>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in a piece of music about the Virgin Mary, who was confronted with the killing of Jesus and watching the suffering of her son.

Many parents might be able to relate to the idea of worrying about a child or seeing the suffering of a child.

The many paintings and books and poems attempt to capture this kind of anguish.

But for Ukrainians, there is something familiar and especially visceral in this story.

Many Ukrainians have had to endure the loss of a child, the suffering of a loved one, the killing of their own.

So when they hear a piece like Stabat Mater, it might strike a particular chord.

Olena Prokopovych set out to do something about that.

Much of her life is devoted to art and music.

Her singing, her work with different artists now, her translations.

Prokopovych wanted to hear certain timeless pieces performed in her native Ukrainian language, and she wanted to translate one of the great Ukrainian poets to English to share his words with the English speaking world.

Ukrainian art has not stopped.

It has not died with the war.

In fact, it has intensified in many ways, sharing stories of solidarity, sometimes suffering.

But our guest this hour will tell you that, yes, we often talk about the war in Ukraine.

Sometimes we need to stop and talk about the people, the art, the soul that would exist before the Russian invasion.

It will exist long after this war is gone, and it can be a connective tissue during a time of suffering.

So let me welcome three Olena to the program today.

I mentioned Dr.

Elena Prokopovych, whose associate professor of political science, director of the Political Science undergraduate program in history, Politics and law at Nazareth University, a remarkably talented singer.

Do you want me to go on?

Is that enough for now?

>> That's more than enough.

>> It's great to have you back here.

>> Thank you, thank you.

>> Ivan.

Um, Elena Kondrashova is with us, a Ukrainian artist and photographer.

Welcome to you.

Thank you for being here.

>> Thank you so much for having us.

>> And Elena Dilai is with us, a fine arts photographer, owner of Elena Dilai Photography.

Welcome to you as well.

>> Thank you.

Ivan.

>> You reached out a few weeks ago and you had this idea that we have to talk about the war, but lost in that, you felt like we were maybe missing something.

What was it?

>> Ukraine has been in war over four years, and, I mean, I have been here on Connections more than once, talking about war and talking about how to help Ukraine.

But I would like to turn that narrative, and I would like to talk about Ukraine as a country with deep roots, deep culture, deep traditions, Ukraine as something more than that identity of the war victim that it has gained over the past four years.

So, and I both Elena are friends, and I know how talented they are.

And we often talk about our art.

We often discuss what we have done as far as Ukrainian themed art, or something that is connected to Ukraine.

And I would love us to start sharing that because it is such an important narrative for people to see that what Ukraine is the culture, the traditions and the preservation of that Ukrainian heritage that is important.

>> Mhm.

Elena Kondrashova.

How do you see this question?

Do you are we too focused on, um, almost seeing Ukraine single dimensionally as just suffering in a war as opposed to a richer, fuller picture of people?

>> Absolutely.

But I think people think about that, um, because of the perspective of if even the word war itself.

So that's why people forget that there's not just a war, of course, there's a grief and there's a pain and a horrible stuff there in Ukraine, however, it's actually a life, a simple life that still remains there and people still live, love making coffee, argue about the stupid things, and, uh, just trying to live, live the simple life.

And that's exactly what we're fighting for.

>> Elena Prokopovych sent me a really beautiful document about the work you're doing in translation, and I want to start by asking you, um, why you are undertaking these efforts right now.

>> Oh, it's, it's a rather personal choice.

The choice that didn't have the aim.

Uh, originally of, of being spread or used in any particular ways.

Um, but as the war intensified, um, and as absolutely surreptitiously, I discovered Baroque when I was looking for Shevchenko, Shevchenko, the most iconic, the most important poet in Ukraine.

And I discovered Baroque when I was looking for Shevchenko.

It's my personal story that I will treasure forever.

Um, it occurred to me that the pain, but also the courage and the determination of Ukrainian people can be very beautifully expressed through the medium of Baroque music that holds an amazing resource for sublime, for recognition of violence, for protest against that violence, and for commemoration of victims and the hope that we collectively can all do better than, than kill.

Um, and so it came together.

My love for Ukrainian language and my love for Baroque inspired me to translate some timeless works, both sacred and secular, to Ukrainian.

Um, and the most important part is that some of these translations are singable.

Therefore, I hold up hope that professional musicians I'm an amateur, but professional musicians at one point might use the text that I've created, the translations to make concerts, raise awareness, raise money, do whatever seems, you know, helpful with that we do with the art.

Um, and, and that they will have that life.

