HELLO, AND WELCOME TO THIS SPECIAL PROGRAM, A COLLABORATION BETWEEN URBAN CONSULATE AND CET.

MY NAME IS NAIMAH BILAL, ONE OF THE CO-HOSTS OF URBAN CONSULATE CINCINNATI.

WE’RE ONE OF SIX CHAPTERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, FOCUSED ON LOCAL EXCHANGE, BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER AND SHARING IDEAS FOR BETTER CITIES.

WE VIEW RACIAL, CLASS, AND GENDER EQUITY AS CENTRAL TO DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE CITIES IN WHICH WE LIVE.

TONIGHT, WE INVITE YOU INTO A CONVERSATION OF COLLECTIVE REFLECTION, RUMINATION, AND IDEATION ABOUT WHAT A THRIVING CITY LOOKS LIKE ACROSS MANY DIMENSIONS THROUGH THE VIEWPOINTS OF BLACK VISIONARIES, CHANGE MAKERS, AND WAYMAKERS.

WE HOPE YOU ENJOY.

[ Music: Sankofa (Ase) by Triiibe ] Good, or it may be something bad, but whatever you do, know what happened behind you so it will help you when you go forward.

BILAL: What is a Black Future City?

Eliminating racial injustice, what great things might be achieved?

How do we build on our rich history and grow opportunity?

How do we foster Black joy?

If these wonderings animate you, even if they challenge you, you'll want to keep it locked right here.

In the words of singer songwriter and poet Dara Carter, "Next isn't always in the future, sometimes you have to moonwalk or Sankofa your way there."

We'll do that tonight as we examine dreams for a thriving city through two points of departure: systems and soul.

As we explore through these lenses, we'll draw on lessons from our past that will propel us into the future.

But let me start by clarifying the deeper meaning of Black Future City.

No city can truly thrive if its Black citizens aren't thriving as well.

And no conversation about cities can exist without a conversation about equity.

Untangling the past and contemplating the present, Black Future City dialogues aim to widen our angle of vision to reimagine a better tomorrow.

So let's dive in, first into systems.

We are joined now by three esteemed guests who will guide and inspire us in this exploration tonight around systems.

Andrew Tudor is Chief Wealth Coach at Alchemist Wealth, an independent wealth management firm.

Among many other accolades, he currently serves as the co-chair of the Cincinnati Chamber of Commerce Alumni Network Board.

Welcome, Andrew.

TUDOR: Thanks for having me.

BILAL: Next, we have Eileen Cooper-Reed.

She's a change maker whose entire adult life has been dedicated to the improvement of the human condition, particularly for children and families of color.

Eileen practiced law specializing in advocating for our most vulnerable children and served two four-year terms as the chair of the City of Cincinnati Board of Education, addressing the issues of equity in education.

She is a member of the Xavier University President's Advisory Council and the All-In Cincinnati Core Team.

Welcome, Eileen.

COOPER-REED: Thank you, Naimah.

It's good to be here.

BILAL: And our third panelist is Dr. Angelica Hardee.

Dedicated to addressing health-related social needs in the community, her goal is making her community the most equitable and healthy region in the country.

She currently serves as Vice President of Health Strategy at the American Heart Association where she's focused on Greater Cincinnati/ Northern Kentucky's community health initiatives.

Dr. Hardee is a native of Cleveland, Ohio, and a three-time alumna of the University of Cincinnati, where she received her bachelor's, master's, and doctorate focused in public health, public policy, and global health systems.

Come on, Bearcats.

Welcome, Dr. Hardee.

HARDEE: Thank you.

Good evening, everyone.

BILAL: So, it is such a joy to sit among you and go on this journey.

I want to start with a question for you, Eileen.

You know, as we're plotting a course together toward a Black Future City, I want to dream really, really big with you.

If there were no constraints placed on us, and if we weren't entrenched in a place of racial inequity that we find ourselves in today.

In your mind, what would be some of the defining characteristics of a thriving Black Future City?

COOPER-REED: I've thought about this question quite a bit and I look back over the years and my experience.

And though there are a number of defining characteristics, I would start with: Are the Black children thriving?

A future city where Black children are thriving is what I'd want to see.

And the reason I want to see that is because if the Black children are thriving, everybody else is.

If they have decent housing, we know everybody else in their family does.

If they can get a decent education, we know that they're prepared for the future.

