From the WNIN Tri-State Public Media Center in downtown Evansville.

I'm David James and this is Two Main Street.

In this climate of finger pointing, blame and mistrust, we need to take a time out to smell the roses.

So imagine our diverse society as a garden.

Gardens need constant care.

There are weeds, pests, poor soil challenges.

Yes, but the rewards are worth i Radiant blooms, delicious fruits and vegetables and knowing what can thrive from planting just a small seed.

My guests are here to share thei of how we can all grow good by cultivating caring communitie And we'll find out how our audience can plant their seeds to make this a better plac to live, work and grow together.

Bill Hemminger is a food pantry and former chair of the English at the University of Evansville.

He's the editor of a new publica delayed by COVID-19, but now ava Growing Good A Beginner's Guide to Cultivating Caring Communitie It's a collection of stories of regular folks who have rolled up their sleeves to make their community a better The book is published by Indiana University Press.

And on the back cover, this message, "Growing go will help readers of all ages plant seeds of hope and cultivate communities where thrives."

Joining Bill is Dr. Cris Hochwender, who teaches bio at the University of Evansville.

He has been researching evolutio ecology for the past 25 years.

He'll tell us about the native p garden at UEV and other projects both here and abroad.

So gentlemen, welcome to Two Mai after that lengthy intro.

And Bill, let's start with you and you call these essays a smal of those seeking justice for the and the environment.

Wow.

Yeah, that's true.

That's a lot.

But that is that i And there's so many this is just you know, a beginning.

There are so many more examples like this of, you know, activities, opportunities like t that are happening even here in Evansville.

But certainly in, I would show t Midwest as the target area for t But goodness, I mean, even in ou we have this book could have bee totally from Evansville.

Mm hmm.

I know most, a lot of a lot of local people.

Yeah, because there's contributo All right, is true.

Mhmmm.

So I, and there's so many wonder I mean, it's really uplifting to see the work that f and folks are doing.

And there's always new ideas.

And some of the ideas, you know, someday probably won't be there.

And that's okay.

It could be a natural kind of th I think his garden that UE shall stay there forever But you know and some new idea will come up.

Some new project will come up, some new folks will come forward and that's the way it should be.

Now Chris, your essay in the boo focuses on the native plant garden on the UEV campus.

Tell us about that project.

So the native plant garden started in about 2010, and actually it stemmed from a p we were doing out on the Wabash trying to do restoration ecology and planting of native species out there and fighting the floods.

Right.

So the way we've retooled the rivers, we have levees that block water.

And so the places that aren't blocked flood very heavily in th And we tried planting native pla out there a couple of years and, each year there would be this tremendous flood that would wash all of the seed attempts that we So I thought, why not start a sm native plant garden.

And that way we could have seed to pick up and haul out there.

And at the same time, we could have students spending just outside the doors of the science building, seeing native plants, seeing the of insects that come to them.

And so for the last decade, we've been growing more than 100 that have established in this little postage stamp of Yeah.

And you collect those seeds?

We collect those seeds.

We have worked.

Anna Jean Stratman, at the time helped do a research project on And we collected seeds from those milkweeds and g with a change lab that she was orchestrating.

And we grew those seeds and hand native milkweed plants to people who wanted to help the monarch butterfly reproduce here in Southern India I understand the milkweed pods were collected by local students during World W because they were using life pre Thought that was very interestin Yeah, that is a really striking How economical we use to be in t Mm hmm.

The milkweed.

Who would of thought.

Yeah.

Now, also, there was a UEV campus has all kinds of interest on campus too.

And there was a large linden tre that was in the in the circle fo What happened to that?

Well, that was just age.

Right.

It was a beautiful tree and it was a great place for fam And you probably took your famil there as well and let the kids play on the bra And sadly, over time.

They did their best buildings an or whatever you call them, to preserve that to save it, lifting up the, you know, the sagging limbs with rot large stones and so forth.

They really did their best.

David Sellers always been tremen in that front garden and investi What are some other interesting on campus?

Well, you know, there is a whole row along rathe wood of different oak species that have been planted over the And most of those are really big beautiful, mature trees now from shingle oak to shoemaker oak to northern red oak and chinkapin oak.

There's just all sorts of beautiful oak trees And there's a well, I think it's dying, but a royal Right?

In front of.

And again see this is the differ between Bill and I.

He loves all plants.

I only love the natives.

This is, well, the biggest royal polonius in front of the high school, Mem Memorial High School.

Yeah.

And it, oh God, it has these fan purple trumpets.

It is beautiful.

It is a beauty.

I think it's dying on our campus Or your campus.

I'm retired, it's not mine.

Now, let's learn more about my g Bill Hemminger and Cris Hochwend Now Cris, I'll start with you.

Where did you grow up Cris?

I grew up in Northwest Iowa.

And so for me, diversity was loo things like soybean and corn.

Right, it was it was a pretty depopulated area There literally was what was called the conservation which wasn't even 50 acres of replanted woods.

So coming to Evansville, I feel very spoiled with the div we have here, to have an ancient 5 minutes away from the university in Wessleman Wessleman Woods, fantastic.

