>> Announcer: MAJOR FUNDING FOR "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE" WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY NEW JERSEY REALTORS, THE VOICE FOR REAL ESTATE IN NEW JERSEY.

MORE INFORMATION IS ONLINE AT NJREALTOR.COM.

RWJBARNABAS HEALTH.

LET'S BE HEALTHY TOGETHER.

NJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

ROWEN UNIVERSITY, EDUCATING NEW JERSEY LEADERS, PARTNERING WITH NEW JERSEY BUSINESSES, TRANSFORMING NEW JERSEY'S FUTURE.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY "NEW JERSEY BUSINESS MAGAZINE," THE MAGAZINE OF THE NEW JERSEY BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION, REPORTING TO EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE LEADERS IN ALL 21 COUNTIES OF THE GARDEN STATE SINCE 1954.

AND BY POLITICO'S "NEW JERSEY PLAYBOOK," A TOPICAL NEWSLETTER ON GARDEN STATE POLITICS, ONLINE AT POLITICO.COM >>> NEW JERSEY SCHOOLS ARE COLLECTIVELY AMONG THE BEST IN THE COUNTRY, BUT THEY ARE ALSO AMONG THE MOST SEGREGATED.

A COALITION OF GROUPS AND STUDENTS HAVE FORMED TO CHALLENGE THAT STATUS IN COURT.

HI, EVERYBODY, THIS IS "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE."

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

AS WE LOOK AT THIS CASE AND THE REST OF THE WEEK'S NEWS, WE'LL HEAR FROM A TALENTED GROUP OF REPORTERS FROM AROUND THE STATE, INCLUDING STACIE SHERMAN.

SHE IS THE DEPUTY MANAGING EDITOR FOR U.S. BUREAUS AT BLOOMBERG.

SOPHIE NIETO MUNOZ IS A REPORTER FOR THE MONITORER AND DUSTIN IS THE STATE HOUSE REPORTER FOR THE RECORD, "USA TODAY" NETWORK.

WE START TODAY WITH ONE OF THE ATTORNEYS WHO BUILT THIS CASE.

SHE IS THE DIRECTOR AND FOUNDER OF THE INCLUSION PROJECT AT RUTGERS UNIVERSITY AND A PROFESSOR AT RUTGERS LAW SCHOOL.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN, ELISE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO THERE WAS A COURT HEARING THIS WEEK AFTER A LONG DELAY.

WHAT WAS THIS HEARING OR WAS THAT THE WHOLE CASE?

>> WELL, THE PURPOSE OF THE HEARING WAS FOR THE JUDGE TO HEAR FROM BOTH PLAINTIFFS AND THE DEFENDANTS, THE PEOPLE WHO BROUGHT THE CASE AND THE STATE ABOUT WHETHER -- ABOUT HOW THE CASE SHOULD BE RESOLVED.

THE STATE IS SAYING THAT THE CASE SHOULD BE DISMISSED.

THE PLAINTIFFS, OF COURSE, ARE SAYING THAT THE CASE SHOULD CONTINUE.

PLAINTIFFS ARE ALSO ARGUING THAT THE FACTS ARE VERY CLEAR.

THE LAW IS VERY CLEAR.

THE COURT SHOULD FIND THAT THE STATE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR FIXING THIS PROBLEM.

AND THEN WE CAN MOVE ON TO THE REMEDY STAGE.

AND THE STATE IS EITHER LOOKING TO DISMISS IT OR IT'S MAKING THIS ARGUMENT THAT TO ME SEEMS UNTENABLE, WHICH IS THAT FIRST, THE PLAINTIFF SHOULD HAVE TO SHOW THAT THE HARM CAN BE REPAIRED BEFORE THE COURT CAN FIND THAT THE STATE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR FIXING IT.

>> THERE ARE A LOT OF ODD ARGUMENTS MADE, BUT IS WHAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK THE TOTAL SUM OF THE CASE?

DOES IT NOW GO TO A JUDGE FOR A RULING AND THEN HOW DOES THAT WORK?

>> THE JUDGE HEARD ARGUMENT IN THE CASE AND NOW THE JUDGE HAS TO DECIDE HOW HE'S GOING TO ROOM RULE.

