>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in what Republicans called the big beautiful bill.

We're talking this hour about the Trump administration's move to get rid of federal supports for clean energy, whether it's large scale projects, big wind projects.

The president really doesn't like wind energy, or whether it's for tax credits for homeowners and solar.

NPR reported recently.

Quote, if you've wanted to install rooftop solar panels or buy an electric vehicle in recent years, you've probably been able to get federal money for them in the form of tax credits.

But those incentives are going away now.

Now that President Trump signed what he called the big beautiful bill into law in July, that means in the coming months, there will be a hurry up and buy limited time offer kind of dynamic to get these government incentives, end quote.

And NPR also quotes Ari Matusiak, CEO of the nonprofit Rewiring America.

Matusiak says, quote, if you want access to them, then you really need to get going, end quote.

But then we also see these conflicting headlines.

Bloomberg says the U.S.

keeps breaking renewable energy records.

The Politico notes the Trump administration deepens its crackdown on solar and wind tax credits.

I mentioned NPR Trump administration halts work on almost finished wind farm.

Houston Public Media reporting on a Texas solar program left in limbo after the Trump administration pulled the plug.

So I was wondering, how are we, as a country breaking renewable energy records when the federal government seems to be hostile to this kind of energy?

What is actually going on?

And frankly, for homeowners, for individuals, what's going on with these tax credits?

What's the latest and what should we know?

There is someone who can help us answer these questions.

And it's the CEO of Greenspark Solar.

Kevin Schulte back with us.

Nice to see you.

Thanks for being here.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> I want to mention right off the top, because Kevin is a somewhat frequent guest, and he always says he says yes because he's a nice guy.

Once in a while you'll hear Green Spark underwrites with us.

That has nothing to do.

I had forgotten this until last week.

Somebody mentioned that.

So I mean, I I've never even talked to you about this, but I just want to put it out there for listeners that it has got nothing to do with why you're on the program today.

Is that all right?

>> That's fine with me.

>> okay.

And your competitors?

I'm sure there are.

Some are also welcome.

So if you work in solar.

Kevin's not the only guy.

There's a lot of people who can talk about this, but Kevin is here this hour.

And let me let me just start with a question.

How are we breaking renewable energy records with a government that seems hostile to renewable energy?

What's going on?

>> Well, I think the probably the most important thing for, for folks to understand is that as, as well the world, the word that I use for the H.R.

one, I refuse to call it the name that you use.

>> The big, beautiful bill.

>> the is cruel, right?

It's cruel from the perspective of you know, food assistance and health care and all of these sort of things.

And it's cruel to the earth in terms of cutting the dynamics of fossil fuels.

But it is politically, politically brilliant.

Why 2026 is a midterm election?

Most of the impacts of these programs won't actually hit voters until at or after the midterm election.

>> Medicaid cuts.

>> Medicaid.

>> Possibly food.

Snap assistance.

>> Correct.

And with the clean energy subsidies, not not with some of the clean energy subsidies, they really won't take effect until after that election as well.

That part does not apply to the subsidies that are directly for homeowners to take advantage of solar or heat pumps or electric vehicles, et cetera.

all all of the consumer credits.

So all of the tax credits that that allowed homeowners well, helped homeowners make the choice.

Homeowners make the choice to go solar or an EV or A or electric heat pump, et cetera.

all of those have been eliminated at the end of this year.

At the end of 2025, and for electric vehicles even sooner, you'll see every electric vehicle manufacturer right now has ads out.

Bye bye.

You have to buy the car by September 30th in order to take the advantage of the tax credit.

So we encourage people to look into those options.

>> okay, you called the bill cruel, cruel.

Tell me more about why you're using that word.

>> Well, I think it's cruel.

I think it's cruel on so many human levels.

But, you know, the the, the IMF in 2023.

In said that the the world spent $7 trillion on fossil fuel subsidies.

That's like 7% of the global GDP.

No one knows that.

No one understands.

You know, we're complaining that people are out there complaining about, oh, you're spending money on a solar tax credit.

Well, no, you're spending money on fossil fuel tax credits and you just don't know it.

And so in the energy space where that money is sometimes spent, but always a cost is in human health in, you know, the societal costs associated with fossil fuels.

And so I think that's a cruel way to treat taxpayers, that you're just going to keep paying the bill for all of this stuff when 77% of Americans have said they believe in climate change, and we should do something about it, and you're continuing to hide both implicit and explicit subsidies for fossil fuels.

A grave, for instance.

Right.

Everybody in Rochester is excited about the High Falls State Park coming over the next couple of years.

Right?

$25 million of federal dollars are being used to clean up from the coal gasification plant that used to exist where High Falls State Park.

No one counts that as a fossil fuel subsidy.

But what else is it?

They dirtied it.

The government's cleaning it up and you benefit.

And so you've subsidized the cleanup of a previous fossil fuel plant.

And to me, that's that's all of the stuff that that they're doing.

And to me, I call that I think that's cruel because I think it's dishonest.

