- Hi, I am Ken Burns for our series of Unum Chats focused on Leonardo da Vinci.

I'm excited to speak with award-winning architect Bjork Ingles.

He founded BIG Big Brk Ingalls Group in 2005, and has received numerous honors, including being named one of time's most influential people and the Wall Street Journal's Innovator of the Year in 2011.

Alongside his architectural practice, Bjork has taught at Harvard, Yale, and Columbia Universities among others, and is a frequent public speaker in venues such as Ted Wired and the World Economic Forum.

Welcome Birk to our Unum Chat.

- Thank you.

- So we'll start by watching a short clip from our film on Leonardo da Vinci.

This clip is from the first episode of the film and a section focused on Leonardo's research into human anatomy and the philosophies of ancient physicians and thinkers.

Let's play the clip.

- Leonardo saw proportion in the natural world as evidence of Nature's matchless gift for design nine, using male models.

He began a meticulous study - On the changing measurements of the human body through the movements of the limbs from different views.

The measurements of the human body vary in each limb according to how much it is spent and from different views so that they grow or diminish to a varying extent on one side while they grow or diminish on the opposite side, - Seeking inspiration.

Leonardo studied a treatise by Vitruvius, a Roman architect of the first century BC who wrote about the symmetry between the human body and a skillfully designed temple, and carefully measured the proportions of what he described as a well shaped man.

- And this was classical belief that the symmetry proportion of the human body reflected as an microcosm de greater harmony of the world, - Just as the human body yields a circular outline.

So to a square figure may be found from it wrote vi.

- The space between the of the lips and the base of the nose is one seventh of the face.

- Leonardo's very, very scientific about it.

The base from the mouth to the bottom of the chin is one.

He does all sorts of measurements and equal from the forehead to the nose of the mouth, to the chin, to the navel, to the genitals of all of his assistants.

So he gets all the proportions exactly right the way Vitruvius had suggested.

- The distance from the top of the nose where the eyebrows begin to the bottom of the chin is two thirds of the face - Pure Monica.

- Leonardo is interested in the human proportion and he thinks that's divine enough to be represented.

He says there is enough poetry and enough cosmos and enough infinite in another human being, or a rock and a waterfall or a half smile.

- So what did you think?

I'd love to start just with your reactions to the scene.

- No, I mean obviously the, the troian man is a, is is is also an icon with within, within architecture and, and the sort of the relationship of the physical environment to, to the, to the human body.

Because like essentially you can say architecture is the, the, the art and science of accommodating the life we wanna live creating the framework for the life we wanna live.

And in that sense, this idea that the, the, the, the manmade physical surroundings somehow having an an, an intimate and direct relationship with, with the, with the human bodies, that that populated.

And I think it's a, it's a beautiful, almost like, almost like an icon or symbol of I think what was u unique about Leonardo's view that somehow that that nature is the ultimate source of, of, of all knowledge.

And that more than anything he was, you know, an, an explorer.

He, he had, he was driven by ex ex extreme curiosity about all things and somehow found different ways to, to, to jot down that, that curiosity in, in, in, in various works of arts, a lot of notes, a lot of scribbles about all kinds of things.

But also, of course, in, in the paintings where he was also may maybe more than anything, trying to understand the world, how light bounces off the human skin, how the translucency of the human skin creates a sense of depth, the, the way that light falls.

And in, in a way his, his works of art are like, almost like scientific studies - That's right - Of, of, of, of ray tracing.

So, so in that sense, he, he really bridges the full spectrum from, from art to science and, and which I think makes him, makes him unique in a and a constant source of inspiration.

- I, I, I couldn't agree more.

And I think that the, even the categorization is meaningless.

The Mona Lisa is a great work of science and his scientific anatomies are great works of art.

And I think that the architectural connection to the Vitruvian man is little understood that, that it has to do with the symmetry between the human body and a well-designed temple.

And so I, I guess I'd throw back to you briefly for is the natural world as inspirational in your work as it was for Leonardo?

And how do you view this balance between the art and science that you just brought up?

- Just, just for fun, I have two sons.

The oldest one is called Darwin, and, and, and the youngest is called Leo Leonardo.

So, so, so, and, and obviously, and they're not, they're not coincidences because I mean, it was, it was mostly like, I like this idea that people, I think two of the most common boys names are Muhammad and Jesus.

So, so people have a tendency to name the children after of the people they admire.

But I think Darwin somehow managed to formulate through meticulous observation essentially the, the, the origin of, of all the, all the wonders of the, of, of the biological world through this kind of process of excess and, and selection and, and, and evolution as, as resulting from, from this kind of selection process of, of excess and selection.

And, and I think with, with, with Leonardo, that you would normally see as, as the opposite spectrum of, of, of Darwin in a sense, but very similarly through this careful and thoughtful observation acquired the means to reproduce, of course, famously in the, in the, in, in the paintings.

Like he, he's his profound understanding of how, how fabric folds, how, how the, the, the human body is, is composed and, and, and anatomically through the different movie members and how it shortens in, in certain dimensions and, and extends in, in, in other dimensions.

So that, and, and I think ultimately architecture is also a field that is positioned between applied, applied science and, and applied art.

I I think actually, like one of the things I love about Leonard Leonardo is he, he, he also talks a lot about the act of doing, it's not just the act of understanding, but it's the act of doing the, it's not just the appreciation, but it's the, it's the, it's the will of of of implementation that that's right.

