♪ ♪ >> Renee: ANDY BARR HAS SERVED AS CONGRESSMAN FOR KENTUCKY'S 6th CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT SINCE JANUARY OF 2013.

HE IS A SENIOR MEMBER OF THE HOUSE FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE AND IS A RANKING MEMBER OF THE FINANCIAL SERVICES SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY, INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND MONETARY POLICY.

AND THE 117th CONGRESS, HE BEGAN SERVING ON THE HOUSE FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE.

I TALK WITH THE CONGRESSMAN IN OUR LEXINGTON STUDIOS ABOUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE PACKAGE, COVID, THE BORDER CRISIS AND AN ACT COMMEMORATING HIS LATE WIFE.

THAT'S COMING UP ON "CONGRESSIONAL UPDATE."

CONGRESSMAN ANDY BARR, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

GOOD TO SEE YOU SIR.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU, RENEE.

>> Renee: THANK YOU FOR COMING TO OUR STUDIO.

I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN ON A WHIRLWIND TOUR IN THE DISTRICT THESE FEW DAYS OR WEEKS YOU HAVE HAD FOR RECESS AND YOU ARE GOING BACK.

AT THE TIME WE RECORDED THIS INTERVIEW BEFORE THE WEEKEND, HEADED BACK TO D.C. TO ACT ON THIS INFRASTRUCTURE PACKAGE.

A LOT HAPPENING.

TRUNCATE THE RECESS BUT YOU THINK IT IS A GOOD REASON WHY?

>> WELL, I WISH WE WERE GOING TO GO BACK TO A BETTER VOTE.

UNFORTUNATELY, I'M PESSIMISTIC ABOUT THE VOTE IN THE HOUSE.

IN THE SENATE THERE WAS A STAND ALONE VOTE ON A BIPARTISAN INFRASTRUCTURE BILL.

I HAD PROBLEMS WITH THAT INFRASTRUCTURE BILL BUT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE WE ARE GOING TO BE EVEN VOTING ON THAT.

SPEAKER PELOSI HAS INSISTED THAT WE IN THE HOUSE VOTE ON NOT ONLY THE BIPARTISAN INFRASTRUCTURE BILL THAT'S COMING FROM THE SENATE BUT ALSO A VERY PARTISAN $$3.5 TRILLION SPENDING BILL THAT'S REALLY MORE OF A PROGRESSIVE WISH LIST.

VERY PARTISAN.

IT WON'T EARN ANY REPUBLICAN SUPPORT.

AND TO THE EXTENT THE SPEAKER CONDITIONS PASSAGE OF THAT, ON GET-- OR GIVING US A VOTE ON THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL, I DON'T THINK YOU ARE GOING TO SEE MUCH BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR WHAT CAME OVER FROM THE SENATE.

>> Renee: SO IF IT WERE A STAND ALONE MEASURE, AND MAYBE BY THE TIME THIS ACER, WE HAVE A CONCLUSION TO THAT, YOU WOULD SUPPORT THAT $1.2 TRILLION INFRASTRUCTURE PACKAGE IF IT WERE STAND ALONE?

>> NO MA'AM, NOT AT THIS POINT.

I HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THAT AS WELL, EVEN IF IT'S A STAND ALONE.

NOW I'M OPEN TO LOOKING AT IT, ESPECIALLY IF THERE ARE SOME CHANGES BECAUSE WE DESPERATELY NEED INFRASTRUCTURE IMPROVEMENTS.

WE LOOK AT KENTUCKY.

KENTUCKY CLEARLY HAS MANY INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS.

IN MY DISTRICT ALONE, WE NEED TO COMPLETE THE NEWTOWN PIKE EXTENSION INTO THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY.

THAT'S A PRIORITY FOR ME.

DOWN IN MADISON COUNTY, WE NEED TO HAVE A NEW ROAD THAT GOES INTO THE CENTRAL KENTUCKY AIRPORT FOR EASTERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY, BEREA COLLEGE, FOR THE INDUSTRY THERE IN MADISON COUNTY.

WE HAVE A LOT OF RURAL ROADS AND BRIDGES AND MAJOR INFRASTRUCTURE FOR TOYOTA AND ALL OF CENTRAL KENTUCKY, WE NEED A NEW BRENT SPENTS BRIDGE.

NOW IN OUR DISTRICT BUT THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT PIECE OF INFRASTRUCTURE.

THAT BRIDGE IS FALLING INTO THE OHIO RIVER.

THERE ARE SO MANY EXAMPLES AROUND THE COUNTRY WHERE, FOR SAFETY AND FOR BETTER CHANNELS OF COMMERCE, WE NEED THAT HEROIC INVESTMENT AND REBUILDING OUR COUNTRY.

THE PROBLEM THAT I SEE, EVEN WITH THE BIPARTISAN PACKAGE COMING OVER FROM THE SENATE, EVEN IF IT'S A STAND ALONE VOTE, SEPARATE AND DIVORCED FROM THAT PARTISAN $3.5 TRILLION HUMAN INFRASTRUCTURE BILL, IS THAT I THINK IT'S INEQUITABLE FROM THE STANDPOINT OF RURAL AMERICA.

