>> Bonnie: HELLO.

I AM BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO "TO THE CONTRARY", A WEEKLY DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

JOINING ME THIS WEEK ARE D.C.

DELEGATE ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, RUTH CONNIFF'S OVER THE WISCONSIN EXAMINER, HADLEY HEATH OF THE INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S FORUM, AND RINA SHAH AURORA, HEAD OF WOMEN REPUBLICANS FOR A BIDEN.

SO STARTING WITH YOU, RUTH, SINCE YOU ARE IN WISCONSIN, AND IT IS A BATTLEGROUND STATE, TELL US FIRST WHAT IS GOING ON WITH TRUMP AND WOMEN THERE.

HE MADE THIS BIZARRE APPEAL THIS WEEK WHICH, FOR A GUY WHO PRIDES HIMSELF ON BEING MR. TOUGH GUY OR AT LEAST ACTING LIKE HE IS A TOUGH GUY, JUST ALMOST CRYING TO WHITE SUBURBAN WOMEN, SAYING, PLEASE, LIKE ME!

WILL THAT HAVE ANY IMPACT ON WHITE SUBURBAN WOMEN IN WISCONSIN LIKING HIM?

>> I THINK THE OTHER PART OF THAT QUOTE OF COURSE WAS THAT TRUMP TOLD WHITES SUBURBAN WOMEN HE WAS HELPING THEM UP BY OPPOSING THE DESEGREGATION OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS, WHICH IS SORT OF A SHOCKING ASSUMPTION THAT WHITE SUBURBAN WOMEN ARE AS A GROUP RACISTS WHO ARE AFRAID BLACK PEOPLE WILL MOVE IN NEXT DOOR.

THIS WAS NOT A WINNING APPEAL.

I JUST THINK THAT THIS -- IT'S A SIGN OF DESPERATION.

>> I THOUGHT HIS COMMENT WAS PERHAPS AN ATTEMPT TO BE FUNNY OR SELF-DEPRECATING, BUT I AM SURE WITH THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN REALIZES AND PROBABLY THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF IS THAT THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY WHO WILL BE PULLING THE LEVER FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP WHO DO NOT LIKE HIM.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIKE SOMEONE TO VOTE FOR HIM.

WHILE IT WAS KIND OF FUNNY, IT WAS BESIDE THE POINT.

>> Bonnie: I SAY THIS IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, WAS IT A PRODUCT OF HIM BEING ON STEROIDS FOR COVID-19?

IT WAS REALLY -- HE IS NOT USUALLY HUMOROUS.

IT DID NOT SEEM TO ME LIKE HE WAS BEING HUMOROUS.

IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE HE WAS SOMEBODY SORT OF OVER PUMPED UP ON DROIDS.

>> I THINK IS BEING DESPERATE.

I DON'T THINK THE STEROIDS NECESSARILY SPEAK TO IT, BUT HIS DESPERATION IS SHOWING IN A WAY I THINK WE HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE.

HE RADIATES CONFIDENCE.

BUT WHAT HE KNOWS IS THAT WHITE WOMEN, WHITE SUBURBAN WOMEN ARE WHO GAVE US THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

THAT TREND IS NOW SLEEPING, IN FACT, FLOWING INTO THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

HE'S FEELING IT, AND A SPECIAL APPEAL TO WHITE SUBURBAN WOMEN, EVEN THOUGH AS OF 2018, IT'S PRETTY CLEAR HE HAD ALREADY LOST THEM.

>> RINA, YOUR THOUGHTS?

WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THOSE WHITE WOMEN, WHITE SUBURBAN WOMEN WHO ARE BREAKING NOW FOR BIDEN ARE REPUBLICANS?

>> I THINK, BONNIE, THERE IS NOT A RELIABLE PULLING THE TELLS US ANYTHING ABOUT THAT AS OF YET.

LOOK, AFTER 2016, ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN.

I DON'T PARTICULARLY SEE ANYTHING OUT THERE THAT TELLS ME MORE ABOUT WHO IS SHIFTING AT THIS VERY POINT.

I DON'T THINK ANYONE IS BEEN PARTICULARLY HONEST.

LET'S NOT FORGET THAT THIS IS AN UNUSUAL YEAR BECAUSE OF THE EARLY VOTING.

THIS IS JUST SO UNUSUAL.

WE HAVE NEVER SEEN A TIME LIKE THIS WHERE AT THE POINT AT WHICH RUTH BADER GINSBURG, THE JUSTICE, PAST, PEOPLE HAD RECEIVED BALLOTS AT THAT POINT.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AN UNUSUAL TIME.

TALKING EVERYBODY IN THE NATION 1.

I RECEIVED IT BY THEN.

