former president Donald Trump has been hit with a sweeping indictment facing felony charges for his widespread efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election the 45-page four count indictment accuses Trump of conspiring to defraud the United States describing his actions as a Brazen attempt to cling to power after losing the presidency the indictment alleges Trump and six unnamed co-conspirators engaged in a months-long campaign of Deceit that culminated in the January 6 2021 attack on the U.S Capitol an Insurrection special counsel Jack Smith described as being fueled by lies charges against Trump include conspiracy to defraud the U.S conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding and conspiracy against rights the Trump campaign is calling the charges fake and questioning the timing of the indictment just a year out from the 2024 election the indictment is the largest investigation in the history of the Department of Justice and an unprecedented third for the former president and current GOP front-runner joining me now to break down the historic nature of these charges is John farmer Jr former New Jersey attorney general and director of the Eagleton Institute of politics John it's really good to talk to you I feel like we've been here before and that's because Mr Trump has faced other indictments what's different though about these charges I think what separates this indictment is the gravity of the charges um uh the other indictments You could argue um are they're all serious obviously but they don't go to the heart of a threat to our democracy the way that this one does the business records case those those counts could easily have been charged as misdemeanors um even the classified documents case the government is going to have a tough time ultimately distinguishing Trump's conduct from the conduct of people like David Petraeus and Sandy Berger and John Deutsch who all got misdemeanors for uh in some instances destroying unclassified documents so when you come to this case this indictment um it's very prescriptive it's very specific it's a compelling read all 45 pages and it really goes to the heart of what happened on January 6 and to threaten our American democracy yeah there's sort of a Cadence about it again it's an easy to read document likely done intention so that the public could really digest this what does it specifically say or how does it lay out Trump's involvement in the January 6th insurrection it really goes uh Point by point and incident by incident of all the times that the president was informed by uh by his trusted advisors and others and the people in justice department that the the things he was hearing about election fraud were false and then and then it goes and lays out how despite this knowledge he proceeded to repeat these claims over and over again and to run up to to January 6th and those claims basically energized that crowd to do what it did on January 6th so the the indictment is very specific um about the different instances in which Trump was informed that what he was saying wasn't true and his persistence in saying it anyway yeah there were sort of five basic components of how he looked to you know uh persuade those elected leaders and election officials um find those fake electorates and so on leading up to that day you mentioned the coke conspirators they are unnamed unindited does that surprise you based on what you've read that no one else has been charged no it doesn't surprise me I think what's Happening Here is um and most of them are attorneys by the way and there is a crime fraud exception to the attorney-client privilege which means that if if a communication was made and further instead of a conspiracy an illegal act the attorney-client privilege can be pierced I think that was done deliberately and what's going to happen the next few weeks is they're gonna they're gonna be talking to those conspirators and frankly attempting to get some of them to cooperate with the government and admit the allegations of the indictment and be a cooperating witness so where does the case go from here and does it have the potential to last or play out through the 2024 presidential election well it's certainly going to be designated complex case for for federal speedy trial purposes which means that it could potentially go on that long um I think A lot's going to turn on the judge and the judge in this case and the judges are signed randomly but uh the judge who was assigned this case has been the most severe in sentencing January 6th defendants and has made some cutting remarks about the president in in Prior litigation but despite all of this Trump is still leading in the polls he is still the GOP front-runner if he's re-elected does that give him the ability to wipe clean any criminal convictions that will be an interesting case and certainly will be litigated whether he would have the essentially the power to either pardon himself uh or or dismiss the or have the justice department dismissed the cases against him um uh that will be hotly contested obviously uh the unfortunate part of this of this indictment is the timing of it um Washington Post did a pretty uh intensive investigative piece about uh the inactivity of the justice department in the first year and a half uh they really really did nothing with uh with January 6 other than prosecute the individual January 6th defendants and that wasn't an attempt to sort of go up the chain at all because the chain didn't connect so the unfortunate part of this I think it's a really compelling indictment I think it's smartly done they did not charge him with Insurrection which I think was smart because that would be very hard to prove that's a charge that if is convicted would would bar him from holding office these charges do not uh do not bar him but but the obstruction of Khan Congress count carries a potential 20-year sentence so it's serious but I think it's the timing is unfortunate and and that's gonna uh it's gonna play into the counter narrative which is that this is an attempt uh to subvert democracy by by preventing Trump supporters from voting for him next year and hurting his chances um other than that I think it's a compelling a compelling piece of prosecutorial discretion um and well worth the read by the public yeah and in fact we've already heard that argument from Trump's lawyers all right John farmer Jr director of the Eagleton Institute of politics thank you so much thanks Brianna [Music]