>> I think the Republicans in Congress and maybe the Trump administration would say something like this when it comes to transportation, roads, obviously, roads are paid for and and cared for infrastructure by the government.

But if you want to put a fancy new kind of road, we might talk about, well, are we subsidizing that?

And Kevin Schulte might say, well, you're subsidizing regular roads.

I think they view fossil fuels as the regular.

It's so embedded into the culture that they don't think of it as a subsidized in the same way that new energy or clean energy would be in a way that they can point to and say, are you sure you want your tax dollars going to this solar project or this wind project without even thinking about the tax dollars going to oil, going to fossil fuels?

>> Well, the implicit subsidy there is, they're putting a gas station next to the highway for you to fill up your car with federal or state dollars and, and and only now in the last three years are they putting also electric vehicle charging with any level of government support, which they just got rid of.

Right.

So like, you know, the whole system is set up to support those technologies.

And that's why I think it's both explicit.

You know, the big beautiful bill, the H.R.

one I promised I wasn't going to say that.

And I did but H.R.

one added $35 billion annually of fossil fuel subsidies, $35 billion annually to fossil fuel subsidies.

I mean, I just it's a remarkable figure, right?

That's more than they've ever paid in clean energy subsidies.

And that's just direct.

Great.

For instance, master limited partnerships, it's a it's a this is going to be very wonky.

Is a tax structure a federal tax structure allowed for by oil producers, not allowed for by clean energy producers.

What does a master limited partnership do?

It allows private businesses that are mining for oil to not pay income tax.

I mean, what are we what?

So from my perspective, it's cruel because we'll just give us the same treatment if that's the way we want to play it, fine.

Just give a solar project the ability to be treated as a master, master, limited partnership.

And now we're on even ground.

Right.

But that that's that's just where like, adds up to this sort of cruelness that that I just don't I just don't think it's good public policy.

>> You have said on this program a number of times over the years that you would take the chance just to compete on an even footing with fossil fuels.

Why do you think, at this point, as we head into 2026, you have a bunch of people who, in leading the federal government who support capitalism, who are entrepreneurs, who want to support open markets.

Why do would they oppose?

Why would they oppose giving you a chance just to compete on an even ground with oil, with gas, with fossil fuels?

>> The estimate on how much money that the fossil fuel industry in the United States put into political campaigns was 500.

Billion dollars, or million dollars.

So the our industry just can't compete at that level of paying for and buying campaigns.

And so that's why they're getting the policy.

>> Are you implying that money moves votes in Washington?

>> Yes.

>> okay.

>> I'm not implying it.

I'm stating it very directly.

Right.

So they're they're the politicians are bought and paid for, right?

I mean, this is the way this government works because of a number of reasons which are not my expertise and we shouldn't talk about.

But like, so that's why they're betting on it.

Right.

That and like, you know, our president has a golf course in Scotland with an offshore wind farm off the coast of it that he doesn't like to look at.

Therefore he hates offshore wind and has made up a whole bunch of technical lies as to why he doesn't like it.

Right?

Like, that's that's the nexus of why he doesn't like it.

So which is fine.

But the reality is simple, right?

Removing the conversation around subsidies and who pays for it?

The cost of wind, the cost of solar.

The cost of storage are the cheapest three forms of electricity and the fastest to deploy available on our grid today.

At any scale.

From a residence.

Doing it for themselves to, you know, a community doing it for themselves, to the utilities, doing it for themselves.

It's the cheapest.

It's the fastest.

Deploy independent of all federal support.

So what you've done by eliminating government support and maintaining or increasing government support for fossil fuels, nuclear power, et cetera., is you've just made the grid more expensive.

That's it.

And so what our industry is now looking at and saying, fine, you want to make the grid more expensive?

Well, guess what, I spend all my capital at the beginning because my fuel is free.

Sun's going to shine in, the wind's going to blow.

So my fuel is free.

So I'm going to go now and I'm going to chase revenue.

Right.

So you've made the grid more expensive.

Power prices are already up significantly.

They're up from tariffs.

They're up from cost of fuel.

They're up from a million different reasons.

Everyone here in Rochester sees their electric bills going up.

Right.

So I will chase that revenue for myself and for my customers in order to be competitive.

And we think that will be successful over time because we're still, again, independent of subsidies and everything else.

We're the cheapest, fastest to deploy.

>> Assuming what you're telling me there is true, it would be true not just in the United States of America.

It would be true in anywhere around the world.

And so does this administration stand to put this country behind other countries?

No doubt.

Yes.

>> I mean, listen, the fastest deploying renewable energy country on earth right now is China.

China is currently winning.

I just almost cursed for the first time I've ever been on your program, but I almost cursed.

But they are kicking our butts badly.

>> You're doing a good job of self-editing.

>> They're doing a they're.

They're kicking our butts on clean energy.

And because of it, they can build more A.I.

data centers faster.

And they're going to they're going to end up winning.

And that is a direct result, in my opinion, of of the of what H.R.

one did to, to this country.

