♪♪♪ >> ERIC: "TRAVELING WITHOUT MOVING: ESSAYS FROM A BLACK WOMAN TRYING TO SURVIVE IN AMERICA" WAS RELEASED BY THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA PRESS EARLIER THIS MONTH.

WE'RE LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE THE AUTHOR RIGHT HERE WITH US TONIGHT, AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF ENGLISH AND WOMEN'S STUDIES AT ST. CATHERINE UNIVERSITY, TAIYON COLEMAN.

WELL, PROFESSOR, HERE'S -- WHAT LEAPED OUT AT ME, PEOPLE DO NOT LISTEN TO BLACK WOMEN.

>> YES.

>> Eric: WHAT'S GOING ON THERE?

THE STRONG BLACK WOMAN IS KIND OF PARAMOUNT IN THE CULTURE, ISN'T IT?

>> I KNOW.

WELL, FIRST, I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> Eric: OH, SURE.

>> Cathy: NICE TO HAVE YOU.

>> I THINK IT CONNECTS TO HISTORICAL PARADIGMS, PARTICULARLY IF YOU ARE DESCENDENTS OF AFRICAN AMERICAN LAVES IN THE UNITED STATES, OFTENTIMES THE BLACK WOMAN IS SEEN AS A DOMESTICATED FIGURE, A PERSON WITH NOT A LOT OF POWER, IT IS A RACIAL STEREOTYPE, AND OFTENTIMES WE'RE NOT LISTENED TO.

AND, OF COURSE, WHEN I WRITE ABOUT IT, NOT ONLY DO I WRITE ABOUT THE VERY INTIMATE INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCES THAT IT CAUSES US TO HAVE IN INSTITUTIONS, BUT ALSO THE INTIMATE EXPERIENCES, AND HOW THAT RELATES TO MORE STRUCTURAL EXPERIENCES.

I THINK SOMETIMES YOU CAN THINK BACK, I DON'T WRITE ABOUT IT SPECIFICALLY IN THE BOOK, BUT I THINK DURING COVID, HER NAME WAS Dr. MOORE, AND SHE DIED OF COVID IN A HOSPITAL, BUT SHE WAS A PHYSICIAN, AND SHE WAS CONSTANTLY TRYING TO TELL THE DOCTORS, LOOK, THIS IS WHAT'S WRONG WITH ME, THIS IS WHAT I NEED IN ORDER FOR YOU O HELP ME AND THEY DIDN'T DO IT.

AND SHE DIED.

OF COVID.

AND, SO, I USE THAT AS AN EXAMPLE.

BUT IF YOU THINK OF ALL THE DISPARITIES THAT AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN EXPERIENCE IN TERMS OF THEIR HEALTH, IN TERMS OF THEIR EMPLOYMENT, THEIR LIFE EXPECTANCY, IT ALL CONNECTS WITH THIS NOTION OF POWER AND VOICE AND WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE LISTENED TO.

SO I REALLY LIKE HOW YOU ASKED THAT QUESTION, BECAUSE YOU CAN TALK ABOUT IT LITERALLY IN TERMS OF, DO PEOPLE LISTEN TO US WHEN WE SPEAK OR IN THE SAME SENSE, ARE WE ACTIVELY ALLOWED TO PARTICIPATE AND CONTRIBUTE IN THIS PROCESS OF DEMOCRACY, SO THAT WE CAN, WHAT, BE FULL AND EQUAL PARTS OF SOCIETY AND INSTITUTIONS IN OUR LIVES.

>> Cathy: I WAS THINKING, YOU KNOW, THE GREAT W.E.B.

DUBOIS, FRAME, THE DUALITY OF BEING BLACK AND AMERICAN IS A TWONESS, IS THERE A THREENESS, THEN, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BLACK WOMEN?

>> RIGHT.

TO BE BLACK AND TO E A WOMAN, ABSOLUTELY.

AND THEN I WOULD REFER TO O HURSTON OR ALICE WALKER, AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE A WOMAN HOW DOES THAT INTERSECTIONALITY IMPACT THE EXPERIENCES THAT YOU'VE HAD, RIGHT?

AND THAT'S NOTHING NEW, RIGHT?

PROFESSOR CRENSHAW TALKS ABOUT INTERSECTIONALITY AND, OF COURSE, HOW WE DEFINE IT, IF YOU DON'T GET TO EE WOMEN AS NOT ONLY BLACK WOMEN, AS BEING BLACK AND WOMEN, WE'RE INVISIBLE, AND IF YOU CAN'T SEE SOMETHING, WHAT, YOU CAN'T FIX IT, YOU CAN'T ACKNOWLEDGE IT, YOU CAN'T EXIST.

