found something special today concerning public television and how it gets to you we've had a lot of interesting hops over the past 10 or 15 years when it comes to technology you might remember in the late O's on 809 they change over to digital which was not easy but we got there and we're very pleased to talk about the next step something called atsc 3.0 you'll find out what that is in just a quick second we're joined by Lana Thompson she is the CEO and general counsel for America America's public television stations a sister uh organization to Corporation for Public Broadcasting and for PBS and Lana thank you very much for joining us it's you know it's interesting I'm so loathed to throw out terms and Technical terms and things I know it's a challenge for your organization but let's stick to next-gen television how's that work for the meantime well to get into ATS atcs SC sorry in a quick second what is next gen tell TV what's going on here and why should our PBS viewers uh be uh kind of sitting up in their seats about it well thanks thanks for having me Gene I'm excited to talk about next-gen TV as you said when we went from analog to digital it was a game changer because the digital capacity was so so much greater we had the same amount of spectrum but the capability to use it in a more uh Rich way uh was just great for us well this is even more of that so we are now going from atsc 1.0 to atsc 3.0 that just doesn't roll off the tongue in an exciting way so we've called it next-gen TV Next Generation television um and what that will do what that change will do is to allow us to use our our Spectrum even more fully uh and the most exciting part about it is it's a new basis it's Internet Protocol IP based so it's the television will be able to do what a computer does so it'll allow interactivity and all kinds of other functions that we think um viewers and and communities will really enjoy you know it's interesting you mentioned that I have a quote-unquote smart TV here at the house and when I first got it I was actually kind of shocked what you can do with the television now was really new to me and I was sort of taken aback actually but it's not hard to see Lana let's start with education and what this means for homes uh PBS viewers who do not have internet to the home we finally have a solution to this this is actually kind of exciting it really is exciting I I will say right up front uh it's still broadcast television so it's not two-way in terms of you know materials going to a student and the students sending uh his or her test back but um but it does allow a capability for a student in a home without internet to get the all the same materials uh and have all the same capabilities that um the colleague has with internet um so what we do is use a system called Data casting and it's it's it's data that um follows the broadcast signal so as the broadcast signal goes on on your television set you'll see whatever's being broadcast um a New Mexico PBS show on TV uh and then at the same time data is traveling and can be received by a small receiver um it's uh on the market now off the shelf you know for about a hundred dollars hundred twenty dollars and um the data allows the student to um receive um on its on on the computer the materials that the teacher uploads when a teacher uploads the materials uh to the cloud uh the both signals can can can capture the broad the data casting and the um the IP based internet uh so this allows you know these allows students to be able to learn in the same manner that other students are learning this was particularly important during um the pandemic and a number of our states realize that and they with the covert relief funding they provided data cast and equipment to the stations and receivers to the households um an example is our South Carolina educational television it's a Statewide Network about 20 percent of the homes in South Carolina do not have access to the internet so the governor used funding to get receivers into all those homes um so it's it's it's very aligned to our mission of education and it's a new exciting technological tool we can use it really is it's so robust as I'm reading it I mean it you know sometimes when people get something that's not quite On a par with what everybody else is using and I'm talking about your financial situation in your home you're always working with sort of a subpar system this however puts people on a par what would take about 4K it's going to look just as good as anybody else's household I mean it's just nature shows I mean this is what we do it's very interesting that way when you consider it and let me throw a kind of a technical thing at you as I'm reading it seems like you're able to pack a lot more information into the pipe as it stands now and have it come out in the other end of the in a person's household am I on the right track on that yes yes you are Gene and that's absolutely correct that's the exciting part of it um we will have at least a third to almost a half more capacity than is currently the same amount of spectrum but more capacity than is currently being being utilized so broadcasters are really excited and thinking about um all the interactivity it it also allows geo-targeting so if you're watching a documentary and you you think say I'd like to know where that location is um you can you can say show me a map and and the map will come you know the screen within the screen um if you want to know statistics about something you can ask um and of course it allows uh will allow public broad broadcasters to be more specific in