Just phenomenal.

And so, yeah, I'm lucky to be he And of course, I forgot about th UEV movie campus also is home to a lot of squirrels, too.

Well, naturally.

So is the rest of the town.

But so are they protected the squirrels on campu or are they just?

They need protection.

Certainly well-fed.

But what I like is that there are also flying sq so the native flying squirrel is also on campu I did not know that.

And I wouldn't have known that e except that, Kristi Hochwender, the good Dr. Hochwender as most of us refer t That's his wife who is in the English department Oh, okay.

She was a good doctor.

She was working late one evening and she and Tony Beavers saw this little rodent like animal running around and she caught it and put it in one of her purses and brought home to me and I was like, oh, t must be a sugar glider or someth And it turned out to be our flyi squirrel, which happens around h Wow.

So.

So they're on our campus.

How did she capture this flying Honestly, I'm very impressed with, with her somehow getting this squirrel into her p We didn't know the number of pur she's got, though she started throwing the purses at the thing.

One of them caught it, who knows.

That's a story in its How you capture a flying squirre with a purse.

Okay, well, that's a good one.

Okay.

Now, did you always like bugs an growing up, Cris?

I really did.

I remember being five years old you know, just from a working class family and my mom and my brother and si and I headed out for this month long vacation in a station wagon And we drove all over the west and saw Yellowstone and got out Hood.

And when we got into California as part of the visit, saw all of this ocean invertebrate diversity and that was at five years old is really when the light was tur And I figured I wanted to spend seeing all the amazing things that are out there in the world, in the natural world.

Now, your specialty is restorati ecology.

What exactly is that?

Well, it's really trying to work to re-establish what used to be you know, the best, the best possibility is to have something like Wesseleman Woods, where the natural system is still in place.

But because of what we've done to the prairies to create farmla for eliminating forests, to agai either grow farmlands or maybe t cities, we're actually in a plac where we need to think about how do we replace those lost com And the way to do that is to think about the genetic di that comes with each species and and bringing multiple species into the community and then hopi and planning to start to re-esta the herbivores and then the pred of those herbivores.

Now Bill, of course, Cris The Ha you grew up in Ohio, is that rig Yeah, I didn't realize it was a We've got a hawkeye and a buckey Okay.

I guess I'm a buckeye.

Only because you're forcing us t But I read that you grew up in a like Abe Lincoln?

I didn't grow up in a log cabin.

Oh, I grew up on a farm in north west of Cleveland a lit But my wife and I, when we first got married, we lived in a log cabin in South And it was an ancient, it was 150 years old.

It was kind of rough in a lot of but it was absolutely beautiful.

So what motivated you to move in cabin?

It was beautiful and I needed a place to be and we could afford it, so we di And I moved out when I took this job or a job at because I had a Ph.D. and it doesn't go very far when you're in a log cabin.

So I looked for a job and I got one, but unfortunately where we lived, so we had to mov But I do regret that and if I read a poem today, one it will be about that very preci Now, you're a former chair of the English Department at the University of Evansville and understand you've traveled to Africa on several occasions, even written a book called Afric What was that book about?

My experiences there, I've lived in about half a dozen places in but I started as a Peace Corps v in Senegal, which is West Africa And it was so, I mean, it was a it was very difficult in some wa I came home weighing 110 pounds, but it was a great experience in so many other ways, so that j you know, kindled a desire to kn And then later when I had a teac and so forth, and I could apply for grants, I did several times.

And actually it won four Fulbrig to go to various African countri both to teach and to do research and ended up taking well, two of Well, three of them really.

So then we spent a year; by that you know, I was married and then the first the first Ful I had, we brought our daughter a She was three months old or something like that.

We were in Madagascar, that crazy, wonderful, sad islan It's sad because so many terribl have been happening lately.

But we were in Madagascar for a while, came back then I got another Fulbright lat in Cameroon, which is wonderfully beautiful and sad to I mean, it's, it's an African st I mean physically beautiful.

The people are so generous and the politics are so disgusti I mean, it's is such an African But anyway, so we are we have ha of experiences in Africa.

And of course, you enjoy the flo and fauna of these locations.

Oh, man yeah, but I loved it even in Senegal.

In Senegal where I was, my village was on the Senegal Ri And the next it's the Sahara Des I mean, it really was a desert.

So we got maybe nine inches, eight inches of rain a y And yet these people considered farmers, agriculturalists.

I don't know what we say in Engl but which is kind of unfortunate because you had about three mont you get your whole year worth of stuff out of the ground But I fell in love with the plac with baobab trees, you know, the ones with the gian balls like this, so they're fant And, and of course, there isn't much else there, but it's, it's so beautiful, so quiet.

The stars at night.

Oh, my God.

I mean, there is no pollution while there is when the Sahara d to blow in your face.

But because we get these horribl wind storms, you know.

But besides that it was great.

Subsistence farmers?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Sure.

Now, things are a little differe That's oh, wow, 40 years ago, or at least almost 40 years ago.

