♪ [This Week in South Carolina music] ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Welcome to This Week in South Carolina I'm Gavin Jackson for one 150 years the US Army Corps of Engineers has been serving South Carolina with modern engineering feats while playing a unique role in the growth and prosperity of the state.

Joining us to discuss the role of the Corps is Lisa Metheny, Head Civilian and Brian Williams Civil Works Chief.

Thanks for joining me, guys.

For our viewers, I want to give a little background about what both of y'all do.

Lisa, I want to start with you.

You're Deputy District Engineer of Programs and Project Management in the Charleston District.

Tell us what that entails and your background on that.

>> Yeah.

Happy to do that.

Thank you so much for having us on the show.

My title is a long, fancy way of saying I'm the senior civilian here for the district.

So, I am in charge of the 230 employees we have and about the 350 million dollar a year that we work here.

I started with the Corps of Engineers in June 1st of 1993 in the Huntington District in West Virginia as an economist and was in that district for 6 years, primarily focused on flood damage reduction projects and emergency management response.

I've been transferred to a job down here and was a planner and then a project manager and then chief of the programs and worked my way up to this job.

So, I've been with the Corps a long time and I have even worked in our Europe District.

So I've touched a lot of things that the Corps does, but not everything that the Corps does.

>> Brian kind of fill me in, too.

You're acting chief of military construction.

How is that different than maybe being the top civilian engineer like we're talking to about Lisa.

>> Yeah.

Again, thanks Gavin for having me.

I am normally the chief of our civil works program in Charleston District and I work directly for Lisa.

I had an opportunity to kind of have a developmental assignment and get some different experience in our military program.

So, that's dealing with and supporting our military customers like Fort Jackson up in Columbia in military construction.

So, my 18 years in the Corps have been a fantastic experience, getting to do lots of different things.

I started as a coastal engineer, which is really a very small subset of civil engineering.

And just had opportunity after opportunity.

And it has brought me here.

So, it's great to be here and in share our story with you today.

<Gavin> Brian, I want to stick with you and tell me more about the agency.

We'll get to the details about the anniversary but just a little about what the US Army Corps of Engineers actually does.

I don't think a lot of people know.

They hear it.

They probably see some projects that affect them.

What is the role that this agency serves?

<Brian> So the Corps is the nation's water resource engineers.

We have that mission.

We call it our civil works mission.

So, within the state of South Carolina if there are water resources related challenges and they meet our authorities then we absolutely can get involved.

When you see that around the state with things like Myrtle Beach, Folly Beach, Charleston Harbor, of course, the Charleston Peninsula study that we're under way with the city of Charleston, right now.

But we also have the military mission and so we do support like I said.

Folks like Fort Jackson and military construction and then also our interagency and international support to other federal agencies.

I know Lisa could talk about that, as well.

But those are really along with regulatory, our main focuses and what our agency is all about.

<Gavin> And Lisa, we're talking about obviously the 150th anniversary of the Charleston District office.

I know the history goes back further than that.

So, maybe give us a little bit of that history and also tell us the need.

Elaborate more about what Brian was saying the need for the Army Corps and maybe what's with those initial projects way back then, where I know we're still talking about the Charleston harbor all these years later, still.

[both giggle] >> Yes, so the Corps actually are the first projects we did in South Carolina where it was actually around 1821 when we were - folks were sent down here to survey the area and survey the waterways and do some work looking at of all things erosion along the coast and really starting to survey for coastal defenses.

With the work that was done here and the importance of the strategic point of the harbor here itself, we actually established an office here in 1871.

So, we like to joke and say that we dated Charleston for 50 years before we settled in permanently.

And some of that original work was surveying for coastal fortifications that ultimately became Fort Sumter.

We did construct Fort Sumter and we enjoy a great partnership with the park service who operates that now.

And then probably what we're most known for is the construction of the jetties.

In which it allowed a stable entrance channel into the harbor and then also for clearing the harbor of debris and sunken vessels immediately following the Civil War.

I'd like to brag on some of those original engineers because we built the jetties in the 1870s.

And the first time we had to do any kind of fix to them was actually just a couple years ago.

and so when you think about the amount of time that they've been out there and all the things they've withstood in all of the hurricanes and storms, they did a very good job of put it putting those in place.

Throughout time, the Corps of Engineers as an enterprise has been called upon to do a variety of things.

