(bright music) - [Announcer] This is a production of PBS Charlotte.

(bright music ends) - This week on "Un-Spun," Trump's first 100 days, he's signing executive orders, and closing the borders, laying off federal workers, cutting off federal funding, and ticking off federal judges.

Change is what the president promised in his first 100 days, but is it too much too soon?

And what about the media's first 100 days?

Does more access to Trump than Biden mean more balance or more bias?

We'll talk about it with political analyst, Chuck Todd.

Plus I'll count down the top five things politicians will not tell you about the media.

In today's America, welcome to the spin game.

Believe me, I know.

I'm Pat McCrory.

When I was governor and mayor, I played the spin game.

I was played by the spin game.

But aren't we all done being spun?

Let's take the spin out of the whirlwind, here on "Un-Spun."

Good evening, and thanks for joining us, and welcome to "Un-Spun," a show that tells you what politicians are thinking, but not saying.

Ever since the early days of FDR and the new deal, we've been measuring new presidents by what happens during their first 100 days in office, both the good and the bad.

Reagan negotiated the release of American hostages from Iran on day one, and survived an assassination attempt on day 69.

JFK's failed invasion of Cuba was on day 87.

Ford's pardon of Nixon came on day 31.

But President Trump says nothing quite compares to his first 100 days.

(crowd cheering) - And we're here tonight in the heartland of our nation to celebrate the most successful first 100 days of any administration in the history of our country.

And that's according to many, many people.

- Trump says, the media can't ignore the slowing of illegal border crossings to near zero.

And the polls show that shows support for shrinking the size of government, and reducing government waste.

But despite those early wins, the White House found out very quickly that you can't win 'em all when Trump started talking about tariffs.

- We're gonna have so much money coming in from tariffs.

Tariffs on pharmaceuticals.

Tariffs on steel.

Car tariffs.

Hundreds of billions of dollars in tariffs.

Substantial tariffs.

10% tariffs.

25% tariffs.

50% tariffs.

- World leaders are trying to figure out how to respond to President Trump's attempt to reshape the global economy.

How are average Americans likely to feel the impact of this?

- Higher prices.

Now, the president of the United States is saying, "No, that was a bad deal.

"It hurt Americans.

"We're gonna go in a different direction."

- Yeah, president Trump didn't have much of a choice, when new tariffs sent the stock market into a nose dive, along with his own approval ratings.

And that's when President Trump's first 100 days started looking more like his worst 100 days.

So what about the next 100 days?

Will the White House bounce back, or is the honeymoon over?

Joining us now to talk about Trump's wins and losses so far, is one of our favorite guests here at "Un-Spun," Chuck Todd, he's the former chief political analyst for NBC News, and longtime host of "Meet the Press," who's covered the White House for NBC during the Obama Administration.

And Chuck's recently relaunched his political podcast called "The Chuck Toddcast."

Chuck, it's great to see you again, and always great to have you here on "Un-Spun."

- Pat, always a pleasure.

I always enjoy our conversation.

- You know, I'm curious to ask you, in Trump's 100 days, which stories do you think weren't covered enough by the media?

- Well, and again, you know, you and I were just joking about this one.

I don't know what "the media" is these days, meaning like, when we say "the media," right, there's, I think, I think what you're referring to, and I'm referring to of our generation, the, you know, the major broadcasters "Times," "Post," things like that, that might be only 20 or 30% of the entire media landscape anymore.

Right?

'Cause you have the amplifiers, partisan amplifiers, or podcasts, and YouTubes.

You got people like me who have gone independent, people like yourself who are independent operators.

So, but in general, here's what I would say, right, it's almost, I think you have to put it all together, and you say to yourself, "What's broken through?"

I think two stories have broken through the most, and that is likely the border, and the various efforts to deal with the border, whether it's lawsuits, and obviously the tariffs.

So if you were to ask me what's got, what hasn't gotten enough coverage, I would say number one is Ukraine and Russia, right?

The failed attempts there to get that ceasefire, the struggle with that.

I think that's, that to me, and I may be speaking for myself because I'm really worried about that situation for Ukraine.

But that's the story I feel like that has gotten the least amount of coverage and attention.

It's there if you look for it, but it is not one A and one B, which arguably tariffs and the border have become.

- Is that maybe why media's not covering it, because they don't have the funds to cover overseas wars nowadays?

- You know, that's fair point.

- Compared to Vietnam and Walter Cronkite.