And if not that, then I just want Ukrainians to better understand something in Ukrainian and those who do not speak Ukrainian, to understand some of the most beautiful lines of Shevchenko's poetry.

That's all.

>> Well, you say that you are an amateur.

I think we've got a video and we can listen to a little audio.

Before we do that, tell us a little bit about.

We're going to hear you here.

Uh, tell us a little bit about this Elena.

>> Oh, this is the moment.

>> Um, so a wonderful group of people came together within days, really weeks, days of the full scale invasion.

Everybody wanted to do something, you know, in that February, late February of 2022, Ukraine was attacked so brutally, so savagely, literally millions of artists around the world did something but were just part of a much bigger thing.

But at Nazareth University, um, we got together and I was happy to have the text of Stabat Mater already available.

And I said, okay, I offer this, I will perform this, I will rehearse my very best.

And we already have 20 minutes of a concert.

And then so many people came together and we had more than an hour worth of amazing music and recitations of poetry to raise a considerable sum of money.

There at Nazareth.

And of course, everybody donated their time, their talents for rehearsals and for performance.

Absolutely for free.

And I'm very grateful we raised money in 2022.

We sent the money to Ukraine and many, many others have done the same.

>> So as we let's listen to some of Stabat Mater and we'll talk to Elena about that.

Let's listen to some of.

>> That.

>> I love the way Christopher.

Your Paul, love all that for me are all.

One and the.

Whole point.

>> Okay, that's Elena Prokopovych singing.

And that is, uh, a Vivaldi setting of stop at Morris.

>> And yes, it's Antonio Vivaldi setting of Stabat Mater.

>> And what language are you singing in there?

>> I'm singing in Ukrainian.

You're singing in the original text is in Latin.

Um, it was known and sung in every land that had a connection to the Latin language as a scriptural language.

For centuries.

There are hundreds of settings of this piece.

Vivaldi is one of the best known, and this work has a character of something like Messiah.

So if those of our listeners who know Messiah and why it is performed every Christmas, they would know that this is the work that is performed very, very often on Passion Friday or around that Passion Week to, to give meaning to the event of crucifixion and resurrection.

>> What are you feeling in the moment of the passage we just heard.

>> That that in Ukrainian it speaks about the suffering of millions of mothers, parents, spouses, children who stood, you know, by that proverbial grave, the cross who witnessed the torture and the killing of their loved ones.

Um, and who cannot put up with this, who cannot normalize it.

This is not normal.

And what's great about Stabat Mater, and this is a very direct in its text to English, sometimes it's translated in a more flowery language.

Like for example, it is said that, you know, stood the mother all in pain.

Um, you know, by the cross where her son was crucified.

But in Latin it's more direct where her son was hanging, hanging.

Um, and, and Ukrainian, when you say to another language, there's yet another layer of things you can emphasize or do.

>> And who did the translation to Ukrainian?

I did, you did.

>> Yeah, I did translation of three Stabat Mater.

So it's a, it's a.

>> The word choice is so important because you're right, the word crucifixion almost has a euphemistic quality, right?

And the word hanging.

>> Yes.

>> Is more visceral.

>> He was hanging by the, you know, and, and there's torture in that.

And Ukrainians have experienced torture on unprecedented scale.

Absolutely mind boggling scale.

And so Stabat Mater to me is, um, a work that that can be, and it should be used very powerfully to remember the victims of unspeakable brutality and to protest against it.

It, it really is a protest, um, Baroque music did not take violence lightly.

There was always a protest.

And in operas there was always a resolution.

There was a very hopeful era.

>> Could this could this translation move around the world?

>> It could.

I obtained copyright for it for special reasons, because I hope to be able to offer it sort of exclusively to maybe a professional ensembles who would agree to do this.

So that's why I'm not yet putting it out in the world.

I put out in the world literary translations of of Stabat Mater.

In fact, I added one in Ukrainian for the first time to this amazing resource called the official Stabat Mater website.

They keep more translations of Stabat Mater and more examples of Stabat.

What what people do with Stabat Mater than any other website that I know.

It's this amazing old couple from the Netherlands who started this project.

When I found it, I saw there's no Ukrainian translation.

I added mine and then I found an even more beautiful, absolutely iconic translation by Oleksiy Anatoliy.

Oleg, I found this person online.

He made the translation that has every merit in the world as a literary translation.

I added his translation there.

And so there's a lot of Ukrainian text out there, but the singable one, I'm saving it for an ensemble.

Ensembles who would agree to perform it on a bigger stage than than here.

You know.

>>, what an amazing story.

