- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of Think Tank with Steve Adubato has been provided by The Turrell Fund, supporting Reimagine Childcare.

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[MOTIVATIONAL MUSIC] On September 19th, I sat down with the United States Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill.

It's an important conversation about child care, about the future of, the future of democracy and a whole range of issues.

Now, that interview was clearly taped before House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, then Speaker McCarthy was ousted before Republicans decided what to do about the speakership.

Before there was even a speaker.

Now the question becomes how relevant is that conversation?

Well we think it's very relevant, regardless of who the speaker is or is not.

United States Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill.

- We're honored to be joined by the Honorable United States Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill.

Congresswoman, great to have you with us.

- Thanks for having me.

- There are so many issues to talk about, but I wanna prioritize.

We're involved in a longstanding public awareness initiative around accessible, affordable, quality child care.

You have said, "There's a child care crisis and we're about potentially to be falling off the federal funding cliff for child care."

What exactly does that mean, and what role are you playing to keep us from falling off that cliff, please?

- Well, Steve, first of all, you really have been on a public awareness campaign, and I wanna thank you for it.

Because I think, for too many years, this was seen as a problem of moms, they just had to figure it out on their own.

And I can tell you, my oldest just turned 18 this weekend, and I still have nightmares about how awful it was 18 years ago trying to figure out how I was going to get her into quality and affordable child care and get back to work.

And it was awful then; it's worse now.

So what it means when we talk about falling off that child care cliff at the end of the month, that is when federal funding runs out for our country.

You might've heard about some of the fights we're having down here, I'm in Washington, to keep the government open.

That is when the money that we put in to stabilize child care runs out.

And so I have a piece of legislation to keep that money coming, those grants coming, so that we can keep our child care centers open.

And if this doesn't pass, we estimate about 100,000 children in New Jersey will lose access to child care.

And that doesn't even account for all the children whose parents have not been able to find child care for them.

- So Congresswoman, we're taping this at the end of, toward the end of September.

It'll be seen after that.

So I believe you're saying that the debate, the whatever is going on in Congress right now, particularly with the Republicans, who control the House of Representatives, is about the closing down, the shutting down of the government, the funding of child care.

So say this program is seen in mid-October.

Will we already know if we fell off this cliff?

- We'll know.

We'll know because the money will run out by the end of September.

That is when the government funding runs out for the year.

And so we're working desperately to find ways to keep these centers open.

Because if they shut, it's not easy to reopen child care centers.

The level of certification for child care workers that we require if we're gonna leave them with our children, the facilities, and what is required to have the safety requirements of a child care facility, the number of people that need to be working there, especially in infant care, which is very, you know, very expensive and also is very difficult for young, young children, so these requirements all make it very difficult.

If these centers close down, it will be very hard to reopen them.

- Congresswoman Sherrill, do you actually have any opposition to this?

Because every public official on the local, state, and federal government who we've had on, male, female, every guest, child care, accessible, affordable, quality child care, we're all in.

Well, dollars matter beyond what people say.

Is there opposition either publicly or not for the money part of this, the investment part?

Please, Congresswoman.

- I wouldn't say there is necessarily resistance to this program per se, but these are the conversations that, for me, are the most disappointing.

Because I'll tell you, I came down here in one of the most partisan times that our nation has faced, and yet again and again and again, I find those partnerships with people who agree with what I'm trying to do for New Jersey, work on building those broad bipartisan coalitions and getting legislation passed, and that is becoming harder and harder and harder as our speaker seems to be caving more and more and more to extremists in his own party.

And you know, I've asked my Republican colleagues, "Look, work with us.

You don't have to work with the extremists.

We can get stuff done here.

We can still run this government.

And you don't have to listen to the, quite frankly, the crazies who seem to have come to Congress with no intention of governing this nation."

And so this is one of those key areas where there is so much support for this.

It makes sense.

I can tell you I was, you know, everyone from labor unions, to high-end defense manufacturing, to the New Jersey Chamber of Commerce, everyone understands that this is a critical need if we are going to ensure that parents can get back to work, that our economy can function here in New Jersey.

And so there's no opposition.

The opposition just seems to be to actually credibly running the government down here.

- This is something that really struck me: protecting military women and military families.

The impact of the Roe v. Wade overturning by the United States Supreme Court, what is the connection between that historically important decision after the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision allowing for abortions to take place, legal, safe abortions, on military families, particularly women in the military?

And A and B, and you're doing something about it, please.

- So everyone who's joined our military had the understanding that they would have access to reproductive health care, and they would have those baseline protections of Roe if they joined our military before Roe was overturned.