>> Now, you mentioned A.I.

That's interesting.

A.I.

and crypto need a lot of energy.

>> A lot of.

>> Energy, a lot of energy.

China is not going to be pursuing cleaner energy just for charitable reasons.

They're not doing it just to feel good about.

They would be doing it pragmatically.

That's it.

Yeah, yeah.

>> That's it.

I mean, they, they they've gone after the cheapest, fastest deploy form of energy because they want to build their data center and they want to have the energy to supply it.

So what does that solar and batteries, wind and batteries.

And now all of a sudden they have steady load power to power their their data centers, latency be gone.

And all of a sudden, you know, they're off to the races in a way that we can't because what's, what's going to happen in the United States is as a data center gets built, it will draw the attention of utility scale power.

And in order to suppress consumption at a retail level for consumers like homeowners, our utilities will just raise the rates because they that's the easiest thing to do to slow the flow of power down.

So now the rates are up, and either people will recognize that and turn their lights off, or they will pay higher bills.

They will have their air conditioner on and we will experience blackouts.

Those are the likely outcomes, in my opinion, from this.

>> So let me bring it back now for homeowners.

and if you're just joining the program, Kevin Schulte, the CEO of Greenspark Solar is my guest.

We're talking about some of the effects of federal legislation passed, at least in part in the so-called big beautiful bill.

And we're talking about what this means for you if you're interested in solar at home.

EV credits, things like that.

It's 844295 talk.

If you've got questions or comments.

8442958255263 WXXI.

If you call from Rochester 2639994, email the program Connections at WXXI.

If you're watching on YouTube, you can join the chat there.

Thank you for watching.

Thanks for being with us.

It's pledge week.

This is a big week for us.

And so I appreciate that.

I hope everyone listening is is a member of public media.

If you can afford it in any way.

And it's easy to do that at wxxi.org, that's all I'll say about that for now.

So let's back it up for for the timeline here.

So you mentioned it's the end of this year for what exactly, Kevin, what do people need to know if they've been thinking about solar.?

>> All the consumer tax credits.

So if you previously available to a person who owns a home that was going to move forward with solar, you would get a 30% federal tax credit, reducing your cost of going solar.

Similarly, you would get up to an $8,000 tax credit on a heat pump.

you know, there's tax credits available, EV charging, home energy efficiency, new windows Energy Star was removed.

So like, you used to get a discount when you went to Lowe's and bought an Energy Star refrigerator, you no longer get that discount.

So the price of those appliances went up as a result of this, this bill, all of that ends by the end of this year.

>> that means you have to have it built, installed, et cetera., or just purchased.

I mean, like, what's the actual.

>> There are nuances to the tax code.

It is intended that you are are built by the end of this year for, for what we do.

>> That's a lot that's got to move quick, doesn't it.

>> Yeah.

I mean, we've, we we are sold out for this year.

Right.

>> As in, if I called you today, you could not get to my property this year.

>> No, we are starting to sell to people that want to go solar.

We are starting to sell post tax credit into 2026.

At this point.

and we had this sort of dip in calls where it felt like there was, you know, maybe some of our other other solar installers locally had some capacity.

It feels like they've all run out of capacity for this year as well.

so that's that's one of the challenges in what in what's going on in the business right now at Greenspark, we are sort of have pumped the brakes and said, okay, we need to figure out what the product is, you know, long term to create a long term sustainable market for residential scale solar storage, electrification.

here in in this area and we're we're looking for solutions.

And from technology perspective from financing, you know, all the different ways that we can get back to saving people money with low cost electricity, clean, low cost, clean electricity.

>> If I can't take advantage of the federal tax credits before the end of this year.

And I want to look at solar for my home next year when those credits are gone, how much more expensive is that project going to be for me?

>> It's going to cost you the same amount of dollars out of pocket.

You will no longer get a tax credit back, so if you pay, you know, taxes next year and you bought a $30,000 solar system, you were going to get a 30% tax credit.

Let's call that.

You know, six, $7,000.

You're no longer getting that back.

So it costs you the same as of right now.

but you're not not getting that back.

Now what we're tending to focus on is that previously we had predicted that electricity rates were rising at a fairly de minimis rate.

And so what we've seen here over the last six months is that the rates are rising much more precipitously.

And so we're trying to figure out what of that.

Can we count on long term?

So I mean, in RGA, we recently had a rate increase, you know, a penny or two a kilowatt hour.

So everybody's power went from 12 to 14 or $0.15 a kilowatt hour.

Will that stay and will that increase be a year on year?

concern.

And so what can we predict with, with folks.

Because if it continues to rise, solar is eminently affordable today.

Right.

The way that we were selling it, you know, before air one but we want to make sure that we can count on that for our customers.

And, and so we're, we're, we're, you know, continuing to look at that and figure out what we can promise them.

>> Are you worried that the, the sunsetting of this federal tax credit is going to hurt your business?