WHAT WE KNOW RIGHT NOW FACTS.

THE PRESIDENT KNOWS THESE FACTS AS WELL AND HE WILL SAY THINGS THAT ARE SO FUNNY AND SELF-DEPRECATING, BUT I DON'T FIND IT FUNNY BECAUSE THIS IS ON HIM, THIS IS BEEN ON HIS WATCH THAT WE HAVE 215,000 OF OUR FELLOW AMERICANS DEAD.

JUST DEAD AND COUNTING.

THERE WAS NO END IN SIGHT FOR THE AMERICAN WOMAN.

THE MODERN AMERICAN WORKING WOMAN LIKE MYSELF IS AT HOME BALANCING VIRTUAL SCHOOLING.

IT IS JUST SHOCKING WHAT WE ARE GOING THROUGH RIGHT NOW.E HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THE IMPACT IS GOING TO BE ON US UNTIL WE GET OUT OF THIS THING.

AGAIN, ABOUT THE FACTS, BONNIE, OVERALL, FOUR TIMES MORE WOMEN THAN MEN DROPPED OUT OF THE LABOR FORCE IN SEPTEMBER.

THE SITUATION FOR SINGLE WOMEN, AND THAT IS, AGAIN, MERRY DEVELOPMENT HAVE A TOUGH.

PEOPLE LIKE ME WITH CHILDREN, BUT SINGLE WOMEN, IT'S NOT LOOKING GOOD FOR THEM EITHER.

THREE WOMEN DROPPED OUT FOR EVERY WOMAN WHO GOT A JOB.

THIS IS WHAT WE KNOW JUST THIS FALL.

THE PRESIDENT IS THIS TOO AND HE'S TRYING EVERYTHING.

>> Bonnie: HADLEY FROM COLORADO, HOW IS THE PRESIDENT DOING?

NOT A BATTLEGROUND STATE, REALLY, THAT SORT OF ON THE EDGE OF BEING A BATTLEGROUND STATE.

>> WAS INTERESTING AS WE TALK ABOUT THIS SERVE GROUPS A LOT.

THE RURAL AREAS AND URBAN AREAS ARE PRETTY MUCH DECIDED.

THE QUESTION FOR THE CAMPAIGNS IS CAN THEY RUN UP THEIR MARGINS IN THOSE PLACES?

CAN TRUMP RUN UP HIS MARGIN IN RURAL AREAS AND CAN BIDEN RUN UP HIS MARGIN IN PLACES LIKE WHERE I LIVE, THE CITY OF DENVER, WHICH IS DEEP DARK BLUE.

THE QUESTION IS, HOW WILL THE SUBURBS OF NOT JUST COLORADO BUT THE REST OF THE COUNTRY VOTE?

THAT'S WHY THERE'S SO MUCH FOCUS ON THIS GROUP THAT TENDS TO SWING THE ELECTORAL VOTE OF IMPORTANT SWING STATES OF THE GOSPEL AND ALSO SWING STATES HE MAY CONSIDER COLORADO THIS YEAR.

I DON'T THINK WE ARE A SWING STATE.

IN THE PAST WE HAVE BEEN BUT JUST LIKE MY HOME STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA IS UP IN THE AIR AT THIS POINT WHETHER BIDEN WILL TAKE THE VOTES.

IT IS CERTAINLY THE PULLING WOULD SUGGEST THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS DEEP UNDERWATER IN SOME SUBURBS ESPECIALLY WITH SUBURBAN WOMEN, BUT I THINK AS RINA REFERENCE, PULLING IS NOT RELIABLE IN PART I BELIEVE BECAUSE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT WHITE COLLEGE-EDUCATED SUBURBAN WOMEN, FRANKLY, IT'S SORT OF EMBARRASSING FOR MANY WOMEN IN THIS GROUP TO ADMIT THAT THEY ARE PLANNING TO VOTE FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP.

THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT IT SOCIALLY.

THEY ARE THE QUIETEST VOTER GROUP MAY BE IN THE COUNTRY IS WHITE SUBURBAN COLLEGE-EDUCATED WOMEN WHO ARE PLANNING TO VOTE FOR TRUMP.

THEY ARE MAKING THESE PLANS BECAUSE, IF YOU REMEMBER, BEFORE THE PANDEMIC STRUCK, THE ECONOMY WAS AT AN ALL-TIME HIGH.

WE DID SEE NOT JUST A BOOMING ECONOMY FOR EVERYONE GENERALLY BUT SPECIFICALLY FOR WOMEN WE SAW RECORD NUMBERS OF WOMEN OPENING THEIR OWN BUSINESSES AND WE JUST HAD THE LOWEST ON RECORD PROPERTY RIGHTS FOR SINGLE MOTHERS.