We had the Rivers and Harbors Act.

starting in the early 1800s, which was sort of the foundation of being the water resource engineers.

But we built Fort Jackson, which at the time we built it in World War I was called Camp Jackson and we built a variety of military installations across the state, We built Forts Moultrie and like I said earlier, Fort Sumter.

So, pretty much what the nation and the state have called on us to do, we've brought our engineering expertise and our other scientific expertise to bear on that.

Now, we also support emergency response and have for a very long time.

We work very well with South Carolina Emergency Management Division and then our federal partners at FEMA.

So, we're very proud of the work that we do all across South Carolina and the nation.

<Gavin> Lisa, just to stick with you for a moment longer.

We were talking some things haven't changed.

You were talking about beach erosion.

We were talking about the Charleston harbor, too.

Give us a update about the Charleston Harbor deepening project, how that's been going and all the challenges that entails.

>> Oh!

Happy to do that.

So the original depth of the harbor was right around 12 feet.

So, we've deepened the harbor five times.

And this most recent one, being to 52 feet.

And that deepening has been required over the years as ships have gotten larger as the world has become more connected and how goods are transferred and what we're really trying to do is reduce those transportation inefficiencies, so that ships can call anytime, any tide and they can be fully loaded with all the containers that they can hold and anybody who saw the Brazil when she was here, a few months ago, you can see exactly how many containers that is.

So, we are we are under way with the deepening.

We, in fact have about 10 dredges out there actively working in various areas of the harbor.

The project will be completed next year, late summer early fall of the 2022 and that's for the entire harbor going all the way up to the North Charleston terminal.

The study itself not only did we have to look at it's not as simple as just going out and scooping up some mud and making it deeper.

We had to look at what environmental impacts there would be to not just the fish that swim around there but the things that live that actually live in that mud.

And we also had to make sure that we were not impacting water quality because the harbor is where a lot of us recreate.

It's water the industry uses and so we wanted to make sure we weren't going to negatively impact that.

So, you've got to bring sort of that economic need and the engineering capability and kind of interweave that with environmental protection to give us that half a billion dollar project that we have today.

So, it's very exciting.

<Gavin> A lot of things going down on the ports, as well.

I want to move quickly inland, Brian and talk about military construction because I think this is something.

I think people think coastal, they think waterways, but I want to talk to you about Fort Jackson and some other missions y'all support.

Give me an idea about that because we know Fort Jackson is like one of the largest bases in the country for training the Army soldiers.

Can you give me an idea about what kind of projects go on up here?

I think back to during the 2015 flood when there was a big dam breach.

I mean, aren't those the kind of projects you support, as well?

>> Yeah Gavin.

So you're right on it.

Fort Jackson trains almost 45 thousand basic trainees every year and about 12 thousand additional trainees that receive some kind of advanced training.

So, it's a huge training center for the Army.

50 percent or more of all the soldiers that are entering the Army go through Fort Jackson.

60% of all women who joined the Army, go through Fort Jackson.

So, it's a huge mission and it's one we're very proud of, one that we absolutely - it's key to supporting our military.

And so we build anything from barracks to training facilities, dining halls and then child development centers.

Because we're not only serving those trainees and the folks that are permanently stationed at Jackson but we're also serving their families and so dependents and children that are there, we're providing those buildings that educate them.

<Gavin> What about other military installations around the state?

Do they call upon y'all for work on that too?

How does that work out?

>> We do some work also with the Joint Base Charleston.

So, right here in our backyard.

We're building a visitors' quarters up there, about a 62 million dollar project there for vertical construction, but it's not only big projects.

It's the little things that help deliver the mission for our military folks, make sure that they're ready to serve the nation.

So, its maintenance.

It's making sure they have all the things that they need to do their jobs and that's what we do.

>> Before we get back talking about coastal impacts and I want to talk a bit about how we're being affected by climate change, Brian, I want to stick with you and ask about the permitting process, another thing that y'all play major role in when we see road expansion projects, we see bridges.

We talk a lot about economic environmental impact studies.

Give me an idea about how that process works, the need for that process.

A lot of people seem to belabor that it's somewhat cumbersome but it obviously must serve a purpose, if you guys are doing it, I hope.

>> It absolutely does.

We're charged with ensuring that there's no net loss of wetlands.

So we have regulatory authority over those wetlands and it being South Carolina, particularly the Low Country, you can't throw a rock and not hit something wet.