what their viewers want to see so if you you know you like all Ken Burns documentaries then you'll you could have a library available of those targeted for you so it it it's very um it's very consumer friendly it's very um it's very rich in terms of um educational uses Lana um I'm curious what you're seeing out there I know it's a little bit earlier but you might be seeing some uses out there uh with this new Spectrum not quite best practices again we're a little early on this but any indicators out there from other uh systems out there how they're using this extra Spectrum we have uh we have a number of our stations that are now broadcasting in atsc 3.0 and uh and they are utilizing the Spectrum for education for Public Safety uses um it's very exciting because it's very mobile uh so uh first responder can be a moving in a car and uh could be getting downloads of data um you know a firefighter with wildfires can get downloads of evacuation Maps um and that sort of thing um so we're looking at Public Safety then we're also looking at applications like Precision agriculture for updating farm equipment with with data updates for weather alerts um for sensors uh in the in the fields and being able to bring the data back um for precision agriculture um one of our stations is talking uh with its government about smart cities and what the what that they could do in terms of next-gen TV and being involved in part of that um so there are a lot of Rich uses like that that are being explored and and you know and of course over-the-air content television set you know looking at all the exciting pictures and and the quality of sound is greater so it's it's uh I think it consumers will enjoy it the one thing that is um consumers need to know is that this is not Backward Compatible so you may remember when we went from analog to digital there was a free coupon to get a free converter box and uh you could go and get that box and that would then turn your set from analog to digital um we're looking at having um the same kind of program I don't know if the government would fund it but it may be television Vision broadcasters provide those boxes or it may be that the set the television sets drop so low consumers will want those um but if not there's there is on the market it's it retails for less than a hundred dollars right now A converter box that you can you can then have um 3.0 without having to buy a new set although the lowest sets on the market now are in the uh like 400 something for 99 or something and there's several television manufacturers that are putting a lot of next-gen TV sets uh into the market that's that's a fair point you know I again I'm my TV is less than six months old or maybe four months old now they think about it and you know there's upgrades coming all the time and so even with those set-top boxes you mentioned it's interesting I think back to when we were going digital those original boxes are long gone right exactly every place very quickly by a better box and so it'll happen this time around too as Tech goes um can I get you to Circle back brother we're talking to Lana Thompson she's the CEO and general counsel for American public television stations talking about an exciting new Endeavor for public TV when it comes to how you get it at home in the next gen of television with not much sweat to get there as we were just saying with this next set-top box to be able to plug in or with a new television if you're in the in the and I have to say without irony of course today is the day there's a certain giant online retailer selling a lot of TVs today for our TVs for cheap so law enforcement and Public Safety this is something our general manager Franjo Keane has been talking about with very much excitement with me and others in our building for about a year Lana honestly he has been literally rubbing his hands together to get involved with law enforcement and Public Safety to be an asset to these folks in a way they couldn't even have dreamed possible and now you've got this situation now what you just mentioned with the uh the unit going into a police car let's let's expand on that a little bit and see and talk about what the potentials are for Public Safety with this system it's it is very exciting and and uh the mobile nature of it will make a big difference as well the building penetration is excellent in next-gen TV we're doing data casting now in our 1.0 series but again that will expand as well greatly with 3.0 and and um I know New Mexico PBS has been looking at this with this 3.0 signal and doing experimentation um but the the great thing about it is that video requires a lot of bandwidth and that's what makes it difficult for cell phone providers sometimes because their systems were overload because of the bandwidth and it's point to point television is one to many so we could be broadcasting to a hundred First Responders to a thousand you know um thousands without um without any overload and so we can do um we can do uh any kind of video or data like uh so so my example why wildfires you know um it's it's critical first of all cell phone towers go down and in wildfires and I mean hundreds and and second of all we can't get to the the um firefighters so if they had a you know and the small wearable receiver I mean they're little um they could be getting uh Zone uh drone video to show them where the fire is they could be getting um um evacuation Maps now again it's not two-way but they all carry an LMR radio that they could radio back received uh and the important thing is that they would have they would have the ability to know where the fires were traveling um and um similarly with um school safety it's been tested with school safety particularly important where there are multiple jurisdictions that come together with different systems so with the data casting they can all be receiving the same information um and you know baby video in hallways to show where this the safety incidents occurring and that sort of thing who has been tested in there in those that situation as well um we are organizations signed an uh a memo of understanding with the Department of Homeland Security several years ago and their Science and Technology division did about 12 or 14 tests of different scenarios in public safety for First Responders and it worked well in every case uh right now our our stations in California are working with the California office of emergency service to help improve early earthquake warnings um so the through data casting they they could get the connect with connection to shake alert which puts out the early as soon as the Tremors begin and that buys a long time I mean seconds but a long time for um in for for example Firehouse Doors to go up so they're not jammed and and the trucks to get out so um all of our California stations there we have um six that are up and running uh and then um five that are up and running and six more being uh put in place over the next two years and they've reduced the early earthquake warnings down to a second which is amazing so as soon as that shake alert notice comes uh the the early Earthquake warning hit from the data traveling through the station to the receiver at the first responder is one second which is was so surprising the earlier they were hoping earlier for 30 seconds and then you know with data casting got down to one second so there there are a lot of um a lot of wonderful Public Safety uses that's a that's fascinating and one of the things I read in the information about it that really kind of got me um is the ability to wake these receivers if they are off yes people in their homes or public you know safety people that's astounding actually when you think about the ramifications of that talk about that if you would it really is exciting and that that's one of the um that we we call the Next Generation warning system but the alert and warning will be so much more effective uh and much more information I mean uh you know so waking up the sets is exciting and right now you know we're limit limited with Amber Alerts you're limited to a certain amount of you know on your cell phone well like you could do unlimited data really uh that would help uh you know track down in an amber alert so the technology will really facilitate Alert warning for for um folks it really when you think about again uh back east as we sit here plotting is a tremendous problem we've got over 100 people evacuated in Vermont this morning we have deaths in Upstate New York it's a reality of our fires floods it's the reality of our existence and I have to say the idea of having better timed more accurate more uh centralized not centralized it's not the word I'm looking for more direct targeted uh emergency information this is the time I mean this is really the moment in our history exactly and that's that is exciting the geo-targeting of emergency information you know a lot of times people get tired of alerts going off you know and it's not it's not even it's four counties over so you know now alerts are are can be targeted to counties but this could be targeted to neighborhoods you know regions small small areas that um should improve people's reactions to alert and warning as well I couldn't I couldn't agree with you more Lana that's an excellent take right there because folks I've talked about this endlessly in my years in broadcasting folks don't hear those emergency things anymore no they just don't hear them they're second to hear that hideous noise they just click right off and and nobody hears the information so I appreciate you saying that I've got a couple more questions here the idea or the the fact that you can second stream second screen stream as well as very exciting because 75 or more percent of us have a phone in our hand at the same time we're watching our televisions and for folks who don't know that that might shock them but I appreciate them for your the fact that you're moving into that reality instead of fighting it actually talk about that second screen if you would yeah that's exactly it um and you know of course commercial broadcasters are looking at the applicability around advertisements or you know you might want to just go ahead and order something and but we you know we of course public broadcasters don't don't advertise um so we're looking at more educational uses um and so uh so you know it think a parent a child for example watching a show the child has a question the parent as you said rather than Googling on the phone can say well let's find out and interact with your television set um or you you know you can if you're you know can you show me more those like that more shows by the same producer that sort of thing um and so it really it really is to make to enhance really enhance the uh the viewers experience uh with with public television let's bring it home to New Mexico as we finish up your lawn I really appreciate your time today I know you're doing this all around the country where do we say to New Mexico again I mentioned our general manager has been talking about this anticipating this and using the 1.0 for a while now where does New Mexico fit into this and how soon are we going to