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[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi everyone, I'm Steve Adubato.

It is our honor to welcome United States Representative Tom Malinowski from the Seventh Congressional District.

Congressman, great to have you with us.

- Great to be here, thank you.

- So I'm gonna make this clear to everyone.

I'm gonna say it a couple times in case you catch us at different times.

There are races across this nation for United States Congress, the lower house, as well as US Senate.

One of the key races in the nation, not just the state, is the seven congressional district with incumbent Tom Malinowski and his Republican opponent, former State Senator Tom Kean.

Here's the deal.

We reached out for Senator Kean, I did personally, our team did as well, there's been no response.

There has been consistently no response from the senator or his campaign to participate in any public discourse around these issues.

It's a fact, it's not an opinion.

I'm gonna remind folks if they're wondering where's the other side.

Congressman, why do you believe it's been so difficult to engage your Republican opponent, Tom Kean, in a public discussion, debate, whatever you want to call it?

- I don't know, I don't know.

I find it bizarre.

I think it is a basic fundamental duty if you are seeking to represent people, that you talk to people, that you answer their questions directly, at public meetings, at town hall meetings, and of course through the press.

I have always tried to make myself accessible.

I sometimes get tough questions, which is your job to ask me.

I simply don't understand why someone would even want this job and refuse to do what I think is a basic responsibility of the job, but it's the choice he's made, I think it'll disadvantage him in this campaign.

Maybe he's hoping that all the money coming in from these big Republican super PACs for TV ads will be enough to carry him across the finish line, but I think the voters of my district are very engaged politically, very, very educated.

I think they want a representative who's gonna be accessible to them and he's not that.

- Congressman, your TV ads, the one that I see, that many have seen, and you've spent a fair amount of money on media in this campaign, they target Tom Kean saying that, "He would be with the former president, Donald Trump under any circumstances, regardless of whatever."

Why is that an issue when we're dealing with inflation, when we're dealing with healthcare issues post if you will, the pandemic, while there are so many while there's a potential recession hitting us?

Why is that an issue when there are so many issues directly impacting, and problems directly impacting citizens of our state and nation?

- First of all, I think the economy is the number one issue in this election.

And I've been talking about it, I'm gonna continue to talk about it.

I am running first and foremost on our record in the United States Congress in the last year in bringing the economy back from the dead from the pandemic and now dealing with the cost of living issues that people are facing, by passing legislation to lower the cost of prescription drugs, by passing the TRIPS Act to to fix our broken supply chains, particularly for advanced manufacturing.

But at the same time, you cannot ignore the fact that there's something abnormal happening in our politics right now, that there's a major political party that is being taken over by people who are are not traditional Republicans, by people who are willing to use lies and violence to hold onto power as president Trump tried- - But that's not Tom Kean, respectfully, I'm sorry for interrupting Congressman, but Tom Kean has been a moderate Republican.

If you will, his father, Tom Kean, one of the most respected and revered governors in the history of this nation, a moderate, he's not part of that wing of the party.

- His father's not part of that wing of the party.

But as I point out in my ad, Tom Kean Jr. in the Republican primary, in our race this year said in his own words that he is running to support the Trump agenda, that he would "have Trump's back no matter what Trump does."

So it's very, very important you understand, I'm not accusing him of this, I'm simply pointing out what he said himself when he was running in the Republican primary.

Virtually every other senior Republican elected official in New Jersey has at one point or another tried to distance themselves from the MAGA wing of the party.

When the Republican National Committee famously or infamously said that the violence on January 6th was just an expression of normal political discourse, virtually every other Republican in New Jersey said, "That's not me."

- What did Tom Kean say about January 6th?

- Nothing, nothing.

And it's one reason I think he doesn't want to come on your show because I assume you would ask him these questions.

- I would.

- And he doesn't, perhaps he's afraid of saying anything and he's afraid of offending moderates, he's afraid of offending the MAGA crowd, but he either believes in this MAGA nonsense or he doesn't and he's simply pandering to it because he's afraid to stand up to this force in the party.

And I think that's important to bring out because this isn't a game.

The survival of our democracy very much hangs in the balance right now.

We can agree or disagree about issues like what the corporate tax rate should be, how much environmental regulation there should be.

If I lose an argument on those issues, I'm not losing my country.

