAN PEOPLE OUT WITH GUNS AND POLICE GIVING THEM WATER SAYING THANK YOU FOR HELPING US.

THAT'S TERRIFYING.

>> BEN.

>> I THINK ONE TRIAL THAT ALSO CONCLUDED THE SAME WORK IS THE AHMAUD ARBERY CASE IN WHICH THREE MEN WERE CONVICTED OF MURDER FOR WHAT THEY SAID WAS CITIZENS ARREST AND ALSO SELF-DEFENSE.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT THIS RITTENHOUSE CASE IS GOING TO END-- TAKE ON SOME LIFE OF NOW WE CAN ALL TAKE GUNS AND GO AROUND AND BE VIGILANTES.

I CAN'T EVEN SAY IT RIGHT.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

I THINK WHAT HE ARTICULATED THROUGH HIS ATTORNEY WAS SELF-DEFENSE.

IT WAS TWO WHITE MEN THAT WERE CHASING HIM.

ONE OF THEM WAS POSSESSING A GUN AND HE WAS A FELON.

SO THE CASE IS DIFFERENT.

>> AND YET THE REPUBLICANS ARE KIND OF MAKING RITTENHOUSE AS A HERO.

>> YEAH, I DON'T AGREE WITH MAKING HIM A HERO.

I THINK THAT HE HAD HEROIC INTENTIONS WHEN HE WENT THERE AS FAR AS TRYING TO HELP PROTECT PEOPLE THAT WERE THERE AND PROPERTY.

BUT I THINK IF HE HAD TO DO IT OVER AGAIN, I DON'T THINK HE WOULD DO IT.

I DON'T THINK HE WOULD HAVE GONE-- YOU DON'T USE WEAPONS TO PROTECT PROPERTY.

YOU CAN REPLACE PROPERTY.

YOU USE WEAPONS TO PROTECT PEOPLE.

>> I'M CONFUSED HERE BECAUSE YOU SAID THAT HE WAS CHASED BY SOMEONE WITH A GUN AND THAT WAS A FELON, WHICH RITTENHOUSE DID NOT KNOW ALL OF THOSE FACTS.

AND SO IT REALLY RAISES THE QUESTION AT WHAT POINT IS SOMEONE THREATENED ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO USE A GUN IN PUBLIC?

WE WRESTLE WITH THE FACT THAT POLICE HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME, YOU KNOW, AS WAS SAID, IN TERMS OF HANDLING THOSE TYPES OF SITUATIONS AND THEY MAKE MANY MISTAKES AND THEY ARE BOTH WELL TRAINED IN HOW TO USE WEAPONS AS WELL AS IN HOW TO DEESCALATE SITUATIONS.

AND SO ALLOWING PEOPLE TO CARRY GUNS.

IF I WALK UP TO SOMEONE AND I'M ANGRY WITH THEM AND I REACH FOR MY POCKET, DOES THAT GIVE SOMEONE THE RIGHT TO THINK THAT OH FENNER MIGHT HAVE A GUN IN HIS POCKET.

I CAN NOW TAKE MY GUN OUT AND PREEMPTIVELY DEFEND MYSELF?

I SEE THERE ARE A LOT OF PROBLEMS HERE.

WILL IT HAPPEN DAILY ON EVERY STREET?

NO.

BUT I THINK WE ARE GOING TO SEE THAT THESE TYPES OF THINGS HAPPEN MORE OFTEN AND IT'S GOING TO MEAN MORE INJURY AND MORE DEATH AND, BY THE WAY, THERE ARE LEFT WING GROUPS OUT THERE THAT ALSO ARE VIOLENT AND THIS COULD BECOME A PROBLEM DOWN THE ROAD I'M AFRAID.

>> I ABSOLUTELY AGREE.

ONE OF THE BIG THINGS THAT STOOD OUT TO ME WAS THESE SORT OF EXPANDING OF THE DEFENSE OF SELF AND OTHERS.

AND I THINK INHERENT IN THE IDEA OF DEFENSE OF SELF AND DEFENSE OF OTHERS IS THE EMINENCE OF DANGER.

AND ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS THAT THE PROSECUTION TRIED TO MAKE IS THAT IF KYLE RITTENHOUSE HAD NEVER TAKEN HIMSELF THERE, HE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN IN THAT POSITION TO BE IN ANY DANGER.

HE WAS NOT PART OF THE PROTEST.

HE DIDN'T OWN THE PROPERTY.

SO HE LITERALLY PUT HIMSELF IN THE MIDDLE OF SOMETHING THAT HE REALLY HAD NO REASON TO PUT HIMSELF IN THE MIDDLE OF.

