EVER SINCE 2020, NEW YORK — AND STATES AROUND THE COUNTRY — HAVE EXPERIENCED PROLONGED INCREASES IN RATES OF VIOLENT CRIME — ESPECIALLY WITH FIREARMS.

ALARMING ANECDOTES, AS WELL AS DATA, PAINT A PICTURE THAT HAS NEW YORKERS WORRIED, WITH 60 PERCENT TELLING A POLLSTER THIS SUMMER THAT THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT BEING THE VICTIM OF A CRIME.

BUT WHAT IS THE REAL DANGER ON ANY GIVEN DAY IN NEW YORK?

AND WHERE VIOLENCE IS PERSISTENTLY HIGH, WHAT'S CAUSING IT?

AND HOW SHOULD IT BE ADDRESSED, NOW AND IN THE FUTURE?

ALL THAT — AND MUCH MORE — COMING UP NEXT, ON CONNECT: NEW YORK.

[♪♪♪] WELCOME TO CONNECT-NEW YORK, I'M DAVID LOMBARDO — HOST OF WCNY'S THE CAPITOL PRESSROOM, A DAILY PUBLIC RADIO SHOW BROADCASTING FROM THE STATE CAPITOL.

TODAY'S PROGRAM REVOLVES AROUND THE ELEVATED LEVELS OF VIOLENCE IN NEW YORK SINCE 2020, WHICH — WITH OUR PANEL OF EXPERTS - WE'LL HOPEFULLY PUT INTO CONTEXT, GET TO THE ROOT OF AND IDENTIFY WAYS TO END.

BUT FIRST, WE'RE GOING TO SHINE SPOTLIGHT ON THE CITY OF SYRACUSE, AND IT'S RECENT EXPERIENCE WITH GUN VIOLENCE.

SHOW PRODUCER SUSAN BITTER HAS THAT STORY.

[♪♪♪] >> AS WE'RE RECOVERING FROM THE COVID PANDEMIC WE ARE SUFFERING A PANDEMIC OF JUVENILE GUN VIOLENCE IN THE CITY.

OUR SHOOTINGS WITH INJURIES OR DEATHS ARE UP 54% IN THE CITY OF SYRACUSE IN THE LAST CALENDAR YEAR.

THAT IS AN EXTRAORDINARY INCREASE.

>> IT AFFECTS US IN A BIG WAY.

NOT ONLY THE HOMICIDES WHICH ARE ARE TERRIBLE THE WORST THING THAT HAPPEN TO A FAMILY IS TO HAVE A LOVED ONE MURDERED BUT THE SHOTS FIRED OCCURRING ALL OVER THE CITY.

THE BULLETS DON'T STOP OUT OF THE GUN THEY CONTINUE ON TO UNTIL THEY HIT SOMETHING.

SO WE'VE HAD INNOCENT BYSTANDERS HIT.

SO IT'S DANGEROUS FOR EVERYONE.

THIS YEAR WE'RE SEEING IT ACROSS THE BOARD WE'RE SEEING ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT REASONS FOR THE GUN VIOLENCE.

BUT GANG ACTIVITY AND DRUGS IS STILL THE ONE AND TWO CAUSE OF IT.

>> WHY THERE IS A 14-YEAR-OLD IN RESPONSE TO A EVERYDAY TRIVIAL SITUATION RESORT TO GETTING A GUN AND SHOOTING HIS FELLOW HUMAN BEING TO DEATH IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY IN BROAD DAYLIGHT.

>> VIOLENCE WITH OUR JUDGE PEOPLE HAS NOW BECOME AN IDENTITY.

SO THEY ARE FACING A IDENTITY CRISIS IN THE IMPROVISHED NEIGHBORHOODS, COUPLED WITH THE TRAUMA AND THE MURDER RATE AND PRISON SENTENCES I THINK THE OVERALL PROCESS OF MANHOOD WAS LOST SOMEWHERE IN THAT.

AND NOW THE VIOLENCE HAS BECOME AN IDENTITY.

IT IS A CULTURE.

>> WHEN I WAS GROWING UP I HAD BAD STUFF A LOT OF OLDER KIDS SAYING, CLAP THIS AND CLAP THAT.

AND THAT MENTALITY YOU ARE NOT THINKING STRAIGHT.

BECAUSE NOW WE'RE CLAPPING SOMEBODY.

WHAT COMES WITH PEOPLE ALWAYS SAY, OH, YOU CAN ROB PEOPLE AND DO THIS AND THAT.

BUT YOU NEVER THINK ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES THAT COME WITH IT.

>> WE HAVE A GUN VIOLENCE DETAIL OUT THERE RIGHT THOUSAND.

WE HAD TO LIMIT IT FROM LAST YEAR BECAUSE OF OUR STAFFING ISSUES BUT WE STILL FIELD CARS.

I'VE BEEN OUT 38 YEARS AND I'VE NEVER SEEN THIS TYPE OF WORK VOLUME BEING DONE WITH ALL THE VARIOUS THINGS THROWN THEIR WAY WHETHER IT'S BAIL REFORM, CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS COMING THEIR WAY AND TRYING TO GET THE HAPPENED GUNS OFF THE STREET.

>> WE SEE PROGRESSIVE SENTENCES ON THOSE CASES.

THESE PEOPLE ARE RUINING OUR COMMUNITY THE CASES INVOLVE MANDATORY STATE SENTENCES AND WE WILL SEEK IN SOME CASES THE MAXIMUM SENTENCE.

IN FAR TOO MANY CASES THESE INDIVIDUALS ARE REFERRED TO THE FAMILY COURT SYSTEM, WHICH IS FRANKLY INSANE.

AND MANY, MANY OTHER CASES BECAUSE QUOTE-UNQUOTE BAIL REFORM INDIVIDUALS ARE RELEASED WITHOUT ANY BAIL AND ARE FREE TO REOFFEND.

>> .

>> POLICE COME TO OUR SCHOOLS AND BE OUR STAGE, HE WAS [INAUDIBLE] I REALLY DON'T CARE BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU ARE NOT DOING NOTHING FOR OUR TOWN BUT PUT PEOPLE IN JAIL.

AND PEOPLE GET LOCKED UP FOR KILLING PEOPLE BUT [INAUDIBLE] AND WHAT ABOUT THEY FAMILIES AND WHAT ABOUT HOW THEY FEEL?