WE HAD A VERY GOOD SITUATION IN SO FAR AS THE ISSUES GO, VOTERS STILL SAY THE ECONOMY IS THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE, FROM WOMEN AND MEN.

VOTERS SAY THEY TRUST PRESIDENT TRUMP MORE ON THE ECONOMY THAN JOE BIDEN.

THAT IS REALLY I THINK THE ONLY HOPE THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS AT THIS POINT, IS TO REMIND VOTERS THAT HE COULD POTENTIALLY BRING ECONOMIC PROSPERITY IN THE FUTURE IF WE GET THE PANDEMIC UNDER CONTROL.

>> CONGRESSWOMAN, WHERE THE DEMOCRATS NOT MAKING MORE OF THE ISSUE OF THE DEFICIT?

THIS PRESIDENT HAS RUN UP HIGHER DEFICITS THAN ANY OTHER PRESIDENT IN U.S. HISTORY, EVEN WHEN YOU TAKE THE VALUATION OF THE DOLLAR OVER, OVER TIME INTO ACCOUNT.

THIS IS NOW FINALLY BEING CALLED BY REPUBLICANS, WHO ARE AGAINST TRUMP, IS AN ISSUE.

WHY ARE NOT THE DEMOCRATS USING IT?

>> DEFICITS HAVE NEVER BEEN A DEMOCRATIC ISSUE.

SO IT WOULD BE VERY UNUSUAL FOR US TO CALL THE DEFICIT, ESPECIALLY SINCE NOBODY IS REALLY RAISING THE DEFICIT NOW WHEN EVERYBODY BELIEVES WE SHOULD BE SPENDING MONEY AGAINST THIS PANDEMIC AND AGAINST WHAT IS HAPPENING TO UNEMPLOYMENT.

SO THE DEFICIT IS NOT A GOOD ISSUE FOR DEMOCRATS WHO HAVE NEVER REGARDED IT AS THEIR ISSUE.

IS A REPUBLICAN ISSUE.

YOUR QUESTION SHOULD BE, WHY AREN'T REPUBLICANS RAISING THE DEFICIT?

[CROSS TALK] >> SOME OF THEM ARE NOW.

REMEMBER, THEY WERE NOT WHEN HE WAS OVER, WHY OVERSPENDING, ESPECIALLY ON THE MILITARY AND DRIVING -- YOU KNOW, INCREASING THE DEFICIT AND INCREASING THE DEBT BEYOND ANY IMAGINAL PROPORTIONS.

BUT NOW THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SPENDING MONEY TO HELP PEOPLE HURT BY COVID, I.E.

THE POOREST AMERICANS, THEY BRING UP THE DEFICIT.

>> FOR REASONS THAT I CANNOT FATHOM, THAT IS WHY WE ARE STUCK NOW IN THE SENATE.

THEY CANNOT AGREE ON ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY OR ON ANY -- ON AN AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT WOULD SUIT THE REPUBLICAN SIDE FOR A NEW PANDEMIC RECOVERY BILL.

THAT IS WHERE WE ARE STUCK.

SO NOW THEY ARE PULLING OUT THE DEFICIT AS A REASON FOR THEIR OWN DISAGREEMENT, WHEN THE REASON FOR THEIR OWN DISAGREEMENT HAS REALLY, TURNS OUT TO BE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY.

THEY CANNOT AGREE ON AN AMOUNT.

PARTICULARLY IN THE SENATE.

SO THE LEADERSHIP HAS COME ENTIRELY FROM THE HOUSE, AND THE SPEAKER HAS REFUSED TO ACCEPT THAT AMOUNT THAT IS ESSENTIALLY A TOKEN AMOUNT, WHICH IS WHAT THE REPUBLICAN SENATE HAS BEEN OFFERING.

THEY SEEM UNABLE TO AGREE ON ANY AMOUNT BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND THAT IN ORDER TO GET ANY KIND OF A BILL THAT HAS A DECENT AMOUNT OF FUNDING, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE WITH DEMOCRATIC VOTES, SO THE REPUBLICAN SENATE DOES NOT WANT A BILL PASSED ESSENTIALLY WITH DEMOCRATIC VOTES, EVEN THOUGH THERE'S A DESPERATE NEED FOR THAT MONEY IN THE NATION AS I SPEAK.

>> I WANT TO SWITCH TOPICS WITHIN THE -- WITHIN THE AREA OF THE WOMEN'S VOTE.

BUT, RUTH, ARE WOMEN MORE OR LESS BELIEVING THAT WHATEVER THE OUTCOME OF THE SELECTION MAY BE THAT IT WILL COME INTO BEING, MEANING THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS SHOWN THAT HE WILL NOT GIVE UP IF HE LOSES, ARE WOMEN GOING TO BELIEVE THE RESULTS?

