ANNOUNCER: The following program is made possible thanks to the support of: BRIELLE: A dream school for me is inclusive, diverse and equitable.

NAIMAH: Equity, it's a goal for many communities, but what does it mean when we apply it to our schools?

ETERNITI: Equity, I've always thought it was a term for money, but there's actually more to it.

TAYLOR: The equality is where we get the same things, but equity is when we get what we need.

RUTH: It's important to make sure that everybody has the same access to resources, and like things like technology, food, whatever they might need.

NAIMAH: While schools, teachers, parents, caregivers, and advocates look for solutions, students are also speaking up as they face the impacts every day.

BELLA: We're focusing on removing school resource officers from Cincinnati Public Schools and implementing restorative justice practices.

NAIMAH: On this episode of Urban Consulate Presents, we're talking equity in education, the nuances, the obstacles, and the good efforts underway in classrooms today.

KYLIE: If you're not comfortable with being uncomfortable, then you're not having the conversations that you need to be having.

[ MUSIC: Sankofa (Ase) by Triiibe ] NAIMAH: Hello and welcome to another edition of Urban Consulate Presents.

I'm Naimah Bilal, one of the co-hosts of Urban Consulate Cincinnati.

Today we're focused on equity in education.

And we're here at the beautiful College of Education, Criminal Justice, Human Services, and Information Technology at the University of Cincinnati.

And this place holds major significance because it is also where Jennie Davis Porter became the first black woman to earn a PhD in education in Cincinnati.

She went on to become the first black principal of a public school in Cincinnati and impacted so many young lives with her work.

So for a truly equitable education system to exist, we know all children must get what they need to succeed and to thrive.

And that takes on many forms, from resources to school funding to support structures, mentorship, equitable applications of assessments, and so, so much more.

We're going to peel back the layers of some of those today, and as you've seen and heard already, to do that, we'll be sharing insights from a number of students in the Cincinnati area throughout our conversation today because they are at the very heart of everything we're discussing today.

We must remember that.

This discussion is also one I've been looking very forward to because of our incredible panel.

We are so lucky to have with us knowledgeable, inspirational thought leaders and advocates in education.

And we're thankful to have with us, first, Chara Fisher Jackson.

Chara is currently the Executive Director and CEO of Cincinnati Preschool Promise, but she has a history of supporting equity based solutions with the Urban League and also as a former leader of the ACLU of Georgia.

Alongside her is Tim'm West.

Tim'm is an educator, poet, youth advocate, and a hip hop artist, among so many other roles.

Timon also leads Teach for America's National LGBTQ+ community initiative.

And rounding out our group today is Kathy D. Wright.

Kathy is the Vice President of school leadership development at the Dream Builders University.

She's also spent many, many decades as a leader within the Cincinnati Public School system, first as a teacher, then as a principal at Hughes STEM High School.

Thank you all for joining us today.

It is so wonderful sitting alongside of you in conversation.

We know education has huge purpose and meaning, beyond skills, beyond applying one's knowledge and memorizing rote material.

So the role that education plays in the lives of children of color in particular has even bigger meaning.

And so I'm curious to know from your experiences what is the defining larger meaning of education, in particular for black and brown children?

Tim'm, we'll start with you.

TIM'M: You know, my mind immediately goes to third grade.

You know, coming out of a low income family with my share of trauma and other things that were happening, acted out quite a bit.

And Miss Scott knew that that was the case.

She saw in me a shrewd intelligence.

And when I deliberately tried to fail, told me, "You can do better."

So I would say empowerment, right?

The ability for a teacher to notice and identify in a student a potential and set a pathway for them seeing beyond that moment.

Right?

It wasn't just about third grade.

I was able to envision my life past high school.

I was able to imagine what kind of family I wanted to have and the kind of neighborhood I wanted to have access to.

And she set that pathway as an example.

And it was important that she was a black woman because I think in my community, being able to see those standards of excellence mirrored in someone right before me and teaching me was was critical.

NAIMAH: Education as empowerment?

TIM'M: Yes.

NAIMAH: Critical, beautiful.

Chara, what about you?

CHARA: Education is a means to critical thinking that provides access to everything.

A formal education system teaches you how to think.

I was raised by a college professor who was a lifelong educator, but didn't see any teachers or professors who looked like me until I got to law school.

And so it was important that I understand not only who teaches is important, but the learning and the pedagogical concepts and the idea of education and learning being important to being a full person, to knowing how you address any situation and how you advance.

And as you said, Tim'm, make a plan for your life and what that looks like.

Education gives you the means to access all of that.

NAIMAH: That is super powerful because that speaks to identity and self-awareness and self-empowerment.

Kathy, what about you?

KATHY: Well, I would add to that grit and resilience in the development of agency.

It makes me think back to ninth grade.

I am a product of Chicago Public Schools.