THAT BILL, THE BIPARTISAN BILL, PROPOSES TO SPEND MORE ON MASS TRANSIT AND INTERCITY INFRASTRUCTURE EVEN WITH BROADBAND AND ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE THAN IT WOULD FOR BASIC ROADS AND BRIDGES THAT WOULD BENEFIT RURAL AMERICA.

EVEN THOUGH A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF INFRASTRUCTURE WOULD ACTUALLY BE USED IN MASS TRANSIT AND RAIL, COMPARED TO ROADS AND BRIDGES, RURAL AMERICA REALLY WOULD BE LEFT BEHIND RELATIVELY SPEAKING.

SO-- >> Renee: ALL THE PROJECTS YOU MENTION IN THE CENTRAL KENTUCKY AREA, THE DISTRICT YOU REPRESENT WOULD NOT BENEFIT FROM THE $1.2 TRILLION OR COULD IT STAND TO?

>> I'M NOT CONVINCED THAT THEY WOULD.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEEK THOSE ASSURANCES THOUGH.

AND THAT COULD DEFINITELY INFLUENCE MY DECISION.

THERE IS MORE TO LOOK AT WITH THE BILL.

WE NEED INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT.

BUT AGAIN, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE STATES HAVE MORE DISCRETION WITH HOW TO USE IT WITHOUT FEDERAL STRINGS ATTACHED.

SO LOOK, IT'S REGRETTABLE, WE NEED IT, WE NEED A BIPARTISAN APPROACH TO THIS.

THE OTHER THING I WANT TO SEE MORE IN THE INFRASTRUCTURE PACKAGE THAT'S NOT EVEN IN THE BIPARTISAN BILL IS MORE FOCUS PRIVATE CAPITAL.

AS A MEMBER OF THE FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE, WE GET BRIEFINGS ALL THE TIME FROM BANKS AND NON-BANK FINANCIAL FIRMS, LIFE INSURANCE COMPANIES, PRIVATE EQUITY FIRMS, EVEN SOVEREIGN WEALTH FUNDS FROM OVERSEAS, FOREIGN DIRECT INVESTMENT.

THERE IS SO MUCH PRIVATE MONEY THAT WOULD NOT BURDEN THE TAXPAYERS, WOULD NOT REQUIRE US TO BORROW $250 BILLION, WHICH IS WHAT THIS BIPARTISAN PACKAGE WOULD REQUIRE; BORROWING AN ADDITIONAL QUARTER TRILLION DOLLARS.

BUT WE COULD UTILIZE PRIVATE CAPITAL TO ACTUALLY REBUILD OUR COUNTRY THROUGH PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS.

AND BEYOND THAT, WE NEED REGULATORY STREAMLINING, PERMIT STREAMLINING.

ON AVERAGE IN THIS COUNTRY, BECAUSE OF SO MUCH RED TAPE AND BUREAUCRACY FROM WASHINGTON, IT TAKES SEVEN TO 10 YEARS JUST TO BUILD A NEW ROAD OR A BRIDGE.

AND IF WE JUST CUT DOWN ON THE PERMITTING AND RED TAPE AND THE NIPA REVIEW PROCESS, WE COULD SAVE $3.7 TRILLION IN JUST TRUNCATE THE TIMELINE TO APPROVE THESE PROJECTS TO ABOUT TWO YEARS.

>> Renee: SO HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING, IF YOU WERE TO BE ABLE TO NEGOTIATE SOME OF THE PROJECTS IN YOUR DISTRICT INTO THIS $1.2 TRILLION, WOULD THAT BE ENOUGH TO PERSUADE YOU TO VOTE FOR THIS, IF IT'S TETHERED TO THE $3.2 TRILLION BUDGET RECONCILIATION MEASURE?

THE CARROT AND STICK DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU?

>> IF THEY'RE IN ANY WAY TIED TOGETHER, IT'S A NON-STARTER FOR ME.

>> Renee: WHETHER OR NOT YOUR DISTRICT BENEFITS?

>> BECAUSE IT DISHONORS THE TAXPAYERS THAT I REPRESENT.

TO ASK THE TAXPAYERS THAT I REPRESENT TO TAKE ON AN ADDITIONAL $3.5 TRILLION OF WASTEFUL SPENDING, LOOK, WE WILL HAVE OPPORTUNITIES TO GET PROJECTS TO CENTRAL KENTUCKY, BUT I JUST CANNOT IN GOOD CONSCIENCE ADD $3.5 TRILLION TO THE NATIONAL DEBT AFTER WE'VE BORROWED $4 TRILLION FIGHTING COVID AND AN ADDITIONAL $2 TRILLION THIS YEAR EARLIER IN A PACKAGE THAT ONLY SPENT 9% ON COVID.

LOOK, WE NEED TO DO THIS BUT WE NEED TO DO THIS IN A RESPONSIBLE MANNER.

>> Renee: THE HANDFUL OF MEASURES THAT HAVE COME FROM CONGRESS, COVID RELIEF MEASURES.

