♪ ♪ >> Crossley: WELCOME TO "BASIC BLACK."

SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR BROADCAST AND OTHERS OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER.

I AM CALLIE CROSSLEY, HOST OF "UNDER THE RADAR", 89.7.

TONIGHT, A SHOT IN THE ARM.

COMMUNITIES OF COLOR APPROACH THE COVID-19 VACCINE WITH HESITANCY AND HOPE.

WE LIKE YOU ARE DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS OF THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC AND ARE TAKING PRECAUTIONS, WE ARE WORKING WITH LIMITED STAFF AND OUR GUESTS ARE JOINING US REMOTELY.

BUT FIRST, AND UPDATE ON WEDNESDAY'S ARMED INSURRECTION AT THE U.S.

BUT FIRST, AN UPDATE ON WEDNESDAY'S ARMED INSURRECTION AT THE US CAPITAL.

A VIOLENT ATTEMPT TO STOP THE FORMAL CERTIFICATION OF PRESIDENT ELECT BIDEN'S WIN.

RIOTERS BROKE INTO THE BUILDING, SHATTERING GLASS DOORS, AND RUMMAGING THROUGH DESKS AND OFFICES.

THE RAMPAGE FORCED MEMBERS OF CONGRESS TO HIDE BEHIND PEWS AND IN OFFICES AND LEFT FIVE DEAD.

SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, GBH CENTER FOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING, GBH NEWS, PHILLIP MARTIN IS HERE WITH AN ANALYSIS OF THE IMPACT ON COMMUNITIES OF COLOR.

HELLO, PHILLIP.

>> HELLO, CALLIE, HOW ARE YOU?

>> SO GIVE US HOW YOU SEE THIS.

WE'RE STILL GETTING A RESPONSE FROM MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, BUT THE BROADER PICTURE OF HOW IT IMPACTS FOLKS OF COLOR AND HOW THEY'RE LOOKING AT IT.

>> YOU HEARD THE JUXTAPOSITION OF HOW POLICE WOULD HAVE TREATED BLACK LIVES MATTER DEMONSTRATORS.

THAT'S A FACT.

IT SIMPLY AFFIRMED FOR BLACK PEOPLE WHAT BLACK PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN SAYING, THAT POLICE TREAT BLACK PEOPLE AND OTHER PEOPLE OF COLOR DIFFERENTLY THAN THEY TREAT WHITE PEOPLE WHEN IT COMES TO SO-CALLED LAW AND ORDER.

BUT IT CONFIRMED FOR MANY WHITE PEOPLE WHAT BLACK PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN SAYING, THAT TREATMENT IS DISPARATE.

I THINK IF WE GO BACK TO THE EVENTS OF THE OTHER DAY, EXTRAORDINARY EVENTS, EVENTS THAT WOULD BE CALLED, IN A LEGAL SENSE, SEDITION, A TERM THAT IS USUALLY USED ONLY IN AN IDEOLOGICAL SENSE AND USED ONLY IN THE PAST FOR THE PLAQUE BLACK PANTHER PARTY AND OTHERS WHO CHALLENGED THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.

BUT WHAT WE SAW WAS A REAL ACT OF SEDITION, ATTEMPTS TO OVERTURN NOT JUST THE CERTIFICATION, BUT AN ENTIRE BODY OF THE CONGRESS ITSELF TO BASICALLY NOT JUST TO DISRUPT BUT TO CREATE A DIFFERENT FRAME.

AND WHAT YOU HAD HERE WERE THE CAPITOL POLICE, ITS LEADERSHIP AT LEAST, ACCEPTING THE WORD OF THESE DEMONSTRATORS, WHICH THEY PERCEIVED AS A NONTHREAT.

THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE-- THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED HERE.

THEY WERE PERCEIVED AS A NONTHREAT, CALLIE.

>> Crossley: PHILLIP, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE MASSACHUSETTS CITIZENS, ALL THOSE WHO WERE INVOLVED?

>> CALLIE, YOU HEARD ANDREW LELLING, PERHAPS, THE OTHER DAY, THE U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THIS AREA, WHO SAID IF INDIVIDUALS WERE INVOLVED IN THIS ACT OF SEDITION, RETURNING TO MASSACHUSETTS, THEY COULD POSSIBLY FACE CRIMINAL CHARGES BASED ON ANY NUMBER OF REASONS.

THE TAPE THAT PEOPLE WILL BE GOING OVER, LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS WILL BE GOING OVER, OVER THE NEXT FEW DAYS-- AND MONTHS, PERHAPS.

SO MANY OF THESE PEOPLE COULD FACE CHARGES.

>> Crossley: WELL, THE PRESIDENT MAY BE IMPEACHED?

IS THAT THE LAST WORD ON THIS?

>> UNLIKELY.

THERE WILL BE AN ATTEMPT, I THINK, TO IMPEACH HIM.

DON'T FORGET, YOU DO NOT HAVE A SENATE RIGHT NOW THAT WOULD POSSIBLY, EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE SOME, LIKE MITT ROMNEY WHO WOULD PROBABLY AGREE TO IMPEACHMENT, THE SENATE IS STILL, UNTIL THE 20th, IN THE HANDS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND MITCH McCONNELL, DESPITE HIS FALLING OUT WITH TRUMP.

HE HAS NOT FALLEN OUT WITH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, WHICH 45%, BY THE WAY, IN A RECENT POLL, AGREED WITH THOSE WHO TRIED TO TAKE OVER, IN FACT, DID TAKE OVER THE CAPITOL BUILDING THE >> Crossley: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, PHILLIP, FOR THE UPDATE.

>> THANK YOU, CALLIE.

>> Crossley: NOW ON TO OUR MAIN DISCUSSION, COMMUNITIES OF COLOR HAVE SUFFERED A PAINFUL HISTORY OF MEDICAL MISTREATMENT AND CURRENT REALITY OF HEALTHCARE INEQUALITY.

PLENTY OF REASON TO BE SKEPTICAL OF THE COVID-19 VACCINES NOW BEING ADMINISTERED HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS AND AROUND THE COUNTRY.

BUT EVEN WITH SO MUCH TO GAIN FROM VACCINE PROTECTION CAN THESE COMMUNITIES GET PAST A LEGACY OF FEAR AND DISTRUST?

JOINING US, DR. HOLLY OH, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER AT THE DIMOCK CENTER, EPIDEMIOLOGIST AND FITS, DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES, DR. JONES IS THE PAST PRESIDENT OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC HEALTH ASSOCIATION, DR. VANESSA NORTHINGTON GAMBLE, UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR OF MEDICAL HUMANITIES AT GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY WHO IS INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED FOR HER EXPERTISE IN THE HISTORY OF AMERICAN MEDICINE, RACIAL AND ETHNIC DISPARITIES IN HEALTHCARE AND DR. CASSANDRA PIERRE, THE ACTING HOSPITAL EPIDEMIOLOGIST AT BOSTON MEDICAL CENTER, THIS SE ALSO AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR AT THE BOSTON UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE, THE MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC HEALTH PROGRAMS.

WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Crossley: AND I WANT TO START WITH YOU, CASSANDRA BECAUSE TWO OF YOU HAVE HAD THE VACCINE AND THE OTHER TWO OF YOU ARE LOOKING FORWARD A TO IT.

AND ALL OF YOU ARE YOU ARE MEDICAL DOCTORS.

I WANT TO PUT THAT ON THE TABLE.

STARTING WITH YOU A CASSANDRA, NOT ONLY DID YOU BELIEVE SO MUCH IN THE POSSIBILITY OF THE VACCINE THAT YOU WERE A PARTICIPANT IN A CLINICAL TRIAL, WHY WAS THAT IMPORTANT FOR YOU AS A PERSON OF COLOR TO PARTICIPATE AND WHAT DO YOU WANT OTHER PEOPLE TO TAKE AWAY FROM THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE BEEN VACCINATED?

>> THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT UP.

I IMMEDIATELY JUMPED WHEN I FOUND BOSTON MEDICAL CENTER WHERE I WORK WAS POSTING ONE, HOSTING ONE OF THE CRITICAL SITES FOR PFIZER TRIAL.

I KNEW THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE AN UPHILL BATTLE IN ENROLLING ENOUGH BLACK PEOPLE AND I TOOK THIS OPPORTUNITY I HAD OF BEING PROXIMAL TO THAT OF SAYING, LOOK, YOU NEED ME I AM A BLACK PERSON, ENROLL ME IN THE STUDY, YOU NEED THIS.

WE KNEW FROM THE GET-GO WE KNOW COMMUNITIES OF COLORS ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECTED THIS PANDEMIC, WE NEEDED TO BE AT THE TABLE IN THE TRIALS TO ENSURE THIS VACCINE WOULD WORK FOR US, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE STRESS WE UNDERSTANDABLY HAVE, GIVEN THE MEDICAL TRIALS AND MEDICAL TREATMENT AND THE HISTORICAL MEDICAL MALPRACTICE IN THE PAST SO I WANTED TO BE A PART OF THAT STUDY TO SAY PEOPLE HERE WHO HAVE UNDERGONE THIS, THEY HAVE SEEN IT WORKS OR DOESN'T WORK, IT IS IMPORTANT TO BE A PART OF THAT.

THAT NOTWITHSTANDING I WAS STILL WANTING TO MAKE SURE, I LOOKED AT THE DATA MYSELF, EVEN HAVING BEEN A PART OF THE TRIAL I DEFINITELY AM NOT A SPOKESPERSON FOR IT SO I LOOKED AT THE DATA WHEN IT CAME OUT AND I WAS BLOWN AWAY BY THE SAFETY AND EFFICACY, INCLUDING AND ESPECIALLY FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR, BLACK PEOPLE IN PARTICULAR.

SO WHEN I FOUND OUT I WAS IN THE PLACEBO ARM OF THE TRIAL THEY LET BIT KNOWN I IMMEDIATELY SAID PLEASE SIGN ME UP FOR REAL VACCINE AND I GOT THE SECOND VACCINE YESTERDAY, I WAS A LITTLE NERVOUS BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN HEARING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, YOU MAY HAVE A LITTLE MORE SIDE EFFECTS AFTER THAT BUT I AM FEELING WELL, SO I JUST WANT PEOPLE TO SEE, I HAVE BEEN VACCINATED AND FEELING WELL AND, FEELING WELL AND HERE TALKING TO YOU TODAY.

>> Crossley: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THERE IS A HISTORY OF MEDICAL MISTREATMENT THAT NOW IS WELL DOCUMENTED.

THE TUSKEGEE SYPHILIS STUDY, OF COURSE, AND, YOU KNOW, ANY NUMBER OF WOMEN WHO HAVE BEEN OPERATE -- OPERATED ON AGAINST THEIR WILL AND BEEN -- AND LOST THEIR REPRODUCTIVE SYSTEMS AS A RESULT OF THAT.

AND NOT TO MENTION HENRIETTA -- CELLS BEING DISTRIBUTED AROUND WITHOUT PERMISSION OF HER FAMILY SO THAT IS REAL.

FOLKS HAVE A REASON TO BE DISTRUSTFUL OF A SYSTEM LIKE THAT.

HOWEVER, YOU ARE SAYING THAT IS NOT ENOUGH THAT OR SHOULDN'T BE ENOUGH TO TURN PEOPLE AWAY FROM THIS VACCINE.

WE SHOULD HONOR THEIR CONCERN BUT MOVE FORWARD.

HOW DO YOU DO THAT?

>> I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO HONOR THEIR CONCERNS, BUT THE OTHER THING, CALLIE, I DON'T TALK ABOUT DISTRUST.

IN MY WORK, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO TALK ABOUT TRUSTWORTHINESS BECAUSE IT HAS BECOME A MANTRA OF THE DISTRUSTFUL BLACK PEOPLE, SOMEHOW IT IS ALMOST LIKE AN INHERENT TRAIT OF BLACK PEOPLE TO BE DISTRUSTFUL.

AND I THINK THAT WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT TRUSTWORTHINESS, AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO GAIN MY TRUST?

AND SO I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING WE NEED DO.

I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK TO THE A PAST A TO UNDERSTAND WHY BLACK PEOPLE MIGHT NOT WANT TO BE A PART OF A CLINICAL TRIAL, WHY THEY MIGHT BE AFRAID OF VACCINATIONS.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, ONE OF MY CONCERNS IS THAT A LARGE PART OF THE DISCUSSION IS ABOUT HISTORY, HISTORICAL MISTREATMENT, SO ONE OF THE THINGS I HAVE ON MY COMPUTER IS THAT I HAVE UNDER GOOGLE SEARCH AND GOOGLE SCHOLAR SEARCHES THE TUSKEGEE SYPHILIS STUDY AND IT JUST BLOWS UP EVERY DAY.

AND YOU READ THAT PEOPLE SAY THAT IT WAS BECAUSE OF THE SYPHILIS STUDY, AND I THINK THAT THE SYPHILIS STUDY HAS PLAYED A ROLE, BUT THE IMPORTANT PART TO UNDERSTAND TOO IS THAT PEOPLE'S DAY TO DAY EXPERIENCES IS TODAY.

SO THIS IS JUST NOT ABOUT THE SYPHILIS STUDY.

AND I CALL IT THE U.S. PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE SYPHILIS STUDY AT TUSKEGEE TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND IT WAS A PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE THAT CONDUCTED THIS RESEARCH.

>> Crossley: LET'S PICK UP ON THAT, DOCTOR, BY THE WAY, VANESSA, YOU GOING TO HAVE THE VACCINE, YOU HAVE A NOT YET HAD?

IT.

>> I PLAN UPON HAVING THE VACCINE AND PEOPLE HAVE CALLED, I THINK EVERYONE HERE ON THIS PANEL HAVE HAD PEOPLE CALL THEM, FAMILY MEMBERS, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO ARE CLINICIANS AND THEIR PATIENTS ASK THEM ABOUT IT AND I TELL PEOPLE THE REASONS WHY I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT.

I PLAN ON HAVING THE VACCINE.

>> Crossley: SO, HOLLY, LET'S PICK UP ON THAT, YOU HAVE HAD THE VACCINE BUT WITH EPIDEMIC CENTERS THERE ARE HEALTHCARE WORKERS WHO HAVE NOT FELT COMFORTABLE AND YOU HAVE TO SPEND SOME TIME HAVING A DISCUSSION WITH THEM AND OTHERS WHO ARE ASKING THE KINDS OF QUESTIONS THAT THEY SHOULD ASK OUT OF CONCERN.

HOW DO YOU APPROACH GETTING ACROSS TO FOLKS OF COLOR WHO HAVE REASON, AS WE HAVE DISCUSSED TO BE SUSPICIOUS BUT IN YOUR WORLD HAVE ANOTHER REASON AS PEOPLE WHO ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACTED BY COVID SPREAD TO GET THIS VACCINE.

>> YEAH, RIGHT.

THANKS VERY MUCH.

YOU KNOW, AT A PLACE LIKE THE EPIDEMIC CENTER SWAY COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTER, IT IS STAFFED BY HEALTHCARE WORKERS THAT SHOULD ASSUME HAD THAT SHOULD KNOW BETTER, QUITE FRANKLY WE ARE ALL PEOPLE AND WE ARE ALL SUSCEPTIBLE TO THE SAME WORRIES, AS WE DID INITIAL SURVEYS TO SEE WHAT THE INTEREST AND POTENTIALLY UPTAKE OF THE VACCINE WOULD BE, THE PERCENTAGES WERE JUST ABOUT THE SAME IN SOME OF THE POLLS THAT WERE HAPPENING SORT OF IN GENERAL POPULATION, AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE APPROACH IT REALLY WITH THE SAME SORT OF EFFORTS THAT WE WOULD THE GENERAL POPULATION AND I DO REALLY APPRECIATE WHAT DR. GAMBLE HAS SAID AROUND, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN THE NARRATIVE A BIT TO FOCUS LESS ON TO THE DISTRUST PIECE AND TALK A LOT MORE ABOUT THE TRUSTWORTHINESS BECAUSE REALLY, WHILE THE DISTRUST IS OUT THERE WE DO HAVE TO, I THINK, REALLY ASSUME THE RESPONSIBILITY, RIGHT, THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY, THE SCIENCE COMMUNITY, HEALTHCARE COMMUNITY HAS TO ASSUME THE RESPONSIBILITY OF BUILDING THE TRUSTWORTHINESS OF WHAT WE ARE DOING.

AND SO AS WE DO THAT WITH OUR OWN STAFF, IT IS EVERYTHING FROM MAKING SURE ACCURATE INFORMATION IS OUT THERE ACROSS MULTIPLE CHANNELS WHILE, YOU KNOW, QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSIONS, E-MAIL SESSIONS AND SO FORTH, ARE REALLY PROVIDING THE INFORMATION BUT ALSO PROVIDING THE FORUMS THAT PEOPLE CAN COMFORTABLY ASK THEIR QUESTIONS AND JUST HASH IT OUT, IF YOU WILL, RIGHT?

WE HAVE POST HOSTED MULTIPLE Q & A SESSIONS AND MULTIPLE CHANNELS OF GETTING INFORMATION OUT THERE, AND CONVERSATION FORUMS BIG AND SMALL TO OPEN UP THE CHANNELS THAT PEOPLE CAN REALLY JUST WORK OUT WHAT THEIR QUESTIONS ARE IN SAFE SPACES.

AND I THINK THE OTHER THING THAT WE HAVE REALLY ATTEMPTED TO DO IS FOR FOLKS WHO ACTUALLY HAVE MADE THE DECISION TO GET THE VACCINE OR ALREADY RECEIVED IT, REALLY TRY TO CAPTURE THEIR SENTIMENTS ALONG MULTIPLE CHANNELS, VIDEOS AND SO PORT AND SHARE THOSE, BECAUSE THE OTHER THING THAT WE HAVE HEARD A LOT FROM BOTH OUR STAFF AS WELL AS I HAVE BEEN TALKING TO PATIENTS IS, THE FOLKS WHO ARE IN THAT HESITANT BUCKET ARE ALSO SORT OF HANGING BACK A BIT TO HEAR, LIKE THEY WANT TO HEAR A LITTLE BIT ABOUT OTHERS WHO HAVE GONE BEFORE THEM AND SO FORTH, SO WE ARE TRYING TO CREATE MANY CHANNELS WHERE PEOPLE CAN SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCES, THE REASONS THAT THEY DECIDED TO MAKE THAT DECISION, HOW THEY FELT AFTER THE VACCINE AND SO FORTH.

>> SO CAMERA, YOU, CAMARA YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE THE VACCINE AND IN FACT YOU LOOKED AT SOME OF THE DATA AND VERY IMPRESSED BY THE MODERNA VACCINE DATA SPECIFICALLY.

SO SPEAK TO THAT FIRST.

>> WELL, BOTH THE MODERNA AND THE PFIZER VACCINES ARE EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE AND WHEN I LOOKED AT THAT, I MEAN, YEAH, THIS IS A REAL LET OUT THERE, COVID-19 KILLS ONE IN 100 AND EVEN IF YOU GET IT AND SURVIVE YOU HAVE LONG-TERM MEMORY ISSUES AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT.

SO TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT IS 94 TO 95 PERCENT EFFECTIVE IN STOPPING YOU FROM GETTING DETECTABLE COVID-19 DISEASE, THAT'S AMAZING.

SO THAT'S WHY, YES, THERE ARE MANY QUESTIONS WE HAVE, WE HAVE THE HISTORY STUFF AND WE HAVE -- WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT LONG-TERM SIDE EFFECTS BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT THE VIRUS BUT FOR A YEAR AND FOR VACCINES HALF A YEAR AND WE NOW HAVE HAD THREE MONTHS OF FOLLOW-UP IN THE TRIALS, YOU KNOW, IN FOLLOW UPS AND WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT LONG LONG-TERM SIDE EFFECTS AND RARE SIDE EFFECTS.

THE PFIZER TRIAL HAD 44,000 ENROLL LOUISIANA SO THE MODERNA, ABOUT 30,000 ..

SO WHAT HAPPENS, ONE IN 100,000 SO MAYBE NOW WE HAVE 5 MILLION PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN -- WHO HAVE GOTTEN THE VACCINE AND WE ARE GOING START GETTING FOLLOW-UP BUT THOSE ARE REAL QUESTIONS BUT THIS IS HOW I CAME DOWN ON IT.

WE IN THIS COUNTRY, ESPECIALLY PEOPLE OF COLOR IN THIS COUNTRY, WE LIVE WITH A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY, RIGHT?

I AM WILLING TO LIVE WITH THE UNCERTAINTY ASSOCIATED THE UNKNOWNS ABOUT THE VACCINE AS A TRADEOFF BECAUSE IT IS EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE AS OPPOSED TO GETTING AND DYING FROM COVID, SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT A RISK-BENEFIT ANALYSIS, THE BENEFIT OF THIS VACCINE IS AMAZING, AND THE RISK FROM THE VACCINE THAT WE KNOW OF ARE MINIMAL, WE DON'T KNOW ALL OF THEM BUT THE RISK FROM COVID WE FOR SURE KNOW THAT AND SO IT IS A RISK-BENEFIT ANALYSIS, CAMARA, YOU HAVE AN ANALOGY YOU TALK ABOUT THE VACCINE AS FIRE PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN?

>> OKAY.

SO FIRST OF ALL, WHAT WE HAVE WITH COVID-19 IN THIS COUNTRY STARTED OUT AS A MAYBE A FIRE ON A STOVE AND WE DIDN'T PUT IT OUT RIGHT AWAY BECAUSE WE THOUGHT IT WOULD PUT ITSELF OUT AND THEN IT EXPLODE THE WHOLE HOUSE AND THEN SPREAD TO THE COMMUNITY AND NOW IT IS A RAGING FIRE ACROSS THE NATION.

THE VACCINE IS PROMISING AS INDIVIDUAL PROTECTION LIKE PUTTING ON FIRE PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT, RIGHT?

BUT THE VACCINE IS NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WE NEED DO TO BE STOPPING THIS PANDEMIC.

FIREFIGHTERS WITH THEIR FIRE PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT DON'T GO STAND AROUND A BURNING HOUSE AND MAKE A CIRCLE AROUND IT AND HOPE IT IS GOING TO GO OUT.

NO.

OR THAT THEY ARE GOING TO -- NO.

THEY ACT, RIGHT?

AND SO WE HAVE TO ALL RECOGNIZE THAT WE ARE FIREFIGHTERS IN THIS, BESIDES GETTING OUR VACCINE WHICH IS INDIVIDUAL LEVEL PROTECTION, WE NEED ACT AS INDIVIDUALS WITH OUR MASKS AND SOCIAL DISTANCING AND WASHING OUR HANDS AND AVOIDING, YOU KNOW, CROWDS AND ALL OF THAT, BUT ALSO THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO BRING IN THE WATER, RIGHT?

THEY NEED TO BRING IN THE FIREHOUSES AND, HOSES AND BRING IN THE HELICOPTERS WITH THE POWDER THAT PUTS OUT THESE FIRES AND WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE.