And in Chicago I was on an accelerated track.

And my family decided at the end of eighth grade that they would move us to Jackson, Mississippi.

And I ended up going to Jackson Public Schools.

And because I had been in an accelerated track, I was moving ahead in mathematics and ended up being the only African-American child in a classroom for geometry, taking geometry.

And I remember the very first examination.

We got those assessments back and I had the highest score.

And a young man in the back of the classroom asked the teacher, "Well, who got the highest score?"

And when she pointed to me, his response was, "Well, she must have cheated."

I remember feeling really small and marginalized in that conversation.

And at that point I knew that I had to do better, that I had to establish myself as an academic in all spaces, and that I had to make sure that I had the grit and the stamina to sustain my grades and to move forward into college.

So I think it's really important for education to build that into young people, make sure that they have -- that they develop a voice so that they can advocate for themselves and that they develop the grit and the resilience to sustain themselves and move further in their education.

NAIMAH: Super powerful.

So some of your responses kind of hit on this notion of identity, representation, and that's definitely one of the key components of equity and one of the larger meanings of education.

And I'd like to dig a little deeper right now to get us started though I want to bring in some of the thoughts and experiences that actual current students are having around these notions.

Let's take a look.

TAYLOR: I actually enjoyed like kind of growing up.

I really didn't get to see it a lot because, you know, we had a lot of white teachers because it was kind of not instilled, but it was kind of shown a lot that an African-American had to work a lot harder than most white men or women could to at least get, like become a teacher or something higher than that.

ANAIS: I see some teachers that obviously are also black, but it's basically it.

It's they're really few of them here.

Most of them are white, and I don't see myself presented into it, like, I don't see it at all.

I feel like it does impact me in the sense that sometimes when you have something like a critical passion that you may only want to ask to someone who understand your struggle, it's a little hard to find.

TERI'ANA: I used to go to a public school called Dennis, and I never really saw myself.

I don't remember ever having a black teacher.

But then coming here I've seen a few, and I think this year I think this is the most I've really ever seen.

I had a teacher when -- we started seeing her in eighth grade, and then she started working here when I was in ninth grade.

And she introduced me to so many different things and she helped me out like becoming better with myself, with my education, being in school and things like that.

And so seeing her made me want to do more and made me want to become more.

Seeing myself period made me want to change things.

KYLIE: It makes me sad that in my earlier years, I had one black teacher, and she wasn't even my actual teacher, she was like a team teacher.

Within the past three years, I've been able to see two of my math teachers be very strong black, independent women in education.

And I didn't see that until I was in the ninth grade.

So I feel like if I was introduced to that a little earlier on, maybe I would have been encouraged to go into education and want to do that.

But I didn't see myself in that profession.

NAIMAH: I am listening to the insights from all of the students we just heard.

And it brings to mind this question or this saying that children, students, they can't be what they can't see.

So Tim'm, can you speak to the importance of the black educator workforce?

And maybe walk us through what was the unintended consequence, one of them, from school de-segregation that decimated the workforce?

And how can we support the building up of this important workforce so that students and children can see themselves represented in the teacher body?

TIM'M: Well, I mean, think it's important, like students need both mirrors and windows, right?

They need to see themselves reflected by their teachers.

They also need to be able to look out, right?

And so I think the important thing about representation historically, especially between '64 and '72, which is the year I was born here in Cincinnati, we lost 32% of the black teacher workforce.

Right?

And that's significant not only for those black students who, as our testimonies earlier demonstrated, that some of us came up in systems where we didn't have access to a lot of those teachers.

It's important for black students to have that, but it's also important for white students and other students, Latinx students to have the representation.

As someone that taught in a multiple school districts, it was important for my white students, my Latinx students, my Asian students to see a black man teaching them Shakespeare, right?

That was important, and it was certainly important for my black students to see that as well.

So I think it actually helps everyone in education.

And when we think about mirrors and windows, that's how we make a system truly equitable.

And we need to actually place emphasis and priorities and funding on what it means to recruit teachers who are of color.

NAIMAH: Recruit them.

TIM'M: And keep them.

NAIMAH: Absolutely, and give them the incentive to stay.

TIM'M: Right, which I think that's also about the narratives that we tell ourselves about education.

So we can't consistently dog education as this horrible thing and then say we have a recruitment issue.

NAIMAH: Right.

TIM'M: What's the narrative?

How are we talking about education as a career option?

NAIMAH: Absolutely, yeah.

So, Chara, when we turn to the pre-K world, the preschool world, either volunteer pre-K or early childhood centers, the representation is quite different, right?

So the demographics shift a bit.

Can you talk a little bit about the, in general, the workforce demographic in the pre-K sector and what the implications are nationally when we continue to leave out the voices and experiences of that workforce, which has long been isolated from resources and often times forgotten?