AND SO THIS VERY MUCH CONCERNS ME, AS RICK POINTS OUT, THIS NOTION THAT BECAUSE I THINK YOU MIGHT BE A DANGER TO ME OR IT APPEARS THAT YOU ARE COMING AT ME, OKAY, I CAN DEFEND MYSELF.

WELL, WAIT A MINUTE.

WHAT IF IT APPEARS THAT YOU ARE COMING AT MY DOG AND NOW I DECIDE TO SHOOT YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE COMING AT MY DOG OR IT APPEARS LIKE YOU ARE COMING TOWARDS MY NEIGHBOR, I CAN SHOOT YOU FOR THAT REASON.

I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THIS EXPANSION OF WHAT IT MEANS DEFENSE OF SELF, DEFENSE OF OTHERS.

AND I ALSO THINK ANIRBAN, YOU MADE A VERY GOOD POINT ABOUT THIS NOTION OF MAN OF COLOR, IF THEY HAVE A GUN, THEY'RE A THREAT.

BUT IF THEY'RE EUROPEAN AMERICAN AND THEY HAVE A GUN AND THEY SAY THEY'RE DEFENDING SOMETHING, THAT'S OKAY.

AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE REASON TO GET BACK TO YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION, I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE REASON YOU HAVE SOME REPUBLICANS REALLY SORT OF TRYING TO MAKE KYLE RITTENHOUSE THIS SORT OF HERO BECAUSE THEY WANT TO SEE THAT NOTION, WHICH IS A NOTION THAT WE HAVE BEEN WORKING TO SORT OF GET AWAY FROM.

THEY WANT TO SEE THAT REVIVED.

>> BEN, I'M WONDERING ABOUT THE NEW POLLS THAT SHOW SUPPORT FOR STRICTER GUN CONTROLS IS FALLING.

IT'S DOWN TO 52%, THE LOWEST READING SINCE 2014.

>> FIRST OF ALL I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S CLEAR THAT HE WAS NOT STANDING HIS GROUND.

HE WAS RUNNING.

HE WAS BEING CHASED.

HE WAS BEING BEATEN.

HE WAS BEING HIT AND THEY WERE TRYING TO TAKE HIS GUN FROM HIM.

THIS IS NOT A QUESTION OF HE WAS TRYING TO REACH IN HIS POCKET AND THEN THAT'S WHY HE SHOT THEM.

AND TO GO BACK TO THE POLLS, YEAH, THE MORE THAT WE SEE PEOPLE GETTING KILLED WITH GUNS, AND THAT'S THE METHOD THAT IS ABOUT 80% OF OUR MURDERS, WITH GUNS, THAT'S GOING TO PERSUADE PEOPLE TO SAY HEY, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD CHANGE OUR CULTURE.

THE REALITY IS, WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO CHANGE OUR CULTURE.

THIS IS AMERICA.

>> RIGHT.

AND THIS IS TO BE CONTINUED.

GUNS HAS OFTEN BEEN A TOPIC HERE.

TIME TO OPEN UP THE GRADEBOOK AND LET'S FIND OUT ABOUT Fs PLEASE AND TARA YOU ARE FIRST.

>> MY F TO CONGRESS FOR ONE OF PRACTICES ACT RULES WHICH BECAME EFFECTIVE NOVEMBER 31.

THIS ALLOWS DEBT COLLECTORS WITHOUT THE EXPRESSED PERMISSION OF THE CONSUMER TO TEXT, EMAIL OR DIRECT MESSAGE THE INDIVIDUAL VIA SOCIAL MEDIA.

CONSUMERS MUST ACTIVELY OPT OUT OF THIS AND THERE ARE NO PROTECTIONS IN THE RULE TO PREVENT SPAM OR DIRECT COLLECTION SCAMS.

>> I JUST GROANED WHEN I HEARD THAT ONE.

APP BAN, YOUR F. >> MY BIG F GOES TO ARIZONA CONGRESSMAN PAUL GOSAR FOR HIS TOXIC MASCULINITY AND UNCOUTH HATEFUL ACTIONS OF POSTING DEBTED THREATS RELATED ANIMAE AGAINST HIS FELLOW COLLEAGUE CONGRESSWOMAN OCTAVIO CORTEZ, WHITE MEN PUBLICLY FANTASIZING MURDERING PEOPLE OF COLOR.

>> MY F GOES TO LOUISIANA STATE UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT WILLIAM TATE I SEEN HERE SMILING WILLIAM TATE IV SEEN HERE SMILING WITH BRIAN KELLY, S.U.