But they dammed up the Senegal R and the benefit of that is that they can irrigate.

And so this entire area now is a whole lot greener.

I've been back a couple of times over the years.

So now tell us about you're a food bank manager.

What's that?

Well, not a food bank.

I run the food pantry.

Okay.

At Patchwork Central.

Yes.

Yeah, I'm one of the chapters he has to do with Patchwork.

And I was just at Tri-State Food this morning.

I used to be on the board there, but I'm not anymore.

But in any case, yeah, I, I run the food pantry.

So the food bank is a place in t that collects the food, as you k and that it doles it out to us in the food pantries.

And there's seven in a consortiu but there's about 25 other food pantries in the Evansville area.

And it's kind of as and again, one of the first chapter in this has to do with the food bank, the bigger place in Indianapolis And John, the author of that one this enormous operation.

But I think here it's something like here in Evansvill Glenn.

Glenn Roberts.

Roberts, sure says it's about I it's like 10 million pounds a ye Are, are is that right?

It's inc They serve 33 counties.

Yeah, I know that.

Three states and they have a hug on Lynch Road now.

Yeah.

They moved from their smaller of in, in really in the city to thi Jacob's area.

Yeah.

And of course we talked to Glenn Roberts on th about food insecurity in this ar And it's incredible.

Like 1 out of 8 adults in Indian a food insecure and 1 in 6 children food insecur Now the community garden.

Tell me about the community gard Well, okay, now this is on, on land owned by and now I guess it's about ten y there were two pieces of land, you know, right alongside the Lloyd Expressway and close to the... What is it soccer fields now?

Yeah.

Soccer fields.

And behind the old armory.

Okay.

Old National Guard Armory.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

That's what we called it.

Anyway, so a couple of colleague and I at the time and this is about ten years ago said, "Jeez, you know, why can't we develop one of these hunks of land"?

They're about as big as a footba Each one of these at least as a, as a garden.

And I approached the president at the time, he said, "Sure."

So anyway, this idea kind of, there was a morphing process.

At first, we just some of us farmed with our little plots and we did that kind of thing.

And that was more or less successful, I think less And then we finally got to the i of just doing one garden and eve pitching in and being part of th both part of the process of selecting seeds.

And but also then, planting toge weeding together and harvesting But together is a big thing.

So Now, Krista and your students he with the community garden?

Oh, yeah.

So there, there have been people in the pa from the department who've been interns and worked w And his wife works with.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So again, the good doctor Hochwender, invests her summer with doing the food garde What about the harvest at the fo at the community garden?

Well it comes, you know, all along you know, so we put in Well, they're ready soon and you know, beets and so forth They're ready in June or even earlier than that.

So there's an ongoing harvest.

And right there I have about 20 names on my email list of folks who are associated with the gard So some colleagues at the univer some are students at the univers We've had, I've had, what do you An intern.

The university has sponsored an intern every year except this and the year before.

So up until recently, we've also had an intern, which has be There are some neighbors that he among other activities I work with, with Aur which is a homeless.

He works at the homeless in town So we've had some homeless peopl come out there.

I used to teach English as a second language and we alwa a class in the garden naming all the vegetables in English, o and we're not going to do it in But anyway, so we, that was anot Anyway, so lots of different fol come in and contribute.

And the rule of thumb kind of is you take from the garden in prop to what you think you have contr Mhmmm.

So and no problem.

And, and then there's still tons and tons of stuff left.

So we have these little, there's a picture in the book in And, is it in my chapter?

Yes.

In my chapter.

Well, the good doctor Hochwender and a great student at the time.

Picture of them at one of a gard markets we call them.

And where we, we those of us who participate in t gather a bunch of stuff up early in the morning, even with the de And well, now we do this at the garden sit We used to drag it all to campus We didn't drag it, but it was ki a pain paying to do all that.

But anyway, we take it to campus spread it out a big tables and t secretaries from administrative assistants, I guess, and other folks, collea and so forth, could come by and you'd walk away with a few dollars spent and a whole bunch of stuff It was inexpensive.

And then there was still and is always food leftover and that I either to the Patchwork Food Pan or to Saint Vincent.

Sister Donna at Saint Vincent, that foo So nothing's wasted.

Growing Good, I like it.

Yeah.

S So just another way of talking about Bill's experience in Seneg and that I've always been curiou and that is because when I see what Bill does, I always see him working to draw community.

So it doesn't matter whether it's with CASA or whether it's with the Food Ga or whether it's with Patchwork.

And I'm just really curious myse what was Senegal, Senegal like for a community in Cameroon, for a community?

And how did you how does that influence about co Influence what you do?

Yeah, I just gave a big talk on at USI the other day.

Oh, I'm too little too far.

Yeah.

So I could say a few things about community.

Especially in Africa we, so it was my wife and I and first time around and in the Mad there was one kid.

But the second time around we had the two daughters.

But, you know, as foreigners and we were very foreign in a pl like that, you are very dependen you have to be on everybody.

And it didn't have to be a linguistic dependency like you needed someone to trans Often it was, but man, you need, need help of So when our first daughter this was 1988, when I got that Fulbright to Madagascar, I mean this was her first year.