>> I WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT ON THE AUTHORITIES INACTIVENESS ON VIOLENCE.

AND THEIR REACTION TO VIOLENCE.

YOU SEE.

IT'S NOT THAT REACTION BUT INACTION AND THEIR REACTION AFTER I COMMIT VIOLENCE.

SEE, IT SEEMS LIKE THE SYSTEM IS SETUP FOR WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO AFTER THEY DO THIS.

INSTEAD OF WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO THAT TO PREVENT THAT HAPPENING?

>> YOU CAN TALK TO ME ABOUT REHABILITATION.

MY GOAL IS ENCOMPASSTATION.

I WANT TO GET THE GUN VIOLENT OFFENDER OFF THE STREETS SO HE CAN'T OFFEND AGAIN.

REHABILITATION IS SKETCHY AT BEST WITH THESE INDIVIDUALS.

THEY USUALLY HAVE A MINDSET OF LIFE DOESN'T MATTER.

>> TREATING ADDICTION IS A THEORY THAT I CREATED BASED OFF OF PERSONAL EXPERIENCE THAT HIGHLIGHTS THE FACT THAT THE STREETS HAVE AN ADDICTIVE NATURE LIKE COCAINE, ALCOHOL AND GAMBLING.

PEOPLE RAZOR EXPOSED TO THAT PROCESS ARE IN NEED OF REHABILITATION BEFORE YOU CAN MAINSTREAM THEM BACK IN ANY QUOTE-UNQUOTE TRADITIONAL JOB PLACEMENT, EDUCATIONAL PROCESS OR A TRADE.

TRAUMATIZED PEOPLE ARE EASILY AGITATED BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO TAKE ON ANYMORE.

RIGHT?

IT'S NOT THAT THEY ARE THESE BAD PEOPLE OR UNCIVILIZED PEOPLE, THEY'VE REACHED THEIR LIMIT.

>> WHAT I ADMIRE ABOUT STREET ADDICTION BECAUSE THEY GREW UP IN THIS TYPE OF NEIGHBORHOOD, AND BECAUSE THEY HAD ENOUGH INSIGHT TO SEE THAT THERE IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IF WE DON'T DO SOMETHING TO FIX IT, NO ONE IS.

WE NEED TO HELP FIX OURSELVES.

>> WITH THE YOUNG PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, WE JUST TRY TO HELP THEM MOVE BACK TO A SPACE TO ENJOY CHILDHOOD.

SOMETIMES WHEN YOU COME FROM POVERTY, YOU HAVE ADULT RESPONSIBILITIES AS YOUNG PEOPLE.

SO THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY THAT IS ADULTS NOW THAT DIDN'T HAVE A CHILDHOOD.

>> I HAVE FUN.

IT'S ABOUT BUILDING TEAMS LIKE WORKING TOGETHER AND NOT SOLO.

LIKE YOU ARE NOT A PERSON THAT IS JUST WALKING BY YOURSELF.

GOT YOUR FRIENDS BEHIND YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS GOT YOUR BACK.

>> MY MOM WENT THROUGH A PHASE IN LIFE AND HOPEFULLY WE ARE GOING TO PUT IT BEHIND HIM.

AND WE ARE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH OUR BEST FOOT AND TRY TO -- I'M TRYING TO SHOW MY SON WE ARE A PART OF SOCIETY YOU HAVE AN OBLIGATION.

>> WE HAVE TO STOP SAYING WE HAVE TO GET THE GUNS OFF THE STREET.

AND THAT'S A NOBLE GOAL, I AGREE WITH THAT.

BUT WE'VE BEEN SAYING THAT FOR 40 YEARS AND IT HASN'T WORKED.

WE HAVE TO GET TO THE ROOT CAUSES.

>> POLICE ARE NOT SOCIAL WORKERS.

THEY ARE THERE TO MAINTAIN A SENSE OF ORDER THROUGH OUR COMMUNITY OR A NEIGHBORHOOD.

VIOLENCE PREVENTION IN THE SENSE I THINK THAT FALLS MORE ON FAMILIES AND INSTRUCTION THAT COMES FROM INDIVIDUAL HOUSEHOLDS AND COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE.

AND NEIGHBORHOODS AS A WHOLE.

>> WE ARE NOT GOING TO POLICE AWAY GUN VIOLENCE.

I WILL SAY THIS...

IF YOU GAVE US 800 OFFICERS, WE COULD PROBABLY DO IT.

BUT NO TAXPAYER COULD AFFORD THAT.

WE HAVE HAVE THEM ON EVERY CORNER AND GET RID OF GUN VIOLENCE BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

WITH THE NUMBERS WE HAVE WE CANNOT POLICE AWAY GUN VIOLENCE.

THE COMMUNITY HAS TO STEP UP.

>> THE PEOPLE HAVE TO GALVANIZE AND HAVE THIS CONVERSATION AMONGST THEMSELVES AND COME UP WITH STRATEGIES AND IDEAS TO MAKE IT BETTER WHERE THEY LIVE AT.

>> AND NOW FOR A LARGER LOOK AT THESE ISSUES, WE'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM OUR PANELISTS, AND THEY ARE: ROBERT MACIOL, THE SHERIFF OF ONEIDA COUNTY LATEEF JOHSNON-KINSEY, DIRECTOR OF SYRACUSE'S OFFICE TO REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE AND DOCTOR MARY CANNITO-COVILLE, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF ANTHROPOLOGY AND SOCIOLOGY AT SUNY CORTLAND.

SO PROFESSOR SINCE I BUTCHERED YOUR FIRST NAME, I'M CURIOUS THAT STORY WE HEARD FROM THE CITY OF SYRACUSE, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT IS EMBLEMATIC OF WHAT WE'RE HEARING FROM THE REST OF THE STATE ESPECIALLY IN UPSTATE COMMUNITIES?

OR IS THIS AN ANOMALOUS COMMUNITY?

>> WE ARE SEEING GUN VIOLENCE TRENDS INCREASING OVER THE SINCE COVID BEGAN WE ARE SEEING THAT WIDELY IN NEW YORK STATE.

THAT IS KEEPING ON PAR WITH NATIONAL TRENDS.

HOWEVER, THE STATE AVERAGE IS BELOW WHAT THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IS.

RECENT DATA SUGGESTS THAT STATE-WIDE GUN VIOLENCE IS DECREASING SLIGHTLY.