IS IT WORKING?

HAS THE MORE THAN GOTTEN TO WHERE IT NEEDS TO GO AND IS THE ECONOMY BENEFITING FROM THOSE MEASURES?

>> I THINK SO.

I THINK THOSE FIRST FIVE MEASURES THAT WERE BIPARTISAN, THAT WERE PASSED THAT INCLUDED THINGS LIKE THE PAYCHECK PROTECTION PROGRAM, WHICH WAS REALLY ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL RESPONSES TO COVID IN THE ECONOMIC CONSEQUENCES OF COVID TO PROVIDE THAT LIFELINE FOR WORKERS AND SMALL BUSINESSES TO KEEP WORKERS ON THE PAYROLL.

I THINK THAT WAS A VERY SUCCESSFUL PROGRAM.

MANY OF MY CONSTITUENTS SMALL BUSINESSES ARE NOW IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING THOSE LOANS FULLY FORGIVEN.

AND SO IT WAS, IN EFFECT, A GRANT TO KEEP THOSE SMALL BUSINESSES OPEN AND OPERATING AND KEEP THOSE WORKERS ON THE PAYROLL DURING THOSE LOCK DOWNS.

THE OTHER THING I THINK WE DID A GOOD JOB RESPONDING TO THE HOSPITALS AND THE NURSING HOMES.

WE PROVIDED EMERGENCY ASSISTANCE TO THOSE PROVIDERS.

NOT JUST TO PROVIDE THE PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT AND THE PAYMENTS TO TAKE CARE OF THESE COVID PATIENTS BUT ALSO BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE RURAL HOSPITALS NO LONGER HAD THE ELECTIVE PROCEDURES.

THEY JUST LOST REVENUE.

SO WE COVERED THE GAP THERE FOR MANY OF THEM, KEPT THE RURAL FACILITIES OPEN AND AVAILABLE TO OUR CONSTITUENTS.

AND THEN I THINK OPERATION WARP SPEED IS THE GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT OF THOSE BIPARTISAN MEASURES IN RESPONSE TO COVID.

WHAT ULTIMATELY WAS THE ANSWER TO THESE LOCKDOWNS, WHAT WAS THE ANSWER TO DEFEATING THE FIRST PHASE OF THE PANDEMIC, IT WAS THESE SAFE AND EFFECTIVE VACCINES THROUGH OPERATION WARP SPEED.

I THINK WHEN THE HISTORY IS WRITTEN ABOUT THIS HISTORIC PANDEMIC, I THINK ONE OF THE GREAT SUCCESSES WAS THE PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN THE AMERICAN TAXPAYERS AND AMERICAN PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY THROUGH THE INGENUITY OF THE GROUNDBREAKING RESEARCH AND MEDICAL INNOVATION THAT WAS HAPPENING TO DELIVER IN LESS THAN ONE YEAR'S TIME, MULTIPLE SAFE AND EFFECTIVE VACCINES THAT GOT US OUT OF THE INITIAL PHASE OF THE PANDEMIC.

>> Renee: A COUPLE THINGS I WANT TO PARSE OUT THERE.

THE $5.2 TRILLION SPENT ON THE CORONAVIRUS RELIEF MEASURES AS BENEVOLENT AND PRODUCTIVE AS IT COULD BE, IT IS STILL RACKING UP DEBT AND YOU HAVE BEEN ONE CONCERNED ABOUT THE NATION'S DEBT LOAD.

HOW DO YOU RECONCILE WHAT FUTURE TAXPAYERS AND GENERATIONS LIKE YOUR KIDS MAY HAVE TO MAKE UP FOR BECAUSE OF WHAT WE HAVE DONE NOW?

>> WELL, WE NEED GROWTH.

WE NEED MORE TAXPAYERS.

WE NEED TO STOP PAYING PEOPLE TO NOT WORK.

WE WANT PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN STRUGGLING DURING THE PANDEMIC, TO RECONNECT WITH EMPLOYMENT AND HAVE THOSE OPPORTUNITIES AND BECOME TAXPAYERS.

THAT'S ONE OF THE WAYS WE REBUILD THE TAX BASE AND DEAL WITH OUR DEFICIT CHALLENGES.

BUT CONTINUING THESE POLICIES TO PAY AMERICANS TO SIT ON THE SIDELINES IS WHAT IS CONTRIBUTING TO THE LABOR SHORTAGES.

IT'S CONTRIBUTING TO THE INFLATION.

>> Renee: SUCH AS WHAT ANDY BESHEAR DID WITH THE $1500 BONUS IN KENTUCKY?

>> IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT WE CONTINUED TO HAVE ENHANCED UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS WHEN THE BUSINESSES WERE REOPENING.

WHAT YOU SAW WITH MANY OF THE STATES THAT DECIDED TO DISCONTINUE THESE ENHANCED UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS WAS THAT THEIR LABOR FORCE PARTICIPATION CAME BACK A LOT QUICKER.