- W don't have the...

"We."

Listen to me.

NBC's not spending the same amount of money it did to cover this war that they did three years ago, and they're not alone.

This is not an an NBC thing, right?

This is just the truth.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

What about some stories that have been over-covered?

(laughing) 'Cause there's a new stories every single day.

- Yeah.

I mean, I will tell you, I think there's a lot of wasted time about Trump third term.

I find that to be a manufactured story by journalists.

Like, there's plenty of stories that Trump manufactures as distractions, and he's really good at it.

I actually think it's a media obsession.

You know, I always say this about Trump.

If you're a journalist, and you wanna mess around with a news cycle, Donald Trump's a great interview, right?

Because you can ask, the thing with Trump is, he'll accept any premise.

I mean, I've joked, I'm pretty sure I could say to him, "You know, Mr. President, "isn't it strange that Japan is not a state?

"We won that war.

"We dropped two nuclear weapons."

And he'd probably say, "You know, you're right."

And then what headline could you create?

You know.

"Donald Trump wonders why Japan isn't "an American, you know, stronghold."

Does he really gonna do it?

- No.

It's something he hadn't thought about?

Probably not.

But you can plant, it is far too easy to plant ideas in his head that he'll accept the premise of in the given moment, that I think sometimes journalists are bit irresponsible about it, to be frank.

- So during the first 100 days, there's this perception, and it, and I need to find out if it's reality or not, about the battle between the White House Press Corps and the Trump White House.

Is it any different from the first Trump term, or is it really different this time?

- Well, I would say you have a press office.

In the Trump first term, they were take, they were taking incoming, right?

It was a fire hose.

They were reacting, they weren't prepared.

This one is certainly prepared to engage, and they have a, they have a plan, but I don't know if they're interested in disseminating information to anybody outside their own supportive media.

And I think they've made a mistake here.

I think they're in a, I think the reason why their poll numbers are so low, is they're trying so hard to own the libs all the time, and they've sort of turned the White House press shop into a YouTube, a YouTube show, if you will.

An almost like an extension of Charlie Kirk or something like that.

And I think the base loves it, right?

And I think it can create, and there's a whole bunch of people who love Trump already that love it.

But I actually think it's, I think it's been an ineffective way to communicate to people that aren't Trump acolytes.

And this White House still hasn't figured out how to talk to people that aren't, that aren't people that would go to a rally.

- What do you think about the generational change right now in the Trump White House?

You've got a, what, a 28, 29-year-old press secretary?

You've got a 40-year-old vice president.

Is that changing things here?

We've got the oldest president we've ever had, I believe, or he and Biden are about the same age.

- Right.

- But there's a generational change, not just among the media, but about who's being covered also, is that changing things based upon the first 100 days?

A feisty - Well, I mean, I, - a feisty White House press secretary, I might add.

- Sure.

You know, who was also a candidate for office herself.

Right?

Once.

And I wonder how much, you know, we haven't often had somebody in the press secretary slot who at one time ran for office.

Right?

That's a different skillset than pairing stuff back and forth.

There are times that I often think she sees herself as a candidate rather than as a spokesperson.

- I've gotta ask you about the battles within the media during this first 100 days.

I remember you had your own editorial comment, which was extremely risky for you on NBC during "Meet the Press," where you made some very strong comments in the past.

We just had CBS anchor during "60 Minutes" make very strong comments.

- Right.

- Is this all about Trump, or is it about changing the media?

- Oh, I think it's the, it's the changing media.

I mean, look, Trump is just exploiting the relationship between journalists and their corporate parents.

And that's what he, you know, look, Trump has always believed you should pressure owners in order to get the outcome that you want.

Whether it's a sports team.

Notice when he weighed in on Shadeur Sanders, he addressed owners.

He didn't address GMs, he didn't address coaches, he addressed owners.

He believes that, you know, when he was mad about "The Washington Post" in his first term, he went right at Jeff Bezos.

Right?

So he likes to deal with the owners.

So the point is that I just think that's exploited tension that was already building.

Right?

You know, there's been this, look, do the news divisions need to make money, or do the news divisions need to just not lose money?

Is the corporate parent going to have the legal back of its news division or not?

And I think what we've seen this year, is it you had all, you know, these media companies who are very nervous about government regulation, and President Trump's comfort with using government to essentially get involved with business decisions?

an attitude, by the way that I'm old enough to remember, wasn't called conservative.