If they're eating properly and exercising properly and playing sports and doing all those things that children do, then they're healthy.

And much of that depends on what?

The economics of the situation.

So we know if Black children are thriving, then their parents or caregivers are able to participate successfully in the local economy.

They're able to participate in a way that they can provide those things for their children.

They can provide for their children, they're providing for themselves.

And so -- but even more than that, it also means that everybody else in the community values them too, or else none of those things will happen.

So, if we have thriving Black children, we've probably got a thriving Black city.

BILAL: I love that we can look to children as the indicator of thriving.

I mean, because this is, of course, where it all begins.

What a beautiful place to start.

This is for Andrew.

So, you know, as we cast our vision toward a Future Black City, we can't also forget about a vision for resources, for economics.

And I'm animated in this moment by a chance to kind of revision some of the underlying value systems that drive how we view money and how we acquire wealth.

And I'm curious to know what novel ideas can we bring into our vision of a thriving city that writes over, you know, our current views of how, again, how we measure wealth, in particular within the Black community?

TUDOR: I think when we start having conversations, I spend most of my time having money, wealth management conversations with families of color and business owners.

And we very quickly pivot away from money.

Money is the resource to drive dreams, but it's not necessarily the end all, be all.

And so when we dive into those conversations, what we don't talk about when we talk about wealth management and inheritance are all of the non-financial inheritance that we receive.

And even at the higher end of the spectrum, when we have all of the resources in the world, those non-financial inheritances are the ones that last longer.

And so there's a story now that I'm experiencing in my industry that really highlights the power of those non-financial inheritance that we don't really talk about and don't value as much in our community.

And it's the story of actually the two most prominent wealth managers in the United States who are African-American.

So, Eddie Brown, Sr. out of Baltimore, Maryland, and John Rogers Jr. out of Chicago, Illinois.

Both of their grandparents, their grandfathers were actually men of means.

So Eddie Brown's grandfather in Apopka, Florida, was the largest landowner in the county in 1920, he wrote in his autobiography, that that was taken away from him in a racial riot.

And there were over 20 Black folks killed and he fled.

He never received a dime of inheritance from his grandfather, but he learned the lessons and the business acumen, and I believe, the confidence and the mindset of what it looks like to steward wealth well.

And he launched into a career, opened his own shop in 1983, the first of its kind, and now manages $14 billion.

A year after his grandfather had it taken away from him, in 1921 the Tulsa race riots happened.

And at the center of those riots of stripping of hundreds of millions of dollars of economic equity, property from the Black community there, there was the Stratford Hotel.

And JB Stratford, who owned a lot of the land there, fled north to Chicago.

And he never regained his economic prominence either, but he raised his grandson, John Rogers, Jr. And so it's not a coincidence that the two largest wealth managers of color in the country both had their grandparents who had built wealth had it taken from them, but had the opportunity to inherit all of the lessons, but not all of the dollars.

So, it's not all about money and we have to really start appreciating and re-teaching the values, the mindset, and the habits of what good stewardship and wealth management looks like.

BILAL: Yeah, what's so stunning about that is when we think of inheritance, we are all automatically tied to like, you know, monetary gain.

And I am going to be walking away with this notion that, yeah, let's talk about inheritance of mindset.

Let's talk about inheritance of insights about resources and how to build upon that.

It's an extraordinary way to kind of refract, you know, how we look at money and resources.

Dr. Hardee, we've all been sitting in a space of confronting some of the stark, painful, and sad realities that COVID-19 has brought to bear.

And what COVID-19 has revealed are stunning health disparities, racial -- along racial lines, right?

And even though Black people are disproportionately impacted by the disease, Black people are also disproportionately isolated from treatments, from the vaccine.

The vaccines, I should say.

And so, broadly speaking, from a health care standpoint and well-being standpoint generally, what do you hope the future holds for Black people?

HARDEE: Thank you.

That's a great question.

I think in the last year you said we've been sitting, not only sitting figuratively, but we've literally been sitting a lot more knowing that in order to keep our families, ourselves, and our communities safe we want to remain socially distant, we want to wear a mask.

And when available, we want to get the vaccine to our communities because we know we are disproportionately affected or impacted by COVID-19.

But I think what this year, it's almost a year, has taught us now is that we really need to do a better job of taking care of ourselves.

And we talk about self care.

We think like take a bath or a bubble bath or maybe getting a pedicure, do your own pedicures at home, all those facials and all those type of things.