We didn't know my wife had, it was her first kid.

So she's, my first kid.

And there's no one to talk.

I mean, she had never sisters th Her mom wasn't there, my sisters weren't there and so So we had to depend and we did on good friends and we had wonderful friends alw But for instance, I mean, this was going to be a little gr what do you do with diapers in a tropica Well, you don't well, furthermore, the first place you to have someone to wash them, ha washing everything, well, you can't just hang your clothes because they'll develop bugs.

All these bugs come these nicely things and deposit their eggs in So even diapers too have to be ironed after they're Okay, so we have to have someone to do We have to know that you have to have that done and then you have to have someone to do it.

So that's just one of the things In Cameroon, for instance, there are no, there no roads.

I mean there's no road names.

So to get around this city of 3 million people, how do you Well, you depend on someone who where he's going and which we di And then, there are no you know, Walmart, there actually is something like I'm not sure that's a good thing but there's no single place to buy a bunch of stuff.

So if you wanted like paperclips well there's some little guy dow who sells paperclips, so you have to know where he is.

Well I, what do you call it?

Clothes hangers, you know.

Well, that's in some little shop in the back alley of some spot p Well, anyway, you know where we' to know where that is, you know.

Anyways, so we were very dependent on fol and they were very helpful, but we made great, you know, I think we made great, great con We still are in contact with fol Madagascar, which is now 30 year Our daughter is 33 and same thing with Cameroon.

Now Chris, did you do any, any travels in your research?

I had a short stint in Ghana.

Ghana, yeah.

And found the people, as Bill de them, just really generous peopl Unbelievable.

who saw that you were limited because as a white Euro, Eurocen you know fair skinned, you really are limited in your a And yet people treat you with ge and, and kindness.

And, and I think about being here in Southwest Indiana and hoping that we do the same sorts of thi And there are a couple of great in Growing Good that sort of come back to that and talk about where we can fit into community folks who are from other places and, and help them with the challenge they face like the ones Bill is describing.

You know, it's just as alien for coming from a different country and needing support and guidance having a sense of where to find So what did you study in Ghana?

What were you.

Actually.

Investigating?

I was just teaching at middle sc and high school.

That maybe you were setting some exotic plants there.

Now that was before my graduate experiences.

Okay.

We were talking off camera about species.

That's also a concern, isn't it, Absolutely.

Invasives are the other side of right?

The, the head side of that coin trying to work to bring native s back into our area and promoting like if we're planting trees to choose native oak species or native maple species.

And the tails side of that coin when we've chosen unwisely, like the Norway Maple and the kinds of problems it has or as you described it, the Call one of the most problematic tree because it's so successful in spreading, even though it was deemed to be a seedless species when it was first promoted.

But it helps us to recognize that we really need to be attentive to natives, because if we're not, there are already enough non-native plant species that so will continue to expand their ra and be too successful.

Yeah.

Can you say something Cris, about the benefits of native spe And I'm thinking of insects, you Yeah.

The attraction and so fort because it's real.

It's astonishing.

It is really s I mention oaks because oak species can be host to hundreds of different, different species of insects.

And each of those insects is a food resource for then the next trophic level which often includes bird specie that would be feeding on them.

And so if we have our native spe the food that are the insects on those tr then feed our native bird specie especially those migratory birds that are coming north in the spr and moving back into the tropics in the fall.

They need really large amounts of energy r and those insects provide that f I mean, I'm thinking of, am I ri The bush honeysuckle?

Hmm.

Is that a Japanese honeysuckle?

It is.

Yeah, okay.

An invasive species?

Another invasive species.

Now, I'm thinking a little highe because my brother- in-law has five acres, a nice space, bu and it had been a field farm at the entire, maybe two acres of h when they bought it.

So they've been there about five or seven years.

But anyway, is covered with thes these Bush honeysuckle.

Nothing can grow there besides the bush honeysuckle.

And it's apparently inedible, although there are berries, but they're bright and unpalatab even for, you know, birds and so And they do they poison the ground or someth whereby nothing else is going to I think they're just more compet So they out compete everything e They really do.

But as Bill was describing it, most of the non-native species are not food resources.

Neither the leaves for herbivore nor the flowers are typically ac and then for cultivated things t think of as pretty flowers in ou Many times those the flowers have been selected to have a dif look to them, which makes them inaccessible to bee pollinators.

So there are many reasons to, to grow natives and to avoid non And the two most striking are, if you love anything wild, it's going to benefit by having wild plants as a resou And if you want to avoid hurting then just don't bring in non-nat Because even if you think it's probably a safe species, it certainly isn't going to be d to feed our native species.

And makes me feel bad about all the nandinia I had in Have you had Sharon Sorensen on this program?

No.

Oh, the great nature writer bird specialist in the area.

But she hates Nandina.

And under What is that?

It's a beautiful plant with bron colored leaves and apparently th The fruits.

The fruits are poisonous to a lo birds, especially cedar wax wing Yes, but I justify their presenc in my small yard by, by knowing that I have tons of other things appropriate things for the birds to eat their veggi It's the burden of knowledge the That's true.