>> we we laid off 20 folks in in June, particularly those focused on selling, marketing our, our consumer products both, you know, small commercial,, products and our products.

because we just it was it became so clear ahead of that bill that those were under the most duress of any of the things that we sold.

>> Is that the first time you've laid off since you've been growing?

>> No, it's it's we had a layoff in I believe it was fall of 2018 as well.

But again, under Trump one we'd been growing and then we we we we yeah, we had some challenges back then.

So we, we shrunk by half then.

This was a much, much more targeted situation.

The reality for us is like, you know, you know, we thought of it as you got to make the boat light and fast to get through stormy seas and and, and so that's, that was kind of our philosophy through this.

>> talking to Kevin Schulte of Greenspark Solar.

So let's start working through some of your feedback on this.

and let me start with an email at Connections at wxxi.org.

Dallas says even ground might play if solar panels were made here and not in China.

And he says, I wonder about the refineries fleeing California.

Are they going to be all solar and nuclear?

So two different points here.

Let's start with this.

He says.

You want to be on even ground with with fossil fuels.

You think that they are unfairly subsidized or they are subsidized.

And now the Trump administration wants subsidies for cleaner energies taken away while continuing to subsidize fossil fuels.

And Dallas says, well, that even ground that you want that might play if solar panels were made here and not in China.

>> I don't disagree.

I will just make a point that United States of America has absolutely horrific and inconsistent trade and industrial policy.

We we each administration that comes through wants to wants to incentivize manufacturers differently.

And our trade policy is is all over the place, as you see, with this recent regime of tariffs, if you were to build the same product.

So I build a product, a community scale solar farm, five megawatts AC, you know, call it 10,000 solar panels in a field.

I install that, right.

Let's just call it $2.

It costs for me to install that for my customers.

If I were building the same thing right now in Europe, it would cost about $0.75.

And that's because of how bad our trade policy and our industrial policy has become.

Even if I adjust it for labor to use American wages.

Right.

Which prevailing wages?

Right.

So I'm paying electricians a significant portion of money.

Even if I adjusted for that, they would be just over a dollar a watt.

The primary driver to that is a solar panel costs about $0.10 to make the United States is currently manufacturing solar panels and selling them at $0.48.

About five times the cost.

And that's because of all of the tariffs and other things on imported silicon.

We don't make enough silicon in the United States.

We don't make enough silicon to make iPhones.

That's why they come from China.

But because it's solar industry and it's a political issue, we are tariffing silicon to come in only when it's being used in a solar panel, not when it's being used in consumer electronics, which we all take advantage.

of.

>> But I think the Trump administration would say that part of the tariffs are designed to make sure we do put pressure to to make more here, to create more here.

And that that eventually that will happen.

>> Yeah.

Well then we shouldn't have gotten rid of all the tax credits to do that in the air.

One.

Right?

I mean, that's the thing is, like the IRA gets signed in 2022.

We say we're going to subsidize American.

We're going to subsidize American manufacturing to become competitive with China in the field of clean energy.

Right.

It was off to the races.

I mean, plants all over the country.

We actually in 2025 was going to be the last year where the United States imported more solar panels than it needed, right?

Next year, which means by next year, the IRA will have worked so well had it stayed in place, would have worked so well.

The United States would be exporting solar modules to other parts of the world.

Right?

But we decided to end that.

But in my opinion, because we weren't making very well informed decisions.

Our Secretary of Energy, you know, is is a fossil fuel lover and renewables hater.

And so they didn't you know, I don't know that they gave it a fair shake.

Right.

But that's that's the reality of where it was headed.

Battery storage made here.

But right.

We don't have enough lithium mining in the United States.

We don't have enough lithium mining for the batteries in our cell phones, let alone to deploy energy storage.

So we're okay with lithium coming in if it's used in an iPhone's battery, but not when it's used in a battery.

That is right going to store power to make our electric grid more, more capable, more futuristic, more feasible for supporting, you know, growth in electricity demand.

So like, that's just bad.

That's just bad public policy.

That's picking winners and losers.

I don't believe we should do that.

So to the to the message of the caller, like I agree.

Like let's let's set level playing fields.

Let's get consistent trade policy.

Let's do those things.

I don't think those are maybe will happen in my lifetime, but those are the things that it would take to get our costs up.

And to get to that sort of level playing field mentioned in the in the caller's message.

>> All right.

Tim in Pittsford on the phone.

Hey, Tim, go ahead.

>> Yeah, I actually had two questions.

One is when the first incentives were put in place has the cost of equipment gone down such that, you know, you can get an equivalent system that maybe the incentives weren't don't need to be as high.

Right.

I'm now I'm a full supporter of of solar panels.

Don't get me wrong with this question.

And then the second question would be, we have a lot of developed hardscape around cities and et cetera.

malls.

What about rooftop solar?

I don't see a lot of that in place.

What are their economics that are preventing us from developing already developed areas with solar panels?

>> Tim, I want to make sure I clarify the first question.

I'm going to let Kevin answer both of them.

I think what you're saying is you're just exploring the possibility that any new technological product, over time, the cost will go down.