HE HAS SAID THAT HIS OPINION WILL ISSUE IN DUE COURSE, NOT REALLY CLEAR WHAT THAT MEANS AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, BUT I ASSUME THAT HE WILL WRITE A VERY CAREFUL AND REASONED OPINION.

IT MAY TAKE SOME TIME, BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHERE WE'LL FALL ON THE CALENDAR, BUT I GUESS, YOU KNOW, WE COULD SAY MAYBE ONE MONTH OR SO IF I HAD TO -- IF I HAD TO GUESS, I WOULD SAY IT WAS PROBABLY ONE MONTH, MAYBE TWO MONTHS.

>> YEAH.

>> BUT YEAH.

>> SO, AS FOR WHAT HAPPENS, THE STATE SAID THE PLAINTIFFS FAILED TO DEFINE SEGREGATION, LET ALONE PROVE IT.

>> THE -- THE STATE'S ARGUMENTS, I -- IT'S REALLY -- HOW TO SAY THIS?

IT'S HARD EVEN TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE STATE IS SAYING.

THE FACTS ARE SO CLEAR.

THEY ARE DAMNINGLY CLEAR.

WE HAVE SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND BLACK AND LATINO STUDENTS, AS WELL AS WHITE STUDENTS, BY THE WAY, WHO ARE IN INTENSELY SEGREGATED SCHOOLS.

WE'RE RELYING ON THE STATE'S OWN DATA.

THIS IS NOT DATA THAT CAME FROM THE PLAINTIFFS.

I SHOULD SAY I'M NOT ON THE LEGAL TEAM SO WHEN I SAY, WE, I'M JUST REALLY REFERRING TO LEGAL TEAM.

BUT YOU KNOW, THE FACTS ARE VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD AND VERY CLEAR.

WHAT THE STATE HAS SAID IS, WELL, WHEN THEY INTERVIEWED THE INDIVIDUAL PLAINTIFFS WHO BROUGHT THE CASE, THESE ARE, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE SOCIAL JUSTICE LEADERS AND PARENTS AND THEY SAID, WELL, THEY DIDN'T HAVE A CLEAR DEFINITION OF SEGREGATION.

WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S JUST NONSENSE, AND IT'S INTENDED TO BE AS DISTRACTION.

IT'S QUITE APPARENT THAT OUR CHILDREN ARE VERY ISOLATED FROM EACH OTHER ACROSS THE STATE.

>> AND YOU ALLUDED TO THIS A LITTLE BIT, BUT I THINK IT'S WORTH REPEATING, THAT THIS IS NOT ABOUT EXCLUSIVELY BLACK AND BROWN KIDS AND THEIR SEGREGATED SCHOOLS.

IT'S ABOUT WHITE KIDS AND THEIR SEGREGATED SCHOOLS AS WELL.

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

YOU KNOW, TRADITIONALLY, THE LAW HAS BEEN FOCUSED ON BLACK AND LATINO CHILDREN, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE DATA, WHITE STUDENTS ARE ALSO SEGREGATED, AND WE HAVE TO BE VERY CLEAR THAT SEGREGATION HARMS ANYONE.

THIS IS NOT JUST A BLACK AND BROWN PROBLEM.

WHEN YOU DIVIDE PEOPLE AND PUT THEM IN DIFFERENT SCHOOLS, THEY LOSE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN FROM ONE ANOTHER, TO LEARN ALONGSIDE ONE ANOTHER.

THE RESEARCH SHOWS THAT THIS HAS A LASTING IMPACT BECAUSE THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU -- WHEN YOU DON'T LEARN WITH OR HAVE A CHANCE TO GET TO KNOW PEOPLE WHO ARE DIFFERENT, YOU COME TO FEAR DIFFERENCE, AND WE HAVE SEEN THAT TIME AND TIME AGAIN, AND THE RESEARCH HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR ON THIS POINT.

>> IT ALSO HELPS KIDS TO LEARN ABOUT ONE ANOTHER AS WELL, YOU KNOW?

I THINK MAYBE THIS DOESN'T NEED SAYING, BUT I'LL SAY IT ANYWAY.