AND IN SOME WAYS, I HOPE THAT'S WHAT I ATTEMPT TO WRITE ABOUT.

OF COURSE, WITH A LITTLE HUMOR, RIGHT?

BECAUSE THAT'S JUST MY WAY.

BUT ALSO IN A WAY TO GIVE AN EXPERIENCE, AND I WANT TO BE CAREFUL, I'M ONLY ONE PERSON, BECAUSE NO IDENTITY IS THE SAME.

SO I TALK ABOUT MY EXPERIENCES AS AN INDIVIDUAL WITH THE HOPES THAT I CAN INSPIRE OTHER PEOPLE TO TALK ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES AND HOPEFULLY THROUGH COMPASSION AND EMPATHY AND MAYBE MIXING THAT WITH HISTORY, WE CAN FIND A WAY TO CONTINUE THESE CONVERSATIONS IN ORDER TO IMPACT CHANGE.

>> Eric: YOU HAVE A DISTINGUISHED CAREER, YOUR KIDS ARE ON THE RIGHT PATH, YOU'VE HAD THE SLINGS AND ARROWS OF RACISM, YOU'VE COME OUT THE OTHER END, OBVIOUSLY, VERY WELL.

WHAT'S THE SECRET TO COPING WITH THAT STUFF?

>> WELL, I WON'T SAY I'VE COME OUT ON THE OTHER END, BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S WHY TRYING TO SURVIVE, SO, LET ME JUST SAY -- >> Eric: STILL COMP TEMPERATURE -- CONTEMPORARY, YOU'RE SAYING.

>> I THINK I WRITE ABOUT MY MOTHER DYING AT 49, I'M 54.

I KNOW IT'S A SELFISH THING TO ASK THAT I GROW OLD WITH MY KIDS, SO I'LL HOLD THAT SPACE THERE.

I WANT TO SAY THE ONE REASON WHY I'M SITTING AT THIS TABLE IS BECAUSE OF MY BLACK MOTHER, WHO RAISED E, WHO SACRIFICED FOR ME, AND MY SIBLINGS, AND PRETTY MUCH, YOU KNOW, TOLD US THAT THE ONE THING THAT YOU CAN DO THAT SOMEONE CAN NEVER TAKE AWAY FROM YOU IS YOUR EDUCATION.

AND IN A WAY THAT SAVED US, SO I'LL SAY, I'M TRYING, AND I'M ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT I BELIEVE THAT IF I'M ABLE TO COME THROUGH SOMETHING, THEN MY JOB IS TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO HELP OTHER PEOPLE.

SO I HOPE THAT'S WHAT I'M DOING.

BUT IN SOME SENSE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL A PART OF SUCCESS AND FAILURE AND I THINK THAT'S A PART OF LIFE, AND I'M JUST LIVIN' IT AND TRYING TO DO MY BEST TO, WHAT, CREATE ART BUT ALSO TO TEACH AND TO HELP AND TO LIVE.

AND HOPEFULLY LEAF AN ARTIFACT, RIGHT -- LEAVE AN ARTIFACT?

SO UNFORTUNATELY WHEN I DO PASS, DID I DO MY WORK?

DID I CONTRIBUTE POSITIVELY TO THE DISCOURSE THAT CAN HELP OTHER PEOPLE?

>> Cathy: I THINK YOU DID.

>> AND THAT'S MY HOPE.

>> Cathy: HOW ARE YOU HELPING YOUR STUDENTS IN THE CLASSROOM FIND THEIR VOICE?

>> OH, MY GOODNESS, I ALWAYS FEEL LIKE THEY HELP ME, RIGHT?

THEY'RE THE SMARTEST PEOPLE IN THE ROOM.

I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING I CAN DO IS TO TRY TO SEE THEM AND RESPECT THEM AND ACKNOWLEDGE WHO THEY ARE.

AND IT'S MY JOB TO HOLD UP A MIRROR, TO SAY TO YOU, THAT NO MATTER WHAT EXPERIENCE YOU'VE HAD, NO MATTER WHAT YOU'VE DONE, YOU ARE STILL WORTHY OF EDUCATION, YOU ARE STILL WORTHY OF SUCCESS.

AND THAT'S MY GOAL, RIGHT?

SO I FEEL IT'S RECIPROCAL, RIGHT?

THEY TEACH ME, I TEACH THEM, AND WE LEARN TOGETHER.

>> Eric: TRAVELING WITHOUT MOVING, AT YOUR FAVORITE BOOKSTORE OR ONLINE, I ASSUME?

>> YES.

>> Eric: GOOD LUCK WITH IT.

IT'S VERY COMPELLING READING.

>> WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH F