- Support for "Digging Deeper" comes from the Penn State Alumni Association.

Connecting alumni to the university and to each other, the Alumni Association is powered by pride.

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And from viewers like you, thank you.

(light orchestral music) - Hi, I'm Rhea Jha.

Commencement is an important part of university graduation ceremonies, but what is commencement and why is it held?

On this episode of "Digging Deeper," Penn State president Eric Barron talks to Tracy Powell, associate vice president of Strategic Communications at Penn State, Randy Houston, president of the Penn State Alumni Association, and Pia St. Pierre, a student marshal for the fall 2020 Penn State commencement.

- Well, thank you so much for joining me.

You know, it was really interesting to me that when the university went remote in the spring, we went all out to get everybody to the finish line.

Anybody that was out there that didn't have access, we can't afford you not to reach the finish line and graduate.

But one of the things we got the most complaints about was no commencement.

So why is commencement so different than graduating?

Isn't the most important thing, you get your degree?

- I think, I think that that is important.

I'm not sure that that's the most important thing.

I think the finish line when you're in a marathon, which getting your education is, when you're in a marathon the finish line is important, but for me I think it's slightly more important what comes after that, whatever that may be.

- And Pia, what are your thoughts about that?

- So to me, I mean, obviously getting your degree is super important, but having a time to celebrate your accomplishments and look back on what you've learned and what's coming next, that's really what commencement means to me.

So I was able to gather with my family, and we were able to spend that time together.

And I think that's really valuable.

- To have that moment that suggests, that celebrates, or whatever.

So, do you have sort of an understanding of the history of commencement, how long this has been going on?

Maybe Tracy, you've studied commencement.

- Yeah, I did do a little studying up, and I was amazed to know that commencement dates back to medieval times.

So it's about a thousand years old, back to the old English universities.

And it's kind of fascinating to think that some of the traditions of commencement, like the robes, and the caps, and the tassels, have lasted that long over time.

But, they also change too, right?

Formats, and duration and locations.

And this year certainly was the biggest change of all in that we were doing it virtual.

So there's a lot that stays the same, and a lot that changes over time.

- So we even say during the commencement ceremony, that the rituals are ancient, but commencement is always different, always new.

And so I must admit that this latest round was definitely new and different, even if we maintained some of those traditions that were out there.

So give me an idea of, of just from your viewpoint, why hold it as a ceremony?

- I mean, from my viewpoint, I think that the formality and the celebration marking that milestone is really important.

There has to be an official recognition of the accomplishment, and then I'll pass to Randy, because I think that it also is an official welcoming to what I think is the greatest alumni network in the world.

- So, a big part, Randy, you gotta follow that one up.

- Yeah, I, no, I totally agree.

I mean, I think the, you know, Edward Elgar composed the song, "Pomp and Circumstance," which has become sort of a colloquialism for that ceremony.

And I think that part is really, really important, both for the graduate, and should be recognized by everyone at the ceremony, or everyone around.

And as I mentioned earlier in talking with my fellow panelists, it's been, as president of the alumni association, these graduates are becoming Penn State alumni.

And one of my favorite parts of being president has been taking part in that ceremony and seeing tens of thousands of Penn State graduates move on to that next step, and celebrating that with them.

So it's incredibly important overall, but yeah, you see as a graduate yourself when you go through it, but when you watch other people go through it, you see what it means.

I think it means something different to everyone participating, but it's really important to have that.

- So Randy, you have kind of a unique perspective because I don't remember what year you graduated, but you've seen a lot of commencements at Penn State.

- I've seen a lot of commencements at Penn State in a lot of different places, because when I graduated Penn State in 1991, there was no Bryce Jordan Center.

There was a Bryce Jordan, rest in peace, but there was no Bryce Jordan Center.

And so when I graduated in December of '91, we were in Rec Hall, which fortunately is still standing, albeit looking a little bit differently.

And so that experience was no less important because it wasn't in a giant basketball arena, but then coming forward almost 30 years to when I became president of the alumni association and being on that dais for the ceremony in Bryce Jordan Center, the first one for me, I'll admit I was as excited and nervous as I think the graduates were, because that was a big step up for the university.

And this was a big step for them.

- Yeah, so other than venue, and this last year aside, what's changed in that time?

Is the ceremony basically the same, enduring?

- Enduring, I would say, yes.

I think everyone misses that in-person pageantry, again, the ceremony of it all.

It's, whether you attend, we used to hear when I was a student, I used to hear people, you know, the cool kids would talk about, "Oh I'm not gonna march because it's not important."

And, and I think whether you march or not, you obviously graduate, and you move on to whatever your next step is.

But that celebration piece is very very important to, again, far more people than the graduate.

- So, you know, it was interesting.

I skipped my high school commencement, because I thought it was cooler not to go.

I skipped my undergrad because I had a summer field camp, and then I was immediately going to grad school.

And then I skipped my master's and PhD, had a job coming up and off I went.

And so when my kids were graduating, they said, "Well Dad never went to any of his ceremonies.