AND IF SO, WHEN IN THE PROCESS, MIDNIGHT ELECTION NIGHT OR TWO WEEKS LATER?

WHAT?

>> WELL, THERE IS A REAL CONCERN THAT DONALD TRUMP WILL DECLARE VICTORY WHEN MANY OF US HAVE NOT YET BEEN COUNTED.

HE WILL INSIST HE HAS WON AN ELECTION WHICH IN FACT HE HAS NOT WON AND THAT HE WILL DO THAT ON ELECTION NIGHT WHICH HE SEEMS TO BE PREPARING IN HIS REMARKS TO DO.

LOCAL ELECTIONS OFFICIALS IN WISCONSIN ACTUALLY HELD A PRESS CONFERENCE YESTERDAY TO CLARIFY TO VOTERS, DON'T EXPECT THE RESULTS ON ELECTION NIGHT.

WE NEVER HAVE AN OFFICIAL RESULT ON ELECTION NIGHT IN WISCONSIN.

THERE IS A PROCESS BY WHICH THERE WAS A PRELIMINARY RESULT THAT'S BEEN CERTIFIED IN ALL OF THOSE ABSENTEE BALLOTS THAT ARE STILL COMING IN GOING TO MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION.PREPARING VOTERS TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S NOT A SYMPTOM OF FRAUD, THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE A DELAY IN COUNTING VOTES, THAT WE WILL NOT HAVE CLARITY INSTANTLY ON ELECTION NIGHT IS REALLY IMPORTANT THING BOTH FOR ELECTIONS OFFICIALS TO DO AND FOR THE MEDIA TO DO, FRANKLY.

I KNOW THAT THERE HAVE BEEN MEETINGS -- THERE WAS A PEW FORUM THAT INVOLVES CNN AND OTHER OUTLETS SAYING WE WILL NOT MAKE EARLY CALLS, CLOSE CALLS, AND WE WILL TRY TO LOOK THE FACT THAT EVEN AS YOU LOOK AT RETURNS OF INDIVIDUAL PRECINCTS, [LOST AUDIO] PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THOSE RESULTS IN THE WAY THEY HAVE DONE.

TO YOUR BROADER QUESTION ABOUT SUBURBAN WOMEN VOTERS AND CONFIDENCE IN THE PRESIDENT, I THINK THINGS TOOK A VERY SHARP TURN WHEN TRUMP HIMSELF CAME DOWN WITH COVID AND WHEN 34 PEOPLE IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND AROUND THE WHITE HOUSE WERE ALSO INFECTED.

THERE IS A SENSE THAT THIS PRESIDENT CANNOT AND DOES NOT CARE TO CONTROL THIS PANDEMIC.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WOMEN CARE ABOUT A LOT.

I THINK AS RINA POINTED OUT, WOMEN HAVE TAKEN THE HIT HARDER THAN MEN IN TERMS OF BOTH UNEMPLOYMENT AND IN TERMS OF THE DESPERATE SITUATION THAT WE ARE ALL IN JUGGLING OUR KIDS.

MY KIDS ARE UPSTAIRS ONLINE DOING SCHOOL RIGHT NOW.

WE ARE WORKING AS BEST WE CAN AND IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION.

THERE IS VERY CLEARLY NO PLAN FROM THIS ADMINISTRATION EXCEPT DENIAL.

AND SO, FROM COMING TO WISCONSIN ONCE AGAIN TO HAVE A MASSIVE RALLY THIS WEEK AND SPREAD COVID, THE SENSE OF IRRESPONSIBILITY OF THAT I THINK HAS MADE A HUGE IMPACT ON HIM.

OUR ECONOMY, IT'S FASCINATING TO ME TO WATCH BOTH MIKE PENCE AND DONALD TRUMP COME TO WISCONSIN OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND TRY TO TOUT AN ECONOMIC MIRACLE AS IF THE PANDEMIC WERE AN AFTERTHOUGHT.

THE FACT WE HAVE DEPRESSION LEVELS OF UNEMPLOYMENT, WELL, THAT IS A SMALL BLIP.

WE HAD SOMETHING GOOD GOING BEFORE THAT!

YEAH, THEY HAD THE OBAMA EXPANSION GOING BEFORE THIS.

FRANKLY, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE LIVING THEIR LIVES IN A WAY THAT DOES NOT LINE UP WITH THIS ALTERNATIVE REALITY THAT THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN PROMOTES.

THAT IS JUST SO DESPERATELY CLEAR.