WHY KIDS BENEFIT FROM BEING AROUND BLACK AND BROWN KIDS TOO, AND I DON'T THINK THAT THAT PART OF THAT ARGUMENT GETS STATED ENOUGH WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT DESEGREGATING SCHOOLS.

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

AND WE'VE SEEN, AGAIN, FROM PLACES WHERE THIS HAS BEEN DONE, THERE ARE EXAMPLES OF THIS, DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, AND WHITE STUDENTS VALUE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN ALONGSIDE BLACK AND BROWN CHILDREN, FOR SURE.

I'VE HEARD THAT FROM WHITE STUDENTS WHO HAVE BEEN IN INTEGRATED ENVIRONMENTS, AND THEY THINK IT'S WEIRD, ACTUALLY, WHEN THEY GO TO COLLEGE AND THEN THEY -- AND THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY LEARN FROM OTHER FELLOW STUDENTS WHO HAVE ATTENDED ISOLATED SCHOOLS AS WELL.

THEY JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THAT CAN POSSIBLY HAPPEN.

PEOPLE, WHEN YOU GET INTO AN INTEGRATED ENVIRONMENT THAT IS EQUITABLE AND FAIR, STUDENTS THRIVE.

AND ALL STUDENTS THRIVE.

AND IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT.

>> I WANT TO GET YOU ON THE RECORD ON THIS AGAIN.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS FOR HOW THE GOVERNOR HAS PARTICIPATED IN THIS SITUATION.

SOME OF THE ARGUMENTS THAT YOU HEARD, DO YOU EVER WONDER IF THEY -- IF THOSE WEIRD ARGUMENTS LIKE, ALMOST AN ENDORSEMENT OF SEPARATE BUT EQUAL THAT I HEARD THERE, DO YOU THINK THAT IF THE GOVERNOR HEARD THAT, THAT HE WOULD FEEL THAT REPRESENTS HIS POINT OF VIEW?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S REALLY HARD FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE GOVERNOR IS DOING HERE, WHAT HIS ADMINISTRATION IS DOING.

THE GOVERNOR HAS ACKNOWLEDGED THAT SEGREGATION EXISTS.

IF YOU READ THE STATE'S BRIEF IN RESPONSE TO THE PLAINTIFF'S ARGUMENTS, THEY'RE ESSENTIALLY SAYING -- THEY'RE ESSENTIALLY MAKING THE ARGUMENT THAT, WELL, THE SCHOOLS ARE SEPARATE BUT THEY'RE EQUAL.

WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THEY'RE NOT EQUAL.

WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE -- THAT THERE CONTINUE TO BE FUNDING ISSUES.

WITH THE WAY THAT THE STATE FUNDS THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND FUNDS BLACK AND BROWN SCHOOLS IN PARTICULAR.

BUT ALSO, WE KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, SEPARATE BUT EQUAL IS INHERENTLY UNEQUAL, AND IT JUST DOESN'T WORK.

AND THE STATE HAS TOLERATED THIS PROBLEM FOR GENERATIONS.

THE STATE HAS KNOWN ABOUT THIS, AND IT'S REFUSED TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, AND AS I SAID IN THE OPENING, THE STATE IS MAKING THIS CRAZY ARGUMENT THAT THE COURT SHOULDN'T FIND THAT WE'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR FIXING THE PROBLEM UNTIL THE PLAINTIFFS SHOW THAT IT CAN BE FIXED.

AND THAT JUST CAN'T BE THE WAY THAT THE LAW WORKS.

>> NAME THE MOST EASILY ATTAINABLE REMEDY THAT COULD COME OUT OF THIS.

REALLY, I HAVE 20 SECONDS, LITERALLY.

>> THERE ARE INTERDISTRICT CHOICE PROGRAMS.

THERE ARE MAGNET PROGRAMS THAT COULD BE DEVELOPED ON A REGIONAL SCALE WHERE STUDENTS FROM ALL OVER THE REGION WOULD BE ALLOWED TO ATTEND.

YOU CAN REDRAW DISTRICT LINES.

