>> JUST AHEAD ON BLACK ISSUES FORUM, THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE US BLACK CHAMBERS RON BUSBY JOINS TO TALK ABOUT THE NEED FOR FEDERAL SUPPORT FOR BLACK-OWNED BUSINESSES.

THEN OUR PANEL WEIGHS IN ON THE THREAT OF THE DELTA VARIANT.

STAY WITH US.

♪ WELCOME TO BLACK ISSUES FOR MY DEBORAH HOLT-NOEL.

THERE IS NO QUESTION TODAY'S BUSINESS LANDSCAPE IS ABSENT MANY OF THE BLACK OWNED BUSINESSES THAT WERE THRIVING JUST A YEAR AGO.

IN FACT, BECAUSE MANY OF THEM SHUT DOWN FOR GOOD DUE TO COVID THERE'S BEEN A 41% DROP IN BLACK BUSINESS ACTIVITY.

I'D LIKE TO WELCOME RON BUSBY, SENIOR, A FORMER SMALL BUSINESS OWNER AND CORPORATE EXECUTIVE NOW PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE U.S. BLACK CHAMBERS INC. MISTER BUSBEE THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON BLACK ISSUES FORUM.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US THIS MORNING.

>> ABSOLUTELY CAN YOU JUST SHARE AS A BACKGROUND, WHAT WAS AT THE HEART OF SO MANY BLACK BUSINESSES HAVING TO SHUT DOWN EVEN IN VIEW OF THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN?

>> WELL AS YOU STATED DURING THE MONTHS OF FEBRUARY 2020 THROUGH APRIL OF 2020 WE LOST 41% OF BLACK OWNED BUSINESSES REPRESENTING ABOUT 442,000 BUSINESSES CLOSED DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME.

IT WAS REALLY A TRIFECTAL IMPACT OF THREE-LEGGED STOOL IF YOU'D SAY THE FIRST LEG BEING THE VIRUS ITSELF AND SO MANY PEOPLE FROM OUR COMMUNITIES WERE CALLED ESSENTIAL WORKERS HAVING TO GO AND BECAUSE OF OUR LIVING CONDITIONS, BECAUSE OF WHERE WE LIVE IN OUR COMMUNITIES, BECAUSE OF THE CONDITIONS, MANY AFRICAN AMERICANS WERE FORCED TO GO TO WORK AND MANY OF US DIED.

THE SECOND LEG OF THAT STOOL WAS THE STIMULUS PACKAGE ITSELF, OR THE LACK THEREOF, AND THE MAJORITY OF BLACK OWNED BUSINESSES, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS A 349 BILLION DOLLAR STIMULUS PACKAGE, IT WAS ANNOUNCED ON A FRIDAY AND BY THAT SATURDAY AFTERNOON 250 BILLION OF THOSE DOLLARS HAVE ALREADY BEEN AWARDED TO 50 PUBLICLY WHITE TRADED FIRMS WITHOUT HAVING EVER A CONVERSATION ABOUT DID YOU LOSE REVENUE, DID YOU HAVE TO LOSE PEOPLE, DID YOU HAVE TO LAY OFF, NO CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHAT THE IMPACT WAS WHICH LEFT ALL OF THE REST OF AMERICA'S BUSINESSES BIDING FOR THAT LAST FEW DOLLARS THAT WERE LEFT.

MANY BLACK BUSINESSES LEFT OUT OF THE EQUATION, ACTUALLY 76% OF BLACK FIRMS SAY THEY GOT NO FUNDING AT ALL OR FAR LESS THAN WHAT THEY NEEDED.

>> SO WAS IT A MATTER OF NOT GETTING TO THE TABLE QUICKLY ENOUGH?

>> A COMBINATION OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH, BUT THEN THE PAYROLL PROTECTION PLAN WAS A PROGRAM THAT REALLY DID NOT ADDRESS THE NEEDS OF BLACK OWNED BUSINESSES.

ACROSS THE COUNTRY WE OWN AND OPERATE 2.6 MILLION BLACK BUSINESSES, BUT OF THAT, 2.5 MILLION, HAVE NO EMPLOYEES.

SO YOU'RE REALLY LEFT ONLY WITH A 114,000 BLACK OWNED FIRMS THAT HAVE PAYROLL.

SO YOU HAVE A PROGRAM THAT WAS THERE TO PROTECT THE EMPLOYEE AND NOT THE EMPLOYER.