But I often think about those five energy drivers that I really want us to accept and continue to embody after COVID-19 ends and we get to some point of normalcy.

One part of that is moving more.

And I say that as an individual personal behavior, but we also can think about what our communities look like and the ability to move more.

Right?

How many parks, the access to sidewalks and things of that nature are in your community for you able to take action and be able to go outside and play?

So I say it as a personal, but it's also a system change in there as well when you think that access, where are the walking trails often at?

Where are the communities where there's walkable parks and activities for children to play?

In addition to that, eating healthy foods.

Personally, trying new recipes that are healthy and quick often because we are often on this kind of rat race inside even.

We thought this was the time to pause, but I think we have now adjusted to that pause and it now turns into virtually doing things from going to school, potentially going to work, and then managing both if you are an essential worker that is going to your job every day.

So what are our access to healthy foods?

And you can put that in the same perspective of a systems change as well.

We know that our Black and brown communities are specifically affected by having a lack of access to healthy foods in the communities, a lot more processed and fried foods that are not healthy for us.

In addition to that, relaxing more.

And I think we thought we were relaxing for a while, but as I mentioned, we've adjusted and we're not really taking time for ourselves.

Putting personal time in there to really spend time with our family.

I think that's one thing that has come out of this COVID time period of really appreciating our families and being able to spend time in the house, socially distanced as well.

And then lastly -- or not lastly, but having an appropriate amount of sleep, getting rest.

And then one lastly is remaining socially connected.

So it is so essential and there are many research studies that show when we lack social connectedness we really are not able to thrive.

And that doesn't need to be something really -- You're connecting with us right now tonight, you're listening to these stories.

You may be able to connect and ask your friend or family member if they watched it too when you're able to have a discussion about it.

But it's so important to think about how social connectedness plays a huge role in our health.

I love the quote from Michelle Obama that says: we need to do a better job of putting ourselves higher on our To-Do list.

And I think that is essential for our Black Future City.

We have to put ourselves higher on our To-Do list.

BILAL: Absolutely, and big shout out to Michelle Obama, who I think has embodied an encouragement for self care.

And elevated self care is a much more than just a practice of sort of caring for the physical body.

It's just so much more than that.

It's also surrounding yourself with a community of individuals who will allow you to do that.

Thank you for those insights, Dr. Hardee.

This next one is for you, Eileen.

I have been absolutely animated by a design principle, universal design.

And as it applies to city building, this principle holds that when plans are being created to build something that they center those who are often underserved.

And so a really good example is you build a ramp for someone who may need wheelchair access, but so many other individuals benefit from that universal design.

So, what might be possible if we apply the same principle to the systems that we want to recreate, that place Black people and other underserved people at the center?

COOPER-REED: I think almost anything is possible if we have the community will to do it.

That said, we really do have to understand what we're talking about or how we would implement universal design, I think.

And what we do is use a principle that follows from that called targeted universalism.

And what that means is that if you take a group of people and you say, okay -- let's take a classroom of students.

And you say we were giving them this test to see whether or not they're proficient.

And what we find when we give them the test is 80% of them are proficient, so 20% aren't.

Well, who are you going to work with in order to get 100%?

The 80% really just needs to be maintained.

It's the 20% that you need to devote resources to, additional resources at least so that you'll then get 100%.

Now you may never get 100%, but my point is when you see that there's a need, equity dictates that that's where you put additional resources.

You don't take resources necessarily from the larger group.

What you do is you additional resources to those who need them.

And that's what equity is, is leveling the playing field.

Right?

So the possibilities are tremendous.

But we really have to organize ourselves in a way that allows us to take advantage of the targeted universalism and apply them well.

BILAL: Yeah.. COOPER-REED: The All-In Coalition, for instance, it uses targeted universalism because when we did an analysis of data across the city, across Cincinnati and Hamilton County, we found that Black women were at the lowest end of the data set for almost everything that we're talking about: housing, education.

We know that.

So who do you target?

You target Black women if you want to change things, because that means everybody is going to be helped in the long run, that's what it means.

Now folks don't necessarily understand that, but it would be helpful if they would because it's not taking anything away from them.

It is lifting the -- what is it?

The boat lifts all -- The tide lifts all boats.

That's what it is, the tide lifts all boats.

In this instance, we want to do the targeted universalism so that we can, as a principle I think, of universal design I would say.