SO PERHAPS WE'VE PEAKED WITH OUR HIGHEST NUMBERS.

BUT OTHER CRIMES SUCH AS PROPERTY CRIMES, BURGLARIES, AND ROBBERIES ARE INCREASING STATE-WIDE.

>> AND THE NUMBERS ARE HIGHER THAN WHAT WE SAW BEFORE THE PANDEMIC HOW DO THEY COMPARE TO THE 90s OR THE 80s OR DECADES IN OUR RECENT HISTORY?

>> GENERALLY OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS OR SO, THE NUMBERS HAVE TRENDED DOWNWARD WITH A FEW SPIKES HERE AND THERE.

BUT IT'S STILL SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER THAN WHAT IT WAS IN THE EARLY 90s WHEN WE SAW MUCH HIGHER NUMBERS.

>> AND SHERIFF, WHAT IS YOUR EXPERIENCE LIKE IN NEIGHBORING ONEIDA COUNTY AND ESPECIALLY WITH THE URBAN AREAS THAT YOU REPRESENT?

>> SURE.

OBVIOUSLY WE'VE BEEN CONCERNED WITH THIS ISSUE FOR QUITE SOMETIME.

AS WE SPOKE, SEEING AN INCREASE THROUGH THE PANDEMIC.

BUT WE'VE BEEN A LITTLE BIT FORTUNATE IN ONEIDA COUNTY.

OUR NUMBERS ARE DOWN SLIGHTLY WHICH IS A POSITIVE THING.

ONEIDA COUNTY IS A UNIQUE COUNTY.

WE HAVE THREE CITIES UTICA, ROME AND CHERYL.

CHERYL IS THE SMALLEST CITY IN THE STATE.

WE HAVE 26 TOWNS MOST OF WHICH ARE RURAL.

AND THEN ABOUT 17 VILLAGES MIXED IN THERE.

THE SUBURBAN TYPE SETTINGS.

SO A LARGE VOLUME OF OUR MORE SERIOUS CRIME OR VIOLENCE CRIME GUN CRIME OCCURS IN UTICA, BEING THE LARGER ONE.

YOU WILL SEE THE HIGHER NUMBERS.

FOR THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS WITH WE'VE SENT MEMBERS OF OUR OFFICE HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED TO THE CITY OF UTICA BECAUSE WE ARE ONE OF THE GIVE COUNTIES IN NEW YORK.

>> CAN YOU EXPLAIN?

>> AN INITIATIVE NEW YORK STATE INITIATIVE STANDS FOR GUN INVOLVED VIOLENCE ELIMINATION.

IT PROVIDES EXTRA FUNDING FOR CERTAIN COUNTIES IN THE STATE THAT HAVE AN ISSUE WITH GUN VIOLENCE.

AND ONEIDA COUNTY HAS BEEN ONE OF THEM.

BUT WE'VE SENT MEMBERS INTO THE CITY.

THEY WORK THE HOTSPOTS WITH UTICA PD AND IN THE LAST YEAR, THE LAST CALENDAR YEAR, TOGETHER WITH UTICA WE WERE SOMEWHERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF 80-85 ILLEGAL HANDGUNS, GUN CRIME GUNS WERE TAKEN OFF THE STREET.

AND THESE WERE FROM HOTSPOT AREAS IN THE CITY OF UTICA.

SO WE DEFINITELY HAVE AN ISSUE.

WE GET OPTIMISTIC WHEN WE SEE THE NUMBERS DROP.

AS THE PROFESSOR SAID, MAYBE THIS IS A PEAK AND WE'RE OBVIOUSLY ON THE DOWNSIDE MAYBE HOPEFULLY.

BUT IT'S CONCERNING.

I MEAN, LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS A DANGEROUS JOB AND AS THE CHIEF OF SYRACUSE SAID IN THE OPENING, THIS IS ALMOST LIKE SORT OF THE OTHER ISSUE WE'RE DEALING WITH IS THE OPIOID FATALITIES THAT THIS COUNTRY HAS BEEN PLAGUED WITH.

WE CAN'T ALWAYS ARREST OUR WAY OUT OF THESE PROBLEMS.

CERTAINLY IT IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT WITH GUN CRIME BECAUSE LAW ENFORCEMENT ACTION AND ENFORCEMENT AND MAKING ARRESTS IS A CRITICAL PART OF THIS.

BUT ALSO THERE HAS TO BE -- WE HAVE TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX.

AS A LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSON OF 34 YEARS, SOMETIMES IT'S HARD FOR US TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX BECAUSE WE ARE SO FOCUSED ON ENFORCEMENT AND TAKING GUN CRIME OFF THE STREET.

THAT IS WHY WE NEED THE NEIGHBORHOODS THE COMMUNITIES THE FAMILIES, THE COOLS THEY NEED TO BE PART OF THE TEAM ALSO.

WE CAN'T DO IT ALONE.

AND THERE'S SO MUCH MORE TO TACKLING THE ISSUE THAN JUST FOCUSING ON THE ENFORCEMENT COMPONENT.

>> YOU MENTIONED THE DIVERSE DEMOGRAPHICS OF ONEIDA COUNTY.

HAS ANY OF THE VIOLENCE THAT YOU'VE SEEN IN THE CITIES SPILLED OVER TO THE SURROUNDING SUBURBS IN THOSE AREAS?

OR IS IT CONTAINED?

>> WHEN IT COMES TO GUN CRIME IT'S RELATIVELY CONTAINED.

IT IS NOT TODAY'S TOPIC BUT A LOT OF THE PROPERTY CRIMES THAT WE TALK ABOUT, THE THEFT OF MOTOR VEHICLES THROUGH THE ROOF ARE MOTOR VEHICLE LEFTS AND A LOT ARE OCCURRING IN THE TOWNESHIPS OUTSIDE THE CITIES.

BUT THE VIOLENT CRIME WE'RE FOCUSING ON HERE TODAY IT'S MAINLY FROM THE TWO CITIES IN OUR COUNTY.

>> WAS THE CAVEAT THAT YOU'VE BEEN IN YOUR COURAGE JOB FOR SIX MONTHS, WHAT STOOD OUT TO YOU FROM THAT PACKAGE THAT HIGHLIGHTED THE EXPERIENCE OF SYRACUSE AND ONONDAGA COUNTY, WHAT RESONATED FROM YOUR TIME ACTUALLY LEADING THIS OFFICE IN SYRACUSE?

>> SEEING MOSTLY THAT IT IS CONFLICT AND IT'S NOT GANG VIOLENCE.

BEING IN LAW ENFORCEMENT IN PHILADELPHIA FOR YEARS BEFORE MOVING BACK HOME, IT WAS A LOT OF GANGS.

SYRACUSE IS UNIQUE BECAUSE THE MURDERS THE HOMICIDES ARE MOSTLY NOT BECAUSE OF GANGS BUT SIMPLY A CONFLICT.

A CONFLICT THAT MIGHT HAVE STARTED AT THE MALL.

THE UNDER CURRENT IS GANGS BECAUSE NOW WE SAY THE GUYS FROM ONE 10TH AND OTHER GUYS FROM THE BRICKS, NOW IT BECOMES A GANG ISSUE.

BUT THE ORIGINAL REASONS FOR THE CRIME OR THE SHOOTINGS ARE CONFLICT.

TWO PEOPLE DON'T GET ALONG.

TWO PEOPLE ARGUING.

TWO PEOPLE ON FACEBOOK ON SOCIAL MEDIA ARGUING.

AND THAT WAS HAPPENING DURING COVID-19.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE AT HOME COULDN'T COME OUT.

A LOT OF THE SOCIAL MEDIA BEEF WAS GOING ON AND NOW WHEN THEY GET OUT, INTO THE COMMUNITY, IT'S NOW GOT TO SHOW WHO I AM.

NOBLE SAYS SOMETHING IMPORTANT WITH STREET ADDICTION.

IT IS AN ADDICTION PEOPLE HAVE WITH BEING ON THE STREETS BUT ON TOP OF THAT IT IS A MENTALITY IT IS A MINDSET THEY HAVE.

WHEN I WAS GROWING UP FOOTBALL WAS IT.

BASKETBALL, BEING AN ATHLETE.

THESE KIDS DON'T PLAY SPORTS NO MORE.

THEY DON'T HAVE A DESIRE TO COMPETE.

BUT NOW IT'S MORE LIKE I WAS OUTSIDE SQUEEZING OFF 10 ROUNDS LAST NIGHT.

THEY BRAG ABOUT THAT.

IT'S BECOME NORMALIZED.

THAT IS WHAT I'VE SEEN OVER THE LAST SIX MONTHS IN SYRACUSE.

JUST LIKE NONSENSE.

>> YOU MENTIONED THE SPORTS IS AN AVENUE FOR ENERGY.

IS THE LACK OF ENGAGEMENT IN SPORTS A PRODUCT OF THOSE OPPORTUNITIES NOT EXISTING IN SYRACUSE?

OR ARE KIDS YOUNG PEOPLE IN PARTICULAR JUST NOT GRAVITATING TOWARD THEM?

>> PEOPLE ARE NOT GRAVITATING TOWARDS THAT.

>> WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

>> IT STARTS AT HOME.

IT DOESN'T START WITH THE POLICE OFFICER.

IT DOESN'T START WITH THE MAYOR.

WE GREW UP IT STARTS WITH YOUR MOTHER, YOUR FATHER.

SOMETIMES PEOPLE DON'T HAVE EITHER ONE AT HOME.

GRANDMOTHER RAISING THEM.

STILL DOESN'T GIVE YOU AN EXCUSE.

IT STARTS AT HOME.

YOU GOT TO RAISE YOUR FAMILY.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE A FAMILY MEET WHICH IS OUR COMMUNITY MEETING.

YOU GOT TO GET YOUR KIDS.

YOU GOT TO GET YOUR KIDS INTO ACTIVITIES.

I COME FROM A SINGLE HOME.

MY MOM PUT ME IN MARTIAL ARTS AND FOOTBALL.

I DIDN'T HAVE TIME OFF.

SHE KEPT ME BUSY.

AND THEN WHEN I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO GET OUT OF LINE SHE STRAIGHTENED ME OUT OR I HAD UNCLES THAT STRAIGHTENED ME OUT.

WE HAD A FAMILY THAT KEPT ME IN LINE THAT IS MISSING.

YOU HAVE AN UNCLE PULLING A 13-YEAR-OLD TO GO SELL DRUGSES.

THE WHEN THE FAMILY IS THROWN OUT IT'S GOING TO LEAK OUT INTO THE COMMUNITY AND EXPAND.

AND IT TOOK YEARS BUT NOW WE'RE SEEING THAT.

TO PUT THEM IN THE CORNER OR GIVE THEM A VIDEO GAME AND NOT GIVE THEM PRINCIPLES HOW TO LIVE, NOW WE'RE SEEING THE OUTCOME OF DOING THAT NOT RAISING YOUR CHILDREN.

>> SHERIFF, ARE YOU SEEING YOUNGER AND YOUNGER OFFENDERS COMMITTING GUN VIOLENCE IN OTHER VIOLENT CRIMES?

>> WE ARE.

AND AGAIN THIS COULD OPEN UP ANOTHER TWO OR THREE CONVERSATIONS.

BUT BECAUSE OF BAIL REFORM, BECAUSE OF RAISE THE AGE INITIATIVE -- >> AND RAISE THE AGE HAS TO DO WITH HOW 16 AND 17-YEAR-OLDS.

>> ARE NO LONGER INITIALLY BROUGHT INTO THE ADULT CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

AND DON'T GET ME WRONG.

WE REALIZED WE NEEDED TO LOOK AT THAT.

PRIOR TO US PASSING THE RAISE THE AGE INITIATIVE IT WAS JUST US IN NORTH CAROLINA THE ONLY TWO STATES LEFT IN THE COUNTRY THAT STILL TREATED 16 AND 17-YEAR-OLDS AS ADULTS.

I LIKE LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE WE RUSHED INTO SWITCHING OVER.

AND WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW IF YOU TALK TO THE OFFICERS ON THE STREETS OR THE DEPUTIES ON THE STREETS, WHEN A VEHICLE IS PULLED OVER AND THERE IS A STOLEN HANDGUN OR A CRIME GUN IN THAT VEHICLE, IF THERE'S SOMEONE IN THAT VEHICLE UNDER THE AGE OF 18, I WILL GUARANTEE YOU TODAY THAT THAT IS THE PERSON THAT IS GOING TO TAKE CREDIT THAT IS MY GUN THAT IS NOT THEIR GUN IT'S MY GUN AND THAT IS DONE FOR A REASON BECAUSE THERE IS LESS CONSEQUENCES AFFILIATED WITH SOMEONE UNDER THE AGE OF 18 YOU KNOW.