Now, Growing Good and not only i community gardens and ecology, b fostering a better living climat doing good that featured in the which is Growing Good, A Beginne to Cultivating Caring Communitie Among them, CASA sister Joanna's House of Bread and Peas and Patchwork Central, all great agencies.

And you're, you're acquainted wi you know.

Yes, I am.

Are you a CASA volunteer Bill?

Y I have been for a number of year Tell us about CASA.

Yeah, this is interesting.

CASA stands C-A-S-A capital lett always, stands for Court Appointed Special Advocate.

So when you know this, unfortunately often happens, a kid is separated from mom, dad For whatever reason.

And then th probably because the kid is either neglected or abused, mom and dad are in prison or in some other place and the k go someplace, foster care or a treatment facility or residential treatment facilit Anyway, mom and Dad will eventually come up to c for various hearings, but no one's there is.

This is what they decided.

No one is there in court to speak for the kid, and no one's there to really fol after the kid too, to see what's and to meet with foster parents, to meet with if there's a psychiatrist meet with the psychiatrist school fol after how the kid's doing in sch Oftentimes these poor kids are bounced arou from place to place and make it a challenge for anyb So anyway, the CASA volunteers w is a group of specialists who these are in town here.

They're all women and they train and then work with volunteers.

That would be someone like me.

And they accompany us always to when we go.

I've been to court about six tim this year.

It's been a little rough.

But anyway, we go to court and they follow us there and we we always present a report.

How is the kid doing?

How many times have you talked to him or her?

That kind of stuff.

And you follow the kid along unt something permanent happens and often does within a year.

But this case that I'm on now, that I've been with this ki for three and a half years, that's a long time.

And he's got a, it's been a pretty tough road to Anyway, so I'm his voice in my o Now, another essay in the book d with standing up to super polluters written by Wendy Bredhold.

Wendy who is.

She's pretty well known.

She is, she's a firebrand defini And she is defending our environ and I guess she's a champion of Cris.

Well, how can you not love somebody who is working to reduce the amount of air poll that we're exposed to.

If you think about the one of th places to be in Indiana for air quality, it's right here in Evansville.

And it's because we have a lot o fired power plants that are rele pollutants into the air.

And it's not just carbon dioxide That's about greenhouse gases, b pollutants that affect our respiratory syst from sulfur dioxide to carbon mo to by releasing nitrogen oxides and having those react with oxygen in the air, ozone and all of that damages our lung So if you have children and your children have challenge with asthma or it's really most because of all of the super poll we have in the area.

And then layered on top of that is also mercury emissions.

And all of that mercury falls ou finds its way into our streams a And so anybody who is passionate to take hold and fight against t super polluters, who are the ones who are polluti scale, is much larger than your typical coal fired pow You have to love those people.

Of course plants are our friends in the battle, in the battle against these poll I was going to say though, that the problem is a physical one as We live in a river valley and some of the stuff just hangs here and just come by July while you live here.

So do I.

So does he.

But any time in July, August I m just it's kind of suffocating, y And actually, I guess I may be wrong about thi I was about to say that the ozone, bad ozone days, actua that number has decreased.

I think I'm right about that.

But it still ain't good in this So, no it's a, it's a rough plac So Wendy and John Blair, of cour another advocate to protect the we breathe.

Now in the book, we talk about Patchworks Central where you kind of manage the foo There.

Calvin Kimbrough, the founder of Patrick Central.

I work with Calvin Kimbrough at Channel 14.

He was a photographer there and we won many stories together Calvin is a good guy and he has some great photograph in the book too, of folks that h He says these photographs are those created in the image o Saying his images of men and wom opened doors into God's soul.

All are deserving of housing, food, health care, and a living And of course, Patrick Central i of refuge for people needing hel Yeah, well, when Calvin took those pictures, I believe he was living at the O Community in Atlanta.

Same kind of thing though where, where they would welcome and fee oh dozens, maybe hundreds of folks every da And there was a residential plac unlike Patchwork.

So Calvin and his wife Neilia li They lived now in Nashville.

But anyway, so and he got to kno needless to say, a whole bunches and befriended, befriended many of them and took pictures of a lot of th And they brought doctors.

And I remember, I volunteered th sometimes over the years, but th there is a witness, there is a regular foot clinic.

Well, I guess most of us do recognize of having your feet treated if you have problems.

But if you're on your feet all t you freeze because you're outside in cold w And so when you probably have lots of foot problems, so they had a regular foot clini We were there for that day.

So it was there's a lot of, a lot of wonderful things were d Sadly, that place the Open Door Community is no longer there.

They well, the folks disbanded and so on but, but by the good s All these essays in the book any of that really hit home to y They all of them probably did.

Yeah that's why they were chosen That's why they're there.

Are th I think it's the second one.

I had to go back over this becau been a while since I put it toge But the second one is written by student of mine, Wendy, not Wend But Shelley Dewig.

And at the time and this is a sa and interesting story though, at the time she was working in L she still is in Louisville working with Catholic charities.