BILAL: Beautiful, I love that we consider the delta.

If it shifts for those who are most vulnerable, it shifts for everybody, those shift very dramatically.

Andrew, we don't have to go far back to, you know, days of slavery, Jim Crow, to understand the discrimination that has been imprinted and encoded into our system.

But, you know, we do know that enduring legacies of racism, still perpetuating racism has helped set -- It's helped set our nation on this trajectory that has led to huge wealth gap and widening ever still.

By 2053, it's predicted that the median wealth of Black and Latinx households are projected to fall to zero.

It's just a stunning statistic, but if we, again, we widen our angle of vision, what absolutely radical and audacious ideas can we pursue to set this trajectory in another direction?

TUDOR: I love this question because it's one of the things I'm most passionate about.

The way we talk about the wealth gap has to change.

I think that's the first earth-shattering dynamic shift is a mental shift.

We are not going to shame Black folks into saving more money.

We're not going to shame Black folks into building more wealth.

And I think the way it's talked about and packaged now, in my opinion, is demoralizing, when actually it's just math.

Mathematically, wealth compounds the way that compound interest works over time at an increasing rate that is really tough to ever catch up to it if you're behind on time.

And we are talking about comparing -- Most Black families are in their second generation of equal protection under the law, decently fair housing, access to investment vehicles, and priced insurance that's actually fair, not to talk about housing and education, not to talk about business lending, home lending.

So there are so many parts of our financial picture that have been tainted for the vast majority of American history by race alone that it makes a ton of sense that the average white family would have 10 times, 20 times the wealth.

So I think if we understand that that is what math looks like.

We've all played Monopoly.

That's what a Monopoly game would look like.

If Naimah played 20 rounds and then I came in, everything would be bought and rent would be really high.

Right?

And so I think the way we address it has to change because in my circles and in the circles I'm in, I think we just talk bad about Black folks in a way that's unwanted.

But the answer is the mindset shift has to matter.

We're not going to catch the wealth gap in 50 years.

It's a 400 year problem and compounding interest is against us.

But I think we have to understand that wealth building is a team sport.

And that means your family unit, your friend unit should learn how to collaboratively learn, hold accountable, and build wealth pools to then get access to deals, to learn information, to just get comfortable with what it looks like to make different financial decisions.

Most of the financial decisions I make my parents did not have access to.

They can't teach me that part.

BILAL: Right.

TUDOR: And so that in practice now, in 2016 we started an all Black male investment group, started with seven of us.

There's now 25 of us.

We contribute $100 a month and we invest in real estate locally.

We invest in, you know, looking at small businesses.

And we are learning faster than I ever would have learned by myself.

And so I think when we're thinking about it, it's the old adage, if you want to go fast, go alone, but if you want to go far, you need to go together.

And we have a far way to go, so we have to figure out how to make this a team sport.

BILAL: Dr. Hardee, there is a quote that when I say I love it, it's quite revealing in that it reveals just the deeply entrenched inequity.

But this quote says that nobody really has to be racist in today's world because there are so many systems that do it automatically.

Right?

And so from your perspective, from again a health and wellness perspective, how can we live the opposite of that and make that in, you know, bring that into fruition?

The opposite being nobody really needs to be just and equitable because there are so many systems that make it automatic.

HARDEE: Yeah, I love that question and thinking about that in the opposite is really inspiring because, one, we might all be out of jobs, but I'm like that would be great if we had other problems to deal with other than the inequitable systems in every single -- from food to housing to education.

As you mentioned, Andrew, and we've talked about, these are rooted in racist policy.

So our work now is to disrupt and dismantle these systems and recreate ones that are equitable for our community.

I think as an example, I mean, we can go into any different industry, but we've seen how food and food insecurity within our communities has been impacted by COVID-19.

Right?

We knew that food was an issue in our community before COVID-19 hit, but we think about different programing and assistance.

And when we actually dig deep to see how these policies are created, we still can find barriers to really growing and be to the Black Future City that we want to see.

So if we think about SNAP, or also known as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, that is a government assistance program that provides an amount of money based on family size and children, etc.

And the American dream was that if you work hard enough, no matter where you are, they will help you with this low income food subsidy.

But the problem happens when you make a dollar more, even five dollars, a dollar an hour, you are no longer eligible for those programs.

And that, let's just say $200 a month you were getting to feed your family, completely goes away.

