>> ERIC: THERE'S A NEW BOOK OUT FROM ZENITH CITY PRESS ENTITLED "TWIN PORTS TRAINS: THE HISTORIC RAILROADS OF DULUTH AND SUPERIOR."

IT COVERS THE KEY ROLE RAILROADS PLAYED IN THE FIRST CENTURY OF COMMUNITIES IN DULUTH-SUPERIOR HISTORY.

HERE WITH MORE, CO-AUTHOR TONY DIERCKINS, WHO MADE THE DRIVE DOWN I-35 TO JOIN US TONIGHT IN STUDIO.

YOU OPEN THIS BOOK, AND IT'S J.P. MORGAN AND THE MANAGER YIT FAMILY AND JAMES J. HILL AND THE ROCKEFELLERS.

HEAVY HITTERS.

>> BIG PLAYERS IN TOWN.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- IT'S A BIG STORY.

BECAUSE WE'RE TELLING THE STORY NOT OF JUST ONE RAILROAD, LIKE MOST RAILROAD BOOKS.

WE'RE TELLING THE STORY OF OVER 20 DIFFERENT RAILROADS IN ONE COMMUNITY.

THE TWIN PORTS.

SO WE'RE TAKING A DIFFERENT APPROACH HAN MOST RAILROADS TO TELL A DIFFERENT KIND OF STORY, HOW THEY AFFECTED THE DEVELOPMENT OF BOTH COMMUNITIES.

HOW DULUTH HAD THE ADVANTAGE OVER SUPERIOR BECAUSE IT HAD A RAILROAD FOR 15 YEARS BEFORE SUPERIOR.

>> Eric: AND AN INTENSE RIVALRY.

>> YES, UP UNTIL THE NORTHERN PACIFIC CROSSED THE BRIDGE, AS IT WERE.

A LOT OF THIS, YOU CAN SEE HOW MUCH HAS CHANGED.

THE ST. LOUIS RIVER OVER THE YEARS, IT'S GONE FROM THIS COMPLETELY FLALGCOMPLETELY NATUO FULLY INDUSTRIALIZES AND WAS LEFT PROFOUNDLY POLLUTED.

>> Cathy: SO YES, YOU'RE RIGHT, RAILROADS PLAYED A HUGE ROLE IN NORTHEASTERN MINNESOTA.

I MEAN, PROCTOR STILL COMES TO MIND S BEING A RAILROAD TOWN.

>> THEY DESCRIBE IT AS A TOWN BUILT AROUND A RAIL YARD.

AND IT STARTED OUT AS TENTS WITH THE GUYS THAT WERE BUILDING IT.

>> Cathy: AND DO YOU STILL HAVE -- AND OF COURSE YOU KNOW ME.

I LOVE GHOST TOWNS.

WHATEVER HAPPENED TO FOREBAY, MINNESOTA, WAS IT ONE OF THOSE RAILROAD GHOST TOWNS?

>> IT IS FOREBAY, MEANT THE FOREBAY OF THE THOMPSON DAM WHERE ALL THE POWER CAME FROM.

AND THERE WAS AN ACTUAL COMMUNITY OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAD TO MAN THE DAM.

THEIR FAMILIES HAD A SMALL COMMUNITY.

HAD A LITTLE SCHOOL THERE.

AND USED TO TAKE THE TRAIN, THE ORIGINAL LAKE SUPERIOR MISSISSIPPI ONE THROUGH ALONG THE ST. LOUIS RIVER THERE.

AND IT DISAPPEARED ABOUT THE '40s WHEN THEY DID A LITTLE MORE AUTOMATION CAME IN.

>> Eric: I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE VERMILLION GOLD RUSH OF 1885.

I NEVER HEARD OF THAT.

>> IT WAS ACTUALLY IN THE 1860s, THE VERMILLION GROWTH RUSH.