SO THE MAJORITY OF BLACK FIRMS WERE SOLE PROPRIETORS THAT DID NOT HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN THE LARGEST STIMULUS PACKAGE THAT THIS COUNTRY'S SEEN AND THEN THE 3RD LEG OF THAT ALL HAPPENED DURING THE SAME TIME WAS THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD AND THAT HAPPENED ACROSS THE COUNTRY COMBINE ALL 3, WE LOST A TON OF OUR BUSINESSES AND MANY OF THEM ARE STILL FACING REPERCUSSIONS OF TRYING TO REOPEN.

DID NOT HAVE GOOD INFORMATION COMING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AS WELL AS STATE LOCAL OFFICIALS HERE.

>> WELL AND NOW WE'VE GOT THE DELTA VARIANT OUT THERE THAT MIGHT AFFECT BUSINESSES AND ECONOMY AND I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT THEIR CONCERNS ABOUT ANOTHER SHUTDOWN.

WHAT DO SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS AND BANKS NEED TO BE DOING TO POSITION THEMSELVES RIGHT NOW?

>> WE'VE TOLD FOLK EARLY ON IT IS ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS.

WE'VE HEARD SO OFTEN THAT BLACK BUSINESS OWNERS DON'T HAVE THE FINANCIAL LITERACY, AND WE SAY THAT IS DEFINITELY A FARCE.

BLACK BUSINESS OWNERS ARE THE MOST EDUCATED, HAVE MORE POSTGRADUATE DEGREES THAN ANY OTHER ETHNIC BUSINESS OWNERS IN THE COUNTRY.

IT'S ABOUT HAVING RELATIONSHIPS AND SO OFTEN BANKS HAVE NOT MARKETED TO BLACK OWNED BUSINESSES.

MANY BLACK OWNED BUSINESSES HAVE BEEN DETERRED FROM DEALING WITH BANKS IN GENERAL BECAUSE THE NEGATIVE RELATIONSHIPS THEY'RE HAVING.

SO WHAT WE'RE TELLING OUR BUSINESS OWNERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY IS MAKE SURE THAT IN THESE TIMES, BEFORE THE NEXT PANDEMIC, BEFORE THE NEXT VARIANT BEFORE THE NEXT EMERGENCY, ESTABLISH RELATIONSHIPS.

FIND A CDFI.

FIND A BLACK OWNED BANK.

WE KNOW THAT BLACK BANKS MAKE 70% OF THEIR LOANS TO BLACK HOMEOWNERS AS WELL AS BLACK BUSINESS OWNERS, AND SO WE'RE SAYING LET'S TAKE THIS PROACTIVE EFFECT, GO OUT MAKE THOSE RELATIONSHIPS, TELL YOUR BANKER HEY, THIS IS WHAT I'M FORESEEING I'M GOING TO NEED AND ASK NOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PROVIDE TO THAT BANK TO ENSURE THAT YOU HAVE THE BEST OPPORTUNITY TO BE ABLE TO GET THE FUNDING THAT YOU NEED TO STAY AROUD.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE ROLE OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THE RESPONSIBILITY TO HELP BUILD BLACK WEALTH, TO SUPPORT BLACK ENTREPRENEURS, AND HOW THE CURRENT INFRASTRUCTURE PACKAGE ADDRESSES SOME OF SOME OF THOSE RESPONSIBILITIES.

>> GREAT QUESTION AND SO DEBORAH, WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND THE U.S. BLACK CHAMBER IS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WE HAVE A 150 BLACK CHAMBERS IN 42 STATES WITH A MEMBERSHIP BASE OF 385,000 BUSINESSES.

OUR 5 PILLARS DEAL WITH ADVOCACY ACCESS TO CAPITAL, CONTRACTING OPPORTUNITIES, ENTREPRENEURIAL TRAINING AND THEN CHAMBER DEVELOPMENT.

REASON WHY I SAY THAT BECAUSE OUR FIRST PILLAR IS AROUND POLICY CREATION.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT MAKES A COMMENT LIKE FROM THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WHILE HE WAS IN TULSA THAT HE WANTED TO INCREASE THE SPAN FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FROM 5% TO 15%, THAT HE HAS THE RESOURCES TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

IN TODAY'S ENVIRONMENT, ESPECIALLY OVER THE LAST 50 YEARS WHEN BUSINESS OWNERS AND OUR COMMUNITIES HAVE ISSUES, THE SOLUTION USUALLY IS AROUND THE MINORITY PROGRAMS.

DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION.

AND I SAY WE'RE NOT A DIVERSE COMMUNITY, WERE NOT MINORITIES.

WERE BLACK BUSINESS OWNERS THAT HAVE UNIQUE CHALLENGES AND UNIQUE NEEDS.

SO YOU CAN'T SAY WELL 'WE CREATED MINORITY PROGRAMS, BUT WE'RE LOOKING TO DO BUSINESS WITH BLACK OWNED BUSINESSES.'