>> IT LOOKS LIKE THE GOVERNMENT MAKING IT FEASIBLE FOR MOST PEOPLE TO SAFELY SHELTER IN PLACE RICE NOW, RIGHT NOW WITH UNIVERSAL INCOME OR AT LEAST A ONE-TIME $2,000 CHECK, IT SHOULDN'T BE ONE TIME BUT EVERY MONTH UNTIL THIS IS OVER, NOT JUST EVICTION MORE FOR CRUMB BUT RENT AND MORTGAGE FORGIVENESS SO WE NEED TO DO THAT AND FOR THOSE WHO REALLY ARE ESSENTIAL, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THOSE WORKPLACES ARE SAFE SO THE OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY ADMINISTRATION NEEDS TO STEP UP AND REGULATE SAFE WORKPLACES AND WE NEED MAKE SURE THOSE WORKERS ARE PROTECTED WITH ALL OF THE PPE THEY NEED.

SO ALL OF THAT, YOU KNOW, IT IS AN A ALL HANDS ON DECK BUT WE JUST CAN'T GET OUR VACCINE AND FEEL, OKAY, IT IS DONE.

THE PUBLIC HEALTH STRATEGIES ARE AT LEAST AS IMPORTANT RIGHT NOW AS THE VACCINE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

NOW I WANT TO FOLLOW UP WITH THE EQUITY QUESTION, BECAUSE THAT HAS BEEN THE QUESTION FROM THE BEGINNING, YOU KNOW,, WHO GETS HELP?

WHO DOESN'T?

AND WE ARE NOW AT A POINT WHERE HEALTHCARE OR THIS VACCINE TREATMENT IS BEING RATIONED.

THAT IS NO LONG EAR DISCUSSION.

IT IS HAPPENING IN CALIFORNIA, WHERE THEY ARE HAVING TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT WHO LIVES AND WHO DIES.

AND SO LIKEWISE WITH THE SCARCITY AT THIS MOMENT OF THE VACCINE, WHO GETS IT FIRST AND WHO SHOULD BE GETTING IT?

IS ON THE TABLE.

AND IT IS CONCERNING FOR COMMUNITIES OF COLOR WHO HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AT THE BOTTOM.

VANESSA, I WILL LET YOU START, WITH WHAT ARE YOUR CONCERNS ABOUT THIS?

BECAUSE HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS YOU DON'T LIVE IN MASSACHUSETTS, BUT THE NUMBERS OF VACCINATIONS IN MASSACHUSETTS ARE LOW, THREE PERCENT BLACK, FIVE PERCENT ASIAN, FOUR PERCENT HISPANIC, 50 PERCENT MULTIRACIAL, 20 PERCENT PACIFIC ISLANDER AND THAT IS VERSUS 53 PERCENT WHITE.

THOSE ARE SMALL PERCENTAGES.

>> WELL, I AM GOING LOOK AT THIS HISTORICALLY, AND THE -- ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK COVID-19 HAS DONE, THE SAME WAY THE 1918 INFLUENZA EPIDEMIC DID WAS THAT BOTH EPIDEMICS HAVE REVEALED THE FAULT LINES OF INEQUITIES IN THIS COUNTRY, THAT THESE ARE NOT -- THE PANDEMIC IN 1918, OUR CURRENT PANDEMIC, THAT THESE, REVEAL -- THESE ARE NOT AT DR. JONES SAID, THESE ARE NOT JUST PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUES OR MEDICAL ISSUES, THESE ARE BROADER SOCIAL ISSUES WHEN SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT THINGS SUCH AS INCOME AND HOUSING.

AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC HAS SHOWN IS THAT CERTAIN COMMUNITIES, WE MIGHT HAVE, YOU KNOW, MIGHT NOT BE VACCINATED THAT I HAD BECAUSE THERE IS NOT A PHARMACY IN THE AREA.

WE ARE NOW TALKING ABOUT THE PHARMACIES ARE THE PLACES WHERE THERE SHOULD BE -- WHERE A VACCINATION SHOULD OCCUR BUT NOW THERE IS THIS CONCEPT OF PHARMACY DESERTS, THAT THERE ARE COMMUNITIES IN THIS COUNTRY WHERE THERE IS NOT A PHARMACY WHERE YOU CAN GET YOUR VACCINATION.

SO ONCE AGAIN, WE SEE A FRACTURED INFRASTRUCTURE, WE SEE A FRACTURED PUBLIC HEALTH AND SOCIETAL INFRASTRUCTURE IN WITH PEOPLE OF COLOR WILL BE ADVERSELY AFFECTED.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS TOO THAT WHEN YOU WERE TALKING, CALLIE, ABOUT RATIONING, I THINK SOME PEOPLE WERE SURPRISED THAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT RATIONING.