>> ARE REPUBLICAN WOMEN GOING TO BELIEVE THE RESULTS OF THE ELECTION IF BIDEN IS ELECTED?

ARE THEY GOING TO BELIEVE IT IF TRUMP IS SELECTED?

>> YOU KNOW, THIS IS ONE OF THE BENEFITS OF LIVING IN A COUNTRY WHERE RATHER THAN HAVING ONE BIG ELECTION WE HAVE ACTUALLY 51 ELECTIONS AT THE STATE LEVEL AND IN WASHINGTON D.C..

SO I THINK IF THERE IS, YOU KNOW, LACK OF CLARITY, CERTAINLY, SHOULD ALL PREPARE TO NOT HAVE AN ANSWER ON ELECTION NIGHT.

I THINK THAT IS TRUE ACROSS PARTIES AND ACROSS STATES, ESPECIALLY STATES WERE RECEIVED VERY CLOSE TOTALS IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF VOTES.

BUT THE FOCUS WILL REALLY BECOME ON THOSE STATES AT THAT POINT I THINK IN TERMS OF THAT THERE HAS TO BE A RECOUNT OR IF THERE IS COUNTING OF ABSENTEE BALLOTS AND SO FORTH.

THAT IS ONE OF THE BENEFITS OF THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE SYSTEM.

THE PRESIDENT IS NOT TRULY ELECTED UNTIL THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES.

AND SO, WHEN WE DETERMINE WHICH ELECTORS GO FOR EITHER CANDIDATE, THAT WILL BE A PROCESS THAT I THINK AMERICANS ARE TO BE PREPARED FOR THAT PROCESS BUT IT'S A PROCESS THAT I HOPE THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS WILL WANT TO HONOR.

I THINK THERE ARE PEOPLE ON EITHER WINGS, LEFT-WING AND RIGHT-WING, THAT MAY MAKE US THINK ABOUT THINGS.

IN TERMS OF ELECTIONS INTEGRITY, THIS IS NOT A PARTISAN ISSUE.

WE ALL WANT FAITH IN OUR INSTITUTIONS AND ELECTIONS.

>> THAT'S NOT THE CASE BUT REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN WORKING AS HARD AS THEY CAN PARTICULARLY IN MY STATE TO UNDERMINE THE ELECTION, TO STOP VOTING.

THEY ARE TAKING CASES TO COURT TO TRY TO THROW OUT VOTERS.

THERE IS A VOTER PURGE EFFORT HERE FOR PEOPLE WHO MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE CHANGED ADDRESS.

THEN THERE IS JUST THE RHETORIC OF THE PRESIDENT WHO HAS BEEN RELENTLESSLY TRYING TO UNDERMINE CONFIDENCE IN ELECTION RESULTS IN ANTICIPATION OF LOSING AND WANTING TO BE ABLE TO SAY IT'S NOT A LEGITIMATE RESULT.

SO I THINK YOU REALLY DO SEE ONE-PARTY WORKING VERY HARD ON SUPPRESSING THE VOTE, ON CURTAILING VOTING AND UNDERMINING CONFIDENCE IN THE ELECTION.

>> ELEANOR, I SEE SPEAK WITH ADEMOCRATIC OFFICIAL NOT TOO LONG AGO THAT TOLD ME I CAN'T REMEMBER IT WHEN IT WAS 200 OR 400 VOTING CASES ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND SOUNDING VERY WORRIED BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT HAS APPOINTED SUCH A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF NOT JUST SUPREME COURT JUSTICES BUT ALSO FEDERAL DISTRICT COURTS AND COURT OF APPEALS JUDGES THAT THIS PERSON WAS WORRIED THAT THESE CASES MAY NOT BE DECIDED FAIRLY.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

THEN RINA, YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS TOO.

>> ARE YOU SAYING 200 OR 400 VOTING RIGHTS CASES?

>> VOTING RIGHTS CASES ACROSS THE COUNTRY ABOUT DISENFRANCHISEMENT, ABOUT THINGS LIKE THE REPUBLICANS IN CALIFORNIA PUTTING OUT FAKE MAIL-IN BALLOT BOXES, THINGS LIKE THAT.> YEAH.

THOSE CASES HAVE TO BE DECIDED BEFORE THE ELECTION OR THEY WILL BE MOVED AFTER THE ELECTION.

THAT IS WHY YOU SEE A RUSSIAN THE COURTS NOW TO GET THOSE CASES THROUGH GRID AND I THINK THERE ARE TOO MANY OF THEM TO GO THROUGH.

THEY KEEP POPPING UP EVERY DAY.

THAT IS GOING TO LEAD TO MORE CONFUSION AT THE POLLS.

