>>> NOW, IT IS NO SURPRISE THAT ALL EYES ARE ON THE U.S., AS JOE BIDEN AND DONALD TRUMP VIE FOR THE PRESIDENCY, AND THE MOST INFLUENTIAL JOB IN THE WORLD.

BUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN LEADERS LEAVE THE WHITE HOUSE?

IN HI NEWS BOOK, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL JARED COHEN TAKES A LOOK, A CLOSE LOOK, AT SEVEN PAST U.S. PRESIDENTS AND THE PATHS THEY TOOK AFTERWARDS.

AND HE'S JOINING WALTER ISAACSON.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

AND JARED COHEN, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> IT'S GOOD TO BE HERE, WALTER.

>> YOU KNOW, IN 1797, WHEN GEORGE WASHINGTON LEAVES OFFICE, I WAS LOOKING AT YOUR BOOK "LIFE AFTER POWER" AND I REALIZE THAT THE WORLD WASN'T REALLY -- DIDN'T HAVE MANY EXAMPLES OF WHAT HAPPENS, I MEAN, NAPOLEON, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE LIFE AFTER POWER SYNDROME.

TELL ME, WHY DID YOU START WRITING THIS BOOK AND WHAT ARE WE LOOKING FOR WHEN WE LOOK ABOUT LIFE AFTER POWER?

>> LOOK, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN INTERESTED IN THIS ILLUSIVE QUESTION OF, WHAT DO WE DO NEXT?

AND IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHERE WE OFTEN LOOK FOR CASE STUDIES TO INFORM OUR OWN TRANSITIONS, WHOEVER WE ARE, AND WHATEVER WE DO, IT'S USUALLY BUSINESS EXECUTIVES, AND IT'S ATHLETES.

WE'VE NEVER LOOKED AT THE MOST DRAMATIC RETIREMENT IN THE WORLD, WHERE YOU HAVE THE BIGGEST FALL FROM POWER TO JUST BEING AN ORDINARY CIVILIAN, WHICH IS THE PRESIDENCY OF THE UNITED STATES.

AND AT A TIME WHEN WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT OUR DEMOCRACY, IT'S IMPORTANT TO REFLECT EVEN BEFORE GEORGE WASHINGTON, THE FOUNDING FATHERS WERE VERY WORRIED ABOUT THIS QUESTION OF WHAT TO DO WITH EX-PRESIDENTS, BECAUSE THEY HADN'T REALLY EXPERIENCED THE PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER.

SO, IT IS AMUSING.

ALEXANDER HAMILTON IN THE FEDERALIST PAPERS, HE ASKED THE QUESTION, DOES IT PROMOTE THE STABILITY OF THE REPUBLICAN TO HAVE HALF A DOZEN OR SO MEN WHO HAVE BEEN ELEVATED TO THE PRESIDENCY BASICALLY WANDERING AROUND US LIKE DISCONTENTED GHOSTS?

AND MORE THAN 200-PLUS YEARS LATER, WE FINALLY GET AN ANSWER TO HAMILTON'S QUESTION, WHICH IS, EX-PRESIDENTS CAN EITHER BE A TREMENDOUS PARTNER TO THEIR SUCCESSOR OR THEIR MOST FORMIDABLE ADVERSARY.

>> WELL, THE PERSON WHO SORT OF SETS THE TONE RIGHT OFF IS GEORGE WASHINGTON BY DOING THE PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER, STEPPING DOWN.

HOW IMPORTANT WAS THAT?

>> THE GEORGE WASHINGTON PRECEDENT OF TWO TERMS IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISIONS THAT SETS THIS, YOU KNOW, KIND OF IDEA THAT EX-PRESIDENTS ARE MEANT TO KIND OF LEAVE POWER AND STAY OUT OF POWER.

WHAT'S INTERESTING IS THAT IT DOESN'T GET CODIFIED UNTIL FDR IS ELECTED FOUR TIMES WITH THE 22nd AMENDMENT.

SO, JUST BECAUSE WASHINGTON SET THE PRECEDENT DOESN'T MEAN IT WAS FORMALLY CODIFIED AS LAW.

AND SO, WE KIND OF WINGED THIS FROM GEORGE WASHINGTON UNTIL IT WAS -- THE CONSTITUTION WAS AMENDED AND IT PRETTY MUCH HELD.

IT'S INTERESTING, WE NOW FIND OURSELVES IN 2024 IN THE ONLY TIME OTHER THAN 1892 WHERE WE ARE LIKELY TO HAVE A REMATCH BETWEEN TWO PRESIDENTS OF THE UNITED STATES.

THE ONLY OTHER TIME THAT IT HAPPENED WAS 1892 WHEN GROVER CLEVELAND CAME BACK TO CHALLENGE BENJAMIN HARRISON.

SO, IT GIVES YOU A SENSE OF JUST HOW OFFSCRIPT WE'VE GONE FROM OUR POLITICAL EVOLUTION.

>> IN SOME WAYS, THE PRECEDENT FOR EX-PRESIDENTS, THE MODEL WAS SET BY THOMAS JEFFERSON.

VERY INTERESTING CHAPTER IN YOUR BOOK.

TELL ME ABOUT WHY WHAT HE DID AFTER POWER WAS SO IMPORTANT, AND SO REFLECTIVE THE NOTION OF PRINCIPLE BEING WHAT YOU DO WHEN YOU DO A NEXT CHAPTER.

>> SO, ONE CAN OF THE THINGS I ARGUE IN THE BOOK IS THAT THOMAS JEFFERSON WAS THE FIRST FORMER PRESIDENT TO MAKE SOMETHING OF HIS POST-PRESIDENTIAL YEARS.

AND EACH CHAPTER LOOKS AT A DIFFERENT EX-PRESIDENT AND THE SPECIFIC MODEL THAT THEY FOLLOWED, AND WHAT I DESCRIBE THOMAS JEFFERSON AS, HE'S THE QUINTESSENTIAL SERIAL ENTREPRENEUR, ORRER IS Y'ALL FOUNDER.

HE HAS THREE THINGS ETCHED ON HIS EPITAPH THAT HE AUTHORED.

TWO OF WHICH HAPPENED BEFORE HE WAS PRESIDENT, INCLUDING THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE AND ONCE THAT HE ACCOMPLISHED AT 82 YEARS OLD, THE FATHER AND FOUNDER OF THE UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA.

THOMAS JEFFERSON NEVER WANTED TO BE PRESIDENT, HE TRIED TO RETIRE THREE TIMES, BUT AS A COFOUNDER OF THE REPUBLIC, HE HAD A FOUNDER'S OBLIGATION TO CONTINUE TO SERVE IN THE REPUBLIC.

AND ALL THAT DID WAS MAKE HIM LOSE TIME, AND GET CLOSER TO MORTALITY.

HE BELIEVED VERY STRONGLY THAT THE REPUBLIC THAT THEY HAD FOUNDED WAS IMPERFECT.

AND IF YOU DIDN'T CREATE A PROPER INSTITUTION, AN ARTS AND SCIENCES INSTITUTION TO TRAIN THE NEXT GENERATION, YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO PASS THE TORCH TO A NEW CADRE OF REVOLUTIONARY-MINDED PEOPLE THAT WOULD FIX AND PERFECT THE MISTAKES THAT THEY MADE IN THE CONSTITUTION.

AND SO, UVA WAS MEANT TO BE THAT UNIVERSITY, AND POOR THOMAS JEFFERSON, WHEN HE OPENS THE DOORS AT 82 YEARS OLD TO THE UNIVERSITY HE HAD LITERALLY PERSONALLY ARCHITECTED, YOU KNOW, SIX MONTHS IN, YOU HAVE A GROUP OF YOUNG STUDENTS, YOU KNOW, COVERING THEIR FACES WITH MASKS, THROWING BAGS OF URINE, BEATING A PROFESSOR WITH THEIR CANE, AND ALL IT TAKES IS THOMAS JEFFERSON TO CALL A MEETING WITH JEFFERSON, MADISON, AND MONROE, AND FOR HIM TO EXUDE SUCH A STATUS WITH THESE STUDENTS, ONE BY ONE, THEY CONFESSED, AND JEFFERSON REMAINS THE ONLY EX-PRESIDENT TO CREATE AN INSTITUTION THAT'S NOW LASTED MORE THAN 200 YEARS, ALTHOUGH EVERY PRESIDENT WITH THEIR CENTER AND LIBRARY AND INSTITUTION HOPES TO DO THE SAME THING.

>> YOU SAID THAT JEFFERSON'S PRINCIPLES NOW DAYS IN CURRENT LIGHT, SOMEWHAT COMPLEX.

BEING SCRUTINIZED.

AND YET, IN SOME WAYS, THAT'S JEFFERSONIAN TO DO THAT.

>> LOOKS THIS MAY BE A CONTROVERSIAL THING TO SAY.

I THINK THE VERY IDEA THAT -- I THINK JEFFERSON WOULD HAVE FOUND THE VERY IDEA THAT HIS IMPERFECTIONS AND HIS FLAWS WERE CRITICIZED BY LATER GENERATIONS AS THE NORMS EVOLVED, I THINK HE WOULD SORT OF SMIRK AT THAT, SAY, I ACCEPT THAT, AND VIEW THAT AS AN ACCOMPLISHMENT, BECAUSE THAT'S CORE TO MY PRINCIPLES, AND YES, VERY JEFFERSONIAN.

HE HAD A SELF-AWARENESS OF THE IMPERFECTIONS OF HIS OWN LIFE AND WHAT HE AND HIS FELLOW FOUNDERS HAD ACTUALLY ARCHITECTED AT THE DAWN OF THE REPUBLIC, AND HE HAD A LOT OF FAITH AND HOPE THAT THE NEXT GENERATION WOULD FIX THOSE PROBLEMS.

AND THIS IS WHY, YOU KNOW, WHEN HIS BELOVED UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA IS ENGULFED IN A STUDENT RIOT WHERE THEY'RE CHANTING "DOWN WITH UNIVERSITY PROFESSORS," IT'S SO APPALLING TO HIM.

AT 82 YEARS OLD, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF TIME LEFT.

AND HE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT INSTITUTION WOULD SURVIVE LONG ENOUGH THAT HE COULD KIND OF GO OUT GRACEFULLY AND BE REST ASSURED THAT THE NEXT GENERATION WOULD CARRY THE TORCH FORWARD.

>> CONFESS MY FAVORITE POST-PRESIDENCY, AT LEAST FROM DEEP HISTORY, IS, OF COURSE, JOHN QUINCY ADAMS.

TOTALLY AMAZING WHAT HE DOES, INCLUDING, GOING BACK TO THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, BUT MAINLY FIGHTING FOR PARTICULAR PRINCIPLE, AND THAT SETS THE TONE FOR YOUR BOOK, WHICH IS THAT YOUR NEXT CHAPTER HAS TO BE BASED ON PRINCIPLE.

EXPLAIN WHAT JOHN QUINCY ADAMS DID AND WHY HE'S SO IMPORTANT.

>> OUT OF THE SEVEN PRESIDENTS THAT I WROTE ABOUT IN "LIFE AFTER POWER," THE REASON THEY FOUND A GREATER SENSE OF PURPOSE AFTER THE WHITE HOUSE IS THEY HAD A DOGMATIC SENSE OF WHAT THEY WERE PRINCIPLED ABOUT AND THEY DOUBLED DOWN ABOUT THAT IN THE POST-PRESIDENCY, AND PART OF WHAT MADE THEM SUCCESSFUL IN THE CASE OF JOHN QUINCY ADAMS, I CALL THAT CHAPTER THE SECOND ACT, BECAUSE JOHN QUINCY ADAMS PRESIDENCY IS JUST ONE TERM, WAS AN INTERMISSION BETWEEN TWO OF THE GREATEST ACTS IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

THE FIRST ONE, ARCHITECTED FOR HIM TOP DOWN AND HANDED TO HIM BY HIS FAMOUS PARENTS THAT SET HIM ON A PATH TO BEING PRESIDENT.

AND THE SECOND ACT WAS ONE THAT HE INADVERTENTLY FOUND, WHICH WAS, HE WENT ON TO SERVE NINE TERMS IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WHERE IN A MUCH LOWER STATION, HE FOUND A MUCH HIGHER CAUSE, AND BECAME THE MAN WHO MAINSTREAMED WHAT IN THE 1830s AND 1840s WAS A FRINGE ABOLITIONIST MOVEMENT.

HE'S APPOINTED BY GEORGE WASHINGTON TO SERVE IN HIS ADMINISTRATION, AND HE DIES IN 1848 IN HIS NINTH TERM IN THE HOUSE, SERVING ALONGSIDE ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

SO, HE'S THIS LIVING BRIDGE BETWEEN MULTIPLE GENERATIONS, AND HE GOES BACK TO THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES BECAUSE HE'S ALREADY SERVED EVERY OTHER PUBLIC POSITION, INCLUDING IN THE SENATE, SO, HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO BESIDES SERVE.

SO, HE DOES WHAT ANY CONGRESSMAN DOES, YOU KNOW, IN THE EARLY 1830s, WHICH IS, YOU JUST START READING PETITIONS.

AND SOME OF THOSE PETITIONS WERE FROM ABOLITIONISTS.