CHARA: So in early childhood education, it is a workforce that is predominantly women, 96% women.

And there is a mix of educators who are in the public school classroom, but also in the community settings.

And we find that in the community settings, over 85% are single site centers or family based preschools that are owned and operated by African-American women, many who have been doing this for generations, who are committed educators, but they're also entrepreneurs, which means they have to be savvy business people to be able to run those businesses.

And what we're seeing is a national call to action and awareness of how difficult it is to be both an educator and an entrepreneur.

And how many times wages and salaries are unheard of for a home based business.

Wages are at far below national levels of a minimum $15 an hour, $25 an hour.

Retention wage parity for community providers and community settings, as well as public school classrooms, is essential.

What we see now is the inability of many to keep their centers open, to keep their home based businesses educating children in a very fragile system.

And it is important that those voices are elevated, that people understand the education that happens in home base and community is very much as valuable and high quality as what happens in a public school classroom.

And perhaps the only way that it's -- the reason it's looked at differently is because of an equity issue.

NAIMAH: Hmm, hmm.

CHARA: If those were not owned and operated by African-American women would this equity issue have risen before the pandemic occurred?

So every day, you know, our community has come together to really say, "How do we focus on those equity issues to make sure that those who are able to have access to higher education that allows them to be educators?

How do we make sure that happens?

How do we make sure people make a living wage as educators to continue to support our youngest learners?"

And our youngest learners have the best educator first, and that's their parents, that look like them, and how do we make sure that stays consistent when they get to a more formal education setting to have an equally committed educator that looks like them?

NAIMAH: Thank you.

And something you hit on is really all that you hit on a super extraordinary, but you talked about the narrative of early childhood center owners as entrepreneurs.

And when you think about that, the narrative that shapes that is far bigger than the narrow scope that we often place early childhood center owners in.

They're far more than caretakers, they're business owners.

So Chara talked a little bit about the pandemic and how it blew back some of the inequities that were long in existence.

Can you, Kathy, talk to us a little bit about what you have seen in public schools as children and educators and students experienced remote learning and experienced a real disruption in the normal business operation of schools?

What are some takeaways that we're seeing?

What are some things that we've learned from that experience that can propel us into the future?

KATHY: So, the pandemic definitely opened the door for us as educators to see and understand it a deeper way what our students were experiencing.

Especially in marginalized -- with marginalized students, we've seen -- we saw a lot of deficits in terms of their access to Wi-Fi, their access to laptops, and all of the infrastructure needed for 2 or 3 students in a home to all be doing classwork and homework, etc.

So there definitely was a lot of attention.

Now, there's been a lot of attention now drawn to what that actually looks like and what it really means for a family to have access to 21st century learning options, which includes the ability to utilize remote learning.

We had a lot of students who were able to excel during remote learning time, but we know that nothing takes the place of in-person instruction.

And so what does that mean for us as educators?

That means that we've got students now who have higher expectations about engagement, right?

We know that we have to shift from the sage on the stage kind of instruction, if we hadn't already, to something that really increases the level of engagement.

Things like project based learning, more -- making sure that more activities are focused on critical thinking and collaboration so that students can engage more deeply into the curriculum and help to close some of the gaps that came from the real issues that happen during the pandemic.

NAIMAH: So, now that gives lots -- I think it gives lots of hope for the future that we educators, students, children can experience that level of really inequity, right, in terms of infrastructure, but letting that paint the picture for what can be possible in the future in terms of education.

Chara, I want to go back to you because, you know, I think a lot about the preschool realm.

And it is the onset of learning, well, you've elevated for something -- us for something really important, which is that really parents are the first teachers, right?

But in an education setting, really, it starts at pre-K. Can you talk about how Pre-K Promise here in Cincinnati is really helping to advocate, and practically help early childhood education be more accessible to more children?

And what that looks like in the present and what you hope that looks like in the future?

CHARA: Well, thanks to the generous support of the voters to make an investment through a tax levy to say early childhood education is important to us.

That first five years of development is essential and very practically the Preschool Promise removes the barriers that many families had to equitable access to that preschool education.

So if families had trouble paying tuition, because it does cost to go to preschool, it's not free, they now have economic support that makes them have very little or no payment for their child to attend a full day preschool at three years old or four years old.

That's game changing because 80% of our parents said, "But for the Preschool Promise, we would not be able to send our child to preschool."

NAIMAH: 80%.

CHARA: 80%.

We also very practically help all of our community providers reach a high quality rating on Ohio Step Up to Quality system.

That means offering curriculum, professional development for teachers and instructors, playground equipment, developmentally appropriate tools, all of the things that you would walk into a setting to say this is a happy preschool learning space.

And it is also focused on teacher recruitment, retention and wage parity.

How do we help teachers have an equitable salary?