Um, and thank you for sharing it with the Connections audience.

Thank you for having to do that.

Yeah, for willing, willing to do that.

Um, and, um, coming up here, I want to talk to you about translating Shevchenko and how English speakers might connect to the work of Taras Shevchenko, who you said is Ukraine's most important and iconic national poet.

>> Yes, yes, indeed.

Yes.

Maybe after we hear about the art in photography, we can come back.

To more languages.

>> We could probably do this all day.

Yes.

Our guests are, uh, of Ukrainian descent, talking about their art, talking about how they see the sometimes the suffering, sometimes the echoes of war, but not just the, the echoes of war.

I mean, it's a much richer picture than Americans often get of a country that has been under siege for more than four years.

But really more than 12 years.

If you go back to Crimea.

Um, so, um, if you're watching on YouTube, we can share some of the photography that we have from Elena and Olena.

And, um, let's start with Elena.

Um, if we could, I'm going to share and this is again, if you're not watching on YouTube and you're just listening, don't worry, Elena and Elena are going to do a great job of describing for you the work that they're doing and why they're doing it.

But maybe we can show the first image here on YouTube here.

And number one here from Elena Dilai and Elena.

Go ahead, tell us about this.

We see the woman here.

>> Yeah.

The first two images are the ones that are created as fine art pieces.

So they're not portraits to be to convey just a likeness of, of a person or emotion, but rather to tell a story.

And both were inspired by Ukrainians, this one by Ukrainian refugees who come here.

And all of a sudden, you see, and actually it was inspired by my conversation with the person, with the particular person who is so calm on the outside seems nothing to it.

But then inside, when you start learning her stories, and if we were able to zoom in on her headpiece, which I made from scratch with thinking, how do I embed this idea of emotions that are inside of a person, but yet we don't see them visibly on the outside, the weight of that baggage that a person brings with them that was imposed on them, perhaps by other generations, by their experiences, by everything that the person lived through.

And there are so well hidden in that piece that you can't see them right away.

I also made her eyes closed because eyes are your window to the soul.

And in any portrait, if the eyes are open, you gravitate to see the eyes and you always circle back to the eyes.

But I wanted the viewer to experience the headpiece, to experience her posture, to experience the image as a whole, and to see that emotion embedded into it, beyond the person, beyond what we see.

To me, this represents not just Ukrainian refugees, because everybody can relate to a story like that.

When you are carrying so much more than we see.

But I wanted my images.

I want some of my images at least to carry Ukrainian attributes.

To me, it's extremely important that images are recognized by Ukraine as Ukrainians, because that's how cultures survive.

That's how traditions survive.

That's how the world will not buy Russian narrative that Ukraine is just an extension of Russia, which they have tried to convey to the world.

And to me, that part, my small, small contribution to Ukrainian themed images, which are done in a fine art style and can be considered an artful work.

To me that is very important.

Part of my of my existence.

Um, and then we have another image that is right next to it with two boys who are students in Brighton School district.

Um.

>> Describe it for the audience who can't see it.

>> Right.

So, um, two boys want to explain bandura instrument, which is Ukrainian traditional instrument, and the other one is holding Kobzar, which is a book by Taras Shevchenko.

And we already mentioned Taras Shevchenko, and that both have such significance in Ukrainian culture that they are highly recognizable as Ukrainian.

And I want the viewer to see them and not think, oh, this must be Eastern European or Slavic.

I want the viewers to get used to seeing them in a variety of work and hearing the name of Taras Shevchenko so they can get used to this being Ukrainian.

And these boys are refugees, by the way, they came from Ukraine because of the war.

They now are in Brighton school district, and when I met them, I could see how I met them when they were here about for two years, and I, I could see they are being Americanized very, very quickly.

English is good.

There are great students.

They play soccer, they have friends, et cetera.

So normal life.

But then in parallel to that, I could feel their Ukrainian soul.

Their respect to traditions, the desire to read Ukrainian books and to keep up with everything, with their heritage, their mother and father and relatives did an excellent job.

Um, them being so, so Ukrainian, having having these deep Ukrainian souls.

So I wanted to kind of translate this and I named this preserving heritage because this is what happens when people are replanted.

They become assimilated in a country where they live, where they live, but they also carry a lot of their own soul, the soul that they grew up with.

And they are becoming the keepers of that tradition abroad.

>> Beautiful.

Um, let's look at a couple from Elena Kondrashova.

If we could, uh, the first image, uh, which will again, we will share it out with the visual audience on YouTube and we'll have our guests describe it as we see it here.