WHEN HE SAW THE REACTION IN CONGRESS, HE THOUGHT IT AN AFFRONT TO THE RIGHT TO PETITION.

THIS WAS SOMETHING HE WAS SO PASSIONATE ABOUT, THE RIGHT TO FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

THE ANGRIER THE SLAVEOCRACY, THE MORE PETITIONS HE PRESENTED.

HE HAD NOT BEEN AN ABOLITIONIST, AND OVER TIME, HE JUST SORT OF WAKES UP ONE DAY, AND FINDS HIMSELF THE LEADER OF THIS MOVEMENT, AND I BELIEVE THAT THE ABOLITIONIST MOVEMENT WAS ACCELERATED A FULL DECADE, JUST IN TIME FOR ABRAHAM LINCOLN TO JOIN THE HOUSE, BECAUSE OF JOHN QUINCY ADAMS.

>> WE SOMETIMES THINK IT'S ALL ABOUT DAD.

DO YOU THINK IT CAME IN THE FACT THAT HIS FATHER, JOHN ADAMS, THE SECOND PRESIDENT, HAD THAT AS PART OF HIS CORE?

>> NO, I MEAN, I THINK WHAT'S INTERESTING, JOHN QUINCY ADAMS TALKS VERY LITTLE ABOUT SLAVERY BEFORE HE GOES INTO THE HOUSE.

AND SOME OF THAT IS A FUNCTION IN BETWEEN THE MISSOURI COMPROMISE, AND THE TIME THAT JOHN QUINCY ADAMS GOES INTO THE HOUSE IN THE EARLY 1830s, IT'S JUST NOT A HOTLY DEBATED TOPIC, WHICH, AGAIN, IS WHY THE ABOLITIONIST MOVEMENT AROUND THAT TIME IS MORE FRINGY AND SEEN AS MORE RADICAL.

AND SO, HE -- WE FOUND SLAVERY ABHORRENT, BUT IT WAS NOT A DOMINANT ISSUE.

SO, THIS IS WHAT I FIND SO PRESCRIPTIVE ABOUT JOHN QUINCY ADAMS.

WE ALWAYS ASSUME FOR THAT GREAT SECOND ACT, YOU HAVE TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANTED TO DO.

THOMAS JEFFERSON KNEW HE WANTED TO GO FOUND A GREAT UNIVERSITY.

IT WAS THE THIRD VOLUME IN HIS LIFE TRILOGY.

JOHN QUINCY ADAMS KNEW WHAT HE WAS PRINCIPLED ABOUT, AND HE SUBMITTED HIMSELF TO THOSE PRINCIPLES, AND THE CAUSE FOUND HIM, RATHER THAN HIM FINDING THE CAUSE.

>> ONE OF THE POST-PRESIDENCIES I HAVE TROUBLE GETTING MY HEAD AROUND AND ASSESSING, OF COURSE, IS HERBERT HOOVER.

I DIDN'T KNOW THIS, I READ IN HIS BOOK ABOUT HOW IN 1938, HE GOES AND VISITS HITLER IN GERMANY.

YET, HE DOES OTHER THINGS THAT ARE VERY USEFUL.

HOW DID HE END UP BECOMING SO MUCH, I GUESS, MORE CONSERVATIVE AFTER HE LEAVES OFFICE, AND EVEN SETTING THE GROUND FOR APPEASEMENT, BEFORE WORLD WAR II?

>> WELL, LOOK, SOME OF IT IS, HE WAS A QUAKER AT HEART, SO, HE SORT OF LOATHED THE IDEA OF WAR.

YOU KNOW, THE BOOK TELLS THE STORY OF HERBERT HOOVER, A MAN WHO LIVED TO BE 90 YEARS OLD AND BASICALLY DEFINED BY 3 1/2 YEARS OF HIS LIFE BECAUSE OF THE GREAT DEPRESSION.

PEOPLE FORGET THAT HERBERT HOOVER, BEFORE HE BECAME PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, WAS KNOWN AS THE GREAT HUMANITARIAN.

HE WAS THE MAN WHO FED THE WORLD AFTER WORLD WAR I, HE WAS THE MAN THAT LED RELIEF EFFORTS AFTER THE GREAT MISSISSIPPI FLOOD OF 1927, WHICH AFFECTED MOST OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN POPULATIONS.

HE WAS AN ORPHAN, WHO BECAME A SELF-MADE MILLIONAIRE.

HE WAS KNOWN AS A GREAT BUSINESS EXECUTIVE.