IT'S NOT REALLY THE SAME.

MINORITY BUSINESSES INCLUDE WOMEN, INCLUDE GAYS AND LESBIANS, ASIANS, HISPANICS, NATIVE AMERICANS.

IN TODAY'S ENVIRONMENT, BLACK BUSINESSES NEED SPECIFIC SOLUTIONS AND SO WHEN YOU HAVE A PRESIDENT THAT SAYS HEY I WANT TO INCREASE MY SSPENDING WITH BLACK FIRMS, YOU GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S AN INTENTIONALITY IN REFERENCE TO POLICY THAT'S BEING CREATED.

AND SO THE U.S. BLACK CHAMBERS HERE TO MAKE SURE THEN WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CREATE POLICY FOR BLACK BUSINESSES, IT STARTS WITH MAKING SURE THAT THE PROGRAMS THAT ARE BEING CREATED ARE FOR BLACK OWNED BUSINESSES.

>> DOES THE CURRENT INFRASTRUCTURE PROGRAM PROVIDE FOR THAT?

>> THE U.S. CHAMBER CAME OUT WITH ITS OWN PROGRAM TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE CERTIFYING BLACK OWNED BUSINESSES.

RIGHT NOW AS A BLACK OWNED BUSINESS, I'M CERTIFIED AS A MINORITY OWNED BUSINESS WHICH MAKES IT EXTREMELY DIFFICULT FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO FIND US, TO DO BUSINESS WITH US TO CREATE PROGRAMS.

USUALLY TALKING TO CORPORATE AMERICA AS WELL THEY WILL SAY, 'YEAH RON, WE'D LOVE TO DO MORE BUSINESS WITH BLACK BUSINESSES BUT WE CAN'T FIND THEM, OR THEY DON'T HAVE THE SIZE AND THE SCALE.

SO THE U.S. BLACK CHAMBER CREATED OUR 'BY BLACK CERTIFICATION.

BYBLACK.US IT ALLOWS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT ALLOWS CORPORATE AMERICA AS WELL AS BLACK PEOPLE THAT ARE LOOKING TO SUPPORT BLACK BUSINESSES WHERE THEY CAN FIND THEM, WHERE THEY CAN FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION AND WHERE WE COULD PROVIDE RESOURCES THAT THEY NEED TO COLLABORATE AND TO GROW.

>> AND LET ME ASK YOU AS WE ADVOCATE FOR BLACK OWNED BUSINESSES AND BUYING BLACK AND BANKING BLACK, HOW DOES THAT SUPPORT THE IDEA OF A UNIFIED AMERICA AND GET AWAY FROM THE 2 AMERICAS?

>> DURING THE LAST 5 YEARS WE HEARD A LOT ABOUT MAKING AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

AS BLACK PEOPLE, WE SAY WE WANT AMERICA TO BE GREAT AS WELL.

BUT IN ORDER FOR THERE TO BE A GREAT AMERICA, THERE MUST BE A GREAT BLACK AMERICA.

AND IN ORDER FOR THERE TO BE A GREAT BLACK AMERICA, THERE MUST BE GREAT BLACK BUSINESSES.

BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THE CREATION AND THE SUSTAINABILITY IN OUR COMMUNITIES COMES FROM OUR ENTREPRENEURS.

MANY TIMES THEY'RE THE LEADERS OF THEIR COMMUNITIES, THEY HIRE FROM WITHIN THE COMMUNITIES, THEY SPEND OTHER DOLLARS WITHIN THEIR COMMUNITIES, AND TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE GREAT COMMUNITIES, WE GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE GREAT BLACK OWNED BUSINESSES AND WHEN WE DO THAT WE WILL HAVE A GREAT AMERICA.

I'M NOT SURE THAT THERE WILL EVER BE ONE GREAT BIG AMERICA FOR EVERYONE TO GET INVOLVED IN, BUT IT STARTS WITH MAKING SURE THAT BLACK BUSINESSES OWNERS, BLACK HOMEOWNERS, BLACK COMMUNITIES HAVE THE RESOURCES AND THE RELATIONSHIPS THAT THEY NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE SUSTAINABLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> RON BUSBY THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR COMMENTS AND FOR YOUR INSIGHT THIS MORNING.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> THIS WEEK GOVERNOR ROY COOPER ANNOUNCED THE STATEWIDE MASK MANDATE WILL END JULY 31ST.

THIS DESPITE AN INCREASE OF 43% IN NEW COVID INFECTIONS.

ACCORDING TO HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES, 99% OF CASES AND 98% OF HOSPITALIZATIONS ARE AMONG THOSE WHO ARE UNVACCINATED AND 75% OF SEQUENCED CASES ARE DUE TO THE DELTA VARIANT AND CONCERN OVER ITS IMPACT IS GROWING.