But if we elect people who are willing to use violence and lies to overturn election results, that's a very, very different situation.

- So we're talking to United States Congressman Tom Malinowski, the Seventh Congressional District, one of the most significant races in the nation that could in fact directly impact the balance of power in the United States Congress with Democrats in control right now and Republicans with a chance to take over the lower house.

That being said, if you're wondering why Congressman Malinowski's Republican opponent, former Senator Tom Kean's not with us, I reached out, our team reached out, no response.

It was not a rejection of appearing on our program, it was no response just to clarify.

And if you want to know, you can reach out to the former senator himself and his campaign, they can tell you why they're not appearing.

Let me ask you this, the issue of abortion, the Roe V. Wade overturning by the United States Supreme Court is a major issue in this campaign and in this nation now because?

- It's important to us because we're all Americans.

I may live in New Jersey, you may live in New Jersey, but we all have people we love, people we care about, who live and work and study in other states.

And for half the states in this country, this is the way this is going right now, to be passing laws that treat women and doctors as criminals for making healthcare decisions that were perfectly legal in this country for 50 years, treating potentially women as criminals for having miscarriages that might be mischaracterized as abortions, potentially even prohibiting women from crossing state lines to get healthcare.

Of course that's an issue for all of us, including those of us who live in New Jersey.

And then number two, yeah, the Supreme Court said, it's just up to the states, but the Republican party in Congress has made clear that if they take back the majority, they are going to try to pass a nationwide ban on abortion that will override our law in New Jersey.

- Well, hold on, Tom Kean said he is pro-choice.

- He has said that he is pro-choice at times but he voted, on his last day in the State Senate this January, he voted against codifying Roe V. Wade to protect women in New Jersey.

So I don't care what he says, I care about what he does.

And by the way, in terms of what he says, during the Republican primary, he put up a kind of special conservative website that was kind of hidden from the public in which he said that he would, "fight to protect the sanctity of life in Congress", that he would oppose the legislation the Democrats that put forward in New Jersey and in the Congress to codify Roe V. Wade to protect women across this country and in New Jersey.

So again, here, there's a very clear distinction.

I'm for codifying Roe V. Wade for the country, he voted against codifying Roe V. Wade for New Jersey.

- Okay to be clear, I would've asked former State Senator Tom Kean that exact question about publicly being pro-choice and how the Congressman described his vote, his last vote in the Senate to not support the codifying of Roe V. Wade in the state of New Jersey and his statements that the Congressman just referred to.

We weren't able to do that because the Senator opted not to join us.

One more question on the, I'll go back to the issue of inflation, the Inflation Reduction Act, many have argued that inflation has gotten worse under the Biden administration.

To what degree do you hold President Biden responsible, his policies responsible for the terrible situation regarding the cost of living in this state, in this nation, inflation?

Some of it has to fall at the feet of the White House.

- Look, it's perfectly understandable that people hold the president in power and the Congress in power, including me, responsible for solving this problem.

We're there, we're the decision makers, I accept that responsibility.

We had a situation two years ago in this country where we had tens of millions of people unemployed.

Almost every small business in the towns I represent was shutdown because of the COVID pandemic, and most of the economists in the country were saying, if you don't do something big and fast, those jobs are not coming back, those businesses are dead.

So we did something big and fast.

We spent a huge amount of money and we were successful in saving those jobs and those businesses.

Now we have a responsibility to save the paychecks that go with those jobs by dealing with the inflation that came about because we brought back consumer spending before bringing back the supply chains that supply us with all the stuff that we want to buy.

So what are we doing?

We passed the CHIPS and Science Act to deal with- - Explain everyone what CHIPS means.

- Microchips, which I think most of us are beginning to recognize, it's like the oil of the 21st century, everything's powered by microchips.

And one reason, for example, why cars have been been so expensive in the last year is that any new car today is made with hundreds of microchips and there's a huge shortage and they're not made in America anymore.

So we passed this bill to bring the manufacturing of that critical technology and others home to the United States.

We passed legislation to lower the cost of prescription drugs.

Remember, this is something President Trump ran on in 2016, let Medicare negotiate lower drug prices.

He didn't get it done, we just did.

Overwhelmingly popular in the United States 'cause it's the right thing to do.