THERE ARE LOTS OF DIFFERENT WAYS TO DO THIS, AND BY THE WAY, THERE ARE EXPERTS IN THE COUNTRY WHO KNOW HOW TO DO THIS AND WHO STAND READY TO HELP.

>> ELISE BODDIE, ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO TALK WITH YOU.

I'M SURE WE'LL TALK AGAIN.

THANKS FOR COMING ON.

>> THANK YOU.

>> LET'S TURN TO OUR PANEL NOW, STACIE, SOPHIE, DUSTIN.

GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL.

SOPHIE, THAT'S A BIG CASE THAT HAS FLOWN UNDER THE RADAR BECAUSE IT'S DRAGGED ON FOR SO LONG, BUT IT COULD RESULT IN A HISTORIC RESTRUCTURING OF THE STATE'S PUBLIC SCHOOLS, NO?

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, LIKE SHE SAID, IT COULD BE A MATTER OF WEEKS OR MONTHS BEFORE A DECISION IS MADE, BUT IT'S GOING TO FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE THE WAY THAT NEW JERSEY STUDENTS GO TO SCHOOL AND WHERE THEY CAN GO TO SCHOOL, AND WE'RE GOING TO SEE THE FUNDING STRUCTURE CHANGE.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE REMEDY IS GOING TO BE.

SHE -- ELISE HAD JUST BROUGHT UP MAGNET SCHOOLS AS A GOOD IDEA.

THE LAWSUIT CITES THAT AS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT WAS DONE IN HARTFORD, CONNECTICUT, WITH A SIMILAR LAWSUIT IN THE '90s.

SO, IT'S DRAGGED ON FOR A REALLY LONG TIME.

IT'S GOING TO DRAG ON A LITTLE MORE.

AND THE REMEDY IS, WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS, BUT IT'S DEFINITELY GOING TO CHANGE THE WAY THAT EVERY STUDENT IN NEW JERSEY ATTENDS SCHOOL BASICALLY.

>> YEAH, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT AT LEAST THE MURPHY ADMINISTRATION IS GOING TO HAVE TO AT LEAST BEGIN TO IMPLEMENT IF THERE ARE ANY REMEDIES CALLED FOR.

STACIE, COULD YOU SEE SOME SUBURBAN DISTRICTS SAYING, I'M NOT SENDING MY KIDS TO XYZ BIG CITY SCHOOL?

I PAY MY TAXES HERE IN ABC SUBURB.

CHANGES THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE IMPLEMENTED WOULD TRIGGER SOME SERIOUS REACTIONS AND PUSHBACK, WOULDN'T YOU THINK?

>> I DEFINITELY THINK SO.

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT CAN BE FIXED EASILY, AND YOU'RE GOING TO GET A LOT OF PUSHBACK FROM SUBURBAN DISTRICTS THAT LIKE THEIR SCHOOLS THE WAY THEY ARE.

SO, IT SHOULD BE INTERESTING, AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE A WHILE.

>> LET'S TURN NOW TO WHAT FOR THE FIRST TIME IN YEARS IS NOT THE TOP STORY OF EVERY NEWSCAST.

COVID.

THE ENDEMIC IS NEAR, SAY MOST EXPERTS.

PHIL MURPHY, FOLLOWING THE DATA ALWAYS, DETERMINED THAT THIS FRIDAY WAS THE BEST FRIDAY FOR HIS FINAL COVID BRIEFINGS.

DUSTIN, YOU HAVE HAD THE GREAT FORTUNE TO SIT IN ON A LOT OF THOSE.

YOU GOING TO MISS IT?

>> I'M SURE AT SOME POINT, I'LL MISS HAVING THAT ACCESS, BUT IT HAS BEEN TWO YEARS OF, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES THREE DAYS A WEEK, SOMETIMES TWO.

LATELY, IT'S BEEN ONE DAY A WEEK.

TWO YEARS OF LISTENING TO THE SAME SORT OF RUNDOWN, THE GOVERNOR SAYING, THE WOMAN WHO NEEDS NO INTRODUCTION.