HERE TO TALK ABOUT IT I'D LIKE TO WELCOME MARY C. CURTIS OF THE EQUAL TIME PODCAST, BUSINESS OWNER LEONARDO WILLIAMS, AND DOCTOR DELON CANTERBURY OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COVID-19 TASK FORCE IN DURHAM.

WANT TO OPEN UP WITH YOU MARY.

WHILE THE GOVERNOR HAS STATED THAT THE MASK MANDATE WILL END, HE'S STILL ADVISING THAT MASKING BE CONTINUED IN CLASSROOMS.

GIVEN THE NUMBERS OF WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH COVID CASES, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE CLEAR MESSAGE SHOULD BE AND ARE LEADERS MAKING THAT MESSAGE?

>> WELL, THE GOVERNOR AND OTHER LEADERS ARE WALKING A FINE LINE BECAUSE THEY'RE TRYING TO BUMP UP THOSE PERCENTAGES AND CONVINCE PEOPLE, BUT TO DO IT WITHOUT BLAMING THEM OR SHAMING THEM AND WITH SCHOOLS, IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT AND COMPLICATED BECAUSE DIFFERENT SCHOOL SYSTEMS AND COUNTIES HAVE DIFFERENT RULES.

BUT I THINK THE MESSAGE IS THAT FOR SO MANY IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL THEY'RE TOO YOUNG TO GET THAT VACCINE.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF FOCUS ON TRYING TO KEEP THEM WITH MASKS AND THE STAFF AND OTHERS IN THE SCHOOL TO PROTECT THEM.

IN HIGH SCHOOLS, SOME ARE ELIGIBLE, BUT STILL YOU DON'T HAVE A HIGH PERCENTAGE.

SO I THINK THE FOCUS WILL BE LET'S PROTECT THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY AS WE'RE GOING FORWARD, AND ALSO TO EMPHASIZE THAT THOSE NUMBERS ARE GOING UP SLIGHTLY.

SO HE'LL BE WANTING TO MAKE THAT MESSAGE CLEAR THAT FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE COMMUNITY, NEED TO MASK, BUT AT THE SAME TIME TO GET PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T GOTTEN IT YET TO GET OUT THERE AND GET THE VACCINE BECAUSE THAT'S IMPORTANT WITHOUT BLAMING THEM FOR NOT GETTING IT AS YET.

>> IT IS A FINE LINE AND IT'S VERY MUCH ABOUT PEOPLE TAKING THE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PUBLIC ENVIRONMENT IS SAFE.

SO LEONARDO, WE JUST TALKED TO RON BUSBY ABOUT COVID'S IMPACT ON BLACK BUSINESSES, NOW WE'RE DEALING WITH THE DELTA VARIANT.

SOME FEAR ANOTHER SHUTDOWN.

CLEARLY GETTING BACK TO NORMAL IS IN THE INTEREST OF OUR ENTIRE ECONOMY.

BUT OUR BLACK BUSINESS OWNERS LEADING THE CHARGE ARE DOING THEIR FAIR SHARE TO EDUCATE COMMUNITIES ABOUT THE CHOICE OF VACCINATING AND WHAT THE IMPACTS COULD BE.

>> RIGHT SO YOU KNOW, GETTING BACK TO NORMAL IS IN THE INTEREST OF OUR ENTIRE ECONOMY.

BUT ALSO IN THE INTEREST ALL OF US PERSONALLY YOU KNOW, AND WE HAVE TO BE TRUTH TELLERS.

WE HAVE TO COMMUNICATE WITH OUR COMMUNITY, ESPECIALLY AS BUSINESS OWNERS WITH OUR CUSTOMER BASE.

THE IMPORTANCE OF OUR SUSTAINABILITY IN ORDER FOR US TO STAY ALIVE AND KEEP THE DOORS OPEN.

YOU KNOW IF WE'RE GOING TO BE THERE WE'RE GOING TO NEED THEM THERE, BUT THAT MEANS YOU KNOW WE NEED EVERYONE TO TAKE ON THE RESPONSIBILITY PERSONALLY TO GET VACCINATED.

WE'VE BEEN DOING OUR PART AS A SMALL BUSINESS IN DURHAM, SMALL BLACK BUSINESS IN DURHAM, BUT JUST ACROSS THE BOARD IN DURHAM WERE DOING FAIRLY WELL.

WE HAVE TO DO THE SAME IN OUR RURAL AREAS.

>> DOCTOR CANTERBURY DO YOU THINK -- I MEAN YOU'RE A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER AS WELL.