But I think it is really, he's exploiting the tension that always has existed between the journalists and the corporate parent.

I think right now, being a, being a news division under the umbrella of a publicly traded company, is very precarious and very troublesome.

- In the final 30 seconds here.

Does Congress even matter anymore regarding how we govern?

And also media coverage?

- So it's funny you say that.

- Because it's all about Trump.

- I completely agree.

And I think the lack of, you know, some of this is members of Congress are certainly trying to duck the media.

They don't want a lot of attention.

'Cause Republicans, you and I both know this, you're a, last I checked, you're a old free trader.

Right?

And there's a lot of free trader Republicans up there that don't like this tariff stuff, but are afraid of saying negative things to the base of the Republican party that will then bite them in the you know what.

So, I do think...

Here's my hope.

History shows us this, Pat.

Whenever we have too much of one thing, the country suddenly wants something else.

So look at what Canada did.

They went from, you know, this sort of, you know, Mr. Charisma, Mr.

Personality and Justin Trudeau, who in some ways probably was a little too slick, to a guy who's a technocrat banker.

I wonder if all of this focus on the executive branch sobers up the American public, and sobers up the next Congress to say, "You know what?

"Congress is Article one for a reason in the Constitution."

And Congress is an equal branch of government, and they have a lot more say so on the purse, than you might believe, watching the way this White House interacts with this Congress.

So I wonder if we're at the, we're at a low of Congress sort of being involved in the governing of the country.

I wonder if that starts to change- - Well, Chuck, I'll call you in the next 100 days, and we'll examine, will Congress make more of a difference during the next a hundred days of the Trump White House and the media?

I appreciate you again being on the show, and you bring great insight.

I really appreciate it.

- You got it.

- Next up, PBS Charlotte's Jeff Sonier takes "Un-Spun" on the street asking, "What do voters think of Trump's first 100 days?

- Yeah.

Success or failure probably depends on whether you voted for Trump or against Trump.

Supporters say the President's doing exactly what he promised to do, and opponents say that's the problem.

He's doing more harm than good.

The first 100 days of the Trump administration.

Do you like what you see, or do you not like what you see?

- I don't like what I see, but it was expected.

I'm a little surprised at the lack of pushback from the other branches of government to allow it to happen in the land of the free and home of the brave.

- So I'm quite disappointed.

I think it's been a success, because I like his stand on immigration.

Our father immigrated from Italy many years ago, well, in 1920.

And there were legal ways to come to America.

And there always have been.

- What I would say is, it's, you know, like putting a timestamp on somebody's four years, is slightly, you know, it's a wrong, you know, measuring stick there.

Because the moment you say a hundred days, that means, are we saying everything needs to be completed in a hundred days?

There's been a start of a few things like the tariffs that we saw where, you know, they know they were pulled back.

- With the tariffs, I think some of them are a little too strict.

I think he was expecting too much.

He's got a very short period of time, and a lot he wishes to accomplish.

- [Jeff Sonier] Agreed?

- Yes.

- Well, he claimed that he was going to do certain things, and he's been doing it ad nauseum.

- Yeah.

A hundred days may or may not be a fair measure of success or failure in the White House, but most agree that what they've seen so far, they're expecting to see a lot more of over the next four years.

Pat.

- I'll tell you, Jeff, that's great feedback.

So what do you think about the issue?

Let us know by tagging PBS Charlotte when you post on social media about this week's show.

Let us know what you like, and don't like about tonight's program.

(rousing music) All right.

Tonight on our "Un-Spun" countdown, the top five things politicians will not tell you about the media.

Let's start out with number five.

Number five.

Politicians are often the anonymous sources.

Yep.

When you hear a media member say, "We hear from a high public official "on what the inside scoop is."

Guess who that high public official is?

It's the politician.

Number four, "Politicians often "entertain together with the media."

Yep.

Politicians are always critical of the media.

But in Washington, DC it's a small town.

They party together too.

Number three, politicians love TV appearances.

There's a long line of politicians in office calling up CNN, and PBS, and NBC and CBS, "Can I be on your talk show?"

Number two, the politicians, all politicians, including myself, think if you talk to the media, and are friendly with the media, sooner or later the media will like you.

It doesn't work that way.

And number one, almost all politicians after they retire want to go work for the media.

(rousing music) PBS Charlotte's Jeff Sonier joins me now for "Un-Spun" one-on-one.

- Okay.