AND HE WALTZES INTO THE WHITE HOUSE IN 1928 WITH A SWEEPING ELECTORAL VICTORY, AND HE HAD BEEN COURTED BY DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ALIKE, SO, HE WAS KIND OF A BIPARTISAN FIGURE.

AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN THE GREAT DEPRESSION HAPPENS AND HE LOSES HIS BID FOR RE-ELECTION IN 1932, HE LOSES ALL THAT WHICH HE HAD GAINED IN HIS LIFE.

AND, YOU KNOW, FEELS NO REGRET OVER HIS POLICIES OVER THE GREAT DEPRESSION, YOU KNOW, HE BELIEVES THAT FDR IS ESSENTIALLY MANIPULATED AND DUPED, YOU KNOW, THE COUNTRY, INTO THIS IDEA OF COLLECTIVISM, AND IT BREAKS THE ENTREPRENEURIAL SPIRIT.

SO, HE'S IN THIS SELF-IMPOSED POLITICAL EXILE, YOU KNOW, DURING THIS SORT OF 12 YEARS OF FDR'S PRESIDENCY, AND HE TRIES TO BE A GREAT HUMANITARIAN AGAIN, GO TO EUROPE TO SORT OF STOP, YOU KNOW, THE TIDE OF WAR, HE DOESN'T INTEND TO MEET HITLER, BUT IT -- EUROPE IS THE ONE PLACE, YOU KNOW, IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, WHERE HE GOES AND STREETS ARE NAMED AFTER HIM, AND HE'S POPULAR, BECAUSE HE FED THEM AFTER STARVATION, YOU KNOW, FOLLOWING WORLD WAR I.

SO, HE GOES TO GERMANY TO MEET WITH, YOU KNOW, NGOs AND THE LIKE AND HE GETS SUMMONED BY HITLER.

AND BECOMES THE ONLY PRESIDENT AND THE ONLY AMERICAN OTHER THAN THE AMBASSADOR THAT IS THERE WITH HIM, TO MEET ADOLF HITLER AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME.

AND HE COMES BACK TO THE U.S. AND, YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT DOESN'T WANT TO READ OUT, HE DOESN'T BRIEF ANYBODY, WAS NEVER SUMMONED TO WASHINGTON, AND JUST SINGLE DIGIT DAYS LATER, ANSWER SLUSH HAPPENS.

WHEN HARRY TRUMAN BECOMES PRESIDENT, THERE WAS ONLY ONE MAN IN THE WORLD, AS THEY ARE STARING THE END OF WORLD WAR II IN THE FACE, WHO KNEW WHAT WAS LIKE TO BE PRESIDENT, KNEW HOW TO FEED THE WORLD, SO, HE RESURRECTS HERBERT HOOVER.

>> JIMMY CARTER, I THINK, HAS HAD THE LONGEST POST-PRESIDENCY, AND CERTAINLY HE'S HELPED REDEFINE THE IDEA OF SERVICE IN A POST-PRESIDENCY.

WHAT LESSONS DID YOU DRAW FROM HIM?

>> SO, IF HERBERT HOOVER WAS A STORY OF RECOVERY, AND GETTING BACK THE SORT OF -- THE PLATFORM THAT YOU ONCE HAD, JIMMY CARTER WAS A DIFFERENT VERSION OF THAT, BECAUSE HE, TOO, LEFT OFFICE IN 1981 DEEPLY UNPOPULAR.

HE MADE A DECISION THAT HERBERT HOOVER DID NOT MAKE, WHICH WAS, YOU KNOW, THE MOMENT HE GOT OUT OF OFFICE, HE KNEW HE WASN'T GOING TO MAKE ANOTHER RUN AT THE PRESIDENCY, AND SO, AS HE BEGAN WHAT HE DESCRIBED AS HIS INVOLUNTARY RETIREMENT, YOU KNOW, HE WAS A MAN COMMANDED BY DEEP FAITH, INCREDIBLY PRINCIPLED ABOUT THIS IDEA THAT MY FAITH COMMANDS ME TO DO WHATEVER I CAN FOR AS LONG AS I CAN, WHENEVERI CAN.

UNSHACKLED FROM THE PRESIDENCY, HE DECIDED TO CREATE THE FORMER PRESIDENCY, AND HE BASICALLY BUILT A POST-PRESIDENTIAL ADMINISTRATION THAT UNLIKE HIS PRESIDENCY WOULD NEVER END.