Computers, cars, solar, and has that cost sufficiently gone down enough that maybe we didn't need the credits at the same level?

Is that what you're asking?

>> Exactly.

>> okay, Kevin Schulte, go ahead.

>> By percentage.

The the tax credits have been the same, right?

Under Obama's stimulus package, 2009, there was a 30% tax credit put in place for solar panels.

The cost of solar installed in the United States has dropped to 1/12 of the 2009 cost to install solar panels.

And so even though the the percentage is the same, the dollars spent per solar panel has dropped to 1/12 of its previous rate of its previous high, which means that subsidy worked extremely well.

>> The credit is a percentage.

>> A percentage.

>> It's not a raw number.

Correct.

So Tim's question, which is a good one.

>> Very good question.

>> you know, let's say it was a $5,000 credit for anybody who got solar or a $10,000, $15,000 credit over a decade.

That would be a silly thing to do, because you would expect costs to go down.

But that's not how they structured it.

They structure it as a percentage.

>> They structured it as a percentage.

Right.

So the other way to say what has happened is every dollar of tax credit in 2009 gets you 12 times more solar in 2025.

Right.

So that feels pretty good.

>> okay.

And then the second part of his question.

>> The second part of his question is, boy, I couldn't agree more.

we think that we think that the biggest blue sky opportunity in solar is rooftops, reused parking lots things of this nature that are no longer effective for use.

We think that there's a massive opportunity here locally.

where supply chains for major manufacturers and other things have this opportunity to, to continue down their sustainability pursuits, their clean energy pursuits, their low cost of energy pursuits and, and move forward.

We're back in this era now, right where because of the volatility that's been created in the electricity markets by bringing on or bringing back on the most expensive forms of electricity on the market, that clean energy like solar, becomes this hedge against the future volatility of whatever's going to happen to electricity rates.

And so we think business owners and even landlords should be taking advantage of that to deploy solar for the consumers within their their own buildings.

I think it's I think it's the like I said, I think it's the biggest blue sky opportunity there is in our space right now.

>> But we're not taking that opportunity right now.

>> The economics are a little more challenged than putting it on the ground because putting it on the ground in New York State you use a tracker so you can actually the modules now face the sun, right?

All throughout the day.

So but as energy prices continue to rise, it doesn't much matter what one costs over the other.

It matters how much it's going to save you or how much volatility can remove from your business or your institution's costs over time.

>> Let me read from my reporting.

not my report.

My colleagues reporting at WXXI Noelle E. C. Evans reported the following under the headline Rochester Halts Rooftop Solar Projects in the wake of Federal renewable Energy incentive cuts, Noel reports the city of Rochester is halting solar energy projects.

It had sought to pursue this year, amid federal changes to renewable energy tax credits.

The city issued a request for proposal for rooftop solar panels at three sites the Blue Cross Arena, the Riverside Convention Center and the Public Safety Building.

But a city official said that initiative is no longer going forward, in large part due to the decision to repeal renewable energy tax credits in the bill that passed in July.

End quote.

>> So timing sucks.

So we we have been encouraging those solar projects with the city of Rochester for many, many years.

they finally moved forward with them.

And then H.R.

one passes and and what goes on in these in with, within within an industry in these times of of confusion and new policies, is capital markets around an industry kind of freeze?

And we've really experienced that over the last 4 to 5 months, is our customers have just kind of said everything's on pause.

So when we went to reply to that RFP, you know, our customers were like, we're not sure what the cost of capital is going to look like.

So we're not going to give you a proposal right now.

So Greenspark Solar in the business of owning those systems, we work with different capital providers that would own those systems.

We maintain them, things like that.

And so all of them just kind of said, we got to pump the brakes here.

We're not sure we could do this project right now.

And so that's just an unfortunate timing.

I do believe as things shake out, there will be an opportunity to revitalize those projects.

I just, you know, the timing of that RFP and and the nature of public bidding made that a challenge.

>> The phone is ringing.

I've got emails to share.

We're late for a break, so we're going to take our only break of the hour.

We're going to come back and get as many of your questions answered this hour as we can with Kevin Schulte, the CEO of Greenspark Solar.

We're talking about changes when it comes to tax credits available for you as a consumer or homeowner.

and when those changes take effect and we're talking about the state of the market.

Got a question about what is it that who does who are typical customers of Greensburg.

So Kevin will answer that on the other side.

Brian Sharp, my colleague at WXXI has also been reporting on the homeowner interest that has been surging in recent years for solar projects.

So let's go ahead and take that break.

We'll come back.

We'll try to answer as many of your questions as we can.

Coming up in our second hour, A.I.

programs can now take a small prompt, a piece of music that you've written, some lyrics and complete a song in about 10 seconds and the song.

Well, you'll have to decide if it's any good.

I've got some examples for you, but songwriters are increasingly concerned about what this means.

Where do we draw lines?

Do you want music that you listen to written by machines?

We'll talk about it next hour.

>> In a democracy, serious journalism is not a luxury.