And I will tell you that when you are serving in the military, you receive orders.

And so you don't get to say, "Oh, I'm not going to go serve in Texas because they now have some of the most draconian, anti-choice laws and some of the worst outcomes for women in the country."

You can't say, "I'm in a high-risk pregnancy, so I don't want to go to that state because that puts my life and the life of my unborn child in danger."

- And then, excuse me.

- You have to- - In Alabama, where Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville uses senatorial courtesy powers to delay military promotions are subject to confirmation hearings.

Here's why I'm saying that.

Are senators and other high-level elected officials in certain states, disproportionately Southern, did they have the influence over which women have access and who don't?

- Well, if you were ordered to go to Texas right now, where 120,000 men and women serve, then you don't have access to reproductive health care services in many cases.

So what the military has done is to say, "Look, we, by law, we're not allowed to pay for your abortion, but we can pay for your travel out of state and we can ensure that you are able to leave, that you are given leave so that you can go seek better reproductive health care," as a minimum of what we should do for our service members and their families.

And that is something that Senator Tuberville is blocking, the travel ban for military women, not allowing them to travel for these services.

But not only that, he is also withholding all the promotions for generals and admirals in our military.

And we estimate that by the end of the year, statutorily, that these admirals and generals will be mandatory forced to retire.

So they won't be able to stay on in those positions.

3/4 of our flag officers across the world, serving in positions across the world will be forced to retire with nobody being promoted into those jobs.

- Before we let you go and vote, quick thing.

Two things, one, remind people of your military service, Congresswoman.

- So I went to the Naval Academy and then I served for almost 10 years as a Navy helicopter pilot and as a Russian policy officer.

And during that time, I did serve in Texas.

I did flight training in Corpus Christi, Texas.

And so this is not some theoretical proposition that I am talking about here.

This is something that happens to many of our servicewomen, and they should have that access.

- Last, last, last question, I promise.

We're doing a series called "Decision 2024: Democracy in Danger," no question mark, in danger.

Hyperbole?

- Sadly, I don't think so.

I think we should all be very cognizant of the people across this country who don't believe in our democracy.

Mitt Romney in a recent article laid out what he sees as people who don't share these values and don't believe in the Constitution, and I think we should all be very concerned about that and ensuring that we vote for people who care about this country.

And when they take that oath to the Constitution, they do, as we say in our military oath, they do so freely and without any mental reservations or purposes of evasion.

- And finally, if members of Congress argue that, as the president, former president, Donald Trump, said, "We need to suspend the Constitution," or he's considering doing that.

For those who opt to believe and say that, "We want Donald Trump to be president, regardless of the rule of law, regardless of how these trials play out, and regardless of whether he abides by the Constitutional peaceful transition of power," there's a question here, trust me, "Doesn't matter, we just want Trump," is that part of the danger to democracy?

- That is not a democracy.

That is an authoritarian government.

So yes, that would be a clear danger to democracy.

- We've held Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill too long.

She has a vote to cast.

And Congresswoman, we thank you for taking the time to be with us.

It will not be the last time.

All the best to you and your family and your colleagues.

- Thank you so much.

- Down in Congress doing the people's work.

Thank you, Congresswoman.

- Thank you.

- You got it, I'm Steve Adubato, that's the Congresswoman.

Stay with us.

To see more Think Tank with Steve Adubato programs and to listen to Think Tank with Steve Adubato the Podcast, visit us online at steveadubato.org.

If you would like to express an opinion, email us at info@caucusnj.org.

Find us on Facebook at Facebook.com/steveadubatophd and follow us on Twitter @steveadubato.

- We're now joined by Joaquin Duato who is the Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer of Johnson & Johnson.

Joaquin, thank you so much for joining us.

- Thank you, Steve.

- Lemme disclose that J&J, Johnson & Johnson, has been a long time supporter of public broadcasting and more specifically, of the Caucus Educational Corporation and our healthcare program for many years.

Joaquin, lemme ask you this.

Your background coming into the chairmanship and the CEO position at Johnson & Johnson.

Could you describe it please?

- Thank you, Steve, and let me start by saying that I'm talking from our headquarters in New Brunswick, New Jersey.

The company has been here since it was founded 138 years ago.

So, we're a proud member of the New Jersey Innovation Ecosystem.

A proud contributor to the state.

I am a product of the development that Johnson & Johnson has offered me.

I work in the company for 34 years, and it's the result of the opportunity that company like Johnson & Johnson has given me working in different regions of the world, working in our consumer, in our pharmaceutical, and in our med tech sector, up until getting to the position of CEO.