ARE BUSINESSES RECEIVING THE SUPPORT THAT THEY NEED ON THE FEDERAL AND LOCAL LEVELS TO EDUCATE COMMUNITIES AND TO ADVOCATE OR JUST EDUCATE ON THE VACCINE?

>> IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

WE DO SEE FEDERAL SUPPORT, WE ARE SEEING MORE TAX DOLLARS GOING TO FUNDING TO EDUCATE THESE COMMUNITIES, HOWEVER WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO AS AN OWNER OF GERIATRICS AND ALSO AS A MEMBER OF THE TASK FORCE, WE STILL HAVE SOCIAL BARRIERS THAT IMPACT REALLY RESULTS AND CARE AND EDUCATION, AND A LOT OF THAT IS FINANCIAL CAPITAL, AND REALLY THE PEOPLE THAT ARE FACING THE COMMUNITIES AND TRYING TO EDUCATE ON THE IMPACTS OF COVID ARE STILL LOOKING FOR FUNDING TO DO THEIR JOB.

WHEN YOU HAVE THESE GAPS SIMILAR TO WHAT WE SEE WITH THE GAPS OF COVID VACCINATION, IT'S GOING TO SEEP, INTO BUSINESS AND OUR COMMERCE AND OUR ECONOMY AND WE SEE IT TODAY AS A LOT OF BLACK BUSINESSES STILL AREN'T GETTING THE FUNDING FOR LOANS FROM GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS.

I WILL SAY THAT WE ARE SEEING MORE OF AN INFLUX TO ADDRESS THESE NEEDS AND HONESTLY IT ALL TIES IN TO WHAT WE CAN DO AS BUSINESS OWNERS IN EDUCATING OUR COMMUNITIES.

>> AND IT SEEMS MARY THAT THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY HAS BEEN A STRONG VOICE IN PUSHING FOR REOPENING BUT THEN HERE WE HAVE YOU KNOW MASK MANDATES BEING LIFTED AND THE DELTA VARIANT PUSHING IN.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THE TOLERANCE OF THE COMMUNITY MIGHT BE FOR RE-SHUTTING THINGS OR CLOSING THINGS BACK DOWN?

>> WELL, THERE'S NO TOLERANCE FOR THAT, AND I FEEL THAT SO MANY FOLKS ARE ACTING AS IF THIS IS IN THE REARVIEW MIRROR AND ONCE WE'VE TAKING OFF THE MASK, THAT WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PUT THEM ON SO THAT'S WHEN AS THE OTHER PANELISTS WERE SAYING, YOU SEE BUSINESSES ON THEIR OWN SOME OF THEM REQUIRING THE MASKS.

IT'S TO THEIR COMFORT LEVEL AND ALSO WE SEE THEM TRYING TO STAFF UP, SO THEY'RE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO COME TO WORK WITH THEM, WHETHER IT'S IN THEIR BUSINESSES OR TEACHERS COMING BACK TO THE SCHOOLS WHO ARE COMFORTABLE GETTING OUT THERE.

SO I THINK THE PUBLIC MIGHT --RIGHT NOW WHEN YOU TAKE THE MASK MANDATE AWAY WE'RE REALLY GOING ON THE HONOR SYSTEM AND SOME OF THE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN VACCINATED AND SOME HAVE NOT, AND WE KNOW THAT, IT'S BECOME A POLITICAL THING AND SO THERE IS SOME RESISTANCE, I JUST WAS ON A FLIGHT AND YOU SEE SOME PEOPLE REALLY COOPERATING AND OTHER PEOPLE NOT WANTING TO COOPERATE.

SO IT I THINK IT WILL BE DIFFICULT BUT BUSINESSES THEMSELVES WE'LL BE SETTING MASK MANDATES AND ENFORCING THAT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME AS THE BUSINESS FOLKS ON YOUR PANEL KNOW, THEY HAVE TO OPEN THEIR BUSINESSES AGAIN AND THAT PEOPLE ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE COMFORTABLE WITH THE RULES THAT THEY'RE SETTING.

>> AND I KNOW, I MEAN LEONARDO AND DOCTOR CANTERBURY WEIGH IN ON THIS, BECAUSE YOU'RE SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS AND YOU KNOW THAT YOU CANNOT DISCRIMINATE IN SERVING PEOPLE.

SO WHAT'S THE IMPERATIVE FOR FOLKS TO GET VACCINATED AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO WEAR THEIR MASKS.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO SOCIAL DISTANCE, THEY CAN COME INTO BUSINESSES AND BE SERVED.

