- Just ahead on Black Issues Forum, tips on shifting focus to a holistic wellness approach for the new year and the death of Stephen tWitch Boss prompts an important conversation about the unspoken pain that black men carry.

We'll talk about it.

Stay with us.

Black Issues Forum is a production of PBS North Carolina with support from the Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation.

[upbeat music] ♪ Welcome to Black Issues Forum.

I'm Kenia Thompson.

With a new year comes new year's resolutions.

Many make promises to join the gym, eat better, start that business, but what happens when that new year sparkle burns out and the zest for lifestyle changes fade away?

Studies show that less than eight percent of those that make a new year's resolution actually stick to them, citing the top three reasons as lack of accountability and support, improper planning, and lack of behavior changes.

To explore this and more, I welcome guest Cornelius Kirk, co-host and co-owner of the online Bro Code show, J. Dwayne Garnett, reflective thinking facilitator and love advocate, and Nathaniel J. Browns, a speaker, coach, and mentor in the Raleigh-Durham area.

Welcome to the show, gentlemen.

I would love for the viewers to learn about what each of you do.

So, J. Dwayne, starting with you, I'd love to hear a little bit about you and how you impact your community.

- Thank you.

I'm J. Dwayne Garnett.

I'm Augusta, Georgia native.

I'm a value based educator, love advocate and founder of Love Is A Parable, a nonprofit here in the Raleigh-Durham area.

- Beautiful.

Cornelius, what about you?

Tell us about what you do.

- Absolutely, thank you.

Born and raised in Kalamazoo, Michigan.

I'm here in Raleigh and work with YM4C, which is a mentoring program where we mentor black and brown young men.

Also, as you've already said, a part of the Bro Code media team where we do interviews and podcasts around things that we believe that we wanna talk about in our community.

And I'm a author this year, first book written this year.

- Congratulations.

Congratulations.

- Thank you.

- Last but not least, Nathaniel, share a little bit about yourself.

- Hello everyone, my name is Nathaniel J.

Brown with This Functional Life and Wellness.

And I simply like to help people get their mindset in order.

Right now this year I'm just positioning myself to speak to young kids and adults about the dangers of childhood predation.

Well, as many of you probably know on this panel and watching the show, according to Human Health and Services office of the minority health department, black adults in the US are more likely than white adults to report persistent symptoms of emotional distress, such as sadness, feeling like everything is an effort, but only one in three black men are reported to get the help that they need.

Reeling from the news of the death of the always smiling dancer, Stephen tWitch Boss in late 2022, many are asking how do we not see these signs that lead to untimely deaths like tWitch's?

He died by suicide at just the tender age of 40.

Cornelius, what are some of the barriers that black men, in particular, experience when dealing with mental health challenges?

- Thank you, that's a great question and there's probably 100 of them, but my top three would start with we don't know ourselves.

A lot of men don't take the time to really get to know themselves.

And with that, it's very hard to go out into the world and be successful because we're listening to everything that everybody tells us who we should be.

Number two would be the social, generational programming or conditioning of what a man's supposed to feel.

So, we've been told that we don't use our emotions.

That's weak.

And so, man up, don't cry, and all those things have become generational curses for us and again, so that means we don't work on our interior world.

So, number three and let me pause on this one.

And I'm gonna say, women.

Men take a lot of their decisions, every day, they make em, whether they know it or not, based on the admiration of a woman.

So, it is not a woman's job to fix a man, but she does play a critical role in what that man would do from an emotional state.

So, I say to women that she can partner with him and let him know how important being emotionally available is.

- I love the transparency and the honesty, but that's a hard one to hear, right?

Because we don't, we don't realize the impact that we have on our men, so thank you for being honest there and sharing that.

Nathaniel, I know that you had your history and bout with levels of mental health challenges.

Depression from things that have stemmed in your past.

Talk to us about the stages that you've experienced through some of those tougher times.

- Yeah, so, I think what happens is the silence is a big issue.