SO, IT'S BEEN A LONG TWO YEARS IN SO MANY WAYS, BUT AS FAR AS THOSE PRESS BRIEFINGS GO, I THINK I SPEAK FOR MANY REPORTERS WHEN I SAY THAT WE'RE HAPPY TO MOVE ON TO MAYBE A DIFFERENT TYPE OF ACCESSIBILITY TO THE GOVERNOR.

>> RIGHT.

MAYBE JUST A WEEKLY PRESS CONFERENCE.

DID YOU GO TO ALL OF THESE OR JUST MOST?

>> I WASN'T KEEPING TRACK, BUT I'VE BEEN TO, I WOULD SAY, MOST OF THEM, AND YOU KNOW, I RECALL VIVIDLY THE FIRST ONES AROUND THIS TIME TWO YEARS AGO WHEN WE ALL CRAMMED INTO THE STATE POLICE OPERATIONS CENTER IN WEST TRENTON AND THEY WERE ANNOUNCING, OH, WE HAVE ONE CASE, WE HAVE TWO CASES, FOUR SITTING IN THERE, HUDDLED UP NEXT TO EACH OTHER, NO MASKS, AND THE MESSAGE BACK THEN WAS, BE SURE TO WASH YOUR HANDS AND COVER YOUR MOUTH.

AND IT'S KIND OF CRAZY TO THINK BACK HOW NAIVE WE ALL WERE.

WE, BEING PEOPLE LIKE ME, AND HOW FAR WE'VE COME SINCE THEN AND WHAT WE'VE LEARNED.

>> STACIE, THE GOVERNOR'S BRIEFINGS WERE SOME OF OUR MOST WATCHED LIVE STREAMS FOR NJ PBS.

I REMEMBER HE USED TO HAVE ON SPECIAL GUESTS, ALMOST LIKE A TALK SHOW.

HE WAS ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE ATTENTION, NO, STACIE?

>> I THINK IN MANY WAYS, HE WAS.

HE BECAME A NATIONAL FIGURE BECAUSE OF THESE PRESS BRIEFINGS.

NEW YORK AND NEW JERSEY WERE THE EARLIEST AND PBS HARDEST HIT AND SO GOVERNOR MURPHY AND NEW YORK GOVERNOR THEN CUOMO REALLY USED IT TO THEIR ADVANTAGE.

THEY JUST USED THE OPPORTUNITY OF APPEARING ON NATIONAL TV AND BEING THE VOICE OF REASON AND LEADERSHIP THAT PEOPLE WERE SEEKING.

SO YEAH, I THINK IT DID HELP HIM IN THAT WAY.

>> SOPHIE, YOU LOST THE COIN TOSS THAT WE CONDUCTED BEFORE THE SHOW WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE, SO YOU GET THE MURPHY FOR PRESIDENT QUESTION.

CAN MURPHY PARLAY HIS PERCEIVED SUCCESS OF HANDLING THE COVID CRISIS INTO NATIONAL RECOGNITION AND PERHAPS A WHITE HOUSE RUN?

>> I MEAN, IT WOULDN'T BE THE FIRST TIME WE SEE A NEW JERSEY POLITICIAN MAKE A RUN FOR THE WHITE HOUSE.

SO I THINK THERE IS DEFINITELY POTENTIAL THAT THESE VIRAL MOMENTS THAT HAVE PICKED UP AND THIS NATIONAL STAGE THAT MURPHY HAS GOTTEN TO BE ON, HE COULD USE TO HIS ADVANTAGE.

BUT LIKE I SAID, WE'VE SEEN CORY BOOKER RUN.

WE'VE SEEN CHRIS CHRISTIE RUN.

DO WE WANT TO SEE ANOTHER NEW JERSEY POLITICIAN RUN?

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S WHAT NEW JERSEYANS WANT, AND I THINK WE'VE SEEN THAT IN THE PAST.

>> ALL RIGHT, LET'S SEE HOW THE GUY HANDLES THE NEXT TWO YEARS ANYWAY.

STARTING WITH THIS BUDGET, WHICH HE PRESENTS NEXT TUESDAY.

WHY, YES, WE WILL HAVE LIVE COVERAGE, THANKS FOR ASKING.

MORE ABOUT THAT LATER.

WHAT'S GOING TO BE THE HEADLINE COMING OUT OF THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET SPEECH NEXT WEEK?