They refugee and migrant service or something lik and work directly with folks com resettlement.

That's it, in this country.

Owing to the policies of our pre president, her entire office was fired and she lost her job and there weren't so many folks coming into the community because our doors were closed, t doors.

But that's not necessarily a goo One expects that things are opening up again especially now with Afghan folks who are coming over.

And there's always Iraqis who are coming over.

So but I'm not sure where she wo now, but it is a beautiful chapt I think where she befriends a fe I think it's Iraq.

I don't even remember.

So that's one I want to mention.

And the very next one is another person from Louis whom I know from here, but he's in Louisville as Kyle K And he, he works at the Passioni It's a Catholic.

It's like a oh shoot, I can't th What do you do?

It's.

Oh, heck, I can't.

Where you go?

And shoot.

Yeah, I'm not used to vocab.

Has a refuge in the city.

Yeah and he talks about me.

That's a title of his thing is made for, for belonging.

He calls it a nonprofit interfai spirituality center.

And folks can come and stay ther there as part of their their, their treatment, if you will, and so f But he writes in this made for b then he has a garden project there, too.

It’s invited in lots of Africans, actually, a lo from overseas who happened to li in the Louisville area and they could farm there for fr And the kind of community that i both in the interfaith center bu the outdoors of the interfaith c where they come together in the We're talking about growing good in your community and you have something to add th I was just going to say that I r like that title made for belongi Oh it's, it's really nice.

I really think that all of us look for those places, right.

I think probably WNIN and it's lucky to have you here because you were looking for tha of community for yourself, right Well I enjoy sharing these stori I really do.

And of all the good people aroun area know that doing things righ they really are.

No, I know some Well, I was in the news business so long doing all those negative So this is really a break for me Depressing after awhile.

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And, and going along with that, I really enjoyed the, the chapter on Patchwork and, and she talks about the parable of the rake and she tells this story about somebody comes by and says, “Can I see the rake?” And he takes the rake and leaves and she's wondering where that p is going with the rake.

And is that rake gone forever.

And will she be getting the rake And, and she sort of uses that as a metaphor for how when we're looking for t to belong and for that sense of community, we have to take those risks.

Right?

That willingness to, to just let go and expect that something goo is going to happen from it.

Yeah.

And in that sense of looking for a place to belong we need to do more than just say what am I being fed?

What am I being served?

But really, how can I take a ris you know, to provide something that might be beneficial in our And that's what I enjoy about these stories Are those examples where you can how people have taken risks and how that can strengthen our and give us places to belong.

You know, I could talk a long time about P I won't talk too long now about But I mean, it's been around sin which is when you knew Calvin Kimbrough and his wife were here as the founders of the place.

Well, I don't know if you rememb Pitts, Pitzer, but he was a soci professor at USI.

But his specialty was communal, communities and communal studies In fact, he really featured that in his work out at USI.

Anyway, one time he came to Patc and was talking and said, “You know, most communities like which are typically called intentional communities, we intend to be together.

They may or may not have a relig element to them, but there's an And yeah, that's the risk.

We're intending to do something.

We don't know what it's exactly going to be and how we're going to manage it but here we go.

But he said, “The lives typical lifespan of such a group is about two years.” Well, Patrick has been there 44 So, I mean, this is kind of a te to something in this town, I think something good in this t in that there, were one there's steady stream of folks who are w as you say, take this risk you k And at the same time, there's plenty to do.

And, of course, the programs that Patchwork have changed over And I think with pride, I can say that the first free cl took place in a wing of the Patchwork build and this would have been before Eko clinics.

Now someone's going to correct m but I think I'm right, before there was an echo clinic, and I think there's now two and, you know, full time phy and that's right and wonderful.

But it all started at Patchwork.

And it got to be you know, it wa with so many people running arou and there was so much need that folks who had more wherewithal said, well, let's maybe step asi and try to get a bigger place fo But the point is that Patchwork is the place that it s And it was the seed and it's bee It’s a seed.

Yeah, that's correc And it's a wonderful thing now, So anyway, lots of programs like that have happened at Patchwork over the years.

My guests are Bill Hemminger and Hochwender.

We're talking about the new publ Growing Good A Beginner's Guide to Cultivating Caring Communitie And we've been talking about the environment and climate chan Is that a concern, Cris?

It's certainly the largest conce for any ecologist in the world t The bigger challenge is how do w climate change and how do we get economic inves to, to reduce the amount of CO2 we put into the atmosphere.

It's, it's I think in some ways, the biggest challenge with it is look 50 years down the road when we have to really just star acknowledging we are that 50 yea the road already.

You know, I was going to say the last chapter in the book, “T Sweet Spot of Climate Action”.

The author, Jim Poyser in Indian works with.

I mean, his big thing is we need We need to educate kids.

But kids need to be part of the process, the, the political proc climate change, climate action h you know.

And it is the stories of his working with kids.

And I wanted too point out to ma I wanted to include the Earth Charter Indiana, with this chapt but it's not possible.