So, yeah, anything from an individual who maybe wants to build a dock or fill in something eerie on their property to those really large economic impact projects like the Boeings, Volvos, those folks, BMW Haile Gold Mine.

All of those things we're looking to balance that need between the economics so the economic engine that does drive South Carolina, but also the environment.

So our regulators, they have a very tough job in trying to make sure that those things are done efficiently and effectively and then keep in mind that balance between the economics and then also the environment.

<Gavin> Lisa, so we've had a good update about some current projects and all the things that y'all do for the Army Corps of Engineers out of the Charleston district.

Give me an idea about the future and specifically when we talk about climate change driving sea level rises and how that affects the Charleston peninsula.

It's my understanding, you have a study under way.

You're getting public feedback on this study about some ways to help with the peninsula and the flooding that happens down there so often.

Give us an update about what's going on and what y'all are trying to accomplish here.

>> Yes.

We do have a current feasibility study going on, on the peninsula.

We call it the Charleston Peninsula Study.

So, kind of right on the nose there, but we were directed by Congress to look at protecting the peninsula from storm surge.

And storm surge only is all that we're authorized to look at in this study.

So, this would be one piece of a larger issue regarding climate change and flooding in the peninsula in the - and the greater Charleston area that the city's kind of working on and so we're a piece of that.

We have just kicked off on the 23rd of March a public input for the scoping of our environmental impact statement.

We had gone out with a draft report where we kind of looked at here's a couple ways we think that we can provide protection from that storm surge and based on that initial public and agency feedback, we determined we're really going to need to do an EIS and really look at what some of those environmental impacts are and so we started that process.

The plan is we would be complete with the EIS in about a year and would then look on finishing up the study with whatever those recommendations would be, shortly there after.

After that is done, should the study or should the project be authorized, then we would move into design and then later into construction.

So, it's not anything we're going to be constructing immediately but we are really are looking at what is the best way to provide protection from that storm surge and initial indications are that it's going to work require some type of flood wall around a large part of the peninsula.

<Gavin> I've been down there when I've seen that water come over that right down there on the battery and it is worse.

Those houses always seem to flood when the waters obviously rise that high.

So, it's sounds like a 1.4 billion dollar sea wall and then some other mitigating factors there.

And that's around the entire, not just the Battery, but the entire peninsula itself.

<Lisa> Yeah.

That's correct and that's an early estimate again based on the available data we have.

We are continuing to do some engineering modeling and some coastal modeling that'll help us refine that.

And really looking at what the alignment for that would be and those sorts of things, we would firm that up more in the design phase.

But, yes currently we're looking at a project that would be a little over a billion dollars.

But when you look at the value of the structures and the infrastructure on the peninsula that, that would protect, we're looking at far more value of what's protected than what the cost would be.

<Gavin> And that's majority funded from the federal government and then partnership with local.

<Lisa> Yes.

The study actually was a 100% federally funded through the BBA 18 supplemental funding appropriation from Congress.

The design phase would be cost shared with the city of Charleston, as would the construction.

So, of that 1.4 million, 4 billion dollars, assuming that would be the cost, they would have to provide about 35% of that cost.

<Gavin> And Brian, when we look forward to being proactive and when we look at these storms that continue threatening our state, we just came off the most active hurricane season on record.

Luckily, we were spared.

We didn't get hit.

It gave us a break from the past 5 years of hurricanes that have affected our state.

I'm just wondering what kind of measures does the Corps take when you're look at projects like this.

Do you incorporate climate change possibilities into designs and infrastructure that's going to last 50 plus years?

>> Yeah.

Absolutely we do because we do have that 50 year outlook from a federal participation standpoint.

So, we do have to factor in things like sea level rise and others.

That's where the Corps in not just the Charleston district.

When Lisa said it's 200 and some odd folks here in the Charleston District.

But really the Corps is 30 thousand plus and there's great technical expertise within the Corps.

And so we have that entire kind of team behind us and we're able to draw on those experts.

So it's not only us here in the Charleston District but it's Corps wide and looking forward, you're right, hugely active storm season this past year.

We would absolutely encourage all of your listeners and everyone within the state to be cognizant of the impacts the hurricanes can have.

And in our experience, responding to hurricanes and certainly when that coastal erosion happens from hurricanes on our projects like Myrtle Beach and Folly Beach.

We've been involved in going out and doing rehabilitation of those projects.