AND, YOU KNOW, FOR THE PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON WHO ARE CALLING FOR ANOTHER EXTENSION OF ENHANCED UNEMPLOYMENT IS REALLY BAD POLICY BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO HURT THOSE PEOPLE BY DISINCENTIVIZING THEM FROM GOING BACK TO WORK AND BEING ABLE TO BE SELF SUFFICIENT.

THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TO DO TO DEAL WITH OUR DEFICIT AND DEBT CHALLENGES.

ONE OF THE REASONS I VOTED AGAINST THE SO CALLED AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN AT THE BEGINNING OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS NUMBER ONE IT WAS UNLIKE THE PREVIOUS FIVE BILLS.

IT WAS NOT BIPARTISAN.

IT WAS LARGELY NOT RESPONSIVE TO THE COVID PANDEMIC.

LESS THAN 9% OF IT WAS TARGETING PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURES.

A LOT OF IT WAS LIKE BAILOUTS OF STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS FOR PRE-COVID LIABILITIES, FOR EXAMPLE.

SO IT WAS PRETTY EASY TO OPPOSE THAT BILL, AND ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU CONSIDER THAT FROM THE FIVE PREVIOUS BIPARTISAN BILLS WE HAD STILL NOT DEPLOYED A TRILLION DOLLARS.

SO WHEN PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS ASKING CONGRESS TO PASS THAT BILL WHICH IT ULTIMATELY DID ON A PARTISAN BASIS, WE HAD STILL NOT SPENT A TRILLION DOLLARS AND MOST OF THE MONEY IN THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN WAS NOT EVEN SCHEDULED TO BE DEPLOYED UNTIL AFTER 2021.

SO I THINK THAT WAS A VERY FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE BILL AND THAT'S WHY I VOTED AGAINST IT.

>> Renee: YOU MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO ABOUT HOW OPERATION WARP SPEED, WHEN HISTORY GOES BACK AND RECORDS THESE EVENTS, THAT IT WILL BE TRIUMPHANT FOR PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRIES AND OTHERS AND PERHAPS YOU DIDN'T SAY THIS, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE GREATER VACCINE HESITANCY AND OUT AND OUT REFUSAL FROM MORE MEMBERS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAN THE DEMOCRAT PARTY.

WHAT CAN BE DONE FROM MEMBERS OF CONGRESS LIKE YOURSELF, TO DEPOLITICIZE THE ISSUE OF VACCINES AND HOW CAN YOU CHANGE YOUR MESSAGING AND RHETORIC TO MATCH WHAT MANY OF YOU HAVE ALREADY DONE, WHICH IS GET VACCINATED?

>> WELL, YOU'RE RIGHT RENEE, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION DESERVES TREMENDOUS CREDIT FOR SPEAR HEADING THIS OPERATION WARP SPEED AND A BIPARTISAN GROUP IN CONGRESS DESERVES CREDIT FOR PROVIDING THE FUNDING.

AND OF COURSE THE SCIENTISTS, INVESTIGATORS AND PHARMACISTS AT THE AMERICAN PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES THAT REALLY SPEARHEADED THIS, THEY DESERVE TREMENDOUS CREDIT.

SO THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DESERVE CREDIT.

AND I OPPOSE MANDATES BECAUSE I DON'T THINK MANDATES ARE VERY EFFECTIVE IN OR DEALING WITH THE VACCINE HESS HESITANCY.

>> Renee: VACCINE PASSPORTS AND THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.

>> I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT WAY TO GO BUT DO I THINK WE NEED TO DEPOLITICIZE IT.

THERE IS A LOT OF CREDIT THAT CAN GO AROUND HERE.

LOOK, JUST FOLLOW THE SCIENCE I THINK IS THE ANSWER.

IF YOU TALK TO THE EPIDEMIOLOGISTS IN THE 6th CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT OF KENTUCKY AND I TALK TO THE INFECTIOUS DISEASE HEROS WHO LED THE WAY DURING THE PANDEMIC, THEY WILL TELL YOU THAT THE NUMBER OF-- THE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE CURRENTLY HOSPITALIZED IN CENTRAL KENTUCKY HOSPITALS, THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEM ARE UNVACCINATED.

AND THE DATA IS IN.

I MEAN WE HAVE MORE DATA ON THE SAFETY AND EFFICACY OF THESE OPERATION WARP SPEED VACCINES THAN WE'VE HAD IN OTHER VACCINES EVER, AND SO, YOU KNOW, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION CAN TAKE A VICTORY LAP ON THIS FROM THE STANDPOINT OF DOING SOMETHING HISTORIC IN LESS THAN A YEAR'S TIME, WHEN THIS VIRUS CAME TO OUR SHORES FROM CHINA, OUR PEOPLE WERE ABLE TO DEVELOP MULTIPLE SAFE AND EFFECTIVE VACCINES.

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SLASHED THE RED TAPE AT THE FDA, NOT COMPROMISING OR CUTTING CORNERS BUT SEQUENCING THE TRIALS AND THE TESTING CONCURRENTLY AS OPPOSED TO CONSECUTIVELY, REDUCING THE TIME FOR THE APPROVALS AND THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING.