One of the ways to do that is to help a community provider reach high quality and be a savvy business person so that they are able to provide not only in that type of salary, but benefits, extras, all of the things that an employee looks for, an educator is entitled to those, too.

And it is a focus on those for our first five years, and we're entering our second five years, to say what is the difference that makes.

So all of those are things that we put in to say how do we make sure every child is ready for kindergarten?

That is our goal.

An Ohio State statewide assessment, kindergarten readiness assessment, children who attended a Preschool Promise high quality preschool with tuition assistance, 74.9% of them were ready for kindergarten.

They showed up ready to learn, and that is not only math, it's not only literacy, that's the social emotional learning and development, that's the large muscle skill development.

It is all the things that they need to put them on the path to not only a lifetime of academic success, but to really make them ready to thrive.

NAIMAH: Hmm.

So now we're going to take another look at a piece of the equity puzzle, and it's a big piece.

We're talking about resources.

The discrepancy between school funding and resources is something that students are very aware of, and they're wondering about it themselves.

Let's take a look.

SINCERE: A couple of days back, we was learning about schools that how much -- how richer they are.

So they learned more college courses than us and they learn more, you know, like programs than we do.

It doesn't make me feel right because most students, yeah, most of their parents have good, great jobs.

Most students can't afford to go to a school like that.

I would want to ask why does it matter to do that if every kid should get a great education?

CAMILLA: I know some schools in our district, just -- or just some schools in Ohio still don't have the ability to give all of their students a computer or internet access.

I would ask why everybody isn't able to have the same opportunity to the person to their left or to their right.

And if it has something to do with finances or just, you know, the community that they live in, why aren't we able to provide that to them?

EDWARD: But we don't get the delegate where the money goes, it's all up to the people in power, and we're not empowered.

So I feel like it's the government's responsibility to say, "Oh, wait, these kids are in need, let's give them the money."

But first they have to talk to us.

So in Cincinnati, we have magnet schools like Walnut Hills and SCPA, they get a whole bunch of funding.

But here we have Aiken, who has to have constant fund raisers to build up the funding for a trip that we're taking in March.

So I'm like, what happened in the building of these schools, in the creation of this system, where some schools get funding for everything while we have to pick up the scraps behind them?

NAIMAH: So, listening to these students reminds me of something important, and really, it's what the young man said: They just need to talk to us.

Students know exactly what they need, we just need to ask them.

So, Kathy, you know, we can't talk about equity in education without talking about funding.

And we currently have a system in place in terms of school resourcing where your zip code determines the quality of your education, right?

And we know that this is a system that has been trenchant, and it began with racist legal federal housing policies in the form of redlining.

And redlining has had decades of impact that keep, often times, communities of color, black and brown communities of color, isolated from the resources that they need.

And so can you give us some sense as to key action steps that educators, parents, school leaders, communities, caregivers can take to help shift this inequitable system and replace it with one that gives every student, every child the education they deserve?

KATHY: Well, we do know for sure that historically the communities where there's a higher tax base, they usually equal better education for the students that live in that community.

And so because of that reality, many of our schools in the inner city that represent marginalized communities tend to have less funding.

There are definitely federal programs like the title programs that provide additional funding for literacy and mathematics.

But we still see the gaps.

The gaps persist.

Right?

So what can we do as a community to ensure that those students in those spaces still have access to high quality education with high expectations?

Well, we'll have to galvanize all of our forces and pull them together and make sure that our community resources align.

So what does that mean?

University partners come into schools and help to support College Credit Plus offerings, that they help to ensure that the curriculum is available to students so that they can access that curriculum as early as students in other communities.

We have to make sure that we have funding for after school programming.

We have to make sure that we have programs like Preschool Promise to ensure that our students have access to the early education pieces that are going to ensure academic success as they move through our schools.

NAIMAH: Hmm.

Excellent.

Chara, did you have anything to build on to that from a preschool standpoint?

CHARA: Well, the Preschool Promise has taught us how innovation and funding can make all the difference.

High quality education needs to be accessible to every student, no matter where they live.

If we make funding decisions with the understanding that it has to be a partnership with the community and public education and we start with a lens of equity, it can make all the difference.

NAIMAH: Absolutely.

Tim'm, what insights do you have to share?

TIM'M: You know, listening to the students in the different schools that they come from, I was reminded having done preschool here, but then I moved out of state.

So when I came back, people would ask, "Well, where did you go to school?"

And because I didn't grow up in Cincinnati mostly, I was born here, I was confused by this.

I started rattling off colleges or where I went to grad school.

It's like, "No, where'd you go to high school?"

And I understood, I came to understand that they're asking that question for a specific reason: They're trying to locate, size me up, figure out, like if I went to one of the specialized schools or programs.

And so equity for me in some ways would mean that question would become obsolete, that we don't need to ask if you went to a certain school to determine whether or not you've got a great education.

NAIMAH: Yeah.