'S NEW FOOTBALL COACH.

THE PROBLEM IS KELLY HAS ABANDONED HIS CURRENT TEAM NOTRE DAME AS THEY GET CLOSE TO MAKING IT TO THE COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS.

WHY MY F TO THE PRESIDENT?

BECAUSE BY OFFERING KELLY THE JOB AND REQUIRING HIM TO SIGN NOW RATHER THAN WAITING UNTIL THE END OF THE SEASON, LSU HAS ENCOURAGED HIM AND ENTICED HIM TO WALK AWAY FROM THE COMMITMENT HE MADE TO THE PLAYERS AT INVENTORY NOTRE DAME.

>> MY F GOES TO A BAIL SYSTEM THAT ALLOWED A VIOLENT EX OFFENDER SPANNING THREE STATES AND HELD FOR RUNNING OVER HIS EX-GIRLFRIEND TO BE ALLOWED TO BE RELEASED AT A $1,000 CASH BOND.

DARYL BROOKS ALLEGEDLY RAN OVER THE MOTHER OF HIS CHILDREN IN THE BEGINNING OF NOVEMBER 2021.

HE WAS LET OUT AND LESS THAN A WEEK OF BEING LET OUT, HE RAN OVER MULTIPLE PEOPLE AT A CHRISTMAS PARADE, KILLING SIX AND HURTING 60 OTHERS.

NOW ADDITIONALLY TO THIS, HE WAS CURRENTLY BEING-- AN OPEN FELONY CASE ON HIM FOR SHOOTING AT HIS NEPHEW IN JULY.

>> TARA YOUR A.

EYE A GOES TO GOLFER LEE ELDER, THE FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN TO PLAY IN THE MASTERS TO JOIN THE P.G.A.

TOUR AND QUALIFY FOR MEMBERSHIP ON AMERICA'S RYDER CUP TEAM.

Mr. ELDER WHO RECENTLY PASSED AWAY, PASSED THROUGH THE DOOR THAT TIGER WOODS WALKED THROUGH.

>> MY A GOES TO THE FARMERS OF INDIA AND THEIR INTERNATIONAL ALLIES HERE IN THE U.S. AND AROUND THE WORLD FOR THEIR SUSTAINED PROTESTS AGAINST THE DRACONIAN 2020 FARM ORDINANCES THAT WAS IMPOSED BY THE MODI GOVERNMENT.

RECENTLY THE MODI GOVERNMENT HAD TO REPEAL THEM COMPLETELY AND THIS IS AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE OF HOW NON-VIOLENT STRUGGLE AGAINST INJUSTICE WORKS.

MODI-GOVERNMENT HERE AS WELL.

>> MY A TO WOMEN'S TENNIS ASSOCIATION FOR PUTTING HUMAN RIGHTS AHEAD OF PROFITS.

WTA ANNOUNCED THE SUSPENSION OF ALL PROFESSIONAL TENNIS TOURNAMENTS IN CHINA AFTER A FORMER TENNIS PLAYER, PENG SHUAI, PROCLAIMED SHE WAS SEXUALLY ASSAULTED BY A TOP CHINESE OFFICIAL AND SUBSEQUENTLY DISAPPEARED.

THEY IT CANCEL 10 TOURNAMENTS ACCOUNTING FOR 30% OF THE TOUR'S REVENUE.

>> MY A GOES TO THE OFFICERS WHO ENTERED OXFORD HIGH SCHOOL THIS WEEK AND ARRESTED THE ACTIVE SHOOTER WITHIN THREE MINUTES.

FOUR STUDENTS DIED AS A RESULT OF THE ACTIVE SHOOTER.

15-YEAR-OLD WAS RECOVERED WITH A LOADED GUN.

HE HAD SHOT 30 ROUNDS, HAD 18 LIVE ROUNDS ON HIM WHEN HE WAS ARRESTED.

THE RAPID RESPONSE OF THE DEPUTIES GOING INTO DANGER AND TAKING THE SUSPECT INTO CUSTODY SAFETIED LIVES.

>> THANKS TO THOSE OFFICERS.

AND THANKS TO YOU FOR WATCHING.

PLEASE LET US KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS ABOUT THE TOPICS WE'VE DISCUSSED ATTORNEY.

YOU CAN WRITE US AT THE ADDRESSES ON YOUR SCREEN AND IF YOU MISS THE SHOW ANY FRIDAY NOTICE, TUNE US IN SATURDAY AFTERNOONS AT 5:30 OR WE ARE STREAMING ANY TIME AT WCNY.ORG.

GOOD NIGHT.