Why should we?"

And my wife Molly said, "Well, you know, he was on the school board and he had to go to all the high school graduations.

And he was a dean of the College of Earth and Mineral Sciences.

And he had to go to those ceremonies, and grad school, and then he became a president.

And now he's doing like 12 of them a year.

(Tracy laughs) So if you don't wanna attend your own commencement, you could end up doing them by the score."

And so, but as it turns out, I just absolutely love it.

I just absolutely love it.

So Pia, what's your favorite part about a commencement ceremony?

- Honestly, I didn't go to my high school graduation either.

- A ha.

- So, you know, we have that in common (laughs), but it was really interesting to me, actually being a part of the commencement ceremony in the fall for Penn State.

Having that formal end was a lot more meaningful to me than the end of high school, where it just kind of felt like, oh, I'm done, I guess.

So I don't know, that part is really cool.

And of course, like I said earlier, celebrating with family.

That's not something I necessarily did at the end of high school, so.

- Yeah, so it really is important to have this sort of end point.

So how 'bout differences between institutions?

I don't know whether Tracy, you, everybody in this room has had their own commencements, if you happen to go to them.

And Randy's seen at many other universities.

Are they are pretty much the same?

- No, I haven't been to any other university commencements.

I too graduated in Rec Hall.

- A ha.

- Around the same time that Randy did.

I did go, although my parents forced me to, because I do think that a lot of the celebration is about the parents, and that is right and good, I think (laughs), now that I'm a parent.

I think there's a lot of commonalities between the ceremonies.

I think they're grounded in those traditional elements, but having watched what other universities are doing now in COVID times, and what they're planning for the spring, there are a lot of differences in the way they approach it.

You know, at a typical spring Penn State commencement weekend, we have 12 or 13 ceremonies, 12,000 students in three different venues over the weekend.

And President Barron, you know it all too well, because you are there with them.

Some universities have everybody in one space, and everyone stands and everyone sits.

So I think the formats differ, but the ideas stay the same.

- Yeah, you know, it is interesting, at University of Texas, each college had its own, in their own space.

And then everybody gathered for something incredibly informal outside, in front of the tower, which was a joyful, funny.

Others, people just stand up and you award the degree, and at Penn State, everybody gets to cross the stage, have their name called, and more than one person shakes their hand.

How important is that part?

Because I will tell you, at the end of it, I've had a week with maybe 10,000 hands.

(Tracy laughs) And it hurts after a while.

So how important is it that every name is called, you cross the stage, and even in this giant university, it's not something, stand up, sit down?

- Yeah, for me, that's the recognition, that's part of the recognition piece.

I mean, the celebration is important and I think essential, but setting that aside, I think the recognition piece that we provide is really, really important.

The shaking, the crossing the stage and the shaking of hands is something that I've taken part in for Penn State commencement several times as president.

And that for me, is part of what I've missed, you know, during these COVID times.

I think that means a lot to the students.

I may recall having something similar in past commencements of which I've been a part, but it's important to me.

I remember my very first commencement, inducting the graduates into the alumni association, being on that stage, shaking every hand that crossed that stage.

And where I was standing, I was the last person.

It was, I did two that day, I remember.

And it was, I remember after the first one thinking, I'm not gonna make it through the second.

But after the second, I was so glad that I'd gotten to shake every hand, and just thought about how much that meant to each one of those graduates.

So I think that's incredibly important.

I think that's a big part of it.

- You know, it's interesting when we switched to a remote commencement.

We wanted every name to be up there.

- Yep.

- And Tracy, that was very deliberate, wasn't it?

- It was deliberate.

We knew it was important.

The individual recognition is important, and we couldn't do it virtually.

So we were able to devise a way to have what we called a slide, a digital slide, with every single graduate's name.

And it was read by a professional nomenclator, so that you still had the sound and the feel of the individual recognition, but in a safe way.

And I don't know, I think it's gonna be a challenge for awhile, to be honest with you.

I don't know when the day is gonna come that we're going to be able to cross the stage in that way again.

- Mm-hm.

- I have to say, to Tracy's point, that is one thing when we switched to virtual, that I was thinking about all the changes that would occur.

That's not one I considered.

And when you say at the end of the virtual commencement ceremony, Dr. Barron, that they can go to such and such a link to hear their name announced by a professional nomenclator, I thought that was just a fantastic touch.

You know, I'm glad someone thought of it.

I don't know who thought of it, but I think that's a fantastic touch.

- So my favorite part is when I asked the parents and family members to stand, and then I asked all the students to turn to their family members and cheer, because they've had such a part with this too.

And to me, to see all the students on the floor, say, at Bryce Jordan Center or elsewhere, but looking up into the audience for their parents and cheering and waving at them, that to me is the most celebratory moment of the whole thing.

And we can't do that, remotely.

That sometimes the parts of this, that, at least in my mind, are so significant, are a bit of a challenge.

Pia, what was your favorite part of your commencement?

What was the part that you wouldn't want anybody to give up?