WE NOW KNOW THAT MOST PEOPLE WHO ARE VACCINATED, IF THEY GET ONE OF THE VARIANTS, THEIR RISK GOES SIGNIFICANTLY DOWN AND MOST PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN VACCINATED WILL NOT FACE HOSPITALIZATION.

>> Renee: DO YOU TRUST Dr. ANTHONY FAUCI?

>> WELL, I THINK HE HAS MADE A LOT OF MISTAKES, LET ME PUT IT THAT WAY.

YOU KNOW, THIS WHOLE VACCINE ISSUE, AND FRANKLY THE PANDEMIC GENERALLY HAS BEEN POLITICIZED AND REGRETTABLY I THINK Dr. FAUCI HAS BEEN PART OF THE POLITICALIZATION.

WE DO NEED TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, USING HYPERBOLIC AND CONTRADICTORY MESSAGES HAS BEEN ONE OF THE REASONS WHY HE HAS INVITED CRITICISM ON HIMSELF.

IF YOU LOOK OVER THE COURSE OF THE PANDEMIC, UNFORTUNATELY, MANY TIMES Dr. FAUCI WHO ADMITTEDLY HAD A VERY PRISTINE REPUTATION COMING INTO THE PANDEMIC, HE CONTRADICTED HIMSELF SO OFTEN ON THE MASK WEARING AND WHAT WAS THE RIGHT APPROACH AND I THINK THAT'S HURT HIS... >> Renee: DURING AN EVOLVING PANDEMIC WHICH YOU ARE STILL TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, IT'S A REASON WHY IT IS CALLED THE NOVEL CORONAVIRUS, WE HAVE NEVER HAD IT BEFORE.

IS THERE NOT SOME GRACE THAT CAN BE GIVEN TO HIM AND OTHER VIROLOGISTS AND EPIDEMIOLOGISTS WHO WERE JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS HAPPENING.

>> GRACE COULD BE GIVEN TO ALL OF US BECAUSE WE'VE STRUGGLED TO TRY TO DEAL WITH THIS.

BOTH ADMINISTRATIONS, BOTH PARTIES IN THE CONGRESS, THE SCIENTISTS WHO ARE DEALING WITH IT.

BUT BY AND LARGE, I GIVE A LOT OF CREDIT TO SOME OF THE EARLY BIPARTISAN RESPONSES IN THE LEGISLATION, THE CARES ACT, FOR EXAMPLE, THE PPP PROGRAM, THE RESPONSE TO THE HOSPITALS AND THE NURSING HOMES.

BUT LOOK, WHEN PEOPLE MADE MISTAKES, WE NEED TO CALL THEM OUT WHAT WE SAW WITH GOVERNOR CUOMO IN NEW YORK WAS SHAMEFUL.

WHEN THE SCIENCE WAS THERE, HE SENT A LOT-- HIS EXECUTIVE ORDER ALLOWED FOR THOSE VULNERABLE SENIOR CITIZENS TO GO BACK INTO NURSING HOMES.

AND THAT WAS A TOTAL DISASTER.

SO, LOOK, THERE DOES TEED NEED TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY WHEN MISTAKES WERE MADE.

>> Renee: LET'S TALK ABOUT COVID MORE ALONG WITH THE BORDER CRISIS.

WE KNOW THERE HAS BEEN SOME MESSAGING ABOUT CONNECTING THE BORDER CRISIS TO COVID AND THAT A LOT OF THE DELTA VARIANT EXPLOSION THAT WE ARE SEEING, MANY ARE SAYING THAT THOSE CASES COME FROM THE BORDER, WHERE WE UNDERSTAND THAT MIGRANTS THERE ARE TESTED FOR COVID-19 AND IF THEY APPROVE POSITIVE, THEY'RE QUARANTINED IN A HOTEL.

THERE SEEM TO BE MITIGATION MEASURES IN PLACE.

DO YOU THINK THERE IS A CONNECTION TO THE BORDER CRISIS AND ECTS MOSTLY CLOUDYING NUMBERS OF THE DELTA VARIANT AND COVID-19?

>> YES.

I WOULD SAY WOEFULLY INADEQUATE MITIGATION.

SO I THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE FRUSTRATED WHEN THEY SEE THE HYPOCRISY OF GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS WITH MANDATES ON AMERICAN CITIZENS, BUT HAVING OPEN BORDERS AT THE SOUTHERN BORDER.

AND NOT EVERY ILLEGAL MIGRANT COMING OVER THE OPEN BORDER AT THE SOUTHERN PART OF OUR COUNTRY IS BEING TESTED.

AS WE UNDERSTAND IT NOW, SOME ILLEGAL MIGRANTS THAT ARE BEING APPREHENDED AT THE SOUTHERN BORDER WHO SHOW SOME SYMPTOMS ARE GETTING SOME TESTING.

BUT IT'S WOEFULLY INADEQUATE.

WHAT WE KNOW, AS A RESULT OF THIS OPEN BORDERS POLICY, IS THAT THE WE NOW HAVE OVER 1.3 MILLION ILLEGAL MIGRANTS APPREHENDED AT THE SOUTHERN BORDER SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

THAT'S 420% INCREASE.