We realize we're back at square one because now I have $200 less to buy food that I have to now take from my check.

There is no kind of weighted system.

It can literally mean you will have the resource or you won't.

So when we look at policies like that, we look at if this is supposed to help you be self-sufficient, and I use that in air quotes.

If this is supposed to help you be self-sufficient and achieve this, how is this policy helping you do that?

We have to disrupt and dismantle these systems.

And we can look in various different organizations -- Or I'm sorry, systems, governmental policies, organizational policies as well, to really address these.

And we know food leads to our health outcomes.

We know healthy food means that.

When you can go to a fast food restaurant and get a food for $4 to a $1 to feed your family and now I don't have that government subsidy, like this doesn't make sense.

So we really have to start to work in our different areas to address and dismantle these systems.

BILAL: Thank you.

It's an extraordinary view into the the big work that lies before us.

I want to thank each of you, Andrew, Eileen, Dr. Hardee, for your incredible insights.

And what you bring to this space is just extraordinarily rich, thoughtful.

And I believe some of the strategies you're talking about will most certainly have an impact on our city.

So thank you for being you and thank you for being here.

TUDOR: Thank you.

COOPER-REED: Thanks for having us.

BILAL: Wow, that was amazing, right?

But we're not done yet.

So we started by looking at the systems that could be reimagined and rebuilt with equity at the center here in Cincinnati.

But it's not just the institutions and the systems that power them that we want to thrive and be inclusive.

We want the culture to thrive, the very soul of the city.

We'll dive into that in the second half.

But first, let's enrich our souls with a little soul music from one of Cincinnati's finest talents, Lauren Eylise.

She gained national attention last year through NPR's Tiny Desk contest, and many accolades and recognitions are starting to follow.

We're so happy to share this electrifying performance with you.

It's the submission she recorded for that contest.

It's the perfect piece to inspire and move us into the next part of our conversation.

Here it is, Peaks and Valleys by Lauren Eylise.

[ singing ] Peaks and valleys I was flying, now I'm falling short again I've been dodging all my friends Tell me where this ends Peaks and valleys I've been crying, I've been heavy on myself I took my pride on off the shelf admit I need some help Round and around and around I go all in my head Racing my thoughts I reveal my own heart and I'm scared to go on any further There ain't no savior to, to save me from you you you you you And there ain't no temple to, to hide all my truth I ain't got nobody, no one to take me away, oh, I made this bed so right here is where I'm going to lay But I say forget these problems, one day I'll set them ablaze And every illusion and every mistake goes up in flames Oh Round and around and around I go all in my head Yeah, yeah Racing my thoughts I reveal my own heart it's a shame That I waited this long There ain't no savior to, to Save me from you You, you, you, you There ain't no temple To, to hide all my truth, No Ain't no choir gonna sing my song Ain't nobody gonna carry my cross I ain't no saint or sinner I ain't wrong Ain't no choir gonna sing my song Ain't nobody gonna carry my cross I ain't no saint or sinner I ain't wrong, no Peaks and valleys I've been crying, I've been heavy on myself I took my pride on off that shelf There ain't no savior to, to Save me from you There ain't no temple No, oh No I just gotta walk all my Peaks and valleys My peaks and valleys Peaks and valleys All my peaks and valleys My peaks and valleys Ohhhh [ chuckles ] BILAL: Absolutely beautiful.

Her musicality and her depth of emotion, she kills it every time.

You can learn more about Lauren Eylise's music at LaurenEylise.com.

Okay, now on to the second half of tonight's visionary sojourn.

Cities don't just rely on interlocking systems of equity to thrive.

They also rely on the soul.

We're talking about the human experience, the experience of being a human being.

Art and expression for time immemorial have been tools to reflect the totality of the Black experience, it lifts our spirits, it reflects our joy, it reflects our grief, and it's also a tool that can be used to agitate people into action, into protest.

We have a notably rich history of Black creative expression.

So just how do we preserve and build upon that rich legacy of artistic expression?

How do we accomplish this within equitable bounds?

And how do we tend to our souls?

Well, to help us dig into these questions, I'm very happy to introduce three more amazing and insightful guests.

Our first guest is a comic, a writer, and a musician, and so, so much more.

Named one of KQED Women to Watch, Luna Malbroux is the creator of the award winning play How to Be a White Man, and host of the comedy talk show Live Sex.

Ms. Multi-Hyphenate, Luna, thank you so much for being here with us.