So it's assumed that everyone got a great education as opposed to assuming that they're haves and have nots.

TIM'M: Correct.

NAIMAH: That's a beautiful vision.

Tim'm, we're going to stick with you, right?

Our conversation centers on equity in education, and yet through the lens of the students and through what we can see happening in school systems, it sometimes feels as if educators are relegated by an inequitable school system to manage inequity, as opposed to propel us into a state of equity.

And so with that is an example that is super, super critical for us to examine, and that is police presence in schools, which then propels us into the very tragic school to prison pipeline.

Right?

And so if we can dream a little bit, what does it look like to have a school setting without a carceral police presence that is replaced with an emphasis on healing, an emphasis on restorative justice, if you will?

What does that look like and what kinds of amplified outcomes could we see for students with that change and that shift?

TIM'M: I think first of all, we have to in talking about restorative work in schools and talking about sort of the over disciplining of black children in schools.

And interestingly enough, a lot of people don't realize that it's not the South that actually represents the highest numbers of over disciplining of black students, it's actually the Midwest, right?

So there's something going on there.

I think there's an opportunity also to have discussions about trauma informed education.

Right?

So if the solution is to discipline and punish rather than to restore and heal, then we just sort of replicate the same cycles that many of our students are seeing in their communities.

Right?

And I think we have an opportunity to nurture a generation of young people that know how to help each other through those traumas, right?

That know how to take the stigma off of going to see a counselor or talking about issues that may be impeding the educational process.

NAIMAH: And often times, these disciplinary actions don't take into account the inequitable settings that create an environment where a child may not have the social emotional skills and learning and supports that they require to really thrive.

And so your view, your vision is a really powerful one that we should hold on to.

TIM'M: Thank you.

NAIMAH: So we could probably talk about adultification of children.

We could talk about disparate school discipline outcomes for the entire hour, because there's so much work to be done.

However, as we know, there are so many components about equity in education that we still have yet to cover, one of which is the role that educators and schools have in teaching students how to trace and interpret their own history, their own true history.

And with so much of that history being taught in schools, being whitewashed and sanitized, why wouldn't educators help students understand the long lineage of inequities that exist and persist to this day?

So, we've been talking to some students about the conversations they're having around race in the classroom.

Let's take a look.

ANIE: When I think of the topic of race coming up in class, I get sort of sweaty and nervous because it's always just sort of awkward.

KYLIE: Everybody feels like, "Oh, you're playing the race card," or, "Oh, you're interjecting race into something that it doesn't need to be involved with."

ANESA: You know, I feel like it's talked about a little bit, but I feel like the harsh realities aren't discussed because it makes people uncomfortable sometimes.

CIERRA: In high school we didn't really talk much about race.

It was deemed as inappropriate.

KEYLAN: So every time we learn about black history, there's always a white teacher who talks about it.

And I look at them and I'm thinking like, I don't know if they're nervous to talk about it or what, but they don't really, they don't hit it as hard as I think they want to, because they don't -- they think they might slip something.

KYLIE: I would say that our history that we learn is whitewashed.

And it's not just a black versus white thing, it's also having to do with every minority group that we're just not learning about enough.

BRIELLE: I definitely would have benefited more if I learned more black history at school.

I feel like it was a little unnecessary that I had to feel I had to go outside of school to feel empowered by my history and by people that are my own race.

ISHA: Overall, while learning history, I don't think there's a lot of people like me in there, it's mostly about other people's history.

Which I do love learning about history, but I just wish that we were also part of the history.

CIERRA: And as I grew up and I started learning more about my history, the history of others, I definitely felt insecure and felt deprived of who I am.

JOYEUSE: We need students to understand that where we came from, there's a story behind it.

But how will they understand it if the school actually never teach anything about it?

ANIE: The same historical figures that are repeated, same incidents we learn about every year, which are important, don't get me wrong, but I feel like sometimes we lose the application part of it.

So we know these facts, but what does that mean for us today?

How can we be using that information to establish a better future?

How far is too far when it comes to certain topics, like what are the boundaries that we're making and why are we making those boundaries?

NAIMAH: Listening to students just now is, you know, it's heartening because once again, we're hearing from students that education is far more than just banking information.

So Tim'm, as we think about the liberatory aspects of education, right, that education is so powerful a tool that it can be used to liberate.

It can also be used to oppress, you know, Paulo Freire talks about this in his book Pedagogy of the Oppressed.

Can you talk a little bit about, from your perspective, what is -- what are some ways that educators and caregivers can unleash those liberatory powers and aspects of education?

TIM'M: You know, I talked earlier about empowerment being the purpose of education.

And so I think it's really about a pedagogical commitment to answering the for what question?

What am I learning this for, right?

Because if we don't help our students see the connection between the facts that they're learning and the ways that they might empower their lives from that, then often times they will sense betrayal.