We've also done rehabilitation of some of our, what we used to call flood control channels.

Things that have been impacted that are supposed to be carrying that water away from our infrastructure that we care about, right.

And so that keeps us busy, but also when Highway 501 was threatened a few years ago the Corps and the National Guard and all of our partners got together to figure out - Okay.

How do we keep that open and able to continue to do its job?

So, our response is varied depending on how the state needs us and then what authorities we have from Congress in the wake of the storm.

>> Yeah.

I remember that storm.

Was that Florence when everything was really - it was getting really dicey down there on the coast with the waters coming up and stuff like that.

Everything was closed off, one way traffic in certain areas.

Something to see.

At least that kind of goes to my point here about rapid response from the Corps when we do have a hurricane threatening our coast, when we do have immediate needs.

How's that changed for the Corps in terms of how they respond and then also if you can follow up on that coastal erosion.

and the purpose that serves and if it's becoming more difficult these days.

>> So, yes happy to explain that a little more.

Throughout time, the Corps has responded to natural disasters, not just hurricanes, but that's the one we're most familiar with here in South Carolina.

And we have two mechanisms to do that: One, we have our own authorities under public law 8499 that allow us to do things like what we did at Highway 501 where we're up there and we're putting in Hesco barriers and we're putting in the sand bags and we're doing certain flood control and coastal emergency work like that.

But then under the Stafford Act, a large part of what we do is we are FEMA's engineer and so we support them with whatever tasks that they give us whether that's temporary housing, temporary roofing, temporary power any of those things.

And it used to be we would go out and do those things that when I first started with the Corps.

You had the clipboard and the pencil and you would go out and actually sketch out what impacts were and things like that.

That's evolved over time with more information being available and everything more digitized now.

We're able to be even more responsive and be able to do planning even better for evacuation zones and things like that.

Sea level rise and more active storms as you said have really made coastal erosion a bigger deal and with South Carolina having a lot of people moving here every day there is more pressure on the coast, but the ocean hasn't changed a whole lot.

So the waves come and the storms come and the beach is going to behave the way mother nature wants it to.

What we what we try to do is, we try to work with Mother Nature to provide a little bit of protection, a lot of people think that when we put sand on the beach, what a waste, because the sand goes away and you have to do it again but as I like to point out to people, if the storm eats the sand it's not eating your house.

So, the sand is doing exactly what we want it to do.

<Gavin> Is that still sustainable for us to be doing that?

Are we running out of that sand?

You hear about that in some places.

Wondering what it's like on our coasts.

>> It is something that we as the Corps are having to deal with on both coasts.

There are some areas where the sand is not replenishing at a rate that it used to.

We have for our Myrtle Beach project and our Folly Beach project.

We do have a variety of sand sources, identified that we can use but as storms become more frequent, if that sands not able to replenish there, then we may have to look at going to something that's a lot more costly.

I know people think we're throwing money away with the sand but the cost of doing the sand replenishment is still cheaper than doing something like building really, really large sea walls or things like that.

So, it's something that we as a society are going to have to think about definitely over the next 25 years or so.

We all like to live on the coast but sometimes the coast might need a little more room than we've traditionally given it.

>> Well, we've look back on 150 years, I'm guessing we're going to be around for another 150 years, as long as you guys keep going, right.

I mean you've - >> That's our plan.

<Gavin> Yup.

- Go ahead, Lisa.

>> I was going to say, the Corps of Engineers is only two days younger than the US Army and so going all the way back to 1776, we've been here serving the nation.

Now, here in this particular office, in this particular city we've been here for 150 years.

I think we definitely have at least another 150 left in us.

And we're here - we're here to serve the state and serve the nation and however we're called upon I am very confident in our employees that they will bring the best science and the best problem solving abilities and we'll help serve in whatever manner we're called to do.

<Gavin> And as we know there's no shortage of projects going forward.

So, I want to thank you guys for your service and look forward to what's on tap in the future.

Thanks to Lisa Metheny and Brian Williams with the US Army Corps of Engineers, Charleston District and happy 150th <Lisa and Brian> Thanks Gavin.

>> To stay up to date with the latest news throughout the week, check out the South Carolina Lede, it's a podcast that I host twice a week and can be found on SouthCarolinaPublicRadio.org or wherever you find podcasts for South Carolina ETV, I'm Gavin Jackson Be well, South Carolina.

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