AND WE GET FRUSTRATED ENOUGH WITH THOSE OVER THE AGE OF 18 DEALING WITH VIOLENT CRIMES AND SOME OF THE CRIMES THAT ARE NON-QUALIFYING TO BE HELD, I KNOW THERE WAS RECENT DATA THAT CAME OUT AND JUST FROM RUNNING A JAIL EVERYDAY, I MEAN I CAN SHARE A STORY WITH YOU EVERY SINGLE DAY ABOUT HOW THE BAIL REFORM INITIATIVE IS FAILED AND IT'S NOT WORKING.

JUST THE DAY BEFORE YESTERDAY, WE HAD AN INDIVIDUAL BROUGHT IN ON A WARRANT WHO SHOULD HAVE BEEN HELD BECAUSE THE SYSTEM DOESN'T ALLOW THAT HE WAS RELEASED AND HE WALKED DOWN THE STREET AND COMMITTED A BURGLARY TO A NEIGHBORING BUSINESS FROM OUR FACILITY WHERE HE WAS RELEASED FROM.

AND ATTEMPTED TO STEAL A MOTOR VEHICLE TO GET AWAY.

IT'S EVERYDAY WE HAVE A DIFFERENT STORY.

THERE'S SO MANY THINGS HAPPENING HERE WHETHER WE TALK ABOUT THE FAMILY DYNAMICS.

THE LACK OF GETTING KIDS INVOLVED IN THINGS, TO CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM AND THE RAISE THE AGE AND BAIL, ALL THESE THINGS TOGETHER HAVE CREATED THIS MESS THAT WE HAVE BEFORE US RIGHT NOW.

AND I CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO ALARM ANYBODY, BUT WE'VE GOT TO GET PEOPLE HAVE TO FEEL SAFE IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD.

WHEN PEOPLE DON'T FEEL SAFE NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.

AND WE LIVE IN AN THE MOST BEAUTIFUL PART OF THE COUNTRY BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO SOMEHOW WORK TOGETHER AS A COMMUNITY TO GET THIS UNDER CONTROL.

>> WANT TO SAY SOMETHING?

>> WHEN WE LOOK AT THE DATA AROUND BAIL REFORM OR RAISE THE AGE AND WHAT IS HAPPENING IN COMMUNITIES, AND WE SEE THIS TREND IN GUN VIOLENCE THAT HAS BEEN INCREASING NATIONWIDE, WE -- THAT IS NOT UNIQUE TO NEW YORK.

AS WE SAID BEFORE, THESE POLL I ISES ARE BEING IMPLEMENTED IN NEW YORK BUT NOT NECESSARILY NATIONWIDE.

SO IT'S NOT UNIQUE TO NEW YORK THAT WE'RE SEEING THIS INCREASE IN GUN VIOLENCE.

AND I THINK LOOKING AT BAIL REFORM AND GUN VIOLENCE TOGETHER IS USEFUL SO WE CAN IDENTIFY AREAS WHERE WE NEED TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS AND ALSO TAKING A LOOK AT THE GUN VIOLENCE AS A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS.

YOU TALKED ABOUT FAMILIES NOT BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

AND YOU TALKED ABOUT THE OPIOID CRISIS BEING A PLAGUE.

BUT WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT GUN VIOLENCE AS A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS OR BEING ABLE TO LOOK AT THIS AND THE SOCIAL ISSUES THAT ARE REALLY DRIVING A LOT OF THIS VIOLENCE AS WELL.

AND WHEN WE LOOK AT FAMILIES THAT ARE NOT DOING WHAT WE MIGHT WANT THEM TO DO, WE'RE LOOKING AT AREAS WHERE CRIMINAL JUSTICE POLICIES HAVE COMPLETELY DESTROYED BLACK AND BROWN FAMILIES.

AND SO I THINK WE'RE SEEING SOME OF THE REPERCUSSIONS FROM THAT.

SO TAKING A LOOK AT THIS FROM A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS, I THINK WILL ALLOW US TO GET MORE GUNS OFF THE STREET, UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE ARE USING THOSE GUNS THAT ARE ON THE STREET AND MAYBE REPAIR SOME OF THE FAMILY DYNAMICS AND ALSO THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY DYNAMIC AS WELL.

>> STICKING WITH THE PUBLIC HELMET-FOR-IF WE HAVE A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS WITH COVID-19 ONE OF THE STRATEGY STS TO VACCINATE PEOPLE AND MITIGATION STRATEGIES.

IF WE WANT TO TREAT GUN VIOLENCE AS A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS WHAT IS THE EQUIVALENT TO A VACCINE?

IS IT THE DISTRACTIONS.

BOOKING PEOPLE SOLID WITH JOBS OR PROGRAMS?

WHAT ELSE LOOKS LIKE THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE?

>> BOTH THE CHIEF AND SHERIFF INDICATED YOU CAN'T ARREST YOUR WAY OUT OF THIS.

YOU CAN'T JUST SLAP A SPORTS PROGRAM AT A KID AND SAY THIS IS GOING TO FIX THE GUN VIOLENCE.

IT HAS TO BE A WHOLE PLETHORA OF THOSE INITIATIVES TO FIND THAT PUZZLE PIECE PUT THEM TOGETHER AND ALLOW CHILDREN TO BE CHILDREN AGAIN.

ALLOW THEM TO HAVE THOSE OUTLETS THAT WILL BE PRODUCTIVE AND NOT VIOLENT.

AND I THINK IF WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT THAT AND WE'RE GOING TO TALK TO LAW ENFORCEMENT, WE ARE GOING TO TALK TO COMMUNITIES THEN WE NEED TO TAKE OUR TIME IN UNDERSTANDING HOW POLICIES HAVE IMPACTED COMMUNITIES.

AND DO SO IN A WAY THAT CAN GET THESE GUNS OFF THE STREETS.

>> CAN ANY OF THAT BE DONE IN A SHORT-TERM RESPONSE?

OR ARE THOSE ALL LONG-TERM SOLUTIONS?