Like why didn't I learn that or why didn't I learn what that was for?

A case in point or an example is a discussion with some elementary school students about intersectionality.

And we were talking about Bayard Rustin and his role in the Civil Rights March on Washington.

They were just like, "Oh yeah, I get that."

But a parent was like, "I think that's too advanced for them."

So I think we sometimes undermine our students' intelligence, their critical thinking, their ability to make these connections.

So what would it mean to bravely step in to saying, "Let's push our students, let's open up the world to them so that they can learn and make the connections?"

NAIMAH: Absolutely.

Absolutely.

You know, Kathy, we talk a lot about the system of funding, but there's another system that often goes unnoticed and that's the system of pedagogy, right?

And it has huge implications in the entire education sector.

Oftentimes, the instructional standards and content, you know, the outcomes, instructional practice, the books and materials that support the teaching and learning inside of the classroom, and frankly, the inequitable use and misguided uses of assessments and measurements.

Can you speak to what education scholars refer to as culturally responsive or culturally sustaining pedagogy, and share a little bit about what that is and how it is helping to reshape what teachers teach in the classroom and how that reshaping benefits black and brown children?

KATHY: Well, what we know about education for all learners is that it is more deeply engaging, more deeply understood, and more deeply retained when you're actually part of the conversation, when you actually see yourself reflected in the literature that the teachers choose to teach the different standards with, when you're actually allowed to bring in your own cultures into the conversation, even when you're talking about mathematics and social studies.

So it's critically important that all educators really allow the students in the classroom to be a part of the conversation.

So again, that that engagement is deepened and that it becomes more meaningful for those learners.

One of the key things educators also must do as this -- as we talk about culturally relevant practices, is they have to make sure that they don't love our students to the bottom.

And what I mean by that is often times educators that work with students in marginalized communities often love their students.

They want the best for their students.

And sometimes they do not set the expectations that they would in other communities for those students at the level that is grade level appropriate and that is aligned to standards.

So they spend a lot of time teaching them meaningful things, but not actually pushing the rigor and setting the expectation for what the academics should look like for that student and giving them an opportunity to really engage at a deeper level.

NAIMAH: Mm-hmm.

So, this brings us to the part of the conversation that it may evoke some feelings for some people, but we're going to go there because we must.

Can we talk about critical race theory for a hot second?

Right?

So, it's become in today's discourse a rallying cry, often for conservative, conservative pundits and or conservative advocates who say, "Look, talking about race period is divisive."

And of course, we know, you know, if we're talking about history the last time I checked, and you know, conflating history with divisiveness isn't productive because it's history, right?

And we must face it head on.

But let's talk about what critical race theory really is.

And then on top of that, well just what does today's discourse around critical race theory get wrong?

And how has it helped the world in general interpret and study and apply a critical lens to an issue that has kept our nation in its grips for hundreds of years?

Tim'm?

TIM'M: Yeah, I think number one, a lot of people don't understand what critical race theory is, right?

It's a legal framework that's mostly taught in law schools.

And yet at the same time, I think it has some applicability to all students, right?

Understanding how, from a jurisprudence perspective inequity and equity is defined, even talking about black people being considered 3/5 a human, right?

All of those things that children learn through school, but not connecting them to our current day equity.

And so one of the questions I ask is why wouldn't we have critical discussions about history and race for all students?

Right?

I think the other part of it is that we've made the conversation about critical race theory kind of like a cancel culture.

We want to cancel the discussion about race and these uncomfortable conversations, and I think we have to be careful not to -- It's not cancelation.

It's about accountability, right?

Oftentimes, what people call cancel culture is about a culture of accountability.

And it's saying we want to be accountable to the students for showing them and teaching them the actual history of what happened, so that they can solve these problems, so that they can become agents in making our world a better place.

NAIMAH: Absolutely.

Yeah.

Chara, what additional perspective do you have on this topic?

CHARA: Use the lessons that we've learned in preschool.

You know, everything in preschool that's developmentally appropriate brings something from the outside into the classroom.

You learn about science because you go outside and you bring a leaf in.

You learn about math because you count the acorns.

So, critical race theory and teaching of history shouldn't be any different.

Events that happen on the outside should come into the classroom in a way that is educationally and developmentally appropriate.

NAIMAH: Absolutely.

Kathy?

KATHY: I would just piggyback on those responses and share that students come into the classroom very much keenly aware of what is happening in society.

They understand that in a lot of their neighborhoods they're experiencing food deserts.

They know firsthand that they have a lot of environmental pollutants in many of the areas that they live in.

So, for them to be able to explore that inside of the classroom, aligning it to some of the historical systems that have, you know, with the red lining and the different systems that have been at play for many, many years just empowers them to move forward and make change in their neighborhoods and in their communities.

