AN ASSAULT ON DEMOCRACY, BUT IS IT CRIMINAL?

BIDEN'S HUNTER PROBLEM AND LABOR ON THE MARCH STAY TUNED, IVORY TOWER IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

I'M JOINED AROUND THE TABLE TONIGHT BY TARA ROSS FROM ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE.

BEN BAUGHMAN FROM GANNON UNIVERSITY, CHAD SPARBER FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY AND RICK FENNER FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS ARRAIGNED IN COURT YESTERDAY-NOT A NEW OCCURRENCE.

BUT THIS CASE IS THE BIG ONE.

IT DEALS WITH A CORE ASPECT OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACY, THE PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER.

HE'S BEING CHARGED WITH ATTEMPTING TO USE GOVERNMENT POWER TO REMAIN IN OFFICE DESPITE BEING VOTED OUT.

AS ONE EDITORIAL PUT IT, IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE A MORE CONSEQUENTIAL CASE AGAINST A FORMER PRESIDENT.

BUT THE CASE IS NOT A SLAM DUNK-CRITICS SUGGEST SPECIAL PROSECUTOR JACK SMITH IS STRETCHING THE LAW AND CRIMINALIZING SPEECH.

CHAD, YOU'VE GOT THE INDICTMENT RIGHT THERE-- NOT CHAD, BEN, YOU HAVE THE INDICTMENT RIGHT THERE, ALL YELLOW TABBED AND THUMBED THROUGH.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> WHAT IS YOUR ACCEPTS OF THIS CASE?

>> CHAD AND I LOOK VERY SIMILAR.

WE GET THAT A LOT.

BUT YEAH, NO, ABSOLUTELY.

THIS OUTLINES QUITE A BIT IN DETAIL, INCLUDING NOTES FROM THE VICE PRESIDENT, WHICH IS NEAR THE END AND NOT MENTIONED BY A LOT OF PEOPLE.

IT SHOWS A COORDINATED AND INFORMED EFFORT TO OBSTRUCT THE CERTIFICATION OF THE ELECTION.

>> SO YOU ARE SUGGESTING THAT... >> THERE IS NO SLAM DUNK CASES.

BUT THIS IS A STRONG CASE AND IT'S SPARSE AT THE MOMENT.

BUT IT ALLUDES TO A LOT MORE INFORMATION THAT'S NOT CURRENTLY INCLUDED IN IT AND I THINK THAT WAS A STRATEGIC APPROACH.

>> THE CHARGES DON'T INCLUDE INCITEMENT OVER THE JANUARY 6 RIOT.

>> NO, BUT THE OBSTRUCTION OF HOURS OF THE CERTIFICATION AND THE TIMELINE LEADING UP TO THAT IS WELL DETAILED IN THIS, INCLUDING MULTIPLE STATES THAT HE DID THAT KNOWINGLY.

>> AND YOU KNOW, SAYING THIS IS ALL SPEECH, YOU KNOW, WHAT TRUMP DID WENT WAY BEYOND SPEECH.

FIRST HE WENT TO THE COURTS, AS WAS HIS RIGHT.

AND HAD THOSE ATTEMPTED TO HAVE THE ELECTION OVERTURNED REJECTED.

AND THEN HE STARTED TO ENGAGE IN BEHAVIORS OF INTIM TIM INTIMIDATION, ENCOURAGE IS OFFICIALS TO FIND VOTES, TO DECERTIFY WHAT WAS A FAIR ELECTION, AND BASICALLY, TO TRY TO DECLARE FRAUD ON HIS BEHALF.

SO TO SAY THAT THIS WAS SIMPLY TRUMP GOING OUT AND SAYING THAT HE THOUGHT HE WON THE ELECTION, IT WENT FAR BEYOND THAT.

>> STILL, DID YOU TELL US IT COME DOWN TO WHAT WAS IN HIS HEAD, WHAT HE WAS THINKING?

IF HE BELIEVED IT?

>> WHY.

>> IT'S HARD TO SAY WHETHER HE DID OR NOT, RIGHT?

>> WELL, I MEAN, DAVID LIONHEART OF "THE NEW YORK TIMES" YESTERDAY HAD A GREAT PIECE SAYING THERE IS NO FEDERAL LAW THAT SPECIFICALLY BARS POLITICIANS FROM ATTEMPTING TO OVERTURN AN ELECTION.