RATIONING HAS OCCURRED FOR DECADES IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT THAT WHEN -- IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME FOR FOLKS OF COLOR IN TERMS OF WHETHER THERE IS A PHYSICIAN IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, WHETHER YOU HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE, BUT NOW THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT RATIONING FOR A BROADER POPULATION, SO ALL OF A SUDDEN IT HAS BECOME A PROBLEM.

SO THAT I THINK THAT RATIONING IS NOT NEW IN TERMS OF THE ALLOCATION OF HEALTHCARE FACILITIES AND RESOURCES, BUT ALSO BROADER SOCIAL RESOURCES.

>> CASSANDRA, ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT THE RATIONING THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE, AS VANESSA HAS SAID BUT NOW IS EXACERBATED POTENTIALLY ABOUT THESE LOW NUMBERS OF FOLKS OF COLOR IN MASSACHUSETTS AT LEAST THAT HAVE RECEIVED VACCINE?

I KNOW THERE ARE MORE TO COME, BUT STILL ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT THAT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS, BUT THE MAIN ONE IS BECAUSE WE SEE OBVIOUSLY THE DISCREPANCY IN THE VACCINATION NUMBERS, SO WE KNOW THAT PEOPLE, BLACK PEOPLE ARE THREE TIMES LIKELY TO BE HOSPITALIZED AND IN DIFFERENT RATIOS FOR INCREASING RISK OF DYING FROM COVID-19.

YOU HAVE A DIFFERENTIAL IN THAT VACCINATION NUMBER -- YOU NOW HAVE PEOPLE, BLACK PEOPLE INFECTED SIX TIMES THE RATE OF WHITE PEOPLE, DYING AT HIGHER RATES, SO ABSOLUTELY IN -- THIS CANNOT PERSIST THIS WAY.

THE OTHER THING I AM CONCERNED ABOUT, MAYBE NOT AS MUCH IT IS A RATIONING IS THE THOUGHT THAT SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE CURRENTLY ELIGIBLE FOR THIS VACCINE IN MASSACHUSETTS ARE HEALTHCARE WORKERS AND THOSE IN LONG-TERM CARE FACILITIES.

AND SO YOU REALLY SHOULDN'T BE THINKING -- WE SHOULD BE THINKING ABOUT THE NUMBERS SHOULD BE EQUIVALENT AND THE FACT THEY ARE NOT IS NOT JUST ABOUT RATIONING IT IS ABOUT ENSURING WE ARE GETTING THE MESSAGE ACROSS THE OUR HEALTHCARE WORKERS OF COLOR AND SO ME AND YOU AS DR. OH MENTIONED THE EDUCATION CAMPAIGN REALLY NEEDS TO BE INTENSE FIRST AND FOREMOST IN THOSE HEALTHCARE FACILITIES BECAUSE EVERYBODY WHO WHETHER YOU A PHYSICIAN OR AN ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICE WORKER OR FOOD SERVICE WORKER YOU ARE A DE FACTO OR, YOU KNOW, DE FACTO EXPERT AND AUTHORITY ON THESE VACCINES TO YOUR COMMUNITY, TO YOUR FAMILY, TO YOUR PATIENTS AND SO THAT IS AN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT, AS FAR AS THE RATIONING AND I GUESS THE STATE LIKES TO CALL IT PRIORITIZATION IS CONCERNED, IT HAD A SIGNIFICANT TIME INPUT, MANY PEOPLE INVOLVED ARE THINKING ABOUT HOW TO DO THIS EQUITABLY WITHOUT SAYING BLACK PREJUDICE THE FRONT OF THE LINE BECAUSE THAT WOULD ALSO CAUSE A CONCERN.

WE KNOW COMMUNITIES THAT ARE AT HIGHEST RISK SO IN ORDER TO GET THERE, IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO FOCUS NOT JUST ON QUANTITIES OF MEDICAL ILLNESSES AND AGE BUT ALSO TO LOOK AT SOCIAL VULNERABLE, VULNERABILITY, AS MANY -- WORKING AT SOCIAL VULNERABILITY IN COMMUNITIES AND A WAY TO ENSURE WE ARE PRIORITIZING ONCE WE GO OUT IN THE COMMUNITY THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY AFFECTED AND THAT WOULD BE COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, AND SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE ARE ACTUALLY DOING THAT.

>> Crossley: DOCTOR, -- DR OH YOU ARE AT GROUND ZERO BECAUSE A LOT OF THE VACCINES ARE GOING TO COME CAN TO HEALTHCARE, NEIGHBORHOOD HEALTHCARE CENTERS, COMMUNITY HEALTHCARE CENTERS LIKE THE DIMOCK CENTER SO HOW CAN YOU MAKE SURE?