We are told, as black men in the community, you don't talk about the things that traumatize you.

You don't talk about the abuses.

You don't talk about the shame.

It's all supposed to be suppressed and you become this awaiting eruption, this volcanic system that's waiting to just explode and a lot of times, because of that, what Cornelius said, because we don't know who we are truly, we were educated or indoctrinated to know that our origins started with being enslaved.

We don't know that we were free first and because we don't know we were free first, everything that comes towards us, we're incapable of dealing with and we don't have the toolset, the tools and the skillsets to be able to really communicate hey, I'm feeling this, I'm having an emotional expression and I don't know how to talk about it.

So, I'll just resort to silence and then the silence starts to become the festering wound that leads to black men and black boys ending, a way out, they've been suffocated out of belonging.

- Yeah, you know, that brings up a really key point.

When I looked at tWitch, saw him, I loved watching the show, So You Think You Can Dance, and dancing is one of the most euphoric, endorphin releasing activities that you could do, yet he was still suffering silently inside and that's, I think that's the part that impacted me so much.

J. Dwayne, as a mental health professional, what do you see when black men finally do ask for help?

- I think one of the things that we have to really excavate when we start talking about healthcare, healthcare is a nuance within culture and it varies even within.

So we talk about black.

Black is both a race and a culture.

You have some people who are black by race, but don't identify black by culture.

And vice versa.

Now, you make that more complicated when you start to look at what healthcare is.

There is a lack of value in truly understanding what mental health is versus being okay.

Kinda echoing what Cornelius and Nathaniel have already said.

A lot of times, when people look at something being wrong or if there is an issue, something is wrong with them, or they are the issue, so therefore, they become weak because they identify needing help, needing assistance.

As a gender, a lot of times, they look at some type of health.

If I need something, I am a victim.

Therefore, I am a woman which makes me less of a man.

When none of those things are actually true.

So now, we have to shift conversations around how we look at it and have healthier conversations about the value that is put in health so that men can stay around longer and I think that the shifting of the conversation for healthcare professionals will help create a safe space for men to come in and not feel like they're being victimized.

- And that's a larger conversation about healthcare, right?

Healthcare advocacy and what our black community needs from our healthcare providers.

I'd like to talk about the cultural competency around understanding the overwhelm.

Cornelius, I'll go back to you.

When we talk about life wellness, holistic wellness, what does that look like?

- So, for me personally, it looks like, so many times I was living on the outside of my life.

and it wasn't until, Kenya, I could look at myself from the spiritual man, the emotional man, the physical man, my social construct, my occupation, and take all of those as not just my foundation, but pillars in my life.

And so, if any of those spaces are off, as a man I'm not gonna be balanced.

So, I'm almost no good to anybody if for instance I'm not tapping into my spiritual side, which a lot of people are not.

They're just living in the physical.

And so, I tell people especially young kids all the time, listen, we're spiritual beings having a human experience.

And if we don't understand that, we're no good to anyone.

And so, the wellness part is so key to especially to our community.

- Yes.

Yes, from day to day, we encounter life changes.

And without a proper plan to address the emotions that come with those changes, we may find ourselves in an unfortunate tailspin, which is why it's important to make changes that stick and have a plan to follow them.

Today, I'd like to talk about what it really means to make lifestyle changes that incorporate a holistic wellness lens, changes that involve the whole body and the mind.

Cornelius, back to you.

You are a man of mindset shifting, and it can be a feat, but tell us, what are some of the steps to shifting perspective?

- Absolutely.

So, the first thing is to stop, pause, slow down.

And as black men, I think many black men don't do two things.

They don't get a lot of sleep, and they don't breathe.

So, the average human gets about 22,000 breaths per day.

A lot of back men go through their whole life not breathing because they're just in fight or flight.

So, you pause, you breathe, you inhale, and that'll kick in your vagus nerve which stops that fight or flight and then you can ask yourself the tough questions.

Most of the questions would center around, is this true?

And usually it's not true, it's just the story that we've told ourselves or somebody else has told us.