>> TAKING A GUESS BASED OFF OF THE RECENT ANNOUNCEMENT THAT HE IS ROLLING OUT THIS PROPERTY TAX RELIEF PROGRAM, I'M GUESSING THAT IT'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF, WOW, WE HAVE A LOT OF MONEY.

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH IT?

WHICH, TRADITIONALLY, HASN'T BEEN THE CASE.

COUPLED WITH THAT, I'M SURE MURPHY'S GOING TO TAKE SOMEWHAT OF A VICTORY LAP AND SAY THAT HIS POLICIES ARE REALLY WORKING.

HE GAVE A LITTLE BIT OF PREVIEW OF THAT THIS WEEK WHEN HE UNVEILED THAT PROPERTY TAX PROGRAM, SO I EXPECT IT TO HEAR THAT THINGS ARE IN REALLY GOOD SHAPE AND I'M DOING A REALLY GOOD JOB.

>> STACIE, FLUSH WITH CASH, THE STATE IS.

SAYS EVERYBODY.

WHAT SHOULD THAT MEAN?

EVERYBODY'S GOING TO GET THEIR GROUPS AND CAUSES FUNDED AND THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY IS GOING TO GET ALL KIND OF TAX BREAKS?

>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.

I KNOW WE HAVE MONEY FOR TWO MAIN REASONS.

ONE IS BECAUSE OF THE RECOVERY.

I MEAN, PEOPLE ARE -- WERE HOME AND THEY'RE EAGER TO GET OUT AND SPEND MONEY, AND SO OUR REVENUE IS MORE THAN EXPECTED.

AND THEN WE HAVE FEDERAL STIMULUS THAT IS NOT GOING TO BE HERE FOREVER.

BUT PEOPLE SHOULD EXPECT THAT THE GOVERNOR IS GOING TO SPEND MONEY.

HE'S GOING TO RESPOND TO THE ELECTION RESULTS, WHICH, IN NOVEMBER, WERE A BIT CLOSER THAN HE WOULD HAVE LIKED TO SEE, AND HE SAID THAT HE GOT A MESSAGE FROM THAT, THAT PEOPLE REALLY NEED TAX RELIEF, AND SO I THINK HE'S JUST STARTING ALREADY RESPONDING TO THAT BY HANDING OUT TAX REBATES.

>> I WANT TO CIRCLE BACK TO COVID FOR A COUPLE OF MINUTES AND MAYBE GET EACH OF YOU TO REFLECT ON HOW IT STARTED AND HOW IT'S GOING IN DEALING WITH COVID IN ANY ASPECT OF YOUR LIFE, PROFESSIONAL, OR OTHERWISE.

SOPHIE, LET'S START WITH YOU.

THE LAST TWO YEARS.

>> THE LAST TWO YEARS HAVE BEEN DEFINITELY INTERESTING.

I MEAN, I STARTED IN THE STATE HOUSE IN NOVEMBER OF 2019, SO I WAS -- ONLY GOT A GOOD SIX MONTHS BEFORE I WAS SENT TO MY APARTMENT IN JERSEY CITY FOR TWO YEARS, BASICALLY, SO IT'S BEEN REALLY INTERESTING.

I'VE BEEN THROUGH, LIKE, FOUR BUDGETS, IT FEELS LIKE, SO I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S JUST BEEN A WHIRLWIND OF TWO YEARS, BUT WHEN I REFLECT BACK ON IT, I THINK THE BIGGEST STORY HAS REALLY BEEN UNEMPLOYMENT AND SEEING HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE SUFFERED AND CONTINUE TO SUFFER.

I THINK THAT'S JUST A CONTINUING THEME OF THE PANDEMIC, AND YOU KNOW, EVEN TWO YEARS DOWN, NOW THIS IS AN ENDEMIC, WE'RE STILL SEEING HOW PEOPLE ARE HURTING AND REALLY WHAT THE RECOVERY IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE.

>> AND ALSO TO HOW THE SYSTEMS, THE SAFETY NET AS IT WERE, WAS SHREDDED, PARTICULARLY DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, MOTOR VEHICLES, ALL OF THOSE.