Let's look at the first one, if we could, guys, this is, um, it's a little girl standing on, I think it looks like blacktop or pavement.

And the words stand with Ukraine or below her.

Go ahead.

Elena.

>> Yeah, that's exactly what it is.

Um, I have a title for that work inheritance.

And that's the narrative I was trying to put there.

It's not just a slogan that became popular even, you know, in a mass media.

It's actually something that nobody's children, especially children from Ukraine, inherit.

And that's something bigger.

You know, it leads to your other question.

What else are they going to inherit?

Are they going to inherit history?

Are they going in, inherit pride or another war that actually, as you mentioned, not, uh, four year or even 12 years actually war that, you know, belongs centuries coming centuries already.

So that's another question.

What are our children going to inherit?

And yeah, that's a peculiar work.

It was made after the war, after I came here.

This is my daughter.

And we.

>> That's your daughter?

>> Yeah, that's the one.

>> How old is she in this?

In this image?

>> Two.

Two.

She's trying to show Trident with her fingers.

You know.

>> I mean, just as someone who's taking in the piece of work.

I'll just say this particular piece of art says to me that, um, war is always unjust, but especially to children who really don't know any better.

And the inheritance that they get is often a world that they didn't choose.

And this poor girl, this beautiful little girl, doesn't understand all the violence and pain that is unfortunately going to be part of the world that she grows into.

>> Exactly, exactly.

We made this picture right, very close to the Ukrainian Independence Day.

And that was very symbolic to my family, to.

>> Um, let's look at the next image from Elena Kondrashova.

Um, very different image, if I could say, go ahead and describe it for the audience who can't see it.

Go ahead.

>> Oh, this is like 18 plus.

So this is image of a couple lying together pointers.

And the title for this image is not a bad.

So it's technically, um, in my mind it was a little reference for at least posture of a very famous picture of Yoko Ono and John Lennon by Anne Leibovitz.

And the point is, that's what I was made after the war, too, right after the war.

And I was trying to tell that you maybe can see there's a bullet shells that they actually lying on.

>> It's not.

They're lying on bullets.

Oh, yes.

Boy, it's a black and white.

They're lying.

And and the man is wearing clothes and the woman is, um, not so much.

>> And.

>> Uh, and they're lying on bullet shells.

>> Yes, yes.

So that's, you know, like, uh, or, uh, inverted version of an Liebowitz.

When Yoko was dressed up and Lennon was naked and that I was trying to show the vulnerability of everyday life and the people once again, people still even love during the war.

It's kind of love on the battlefield, too.

However, the very simple things, as, for example, like in a bed turns into something different.

There's a alert alert instead of, uh, clock alarm in the morning, and there is missiles instead of a sound of the plane.

And there is a sound of a drone attack instead of a sound of motorcycle.

So people still try to live.

However, the background is different.

>> I mean, how are you having sex during an air raid?

I mean, like, that's.

>> You get used to it.

>> That's amazing.

>> I mean, it's a it's a dark and beautiful piece.

And I think, um, very effective in that way.

Uh, I hope the audience is appreciating Elena, Olena and Elena who are with us here.

Thanks to Elena Dilai for reaching out recently.

Um, and as she mentioned earlier this hour saying that, yeah, she's been on the program a number of times.

The local Ukrainian community, we've called on them a number of times to talk about what they are going through, what their friends and family back in Ukraine are going through.

Since the Russian invasion, especially in 2022.

But Elena Dilai said, you know, maybe let's talk about Ukrainian art.

Maybe let's talk about the Ukrainian people and the soul of the people and the art that was there, that was there before, and that will be there long after.

And sometimes the art that does show the suffering and, and the intensity of, of life in war.

Um, and sometimes just the soul of a really resilient people.

So we're really appreciating all three of our guests here, but let's take our only break of the hour.

We'll come back and we're just going to kind of keep exploring this outstanding groups art here on Connections.

>> I'm Evan Dawson Thursday on the next Connections, a coalition of Rochester educators is making the case to get rid of standardized testing.

They are rallying the public for an event next week.

>> To support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Bob Johnson Auto Group.

Believing an informed public makes for a stronger community.

Proud supporter of Connections with Evan Dawson focused on the news, issues and trends that shape the lives of listeners in the Rochester and Finger Lakes regions.

Bob Johnson Auto Group.com.

>> This is Connections.

Let me correct tomorrow's tease here, and I apologize.

I think that was my actual tech mistake there.

Um, and not be the first time tomorrow in our first hour, we're talking about the mass shooting at a mosque in San Diego.

And you're going to hear from members of the local the local Islamic community.

Um, you always, you always hate to have to sit down and talk about another mass shooting in this country.

But here we are.

And, and we'll do that tomorrow in the first hour.

And then we're going to try to lighten things up a little bit with an annual conversation.

Rochester Cocktail Revival is coming back, and we're going to have a little bit of a preview and talk a little bit about history and learning and have some fun in the second hour.

So two very different hours tomorrow.

Today we're talking to Elena Kondrashova and Elena Prokopovych and Elena Dilai, who are all with us talking about their art and the connection to sometimes to the war, sometimes just to their Ukrainian heritage.

Uh, and a couple times we've been talking about Taras Shevchenko here.

In fact, in Elena Dilai, the second piece that we saw from Elena Dilai, one of the children, is holding a book of poetry from Taras Shevchenko.

So who is Taras Shevchenko?

For Americans who don't know this name, Elena.

>> I mean, he's a pillar of Ukrainian culture.

He's an artist, he's a poet, he's a writer, he's a freedom fighter.

He was writing in Ukrainian.

He was, um, promoting Ukrainian independence, and he was imprisoned because of that.

So he is truly the pillar for any Ukrainian in respect to politics and to respect to culture, to art, to writing, to poetry, to everything.

I mean, there's no Ukrainian who doesn't know who Taras Shevchenko is.

>> Okay.

And so, um, Dr.

Prokopovych, is there a way for the English speaking world to better sort of access Shevchenko's ideas?

>> That's the problem that I had to confront when I started teaching a course at Nazareth University on Ukraine.

And the war.

Um, I immediately knew I wanted to set aside not one, but two weeks to try my very best to convey what Shevchenko means for Ukrainians.

And through Shevchenko, what the language, the art, and the heritage means for Ukrainians.

Um, it was not easy because I'm teaching well, young people, of course, right at the university level.

Um, I reached out to YouTube.

I said, I want to show you the just thousands of videos that Ukrainians have created and placed on YouTube.

I just created singing songs that are to to his lyrics, you know, reciting his poetry, et cetera, et cetera.

And as I was choosing a precious, I don't know, playlist of 20 out of thousands, literally thousands, I chanced upon the music that that started my discovery of Baroque.

So it's very personal to me, but there are many translations and there are some current and recent translations of Shevchenko.

You.

Anybody can, you know, everybody can get in touch with the basics.

You know, there's articles, there's there's music.

Um, and, uh, and I think it's very well worth it.

Uh, Shevchenko was a fighter against imperialism, against colonialism, against domination, against oppression of any kind.

And also for decent treatment of people by other people.

He spoke to everybody and to all the problems that we still have, including respectful treatment of each other, especially of the lesser ones, the, the, the marginal ones.

So Shevchenko is relevant to every society, democratic societies, authoritarian societies, everybody can get an inspiration from this.

Just absolutely phenomenal voice for goodness and decency in the world.

>> Can I read some of your words about how Shevchenko maybe moves you a bit and challenges us to think about love of country and what that means?

Can you would you mind if I read some of what you sure Elena sent me this really.

This wonderful document that I wish we had multiple hours with all of you just to spend the day on, on some of what we're talking about today.

But you say, um, that in engaging with this kind of work, people can wonder about the kind of imagery of love of one's country that Shevchenko bequeathed Ukrainians.

And really all of us who would read his verses, this question why, how, how much and for what?

To love one's country is a very urgent one.

In our age, when constructive and progressive patriotism is struggling to make itself heard, while authoritarians are deploying perverted forms, what I would call imperialist, exclusionary and aggressive pseudo patriotisms to achieve their ignoble goals, end quote.

Um.

I found that to be a profound piece of writing about the notion of what love of country truly is, because you're talking about Shevchenko's work.

And obviously his work was about Ukraine, but even today in this country, there is almost a weaponization of patriotism at times, or the notion of patriotism or love of country, or who loves their country the most.

What does the flag symbolize?

And I'm not trying to sort of, um, be unfair or ungenerous or cheeky or flippant, but there are real, I think, parallels to what you're what you're describing for probably people anywhere, especially when authoritarianism is a concern.

>> Indeed, there may be an impression that national poets and national poets, because they just loved their nation and sang it praises.

I take a lot of time to show my students the Shevchenko was one of the most fiercest critics of fellow Ukrainians.

Um, that you can find.

He did not spare words, and he talked to every class of people.

He did not idolize either the poor or the people or the elites.

He had something to say to all of them about what the path to more decent world is.

So, um, Shevchenko, I think is an amazing example of how to love the imperfect people and the nation in a way that inspires them to be better.