And so, those are some of the steps that I take to shift my perspective.

You can't solve whatever the situation is at the same level.

You kind of gotta get higher.

And that works if we focus on it.

- Yeah, breathing, huh?

We're supposed to breathe.

- Yeah.

- Nathaniel to you, as a life coach, I'm sure many come to you expecting you to have all of the answers, right?

Having gone through some coaching myself, I know that that is far from the truth.

You guys are not answer providers, you're guiders.

So what do those seeking a life coach really need to be aware of before embarking on this journey?

- They need to be aware of the fact that if you're coming to speak to someone, you're coming with the answers.

There is no answer that you don't already have.

The answers are already there.

You're just not asking the right questions.

And the quality of the questions will determine the quality of the answers you have.

And life's struggles come specifically to challenge us to ask deeper questions.

And the deeper the question, the deeper you have to go to be able to discover what's actually there.

We all have things inside of us that we want to come out.

There are deep things in us that need to come to the surface.

That's called resurrection, and those things either come to the surface for two reasons.

Either they need to be resuscitated or they need to be buried, and you've gotta know the difference, but you've gotta ask the proper questions so you'll know how to perform properly.

- Yeah, so what I'm hearing is preparation, right?

We don't go into anything that matters to us without preparation, so.

J. Dwayne, Love Advocacy.

First, I want you to kind of share, what does that mean, really quickly, Love Advocacy, what is that?

- Love Advocacy is actually a program that we have where we help people really discover who they are.

It's an eight-week program where we take people on a journey to revisit their organic self and show them at the core of who they are is love.

And we challenge people to revisit that core each and every day.

- Beautiful.

So, talk to us about how that weaves into lifestyle changes that promote mental health stability.

- One of the things that we do first is we challenge people to be emotional.

I know that's weird because you hear the total opposite, but your emotions are signals.

They are alerting you to something.

Now, the judgment on that is left up to whoever's receiving that, but we challenge people to be emotional so that they can know what they feel.

And to be honest, for a lot of black men, going back to what they say, we have been so conditioned to suppress our emotions that the process to began educating ourselves is to get reacquainted with our emotions and say, okay, what am I feeling?

And start with that.

Be organic.

Say, "I'm feeling something" and that's the first step that we give people each and every time to a lifestyle change.

Allow your emotions to guide you.

- Yeah.

Emotional vulnerability is tough though, right?

Cornelius, I know I follow you on social media and I think every day you've got a post about something that seems to me pretty vulnerable.

Talk to us about even getting to that point to being open to do that.

- Yeah, so it took a lot of work.

It took a lot of time by myself, but I'll say this.

Once you realize that it's not about me, it's bigger than me.

And so, I mean, I know that young men are looking for examples and so once I realized and changed my mindset for just being about me or just being about my family, it's not.

It's about me, my family, and my whole community, I was able to be vulnerable, because I know that's what's needed most in this time and period.

- So, when we talk about life coaching, setting a plan, that first step looks like what?

I'm gonna come to you, Nathaniel.

What does that look like when we talk about we've made the decision to address these issues and we realize that we have some challenges?

Let's say we're Twitch two years ago.

What does that look like when we talk about coupling mental health care with life coaching?

- So I have three questions.

It's a basic thing.

And these three questions are the pillars.

What do I want?

What do I believe?

And what are my choices?

And these are empowering questions because most people, I myself, am dealing with this as a coach, as someone who's a mentor.

I am dealing with this myself.

There are times where the emotional state of things get so big that you don't know you have options.

So, the most empowering question you can ask yourself is, what are my choices?

And it will signal you like, wait a minute.

If you can ask a question, then there's an answer.

And if you can imagine something, then there's a world where those resources exist.

So what I like to do is ask those questions.

And as you're asking those questions, you'll start saying things out of your inner being that start to answer it differently outside of the issue, outside of the oppression that you're feeling.

And it's a cunning way to escape the plantation, if you will.

