used breathing device was the subject of# a safety recall.

But as Ali Rogin reports,## it turns out the replacement devices# might also pose dangerous problems.

ALI ROGIN: For millions of Americans with# breathing conditions like sleep apnea,## CPAP machines have proven to be life saving# devices.

But when the same device potentially life threatening,# the consequences can be deadly.

Back in October, we brought you the story# of a joint investigation published by the## Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and ProPublica# detailing serious issues with some models## of Philips breathing machines,# including CPAP, and respirators.

The machines were recalled in 2021,# but not before a number of users of## the machines reported developing new# illnesses, including cancer and asthma.

Now, new reporting on the replacement machines# that Philips sent out to those customers## found that the new machines are emitting# elevated levels of dangerous chemicals,## including formaldehyde a known carcinogen.

Joining us now is Debbie Cenziper, one of# the leaders of the Pro Post-Gazette investigation.

Debbie,# thank you so much for joining us.

First of all, how did you find out about these# problems the new Phillip DEBBIE CENZIPER, ProPublica: Yeah.

So ProPublica# and the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette has been working## more than a year on this investigation.

And we've# developed a number of so test results that had not been made public,# as well as internal records that showed that## scientists working for the company were growing# increasingly alarmed about the results on these## new machines that showed that the machines# were releasing chemicals like formaldehyde.

ALI ROGIN: And were the new# problems similar to the ones## that the old machines were experiencing?# Or was this just a new set of problems## that developed independent of the# first model?

Yes, great question.

So the recalled machines had an industrial# foam fitted inside the machines that was## found to break down and heat and humidity,# and release particles as well as fumes into## the lungs of patients who, you know, strapped# these machines onto their noses and mouths.

And so after the recall, Philips changed# out that foam with a different kind of## foam.

This one made of silicone, the new# foam is not found to break down.

But the## test results show that it is releasing# chemicals.

And that is what is causing## a concerns not just by scientists# in the company, but also at the FDA.

ALI ROGIN: How widespread has this# problem been determined to be?

DEBBIE CENZIPER: Essentially every replacement# machine and refurbished machines s Philips, after the recall, has this new foam# in it.

So it's pretty widespread?

I mean,## millions of machines have been replaced not# only in the United States, but around the world.

ALI ROGIN: And what does Philips# say about these new machines?

DEBBIE CENZIPER: Philips says these machines# are safe.

And that the testi these machines do not admit excessive levels of# dangerous chemicals.

The FDA is asking for more## testing, and will not weigh in on whether# or not these machines pose a risk until## then.

These machines, as you noted in your# intro are life saving.

They're important.

And so I think what the FDA did is they weighed# the benefits and the risks and they said,## continue to use these machines until# we get more test results.

The issue is## it's been more than two years, which# leaves people kind of caught in the## middle unsure what to do about this.# And that is the crux of the problem.

ALI ROGIN: And why has there been such# a variation in the chemical levels## that were found in independent testing# versus what Philips testin DEBBIE CENZIPER: Right.

So Philips solicited the# help have independent testing labs to figure out## if this foam was emitting high levels of chemicals# like formaldehyde, and some of those reports,## and we have copies show that there were elevated# levels, and some show not elevated levels.

And so when we speak to toxicologists,# their fear is that if there are millions## of machines out there with this foam,# and some tests show high levels,## and some tests don't, we don't know# what people are being exposed to.

ALI ROGIN: What should people do if they suspect# that their replacement machine is also faulty?

DEBBIE CENZIPER: We can't say the machines# are unsafe, we can't.

Nobody can at this## point.

What we can say is what we know, which# is that these machines are emitti in some cases that are concerning levels# to toxicologists.

But people didn't know## that.

And so we felt as journalists, it# was our job to give people the facts so## that they could go to their doctors and ask# what to do.

We're not medical experts, right.

But at least let people have all the# facts because people didn't know,## you know, originally about the problems with# the original machines until that recall.

And## so that same pattern kind of happened again,# and we wanted to put the word out there.

ALI ROGIN: We know that there was already# litigation underway, that pertains to the## original defective machines.

What is the status# of that?

And is there litigation ongoing in an other places besides Pennsylvania,# where much of that has taken place?

DEBBIE CENZIPER: All of the lawsuits have# been consolidated into one big ongoing case## out of federal court and Western PA. One of the# cases was settled by Phillips in the plaintiffs,## but there are several large ongoing cases that# are still playing out, including a personal injury## case.

And there are hundreds of plaintiffs# involved in that in that ongoing litigation.

ALI ROGIN: Debbie Cenziper with ProPublica,# thank you so much for your time.

ALI ROGIN: Thank you for having me.

JOHN YANG: In a statement to PBS test of the silicone foam and repaired and# replacement sheet machines found no safety## issues.

Spokesperson also said the levels of# formaldehyde found in all Philips machines with## silicone foam were far below safety limits# set by the world authorization and the FDA