>> I THINK ANY OF US WOULD HAVE SHORT-TERM AND LONG-TERM SOLUTIONS WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE HAPPENING I THINK SHORT-TERM, VIOLENCE INTERRUPTERS WHICH ARE A GROUP OF WHEN DONE RIGHT, A GROUP OF HIGHLY TRAINED INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE FAMILIAR WITH COMMUNITY DYNAMICS, WHO ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND ARE ABLE TO HELP FOLKS NAVIGATE OUT OF DANGEROUS PATHWAYS.

SO THEY ARE CREDIBLE WITHIN THEIR COMMUNITY.

THEY ARE BELIEVED.

THEY ARE TRUSTED.

AND THEY CAN BRIDGE THOSE GAPS BETWEEN COMMUNITY AND LAW ENFORCEMENT.

THAT WOULD BE A SHORT-TERM GOAL.

AND THEN LONG-TERM, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THESE POLICIES.

>> YOU'VE SAID IN PUBLIC COMMENTS ABOUT HOW YOUR JOB IS TO BRING TOGETHER STAKEHOLDERS ACROSS VARIOUS INTERESTS.

SO WHAT SEEMS TO YOU LIKE SOME OF THE RESOURCES THAT NEED TO BE TAPPED OUTSIDE OF JUST LAW ENFORCEMENT TO ADDRESS GUN VIOLENCE AND WHO ARE YOU TALKING TO IN THE CITY OF SYRACUSE?

>> OVER THE PAST SIX MONTHS WE HAVE DONE AN ASSESSMENT OF SUBURB AND THE GUN VIOLENCE AND THE CVI'S COMMUNITY VIOLENCE INTERVENTION ORGANIZATIONS AND HOW HAVE THEY IMPACTED SYRACUSE.

THE BIGGEST PROBLEM THAT WE'VE SEEN WHICH IS CONCERNING, IS THE CVI'S IN SYRACUSE HAVE ONLY SERVICED 18% OF OUR POPULATION THAT ARE DEALING WITH GUNS.

WHICH TELLS US NUMBER ONE, WE HAVE NOT PROBABLY PUT ENOUGH MONEY INTO THE RIGHT POCKETS OF THE CITY.

SO THERE ARE A LOT OF GAPS.

NUMBER TWO, FINDING OUT WHY THE GAPS ARE THERE, WHY WEREN'T WE FOCUS ON SERVICING THESE PEOPLE?

HOW WERE THEY MISSED?

WE'RE MISSING OVER 80% OF THE COMMUNITY THAT ARE DEALING WITH GUN VIOLENCE, VICTIMS OF GUN VIOLENCE.

SO NOW YOU HAVE TO -- AND TO ME THERE'S NO SHORT-TERM ANSWER.

THE CREDIBLE MESSENGERS ARE IMPORTANT.

BUT THE LONG-TERM IS MAKING SURE YOU GET THE PROPER DATA OF THE CITY OF SYRACUSE OR ANY CITY YOU ARE IN, COUNTY.

AND FOCUS ON WHERE THE PROBLEM IS.

SOME PEOPLE SAY WE WANT TO SERVICE THERE'S A PROBLEM EVERYWHERE.

THERE'S HOTSPOTS AS THE CHIEF SAID.

THERE'S DIFFERENT HOTSPOTS IN EVERY AREA.

TAKING OUR RESOURCES AND FOCUSING ON THOSE AREAS, AND MAKING SURE THAT IT DOES THAT SPREAD.

I HAD A CONVERSATION IN WASHINGTON D.C. ABOUT CVI'S AND WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING.

AND SOMEONE WANTED THINGS DONE QUICKLY.

WHEN YOU HAVE CANCER, THE DOCTOR DON'T JUST CUT YOU OPEN.

THEY HAVE TO COME UP WITH A STRATEGY BEFORE THEY CUT YOU OPEN.

IF THEY CUT YOU OPEN I'M NOT A DOCTOR BUT WE KNOW THE CANCER WILL SPREAD.

WE CAN'T COME UP WITH THE QUICK SOLUTIONS, THESE GIMMICKS BECAUSE GUNS IS NOT A GAME.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE SEEN THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WITH GIMMICKS SAYING THEY ARE CREDIBLE MESSENGERS BUT IT IS A GIMMICK.

NOW WE HAVE TO GET SERIOUS ABOUT IT FOCUS ON THESE AREAS NOW THAT WE HAVE DATA COMING UP WITH A STRATEGY THAT WILL WORK THAT IS INTENTIONAL MAKING SURE THE CVI'S THE COMMUNITY VIOLENCE INTERRUPTERS OR ORGANIZATION HAVE THE RESOURCES AND THE CAPACITY TO DO THE THINGS THEY NEED TO DO.

WHAT I'VE ALSO SEEN WE'LL GIVE A COMMUNITY ORGANIZATION A LUMP SUM OF MONEY BUT THEN WE'RE NOT GIVING THEM THE CAPACITY TO OPERATE WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

SOME NEED TRAINING ON BUSINESS ON OPERATIONS.

YOU KNOW YOU HAVE C.E.O.S OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE NOW ON THE GROUND.

IF YOU HAVE C.E.O.S LIKE THE SHERIFF, YOU CAN'T GO INTO THE PRISON AND LOCK PEOPLE UP YOU ARE WORKING ADMINISTRATIVELY.

WE NEED TO SEE THAT ALSO IN OUR CVI'S IF WE'RE GOING TO SEE CHANGE WE HAVE TO HAVE BETTER STRUCTURE HOW WE DO THAT AND HOW WE SUPPORT THE COMMUNITY.

>> IS THAT AN ISSUE OF DISTRIBUTION OF RESOURCES, A MORE EQUITABLE ONE, IS THAT A POLITICAL CHALLENGE MOVING FORWARD?

BECAUSE IF YOU KNOW WHERE THE PROBLEMS ARE, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE PROBLEM OF GETTING THE RESOURCES TO THE RIGHT PLACE IS A QUESTION OF MAKING SURE ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE DISTRIBUTING MONEY CORRECTLY?

>> I THINK ELECTED OFFICIALS HAVE DISTRIBUTED THE MONEY.

I THINK EVERY COUNTY, CITY, HAS TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S GOING TO THE PROPER AREA.