MALBROUX: It's my pleasure.

Thank you for having me.

BILAL: With us as well is Toilynn O'Neal Turner, a talented artist, advocate, community leader, and educator.

Toilynn has worked tirelessly to promote and provide a platform for diverse voices in the arts, whether that's at her new American Art Gallery or the Robert O'Neill Multicultural Arts Center or any number of institutions in the region.

She is also a past recipient of the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestras MAC Award for Diversity and Leadership in the Arts.

Toilynn, welcome.

TURNER: Thank you very much.

I'm excited to be here with guys this evening.

BILAL: So great to have you here.

And rounding out our group is Damian Hoskins, who has melded a passion for community impact with his love for the arts and education.

In his current role as general manager of Elementz, a hip-hop cultural arts center right here in the city, he works to catalyze change for the city's youth, fostering talent, and inspiring possibilities through the preservation and promotion of hip-hop as a creative force.

Damien, it's a pleasure to have you here with us.

HOSKINS: Absolutely, my pleasure.

BILAL: So, Luna, let's dig in.

I am electrified by a lot of the writing of Audre Lorde.

And she talks about self care in such a stark way.

And she says: caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation, and that is an act of political warfare.

So how do you imagine our city might look and feel when Black people can tend to themselves, tend to their well-being and self care and heal?

I mean, we're talking like intergenerational wounds from oppression.

MALBROUX: Absolutely.

I love Audre Lorde as well and take a lot of inspiration from her and many of the people that follow in her lineage right now, such as Adrienne Maree Brown and Sonya Renee Taylor, who talk a lot about radical self-love as the key to fight oppression.

And what I gleaned from all these words and what I build into inspiration in the work that I do is that there's so many systems and isms that tell us that we can't be in the fullness of our humanity.

Right?

That we can't feel our feelings, our emotions, that we have to change or adjust who we are in order to climb the ladder, in order to fit in, in order to survive, literally.

And so I feel like so many of us are still in this space of survival.

And that is an intergenerational wound that we have to heal.

And when we do tend to that and heal that and hear and care for each other and show up in our fullness, what we'll see in our cities is a lot more creativity, a lot more innovation, a lot more risk taking.

I stumbled upon winning an app competition back in 2016 in creating an app called EquiTable that splits the dinner bill where Black women and people that get paid less pay less.

And at the time people were like, "This is a brilliant idea.

Who would have thought of it?"

A Black woman would have thought of it.

I had the experience of getting underpaid.

And so just from that stumbling on into an opportunity, what I always think of is how many more people are left out of opportunities that they didn't get a chance to stumble in?

And we have so much ingenuity and creativity and brilliance in our Black communities.

And what I'm hoping to see are cities where all of that gets to thrive and everyone gets access to dream and see their dreams materialized.

BILAL: Everyone gets access to see their dreams realized.

Oh, so stunning.

Thank you.

This is for you, Toilynn.

So, you know, when I think about cities and I'm looking at the beautiful art in the background on these canvases.

And I think of cities as these interwoven, interlocking canvases of art and expression.

And so it's both heard, it's seen.

We've got cityscapes.

We've got street art, you know.

And I think about, like on my way over here, a car blasting Cardi B, you know, it was just, you know, good music.

I mean, we can also look at, like the Black Lives Matter mural in front of City Hall.

So the question for me is like as our city changes before our eyes due to gentrification.

Right?

And frankly, displacement of Black residents as a result, what ideas can we catalyze that can keep Black creativity embedded into the city experience?

TURNER: Well, I think a couple of things that really hit me right at the top is that we have to really be intentional about our cultural hubs and even promote the ones that already exist.

We have to be very deliberate and intentional about making sure that the art experience that supports Black artists also uplifts them and engages the community and teaches the community.

And we also lastly have to celebrate the richness in our history and our diversity of Black culture and not also be defined by what people think Blackness is, but actually show the vast ranges of what Black culture is through various styles and genres of the arts.

And I think when we get to that place where we can be really intentional with our work and we can be very intentional about where we are, and we also have these hubs, that's going to make us have this really close-knit environment in which we're able to connect and do things and also share with other cultures as well.

BILAL: Cultural hubs.

For Damien, I can't help but think of the enduring power of Black expression and the soul and the music and the art that's emerged from Black culture.

Though not all of it was forged in pain, some of the DNA of our music, you know, reflects a deep grief and a deep pain.