IT'S A 21-YEAR HIGH AND YES, A LOT OF THESE ILLEGAL MIGRANTS ARE COMING FROM COUNTRIES WHERE THE DELTA OR LAMDA VARIANT ARE MAJOR HOT SPOTS.

WE ALSO KNOW THERE HAS BEEN A LARGE SPIKE-- AND THIS IS FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY AND BORDER AGENCY BRIEFING THE CONGRESS-- THAT THERE HAS BEEN A SPIKE IN INFECTIONS AMONG THOSE BORDER AGENTS, THOSE BORDER PATROL AGENTS BECAUSE OF THEIR EXPOSURE TO A POPULATION THAT'S HIGHLY VULNERABLE.

THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT HAD ACCESS TO THE VACCINE AND THEY'RE NOT GETTING MANDATORY TESTS.

WHEN I SAY HYPOCRISY, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT WHEN THEY, AS U.S. CITIZENS, ARE RETURNING FROM OVERSEAS.

THEY ARE VACCINATED.

THEY'RE REQUIRED TO GET A NEGATIVE COVID TEST AS A CONDITION OF RETURNING TO THEIR HOME COUNTRY.

BUT THEY SEE AT THE SOUTHERN BORDER 1.3 MILLION ILLEGAL MIGRANTS APPREHENDED AT THE BORDER, NOT TO MENTION THE GETAWAYS.

BUT THOSE INDIVIDUALS NOT MANDATED TO GET A NEGATIVE COVID TEST.

THAT'S A DOUBLE STANDARD, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU CONSIDER THAT POPULATION IS HIGHLY UNVACCINATED AND WE ARE EVEN TALKING ABOUT TESTING PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN VACCINATED WHO ARE U.S. CITIZENS.

>> Renee: I WANT TO MAKE A PIVOT TO AFGHANISTAN.

THIS IS AN ISSUE JUST IN THE COUPLE OF WEEKS BEFORE WE TALKED TO YOU THAT HAS REALLY TAKEN A TURN.

PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD ALSO SET IN PLACE A TIMELINE FOR WITHDRAWAL.

MANY PEOPLE SAY WELL PRESIDENT BIDEN IS JUST FOLLOWING SUIT WITH THAT.

THAT THAT HAS A RARE AGREEMENT BETWEEN A NUMBER 45 AND THE PREVIOUS PRESIDENT.

SO I'M CURIOUS ABOUT YOUR TAKE ON THE DEVELOPMENTS IN AFGHANISTAN.

IS THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION GETTING IT WRONG?

AND YOU HAVE GONE SO FAR AS TO CALL FOR THE RESIGNATION OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY TEAM BECAUSE OF THE FALLOUT FROM AFGHANISTAN.

WHY?

AND DO YOU THINK THAT'S EVEN A POSSIBILITY THAT HIS WHOLE TEAM WOULD BE REMOVED?

>> I HOPE IT'S NOT JUST A POSSIBILITY.

I HOPE IT'S A LIKELIHOOD.

AS A MEMBER OF THE HOUSE FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE, INDEED, I HAVE CALLED FOR THE RESIGNATION OF THE ENTIRE NATIONAL SECURITY TEAM BECAUSE THEY GOT ALL OF THIS TOTALLY WRONG.

AND I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHEN THE HISTORY BOOKS ARE WRITTEN ABOUT THIS SAD EPISODE IN AMERICAN MILITARY HISTORY, THEY'RE GOING TO SAY THAT THIS BOTCHED RETREAT, THIS UNCONDITIONAL AND DISASTROUS RETREAT WAS THE MOST EMBARRASSING CATASTROPHIC AND AVOIDABLE FOREIGN POLICY MISTAKE IN OUR LIFETIMES.

>> Renee: DO YOU BELIEVE PRESIDENT TRUMP WOULD HAVE DONE IT DIFFERENTLY?

>> I WAS CRITICAL OF A DATE CERTAIN ALWAYS.

BUT I HAVE HAD MANY CONVERSATIONS WITH TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS, INCLUDING FORMER SECRETARY POMPEO ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TRUMP WITHDRAWAL POLICY AND THE BIDEN WITHDRAWAL POLICY.

AS A MEMBER OF THE FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE, I WAS IN THE ROOM IN APRIL WHEN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION ANNOUNCED THEIR ANNOUNCED DECISION, THE PRESIDENT'S DECISION, TO HAVE AN UNCONDITIONAL RETREAT FROM AFGHANISTAN ON A DATE CERTAIN OF SEPTEMBER 11, 2021.