I HAVE NOT SEEN AND DOC WILL HELP ME OUT WHERE WE SIT DOWN AND LOOK AT DATA BEFORE WE COME UP WITH A STRATEGY.

I PLAYED FOOTBALL.

THERE IS NO WAY WE'RE NOT WATCHING TAPE BEFORE WE COME UP WITH PLAYS FOR THE GAME ON SATURDAY.

WE'RE NOT EVEN WATCHING TAPE.

WE'RE JUST GOING INTO THE GAME AND AS A FREE-FOR-ALL.

WE HAVE TO BE STRATEGIC AND INTENTIONAL.

I CANNOT SAY THAT IS POLITICAL OR NOT.

DOC HAS BEEN DOING IT FOR A WHILE AND I WOULD ASK HER HOW DO WE MAKE SURE WE FUND THE PROPER PROGRAMS WHERE IT DOESN'T BECOME POLITICAL.

WE THROW THE CARROT AND ALL THE ORGANIZATIONS ARE WRITING GRANTS AND COMPETING TO GET THIS CARROT.

WE CAN DO THIS PROGRAM AND DO IT GREAT AND SELL THE PROGRAM.

BUT THEN AT THE END OF THE DAY WE ARE ONLY SERVICING 18% THAT IS A PROBLEM.

>> BEFORE WE WENT LIVE, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW SOME OF YOUR SUCCESS ENDS UP BITING YOU IN THE BUTT BECAUSE OF THE AVAILABILITY TO FUNDING.

>> WE SEE A DECREASE IN CRIME AND WE'RE FORTUNATE FOR THE MOST PART OUTSIDE OF SOME OF THESE ISSUES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY.

WE HAVE LOW WHETHER PART ONE CRIMES WE HAVE LOW NUMBERS IN OUR COMMUNITY.

SO MOST OF THE PEOPLE WE DON'T QUALIFY FOR FUNDING BECAUSE ON PAPER, IT APPEARS THAT WE HAVE A LOW CRIME RATE.

WHICH IS A GOOD THING.

BUT IT SOMETIMES IF YOU TRY TO EXPLAIN THAT TO THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE THEY KNOW THERE'S CRIME.

I THINK TO EVERYONE ELSE'S POINT, IT TAKES SO MUCH MORE THAN JUST ONE ENTITY.

I WILL SPEAK ON BEHALF OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.

WE ARE CONSIDERED NOT CERTAINLY NOT BY THE PANELISTS HERE TODAY BUT PEOPLE THINK IN THE COMMUNITY LET'S CALL THE POLICE.

WE'RE DEALING WITH THE HEROIN EPIDEMIC USING NARCAN ON A REGULAR BASIS.

WE HAVE A SEVERE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE PLAGUES THIS COUNTRY.

LACK OF MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAMS.

LACK OF TREATMENT PROGRAMS.

LACK OF FACILITIES.

WE HAVE A LABOR SHORTAGE.

I MEAN EVERY LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY ACROSS THIS COUNTRY WE JUST GOT A MEMO FROM THE NATIONAL SHERIFF'S ASSOCIATION WE ARE APPROACHING CRISIS NUMBERS WHEN WE CAN'T STAFF JAILS OR POLICE DEPARTMENTS LIKE SYRACUSE, THE CHIEF SAID IT, STAFFING SHORTAGE HE DOESN'T HAVE HIS GUNS ON THE STREET AS MUCH AS HE WANTS.

ALL THE THINGS WE RESPOND TO AND PEOPLE EXPECT WHEN THE POLICE GET HERE THEY ARE GOING TO FIX THE PROBLEM.

WE ARE ONLY A BAND-AID.

AND THEN LIKE I SAID WITH BAIL REFORM AND A LOT OF THE POLICE REFORM WE SAW, IT'S BEEN VERY DIFFICULT FOR US TO RECRUIT MEMBERS TO JOIN THE CAREER.

SO THAT GETS FRUSTRATING BECAUSE WE'RE TRYING TO DO MORE AND HELP MORE FACETS OF THE COMMUNITY AND WE DON'T HAVE THE STAFFING WE HAD FOUR YEARS AGO.

NONE OF US DO.

WE ARE ALL DOING MORE WITH LESS.

AND IT'S JUST IT -- I GUESS IT GETS FRUSTRATING AT TIMES BECAUSE WE KNOW WE CAN DO THIS.

AND THEN TO YOUR POINT, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE SEES A PROBLEM AND THROW MONEY AT IT.

THAT IS A GOOD THING BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE A PLAN IF YOU DON'T HAVE A PLAN FOR WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO TO MAKE SURE THAT MONEY IS BEING SPENT EFFECTIVELY IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK AND SOMETIMES THAT CAN BE POLITICAL N AN ELECTION YEAR, VARIOUS LEVELS OF WHETHER IT'S NATIONAL, STATE OR LOCAL, THEY GIVE GRANTS OUT AND IT MAKES A GREAT PHOTO-OP BUT ARE WE SOLVING THE PROBLEM IF IT WE ARE NOT ALL WORKING TOGETHER?

>> IN THE PACKAGE WE SAW REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE CITY OF SYRACUSE TALK ABOUT IF THEY HAD THE RESOURCES TO PUT A COP ON EVERY BLOCK THAT COULD ADDRESS GUN CONTROL AND GUN VIOLENCE.

IS THERE MORE PRACTICAL VERSION OF THAT?

IS THERE A VERSION WHERE IF YOU HAD THE RESOURCES YOU COULD BE PATROLLING MORE?

>> I MEAN, AGAIN, ALL I'VE EVER DONE IS BEEN A POLICE OFFICER.

I KNOW SOMETIMES I DEBATE WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE.

AND I'M ALWAYS LOOKING AT IT FROM A COP'S VIEW.

BUT WE KNOW THAT WE CAN'T DO THIS JOB ALONE.

IF WE TALK ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH FOR A SECOND.

THE ONE THING WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO IS ADAPT SO THAT INSTEAD OF IF THERE'S THAT MENTAL HEALTH CALL THAT MAY BE YOU DON'T NEED LAW ENFORCEMENT TO GO TO, YOU COULD SEND A TRAINED MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL.

BUT THEN THE PROBLEM IS THAT PERSON'S LIFE IS AT RISK NOW.

AND SO IF WE NEVER HAD TO GO ON ANOTHER MENTAL HEALTH CALL THAT WOULD BE A GREAT THING FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT.