Keeping health insurance costs under control which we also just did and- - A few seconds left Congressman, go ahead.

- So again, I think this is a difference, like we're doing stuff.

We're passing legislation that actually is gonna lower the cost of living for a lot of folks and deal with these supply chain problems that are the cause of this inflation.

My opponent, the Republicans obviously they're running on inflation, but I can't find anywhere, on their websites, of course they don't do interviews, what they're gonna do about it.

It almost seems to me that they'd rather run on the problem than propose a solution.

- In that spirit because we weren't able to cover a whole range of issues, including gun safety, a range of issues, childcare, I'm gonna ask folks in post production if we could put up the congressman's website of his campaign to find out exactly where he stands on those issues.

If people can go on to former Senator Kean's website to find out where he stands on the issues.

Once again, we were hoping to have Tom Kean Jr. join us.

We were not able to do that because he and his campaign opted not to respond to our request.

Congressman Malinowski, we thank you for joining us.

All the best.

- Thank you.

And I'm happy to come on any time you like.

- Thank you.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

(grand music) - [Announcer] To watch more State of Affairs with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- We have themm back by very popular demand.

Julie Roginsky is Democratic Strategist and President of Optimus Communications, and Mike DuHaime, Republican Strategist and CEO of MAD Global Strategy Group.

Now, Mike, is is M-A-D or MAD, M-A-D?

- MAD, MAD.

- Yeah.

- It's my initials.

It coulda been angry.

It coulda been pleasant or happy, but MAD happens to be my initials, so it works.

- But Julie, even though you and Mike do not- - MAD good strategy, right?

- Yeah, but he's very rarely mad.

He's got a very even demeanor.

All right, look: people are seeing this on the back end of an interview we just did with Congressman Malinowski and the Seventh Congressional District.

He's the Democrat.

His Republican opponent, Tom Kean, Junior, opted not to participate.

They didn't even tell us they weren't gonna participate.

They just never responded.

Tom, let me ask you.

Excuse me, not Tom.

He's not with us.

Mike, let me ask you.

You're not here to defend Tom Kean, Junior, but what the heck does it mean when a campaign opts not to participate in public discourse?

- Well, I think it means he feels he's on a good track right now toward winning.

Tom is obviously, I think viewers of your show knows, one point race last time, and after redistricting is about 30,000 more Republicans put in the district, a bunch of Democrats taken outta the district, and the political environment's a lot better.

Donald Trump was on the top of the ticket last time.

It's Joe Biden's midterm this time.

I mean, all of that screams that Tom Kean should win this election.

I just think it's a strategy that he seems to be employing right now, which is to talk kinda directly to the voters through his advertising, through his campaigning, and not through the press, so so far, the polling I've seen looks like he's doing well, so we'll see if the strategy bears fruit.

- Appreciate it, Mike.

Julie, we have this crazy idea here that Democracy at a Crossroads, which is an ongoing series, actually requires, regardless of where you are, respectfully, Mike, in the polls, that you actually participate in public dialogue, and we don't have a horse in the race.

Both of you know that.

We just ask straight-up questions.

The former senator chooses not to participate 'cause he thinks he's gonna win.

Whether that's right or not, I don't know.

What does that mean for the small "D" democratic system of governing and electing people?

- Well, it means that Tom Kean doesn't wanna answer questions about small "D" democratic governing because I assume you'd ask him his views on Former President Trump.

I assume you'd ask him his views on January 6th.

I assume you'd ask him his views on Lindsey Graham's new proposal to ban abortion Federally.

- I would.

- I'm sure you would, and those are all questions Tom Kean doesn't wanna answer 'cause those are all questions he knows won't help him in the Seventh District this November.

He obviously can't say, "Yes, I fully support Donald Trump," although he did say that previously because he needs independent voters in his district to vote for him.

He obviously can't say, "Yes, I am against a woman's right to choose," even though he voted that way when he voted in the legislature recently, so the best thing that Tom Kean can do, and it's not a bad strategy for him.

Look, I tip my hat to him, so- - And Democrats have used it before as well, but go ahead.

- Of course, yeah, I mean, listen, I tip my hat to him as a strategist.

I would say to him, of course, I mean, the best thing for him to do is to avoid hard questions from you guys and hope nobody brings this up on the campaign trail, but what does this mean for small "D" democracy?

