Laura: DARYL VIGIL, THANKS FOR JOINING ME.

THE WORK THAT YOU DO AS PART OF THE 10 TRIBES PARTNERS AND ALSO THE WATER AND TRIBES INITIATIVE IS FOCUSED ON MAKING SURE TRIBES ARE PART OF DEVELOPING THE NEXT GUIDELINES FOR THE COLORADO RIVER.

WERE TRIBES NOT A PART OF THOSE ORIGINAL NEGOTIATIONS IN THE PAST?

Daryl: GOOD MORNING, LAURA.

NO, THEY WEREN'T.

AND, THAT IS WHY IT HAS BECOME EVEN MORE IMPORTANT THAT WE START TO CREATE THE FOUNDATION OF, YOU KNOW, WHY IT IS IMPORTANT FOR TRIBES TO BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE OR TO MAKE THE CHOICE TO BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE, BE ABLE TO BUILD A CAPACITY TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

THERE IS A LOT OF DIFFERENT REASONS ON WHY, YOU KNOW, IT IS IMPORTANT.

10 TRIBES PARTNERSHIP OF THE COLORADO RIVER ALONE HAS CLOSE TO 2.9 MILLION-ACRE FEET OF WATER RIGHTS IN THE COLORADO RIVER BASIN.

AND THOSE 10 TRIBES ARE ON THE MAINSTREAM OR ITS TRIBUTARIES AND THE REASON THAT IS IMPORTANT IS BECAUSE THAT IS ABOUT 20 TO 25% OF THE VOLUME OF THE COLORADO RIVER.

AND STARTING IN 2007 WHEN THE OPERATING GUIDELINES WERE DEVELOPED FOR THE COLORADO RIVER, YOU KNOW, THERE WASN'T TRIBAL ENGAGEMENT.

THERE WASN'T TRIBAL INVOLVEMENT IN THAT PROCESS AT ALL.

AND SO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE 2009 BASIN STUDY OF THE COLORADO RIVER BASIN SUPPLY-DEMAND STUDY, IT WAS A PARTNERSHIP, CREATED OUT OF A PARTNERSHIP WITH THE SEVEN BASIN STATES AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THROUGH BUREAU OF RECLAMATION.

AND, AGAIN, KNOWING ALL THOSE FACTS IN TERMS OF THE AMOUNTS AND VOLUMES OF TRIBAL WATER AND THE FACT THAT SOME OF IT -- A LOT HAD BEEN UNDEVELOPED, IN THAT PARTICULAR STUDY THAT STARTED IN 2009, TRIBES WERE NOT INVITED TO PARTICIPATE IN THAT PARTICULAR CONVERSATION EITHER.

AND SO OUT OF THAT, YOU KNOW, IT REALLY WAS AN AWAKENING FOR TRIBES IN THE PARTNERSHIP.

Laura: THERE IS SO MANY CHALLENGES IN THE COLORADO RIVER BASIN RIGHT NOW.

YOU KNOW, CLIMATE CHANGE ALONE IS A HUGE PROBLEM.

I AM WONDERING WHAT OPPORTUNITIES TRIBES BRING TO THE CONVERSATION.

Daryl: IT GOES BACK TO THAT THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF SUSTAINABLE LIVING.

FROM WHAT I WAS TAUGHT FROM MY GRANDPARENTS IN JEMEZ AND ZIA, IN PARTICULAR, YOU KNOW, IS HOW WE FIT INTO OUR RELIANCE AND OUR GRATITUDE FOR LIFE AND HOW WE FIT INTO IT AND OUR REVERENCE FOR ALL LIVING CREATURES, AND, SO, I THINK WHEN WE ARE MOVING FORWARD WITH THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION, YOU KNOW, THOSE THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF SUSTAINABLE LIVING AND WHAT WE LEARNED FROM IT REALLY IGNITES THE BROADER CONVERSATION OF WHO WE ARE AS HUMAN BEINGS.

YOU KNOW, COLLECTIVELY HOW WE WANT TO LIVE TOGETHER AND HOW WE WANT TO BE TOGETHER AND HOW WE SEE OURSELVES FITTING INTO THE WORLD.

I THINK THOSE ARE GREAT CONVERSATIONS TO BE HAD RIGHT NOW.

Laura: THE WAY THAT THE COLORADO RIVER BASIN IS MANAGED IS THERE IS THE COMPACT AND THEN THERE IS LIKE ESSENTIALLY THESE AMENDMENTS AND CHANGES AND GUIDELINES.

IS THE COMPACT ITSELF SET IN STONE?

Daryl: I DON'T THINK SO.

IT IS A LAW.

YOU KNOW, WHEN I GOT INVOLVED WITH THIS PROCESS 10 YEARS AGO, IT WAS FUNNY, BECAUSE I WAS LIKE, SO WE HAVE ALL THESE PROBLEMS IN THE BASIN AND WHY DON'T WE JUST CHANGE THE LAW OF THE RIVER?

YOU KNOW, I COULD HAVE BEEN STRUNG UP FOR PROBABLY SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW.

I STILL SAY THAT TODAY.

Laura: THANK YOU SO MUCH, DARYL VIGIL, FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

I APPRECIATE IT.

Daryl: YOU ARE WELCOME.

Laura: REPRESENTATIVE LENTE, WELCOME.