SO INSTEAD HE IS BEING CHARGED WITH CONSPIRACY AND FRAUD WHICH REQUIRES PROVING THAT HE KNEW THAT HE WAS LYING.

AND SO HIS DEFENSE STRATEGY IS BASICALLY GOING TO BE OR AMOUNT TO HE IS A NARCISSIST.

IF YOU TELL A NARCISSIST WHAT HE WANTS TO HEAR, HE IS GOING TO HONESTLY BELIEVE IT.

SO THAT'S EFFECTIVELY WHAT HIS DEFENSE PLAN HAS GOT TO BE.

>> EXCEPT, YOU KNOW, HE WAS SAYING EVEN BEFORE THE ELECTION WAS HELD, YOU KNOW, HE SAID THIS IS GOING TO BE A FAIR ELECTION?

IF I WIN IT IS.

IF I DON'T, IT ISN'T.

THAT, TO ME, SHOWS THAT, INDEED THIS IS ALL ABOUT POWER AND HIS WILLINGNESS TO DO WHATEVER IT IS TO STAY IN POWER.

NOW, AGAIN, HE WAS TOLD BY MANY, MANY PEOPLE, THAT THIS CASE WASN'T VIABLE; THAT HE INDEED HAD LOST THE ELECTION.

IF I ASK PEOPLE, WHAT COLOR COAT AM I WEARING?

ISN'T IT A NICE RED COAT?

AND 20 PEOPLE TELL ME THAT'S A BLUE COAT AND THEN I FIND SOMEBODY FINALLY TO SAY IT'S A RED COAT, AND I SAY WELL, I HAVE GOOD REASON TO BELIEVE THAT BECAUSE I HAD ONE PERSON OUT OF ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE-- >> YOU ARE NOT A NARCISSIST.

>> BUT LOOK, WHAT YOU ARE GETTING TO IS LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING TO JOHN EASTMAN AND HIS DISBARMENT CASE.

EFFECTIVELY WHAT HE AND TRUMP ARE ARGUING IS THAT THEY'RE ALLOWED TO EXPLORE WEAK LEGAL THEORIES UNTIL THEY LOSE IN COURT.

SO THAT'S WHAT IS GOING TO BE HAPPENING HERE AND TRUMP IS GOING ARGUE HE IS ACTING ON ADVICE OF COUNSEL.

I'M NOT SAYING HE HAS A GOOD CASE.

>> IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK BECAUSE IN THIS IT'S DETAILED IN THE VICE PRESIDENT'S CONVERSATION STARTING AT CHRISTMAS, HE CALLS HIM TO WISH HIM A MERRY CHRISTMAS AND IS CONFRONTED BY THE PRESIDENT TO NOT CERTIFY.

AND HE SAYS I CAN'T DO THAT.

AND THEN DAY AFTER DAY LEADING UP TO THAT, THAT PENCE, 100% IN HIS NOTES, COPIOUS NOTES, AS IT'S EXPLAINED, STATES THAT HE CANNOT DO THAT.

AND YET THE PRESIDENT FIRED THE PEOPLE THAT TOLD HIM THAT THE ELECTION WAS RIGGED.

AND LOST 60 SOME CASES THAT IT WAS RIGGED.

>> TARA, WHAT IS YOUR TAKE?

>> I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH BEN AND THAT'S-- THERE ARE TWO DAMNING PARTS OF THIS.

AND ONE IS THAT THE CONSTANT CONVERSATIONS WITH THE VICE PRESIDENT.

THE OTHER ONE IS THAT YOU HAD THE NUMBER OF STATED ATTORNEYS GENERAL, SECRETARIES OF STATE SAYING DO YOU NOT VACATIONS.

YOU LOST THE ELECTION.

THERE WASN'T MASSIVE VOTER FRAUD.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, YOU EITHER BUY THE NARCISSISTIC ARGUMENT OR YOU THEN HAVE TO MOVE TO THE NEXT ARGUMENT AND SAY OKAY, THIS PERSON WAS TOTALLY MOTOR OIL AND MENTALLY ILL AND HE MAY USE THAT AS A DEFENSE AT SOME POINT.

>> CLEARLY A CAMPAIGN SLOGAN.

>> EXACTLY.

BUT THERE CLEARLY WAS MORE THAN ENOUGH EVIDENCE WHERE A NORMAL THINKING PERSON WOULD HAVE STOPPED AND SAID OKAY, I'VE LOST THIS ELECTION.

I NEED TO STOP THIS PROCESS.

AND HE CONTINUED WITH IT.

AND SO I THINK THERE IS MORE THAN ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO SAY THAT, NO, YOU DIDN'T REALLY THINK YOU HAD WON THIS ELECTION.

>> SMITH HAS ALLUDED TO THIS.

THERE IS INTERESTING STUFF.

YOU MENTIONED PENCE.

HE'S TOO HONEST, THIS QUOTE.

THIS INTERACTION WITH MARK MILLIE WHERE HE IS ASKING ABOUT NATIONAL SECURITY KIND OF ISSUE AND TRUMP SAID I'LL LEAVE THAT TO THE NEXT GUY.

WE'RE DONE HERE.

SO THERE ARE THESE INDICATION THAT, HE KNEW.

>> AND HE CALLED SOME OF THEM CRAZIES, YOU KNOW.

>> CALLED SOME OF WHO CRAZIES?

>> TRUMP DID.

>> MIKE PENCE HAS COME UP SEVERAL TIMES IN THIS CONVERSATION AND JUST YESTERDAY HE SAID THAT TRUMP ASKED HIM, ESSENTIALLY TO OVERTHROW THE ELECTION.

THE FIRST TIME HE HAS SAID SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT STRONG.

SO, I MEAN... >> BASED ON THIS, HE IS OBVIOUSLY BEEN VERY INVOLVED IN THE INVESTIGATION AND MASS HAS GIVEN A LOT OF INFORMATION THAT IS GOING TO COME OUT.

THE LAST THING I WILL SAY IS THE FOCUS IS NOT REALLY ON THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND WHAT HE KNEW AND DIDN'T KNOW.

IT'S THIS OBSTRUCTION THAT'S GOING TO STICK BECAUSE THAT'S THE TIMELINE, THE NARRATIVE THAT LEADS UP TO IT, IN ADDITION TO HIM NOT DOING ANYTHING, HE WAS DOING THINGS ACTIVELY TRYING TO GET IN TOUCH WITH SENATORS TO CONTINUE TO OBSTRUCT THE VOTE.

>> OKAY, SO I GUESS WE COULD SEE PENCE ON THE STAND.

>> YES.

>> THAT IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING.

IT WON'T BE A TELEVISED TRIAL.

THAT'S ANOTHER QUESTION WE WILL TAKE ON ANOTHER WEEK.

SHOULD IT BE?

BUT IT'S IN FEDERAL COURT.

WHILE TRUMP IS IN SERIOUS LEGAL JEOPARDY, THE INCUMBENT HAS A DIFFERENT SORT OF PROBLEM.

HUNTER BIDEN IS IN GOP CROSSHAIRS FOR HIS OVERSEAS BUSINESS AFFAIRS.

ON MONDAY HIS PARTNER TOLD THE HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE THAT JOE BIDEN SPOKE TO HUNTER'S BUSINESS ASSOCIATES SEVERAL TIMES OVER THE PAST DECADE, SOMETHING PRESIDENT BIDEN PREVIOUSLY DENIED.

CALLS WERE JUST SMALL TALK, NOT BUSINESS RELATED.

CONSERVATIVE MEDIA IS HAVING A FIELD DAY.

HOW DAMAGING IS THIS TO THE PRESIDENT, IF AT ALL?

>> IT'S HUGELY DAMAGING.

IN PART BECAUSE IT FURTHERS THE NARRATIVE THAT THE D.O.J.

HAS BECOME POLITICIZED, WHICH IS SOMETHING ALL OF TRUMP SUPPORT ERTS, WHICH IS 37% OF AMERICANS BELIEVE.

I THINK THERE ARE TWO KEY CONSERVATIVE OBJECTIONS ABOUT THE WAY THAT HUNTER BIDEN HAS BEEN TREATED WHICH I THINK ARE WORTH PAYING ATTENTION TO.

THE FIRST IS THAT WHILE HUNTER HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH TWO MISDEMEANOR TAX CRIMES AND FELONY POSSESSION OF FIREARMS.

HE HAS NOT BEEN INDICTED.

THE SECOND IS THAT THE D.O.J.

HAS BEEN SLOW ROLLING INVESTIGATIONS IN HUNTER BIDEN SINCE 2018.

AND SO THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS IS ALREADY SET ON SOME OF HIS MORE SERIOUS TAX OFFENSES.

>> OKAY, BUT THE HEARINGS THIS WEEK IN THE HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE ARE NOT ABOUT HIS TAX AND GUN PROBLEM, RIGHT?

SO THERE IS STILL ANOTHER ASPECT TO THIS, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, SHADY BUSINESS DEALINGS?

IS THAT TOO STRONG A WORD?

RICK, I KNOW YOU WERE PRETTY... >>-- PRETTY ADAMANT ABOUT YOUR OPINION.

>> JOE BIDEN HAS A BLIND SPOT WITH RESPECT TO HIS SON, WHICH MANY OF US CAN SYMPATHIZE WITH.

BUT AS PRESIDENT-- AS VICE PRESIDENT AND AS PRESIDENT, I THINK HE'S PUT HIMSELF IN A POSITION THAT THESE ARE SELF-INFLICTED WOUNDS RIGHT NOW.

WHETHER OR NOT HE ACTUALLY WAS HELPING HUNTER BIDEN, HE HAD TO KNOW THAT HUNTER WAS TRYING TO SELL THE ABILITY TO HAVE ACCESS TO HIS DAD.

AND EVEN BY GETTING ON THE PHONE AND TALKING ABOUT THE WEATHER HAD TO BE KNOWLEDGEABLE THAT HE WAS SENDING A SIGNAL THAT, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS HE WAS KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT WHAT HIS SON WAS DOING AND THAT PERHAPS-- YOU KNOW, THERE IS PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY BUT THE OPTICS ON THIS ARE REALLY TERRIBLE AND I THINK HE IS GOING TO PAY A PRICE FOR THIS.

>> OKAY, SO IS IT INFLUENCE PEDDLING IF YOU DON'T DELIVER THE GOODS?

BECAUSE JOE BIDEN DID NOT DELIVER THE GOODS ON THESE DEALS AND-- >> WE DON'T KNOW.

>> SURE WE KNOW BECAUSE... >> I DO THINK THAT A SPECIAL COUNSEL IS WARRANTED IN THIS CASE.

>> WELL, I WOULD DISAGREE WITH THAT BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS THEMSELVES HAVE BEEN INVESTIGATING HUNTER BIDEN FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

THERE WAS THE HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE REPORT, WHICH BASICALLY SAYS THEY COULDN'T FIND ANY CORRUPTION THERE.

BASICALLY JUST POOR JUDGMENT, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT WAS CLEARLY AWKWARD.

THEY EVEN NOTED THE FACT THAT THERE WERE MEMBERS OF THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION RAISED RED FLAGS THAT HUNTER WAS NOT BEING REINED IN.

EVEN THE REPUBLICANS WHO STARTED LOOKING AT WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH HUNTER BIDEN SEVERAL YEARS AGO, BASICALLY THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO FIND A SMOKING GUN.

SO I THINK THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH INFLUENCE PEDDLING.

BUT THIS REALLY WILL, TO ME, CREATE PROBLEMS FOR BIDEN BECAUSE IT WILL BRING INTO QUESTION HIS JUDGMENT WHEN IT COMES TO FIRST AND FOREMOST, A MEMBER OF HIS FAMILY; SOMETHING THAT CERTAINLY HE AND OTHER DEMOCRATS HAVE, YOU KNOW, CRITICIZED TRUMP FOR.

IT ALSO WILL BRING INTO QUESTION IF YOU GO BEYOND THAT, SORT OF, YOU KNOW, THE REALITY OF BEING PRESIDENT AND WHAT IS APPROPRIATE-- VICE PRESIDENT AND PRESIDENT AND WHAT IS APPROPRIATE AND WHAT IS NOT APPROPRIATE AND THAT'S GOING TO PULL IN SOMETHING THAT REALLY HAS NOTHING DO WITH THIS BUT IS GOING TO PULL IN, FOR EXAMPLE, THE WHOLE ILLEGITIMATE GRANDCHILD DYNAMIC, ET CETERA.

SO IT IS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM.

AND EVEN IF YOU HAVE A CLEAR STATEMENT, AFTER ALL OF THE INVESTIGATIONS, THAT, YOU KNOW, JOE BIDEN DIDN'T DO ANYTHING, HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING THAT WAS INAPPROPRIATE, MAYBE JUST POOR JUDGMENT IN TERMS OF HIS SON, IT'S STILL NOT GOING TO BE SOMETHING HE CAN WALK AWAY FROM BECAUSE OF THE APPEARANCE OF POOR JUDGE MANY.

>> HUNTER IS A PROBLEM NO MATTER WHAT.

>> WELL, THE OPTICS AREN'T GOOD, RIGHT?

THE OPTICS OF HAVING DOCUMENTS CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS IN MULTIPLE PLACES AFTER THE FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS THE MAR-A-LAGO INCIDENT, THAT OPTICS IS NOT GOOD FOR BIDEN.

AND THEN YOU HAVE THIS.

BUT THIS COULD JUST BE-- AND WHAT IT APPEARS BASED ON WHAT HAS BEEN RELEASED TO US SO FAR, IS A FATHER CALLING HIS SON OR THE SON CALLING THE FATHER AND THE FATHER PICKING UP THE PHONE.

HE HAPPENED TO BE VICE PRESIDENT.

AND YES, HIS NAME DEFINITELY WAS THE REASON WHY HE WAS GETTING PAID $86,000 EACH MONTH.

>> SO HUNTER WAS GETTING A LOT OF MONEY FROM THE UKRAINIAN ENERGY COMPANY.

BUT THE ISSUE THERE-- ISN'T THIS THE SAME ISSUE AT ITS CORE, THAT THE FIRST TRUMP IMPEACHMENT WAS ABOUT, THAT THEY WERE TRYING TO SHOW THAT THIS PROSECUTOR-- INSPECTOR OVER IN UKRAINE WAS FIRED BECAUSE BIDEN WANTED HIM TO BE FIRED BECAUSE HE WAS PRESSURING BARISMA EXCEPT THE WHOLE GOVERNMENT WANTED HIM TO BE FIRED AND THE E.U.

WANTED HIM TO BE FIRED BECAUSE HE WASN'T PRESSURING-- AND DEVYN ARCHER BASICALLY SAID THAT IN HIS INTERVIEW THE OTHER DAY.

I MEAN WE ARE STILL CHASING THE SAME TAIL THAT'S BEEN CHASED FOR FIVE YEARS NOW.

>> IT HAS BEEN INVESTIGATED FOR MULTIPLE YEARS, YES.

AND, YES, THERE IS SOME SMOKE AS FAR AS OPTICS, BUT BEYOND THAT, IT IS LIKE SMOKE AND MIRRORS.

>> I WANT TO CHALLENGE A LITTLE BIT THE NO SMOKING GUN ON HUNTER A BIT BECAUSE AGAIN, AT SOME LEVEL, THE D.O.J.

IS CONSTRAINED WHAT COULD BE INVESTIGATED.

AND I THINK THAT THINGS-- WE COULD DO A LOT OF GOOD BY APPOINTING A SPOWM TO INVESTIGATE IT.

IT WOULD BE A WAY OF SHOWING NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW AND THE DOMING IS WILLING TO GO AFTER POWERFUL DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ALIKE.

>> THERE IS A SPECIAL COUNSEL.

YOU MENTIONED CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS.

THERE WAS A SPECIAL COUNSEL.

WE HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING FROM THE COUNSEL.

NOW, ORGANIZED LABOR IS HAVING A MOMENT AFTER THREATENING TO WALKOUT, UPS WORKERS REACHED AN AGREEMENT WITH A BIG PAY BOOST FOR PART TIME WORKERS.

THE UNITED AUTO WORKERS UNION IS THREATENING TO STRIKE.

THOUSANDS OF HOLLYWOOD WRITERS AND ACTORS ARE ON THE PICKET LINE.

BLOOMBERG NEWS IS REPORTING 650 THOUSAND AMERICAN WORKERS ARE EITHER ON STRIKE OR THREATENING TO WALK OUT THIS SUMMER.

WHY ARE WE SEEING THIS SURGE IN LABOR ACTIVITY?

TAR SNARKS.

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THIS IS ABOUT THE SAME THING THAT JOINING UNIONS HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT.

WAGES, HOURS AND WORKING CONDITIONS.

AND THEN YOU ADD ONE OTHER THING, WHICH IS A GROWING CONCERN ABOUT THE IMPACT OF TECHNOLOGY ON JOBS.

YOU KNOW, WRITERS GILD AND SCREEN ACTORS GILD, THEY'RE VERY CONCERNED, FOR EXAMPLE, ABOUT A.I.

AND WHAT IMPACT IT WILL HAVE ON THEIR JOBS.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE UPS SETTLEMENT THAT JUST RECENTLY OCCURRED, ONE OF THEIR BIG CONCERNS WAS WORKING IN THE HEAT, LACK OF AIR CONDITIONING, ET CETERA.

SO UNITED AUTO WORKERS, THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE IMPACT OF ELECTRIC CARS.

SO TECHNOLOGY IS ALSO FUELING SOME OF THIS.

THE OTHER THING THAT'S FUELING THIS IS THE FACT THAT WE ARE IN A GOOD ECONOMY.

UNION MEMBERSHIP TYPICALLY, INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH GOES UP IN A GOOD ECONOMY AND HAS A TENDENCY TO GO DOWN IN A BAD ECONOMY BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF LOSING THEIR JOBS.

SO ALL OF THAT IS HAVING AN IMPACT RIGHT NOW.

>> AND ABOUT OF WE HAVE OUR EXPERTS JUMP IN, THERE IS ONE MORE THING: INFLATION.

INFLATION IS OUTPACING OUR INCOME AND OUR RAISES.

>> SO PEOPLE WANT MORE.

>> THEY'RE PAYING MORE.

THEY NEED MORE.

>> SO THEY WANT PAY RAISES.

RIGHT.

>> I SEE THIS LESS AS A STRENGTH OF ORGANIZED LABOR AND MORE AS THE STRENGTH OF LABOR IN GENERAL, WITH A 3.6% UNEMPLOYMENT RATE, WITH, YOU KNOW, MILLIONS OF JOB OPENINGS OUT THERE, WORKERS OF ALL TYPES HAVE MORE NEGOTIATING POWER RIGHT NOW.

AND SO I THINK THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT WE ARE SEEING WITH, LIKE UPS AND PERHAPS AUTO WORKERS GETTING BIG WAGE GAINS IS DIFFERENT THAN SEEING AN INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF WORKERS THAT ARE IN UNION JOBS.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT, IN THE LONG RUN, I STILL THINK THERE ARE TOO MANY IMPEDIMENTS AGAINST UNIONIZATION, ESPECIALLY IN THE SOUTH.

IT IS TRUE THAT NATIONALLY THE POLLS ARE SHOWING INCREASES IN PEOPLE SUPPORTING UNIONS BUT I DON'T THINK THAT WE ARE GOING TO SEE A BIG INCREASE IN UNIONIZATION BECAUSE OF THIS.

>> I THINK TARA IS RIGHT.

BUT THERE IS ACTUALLY HIDDEN IRONY HERE THAT UNIONS ARE MOST LIKELY TO INCREASE SOCIAL WELFARE WHEN FIRMS HAVE MARKET POWER BUT IT'S HARD TO ORGANIZE IN THAT ENVIRONMENT BECAUSE WORKERS DON'T HAVE CREDIBLE ALTERNATIVES AT PLACES TO WORK.

BY CONTRAST, UNIONS CAN ACTUALLY DECREASE SOCIAL WELFARE, WHEN FIRMS ARE COMPETING INTENSELY FOR WORKERS BUT THAT'S THE EASIEST TIME FOR WORKERS TO ORGANIZE.

>> SO WE ARE SEEING THIS SURGE RIGHT NOW OR INCREASED INTEREST, BUT WE ARE SEEING A LOT OF RIGHT TO WORK STATES, RIGHT?