If Penn State decides to redo it all, don't give up this part.

- Well, mine was virtual 'cause I graduated in the fall, but I think the most important part was probably having student involvement in the ceremony, just to make it a little bit more personable.

And I was lucky that I was able to be a part of that.

But I think having the student voices there as, like being able to say "thank you" to everyone who has supported us, and not just making it about a student.

Because obviously it is about the student, but you can't do it by yourself.

- So I completely agree with you that the part that I, of the virtual ceremony, I forgot for a minute there that you had the virtual ceremony.

And when you said fall, I was sitting there going, oh, well maybe you, I forgot it was February, maybe you had a chance to do it last year before the pandemic.

But I thought one of the very best parts of the virtual ceremony, is the degree.

Here is sort of a thought.

In a virtual ceremony, you can't just go hours and expect to hold people's attention.

It needs to be peppier and move along.

And the way that the student voices were introduced throughout the whole thing, to me, made it much more engaging, made the time go really, really quickly.

So I wonder if when we return to normal, should we be changing what we do to have more students in the process, and less of the formality, especially since you said that was the part that you seemed to like the best?

Tracy, I don't know what you think about that.

Should we be, did the pandemic just teach us how to do a better commencement?

- I think it has.

I think it's opened up doors for us to rethink the way we do things.

Because I agree.

I think the student voices were one of the most compelling pieces, the student involvement.

And from speakers to performances, I mean, it was pretty robust.

I would love to find a way to make that happen in the future ceremonies down the road.

I also liked your slideshow, President Barron.

I think showing, you know, you had a slideshow of photos and kind of told a story about Penn State.

That wouldn't have been something that would have been in the- - We would have done, yeah.

- (indistinct) before.

- Yeah, thank you for mentioning that one too, because one of the things we do for the pioneers, for the alumni pioneers, after 50 years, is we do a slide show, and I narrate it, and it places them back in, it places 'em back at Penn State as a student.

Because they see the pictures and, you know, I sit there and listen to them say, "Well, did you see so-and-so," or, "I can't believe that," or, "Did you see all those cars," or whatever it was.

It places them back in that context.

And I think our thought was, if you have a virtual commencement, we aren't putting you on campus wandering around, saying to your friends, "Do you remember?

Do you remember when we did this?

Do you remember how we did that?"

And that seems to me also, something very important about commencement is you have an opportunity to be reflective.

So that was the way we decided to place the students back, back on the campus.

So, well, what about your speech?

I mean, surely you remember the commencement speaker at each of your commencements.

Is that true?

- (laughs) I don't.

- Randy?

- I've had three, all of them pretty great in magnitude.

My high school was fantastic, Brooklyn Tech in New York.

Of course my Penn State graduation, and then my law school graduation.

I don't remember the keynote speaker at any of them.

(Tracy laughs) I remember the feeling.

- So, and Pia, yours wasn't that long ago.

Do you remember (laughs) the speaker?

- Not by name, but I do remember appreciating that they took the time to be there and speak to us.

And, like Randy said, the feeling, just, this is it (laughs).

- It is interesting, because they don't seem to strike a chord.

And we constantly tell the speakers, you know, short message, to the point, not too many points.

And the longer you go, the more imperiled you are in terms of audience participation.

Yet somehow it does feel good in there, which is really interesting.

- Well, I think it adds to the note of positivity and motivation in kind of cheering each other on, which is a hallmark of a Penn Stater, right?

- Yeah.

- So you don't, might not have to know the name of the person and remember that, but that's why you remember the feeling.

And for your graduation, for your ceremony, Pia, the speaker was Wanda Bryant Hope.

She's the chief diversity officer of Johnson & Johnson.

And let me tell you, she was so excited to be able to deliver that story.

- Yeah, I remember- - So what you felt was authentic.

- So when are you ready to go back to in-person?

We only have a short moment here, but your ideas, are you ready to go back to in-person?

- Our team is planning, Dr. Barron.

We're looking at all scenarios.

We have to work within health guidelines, but we've got some good ideas.

And as long as we can hold this together and keep the health guidelines where they are, we're hopeful that we can make an in-person happen.

It's gonna look different, but it'll be an in-person.

- And Pia, if you did, everyone in the stadium, socially distant, only two family members, is that better than remote?

- I think it can be for some people, but one aspect of the remote thing that I really liked was that people can listen in wherever they are.

You don't have to travel, so it made it more accessible.

- Well, I really appreciate you being here.

It's a wonderful ceremony.

I did hear one student say, "I was with my family.

Even though it was remote, I was with my family and it was all about me.

And it was special connection with my family, even if I couldn't be on campus."

Well, thank you so much for joining me, and your effort to help me make Penn State's commencements great.

- Thank you.

- Thank you, Dr. Barron.

(light orchestral music) - Support for "Digging Deeper" comes from the Penn State Alumni Association, connecting alumni to the university, and to each other.

The Alumni Association is powered by pride.

Learn more at alumni.psu.edu.

And from viewers like you, thank you.