Letús talk about shooting dogs.

Yes, actually, Iúm going to frame this in a more high minded way.

Letús talk about the vice presidential sweepstakes.

You know, Trump has to pick a running mate and Kristi Noem was in the running here.

Is she finished in politics?

JONATHAN KARL: I think sheús done.

JEFFREY GOLDBERG: You think sheús done?

JONATHAN KARL: Yes.

I was just in South Dakota this week, and -- JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Stop bragging all the time.

Go on.

Yes.

Iúm a national political reporter.

JONATHAN KARL: I mean, even people you think might be inclined to support her were a little horrified by the whole display.

JEFFREY GOLDBERG: I want to show you one thing.

This is from her -- itús not an apology towards something else entirely, but I want you to watch this just for one minute.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Mike Pence do the right thing or the wrong thing on January 6th?

GOV.

KRISTI NOEM (R-SD): I donút talk in hypotheticals.

The law has changed.

That situation will never happen again because the law has been changed, so I donút answer hypothetical questions.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Itús not a hypothetical.

Iúm just asking you -- KRISTI NOEM: It is, because itúll never happen again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, but what he did that day.

KRISTI NOEM: You know, looking back that day, I wasnút in the situation.

I wasnút, didnút have the information he had.

You know, I just think that Mike Pence today is making the wrong decision by not endorsing President Trump.

JEFFREY GOLDBERG: I found this interesting because of the debate over what constitutes a hypothetical, but I also found it interesting because her answer on Pence is well within the mainstream of anyone whoús considering themselves to be a serious candidate for the vice president.

JONATHAN KARL: By the way, I asked that exact same question, slightly different worded of Tom Cotton over the weekend.

JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Yes.

JONATHAN KARL: And he actually gave me an answer, which is that it was not constitutional, which means Tom Cotton, you can take him off your list of potential Trump running mate.

JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Is that really - - are you dead serious about that?

PETER BAKER: Yes.

Thatús the one most important qualification, right?

He has to pick somebody who will do what Mike Pence wouldnút do.

Mike Pence -- JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Well, the law has been changed.

So, itús -- PETER BAKER: I know.

But the point is, are you loyal enough to do what I want you to do?

And he found that Mike Pence, as loyal as he was for three years, 360 days, or whatever it was, and then at the last moment says, no, sorry, thereús a line beyond which I cannot cross.

JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Why did Cotton say it?

JONATHAN KARL: Oh, well, I think -- I mean - - yes, I mean, itús pretty outrageous, the idea that one human being can determine the outcome of a presidential, and even the Tom Cotton will defend Trump on a lot of things, not on that.

And Tom Cotton has also not been out there aggressively saying that the election was stolen through rigged voting machines, et cetera.

But, look, Trump has a very clear test for this.

And itús not just what Pence did but the more important thing is do you agree with him that the election was stolen in 2020?

And will you and make it clear that you will only accept one result in 2024, and thatús a Trump victory?

VIVIAN SALAMA: And someone whoús really a contender for the vice pre to be Trumpús running mate, Senator Tim Scott of North Carolina said, you know -- South Carolina, sorry, yes, South Carolina.

Iúm from New York, so sometimes the Carolinas merge in my head.

So -- JEFFREY GOLDBERG: We love both of them here in Washington.

VIVIAN SALAMA: Yes, we do love both.

So, he was also on the Sunday shows last week and refused to answer the question.

And that is something that, of course, over and over again.

JEFFREY GOLBERG: So, Elaina, you cover a lot of these potential candidates.

Who are you imagining is in the front ranks right now?

Let me go -- ELAINA PLOTT CALABRO: Iúm going to say J.D.

Vance.

I mean, that over the past three months has been the name Iúve heard most consistently because itús not just Trump sort of entertaining it.

People around him really want it to be J.D.

Vance.

JEFFREY GOLDBERG: What is it about J.D.

Vance that is so attractive to Trump?

ELAINA PLOTT CALABRO: They believe heús a fighter, true believer.

Like, you know, I donút know how to say it more bluntly or plainly than that.

JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Right.

JONATHAN KARL: I would add Doug Burgum to that list -- JEFFREY GOLDBERG: The governor of -- JONATHAN KARL: -- of North Dakota.

JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Not South Dakota, North Dakota.

JONATHAN KARL: North Dakota has a lot of money.

Trump likes him.

Heús tall, but heús not too tall.

I mean, itús kind of fits the part for Trump.

And heús never -- unlike Vance, heús actually never said a word that I can find critical of Donald Trump.

JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Right, because Vance used to be.

I mean, famously in The Atlantic, he wrote a piece condemning Donald Trump years ago.

ELAINA PLOTT CALABRO: But I also say Vance on Ukraine aid and his opposition to it has been just absolutely resolute on that.

So, I think Donald Trump Jr. in particular and his team -- JONATHAN KARL: Thatús with his opposition to Ukraine aid.

ELAINA PLOTT CALABRO: Absolutely.

JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Okay.

So, weúve come to the conclusion in Washington that shooting a dog can really damage your chances of national office.