Not too much, not anything good, unfortunately.

- I will say Tom's been in public office for 20 years.

It's not like he doesn't have a record.

It's not like reporters have never got a chance to ask him questions before.

He was Minority Leader of the Republican State Senate Caucus, so there are a lotta voter, and he ran last time, so it's not like voters don't know- - Yeah, but here's, Mike, I'm sorry for interrupting.

Here's the only problem with that, Mike.

He has said publicly in his record that he's pro-choice, but when there was a vote, his last vote in the state senate in New Jersey when he was there, was to codify Roe V. Wade in terms of making a woman's right to a legal abortion in the state law.

He voted against it.

That was not in his public record, and unless you're saying, "Look at that record," because I think you're implying that his record before that.

It's not about that issue.

It's about consistency.

He has been a moderate, and this is not about the Seventh Congressional District.

It's about a larger issue.

Tom Kean, Junior, has been a moderate, a respected moderate in the legislature.

His dad, Tom Kean, Senior, no governor more respected than him, but there are questions, Julie, about where are you now?

What do you stand for now?

And the connection to the Make America Great crowd and to Former President Trump, I'm sure he doesn't wanna talk about, but is that part of his record, Julie, or is part of recent rhetoric?

- Well, is it part of his record?

I mean, I don't think he's ever voted (giggles) for Trump, but he has certainly supported Trump.

I mean, maybe he did vote for Trump in the last election.

That's a great question.

I have no idea who he supported in 2020 or in 2016.

That's a wonderful question to ask him, but the reality is he will be in Congress if he is successful this November, and he will be voting on issues that presumably, if he's successful and other Republicans are successful, Speaker Kevin McCarthy, if Republicans take control, will be putting forward.

Among those will probably be a ban on reproductive freedom.

Some of those will be voting rights issues that will help Former President Trump not just cover up his record from four years ago for the last four years but also presumably help him and others like him subvert our democracy further.

Those are all legitimate questions that I think the next congressman from any district needs to answer, and certainly one who wants to displace an existing congressman who's got a great record on some of these issues that I think voters in the Seventh District would probably agree with.

- And Mike, also, Tom Kean's view, Malinowski's view, Malinowski shared his view on those who protested and invaded, if you will, the insurrection of January 7th.

You spoke; Mike, you've been more than clear and consistent about civil discourse, about how horrific the events of January were.

You do that.

Chris Christie does that, who you worked for very closely.

Is it wrong to expect us that Tom Kean, Junior, just has a dialogue about January?

so important to our democracy.

Fair to say, Mike?

- Yeah, no doubt.

I mean, this is something that, you know, I've tried to be clear on in terms of the big lie and Trump lying to assuage his ego and save his own, I don't know, save the perception that he has of himself, I guess, and so I think it is incumbent on Republicans to be clear and kinda speak truth to power over these times.

- You've been doing that for a long time, Mike.

- Yeah, and I think, you know, as a behind-the-scenes operator that you need to do that behind the scenes as well as now publicly, as well as you take a role in public life.

I don't think there's any reason to try to be elected or try to have influence in public life if you won't stand up for what you believe at times, but I think, you know, what Tom is looking at here is frankly, not everyone in the press is fair.

Not everyone in the press gives even-handed questions and lets you answer.

There's a lotta gotcha out there, and I think Tom looks at this, as do other elected officials, to basically say, "You know, if I don't win, I can't do anything, so right now, I have to win if I want to actually impact change and impact America, so this is a strategy to win, and then when I win, I can have the positive impact that I hope to have," and that's what I think the strategy he's doing.

Ultimately, you need to win if you wanna govern.

- Yeah, PS, if you wanna check out Julie and Mike, check them out in the Star-Ledger and on NJ.com.

"Friendly Fire," I believe, is the name of your column, and it's compelling, interesting, and I learn from it every time I read it.

Julie, let me ask you: election integrity moving forward, meaning respecting the outcome of an election win, lose, or whatever.

Trust me, I been on both ends.

As you know, back in the day, I won a race for the state legislature and then lost one two years later.

The results are the results unless you believe there's something nefarious going on that's much deeper than who voted and how they voted.

Julie, how important is the issue of election integrity as an issue in a congressional race?