Right?

And there's this through line again from like spirituals to the blues and, you know, modern day hip-hop even, you know?

But what does a Black art even look like when systems are built to support Black joy and wellness?

HOSKINS: It's an interesting question.

I'm not entirely sure it's equitable or fair one, because pain and difficulty is a part of life and it's integral to the human experience.

But Black people have historically persisted through isn't just pain and difficult.

It's to coin a phrase by Ta-Nehisi Coates, "It's discriminatory practices designed to destroy the Black body."

And that's different from just pain and difficulty.

And that difference is a difference from dealing with the conditions of fate.

We had a rich culture in artistic expression well before colonialism and oppression and death.

And we have maintained that richness of culture in spite of and as a response to that oppression, death, and murder.

Right?

But that risk is archived in our beings.

In many cases, it's embedded in our collective DNA, as you said.

And I feel like Black art in the context of equitable systems, I mean, it will be informed by Black art pre-colonialism and it will do what we are known to do, which is combining the richness of our experiences with the technologies of the day to process, you know, these creative things.

And they'll be reflective of the times.

It's like cooking.

You know, we see how many people we need to feed with our creation.

We get the ingredients together.

We turn up the heat and then sprinkle in the seasoning until the ancestors until the ancestors tell us to stop.

BILAL: Mmmm.

HOSKINS: And then you give the people something that will stick to their souls.

I think the caveat, though, is that we're not going to wait for these systems that are supposed to support Black joy and wellness to be built.

You know, I think we're building them now.

BILAL: Yeah.

HOSKINS: In some cases that art is infused in the process and product.

BILAL: First of all, I love that last analogy.

Turn up the heat, throw in the spice, and you stop when the ancestors say so.

I love that.

So for time immemorial, Luna, Black creatives have worked to create art that responds to, animates, catalyzes, agitates a movement.

What do you see on the horizon for Black creativity in this newest era of reckoning with white supremacy?

MALBROUX: Oh, I love that question.

And I'm going to -- I'm still simmering on what Damian said about cooking until the ancestors tell you to stop, because I feel like -- or seasoning until the ancestors tell you to stop, because I feel like that's connected to my perspective on this.

You know, you mentioned that I wrote a play back in 2016, 2017 called How to Be a White Man.

That play was satirical in nature that really explored the aspect of what would it be like for Black women to try to hack white male privilege, or so to speak, move through the world with the confidence of a mediocre white man.

So it really poked fun at white privilege and white fragility and flipped it on it's head, begged the question of what does Black success look like?

What does the Black experience look like outside of the comparison to the white gaze or in the shadow of the lives of white supremacy?

And even when I hear that play now, I kind of cringe a little bit because I feel like the satire is lost.

And I also feel like where creatives are moving and where I'm moving is a space that is de-centering whiteness all together -- BILAL: Mmmm.

MALBROUX: [indiscernible] - - white supremacy and really being in a space where we're focused on Black pleasure and Black joy and Afro futurism and really delving into creating the future that we want and imagining and building a world without the shadow of the lives of white supremacy.

And, you know, really the fun of creativity right now where I see so many Black creatives going to is just being like, let's just center ourselves.

It's like we have enough stories.

Not enough, there's always more.

We have a lot of stories about that, the tension and the struggle against.

But what about the stories of the expansiveness within, right?

And that's where I'm really thriving right now.

And I can't wait to see what this new iteration of creativity around this time looks like and I'm marinating on some things and I just can't wait to produce that as well.

BILAL: Oh, well, we can't wait to see what you produce.

Anything that's going to center Black joy and Black wellness and our stories, I mean, it's so vital to the vitality, right, of our creative expression.

Love that.

So for Toilynn, a lot of my questions sort of dig into if resources were no object.

Right?

Like if there were no constraints, what prescription would you give for a city looking to fully support Black creatives?

TURNER: Well, the first thing I think part of the prescription would be that we have to have a real honest conversation about what the condition, the illness, the miseducation, the exclusion that has happened with Black artists and Black creators for centuries.

And we also have to have a real good conversation about what that looks like as we move forward.

We need to make sure that not only do we talk about the past to get to the future, but we also need to talk about where the artists fit in this conversation, the Black artists.

And they need to be able to be in front of the conversation, not just taking the resources or opportunities, but they need to be part of deciding what resources, opportunities they need.