get going if we're not quite there yet you well you guys are there physically and now the uses will begin so um your general manager Francois was very insightful he began looking at next-gen TV before the rules were even passed by the FCC working with your board uh which was also very insightful and they um uh because there's a duopoly the Santa Fe Albuquerque stations uh what the FCC rules require is that you can't just shut off your 1.0 signal and do 3.0 because until viewers actually have the set-top box to convert we don't want to leave viewers behind so so you have to you have to share with another station in your Market or multiple stations and some take 1.0 and some take 3.0 well because New Mexico PBS has locations in Santa Fe and Albuquerque a duopoly um uh foreign realized he could shut off one of the the Santa Fe Station and 1.0 and put it into 3.0 and then still cover with the Albuquerque station so now uh people were able to receive both 1.0 and 3.0 and throughout your market and in addition with the 3.0 he's doing very creative things as you were saying um and I agree in public safety and education um and so that's such a game changer went for homes without internet and very rural areas um where there isn't internet doesn't even exist so it's in urban areas where certain uh homes cannot afford internet so or even when they have internet sometimes it's spotty because the service isn't it isn't um either they're on the fringes so we hear it from our translator folks who hear it all the time yeah if you just know Zone that doesn't quite overlap it right right so it's it's it's uh so New Mexico PBS is one of the early adopters and really are leading in terms of exciting exciting uses um in fact our uh station in uh New York City wnet as a duopoly they were thinking about doing it and I told that uh station folks you need to talk to Franz Joachim and New Mexico PBS folks and they did and the New York station did the same thing so it's uh it's uh very exciting to be on The Cutting Edge and and I applaud you and all the rest of the New Mexico PBS folks I appreciate that our general manager I'm telling you yeah I'm telling you he's been on this he knows what's up with this it's really he's been a little frustrated getting others to believe in it but now that we're going you know people are going to come to him and say oh I think I know what you were talking about a year ago so that's exactly it we uh yeah we awarded him our um in a tech we we have a mass a big public media Summit every year last week in February my organization apts and we do yearly uh Innovation and Technology award and Franz won the award because he's been he was so uh uh so insightful in terms of looking ahead and and we're you know whereas to be and serving your community better I mean it's all that's what it's all about you know we're Public public media we we serve the public so you know the better service the better for everyone I couldn't agree thank you for putting it that way it's not fun and games for us it's not about you know video games it's about helping people in their everyday lives yes educate their kids how to stay safe how to make plans for the future you know we take that kind of thing seriously here as you know New Mexico has a lot of need and we feel our position in it you know is important so technology has a place in that let me ask you one more question I appreciate I said I had one more two questions ago is there an AI component artificial intelligence component to this at all it's something we're asking uh just almost out of wrote with every new thing that we're going now should people have a not just a concern is not a word but is there an AI component that folks should be aware of um some stations are looking at and thinking about AI uses um and you know with anything um with with data on people you know the more it more interactivity the more more data Gathering um we have to be concerned about privacy always but public television is very very careful about that even now on web their websites and and uses like that so um I mean it has to be respected but um there um there was actually just an article uh that I saw about uh AI possible AI uses in with next-gen TV so I think you're absolutely right I think that'll be around the corner it's a natural fit you can see it again my limited knowledge of AI you can see something that's going to work and if it's just as simple as pushing out information in a timely manner that's already set up you know AI can certainly do all of those kind of things as we know a lot I can't I can't thank you enough for this Lana Thompson CEO and general counsel for American public television stations talk about next-gen TV for Public Broadcasting and it's very exciting thank you for making it exciting the way you explaining it I'm super excited I can't wait no but if we can you know down the road if we can reach out to you if there's some new 3.5 4.0 whatever yeah you know as these things go we'd love to talk to you again and let our viewers know what the latest and greatest is if you'd be so kind thank you I would enjoy that thanks for having me on the show Gene I appreciate it absolutely absolutely it's our pleasure and folks we'll see you Friday night we're continuing our talk about the state of media where it is right now all across New Mexico we hope we you enjoyed this bit of it as well because technology has its place when you talk about media in the media landscape so until Friday night at 7 Channel 5.1 take care stay out of the heat all right that includes you back East Lana right exactly take care