Isabel Wilkerson, she wrote a book called "The Warmth of Other Suns", and she talked about how the creativity of the slaves was built upon cunningness and how they used that to escape the plantation ideologies or practices.

However, those mindset pillars are still there.

They're still kind of anchored in.

And you don't know you have a choice.

Even though you're off the plantation, you don't know you have a choice.

So now, hey, I can vote.

Options.

So like, seeing the world bigger by asking questions.

What do I want?

What do I believe, truly believe?

And what are my choices?

And then choose life.

- Wow.

J. Dwayne, do you have anything to add to that?

- No, I really do, 'cause I'll only be echoing what it is.

And I think we're all kind of saying the same thing, is that we need to allow ourselves as black men, an invitation to get reacquainted with ourselves.

We haven't had that opportunity to introduce us to ourselves because the expectation of who we should be had took precedence in our lives.

And now it's time to be what we were created to be.

- Yeah.

So, you know, with every trend, wellness is a trend.

And a lot of times we hear this day-to-day chatter of holistic wellness, holistic wellness, but with life challenges and not planning properly, those challenges can be really hard as we've mentioned before.

Cornelius, let's talk about what that, it's not just a trend, right.

It's a daily practice.

And so, what are some things that you implement on a day-to-day to ensure that it's top of mind for you?

- Absolutely.

So, I have a routine and my routine is set and it may be boring, but it's set.

But I typically plan my day the day before.

And I plan out what I want my day to look like and I stick to it.

I set alarms in my phones with reminders of what I wanna get done throughout my day.

And then I surround myself with people who are doing some of the same things and I give them the freedom to hold me accountable.

- And that's plain and simple as that, right.

So J. Dwayne, when we talk about mental health, medical planning for ourselves, how do we go go about finding the right provider to guide us on the journey that we need to, to overcome some of those challenges that we continue to talk about?

- Great question.

It's actually being honest with yourself.

The very first thing is being honest with yourself and asking what is it that I truly need versus what I truly want and go with that.

- And so, you know, I know for myself, I most recently found a therapist and most of you well, those that know me know that my family's from Haiti.

And I really found it important to find a therapist of Haitian culture, Haitian descent that understood my culture because I think that there was a lot that I wanted to unpack but still keep that top of mind.

And so when we talk about finding a provider, again, kind of like Nathaniel said before, there's preparation and work that's supposed to go into it.

Are there resources out there for folks to find the right provider, especially in North Carolina, J. Dwayne, are there any resources that you could point us to to help folks find the right folks?

- Yes.

There are actually several.

If you start one by, if you do have health insurance, go with your provider that you have.

They actually can connect you with several others.

Now then, you start with community, I'm sorry, with government and state.

They also have providers.

And also North Carolina has the 360, NC360CARE which actually helps you target eight elements of healthcare to actually help you in all areas of your life.

So not only are you getting healthcare but you getting other areas as well.

And here's the most important thing, ask a friend.

A lot of times your friends have connections that you don't even realize that are there and go with that.

And speak with your employer if you have one.

One of the most underutilized healthcare benefits is the employee assistance program which is literally where the employer is paying for you to get free services to kind of test it before you actually buy it type thing.

And a lot of people are giving up healthcare on so many different levels 'cause they don't even know that these things exist.

- I know that, I'm pretty sure all three of you, I know two of you for sure work with children, you know.

A lot of this starts at a young age.

And instilling these behaviors and these practices is something that we've got to grow accustomed to, that we've got to pattern and to now make it a behavior change.

So, talk to us about, Cornelius, I wanna start with you first, your work with the youth and how you help them implement some of these changes.

- Yeah.

So first of all, the biggest thing is that I'm an example.

So, I'm doing the thing that I'm asking them to do.

I'm doing it in real time with them.

I'm letting them be themselves.

I think one of the biggest things that happens is, as parents or society, we're telling these young men what to do.

I never do that.

I ask them how they feel?

What they see?

What they wanna feel?