WE'RE TRYING TO GET UP TO 70%, AND LIKE MARY SAID, THERE'S KIND OF THE MASSAGING OF THE NUMBERS TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE VACCINATED AND WE REALLY NEED.

SO WHAT CAN YOU DO AS BUSINESS OWNERS WHAT KIND OF SUPPORT DO YOU NEED TO DO THAT?

LEONARDO?

>> YEAH, I'LL USE THIS ANALOGY - WE ARE BEING SQUEEZED INTO A CORNER.

WITH THE CDC INITIALLY ANNOUNCED IF YOU'RE VACCINATED YOU DON'T HAVE TO WEAR A MASK, IF YOU AREN'T THEN YOU SHOULD?

RIGHT!

[LAUGHTER] WE - I MEAN OUR BUSINESS WAS HIT SO HARD BECAUSE WE SIMPLY MADE A PUBLIC STATEMENT.

WE SIMPLY SAID WEAR YOUR MASKS TO YOUR TABLE WHEN YOU WALK INTO A RESTAURANT, WEAR YOUR MASK.

WHEN YOU GET YOUR TABLE, TAKE IT OFF.

WE RECEIVE MAYBE ABOUT 15 ONE STAR REVIEWS ON GOOGLE, SO YOU HAVE THIS - YOU CAN'T DISCRIMINATE RIGHT?

>> HAVE YOU GOTTEN PUSH BACK FOR THAT?

>> OH YEAH!

BUT WE ALSO GOT A LOT OF POT, POSITIVE SUPPORT AS WELL.

BUT WE RECEIVED THREATENING EMAILS, "HOW DARE YOU PUNISH OXYGEN BREATHERS!"

WE BECAME IN THE MIDDLE OF A WAR!

BECOMING POLITICAL IT DID HARM US A BIT, BUT WE SAW IT THROUGH.

YEAH WE'VE BEEN SQUOZE INTO A CORNER WE-- >> YOU'RE DOING WHAT YOU CAN, AND WHEN IT COMES TO SUPPORT FOR YOUR POSITION ON THIS SOMETIMES WHEN SOMETHING'S GOING ON AND AND WE DON'T LIKE IT, SOMEBODY COMES UP WITH A POLICY, OR A LAW TO SUPPORT THE NEW THOUGHT.

SO DOCTOR CANTERBURY, HERE WE'VE GOT A DESPERATE SITUATION.

ARE YOU GETTING THAT SUPPORT THAT YOU REALLY NEED?

>> IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

AND AGAIN IT TIES INTO THE FACT THAT US BLACK ENTREPRENEURS WE'RE NOT ALWAYS GETTING ACCESS TO THOSE THAT WE NEED TO SUPPORT OUR COMMUNITIES, AND SO WHAT WE REALLY STRIVE HERSELF ON DOING IS PARTNERING WITH THOSE NONPROFITS THOSE FRONT FACING CUSTOMERS TO EDUCATE.

IT STILL COMES BACK TO EDUCATING AND CREATING A SAFE SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO SPEAK THEIR OPINIONS OR CONCERNS ON WHY THEY MAY NOT BE VACCINATED.

NO ONE SHOULD INFRINGE ON ANYONE'S PERSONAL RIGHTS OR FREEDOM OF LIBERTY.

OF COURSE WE KNOW THAT.

BUT WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT THE GOOD OF THE PUBLIC THE GOOD OF THE COMMUNITY, YOUR FAMILY, YOUR LOVED ONES YOUR CHILDREN, WE'VE GOT TO PUT THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE AND NOT POLITICIZE EVERY SINGLE THING LEADING TO WORSE OUTCOMES FOR REALLY THE MINORITY POPULATION.

>> WELL THE NATION HAS NOT REACHED BIDEN'S GOAL OF 70% VACCINATED.

IN FACT WE'RE HOVERING AROUND 56%.

NOW CONSIDERING THE IMPACT OF THE DELTA VARIANT, BOTH HE AND THE CDC ARE NOW SAYING WE HAVE A PANDEMIC OF THE UNVACCINATED.

MARY THIS IS SORT OF A NEW NARRATIVE OUT THERE AND I'M NOT SURE HOW HELPFUL IT IS.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> WELL, YEAH, AS I SAID THAT IT'S BECOME THIS POLITICAL CUDGEL INSTEAD OF TALKING ABOUT THE SCIENCE, WHICH IS WHY YOU GET SCENES WHERE ON THE FLOOR OF IN CONGRESS YOU HAVE GOT DOCTOR ANTHONY FAUCI WHO IS USUALLY PRETTY CALM.

SCREAMING OUT -- >> HE'S HAD IT!

[LAUGHS] >> -- TO SENATOR RAND PAUL SAYING "YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT."