But anyway, folks want to look at something, could look at the Earth Charter in Indiana, which is part of the Earth Charter International.

But there's a phalanx of people professionals in all who are working to work with kid with other groups, to work with climate action, wherever they are.

So it's a pretty neat thing.

And his kids in Indianapolis to put together that straw bale I don't know if you saw the pict I don't know if you did.

But yeah.

We still get straws.

I had to hand it back at the res yesterday or wherever I.

Do that too.

I said, you know, don't just give these out.

Most of us don't even want them My wife and I, we just push them and say, take them back.

And it is a small thing, but it's not a small thing.

You know, if you get a straw, if you're a seal or something, you get a straw stuck there.

It could be the end for you or whatever creature it is.

But plus there's all this plasti that's going to outlive, well wh even the bacteria in the world.

So anyway.

Cris, doing the science part for also a Ph.D., a biology professo He's been researching restoratio repairing the damage done to our environment.

And not an easy task, is it Cris I understand you've been collect and you told us earlier about this research along the Wabash River.

What about that?

So Vectren Conservation Park is about 1100 acres and it is right along the Wabash River out in Gibson County.

And so we have had several diffe big investments through summer research with stu to try to re-establish some native plants in the area.

At first, the targeted work was on trying to restore a wet m but The floods just kept beating every year.

It seemed like when we would put seed down, it would get washed a So we started to try to do plugs meadow plants and it faired a little bit bette But recently we've shifted just of, you know, financial constrai it's a different strategy to try and ge plantings out there.

So my hope is because there are some places wh back in the day, Vectren planted rows of native trees on the site We're trying to collect acorns and plug them back in, in that area to try to enhance the diversity.

And given that oaks feed so many which feed birds, we thought that would be the bes target group for us to replant.

Have you seen any eagles out the There are nesting eagles out on the end of the river there.

And they're just stunning.

Yeah.

So it's really great to see how eagle reproduction that has added the last 20 years Yeah, tremendous.

Yeah.

Also the importance of pollinato tell me about that Cris.

So in the native plant garden, w more of the focus is on the herb plants, the things you might gro in a garden for showy flowers, t that can come even to this small that is the courtyard yard in Co Right.

So this area is maybe 50 feet by 50 feet at the most.

And half of that is concrete.

And in that area, with the native plants that are in flower during the su we get all sorts of bees from bumblebees to leaf cutting bees, sweat bees and, you know, we usually think of sweet bees in a negative connotation, but these are really great native po And just in Indiana, we have over 400 species of nati And somehow, you know, we let the honeybee, which isn't native, sort of distract us from this incredible diversity of pollinators that do a lot of the work for us Right.

We should be wanting to have more pollinators because they're providing these of doing pollination, even on some of the non-native f that we have growing.

Now Bill, working in the garden inspired you to write a number o Yeah.

Also your travels in Afric And some of those poems appear in the book.

Yeah.

And have you picked out one to r Yeah, actually I have, I have to find it first though.

And you've also written some musical compositions.

I understand.

So you are a renaissance guy.

We we have whatever.

Proclaimed you that.

Okay.

On Two Main Street.

Here you go.

Okay, then.

It's legit.

It is.

All right.

What do you got?

What's the titl The title here is, “Sweet Potato and I want to read this because we just dug sweet potatoes the o And this is a Patchwork again.

So this is with the kids because they have kids that come in the afternoon for what t the children's programs.

And I've done this for a hundred and well, maybe not quite, but a You look good for a 100.

Yeah, thanks a lot.

But after the, after the frosts and you know, the garden is long Well, that just before the frost the sweet potato vines are just I mean just, they're luxurious and they have purple green leave they're fantastic.

Until you think, oh heck, you kn frost comes and it's all brown a But of course, what you want is that fabulous, you know, frui underground, that tuber undergro which is, you know, it can be wh and those are actually sweeter.

But the big yellow orangey ones, so that's what we plant.

And for the kids, it's a big hit And once I took a group of unive students when I was teaching the to dig through potatoes, it was I tell you, it was a big So and, and so I was doing a lit of study here on the sweet potat Well, it's a natural source of phytoestroge Estrogen, in other words, so you can get plant estrogen an apparently in particularly in th where sweet potatoes do really w would take lots of sweet potato, you know, at menopause and other times of their lives.

Anyways, so that's one of the st that comes out.

But it is always exciting to jus the plants are dead and a sad looking area and then you start digging in th There's fantastic plants.

So anyway, with no further ado, ,”Sweet Potato”.

“October, after heat and lack of Soon evening vapor will collect and congeal c thirsty leaves at night, then explode in early icy light.

White death in a garden of brown To save itself the sassafras dro half its crop of leaves, sclerot Lacking attractive dipping pools buzz and strafe my sweaty head.

Rampant on the crumbling floor, the sweet potato vines flow in green and purple waves.

We lug shovels and spades, not w we interrupt the purple growing.

We know the swollen orange, swollen orange tubers wait, grav there beneath the mantle, what Mississippi women took as a to aging before science made est a fact of pharmacies.