NAIMAH: And maybe at some point the classrooms become places of learning, and they also become the onset of, you know, stewards of social justice, you know, students and children who can take this knowledge and make better decisions.

Tim'm?

TIM'M: I think there's another risk there as well, and that is because students are experiencing our world and all the tensions.

We had a pandemic, we had a very contentious election.

January 6th happened.

When you are a teacher that does not bring that into a classroom, you lose credibility, right?

You lose the ability to connect with the students, because like, "I know what's happening here.

It's never discussed.

Should I trust this person with my learning?"

And so I think that what made me most powerful as a teacher was the ability that, as you say, bring the stuff in.

And then I felt that and then I could teach them about other things because I had credibility.

NAIMAH: Absolutely.

Very important, important point.

CHARA: Education doesn't teach you what to think; it teaches you how to think.

NAIMAH: Absolutely, yeah.

We've been talking about the larger meaning and as we've heard from students themselves, they've articulated to us their own interpretation of what they hope their educational experience yields for them.

And that is more than just thanking.

It's like, "Well, what do I do with this?

How can I make the world better?"

So, we come to our final segment and it's a joyous one.

In fact, we'll be talking about joy.

I'm really inspired by the work of Dr. Goldie Muhammad.

She's a linguistic scholar and scholar who has brought to life a really, really helpful framework.

It's what she calls our historically responsive pedagogy.

And the framework that she uses is to help us understand how black literary societies after reconstruction came together in these self-contained units and they learned to read together, they learned about the world together with really, really incredible goals.

One goal was, of course, skill building, learning how to read, right?

Another important component of that was intellectualism, learning about people, place, and things.

Another component is that of criticality.

Yes, I know the people, places, and things.

I understand the causal links throughout history.

And now what?

What do I do with that to liberate myself?

What do I do with that to propel the world into a better place?

And the last component of her framework is that of joy.

And I think it's super important because what it brings to light is the multidimensional nature of education.

Yes, it's a serious pursuit.

And for children of color in particular, what does it look like to have an education experience, an educational experience that not just brings about but encourages racial and cultural joy?

What might that look like in the classroom?

CHARA: Celebrating every child for who and how they show up every day.

If you're having a good day, we celebrate you.

If you're having a bad day, we celebrate you.

If something is different happening at home that's interfering with your learning, however you show up, we celebrate that as a class, as a group, as a team, and as a community.

You see that in preschool every day.

And that's what we call social emotional learning.

That is the accompaniment to that academics.

So again, take the lessons we learned in preschool, apply them wide, because nothing is more joyous than a preschoolers face that lights up when they walk in that classroom.

NAIMAH: Absolutely.

What beautiful imagery.

Kathy?

KATHY: The first word that came to mind was choice.

We have traditional assessments that measure student achievement and growth.

But many of our students thrive when they're allowed to demonstrate mastery in a different way, when they have choice, when they're allowed to do build portfolios of their work, when they're allowed to produce songs or produce plays, or put together poetry that really demonstrate the level and the depth of their learning.

And it brings them a lot of joy because they're able to exercise their true gift in a way that traditionally we have not given them room for.

So, I really believe that choice in assessments and how students demonstrate that mastery can lead to a lot of joy for our young people in the classroom.

NAIMAH: Oh, I just love the idea of education being, you know, discovering oneself through what you're really good at and finding the joy and celebration in that.

Tim'm, what about you?

TIM'M: I talk about bringing or finding, locating the joy in the rigor and the rigor in the joy.

And I loved what you said earlier about culture responsive pedagogy.

Some people have framed it as an enemy to rigor.

Right?

That by learning all of these cultural things we're not being rigorous.

When in fact, a lot of the research shows that, like culture responsive pedagogy is about rigor.

You think about those classes that you went to that you were excited to go to, those are the classes you did better in.

You responded to the teacher with a lot more.

You know, you stayed a little bit later because you had another question.

So, that face lighting up that we recognize in preschool, how do we move that forward, right, so that we're still continuing to tap into that very same energy that kids have when they show up in a preschool classroom, when they're showing up to study calculus or to study American or U.S. history?

So I think it's really a commitment to that through line.

And I think joy is that through line.

NAIMAH: This is absolutely profound aspect of education, right?

And on that note, I think to close this out, I'd love to know what is giving you an abiding, enduring hope as you consider where we are, current state in our education sector and future state?

What's giving you hope?

Chara?

CHARA: It's that our families continue to engage and come to preschool, that educators look for innovative ways to connect with families and make sure that that education continues.

And to see the resilience, the consistency, the willingness to say we're going to do everything possible to make sure that our children receive that education.

NAIMAH: Beautiful.

Tim'm?

TIM'M: Yeah, I think for me, it's the students that we've heard from throughout this series.

You know, I would love for them to all become educators.

And I think my motivation for becoming an educator myself was rooted in what I didn't see and experience.