So I'm watching the top five.

You really wanted to work in the media, huh?

- I knew it was an option afterwards, 'cause I'd had several media people approach me, and then NBC called me, and then I'm really appreciative of WTVI calling me.

- This feels more like, "Be careful what you ask for."

(laughing) - Well, especially not knowing you were the guy.

You know, my old nemus reporter back when I was mayor.

I can't let go of you.

- Well, here we are, we're stuck together.

- It just pulls me back again like the godfather of three.

- We're stuck here together.

Hey, let me ask you about the media.

You and Chuck talked about this during the interview.

How much has the media changed from your point of view, from when you were in the mayor's office, when I was asking you questions, to the governor's office, to what we're seeing today at the White House?

- The main change is coverage.

There's not a lot of media resources to cover the news.

Most of media now gives opinion because it's cheaper.

But when I was mayor and city council member, we literally, and you knew this when working for SOC and other stations, our city council chamber would be full of media.

- [Jeff Soniers] Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

- We'd have six networks there.

Now, there is very little coverage of local politics.

When I was governor, it was really the last major years of "The Charlotte Observer" having a lot of reporters, and the AP reporters.

They would be very, very active.

Especially with scrutiny against me.

Now you see very few reporters even in Raleigh.

So it's changed dramatically.

And new media has taken over.

- So when you're not face, so when you're not face-to-face with a reporter like it used to be, how does that change how you deal with the public?

What you say, and how you, you know, how you massage issues?

- I don't think that's changed much.

Because the fact of the matter is, it's made it easier for zooming.

I used to have to go to Wilmington to get on Wilmington TV, or to Asheville to get on Asheville TV, or Charlotte and Raleigh.

'Cause we had three or four different major networks or viewing areas.

Now you can do it all by Zoom.

So in a way, COVID changed media coverage because Zoom became acceptable.

- Yeah.

And we all kind of accepted the fact that we can't be face-to-face.

So it's okay if you're asking your questions from afar, over an online- - Gets people comfortable with it.

In fact, just having Chuck Todd here by Zoom is much easier than he having to fly here, and me having to fly up to New York or DC.

- Yeah.

Well, let me ask you about coverage in the first 100 days versus the rest of an administration.

- Yeah.

- You know, is there a honeymoon?

Do you get a break from the media?

Does it get worse as time goes on?

How does, how did it work in your experience?

And how do you think it generally works?

- I never had a honeymoon as governor.

Believe me, from the very first day I was being attacked.

But I gotta say, most politicians feel that way.

- [Jeff Soniers] Mm-hmm.

- But I'm saying the truth.

- [Jeff Soniers] Right.

- It was me being attacked on the first day.

- Mm-hmm.

- I think some people get a honeymoon and others don't.

But now with new media, and a much more diverse media, from conservative to liberal, to libertarian, even overseas media by Zoom, I think the days of honeymoon are over.

Because conflict causes cliques.

- And I get the sense that a narrative is formed in those early days.

And it's tough to change the narrative, I would think from the point of view of an elected official.

- Well actually now the media is much more segregated by narrative.

So one person's narrative, I mean, I cut on one channel on TV or a podcast, and it's a whole different news story than being covered on someone else's.

So the narrative used to be set by the three major networks.

Now it's tougher to set a narrative actually.

- Mm-hmm.

So at the White House, you've got, you're coming out of a presidency, Biden where he didn't do a lot of interaction with the media, didn't do many interviews, everything was scripted.

Trump is the most unscripted president we probably have.

Does that change the balance of coverage?

Does it change the bias of coverage?

Does it make a difference?

- It's like 180 degrees difference between Biden and Trump.

And I think Trump has the skill to work with the media, but he also has one of the faults of the media, or of politicians, which I had.

And that is, you think if you have more exposure to the media, the media will start liking you for letting you come into the Oval Office.

Actually, I saw with Biden, and I also saw this with Governor Cooper.

It was very tough to get to Governor Cooper.

So media was even nicer to them so they could get the rare interview with Governor Cooper, or also with Joe Biden.

So there's kind of almost reverse psychology.

If you're too accessible, the media actually can get meaner toward ya.

- Yeah.

If you're easy to get to, there's no reason to be nice to you.

- There's no threatening.

- [Jeff Soniers] Mm-hmm.

- You're not gonna be threatened by being kicked outta the office.

I mean, just this week he went on ABC, and did a primetime interview.

- Mm-hmm.