AND HE WAS THE FIRST FORMER PRESIDENT TO BUILD INFRASTRUCTURE AROUND THIS IDEA OF BEING A FORMER AND MAKE IT A PLATFORM IN AND OF ITSELF, AND HE BECOMES BOTH A GREAT PARTNER TO HIS SUCCESSORS AND A TREMENDOUS NUISANCE TO HIS SUCCESSORS.

SO, THE TWO EXAMPLES OF A NUISANCE ARE WHEN GEORGE H.W.

BUSH IS GETTING READY TO LAUNCH OPERATION DESERT STORM, JIMMY CARTER SECRETLY WRITES TO PERMANENT MEMBERS OF THE SECURITY COUNCIL, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO ADVOCATE THEM GOING AGAINST THE U.S.

POSITION.

THIS WAS, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL, YOU KNOW, U.N. SECURITY COUNCIL MOMENTS OF COLLECTIVE ACTION, NOT REALLY SEEN BEFORE OR AFTER, AND CARTER IS SECRETLY OPPOSING IT.

OR IN 1994, WHEN BILL CLINTON SENDS JIMMY CARTER TO PYONGYANG TO MEET WITH THE LEADER THERE, HE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT CARTER IS CAPABLE OF, AND SO, HE TELLS HIM, YOU'RE A MESSENGER.

YOU'RE NOT AUTHORIZED TO MAKE POLICY.

AND BILL CLINTON TURNS ON CNN AND FINDS JIMMY CARTER ANNOUNCING THAT HE'S NEGOTIATED A NUCLEAR BREAKTHROUGH ON NON-PROLIFERATION WITH THE NORTH KOREANS.

SO, LOOK, JIMMY CARTER, YOU KNOW, REPRESENTS THAT ALEXANDER HAMILTON, YOU KNOW, THE ANSWER TO HAMILTON'S QUESTION OF BEING A FORMIDABLE ADVERSARY OR NUISANCE TO YOUR SUCCESSOR, OR BEING A PARTNER, AND AT 42-PLUS YEARS, HE'S HAD THE LONGEST ACTIVE POST-PRESIDENCY, AND I THINK IT'S ENDED UP BEING INSTRUCTIVE FOR EVERY SUCCESSIVE PRESIDENT THAT'S FOLLOWED.

>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LESSONS AND THE POST-PRESIDENCIES, WHAT DO YOU -- WHAT WOULD YOU HOPE THAT DONALD TRUMP COULD TAKE FROM THAT?

WHAT LESSONS SHOULD HE LEARN FROM YOUR BOOK?

>> LOOK, THE NUMBER ONE LESSON FROM THE BOOK IS, ANYBODY MAKING A TRANSITION, WHETHER IT'S TO RETIREMENT OR A MICROTRANSITION IN YOUR LIFE, THE SOONER YOU FIGURE OUT WHAT YOUR CORE PRINCIPLES ARE, AND LET THOSE PRINCIPLES GUIDE YOU, THE SOONER YOU'RE ABLE TO EXTRICATE YOURSELF FROM EGO AND VANITY AND LUST FOR POWER.

AND SO, I THINK IT'S -- IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT SORT OF DANGEROUS POWER OR, YOU KNOW, DISCONTENTED GHOSTS WANDERING AROUND US, THOSE THAT FEEL LIKE THEY LACK PRINCIPLES, THOSE THAT FEEL LIKE THEY'RE MEANDERING WITHOUT PRINCIPLE, ARE OFTENTIMES THE MOST DANGEROUS PEOPLE TO HAVE AGGREGATED POWER.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK WHAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW IS, YOU KNOW, IN ADDITION TO THIS BEING THE ONLY TIME SINCE 1892 WHERE YOU HAVE A PRESIDENTIAL REMATCH, YOU ALSO HAVE THE TWO OLDEST CANDIDATES IN HISTORY, ECLIPSED ONLY BY THE LAST TIME THESE TWO SAME CANDIDATES RAN AGAINST EACH OTHER FOUR YEARS PRIOR.

AND YOU HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF THE QUESTION, PERHAPS WE'RE IN THIS SITUATION THAT WE'RE IN, WHERE YOU HAVE THE TWO OLDEST CANDIDATES, THEY'RE LESS POPULAR THAN THEY WERE FOUR YEARS AGO, IT'S AN ONLY ONCE REPEATED REMATCH.

MAYBE WE'RE IN THIS SITUATION BECAUSE YOU HAVE TWO PRESIDENTS THAT DON'T WANT TO GIVE UP POWER.

>> JARED COHEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU, WALTER.