And it makes me very proud to be able to represent our 130,000 employees, 16,000 of them right here in New Jersey.

- You know, Joaquin, it's interesting you mentioned innovation and it brings up an issue, a topic, that I don't think a lot of people understand.

Bringing a drug to market, if you will.

I'll talk about drug prices in a moment, prescription drug prices in a moment, but talk about the complexity of bringing a drug, regulated by the government, federal government, to market, if you will.

How complex is it?

- It's a complex endeavor.

Some people believe that developing a new medicine is more difficult than to put a man on the moon.

Just to give you an example.

And it's a long process.

It's a multi-decade process, and it requires a significant investment.

Our investment in R&D, as Johnson & Johnson was $14.6 billion.

So, it's a significant amount of money.

We are also a company not only focused on medicines, but also in medical technology.

Medical technology it's very important, especially in surgery, which is one of the most common medical interventions.

So, science is complex and it requires a lot of attention, and time, and investment, in order to be able to develop a medicine or a medical technology that is going to impact patient care.

Let me give you an example of one treatment modality that we are working on developing right here in New Jersey, is cell therapy.

Have you heard about cell therapy, Steve?

- Is it cell therapy?

- Cell therapy.

- Not T-cell, not is it T-cell therapy, or just cell therapy?

Because I'm not sure to understand it differently.

- Yeah, in this modality of cell therapy, what we do is to reprogram your T-cells in order to be able to recognize and attack cancer cells.

Specifically in this case, in hematological cancers like multiple myeloma.

So, we have seen tremendous results utilizing this cell therapy and we manufacture cell therapy right here in New Jersey.

So, that's an example of how science is progressing in a way that we are able now to address some diseases that were considerable uncurable, convert them into potentially chronic diseases.

- Let me shift gears and then I'll come back to the issue of drug prices in a moment.

But it's interesting how you talk about cancer and treatment of cancer and therapeutics that can be helpful potentially, but that's something we know exists.

Cancer, it's a disease that affects so many, millions and millions of Americans and family members.

But when something happens like a global pandemic, what happens in an organization, in a corporation, like Johnson & Johnson, particularly as it relates to vaccine, the race to vaccines, others, competitors and I don't even know if you're competitors at that point, Joaquin.

I don't know if everyone comes together.

We don't understand that.

Could you describe what COVID was like for your universe at that time?

- Yeah, great question.

Look, COVID had many aspects for us.

The most important one was that when we saw the pandemic coming, we step it up and we develop a vaccine ourselves.

And we dedicated thousands of people across the company to be able to develop and manufacture a vaccine that has been mostly used in low resource countries, and we are very proud of that.

Organizationally, I'm very proud too of the fact that we were able to continue the supply of our lifesaving medicines and medical devices along the world.

So, we had thousands of people in our supply chain going to work every day in order to be able to deliver those medicines and medical devices.

And overall, it made our company more sympathetic and it make us understand better that we are vulnerable and I think that helps us be more human overall.

And obviously, a big effect of the pandemic was that we accelerated technology and ways of working that we didn't have before.

So, that's been a change for our organization too.

- Joaquin, how do you believe, and I asked so many people this, on our public broadcasting programming, and also our Lessons in Leadership program, our sister program, and I'm fascinated by this, because I know the pandemic changed me as a leader on so many levels of a small not-for-profit production company and a leadership development company, our company outside of public broadcasting.

How do you believe COVID, the pandemic, has changed you as a leader?

- Clearly, I told you before, Steve, I think it has made us more human.

It has made us more understanding of the vulnerability.

It has made me more prepared to deal with uncertainty.

So, that's something that COVID has brought into me as a leader, but also, in the overall Johnson & Johnson organization.

It created a higher commitment with our mission.

It made it clear what an impact we can have in the world.

- Now, let's talk about drug pricing.

To those who say in Congress, consumers, others, drug prices are simply too high, big pharma, and that means a lot of things to different people.

It's big pharma, they are the ones that they're making profits that make no sense and we need to reduce the prices of prescription drugs.

Talk to those folks.

- I would say, look, our goal as a healthcare company, as Johnson & Johnson, is to be able to provide affordable, quality medical devices and pharmaceuticals to all Americans.

And I have to underscore, we are part of an ecosystem.

It's not only about the pharmaceutical companies, but it's also about the doctors, it's about the hospital, it's about the government, it's about all of us working together in order to have that goal.