I MEAN, IT EXPOSED FISSURES IN ALL OF THOSE AREAS, RIGHT?

>> OH, YEAH, DEFINITELY.

I MEAN, I REMEMBER ♪♪ MAYBE APRIL 2020, GOVERNOR MURPHY WAS ASKING FOR PEOPLE WHO KNEW KOBAL, WHICH IS A LANGUAGE FROM THE '60s TO HELP FIX THE UNEMPLOYMENT SYSTEM, AND I MEAN, WHEN YOU THINK BACK TO THAT, IT'S JUST CRAZY THAT THAT EVEN -- THAT WE EVEN NEEDED HELP WITH THAT.

THAT THAT WASN'T DEALT WITH, YOU KNOW, 10, 15, 20 YEARS AGO.

BUT THEN AGAIN, EVEN YESTERDAY, THERE'S STILL ALL THESE PROBLEMS BECAUSE YESTERDAY'S HEARING ON THE SEGREGATED SCHOOLS WAS MARRED BY TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES FOR LIKE AN HOUR.

SO, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH HAS BEEN LEARNED FROM IN THAT SENSE.

>> DUSTIN, YOU WENT TO A LOT OF THESE BRIEFINGS BUT YOU WERE ALSO COVERING HOW PEOPLE WERE TREATED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, MOTOR VEHICLES.

THIS WAS A -- ALSO AN EXPOSURE OF HOW THE SYSTEMS FAILED THE PEOPLE MOST IN NEED, NO, DUSTIN?

>> THAT'S PRIMARILY THE TAKEAWAY FOR ME IN THIS LAST TWO YEARS.

IT MAKES YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT IS AND WHAT ITS CAPABILITIES ARE AND WHAT REALLY GETS IGNORED OVER TIME BY VARIOUS ADMINISTRATIONS BECAUSE IT'S NOT REALLY SEXY TO GO CAMPAIGNING ON CREATING A DEPARTMENT OF LABOR COMPUTER SYSTEMS FOR A MAJOR CATASTROPHE.

SO, ALL THESE DIFFERENT SYSTEMS GET OVERLOOKED FOR SUCH A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, AND ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU ALSO SEE HOW QUICKLY GOVERNMENT CAN RESPOND IN WAYS THAT IT CAN, YOU KNOW, BY BASICALLY PRINTING MORE MONEY AND GIVING EVERYBODY CHECKS SO THEY CAN SURVIVE.

BUT THAT'S CLEARLY NOT ENOUGH, AND I THINK JUST MAKING GOVERNMENT WORK ON A BROAD LEVEL AND TO BE PREPARED FOR A CATASTROPHE IS REALLY SO IMPORTANT, AND THIS PANDEMIC HAS BEEN CLARIFYING ON THAT.

>> STACIE, REFLECTING OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS IN THE HOUSE, OUT IN WORK, AND WHEN YOUR HOUSE BECAME YOUR WORK?

>> YES, YOU'LL SEE I'M IN MY OFFICE.

I'M ONE OF THE ONLY ONES IN MY OFFICE AND I'M REALLY HAPPY TO BE BACK HERE.

THIS HAS BEEN A CHALLENGING TWO YEARS, I MEAN, FOR WORKING MOMS LIKE ME.

I WAS HOME WITH MY, YOU KNOW, MY TWO SPECIAL NEEDS KIDS, TRYING TO DO REMOTE SCHOOLING AND EDIT STORIES AT THE SAME TIME.

IT WAS REALLY TOUGH.

I THINK I LEARNED, AND EVERYONE LEARNED THE IMPORTANCE OF KIDS BEING IN SCHOOL, NOT ONLY FOR THE MOMS AND THE DADS BUT FOR THE KIDS AS WELL.

SO, I THINK A LOT -- HOPEFULLY WILL CHANGE, AND I THINK WE'RE REALLY GOING TO NEED TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES LIKE LEARNING LOSS FOR KIDS, AND THEN WHAT TO DO IN -- BECAUSE THERE WILL BE ANOTHER CRISIS LIKE THIS DOWN THE LINE AND HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH IT?

HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH CHILD CARE AND SCHOOLS AND STILL HAVE WOMEN WORKING?

>> LET ME GET TO SOME OTHER NEWS WHILE I CAN.

WE'VE GOT JUST A COUPLE MINUTES LEFT.

STEVE SWEENEY LAUNCHES A THINK TANK AT ROWEN.

DUSTIN, WHO WILL BE BETTER SERVED, THE PUBLIC OR STEVE SWEENEY'S PUBLIC PROFILE?

>> STEVE SWEENEY NO, DOUBT.

ALTHOUGH I'M SURE HE'LL PUT OUT SOME WHITE PAPERS THAT PEOPLE WILL FIND BENEFICIAL.

>> THERE'S TALK OF JOSH GOTTHEIMER FOR GOVERNOR?

WE WILL CHIP IN FOR A VENTI LATTE IF YOU ANSWER WHO IS JOSH GOTTHEIMER.

>> I HAVE LOST ALL THE COIN FLIPS TODAY, HAVEN'T I?

I MEAN, I DON'T THINK ENOUGH PEOPLE KNOW WHO HE IS, BUT I MEAN, HE COULD TAKE A STAB AT IT.

I'M NOT SURE WHAT PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT HIM, IF I'M BEING FRANK.

>> STACIE?

A BILL SET TO DIE IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE WOULD ALLOW FOR YOU TO PUMP YOUR OWN GAS.

WOULD YOU EVER?

>> I'M REALLY EMBARRASSED TO ADMIT THIS, AND I'M BLUSHING, BUT I AM NOT -- I DON'T KNOW HOW.

I'M A JERSEY GIRL.

I GUESS I COULD FIGURE IT OUT BUT I'VE NEVER REALLY HAD TO.

I WOULD -- I THINK IF THERE'S ANY TIME FOR IT TO HAPPEN WITH WHAT'S GOING ON WITH UKRAINE AND WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE LABOR SHORTAGE, NOW IS THE TIME, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF -- NEW JERSEY IS JUST STUBBORN.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S EVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> STACIE'S A BIG NO ON THAT ONE.

ALL RIGHT, STACIE, SOPHIE, DUSTIN, GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL.

THANKS FOR COMING ON WITH US AND FOR BEING GOOD SPORTS TODAY.

THAT'S "ROUNDTABLE" FOR THIS WEEK.

THANKS ALSO TO ELISE BODDIE.

A PROGRAM NOTE.

WE'LL HAVE LIVE COVERAGE OF THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET ADDRESS TUESDAY, LIVE AT 2:00 P.M. ON NJ PBS AND ALL OF OUR STREAMING PLATFORMS.

JOIN ME ALONG WITH THE DUO OF RHONDA SCHAFFLER AND JOHN REITMEYER.

THAT'S TUESDAY AT 2:00 ON NJ PBS.

YOU CAN FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER, @DAVIDCRUZNJ, AND BE SURE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE YOUTUBE CHANNEL FOR MORE "CHAT BOX," "BUSINESS BEAT" AND NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, EVERYBODY.

FOR ALL THE CREW OVER HERE, I'M DAVID CRUZ.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>> Announcer: MAJOR FUNDING FOR "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE" WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY NEW JERSEY REALTORS, THE VOICE FOR REAL ESTATE IN NEW JERSEY.

MORE INFORMATION IS ONLINE AT NJREALTOR.COM.

RWJBARNABAS HEALTH.

LET'S BE HEALTHY TOGETHER.

NJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

ROWEN UNIVERSITY, EDUCATING NEW JERSEY LEADERS, PARTNERING WITH NEW JERSEY BUSINESSES, TRANSFORMING NEW JERSEY'S FUTURE.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY "NEW JERSEY BUSINESS MAGAZINE," THE MAGAZINE OF THE NEW JERSEY BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION, REPORTING TO EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE LEADERS IN ALL 21 COUNTIES OF THE GARDEN STATE SINCE 1954.

AND BY POLITICO'S "NEW JERSEY PLAYBOOK," A TOPICAL NEWSLETTER ON GARDEN STATE POLITICS, ONLINE AT POLITICO.COM