AND I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO RESPOND TO THAT ANNOUNCEMENT WITH DIRECTLY TO SECRETARY OF STATE BLINGIN, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE LLOYD AUSTIN AND THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF MILLIE AND WHAT I TOLD THEM INITIALLY, FIRST OF ALL I DISAGREE WITH THE DATE CERTAIN WHETHER FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OR THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, BUT CHOOSING SEPTEMBER 11, I CAN THINK OF 364 PREFERABLE DAYS FROM THAT FROM A SYMBOLISM STANDPOINT BUT MORE TO THE POINT, IT DENIES THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION WITH THE FLEXIBILITY THAT THEY NEEDED OVER THE COURSE OF THE SUMMER TO ADJUST THEIR STRATEGY WHEN IT BECAME TOTALLY OBVIOUS THAT THEIR DECISION OF UNCONDITIONAL RETREAT WAS FAILING AND THE TALIBAN WAS MAKING SO MUCH PROGRESS IN TAKING THAT COUNTRY BACK FROM THE AFGHAN NATIONAL ARM ARMY.

THE OTHER POINT I MADE BACK IN APRIL WAS WHY ARE YOU ABANDONING THE BAGRAM AIR BASE?

WHAT IS THE WISDOM OF DOING THAT?

AND WHAT WE DIDN'T KNOW AT THAT TIME, WHEN WE WERE QUESTIONING THE ADMINISTRATION'S DECISION, WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT THEY WERE GOING TO TOTALLY ABANDON BAGRAM BEFORE THEY HAD EXTRICATED ALL OF THE U.S. CITIZENS, MILITARY AND EQUIPMENT AND NOW WE KNOW THAT $80 BILLION WORTH OF U.S.

TAXPAYER FUNDED EQUIPMENT, MATERIAL, HELICOPTERS, SMALL ARMS, VEHICLES, YOU NOW IN THE POSSESSION OF THE TALIBAN.

THIS IS HOW DISASTROUS THIS IS RENEE.

THERE ARE MORE BLACKHAWK HELICOPTERS IN CUSTODY OF THE TALIBAN THAN BLACKHAWK HELICOPTERS IN CUSTODY OF THE AUSTRALIANS, OUR ALLIES.

THIS IS A TOTAL CATASTROPHE AND WHAT WE WITNESSED OVER THE WEEKEND BECAUSE OF THIS HASTILY DISORDERED RETREAT WAS THE LARGEST JAIL BREAK OF SUICIDAL JIHADIIST TERRORISTS.

BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE OPERATIONAL CONTROL OVER THE SOUTHERN BORDER AND THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY IS REPORTING THAT SOME OF THE ILLEGAL MIGRANTS COMING INTO OUR COUNTRY ARE APPEARING ON THE TERROR WATCH LIST, OUR COUNTRY IS MORE VULNERABLE, THE HOMELAND IS MORE VULNERABLE TODAY THAN WE WERE ON SEPTEMBER 10.

SO I THINK THIS HAS REPERCUSSIONS FAR BEYOND THE AFGHAN PEOPLE.

IT HAS NATURAL SECURITY RAMIFICATIONS AND THAT'S WHY I'M CALLING FOR THE IMMEDIATE RESIGNATION OF THE ENTIRE NATIONAL SECURITY TEAM.

>> Renee: WHOEVER WOULD REPLACE THIS NATIONAL SECURITY TEAM MAY HAVE THE SAME PARADIGM OF THINKING ABOUT MILITARY STRATEGY AS THOSE THAT YOU ARE CALLING FOR THE OUT OF THING, CORRECT?

>> WELL, WE HOPE NOT.

WE HOPE THEY'RE LEARNING FROM THIS TERRIBLE MISTAKE.

YOU ASKED ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF THE TRUMP STRATEGY FOR WITHDRAWAL AND THIS.

THERE IS A PRETTY CLEAR DIFFERENCE.

AND THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT FROM THE TIME THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TOOK OVER IN AFGHANISTAN, THERE WERE 9500 AMERICAN BOOTS ON THE GROUND.

WHEN THEY LEFT OFFICE IN JANUARY OF 2021, THERE WERE ABOUT 2500 BOOTS ON THE GROUND.

AT THAT TIME WAS LESS U.S. TROOP PRESENCE IN AFGHANISTAN THAN THERE ARE IN SPAIN RIGHT NOW.

AND WE WERE NOT SEEING A TALIBAN TAKEOVER.

WHY?

BECAUSE THEY LEVERAGED NATO.

WE HAD ABOUT 5,000 NATO TROOPS, TOTAL TROOP STRENGTH OF ABOUT 7700 BOOTS ON THE GROUND COALITION FORCES IN SUPPORT OF OPERATION RESOLUTE MISSION.

AND RESOLUTION-- RESOLUTE SUPPORT MISSION AND IT WAS THAT WILL TO HAVE A SECURITY FORCE THERE IN BAGRAM AND CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT WAS PROVIDING ASSISTANCE, MILITARY ASSISTANCE TO THE AFGHAN NATIONAL ARMY THAT GAVE THE AFGHAN NATIONAL ARMY THE WILL TO CONTINUE TO BE IN THE FIGHT.

AND IT GAVE THEM THE CAPABILITY OF DETERRING THE TALIBAN.

A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS.