BUT AT THE SAME TIME YOU DO SEE SOME OF THESE REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS CHANGING THEIR TUNE WHEN FOLKS LIKE RON DESANTIS IN FLORIDA, THEY WERE VERY LAX ABOUT REGULATIONS AND OPENING UP AND THEN SAW THE NUMBERS ABOUT ONE IN 5 OF THE NEW CASES BEING IN FLORIDA.

SO HE'S ENCOURAGING PEOPLE.

THE GOVERNOR OF ARKANSAS IS GOING AROUND ENCOURAGING PEOPLE.

YOU SEE THAT THE ALABAMA GOVERNOR KAY IVEY BASICALLY SAYING, 'LISTEN FOLKS, GET VACCINATED.'

SO I THINK THIS DELTA VARIANT AND THIS FEAR OF A SURGE WHICH WOULD ALSO AFFECT BUSINESSES AND THE ECONOMY OF THE STATES ARE PUTTING SOME FEAR INTO FOLKS, AND EVEN SOME FOLKS WHO YOU REALLY WOULDN'T EXPECT ARE TALKING ABOUT THE UNVACCINATED AND THAT THEY NEED TO GO AND GET A SHOT.

SO IT'S BEEN AN INTERESTING TURN OF EVENTS WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THIS MESSAGING AND EVEN ON SOME CONSERVATIVE TELEVISION NETWORKS YOU SEE THE HOSTS WHO HAVE BEEN VERY SKEPTICAL TALKING ABOUT THIS SURGE, AND I THINK THE CDC WARNINGS AND THE NUMBERS HAVE BASICALLY MAKES SOME BELIEVERS OUT OF SOME FOLKS.

>> I THINK THAT SAYING THAT THIS IS A PANDEMIC OF THE UNVACCINATED SOMEWHAT SEPARATES THE VACCINATED FROM THE UNVACCINATED AND MAY EVEN BE OFFENSIVE TO SOME DEGREE, YET WE KNOW DOCTOR CANTERBURY ABOUT 40% OF PEOPLE WALKING AROUND DO NOT HAVE A COVID VACCINE FOR WHATEVER REASON AND THEY'RE NOT OBLIGATED TO TELL ANYBODY ABOUT THEIR STATUS.

WHAT KIND OF RISK ARE THEY TAKING IF THEY HAVE CHOICE, WHAT KIND OF RISK ARE THEY TAKING FOR THEMSELVES, FOR THE UNVACCINATED COMMUNITY, AND FOR THE VACCINATED COMMUNITY?

>> SO BEING UNVACCINATED DOES PUT YOU AT A SUBSTANTIAL RISK AND WE ARE STILL DISCOVERING NEW LONG-TERM CHRONIC ISSUES THAT PEOPLE GET FROM COVID AND THEY ARE LONG LASTING.

I'VE HAD COLLEAGUES I HAVE PATIENTS MY OWN FAMILY MEMBERS HAVE GOTTEN COVID WITHIN THE LAST WEEK OR 2, AND THEIR HAVING TO QUARANTINE, BECAUSE AGAIN, IT MAY HAVE BEEN ACCESSED IT MAY HAVE BEEN FEARS IT MAY HAVE BEEN CONCERNS.

NO ONE SHOULD DISCREDIT ANY OF YOUR CONCERNS.

YOU SHOULD TALK TO SOMEONE THAT'S TRUSTED, BUT THE RISKS ARE REAL.

WE SEE THE NUMBERS IN OTHER COUNTRIES LIKE INDIA AND SOUTH AMERICA, WE HAVE PEOPLE ROILING IN THAT RIGHT NOW, AND THE NUMBERS ARE REALLY HERE ARE STILL SEEN BLACK AND LATINOS DIE TWICE TO 3 TIMES HIGHER THAN OUR WHITE COUNTERPARTS.

SO ULTIMATELY THERE'S A RISK OF EITHER YOU BEING UNVACCINATED AND MAYBE SPREADING IT TO A LOVED ONE, A GRANDMOTHER, AN AUNTIE, WHO YOU KNOW ALSO ISN'T VACCINATED.

THAT CAN PUT PEOPLE IN JEOPARDY.

WHEN YOUR FAMILY IS IN JEOPARDY, YOU WANT TO BE MAKING DECISIONS THAT ARE PREVENTABLE ON A HOSPITAL DEATH BED.

NOBODY WANTS THAT.

>> LEONARDO, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

YOU'RE A BUSINESS OWNER, YOU'VE WORKED WITH SCHOOL COMMUNITIES AS WELL STUDENTS, TEACHERS, IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THERE'S NOT NECESSARILY A MESSAGE THAT CAN COMPEL ANYBODY TO GO GET A VACCINATION IF THEY'RE ANTI VACCINE, AND THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE.