MY OWN SENSE FROM YOUR EARLIER QUESTION IS THAT WOMEN, EVEN REPUBLICAN WOMEN, ARE GOING TO LEAD IN ACCEPTING THE RESULTS OF THE ELECTION, THAT THEIR LEADERSHIP FAR MORE LIKELY AND IMPORTANT TO SAY THE ELECTION HAS BEEN DECIDED.

LET'S MOVE ON.> DO YOU AGREE, RINA?

>> LET'S ADDRESS THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: THIS ADMINISTRATION WILL NOT COMMIT TO THE PEACEFUL TRANSITION OF POWER.

THAT STILL LEAVES ME ON MOST NIGHTS AWAKE AND FEELING REALLY SCARED ABOUT THE FUTURE.

THIS IS A YEAR WHERE WE HAVE HAD TWO PANDEMICS, AS IT'S OFTEN BEEN TALKED ABOUT IN THE MEDIA.

WE HAVE HAD CIVIL UNREST AND THEN WE'VE GOT THIS COVID-19 PANDEMIC, BOTH OF WHICH HAD BEEN HANDLED SO POORLY BY THIS ADMINISTRATION FIGHT LOOKING AT THE FACE.

LOOK, I'M SOMEONE IT'S MADE MY CAREER AND PUT REPUBLICAN POLITICSUT I WILL TELL YOU, VOTING SHOULD NOT BE PART OF THAT I TRULY BELIEVE IN THE GOOD OF OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS.

I'VE GIVEN THEM FOUR YEARS TO CALL IT LIKE THEY SEE IT.

MANY REPUBLICANS ON CAPITOL HILL.

THEY HAVE NOT DONE THAT.

SO, YOU KNOW, I AM NOT AN ALARMIST BY ANY MEANS, BUT I BELIEVE THE SELECTION COULD VERY POSSIBLY BREAK AMERICA.

IF THE VOTE IS SO CLOSE, TRUMP COULD EASILY THROUGH THE SELECTION INTO CHAOS AND SUBVERT THE RESULT.

>> WHAT IN THE CONSTITUTION STOPS HIM, CONGRESSWOMAN, VERY BRIEFLY?

THEN WE WANT TO SWITCH TO OUR SECOND AND FINAL TOPIC.

>> LOOK, IT IS CLEAR TO ME THAT HE CANNOT STOP THIS FROM OCCURRING AND THAT EVEN THE ARMED FORCES, IF NECESSARY, COULD BE CALLED TO MAKE IT CLEAR WHO WON THE ELECTION.

I THINK THAT -- >> WHAT PART OF THE CONSTITUTION ALLOWS THAT TO TAKE PLACE?

>> THE CONSTITUTION DOESN'T -- ASSUMES THE PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER.

SO IF THERE IS NOT A PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER, IT WILL REST ON WHO IS KEEPING THE POWER FROM BEING TRANSFERRED AS TO WHO GETS TO SETTLE THE ELECTION.

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THIS IS MOSTLY GOING TO BE DONE BY COURT SUITS.

HE MAY REFUSE TO GET OUT.

I DON'T THINK YOU WILL REALLY CALL IN THE ARMY.

SOMEBODY WILL SUE AND THE SUPREME COURT WILL HAVE TO DECIDE.

>> THE PEACEFUL TRANSITION OF POWER IS ONE OF OUR LONG ESTABLISHED NORMS, SOMETHING THAT I THINK GENERALLY IS -- THE REASON IT HAPPENS IS BECAUSE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT IT TO HAPPEN AND IT SPEAKS TO OUR GOOD, YOU KNOW, VIRTUE AS A SOCIETY THAT WE WANT TO LIVE IN A SOCIETY, HAVE FAITH IN OUR INSTITUTIONS.

IF WE DON'T HAVE IT IN OUR INSTITUTIONS, OUR NORMS FOR DEVELOPER.

I BELIEVE PRESIDENT TRUMP SHOULD BE COMMITTED TO THE PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER SHOULD HE BE OUSTED FOR OFFICE OR WHENEVER THE TIME MAY COME.

I ALSO BELIEVE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE JOE BIDEN AND KAMALA HARRIS SHOULD COMMIT TO NOT PACKING THE SUPREME COURT BY ADDING MORE JUSTICES.

THAT WOULD ALSO BE A VIOLATION OF OUR NORMS.

>> JOE BIDEN HAS JUST GIVEN AN OUTFIT.

HE KEEPS -- I DON'T KNOW WHY HE DID NOT ANSWER THIS QUESTION BEFORE, BUT HE SAID, LOOK, I'VE ALREADY INDICATED IN THE PAST THAT THERE SHOULD BE NINE JUSTICES.

HE SHOULD'VE PUT THIS TO REST.