It's a necessity.

Accurate, objective reporting gives us the information we all need to form an opinion about the issues and events.

Your monthly membership gift of $5 a month or more will help WXXI provide this essential kind of journalism.

Please become a sustaining member at wxxi.org.

>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

So Mark had emailed to ask who is your typical customer at Greenspark Solar?

>> So the largest portion of our business at Greenspark is installing community scale solar farms around New York State.

we typically build them for private investment and infrastructure groups around the United States that own energy assets.

Most of those projects are owned by these infrastructure groups.

We typically work with you know, half a dozen or so at a time.

Most of the output of those solar projects is going to community solar.

And here in New York state, as of April all of our new projects are going to a program that is called Statewide Solar for all, which is a program where our solar farms will reduce the cost of electricity to only low income homeowners by 15%.

>> Do you do any individual home?

>> Yeah, we also do individual.

So that's the largest portion of our business.

We have a second portion of our business that is doing like local commercial projects.

Manufacturers.

municipal installations, you know, I mean, there's probably a dozen or two of local municipals where we've installed for them schools, churches, businesses, et cetera.

so typically those projects are on the roof.

And then the third portion of our business is residential solar, where we do, you know, a couple of hundred, 150 ish.

residential solar installs a year where we're installing, you know, ten to 30 or 40 solar panels at a, at a home on an annual basis.

>> Brian Sharp at WXXI reported recently that homeowner interest remains high.

It is surging.

is that your experience?

>> Yeah.

I mean, the headlines in Rochester gas and electric territory are, you know, continue to be rate increases, right?

Energy prices are on the rise.

And so that drives consumer interest.

So with our challenges that we saw earlier this year, we really slowed down our outbound marketing.

And we're still getting a significant number of inbound interest in solar.

And we are selling into 2026, even though we weren't, you know, we're selling the same product.

We weren't sure it would continue to sell.

So we're sort of testing the market, but we are continuing to see interest in residential solar.

in spite of a much smaller outbound effort to find those customers.

>> All right.

Greg and Spencerport on the phone next.

Hey, Greg, go ahead.

>> Hey, how's it going?

Good.

So I just wanted to comment on my wife's and mine own solar experience.

We put solar panels on the roof of our house 12, 13 years ago.

We've been very pleased with it.

We smile a little every time news comes out about an energy rate increase.

But I think to encourage other people, a lot of people don't know two things about New York State, where people complain, oh, New York State is too highly regulated.

Well, it turns out that when you put solar panels on your house, your town cannot raise your property taxes because of the increased value.

And the grid is required to buy your excess generation and give you credits for it.

Like during the winter months.

So my brother in Michigan, after I got solar was looking into it and they quoted like $60,000 for him because to capture his excess generation, he would need a very big battery system.

So people in New York should count their blessings when it comes to putting doing residential solar.

>> Greg, thank you for the phone call.

Kevin.

What do you think?

>> I agree with Greg.

Big surprise.

I agree with Greg.

I mean, I think it is interesting like we do we do have this.

Like, there's, like there's something innate.

I'm not a native Western New Yorker, but there's something innate in Western New Yorkers about sort of like and maybe it's everywhere, but I, I'm experiencing in life here.

Like we don't necessarily like the utility or paying the utility bills and all these sort of things.

And so, like, you know, but we believe the state is making that a problem.

And I'm not sure it's true.

I think there's a lot of solutions in this state that if we open our eyes to it, New York is supporting things.

I mean, when I go to a national, I was at the National Renewable Energy Conference last year, 40,000 people last week.

Sorry.

And New York is the apple of many countries or many states in the countries I they believe like, oh, I should go do business in New York.

And it's like and and for us, you know, here in New York, we just it's just kind of the way we live and the way we do business.

But a lot of people think New York has really progressive policies that are very effective.

And they've proven to save ratepayers money, not just the ratepayer that's consuming the solar, but the ratepayers overall are saving money because of solar being added to New York's grid.

>> Greg said that you can't have your property taxes raised based on the improvements that that a solar project at home would be.

Is that correct?

>> Correct.

>> That's probably an important thing for people to understand.

>> Yeah.

>> okay.

Thank you Greg.

>> That's.

>> A good note there.

and but amidst all of this, before I get back to some emails, thank you for the phone call, Greg.

I think the broader conversation on this is hard to have right now, because I don't know if you saw recently what the president said about gas prices.

So and I'm not I'm not trying to pick on any listeners, whoever you support politically or wherever you are.

Right.

I mean, like, we're all different people vote for different people.

But the president of the United States said just a few weeks ago that gas prices were back down below $2 a gallon.

And he was proud of that.

And he said the his administration was to be credited for that.

It said it was a part and parcel to prices dropping everywhere, dropping at the grocery store.

None of it was true.

Well, I take it back what he said about egg prices.

It was correct.

That's the only thing he said in that long slate of remarks about falling prices.

He was correct about eggs.

He was not correct about grocery store staples, beef, milk.

Everything else is up, up, up.