AND IT GAVE DULUTH A LITTLE BIT OF A BOOST BEFORE THE RAILROADS CAME, BUT WHEN THEY FOUND OUT THERE WASN'T MUCH GOLD UP THERE, WE WERE BACK TO, LIKE, JUST BEFORE THE RAILROAD CAME, 14 FAMILIES HUDDLED AT THE BASE OF MINNESOTA POINT.

IN LESS THAN A YEAR AFTER THEY STARTED BUILDING THE RAILROAD, 3100 PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.

>> Eric: SO DID THE RAILROAD BUSINESS KIND OF EBB AND FLOW WITH THE UPS AND DOWNS THE ECONOMY.

>> THE ECONOMY KIND OF EBBED AND FLOWED WITH THE RAILROAD BUSINESS.

YOU CAN TRACK IT.

THE RISE AND FALL IN THE BORDERS EXPANSION OF THE COMMUNITIES.

AS WE GET MORE RAILROADS, THE POPULATIONS GROW.

AS WE GET MORE RAILROADS, AFTER WORLD WAR II, AND THE HIGHWAYS TAKE OVER AND THE INDUSTRIES START TO -- AND BY THE WAY, THE RAILROAD AND THE INDUSTRIES IS WORKING HAND IN GLOVE HERE WITH ALL THIS, HOW THIS -- THE DECLINE, THE ECONOMIC DECLINE AS DULUTH-SUPERIOR BECOMES THE BUCKLE OF THE RUST BELT AND THE INDUSTRIES GO AWAY, AND BY 1907S, WE'RE DOWN TO FOUR RAILROADS, RIGHT?

AND IT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLD NOW.

>> Cathy: AND OF COURSE THEY STILL HAVE THE DMINR, THE DULUTH AND MESABI IRON ORE RAILWAY.

>> CANADIAN NATIONAL.

>> Cathy: OKAY.

>> SO, OR CANADIAN PACIFIC.

I GET THEM MIXED UP A LITTLE BIT.

BECAUSE I SAY I'M NOT THE TRAIN GUY.

MY COAUTHOR JEFF LEMKE IS THE BIG EXPERT ON THE DETAILS.

BUT TODAY, LIKE TODAY'S TRAINS, MY HISTORY GOES BACK DEEPER.

BUT IT'S -- THEY'RE STILL WORKING.

THE ORE DOCKS ARE STILL -- ONE ORE DOCK IS STILL OPERATING.

YOU KNOW, SO THERE'S STILL -- I MEAN, WE STILL HAVE RAIL.

YOU KNOW, POWERING DULUTH AND SUPERIOR.

THIS IS CERTAINLY NOT LIKE IT WAS 100 YEARS AGO.

>> Eric: WILL PEOPLE TAKE THAT PROPOSED TRAIN FROM MINNEAPOLIS TO SUPERIOR AND THEN TO DULUTH.

>> I WOULD HAVE TONIGHT!

I COULD HAVE LANDED AT THE UNION DEPOT, WALKED ACROSS THE STREET, RIGHT, HERE IN ST. PAUL.

MY CAR WAITING FOR ME UP AT THE DEPOT IN DULUTH.

IT WOULD HAVE EEN GREAT.

TOMORROW I'M GOING TO BE AN ZENITH BOOK STORE ON CENTRAL AVENUE IN WEST DULUTH FROM 11:00 TO 1:00 SIGNING THE BOOK.

>> Cathy: AND YOU ACTUALLY TALK ABOUT TRAIN WRECKS IN THERE TOO.

>> OH, WE'VE GOT TRAIN WRECKS, WE'VE GOT FIRES, ALL SORTS OF TRAGEDIES, BUT WE'VE GOT ALL SORTS OF GREAT STORIES TOO, BECAUSE I LIKE TO SAY, I WRITE ABOUT BUOYS AND BRIDGES AND ARCHITECTURE AND PARKS AND TRAINS, BUT I'M ALWAYS WRITING ABOUT PEOPLE.

YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR THE STORY OF THE PEOPLE F DULUTH AND SUPERIOR.

>> Eric: PERFECT FOR