>> WE ARE NOW TALKING ABOUT AMY CONEY BARRETT'S CONFIRMATION HEARINGS WHICH BEGAN THIS WEEK.

SHOULD SHE HAVE COMMITTED HERSELF TO RECUSING HERSELF AS A JUSTICE WHEN IT COMES TO DECIDING THE SELECTION IF IT GOES TO THE SUPREME COURT?

>> NO, I DON'T BELIEVE SHE SHOULD HAVE RECUSED HERSELF, BECAUSE, FRANKLY, I MEAN, IF I WERE IN HER SHOES, NO WAY.

YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO BE ON THE HIGHEST COURT IN THE LAND, NO WAY.

THIS WAS IN THE HANDS OF THE SENATE REPUBLICANS -- >> THAT IS NOT THE REASON WHY JUSTICES ARE SUPPOSED TO ACT, BECAUSE THEY ARE UP THERE AND THEY HAVE THE POWER TO DO IT.

> RIGHT, RIGHT.

WE ARE SORT OF POLICING HER MORALITY, THEN, ASKING HER TO WEAR A TOUGH CHOICE AND WE'RE HER MORALS ON THAT.

IS IN THE HANDS OF THE SENATE REPUBLICANS TO DO WHAT THEY SAID DURING MERRICK GARLAND, WHICH WAS WHAT THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE DECIDE WE ARE TOO CLOSE TO THE ELECTION.

I BELIEVE WE WERE 10 MONTHS FROM THEN, AND THIS TIME WE ARE SO CLOSE THAT BALLOTS ARE OUT ALREADY LIKE I MENTIONED EARLIER.

YES, IT'S DEFINITELY -- I WANT TO TIE THIS IN HERE TO AMY CONEY BARRETT, BECAUSE I THINK THIS IS -- SHE'S PUT IN A TOUGH SPOT IN HISTORY.

AGAIN, MERRICK GARLAND WAS PUT ENOUGH TOUGH SPOT IN HISTORY.

OVER THE PAST FOUR YEARS, THERE IS EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THAT WE AS AMERICANS TRUST OUR INSTITUTIONS LESS.

I AM ALWAYS WORRIED SO MUCH ABOUT VOTER APATHY AND VOTER FATIGUE.

WHEN YOU SEE THE SYSTEM NOT WORKING AND YOU SEE SUCH HYPOCRITICAL ACTION AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT, YOU KNOW, IT JUST MAKES PEOPLE -- IT MAKES OUR SKIN CRAWL, FOR LACK OF A BETTER PHRASE.

I FOLLOW AN AGE RANGE OF 29-49, WE ARE MILLENNIALS.

I CANNOT TELL YOU HOW SHOCKING IT WAS TO ME TO LEARN THAT 40 PERCENT OF NONVOTERS ARE MILLENNIALS.

THAT WAS SHOCKING TO ME.

PEOPLE SHOULD CARE AND THEY SHOULD CARE MORE THIS YEAR THAN EVER BECAUSE WE HAVE A PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY> YOUR THOUGHTS, RUTH, ABOUT WOMEN'S BELIEF IN A FAIR ELECTION IF AMY CONEY BARRETT, AS EVERYBODY EXPECTS NOW, WILL BE CONFIRMED BEFORE THE ELECTION AND TAKES PART IN VOTES THAT TRUMP WON IN A HIGHLY CONTESTED ELECTION?

>> ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL MOMENTS IN HEARINGS WAS WHEN SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR ASKED AMY CONEY BARRETT HOW SHE FELT ABOUT VOTER INTIMIDATION AND WHETHER THAT WAS ILLEGAL AND BARRETT REFUSED TO ANSWER THE QUESTION.

SHE SAID IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR HER TO PROJECT -- YOU KNOW, TRUMP IS LITERALLY CALLING OF PEOPLE WITH GUNS TO GO TO THE POLLS AND INTIMIDATE VOTERS.

SHE REFUSED TO SAY WHETHER SHE THOUGHT THAT WAS ILLEGAL.

THEN SENATOR KLOBUCHAR READ HER THE STATUTE SAYING, YES, INDEED, IT IS ILLEGAL TO INTERFERE WITH SOMEONE'S RIGHT TO VOTE AND INTIMIDATE THEM AT THE POLLS.

YOU KNOW, THE REPUBLICANS ARE TRYING TO RAM THROUGH THIS APPOINTMENT.

TRUMP HAS SET POINT BLANK HE WANTS HER ON THE BENCH TO DECIDE THE OUTCOME OF THE SELECTION.

SHE SHOULD ABSOLUTELY ANSWER THAT QUESTION, WHICH IS A FUNDAMENTAL ETHICAL QUESTION FOR A JUDGE: WILL YOU RECUSE YOURSELF?