If you step back for a second and you look at the healthcare costs, Steve, pharmaceuticals is 15% of the total healthcare costs.

So, when you think about cost- - 15 percent?

- 15, one-five, 15 of the total healthcare costs.

We need to also think about the 85% remaining.

Now, is there an issue of affordability, especially, in our senior citizens that are in Medicare in this country?

Yes, there is.

And I can tell you that we are a company that is always looking for the long-term and to look for solutions that involve constructively all players.

And we are very much willing to work with anybody that is willing to try to lower the out-of-pocket costs that the patients in the US, especially, in Medicare have.

So, that's something that you will always find Johnson & Johnson ready to collaborate, ready to do our part.

- It's interesting, Johnson & Johnson is a brand everyone knows and has they have their own respective perception of and what's curious to me is as we speak right now at the end of September, 2023, there's literally a brand change.

We're not gonna turn this into a commercial for J&J, but there's a brand change, after 135 years.

Is it the logo that's changed?

What's changed?

- The major changes, Steve, is that now we are a focused healthcare company.

So, we are focused exclusively in medicines and medical technologies.

And we have separated our consumer company, the company that has the products that people know us for, like Tylenol, Band-aids and shampoo in a new public company, which is an independent company called Kenvue.

So now, Johnson & Johnson is focused in research and development, in innovation, in healthcare through medicines and medical technology.

So, that's a big change for us.

And that means that we are gonna be able to concentrate all our efforts in trying to solve some of the difficult diseases, tough healthcare challenges that still remain unsolved.

- You know, you talked about the 15% of the overall healthcare costs, which is obviously, a decades long issue in terms of healthcare costs in this nation and how they're taking up a greater and greater percentage of the gross national product.

It's not a new issue, but you talked about the other 85%.

And what I'm curious about this, Joaquin.

The future of healthcare, not just in terms of innovation, and new drugs, and new therapies, and new treatment, all of them important.

Affordability, incredibly important.

But how do you believe COVID has changed, not just your company, not just pharma and related industries, but the overall healthcare universe, the other 85%, how do you believe COVID has changed forever the healthcare paradigm?

- Yeah, COVID has had an important impact in society in many different ways, not only healthcare.

One of the biggest impacts is the acceleration of the use of technology.

So now, we are seeing more telemedicine.

We are seeing that we are doing our appointments online.

And overall we are seeing an enhanced use of data analytics, artificial intelligence, machine learning to drive insights not only in better treatments to your point, but also, in how we can manage the overall end-to-end patient journey to improve the quality of care.

So, I think with that one positive outcome of COVID it's been the acceleration at all levels of the use of technology and that will be positive in my view to increase the quality and reduce waste in healthcare.

- One more item on COVID and the way we work.

And if I'm not mistaken, your company has 150,000 employees throughout the world?

Is that correct?

- Correct.

Yeah, now with the separation we have 130,000.

- Okay, so J&J has 130,000.

So, this is what I'm curious about.

Is it fair to say that J&J, that Johnson & Johnson, has been engaged in remote communication well before the rest of us were engaged in remote communication, because your folks are all over the world?

- Yes, certainly.

I mean, we were always working, you know, connected with all our affiliates around the world.

I believe that the common use of Zoom, or Teams, or other technologies has been vastly accelerated during the pandemic.

So now, it's more part of the operating mode, but we always have had different ways of communicating with our global affiliates.

- You've been listening to Joaquin Duato who is the Chairman of the board and Chief Executive Officer of Johnson & Johnson.

130,000 employees now as he explained the separation with this new evolution of the organization.

Joaquin, I cannot thank you enough for joining us.

We appreciate your time.

All the best.

- Thank you, Steve.

And look, I want to put a final word about New Jersey.

New Jersey has been our home for the 138 years.

It's a great place for life science company to be.

It's incredibly diverse, very strong STEM education and academic institutions.

And I believe that New Jersey is the right place for life sciences to flourish.

And we are in a very competitive position versus other states in the country and also globally, to make New Jersey a global hub for innovation.

Thank you, Steve.

- Well said, thanks Joaquin.

I'm Steve Adubato, that's Joaquin Duato.

We'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] Think Tank with Steve Adubato has been a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by The Turrell Fund, supporting Reimagine Childcare.

RWJBarnabas Health.

New Jersey Institute of Technology.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

The New Jersey Education Association.

IBEW Local 102.

Operating Engineers, Local 825.

And by Veolia.

Promotional support provided by Northjersey.com and Local IQ.

And by The New Jersey Business & Industry Association.

(hands clapping) (drums banging) (fingers snapping)