And then we also need to really look at if I could give the city a lens of equity as a prescription of really looking at the funding sources, opportunities, venues, and also other assets that have been out there for the majority culture with arts for centuries.

And that lens of equity would also present a sense of justice.

BILAL: Mmmm.

TURNER: And that justice would also lends itself that we would actually be collaborative in the art movement of our city, where art is part of our infrastructure, it's part of what makes our city have economy.

And that we would be part of saying the arts is impactful in the city and it deserves funding.

BILAL: Yeah.

TURNER: And holistic funding for all of us at a level of equity that we have never seen before.

BILAL: Mmm, mm, mmm.

I love how you painted this picture of like the domino effect.

Right?

You address the equity and think about the exponential growth that we could see and the vibrancy that comes from that, from that place.

I love that imagery.

Damien, so we're going to go back to Black creative art forms, right, that emerged, you know, from Black people, some of our nation's most defining art forms.

I'm thinking of jazz, I'm thinking of the blues, again, hip-hop, R&B emerged from cities.

Right?

Can you talk about the power of cities as these, like, boundless staging grounds of creativity?

HOSKINS: Yes.

So a lot of artists created out of the context of an environment.

Right?

Even if you think about hip-hop culture, the conditions under which hip-hop culture emerged were terrible conditions, but they also served as a part of the ingredients that made it what it was.

It was sort of that counterculture that was born in spite of the destruction of the city that was around it.

BILAL: Yeah.

TURNER: If you fast forward that to, you know, 2021, some of the art that was being created even now is reflective not only of Cincinnati, but the conditions that affect Cincinnati, that affect any city in the United States of America, or even globally.

You know, the context has changed for us as human beings.

You know, you have a global pandemic, which we haven't seen obviously in our lifetimes and in several generations that's influencing how we're dealing with one another, that's influencing the media that we're using, the materials that we're using to create.

It's forcing us to move out of spaces where we can sit next to one another and be even more innovative with technology.

And that's influencing what product, the end creative product looks like.

And it has an opportunity to be even more than what it's been before, just based on that context, because context and probability changes just about everything.

But to look at the vibrancy of a city and know that there was responsibility in the leaders in making that city vibrant because that, as was mentioned earlier, has a ripple effect on the people that are the creatives in that city.

And that creativity builds the kind of connection one to another that allows everything really not only just to go, but to go with a rhythm, to go with the feeling, to go with the sound.

BILAL: Mmmm.

HOSKINS: And all of those things makes our lives richer, even if they play as a backdrop to the other things that we do.

But us as Black people, we know that whatever we're doing, whether we're doing open heart surgery or fixing a car, there is a rhythm to what we do.

And that creativity serves as the soundtrack and the visual construct to that rhythm.

BILAL: Mmmm, rhythm as a practice.

I love it.

I am so grateful for each of you and your tremendous perspective on soul.

I feel like my soul is richer, I don't know about you.

I'm also a little hungry after that cooking analogy that Damian threw out there.

But yeah, thank you so much for being here and for sharing parts of your soul with us this evening.

TURNER: Thank you.

HOSKINS: Thank you.

MALBROUX: Thank you so much, yeah.

BILAL: So tonight we examined what a thriving city can look like and feel like through two lenses: systems and soul.

And these two different viewpoints from which to examine and imagine a Black Future City help us create, hopefully, a widened lens as to what that pathway might look like.

And so here is where we bring you into the conversation.

WE COULD GO SO MUCH DEEPER INTO THESE TOPICS, AND OF COURSE WE WILL, AS WE MOVE THIS CITY FORWARD TOGETHER.

YOU CAN FIND OUT ABOUT ALL OF URBAN CONSULATES UPCOMING LIVE AND VIRTUAL EVENTS, - THE SECOND MONDAY EVERY MONTH - AT URBANCONSULATE.COM/CINCINNATI.

THEY’RE HOSTED BY MYSELF OR MY WONDERFUL CO-HOST, MEGAN TRISCHLER.

YOU CAN ALSO FIND INFORMATION ABOUT THIS PROGRAM: UNTIL NEXT TIME, FOR URBAN CONSULATE AND OUR PARTNERS HERE AT CET, I’M NAIMAH BILAL.

GOOD NIGHT.

[ MUSIC: Sankofa (Ase) by Triiibe ] Captions: Maverick Captioning Cincinnati, Ohio www.maverickcaptioning.com.