THE PRESIDENT IS SAYING HE IS APPOINTING YOU FOR THE PURPOSE OF RATIFYING THE ELECTION FOR HIM.

WILL YOU RECUSE YOURSELF?

SHE REFUSES TO ANSWER THAT.

SHE REFUSED TO ANSWER A LOT OF QUESTIONS, BUT IT JUST SHOWS, IT REALLY HIGHLIGHTS HOW ILLEGITIMATE THIS RUSH TO APPOINT, YOU KNOW, IN THE LAST DAYS REMAINING BEFORE AN ELECTION REALLY IS.

AS RINA POINTED OUT, SO HYPOCRITICAL GIVEN THAT THE REPUBLICANS WERE UNIFIED IN THEIR POSITION 11 MONTHS OUT FROM AN ELECTION THAT IT WAS OUTRAGEOUS TO ALLOW OBAMA TO MAKE THE APPOINTMENT OF MERRICK GARLAND.

YOU KNOW, I THINK WE ARE ALL ON PINS AND NEEDLES BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

WE'VE NEVER HAD AN ELECTION LIKE THIS, NEVER HAD A PRESIDENT LIKE THIS.

I THINK IT'S ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE THAT WE COULD LOSE OUR DEMOCRACY.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR PEOPLE TO DO ABOUT THAT RIGHT NOW APART FROM ARGUING ABOUT WHO WAS THE ONE TO TRACK THE PRESIDENT OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE IF HE WILL NOT CONCEDE, WHICH IS ALMOST FUNNY IF IT WERE NOT SO TRAGIC ARGUMENT THAT'S GONE ON WITH THE JOINT CHIEFS -- WE ARE NOT DOING IT, IS IT THE WHITE HOUSE JANITOR THAT TAKES TRUMP OUT IF HE LOSES, PEOPLE HAVE DEVOTED.

>> HADLEY, YOUR FINAL THOUGHTS AND THEN ELEANOR.

>> THE PROCESS WE ARE SEEING RIGHT NOW TO NOMINATE AND CONFIRM A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE IS TOTALLY LEGITIMATE AND MORE AND MORE AMERICANS ARE COMING TO THE POINT OF VIEW IF YOU FOLLOW THE PULLING OVER THE COURSE OF DAYS IN OCTOBER, ESPECIALLY DURING THE HEARINGS, AND MORE AMERICANS ARE GETTING TO KNOW JUDGE BARRETT.

WE HAVE SEEN AN INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO THINK SHE SHOULD BE CONFIRMED, NOW 48 PERCENT OF ALL VOTERS THINK SHE SHOULD BE CONFIRMED AND 31 PERCENT SAY NO, THERE WAS INCREASES AMONG DEMOCRATS, REPUBLICANS, INDEPENDENTS AND ALL VOTERS WITH REGARD TO THAT.

I'M HOPEFUL SHE WILL BE CONFIRMED SOON AND THAT WE WILL, YOU KNOW, MOVE TOGETHER FOR WHAT IS A COUNTRY WITH NINE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES AND A FAIR AND FREE ELECTIONS PROCESS.

>> WELL, I DO HAVE CONCERNS , FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN SHE SAYS SHE WILL NOT RECUSE HERSELF.

WHEN I THINK ABOUT IT, WE HAVE A 6-3 SUPREME COURT.

SHE WOULD NOT BE THE DECIDING VOTE ANYWAY, SO I'M NOT SURE IT MATTERS WHETHER SHE WOULD RECUSE HERSELF WHEN IT GETS DOWN TO THE LAST EFFORTS HERE.

I AM CONVINCED THAT WOMEN ARE GOING TO DECIDE THE SELECTION.

HEY DECIDED THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

THEY ARE MUCH MORE TURNED OFF BY TRUMP'S ACTIONS, MUCH LESS HIS POLICIES, THAN ANY SINGLE GROUP.

AND THEY ARE BEING LED BY WHITE WOMEN TO WHOM I SAY THANK YOU.

E ARE FOLLOWING YOUR LEADERSHIP.

>> THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH.

GREAT OPINIONS, GREAT THOUGHTS.

CERTAINLY, A LOT TO LEARN BETWEEN NOW AND WHENEVER THE SELECTION IS DECIDED.

THAT IS IT FOR THIS EDITION.

PLEASE FOLLOW US ON TWITTER, INSTAGRAM, AND FACEBOOK.

LEASE VISIT OUR WEBSITE, www.PBS.org/TOTHECONTRARY.

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>>>FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR SEE AN ONLINE EPISODE OF "TO THE CONTRARY," PLEASE VISIT OUR PBS WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.