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE ALLUDING TO, RICK?

>> YES.

>> THAT SEEMS TO BE GUN CONTROLLING AS WELL.

ISN'T THERE SOME KIND OF TENSION THERE?

>> THAT'S WHY, AGAIN, I'M NOT OPTIMISTIC THAT IN THIS-- WHILE WE ARE SEEING EXISTING UNIONS BEING ABLE TO EXTRACT FAIRLY LARGE GAINS FROM EMPLOYERS, I'M NOT OPTIMISTIC THAT THIS IS GOING TO LEAD TO AN INCREASE IN UNIONIZATION, THE NUMBER OF WORKERS THAT ARE UNIONIZED ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> NOW SOME INDUSTRIES ARE PUSHING BACK AGAINST THIS, RIGHT?

I THINK IT'S STARBUCKS THAT'S BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN THAT?

>> YEAH, AND I THINK IT'S USEFUL TO CONTRAST TWO COMPANIES THAT HAVE BEEN IN THE NEWS.

SO STARBUCKS, 55% OF COFFEE CONSUMED IN THE U.S. IS PURCHASED FROM INDEPENDENT CAFES AND COFFEE SHOPS.

THAT'S A SUPER COMPETITIVE ENVIRONMENT.

AND NEW RESEARCH OUT OF NORWAY, SOME ECONOMISTS THERE DESCRIBE HOW IN THAT ENVIRONMENT UNIONS NOT ONLY DECREASE SOCIAL WELFARE, BUT ALSO INCREASE INEQUALITY IN GENDER WAGE GAP.

UNIONS ARE NOT EFFECTIVE IN THAT ENVIRONMENT.

CONTRAST THAT WITH UPS, WHERE THAT'S AN INDUSTRY WHERE FOUR COMPANIES ACCOUNT FOR 98% OF DELIVERY SERVICES.

THERE IS NOT A LOT OF COMPETITION THERE.

UNIONS PLAY A REALLY IMPORTANT ROLE IN THAT SECTOR, TRYING TO PROMOTE WAGE EQUALITY AND MARKET EFFICIENCY.

AND SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, STARBUCKS VERSUS UPS AND SEEING THE SUCCESS DIFFERENCES THERE HAS TO DO WITH HOW MUCH COMPETITION THERE IS IN THE MARKET.

>> AND NOW WITH THE UAW AND THE MANUFACTURING, YOU MENTIONED ELECTRIC VEHICLES.

SO THERE IS A QUESTION ABOUT THE BATTERY PLANTS.

NOW ARE THESE NEW PLACES GOING TO BE UNIONIZED?

>> THAT'S ONE OF THE ISSUES HERE.

FIRST OF ALL, ELECTRIC VEHICLES REQUIRE LESS WORKERS.

SO WHAT THE UAW IS LOOKING FOR IS NOT ONLY HIGHER WAGES BUT TRYING TO PROTECT THE NUMBER OF UNION JOBS AVAILABLE.

>> OKAY, LET'S GO TO OUR AS AND Fs.

TARA YOUR F. >> MY F GOES TO THE RECENT FACTS ON MERIT BASED AID PACKAGES REPORTED IN THE HECKINGER REPORT.

THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT NEED BASED AID HAS RISEN AT THE SAME TIME AS MERIT-BASED AID.

THE BAD NEWS IS THAT BECAUSE OF THE NEED TO ATTRACT MORE STUDENTS WHO ARE LIKELY TO COMPLETE THEIR EDUCATION, COLLEGES USE AN ECONOMIC ALGORITHM WHICH ENSURES MOST OF THE MERIT-BASED AID GOES TO EUROPEAN AND ASIAN-AMERICAN STUDENTS.

SAD THING IS, MANY OF THEIR PARENTS ACTUALLY CAN PAY FOR THEIR EDUCATIONS.

>> BEN.

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY, I'LL PIGGY BACK OFF OF THAT WITH I'M GIVING MY F TO THE UNITED STATES STUDENT LOAN SYSTEM.

WE HAVE ABOUT 70% OF OUR COLLEGE GRADS GO INTO DEBT AS THEY LEAVE SCHOOL.

BETWEEN 2002 AND 2013, PUBLIC SPENDING ON EDUCATION DROPPED 30%.