Because what he loved, I think, you know, everybody has their own interpretation of Shevchenko.

But I think what he loved is the possibility of alleviating pain of, of living a happy, a happier, decent, kind love of building a society that that makes that possible.

Decent, kind, peaceful life.

He loved the vision and he saw the potential in his people to build exactly that.

And he called to throw off the yoke of Russian imperialism, to throw off the yoke of internal exploitation of people by people, and to build a society that we all are striving for.

Democratic republic and respectful of people's rights, people's choices, people's well-being, treating everybody with utmost kindness and making it a comfortable, decent, dignified life for everybody.

This is what he loved.

He he he loved the idea.

Um, the, a certain idea.

And I think, if I may, I don't want to speak for everybody, but I think we might agree on this idea.

We don't love Ukraine only because we're Ukrainians.

Ukraine is on the right path.

Ukraine is fighting so hard to become the society that people can be proud of.

That's why not only Ukrainians, but millions of Non-ukrainians have given gifts, large or small, have gone out of their way to help Ukraine because Ukraine is on the path to that which we all want, to which we all can respect as a decent society.

>> And yet, what do you think pseudo patriotism is?

>> Pseudo patriotism pursues the goals that are not worthy of us as humans, of excluding people, of imposing the rules that are absolutely unnecessary, of elevating some groups above others.

It's called exclusionary nationalism, you know, and that the most sort of prevalent form these days, it's exclusionary.

It's often either racist or xenophobic or, you know, any number of things to to love one's country is natural.

But, but even more profound, one has to love the people.

Everyone who lives there.

Um, and just be a decent human being.

And that means not harming any groups, not rejecting those groups, not elevating others as the righteous, as the only symbols of, of that nation or the only people deserving of the bounty of the nation.

>> You translate when you when you find time, you say you translate your favorite, uh, parts of Shevchenko's poetry into English.

Is it simply, again, perhaps for your students?

Is it for English speaking audiences?

Is it because you want to then set it to music, uh, yourself?

Uh, what is your purpose with it?

>> Uh, I know I didn't have those ideas.

Uh, translation.

>> To English is extremely difficult.

And with all absolute utmost respect to the translators who, who, who have done a life's work of translating Shevchenko.

I think it can still be improved.

I work on very, very limited pieces of text.

And when I achieve the rhyming and the meter, the English so lax, you know, with ease that Ukrainian has an abundance.

When I can achieve that.

I'm so awfully proud of myself.

I just put it out on the social media.

And, um, if we can do something bigger, that would be wonderful.

But I, amidst all the other things that I do, I haven't thought of anything else.

>> Are there times where you are translating Shevchenko and you think in Ukrainian, this word or this phrase means something very specific, and there may not be a perfect translation for English.

And how do you represent that?

Does that happen?

>> Oh, it happens all the time.

It's it's worse than that.

Um, Shevchenko's voice is a voice of a person and a particular imperialist situation of a person who's fighting and really, really sacrificing their life for the idea that their people can build their own decent, autonomous, independent society.

And to read it in English.

American English especially is actually very difficult and confusing because American English is is a language of a country that is very confident, very wealthy, very successful.

Right.

Um, however, such words in English, uh, could sound somewhat closer to the meaning if we read them from the point of view of the people whose lives are not that easy, the people who have to struggle for something.

Uh, and we have plenty of people who have to struggle in this society.

And therefore, if you bear that in mind that, that the poetry is coming from a decentered position, from a non-privileged position, but also from a position of a fighter, somebody who knows what decent life is and is not going to normalize brutality or anything like this.

Then I think in English, um, it, you know, most of it can be accessed.

>> Well, someday Stabat Mater is going to travel around the world, performed in Ukrainian thanks to Elena Prokopovych and someday, perhaps more, uh, translation of of Shevchenko will be possible and or accessible to English speakers.

But in the meantime, where would you direct people if they want to learn more about Shevchenko?

Where do you start?

>> Uh, there's an official Shevchenko site.

>> Um it and it and it contains the largest number of collected Ukrainian translations.

Um, I would also direct them to YouTube.

There are English dubbed or even English language documentaries about the life of this incredible person.

Um, there's a wealth of everything there.

So between YouTube and the web, and for those who love books, there are recent very direct English translation from it doesn't rhyme, it doesn't doesn't preserve the meter, but it is the most literal and almost brutal translation of the words of the great poet.

>> Well, let's turn back to, um, fine art and photography, and I'm going to turn to Elena Dilai.

I think the third piece we have from Elena Dilai here.