That sets him apart.

So, so in that sense, it's in his case also applied art and science.

- Yes.

Because the western world as we knew it then in the renaissance was, was descended from Aristotle to Darwin that is observational, but he's also borrowing from the Muslim world, which is more experimentational.

And so he's, he's mixing together.

So we see in his notebooks, you know, designs for cities and, and trying to deal with the problems of the day, like sanitation in how he designs a city or a castle or a church.

You're confronted obviously with the challenges of, of the present moment and trying to overcome through your own contemporary work.

Can you, can you kind of fuse those two together, his, his dilemmas and yours that create the great art that both of you created?

- No, and I, I would say, I mean, of course, like, I don't wanna be as vain as to put myself in the context of di Vinci, but, but I, I would say that we, we, we have sort of a, a way of looking at the world through our practice that that, that you could describe as pragmatic utopian.

And I think because ultimately what, what we have to do as, as architects is that we have to orchestrate all the practicalities of everyday life.

And, and you, you mentioned this idea of like Leonardo being interested in, in, in, in sewage.

She's also interested in how, how to like dissect, you know, a a fish or a chicken.

He's like, he, he's, he's interested in, in, in all these kind of cotedian aspects of everyday life.

And, and in that sense that the devil or God is in the detail that by, by having such a pro profound curiosity that gives you such a detailed understanding, you can take those, all of those scattered observations and understanding and put them together into a holistic work art.

And I think similarly in, in architecture, of course we, you know, we, we we are doing opera houses and, and, and, and airports and, and, and museums.

But we, we are also involved in, you know, we, we, we created a, a waste to energy, power plant in, in Copenhagen that's so clean that we could turn the roof into a, a manmade ski slope and the facade into the, the tallest climbing wall in the world.

So just to say that by taking these everyday things, these practical, pragmatic aspects of everyday life, understanding them to such a, a, a depth and, and putting them back together in a holistic way that makes them, part of that becomes an extension of, of, of, of, of, of human life.

Like in, in many ways, you can say one of the main landmarks of Copenhagen, my, my original hometown today is a waste to energy, power plant that turns the garbage of the city into district heating and electricity, but that is also a park and a destination where the copenhageners can hike and, and ski and, and climb.

So, so it's almost like taking the, the lowest and the highest - Yes.

- The most every day and, and, and the most aspirational and, and bringing it together.

And, and I think that's exactly what, what, what Leonardo was a master of.

- That's right.

You're exactly right.

He was always interested in the microcosm and the macrocosm and the ordinary.

You know, the romantic poet William Blake said, you could find the world in a grain of sand.

And the architecture of the Adam has a profoundly similar design to the architecture of the solar system.

So Leonardo's way ahead of his times in so many ways.

I want you to just speculate on what he'd think of our world today.

What architectural advancements or buildings and design do you think would blow his mind besides your Copenhagen Magnificent is sort of thing.

- Yeah, I mean, I I think since, since he was, you know, he he was really a technologist.

- Yes.

- And, and, and I think it's important to remind ourselves that the word technology comes from the ancient Greek word technique, which means art, - Right?

- So in that sense, again, this perceived dichotomy between art and technology is, is really a construct we've come up with later because, and, and that that's maybe an an another thing that's at the root of our practice that I see in, in, in a lot of like Leonardo's worldview is, is the idea of the oxymoron.

The oxymoron being a, a, a concept that unites seemingly contradictory elements into, in, into, into new ways forward.

I would say one of the things that, that I think he would be, he would be very interested in is in, in the field of architecture is like the auto automation and, and, and 3D printing, like we we're doing a handful of projects with a, with a company called IC Icon.

We're working for NASA to design the, the laser printers that can use solar power on the moon to center moon dust into a kind of manmade obsidian, a kind of glass like rock.

And, and, and essentially what the promise that it holds is that if not at the molecular level, then it's sort of at the molar level that can actually create original works of, of art or architecture by solidifying in this case moon dust using solar power and, and, and lasers.

And, and I think that that kind of frontier where, where technology opens new avenues, I think would be of, of, of great interest.

I think one of the beauties of one of the pro promises of additive manufacturing three printing is this idea that today, you know, architecture is, is very much an art, an art form bound by, by parameters such as gravity, of course, building code, but also very much budgetary constraints.

And the 3D printer doesn't care about how complex a design is.

It only cares how much medium are you using and how long does it take to print it.

So in that sense, the, the, the, the, the wonders of the's, let's say ornamentation or art, full design, beautiful, sculptural curvature, whatever comes at no cost.

And, and I think this is something that, that, that, that Leonardo would, would, would've, would've appreciated.

- Wow.

That's so great.

You know, someone asked me the other day what I'd say to Leonardo, and among the first things are we've been to the moon, but I now have to amend that and say, we have 3D printing.

Bjork.

I think you have added, we've had many such conversations.

I I don't think anyone has with the same economy sort of reinvigorated the wonder and awe that Leonardo still creates in all of us, but also sees the way in which his legacy of observation, of, of inventiveness, of the unification of all disciplines so perfectly, as you've done in the few minutes we've had together, we're so grateful.

Bjork Ingles for your extraordinary comments and joining us for this Unum chat today on the great Leonardo da Vinci.

Thank you so much.

- Thank you.

Thank you.