And so if that's a nudge to any of them that are here to look into going into teaching and education, it's been such a fulfilling journey for me and you can do so much with that.

And I think that's how we have to frame what it means to be an educator.

NAIMAH: Absolutely.

Kathy?

KATHY: I would just add that like Tim'm said, the student voice piece, it is just absolutely huge.

Students really recognizing that they have power and that they can come together and that they can add their voice to the conversation about the types of things, the courses that they're offered in school, the ways that they are taught, including their culture as part of the fabric of what they learn and what they're able to do inside of school.

It's just really an exciting time to see that piece being elevated.

NAIMAH: So we've heard from our panelists how education can play a role to evoke joy, especially in the classroom.

It's only fitting as we end today to center student voices and hear what they have to say about how joy shows up for them in the classroom and along their educational journeys.

SIRE: Definitely the field trips.

JOYEUSE: To me joy looks like not stressing a lot, not worrying about what am I going to get on the test.

It just looks like having fun with my friends in general.

BRIELLE: I definitely get joy from simply smiling and laughing with my friends and community members.

PASSION: Winning all my soccer games and going on to A Honor Roll.

EDWARD: Okay, I'm a band geek, like all I do is music.

So my joy is when I get to be a part of the band, it's like a community.

CAMILLA: I find joy at school when we're basically involving ourselves in like real world conversations.

TERI'ANA: I love school so much.

I love talking to my teachers and just being around them.

And I love math class.

BELLA: Talking to teachers, that's something that makes me really happy when they're super excited to answer my questions.

SINCERE: The way that they teach us, the students think that it's hard, but they make it kind of fun.

KYLIE: I feel like a joy to me at school is being able to be my full and complete self with no hindrance or no fear of being judged.

ANAIS: I get joy from going to my clubs after school.

CARINE: Going on the soccer field and doing what I do best.

KEYLAN: Actually, I'm an athlete, so sports, definitely sports.

ETERNITI: When the whole student body actually relates to each other on something, like the football games or in class when we're doing projects.

TAYLOR: This school year, my biggest joy is going with the band to either Hawaii or Orlando, Florida, and kind of putting Aiken on the map.

ANIE: Seeing my friends every day, getting to talk to my teachers have a relationship with my teachers.

CIERRA: This year, I look forward to self-development.

ANESA: I look forward to applying to colleges and seeing if they accept me.

CAMILLA: I hope to see more change.

I want to see the action.

I want to see initiative to those goals and when I come back, I want to see some sort of shift in the atmosphere.

NAIMAH: There is nothing more fulfilling than to hear young people talk about what makes them happy and what brings them joy.

Am I right?

It just really brightens the spirit.

It really warms the heart.

And it just, I don't know, it makes me want to make sure that that always is the case for every student.

So, I want to thank each of you for being here.

This has been such an important, but enlightening conversation.

And Kathy Wright, Chara Fisher Jackson, and Tim'm West, you bring extraordinary insights to this space, and so it's been an absolute pleasure.

Thank you.

TIM'M: Thank you.

CHARA: Thank you.

KATHY: Thank you.

NAIMAH: Equity in education, we just dove into a big topic, hearing big ideas and insights from the most important voices: students.

We learned that we needn't look too far to see the impacts of structural racism and inequity on black and brown children in America's education system, from an unsupported black teacher workforce to unjust school funding to misguided uses of assessments.

Such structural inequities have been a hallmark of our education system since its inception.

We also heard from our panelists about how these very systems that have been put in place can also be dismantled.

Really importantly, we learned that education is far more important for its ability to transform and liberate.

It's far more than just skill building and banking information.

We heard from students just today that education is a tool that children and students use to build a knowledge of the world around them, to express their ideas, to develop a critical lens to navigate oppressive systems and become stewards of social justice to make a better world.

We also got to hear about how joy shows up for students and how educators can help foster joy in the rigor of education, and rigor in the joy, as Tim'm West shared with us earlier.

Ultimately, equity in education is making sure students and educators have what they need, as education is a pathway to freedom for all of humanity.

If you'd like to learn more about the topics discussed today, please visit cetconnect.org/UrbanConsulate for a reading list.

Before we go tonight, we want to give a huge thank you to the University of Cincinnati and several other groups for their help: Cincinnati Public Schools, Aikin New Tech High School, Chase Elementary, and WordPlay.

Thanks also go to WVXU's Democracy and Me Initiative and their student interns.

Also, we send our gratitude to Young Activists Coalition, Fairfield High School, and the group Fairfield for Change.

Keep up the good work; so many amazing young minds.

For news and event info on Urban Consulate, head to UrbanConsulate.com/Cincinnati.

We hold events the second Monday of each month, so sign up and connect with your neighbors around issues facing our community.

Until next time, for CET and Urban Consulate Cincinnati, I'm Naimah Bilal.

Good night.

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