Let's take a look at this.

And again, if you're just joining us, we are talking to three artists in their own right who are talking to us about their Ukrainian heritage, the meaning of art, and their lives.

Maybe what we all can learn and share from that.

Um, in the context of the last four years, but far, far beyond that.

And Elena Dilai is going to describe what we see on YouTube.

So if you're on YouTube, you can see the image here, but if you're not on YouTube, Elena is going to describe this next one.

Go ahead.

>> Well, well, the description is quite simple.

It's two children, two young children in Ukrainian blouses sitting in front of an empty suitcase, which is turned kind of vertically to show that there is nothing in the suitcase but two pictures and to, um, school diplomas, uh, elementary school diplomas.

Uh, and this is part of the bigger project that I've done, which was called My Suitcase the Faces of Ukrainian Refugees.

And the idea came at the beginning of the war, when in the first few months we had to and I volunteered for Maidan, a nonprofit that helps Ukraine with medical and humanitarian assistance.

And we the only way we could send medical supplies to Ukraine in the first months of war was when we packed them in actual suitcases and sent them by air.

Mhm.

And we very quickly emptied our own basements of suitcases and reached out to the community.

The community responded.

We had more suitcases than we ever envisioned would be.

But one day I was.

And we've used most of them, by the way.

But one day I was leaving the warehouse and I saw this beautiful row of very bright, colorful suitcases.

They were from 50, 60, 70.

We couldn't use them because they were too heavy, but all I could think of, um, the news at the time was about millions of Ukrainians fleeing the country, millions being scattered around the world, going to a variety of countries all over the world, and coming here to Rochester as well.

And I was standing there and I was thinking, what do you put in a suitcase?

How do you pack your whole house, your whole livelihood in a suitcase and leave the country?

Like, what do you do?

And I had that idea to photograph refugees.

And when I started approaching people, I thought that I would photograph 50, 60, 70, I don't know, I had this project, and then I realized that it was too, too delicate of a topic.

People didn't want to be photographed.

They did not want to be labeled as refugees.

And I the project evolved into a much smaller scale.

This is a suitcase of Svetlana, who ran from Ukraine.

Her husband was left at the front lines.

She had nothing in her suitcase.

It was empty.

She had two kids.

Each one brought a toy.

She brought two pictures and their diplomas from elementary school to prove that they had some education.

And that was heartbreaking.

Absolutely heartbreaking.

But what it does to me, this I've displayed it in libraries.

Image City photography gallery around town, and it put the face to the numbers.

You know, not everyone can comprehend the difficulties of war from imagery.

People sometimes turn away if images are too difficult to look at, and my style is beauty.

I'm not a war photographer.

I'm not a journalist.

I can't document the the terrible things that are happening with the war.

But what I can do, I can turn it into something people actually can look at.

And perhaps I can send a message in a different way than just a journalistic photographer would.

So that's part of that.

My suitcase project.

>> And I think the next image we have is also.

Yeah, go ahead.

Elena.

>> Yeah, this is Marichka, who is standing with her suitcase, which is filled with Polaroid photos.

She was in a university of Kharkiv.

And then you see an embroidered blouse in that suitcase.

The blouse was made by her grandmother when the war started.

The photos are from the day before, when her and her friends went just to have fun.

And then in the morning, they were told that there was war.

They had to run away.

They were in disbelief.

They couldn't find a way to get a train ticket.

She was fortunate to secure it.

And then a long, long, long trip, I don't know, I think it took them two.

It took them two days through bombing to get to the western Ukraine.

And then she realized that she forgot her embroidered blouse in a dormitory.

So there was a whole story how National Guard, like people went and got that blouse, and then they brought it to her, and that was her priceless possession.

That is what she wanted to bring here.

Uh, and stories like that, they put faces to the millions, to these numbers that we see in the news, because numbers are nothing.

People read the numbers and they, they are detached from it.

But when you tell a story and you show a photo, then all of a sudden there was a face.

>> Oh, there's such brilliance in this idea.

Because you're right.

We, we hear about how many how many Ukrainians have left Ukraine, how many, you know, fled in the early days to Poland, how many are around the world?

How many have come to the United States?

And then when you see them standing with a nearly empty suitcase, it's very, very powerful.

>> You realize what it is like.

>> Yeah.

Really powerful.

Um, let's take a look at a couple from Elena Kondrashova as well here.

So this next image once again, Elena you're up here, we're going to describe for the, the listening audience what we are seeing in.

Go ahead there.

We're going to see it on YouTube first, and then Elena's going to tell us about it.