BUT AMERICAN CONTRACTORS IN ADDITION TO AMERICAN MILITARY PERSONNEL WERE PROVIDING THE BASIC MAINTENANCE FOR MUCH OF THE AFGHAN NATIONAL ARMY'S EFFORTS AGAINST THE TALIBAN AND THAT'S WHAT KEPT THE AFGHAN NATIONAL ARMY IN THE FIGHT.

AND IT'S VERY REGRETTABLE TO HEAR THAT OUR COMMANDER IN CHIEF NOW BLAME EVERYBODY EXCEPT THEIR OWN ADMINISTRATION.

>> Renee: QUICKLY ON THIS MATTER BEFORE I MOVE ON TO TALK ABOUT THE CARROLL ACT BEFORE WE RUN OUT OF TIME.

THERE IS A CONCERN, HUMANITARIAN CONCERN ABOUT THOSE WHO HAVE ALLIED THEMSELVES WITH THE U.S., STOOD WITH THE U.S., WHO ARE OUR ALLIES WHO WERE THERE, WHAT ABOUT RESETTLEMENT OF THOSE REFUGEES?

WHERE SHOULD THEY GO?

WHAT ARE THE OPTIONS?

>> YES, WE HAVE FAILED IN OUR OBLIGATION TO HELP MANY OF THESE AFGHANS WHO RISK THEIR LIVES AND IN MANY CASE DIED FOR THE CAUSE OF THEIR OWN COUNTRY IN ASSISTANCE TO THE UNITED STATES AND WE OWE THEM TO HELP THEM GET INTO OUR COUNTRY WITH THESE VISAS AND THE P-1 AND P-2 VISAS AS WELL.

I VOTED FOR THESE SPECIAL IMMIGRANT VISAS BECAUSE IT WOULD SEND A TERRIBLE MESSAGE TO OUR ALLIES AROUND THE WORLD THAT WE ARE GOING TO ABANDON YOU IF YOU HELP US IN YOUR TIME OF NEED.

>> Renee: AND JUST A FEW SECONDS, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE BILL YOU INTRODUCED IN HONOR OF YOUR LATE WIFE CALLED THE CAROL ACT.

CARDIOVASCULAR ADVANCES IN RESEARCH LEGACY ACT.

CAN YOU TALK BRIEFLY ABOUT THIS AND WHERE IT STANDS?

>> 25,000 AMERICANS DIE OF SUDDEN CARDIAC DEATH EF YEAR BECAUSE OF VALVE LAR HEART DISEASE.

MY WIFE WAS ONE OF THOSE LAST YEAR IN THE CASE OF HER SITUATION WAS MY TROA VALVE PROLAPSE.

ONLY .2% OF PEOPLE DIAGNOSED WITH THAT SUFFER SUDDEN CARDIAC DEATH LIKE MY WIFE DID.

OUT OF THIS TERRIBLE TRAGEDY, WE WANT TO HELP.

WE WANT TO RAISE AWARENESS THIS IS A SERIOUS CONDITION AND WE DON'T UNDERSTAND BUT IT AFFECTS YOUNG WOMEN MORE THAN OTHERS.

SO WE NEED MORE RESEARCH.

THE CAROL ACT, IF PASSED, WHEN PASSED, AND WE ARE CONVINCED WE ARE GOING TO GET IT AS IFED, WILL PROVIDE-- PASSED WILL PROVIDE MORE RESEARCH DOLLARS FOR THE NATIONAL HEART LUNG INSTITUTE TO INVESTIGATE THE RISK FACTORS FOR VALVULAR HEART DISEASE.

THIS BILL IS ENDORSED BY THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF CARDIOLOGISTS, ENDORSED BY THE AMERICAN HEART ASSOCIATION, WOMEN'S HEART HEALTH AND WE HAVE 155 BIPARTISANSHIP CO-SPONSORS.

WE HAVE A BILL IN THE SENATE, A COMPANION BILL THAT'S BIPARTISAN, LEADER MITCH McCONNELL WHO KNEW MY WIFE IS LEADING ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.

MY CLASSMATE KIRSTEN DEMOCRAT FROM ARIZONA, HER SISTER PASSED AWAY TRAGICALLY OF THIS AS WELL.

SHE IS OUR LEAD DEMOCRAT.

WE'VE GOT TONS OF MOMENTUM.

DEMOCRAT CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE OF JURISDICTION HAS PROMISED ME A HEARING AND A MARKUP THIS FALL SO WE HAVE TONS OF MOMENTUM AND THE ULTIMATE GOAL IS TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR FAMILIES SO THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO FACE THE SAME TRAGEDY THAT ME AND MY GIRS FACED.

>> Renee: WE THINK OF YOUR BEAUTIFUL LITTLE GIRLS AND WISH THE VERY BEST TO THEM AND TO YOU SIR.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

CONGRESSMAN ANDY BARR.

NEXT TIME ON CONGRESSIONAL UPDATE, CONGRESSMAN BRETT GUTHRIE JOINS US FROM OUR LEXINGTON STUDIOS AS WE CONTINUE OUR INTERVIEWS.

WE HOPE YOU'LL JOIN US AT 6:30 EASTERN, 5:30 CENTRAL FOR CONGRESSIONAL UPDATE.