- But the difference with Trump, he's not afraid to jump on the media.

And as I often say too is, doing a live interview versus a taped interview makes a big difference to the politician.

- Here's another change.

You've got, you've got Trump tweeting in the middle of the night, and a lot of time that creates the next morning's headlines.

- [Pat] Yeah.

- You've got reporters whose stories on X and Twitter get more eyeballs than the the stuff they're posting on- - [Pat] Right.

- You know, in the media or in print.

So how does that change the story?

And how does that change, you know, from a politician's point of view to be more effective?

- Well now with the internet, media headlines can change like that.

- Right.

- When I was mayor and governor, you had to call up "The News & Observer," or the AP the night before to make sure the headline was different.

The next morning, you didn't know what the headline was gonna be that morning, or you had to wait till the six o'clock and 11 o'clock news.

And I would call you, Jeff at WSOC in the old days and go, "Hey Jeff, I think that story's unfair.

"You need to change it for 11."

Well now, even in local news covers, there's four or five and six news coverage, and 10, 11 news coverage.

- [Jeff Soniers] Yeah.

- And it's on the internet.

So it can change within a minute.

But the danger is, all these stories last for such a small period of time now.

The news cycle is much shorter than the old days.

The old days of what?

Five to 10 years ago.

- Yeah.

And and last question, kinda stemming from your interview with Chuck Todd.

Two stories that kind of popped were the immigration and tariffs.

Can a president or a governor do too much in the first 100 days?

Does it, I know Reagan was credited with having a successful first 100 days, 'cause he focused on one thing, the economy.

Do you wanna focus on one thing, or is it, you're trying to do as much as you can as fast as you can?

- I think Trump's making a mistake I made as governor.

I changed like 10 to 15 things.

- [Jeff Soniers] Hmm.

- Governor Martin was much smarter than I was.

He had three goals during his eight years, and he met the three goals.

I had 15 to 20 goals.

And by the way, I met over 15 of 'em - [Jeff Soniers] Mm-hmm.

- Of the 20.

But I stepped on a lot of toes.

And when you do that, your negatives go up.

And that's what's happening with Trump right now.

- Yeah.

Well, you know, 15 outta 20 ain't bad.

(laughing) - I'd be a multimillionaire in baseball.

- Thanks, governor.

- Thank you.

(rousing music) - "60 Minutes" may be the most famous news show in TV history, but now it's making news for all the wrong reasons.

The host of "60 Minutes," Scott Pelley is calling out his non-news bosses, accusing them of interfering with the program stories and interviews for business and political reasons.

It all started when President Trump sued CBS, accusing "60 Minutes" of inappropriate influence of the election by editing its TV interview with Kamala Harris, making Harris look better during the final days of the campaign.

Now, I don't know how the Trump lawsuit will turn out, but I do know first-hand, that what you say on "60 Minutes," isn't always what the audience sees on "60 Minutes."

(clock ticking) When I heard about the Dan River plant having a coal ash spill, my first reaction was, "Wait a minute.

"That plant's been closed for years.

"Why are we having a spill at a plant that's not even open?"

- Tell everybody how much the fine was.

- I don't have that list.

But again- - It was $99,111.

- That's correct.

- Which does not sound like a big fine.

- It wasn't a big fine.

Well, that was me on "60 Minutes" when I was governor, when they edited my interview, cutting off my explanation of why North Carolina coal ash finds were so low.

Well, politicians, including me, know the risk when you're sitting down for a taped interview with "60 Minutes," or meeting with the editorial board of a newspaper, you know that editors can pick and choose what they use and don't use on TV or in print.

That's why so many politicians now choose instead, to appear on a live Sunday talk show, or a podcast online.

A live interview is still risky, but at least there's no editing.

Meanwhile, Paramount, which owns CBS, worries that any bias on their marquee news program could affect their big media merger, which needs government approval.

That's why "60 Minutes" is feeling pressure from Paramount, because Paramount fears payback from the president.

So this Sunday night, when you see that stopwatch tick, tick, ticking, don't ignore all the politicking that's going on in the background, as "60 Minutes" morphs into "Family Feud," or maybe "Let's Make a Deal."

Well, that's the reality as I see it.

I hope you'll come back next week, as we tell you what politicians are thinking, but not saying, right here on "Un-Spun."

Goodnight folks.

(intense upbeat music) (bright music) - [Announcer] A production of PBS Charlotte.