THE DEBT THAT STUDENTS HAVE IS SECOND ONLY TO MORTGAGES.

SO THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME WORK DONE.

>> CHAD.

>> I HOLD HERE MY LAST BEER FROM ANCHOR BREWING WHICH AT 127 YEARS OLD WAS AMERICA'S OLDEST CRAFT BREWERY.

IN 2019 IT VOTED TO UNIONIZE.

IT CLOSED LAST MONTH AND IS NOW HEADING TO LIQUIDATION.

I DON'T WANT TO CLAIM CAUSE AND EFFECT ON AN ANECDOTE BUT IT IS CONSISTENT WITH MY CLAIM THAT UNIONIZATION IN A COMPETITIVE MARKET LIKE CRAFT BREWING CAN REDUCE SOCIAL WELFARE BUT MOSTLY I'M JUST SAD THAT THIS AMERICAN INSTITUTION IS GONE.

>> AND RICK.

>> MY F GO IS TO THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT.

IN 2021 CONGRESS PASSED A LAW INTENDING TO CUT DOWN ON TAX CHEATING BY CRYPTOINVESTORS BUT THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT HAS MISSED NUMEROUS DEADLINES AND WILL NOT IMPLEMENT THE LAW UNTIL 2024 COSTING US BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN TAX REVENUES.

>> TIME FOR THE A.

>> TO THE LATE HENRY YETA LACS, SHE WAS THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMAN WHOSE RARE CERVICAL CANCER CELLS WERE TAKEN WITHOUT HER PERMISSION IN THE 1930S AND USED BY SCIENTISTS TO REVOLUTIONIZE MEDICAL TREATMENT.

THIS WEEK A SETTLEMENT WAS REACHED IN THE LAWSUIT BETWEEN HER FAMILY AND THE SCIENTIFIC WHICH OWNS THE PATENT ON THE USE OF HER CELLS.

>> AND BEN.

YOUR A.

>> MY A IS GOING FOR THE DISPLAY OF THOSE WHO GO INTO POLICING FOR THE RIGHT REASONS.

EARLIER THIS WEEK, THE POLICE WERE CALLED IN GEORGIA FOR A MAN THAT WAS GOING DOOR TO DOOR, A YOUNG MAN GOING DOOR TO DOOR ASKING TO MOW YARDS, CLIP, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER, SO HE COULD PLAY A PLAY STATION 5 AND INSTEAD OF THE OFFICER TELLING THE YOUNG MAN TO GET OUT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, HE WENT TO HIS OFFICERS AND THEY ALL COLLECTED $500 AND BOUGHT HIM ONE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

CHAD.

YOUR A.

>> I ALMOST GAVE IT TO LACKSAS FAMILY BUT EYE GAVE IT TO ERIC DANIEL SON, A TREE HUNTER TO DISCOVERED NEW YORK'S TALLEST TREE LAST YEAR AND THE LARGEST WHITE PINE IN THE ADIRONDACKS.

SYRACUSE.COM HAS A GOOD PIECE DESCRIBING HOW HE FOUND IT USING PUBLIC ARCHIVES AND AERIAL LASERS.

INTERESTING STUFF FOR THOSE OF US WHO ENJOY THE OUTDOORS.

>> RICK?

>> MY A GOES TO THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS FOR VOTING UNANIMOUSLY TO CONTINUE THEIR SUPPORT OF GENDER AFFIRMING CARE FOR TRANSPARENCY CHILDREN.

ACADEMY BELIEVES MEDICAL DECISIONS SHOULD BE BASED ON EVIDENCE NOT FOUNDED ON MYTHS AND BIASES.

>> OKAY.

THANKS, RICK.

AND SO THE TREE, I LIKE THIS IDEA OF FINDING THESE REALLY LARGE TREES UP IN THE ADIRONDACKS AND OTHER PLACES.

EVERYBODY SHOULD GO SPEND MORE TIME LOOKING FOR BIG TREES, ESPECIALLY IN THE ADIRONDACKS, JUST NOT ON THE TRAILS THAT I'M ON.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE SHOW AGAIN YOU CAN VIEW IT I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FOR ALL OF US AT IVORY TOWER, HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.