And though we have gone through all before, each heft of the sho that strikes sweet gold brings o and then applause.

In thirty minutes we've destroyed the purple world but don't regret, since now we e amazed the growing pile of suns whose energy is radiant now and stored for later.

There's a sweet potato for a swe So how can we grow good in our c Well, Cris, what should we be pl our maybe our home gardens and what should we be avoiding, avoiding planning?

Well, we have mentioned some of the things to watch out There are some good community fo Who help to organize sales of native plants.

So I think maybe it would make s to mention them at first.

Yeah, the Indiana Native Plant S here in the southwest corner of does a really great job of organ two sales now, one in May and the other on I think in September, well where from their own native plants, grow some plants for sale that y then put into your gardens, and they focus on only selling those native plants And there's a part of that commu that's also the Indiana Master Naturalists Group.

So at that sale that they have, they also have a, a big chunk of their plants that are just na for people who are interested.

For me, I'm a huge fan of anythi milkweed related because all of those milkweeds w monarch butterflies.

So especially the swamp milkweed in August, September, when the monarchs are migrating and laying their last batch of e the leaves of the swamp milkweed are just about right fo to use for the caterpillars to f and be that last generation that flies south.

So milkweeds, I'm a big fan of t both rambunctious and tamer kinds of plants.

Most of the most of the plants that are native that grow unders are pretty good bets for people who want tame pl I think that the trilliums are just lovely.

There are also, Bloodroot is a very beautiful, interesting plant.

Wild ginger can be one of those that doesn't get out of control as quickly.

There are also some fabulous, rambunctious things.

If you have a big backyard and you want some plants that are mi but you don't have to worry so much about growing them because they will certainly grow themselves.

My favorite of those is, the Cup plant, which is Southwes Indiana's best silphium.

It has these huge leaves that fused together at the stem and that's why it's called Cup.

It'll hold water in it.

They will grow the ones in the U native plant garden right now.

Some of them are over nine feet They grow over six foot tall probably by the second year.

And they have these big bright yellow sunflower like flowers an wonderful job of recruiting gold that love their big meaty seeds.

So that's a that one's a winner.

If you have a yard where you wan a bit of wildness to it, there are some that are still.

Crossvine.

Tell them about Cross No, this is a great, this is bea It is a lovely plant.

It is a somewhat tamer version o Its tame?

Well compared to Trumpet vine.

Oh well yeah, no, they're two of the three spe that come from the big known fam But, but Crossvine does it just has these gorgeous orange flowers that bees love in And so, yeah, they're spectacular.

Beautiful.

Pink, orange, I mean beautiful.

And so they, they really do a ni of creating a wall.

If you have a ugly old fence and you want something to grow on that fence, they can do a great job of that.

But they are again one of those rambunctious native I know Trumpet vine also is native.

As well.

Yeah, all the canvases are.

And it's but, but I grew up with Trumpet vine in o and so I'm always afraid of it.

It's just even more aggressive than the best aggressive.

It is aggressive.

But I the description of mischie and tame.

So plant, well, you can watch the Trumpet vine g if you don't, if you don't move you'll be sucked into it.

There is another wonderful vinin that's also somewhat aggressive and it's the Pipe vine, so Dutchman's pipe over it.

So there is a native, there is a native Dutchman's pip And some of these species are really wonderful because the these specialized native butterf So for Pipe vine, the caterpillars of the pipeline swallowtail will feed on it and nothing else.

So you really, if you want to get these big beautiful, showy butterflies, you need the right the plants.

Plants.

That are their host plant for fe Right.

And then they also need good plants for, for nectar because the butterflies a to need nectar when they're adul So yeah.

Well, here's a quote from the bo Growing Good, “Anger and hopeles can overwhelm communities here.” So what can everyday people do to actually grow some good in their own hometown?

So, Bill, what's some advice to who wants to change our social c for the better?

Well, I turn off the tv and probably t and don't look at your computer for a long That'd be a first thing.

And then get outside, whether you're outside literally with Cris, with his rambunctious or you're at an agency in town or you want to become a CASA vol I mean, there's only a giant list of things that you ca to get involved with other peopl So you're actually dealing with and talking to them.

And it's amazing how some of those differences that seem so poignant and so tre when we're listening to the news and getting angry are really just not that big when you are w something with somebody else.

So get your hands dirty.

Oh, definitely do that.

There you go.

Yeah, yeah.

If you're if you're less social you can use native plants as you for serving in the community by planting and growing them.

And talk to to rambunctious plan And then you can just talk to on or two people that come by at a I know you don't hear too many a among gardeners, do you, or do y I don't, maybe they do argue abo No, I don't know.

I can't say that we've had too many in my years, I'm not the only one out there, Well, guys, some great advice, g My guests have been Bill Hemming author and editor of Growing Good A Beginner's Guide to Cultivating Caring Communitie And Cris Hochwender, professor o at the University of Evansville.

Thanks, guys and keep growing go We appreciate it.

Thank you David.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

I'm David James.

This is Two Main Street presente Jeffrey Berger, of Berger Wealth at Baird Private Wealth Manageme