Lente: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

Laura: I SPOKE WITH DARYL VIGIL ABOUT THE COLORADO RIVER AND THE NEED TO INCLUDE THE 29 TRIBES WHEN DEVELOPING THE GUIDELINES FOR THE RIVER, FOR THE NEXT GUIDELINES FOR THE RIVER.

I AM CURIOUS WHEN IT COMES TO THE RIO GRANDE COMPACT, HOW ARE PUEBLO WATER RIGHTS INCORPORATED AND WHAT INFLUENCE DID THE PUEBLOS HAVE DURING THE EARLY PART OF THE 20TH CENTURY WHEN THAT COMPACT WAS BEING NEGOTIATED?

Lente: BACK IN THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY, MANY OF THE PUEBLOS IN THE RIO GRANDE VALLEY OR RIO GRANDE VALLEY COMPLETELY, THEY DIDN'T HAVE MUCH OF A POLITICAL CLOUT OR MUCH CLOUT AT ALL IN REGARDS TO BEING ABLE TO ASSERT ANY TYPE OF RIGHT IN REGARDS TO A WATER RIGHT.

SO, MANY OF THEM, IN MY MIND AND FROM WHAT I UNDERSTOOD, IS THAT MANY OF THEM DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE NOTION OF BEING ABLE TO OWN OR TAKE CLAIM TO OWN SOMETHING LIKE WATER.

SO, FOR THEM TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WE ARE GOING TO CLAIM X AMOUNT OF ACRE FEET OR X AMOUNT OF WATER FOR OUR PURPOSES NOW AND INTO THE FUTURE, FOR THEM WAS FOREIGN, ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THE LANGUAGE BARRIERS RELATED TO MY PUEBLO, FOR INSTANCE, FROM TEWA TO ENGLISH, WHETHER IT IS SPOKEN OR WRITTEN.

BACK THEN, YOU KNOW, TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THAT MUCH, WE ARE ONLY TALKING ABOUT A CENTURY AGO BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THINK ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO AND HOW MUCH THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

AND, SO, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, I WOULD IMAGINE THAT THEIR CLAIM IN TERMS OF THEIR PARTICIPATION TO THE COMPACT MIGHT HAVE BEEN RATHER LIMITED.

Laura: YOU, YOURSELF, ARE AN IRRIGATOR, A WATER RIGHTS EXPERT, A LEGISLATOR, AND I AM CURIOUS WHAT YOU THINK IF TRIBES WERE BROUGHT IN EARLY AND IF THEY WERE TREATED LIKE THE SOVEREIGN NATIONS THAT THEY ARE, HOW FACING SOME OF OUR REALLY BIG CHALLENGES THAT WE FACE IN NEW MEXICO, HOW THINGS COULD LOOK DIFFERENT IN A DECADE OR A CENTURY?

Lente: HISTORY HAS PROVEN ITSELF THAT THE PUEBLOS HAVE BEEN IN THE MIDDLE RIO GRANDE VALLEY IN NEW MEXICO FOR CENTURIES AND THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PLAY A PART IN THE RESILIENCE OF HOW THEY HAVE LIVED THEIR LIVES AS AGRICULTURISTS, AS FOLKS THAT HAVE TAKEN CARE OF LAND AND THE LAND HAS TAKEN CARE OF THEM.

IF THEY CAN LEND THEMSELVES INTO, FOR INSTANCE, IF THEY CAN LEND THEMSELVES TO ALLOWING SOMEONE LIKE ME, NOT TO SAY I WANT TO BE A PART OF THAT RIGHT NOW, BUT IF THEY ALLOWED SOMEONE LIKE ME OR MY COUNTERPARTS IN ANY ONE OF THE VILLAGES TO BE A PART OF THAT DISCUSSION, AND THAT PART OF THAT DISCUSSION CAN THEN BE SOMEONE LIKE A PUEBLO PERSON FROM A COCHITI PUEBLO, SANTA DOMINGO, WHEREVER, SAYING, WELL, MY GRANDFATHER OR MY GRANDMOTHER OR MY FOREFATHERS TALKED ABOUT THIS BEING THE WAY THINGS HAD BEEN DONE IN THE PAST.

AND IF WE CAN LEND OURSELVES TO LEARN FROM PAST PRACTICES, I THINK THAT COULD BE A GREAT START.

THAT COULD BE A GREAT COLLABORATION MESSAGE BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES, FOR INSTANCE, OR THE MANY PARTIES.

BUT AS WE MOVE FORWARD, I MEAN, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT TO BE ABLE TO BE A PART OF THE PROCESS, BECAUSE, NOT ONLY DO WE HAVE THAT HISTORICAL IDENTITY AND PLACE HERE IN THE MIDDLE RIO GRANDE VALLEY, BUT ALSO NOW WITH THAT PRIOR WATER RIGHTS AND SENIOR WATER RIGHTS ASSOCIATED WITH THE TRIBES, WE CANNOT HAVE PEOPLE NEGOTIATING AND USING THOSE SENIOR WATER RIGHTS AS BARGAINING CHIPS THAT THEY DON'T EVEN OWN THAT THE TRIBE HAS AND HAS TO PROTECT.

Laura: REPRESENTATIVE LENTE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

Lente: THANK YOU, APPRECIATE IT.