It looks like a woman who is pregnant.

Go ahead.

>> Exactly.

That's a pregnant lady that was sitting in the shadows.

I painted her body in a ancestor.

Motifs of a Ukrainian ancestor.

It's not even a tribe.

It's like a. Ancestor.

People who were living before, uh, before Kyiv.

Rus was formed.

Mhm.

And that's very symbolic for us.

For all the Ukrainians, because we keep, uh.

Cultivating our traditions and keeping them alive and trying to preserve them.

And that's exactly what I was trying to show in this picture, because that's a pregnancy during the war.

So the question is, what's going to happen next?

And, uh, you know what we are hoping for, what we are trying to cultivate to survive, to protect and all this question.

>> Is there a name for this one?

>> Yes.

Ancestors.

>> Ancestors.

>> Ancestry, ancestry.

I guess this one.

>> Beautiful.

Um, and then we've got one more we can share from Olena Kondrashova as well here.

Um, let's go ahead and do that.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

Elena.

>> This one is one of my favorites and it's, uh, echoing to Elena's work that what she's doing with baroque music because the title for this one is no Pieta.

And that's saying that for most of Ukrainians, mothers, there's no Pieta, there's no sacred reservation afterwards.

It's that's a moment where there's feeling there's nothing, no glory, a hat.

And that's mostly a question mark.

Like what's what's happening next?

Because this is, oh, I forget.

>> Go ahead.

You can describe it.

>> The audience.

I forget to describe it.

So there is a female figure standing in a black dress and a male figure lying on the table on the surface underneath her, and, uh, from my opinion, it looked quite from like Baroque, by the way, paintings, especially of the of the French artists and Renaissance painting as well of Italian artists.

So that's why it refers to the Pieta or non Pieta, you know, like it's like no one, non-sacred paintings or non um, religious painting, like something opposite something that turns you into an idea that there is sometimes no even time for mourning.

However, once again, the there's light.

At least we should see it in the most dark places because usually that's, that's when the sun rises after the darkest time.

>> Yeah.

Off off frame.

There's clearly a window of some kind and some light coming through through.

>> I work with a natural life light only, so that's why it's all natural light.

And you're absolutely right.

That's the window.

>> Um, where can people find more of your work?

>> Instagram, Instagram mostly.

>> Elena Kondrashova on Instagram Elena Dilai.

Where would people find more of your work?

>> Well, I, I do own a portrait studio, so I have a website, Elena Dilai.com, but in parallel to my commission work, I always do artwork, which I showed at the Image City Photography Gallery.

Primarily, I've been visiting artists more times than I can count.

Um, and other venues around town.

>> Okay, 30s apiece.

This is going to go fast here.

What do you want to leave with the audience?

As we think about the way that, um, art can connect people.

>> Art can create an entry point for empathy.

Art should be beautiful, should be consumed, and should be interpreted in a way not just as it meant, but as someone can interpret it.

>> An entry point for empathy.

Amazing.

Uh, what do you think?

Elena Kondrashova.

>> Oh, that's a tough one.

Uh, art.

Art can explain things that can not be explained by language.

It's something that you can show from inside.

Basically your inspiration that usually not verbal.

>> Wasn't that tough.

You nailed it.

That was amazing.

Elena Prokopovych.

>> I guess I would want to leave people with a call to, um, see or hear art and make art if they're so inclined.

Um, that elevates us.

Um, above the petty conflicts and reminds us that we're meant for beauty and kindness.

That's what humans are capable of.

That's where they should always aim.

>> You know, you and you send us this, this document that tells us for me, for me, it was an education.

But part of the I think the challenge for consumers of art is understanding the intention sometimes, and sometimes it's up to the consumer to find of a piece of art.

What do you find in this?

What do you see in this?

What do you feel might not always line up with what the creator has intended?

That's okay.

Um, but this hour has just been very, very easy to feel and understand because you all translate it so well in your own ways.

I want to thank you all for taking the time to be here with us.

I want to thank our YouTube audience for hanging in there and appreciating the visuals here, and we'll continue to try to share great artwork and keep coming back.

Sometimes.

I really appreciate all you being here.

>> Thank you.

Thank you so much.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you and Elena Dilai, thank you for the push on this.

>> That's right.

Thank you.

>> Elena great conversation.

Linda.

>> I'm glad it worked out.

>> Dr.. Olena Prokopovych.

Elena.

Kondrashova.

Thanks to all of you and from all of us.

At Connections thanks for watching.

Thanks for listening.

We're back with you tomorrow on member supported public media.

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