The price of your grocery bill continues to rise, despite the fact that eggs have come off their high and the $2 gas thing, the lowest gas in the country.

And the day he said it was Mississippi at 273, it's not like it was 2042 ten 2012 73 he's claiming that gas in general is below two, $2 a gallon.

It's over three most places.

And by the way, it has gone up this year.

So how do you have a conversation about energy and energy prices and cost to consumers when there is so much PT Barnum?

Don't believe your lying eyes.

Listen to me.

And meanwhile, by the way, wind kills all the birds.

I don't like the sound of it.

Next to my golf course, we're killing all wind projects and we're going to try to kill solar projects.

How do you have an honest conversation with consumers?

>> I think the honest conversation with consumers is kind of along the lines of what I've been saying, which is the policies of this administration are making energy prices go up, and you can see it everywhere, right?

I mean, just with the tariffs alone.

Right?

Oh, we're only going to have 15% tariff on Canada, but it'll be 10% for Canadian energy products.

Well, in our we import roughly 40% of our electric and 40% of our gas from Canada.

So that price went up 10%.

Right.

To the consumer.

Like it's just, you know, I don't I don't think it matters as much what the politician says as it does what we all feel at home.

>> I used to think that was true until the last ten years.

>> Well.

Yeah, I, I don't I truly believe at the end of the day, people know the cost.

I mean, coffee, what did I just read this week in coffee's up 20 plus percent.

people love coffee, right?

Like, I think that that starts to hit home.

And I think we'll start to see what happens in political messaging, you know and how that impacts voting over the next couple of years.

>> I think that's going to be very interesting to see.

>> I, I also believe we've we have allowed American politics to change over the last ten years.

And I don't think in what I would call dispositive ways.

Right.

And I think that's going to be much harder to deal with than any policy decisions that we need to make going forward.

>> I think where this gets the challenge to your thesis here is this I think you're absolutely correct that I mean, Carville said, it's the economy, stupid.

And it is.

I mean, I get it.

people know what they're paying.

People know what their grocery bill is.

People know what their energy bill is.

People know how hard they have it, whether they're working or not.

What they're getting paid, their debt is.

But politics is.

So team sports now that if it's not working, when your guy's in office, you go, well, he had it up.

He was up against it because the last guy, it was so bad.

And, you know, I mean, he's doing his best here.

The problem with this administration is the president explicitly promised, number one, all prices are going down.

The first few weeks.

The first few months when I'm back in office.

And they didn't.

And he's now lying about it.

He's now telling you your gas is below $2 a gallon.

When people know you're filling up there.

I have this image of somebody listening to the president say that while they're filling up at 325 going, like, what?

So I don't know.

I think your thesis may be challenged, though, by the way, our politics has changed.

>> Well, I'm, I'm I'm I'm hoping you're wrong.

I mean, I don't know what to tell you.

I just think, you know, moving forward, ultimately people vote on the economy and the economy is is more based on voting, is more based on how it impacts you than, you know, the S&P 500 or whatever.

And so I hope that that rationality returns to the market at some point.

>> I'm sorry for anybody who's watching on YouTube.

I'm holding my head in my hands.

I just read an email and Dallas is like a regular, and Dallas is actually a very smart guy.

I think a really nice person who I should buy coffee for sometime.

But Dallas, his response to my little rant there was to say I think Biden said he was going to cure cancer.

>> Come on.

What are we doing?

Like, how is that the same as saying that gas is less than $2 a gallon when it's more than $3 a gallon?

>> Well, and I think like there's other things there that are like really important to say, like, you know, Biden increased fossil fuel production more than Trump did.

And like, I don't want to get into performative tit for tat politics, but like, I'm I'm a left leaning person.

That really made me angry that he supported fossil fuels.

>> As much as.

>> He did.

Right.

It sure was.

So I you know, I there's a lot there to talk about.

Like, and by the way, I think every I'm pretty sure every presidential campaign since like Reagan has promised to cure cancer and hasn't.

So I just think it's like silly, like, let's not be silly.

>> But and like I would just say to Dallas, like, that's not the same thing.

His son died of cancer.

He feels very visceral about cancer.

And he was very aspirational about doing it.

But that's the kind of thing you say when you're trying to inspire people to do hard things.

I don't think he was like by November of such and such date, there will be zero types of cancer.

I mean, like, that's not the same as saying your grocery bill is going down and then six months later your grocery bill is gone up and you say, oh no, no, no, it's gone down.

>> Well, and there's a. but it hasn't.

I'm sorry.

But also we cut the mRNA program for curing cancer at the CDC.

So we're not in a place where, like this president's trying to cure cancer.

So it's it's a performative statement that doesn't help the dialog.

>> Yeah.

And I would just say, I'm sure Joe Biden had his lies in office.

He's a politician, but I don't I don't know the cancer thing.

All right.

Amanda and Trumansburg next on the phone.

Hey, Amanda, go ahead.

Hey, Amanda.

Hold on.

Let me let me try that again.