BECAUSE THOSE NUMBERS ARE NOT LOOKING GOOD, THAT THERE IS MORE EQUITY ACROSS THE BOARD IN TERMS OF WHO IS FIRST TO GET THOSE VACCINES?

>> I HAVE TO SAY ONE THING I WAS QUITE ENCOURAGED BY, YOU KNOW, IN OUR STATE, COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS THAT COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS WERE RIGHT THERE AT THE FRONT WITH REGARDS TO GETTING SOME OF THE FIRST ALLOCATIONS.

AND I WAS ACTUALLY REALLY, REALLY ENCOURAGED BY THAT KNOWING THAT, YOU KNOW, COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS ARE THE CENTERS NOT JUST IN MASSACHUSETTS BUT ACROSS THE ENTIRE NATION THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT I OFTEN WORK WITH COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES SO THE FACT WE WERE REALLY AT THE FRONT END OF THE FIRST ALLOCATION WAS REALLY PROMISING, I THINK, FOR US, AGAIN, IT JUST GOES BACK TO US CREATING ALL THOSE DETAILS AND EFFORTS OF EARNED OUR TRUSTWORTHINESS, RIGHT AS WE GO BACK TO WHAT WE STARTED WITH WHAT DR. GAMBLE SAID, EDUCATION CAMPAIGNS, RIGHT NOW IT IS STARTING WITH OUR HEALTHCARE WORKERS, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW TOO AS WE DID THE INITIAL SURVEYS AS I SAID, SOUTH OF THE READINESS TO ACCEPT THE VACCINE ACTUALLY DID CLEAVE ALONG RACIAL LINES AND ROLL BASED LINES WITH OUR FRONT LINE, FRONT, FRONTLINE WORKERS BEING A LITTLE BIT LESS LIKELY TO UPTAKE THE VACCINE ON TO THE FIRST ROUND AND WE KNOW THAT THAT IS GOING TO BE REFLECTED SORT OF AS WE MOVE INTO OUR LONG-TERM CARE FACILITIES, OUR PATIENTS, COMMUNITY PACING AND SO FORTH, SO IT REALLY IS A VERY, VERY TARGETED, TARGETED EDUCATION CAMPAIGN AND REALLY SORT OF EITHER SORT OF HIGHLIGHTING AND BE ANYTHING ALL OF THOSE COMMUNITIES WHO WE KNOW GENERALLY ARE GOING TO HAVE I THINK CONCERNS AND TROUBLE WITH ACCESS, SO I THINK IT IS THE EDUCATIONAL CAMPAIGNS AS WELL AS SORT OF WE REALLY HAVE TO DO TARGETED OUTREACH ONCE WE GET TO THAT POINT WHERE WE ARE BRINGING THOSE PRIORITY GROUPS IN, TARGETING CERTAIN COMMUNITIES SPECIFICALLY.

>> CAMARA, I WILL LET YOU START AND PROBABLY FINISH ON TO THE OTHER SIDE BECAUSE I JUST HAVE A FEW SECONDS HERE.

BUT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT A VULNERABILITY INDEX IS THE BETTER WAY TO LOOK AT THIS, NOT JUST DISTRIBUTE, BUT PAY ATTENTION TO WHO NEEDS IT MOST.

>> RIGHT.

AND DR. PIERRE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THE CDC SOCIAL VULNERABILITY INDEX WHERE THERE IS A SPECIFIC COVID-19 COMMUNITY VULNERABILITY INDEX WHAT I WILL HAVE TO SAY ALTHOUGH MASSACHUSETTS MIGHT BE IMPLEMENTING THAT I HAVEN'T SEEN THAT GEORGIA, BECAUSE I JUST GOT A NOTICE THAT RIGHT NOW, FIRST COME, FIRST SERVE IN COLEDA COUNTY FOR THOSE 65 AND OVER, WELL I AM SUPPOSED TO BE IN PHASE 1 C AND NOT EVEN A SUPPOSED TO BE THERE YET AND MY HUSBAND IS LIKE I HEARD OF THIS, DO YOU WANT TO GO?

AND I SAID, NO, I DON'T WANT TO STEP OUT OF LINE.

WE NEED TO BE, FIRST OF ALL, NOT EVEN GIVEN EQUAL PROPORTIONATE AMOUNT OF VACCINE TO POPULATIONS IN THE STATE, YOU NEED TO DO IT ACCORDING TO NEED.

ACCORDING TO NEED.

>> Crossley: STOP YOU THERE AND THE DON'T AND JUST SAY GOOD-BYE RIGHT NOW TO OUR BROADCAST.

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