- It's extraordinarily important.

It's important an issue for dogcatcher, never mind for Congress or president, anything in between.

I mean, look- - I did not run for dogcatcher; I just wanna clarify that, but I do love- - We don't have dogcatchers in New Jersey, but I think we actually should because we don't have enough layers of government in New Jersey probably (inaudible) dogcatcher.

- Yes.

- Look, I think the reality is this: sometimes you win, and Mike and I have been on both sides of it as well as people have run campaigns.

Sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose.

There has to be a winner, and there has to be a loser every time.

Just because you don't win doesn't mean that this wasn't a fair process, and when you hear stories about Republicans across the country saying they're not gonna respect the outcome of an election before the election even takes place, I mean, you have Republicans now saying that they're not necessarily going to respect the outcome of their own elections that haven't even taken place yet.

That says to me we're really on the cusp of something incredibly dangerous, and I don't wanna overstate things, but I actually was in southern Germany this summer and so spent a lot of time doing a little 1930s Nazi trail, and I'm not equating anybody to Nazis here, but there are incredible parallels between subverting democracy, between chipping away at democracy, between chipping away at the integrity of the press, between chipping away at the integrity of your opponents.

With what was happening in the 1930s across Europe and what we're seeing today, I'm not suggesting it's gonna result in genocide or World War III, but I am suggesting that there are incredible parallels here that should be concerning to anybody who knows anything about history.

- I'm gonna give Mike a chance to respond, - Yeah, we need to, ultimately, people need to respect the results and the will of the voters, and everyone stood up and said, "I know how many votes come outta Philadelphia and how many votes come outta Milwaukee and home many votes come outta Detroit," and Donald Trump actually did better in those cities in 2020 did, and then in 2016, he lost in the more moderate suburban areas outside of Atlanta.

He lost places like Morris County in New Jersey.

He lost those versions of Morris County in other states.

We have to stand up and admit when we lose, that's how we go forward, whether it's Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, or John Adams when he walked away.

I mean, that is a core of our democracy, is ultimately, the loser accepting the defeat and hopefully, the winner being gracious and governing ultimately, hopefully, in a bipartisan fashion going forward.

- Real quick, got about 30 seconds left, fair to say, Julie, that President Biden's track record, his lack of popularity, the failures his administration has had, in spite of some recent legislation, that that is an issue in this campaign, not just in the Seventh District, but across the nation?

- I don't think it's failures.

I think it's a failure to communicate.

I don't think it's policy failures at all.

I think the fact that the president has not done an excellent job in communicating his successes, it's dragging Democrats down across the board, but look, it's the economy, stupid.

It always will be, and as much as I wish we could talk about reproductive freedom or democracy at stake, which I think are also, not also, which I think are the paramount issues, especially democracy in peril, is the paramount issue, the fear for me as a Democrat is that of course, people tend to vote on pocketbook issues, especially in midterms, and look, people think the economy's not doing so hot.

- By the way, when Julie says, "It's the economy, stupid," she's not referring to me.

She's quoting the great James Carville, who said that about a Bill Clinton campaign.

Mike, is that a fact?

- If you wanna believe that, Steve, I'll let you believe that, but go ahead.

(Mike laughing) - But why?

Julie.

- I do think it's a fact.

I think while Biden had a better summer, and gas prices have gotten down a little, you know, not being terrible is not the same as being good.

It's still gonna be a referendum on Biden.

- That's Mike.

That's Julie.

They're terrific, "Friendly Fire," and even though Julie's just being mean to me, look, we'll see, (laughs) see you next time.

Oh, that's the end of the show, right?

See you next time, everyone.

- [Narrator] State of Affairs with Steve Adubato Is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by Holy Name.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

New Jersey Institute of Technology.

Veolia, Operating Engineers, Local 825.

Eastern Atlantic States Regional Council of Carpenters.

The Turrell Fund, supporting Reimagine Childcare.

The New Jersey Economic Development Authority.

Choose New Jersey.

And by these public spirited organizations, individuals and associations committed to informing New Jersey citizens about the important issues facing the Garden State.

And by Employers Association of New Jersey.

Promotional support provided by AM970 The Answer.

And by The New Jersey Business & Industry Association.

(hands clapping) (drums banging) (fingers snapping)