Is that me?

That was me.

Amanda.

Go ahead.

>> okay, I you brought up gasoline prices, and I, as a person who drives a diesel vehicle, I think it's important for the average consumer to think about the price of diesel because the oil companies have the transportation industry by the privates, and that extra cost for diesel is passed on to the consumer for the products that they're buying from the the tractor trailers.

So the last time I checked, the price of diesel was much higher than its historical, rate over gasoline.

It used to be cheaper than gasoline.

>> okay, Kevin, what do you think?

>> Diesel and gas go in inverse proportions.

Diesel in the way it's refined in the United States is kind of a waste product of the gasoline industry.

And so as gas prices go down, diesel always goes up.

And you're you're absolutely correct because gas prices are the political issue.

When we put downward pressure on them, one of the ways we do it is putting upward pressure on diesel prices, which to your point, is a hidden subsidy of the American people to the government because we're now paying more for consumer goods, because the political issue of trying to keep gas prices low is being met.

It's it's kind of a again, again, it's it's sort of it's an implicit subsidy to the fossil fuel industry.

>> Anything to add?

Amanda?

>> No, I just like he says it's a hidden cost.

It's like an extra tax that people don't even realize.

They worry about the gas prices for what they're putting in their car, but they're not thinking about what the the transportation companies are having to pay.

Thank you for taking my call.

>> Yeah.

Thank you, Amanda, and thanks for listening on Finger Lakes Public Radio.

WEOS 89 five FM and WEOS.

Org great to have them as a partnership.

Great to be with you and wherever you are listening or watching the program today.

Got a few minutes left here.

So let me just cover a couple of other points that we have not gotten to yet.

the the reporting on where your headquarters is going.

What's the latest?

Can I ask you that?

>> Sure.

we moved downtown.

our business relocated to 176 East Main Street.

a couple of months ago, in the beginning of May as an interim move, we are intending to open our headquarters long term.

in High Falls.

And we are moving forward with getting building permits and things of that nature.

And, you know, we'll see where the project ends up based on how the market shakes out.

I'm expecting the business to continue to grow through all of this.

although I am a person who wears rose colored sunglasses probably far too often.

And so we'll see.

It's a big project.

It's a big infrastructure project.

It's super meaningful to us to be a downtown Rochester business for a long time.

So we will continue to be headquartered here, and I'm hoping we get that project.

accomplished here over the next couple of years.

>> So you're still optimistic about the long term market for solar in our region, in the state?

>> Well, yes.

And we're expanding.

we're we're going to be doing work.

And we did work in Vermont this year.

We're going to be doing work in, in Illinois and likely Maryland next year.

partly just to sort of de-risk our work here in New York State, but also partly because some of the regulations in New York State are hurting, not helping at the moment.

The the governor has been not as supportive as we would have liked over the last 12 months.

>> What's an example of a regulation that's hurting you?

>> well, the way that the utilities are allowing interconnections, the cost has gone up precipitously.

And in National Grid, if I leave Rochester by 40 or 50 miles, I can build the upgrades myself.

Whereas in RGA they pay for them and are significantly more expensive than my own work.

Just as a, as a, for instance.

And so that's not a uniform and consistent policy across New York State, the way that New York State is looking at battery energy storage.

So if I have five megawatts of solar and five megawatts of storage on the same site, they're looking at that as a ten megawatt project, in spite of the fact that I only have a transformer that can put five megawatts out at a time, which is just like, not.

It's just an evolution that needs to be made by the utilities in order to adjust to new technology.

But the way it's being dealt with at the state is slowing us down.

So things like that where we just need we need open, open territory and can't always just be fighting the fight in Albany.

>> in our last 30s or so, it strikes me that we could get to a weird place in this country where, depending on changing parties in Washington and changing presidential administrations, you know, solar, wind, EVs do well.

And all of a sudden they're hurt.

And and it's this inconsistency of policy.

While fossil fuels do.

Well, what does that do for you and what does that do for consumers.

Are you worried about that back and forth, that lack of consistent policy?

>> We're scrappers in this industry, right?

We've came from next to nothing to, you know 17% of the country's energy profile right in, in a few short years.

And so we'll, we'll.

>> You mean solar in general.

>> Solar in general.

We'll figure it out.

Just just leave the rules of the road the same.

And I'm worried that under, you know, we're going to start winning elections again in 2026, they start changing the rules of the road again.

And that doesn't say great things for the capital markets.

So we just just give me the rules and we will figure it out.

Energy prices go up.

We're still the cheapest and fastest to deploy.

>> Thank you for being here.

Where can people learn more about what you're doing?

>> Kevin Greenspark Solar.

>> Com and Green Spark is an occasional underwriter of this program.

I just want to say that in full transparency, but I call Kevin just because I like to learn about what's going on in solar.

And he's nice enough to say, yes, please come back sometime.

>> We'll do it.

Thanks for having me.

>> Kevin Schulte, CEO of Greenspark Solar.

More Connections coming up in just a moment.

>> Oh.

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