And in just doing that, they feel safe.

I think these young men need safe spaces with men who are living that type of journey too.

- J. Dwayne, talk to us about your work with the youth.

- Oh, one of the things that we have is a junior advocate program and what we show them is that they're loved at the core of who they are.

But also we show them the difference of the expectation type and then also what it is.

I love the example that Cornelius used because I've been fat my whole life.

That doesn't mean I'm unhealthy because I'm fat.

You know what I mean?

But a lot of people assume that like thin is healthy and there are a lot of people that have what they call the thin fat where they are suffering from hypertension and things like that as if they're overweight.

So, we show them that you can be organically you and still live a healthy lifestyle which is truly a lifestyle.

And it starts with accepting you and appreciating you.

- Yes.

Nathaniel, I know you do a lot of work with the youth right, stemming from your childhood trauma.

Talk to us about that work and what you do and how you help them.

- What I've found is that my work has become very organic.

It's me in the grocery store line, having a conversation and listening.

And really it's about listening.

I have found myself mentoring young people just by in passing and they're willing to spill out their expressions and all these things in front of me because I'm that safe place.

I'm that pillar.

I'm six foot four and I walk into a group, you can't miss me.

So they look at me like, oh, there's a safe place.

And kids from high school, I don't even know who these people are and they'll feel comfortable.

So creating that safe space and then being able to ask those questions and get into their lives.

How are you feeling today?

Checking in because it's actually healing for me because I'm giving them a place to belong, I now have a place to belong.

And belonging is necessary in the Black community, especially for Black men and especially for Black youth because that's what makes them act out of character.

It's the fact that they don't have a place where they feel truly planted and rooted and there's no nutrients being supplied to that system.

So when we want true transformation to happen in our youth and true transpiration where they're pulling nutrients from the roots of who they truly are, we've gotta provide a place where they can be planted and unplucked prematurely.

So yes, that's how I engage.

And I engage with youth from older teenagers all the way down to young kids who are willing to... Just say, "Hey, can you just listen to this?"

Or whatever that thing is and that's where I'm positioning myself this year to speak to the younger kids in the elementary school system.

- I love it.

And I think it's important for our audience and viewers to understand that it doesn't matter how many, how big, one is enough, right?

The impact that you have on one is enough.

So don't think that your footprint isn't big enough, right?

So as we kind of get closer to the end of the show, I wanna go back to understanding these folks that have set these resolutions, these commitments for the new year, how do we stick to them?

How do we not look up in March and say, "Oh, I did another gym membership," or, "Oh, I paid for another coaching session that I haven't been to yet."

Cornelius, let's start with you.

How do we stick to it?

How do we make it last?

- Yes, absolutely.

So focus on your outcome, know what that is, but quickly shift into your habits, your process and discipline.

That is the area that will bring out the outcome that you want long term.

- Beautiful, J. Dwayne.

- I always tell people exercise grace with themselves because you may say this is another new year's resolution that has failed, but it could be a new year's resolution with progress.

You may not have had the outcome that you were definitely looking for, but it may be progression from last year.

Last year, you could have talked about joining the gym, this year, you at least joined the gym, so you never know.

Over time, it's there.

So exercise grace.

It took you however long it is to develop the habits, so it's gonna take twice as long for you to break a lot of those habits and it's okay if you have a setback.

But it's really just a setup and it's okay.

- Beautiful, Nathaniel, about 30 seconds.

- So I will end with a quote from one of my favorite movies, "Star Wars."

And Poe Dameron says, "The first order wins by making us think we're alone.

We're not alone.

Good people will fight for us if we'd lead them.

That's how we win."

- And you have the perfect voice to say that [laughs] J. Dwayne Garnett, Cornelius Kirk, Nathaniel J.

Brown.

Thank you so much for being on the show today.

We invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the #BlackIssuesForum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum or listen at any time on Apple iTunes, Spotify or Google Podcasts.

For "Black Issues Forum," I'm Kenia Thompson, I'll see you next time.

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