BUT WHAT ARE YOU OBSERVING AND IN TERMS OF REACHING THAT GOAL OF 70% AND MAYBE THE WHOLE IDEA OF VACCINE HESITATION IS THAT STRONG IN OUR COMMUNITY?

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW WE ARE AT WAR WITH DISINFORMATION.

IT'S REALLY REALLY REAL, ESPECIALLY IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

ONE OF THE STRUGGLES THAT WE DEALT WITH AS A BUSINESS AS WELL AS MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES ACROSS THE CITY, IS WE HAVE SOME OF OUR STAFF WHO JUST REFUSE TO GET VACCINATED.

AND WHAT THAT'S CAUSING GET ECONOMIC INSTABILITY.

ONE THING THAT HAPPENED TO US, WE HAD COOK, A LINE COOK WHO HAD TO TAKE TIME OFF BECAUSE HE WAS AROUND SOMEONE WHO WAS EXPOSED.

NOW FORTUNATELY, HE DIDN'T HAVE IT, BUT ALSO HE REFUSED TO GET VACCINATED.

BUT WHEN HE LEFT I HAD TO FILL THAT SPACE AND BEING SHORT STAFFED CAUSES ANOTHER ISSUE.

SO NOW WE'RE DEALING WITH THE INTERNAL INSTABILITY OF RUNNING A BUSINESS AS WELL AS THE VULNERABILITY OF NOT KNOWING WHO IS COMING INTO YOUR BUSINESS.

>> DOCTOR CANTERBURY PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THESE BREAKTHROUGH CASES WHERE PEOPLE HAVE RECEIVED THE VACCINE, BUT STILL GOT COVID.

DO YOU THINK THAT THAT IS CONTRIBUTING TO VACCINE HESITATION?

>> I CAN HONESTLY SAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE CAN BE USED TO PROVIDE SKEPTICISM OR HESITANCY REGARDING ANYTHING WITH THE VACCINES.

BUT THE TRUTH COMES DOWN TO THIS: I DO BELIEVE THAT BREAKTHROUGH CASES IS A BIT OF AN ANOMALY.

WE KNOW THAT THESE VACCINES ARE NOT A 100% AT PREVENTING ILLNESS.

SO IF SOMEONE WERE TO BE VACCINATED AND GET A CASE AND IT'S MILD OR ASYMPTOMATIC, I WOULDN'T QUITE CHARACTERIZE IT AS A BREAKTHROUGH CASE.

I WOULD MORESO SAY THOSE WHO ARE HOSPITALIZED OR DYING AND THEY'RE VACCINATED THOSE ARE NUMBERS THAT WOULD GIVE ME MORE PAUSE, AND I WOULD SAY THOSE ARE TECHNICALLY BREAKTHROUGH CASES FOR ME.

THE TRUTH IS THE NUMBERS ARE THERE, THEY DON'T LIE, WE GOT 99% OF PEOPLE IN MARYLAND WHO RECENTLY HAD COVID WERE UNVACCINATED OR THE ONES HOSPITALIZED OR DYING.

WE'RE SEEING LESS THAN ONE PERCENT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE VACCINATED REALLY HAVING ANY HOSPITALIZATIONS OR DEATHS PERIOD AND THIS IS ABOUT 5500 PEOPLE OUT OF CLOSE TO 160 MILLION.

SO YOUR PERCENTAGES ARE STILL EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY LOW EVEN GIVING MORE REASON TO CONSIDER GETTING VACCINATED.

THE RISK IS STILL THERE.

WE HAVE WIDESPREAD COMMUNITY SPREAD.

WE'RE NOT AT A POINT WHERE WE HAVE THIS CONTAINED ON REGIONAL LEVELS EVEN THOUGH WE DO SEE SOME DIFFERENCES IN VACCINATION, AND SO THERE'S MORE PEOPLE THAT ARE UNVACCINATED THERE ARE STILL THOSE VERY SAME RISK PROVIDING HARM FOR YOUR FAMILY.

>> WELL CERTAINLY.

WE HOPE THAT PEOPLE WILL BE VERY THOUGHTFUL IN CONSIDERING WHAT THEY CHOOSE TO DO AND HOW IT'S GOING TO IMPACT THEIR OWN HOMES AND ALSO THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY DOCTOR DELON CANTERBURY, MARY C. CURTIS AND LEONARDO WILLIAMS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> MY PLEASURE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> I WANT TO THANK TODAYS GUESTS.

WE INVITE YOU TO ENGAGE WITH US TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM USING THE HASHTAG "BLACK ISSUES FORUM".

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