BUT WE KNOW THAT IS NOT REALITY.

BECAUSE MOST OF THE CALLS COME IN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT OR THE WEEKEND AND THERE IS NOT ALWAYS A CASE WORKER AVAILABLE.

WE'RE THROWING LAW ENFORCEMENT INTO A SITUATION WHERE WE'RE NOT HIGHLY TRAINED IN THAT.

WE GET A LITTLE BIT OF TRAINING BUT JUST LIKE I SAID THERE'S SO MANY MOVING PARTS HERE.

AND WE NEED TO FIGURE THIS I SAY WE, SOCIETY NEEDS TO FIGURE THIS OUT.

BECAUSE WE'VE GOT TO WORK TOGETHER.

WE DO.

>> PROFESSOR, CONVERSELY TO THAT IDEA OF POLICE PRESENCE DETERRING CRIME IT'S WELL DOCUMENTED THAT THE SAFEST COMMUNITIES ARE THE COMMUNITIES WITH THE LEAST POLICE PRESENCE.

WHY DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?

>> WELL, I THINK RIGHT NOW IF WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT IS HAPPENING WE SAW AFTER GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH WE SAW A LOT OF PUBLIC UNREST AND PUBLIC LOSING FAITH IN POLICE OFFICERS.

AND GIVEN THE SHORTAGE OF POLICE OFFICERS AND GIVEN REPORTS OFFICERS ARE EXPERIENCING THE LOWEST LEVEL OF MORALE THEY HAVE HAD IN QUITE SOMETIME IT'S DIFFICULT TO REBUILD AND REPAIR THAT TRUST.

IF YOU HAVE A COMMUNITY THAT IS INHERENTLY DISTRUTHFUL OF POLICE IT IS IT LIMITS THE ABILITY TO DO THE JOB PROPERLY.

IT BECOMES AN ARM OF ENFORCEMENT.

WE ARE NOT ABLE TO WORK COLLECTIVELY IN MULTIDISCIPLINARY TEAMS WHEN THAT IS HAPPENING.

AND I THINK TO THE POINT ABOUT FUNDING, THAT WE ARE OPERATING OUT OF FEAR.

AND ANYTIME HISTORICALLY ANYTIME WE'VE SEEN CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM RESPOND WITH FEAR AT THE CORE, WE OPEN UP THESE SPACES FOR MORE VIOLENCE, FOR MORE INJUSTICE FOR MORE ECONOMIC WASTE.

BECAUSE WE'RE NOT USING DATA-DRIVEN METHODS.

WE ARE NOT INVESTING IN LONG-TERM SOLUTIONS.

AND EVERYONE HAS INDICATED THAT THERE ARE IMMEDIATE THINGS YOU CAN DO TO ADDRESS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THERE IS A HOMICIDE.

BUT YOU AREN'T ABLE TO PREVENT THEM IF YOU ARE NOT INVESTING LONG-TERM.

AND YOU KNOW, I REALLY WANT TO BE CLEAR NOT TO DEHUMANIZE THESE NUMBERS AND THESE EXPERIENCES BECAUSE BABIES ARE DYING.

PEOPLE ARE DYING.

AND THAT RIPPLE EFFECT OF TRAUMA THAT HAPPENS THROUGH COMMUNITIES WHETHER IT BE THE FAMILIES OR THROUGH THE FIRST-RESPONDERS WHO TREAT THEM OR SCHOOLS WHO ARE MISSING A CHILD OR YOU KNOW, DOWN THE LINE THAT THESE HAVE SUCH GREAT EFFECTS IF WE ARE NOT USING EVIDENCE-BASED DATA TO RESPOND TO CRIME AND IF WE'RE NOT USING TRAUMA-INFORMED CARE, THEN WE ARE MISSING THE MARK.

>> DO YOU THINK WE'RE GRAVITATING TOWARD TOO MUCH TOWARD ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE AND HIGH PROFILE STORIES?

>> WE SEE THAT HAPPENING ALL AROUND.

WHEN WE LOOK AT THINGS LIKE BAIL REFORM, THE SHERIFF CAN POINT TO A PLETHORA OF CASES WHERE HE IS SEEING BAIL REFORM NOT WORK.

BUT WHEN WE LOOK AT THE DATA OVERALL STATE-WIDE WE ARE SEEING ABOUT AND I HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THE MOST RECENT DATA YOU AND I WILL HAVE TO SIT DOWN AND FLEDGE THROUGH THIS, WE'RE SEEING 2% OF FOLKS ON BAIL COMMITTING A VIOLENT CRIME LATER.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE SHOULDN'T DISCOUNT OR LOOK AT WAYS TO ADDRESS IT SO THAT 2% IS ZERO.

BUT WE I THINK, TAKING EVERYTHING IN CONTEXT AND THERE ARE WAYS TO COLLECT THAT ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE SO THAT METHODOLOGICALLY SO IT MEANS SOMETHING SO IT CAN INFORM WHAT WE'RE DOING IN WAYS THAT IS PRODUCTIVE.

>> THE IDEA OF POLICE MISTRUSTING, SOMETHING WAS WAS HIGHLIGHTED IN THE WAKE OF THE GEORGE FLOYD KILLING.

HOW ARE YOU IN THE CITY OF SYRACUSE GOING ABOUT TRYING TO BRIDGE THAT GAP ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THE CITY HAS HAD HIGH PROFILE EXAMPLES THAT GIVE THE POPULOUS REASONS NOT TO TRUST ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE PEOPLE OF COLOR?

>> NUMBER ONE, THE CITY'S SPD DOES A COMMUNITY WALK-THRU.

NUMBER TWO, YESTERDAY WE HAD OUR FIRST MEETING OF EMPOWERING NEIGHBORS FOR SAFER STREETS WHICH WE'RE PARTNERING WITH SYRACUSE POLICE DEPARTMENT TO ACTUALLY GO IN NEIGHBORHOODS AND HEAR FROM NEIGHBORS ON HOW WE CAN WORK TOGETHER TO COMBAT GUN VIOLENCE.

I THINK WITH POLICE, IF WE GIVE COMMUNITY A VOICE IN A HEALTHY WAY IN A HEALTHY ENVIRONMENT WHAT WE'RE DOING IS SMALL GROUPS.

NO MORE THAN 12 PEOPLE.

50 PEOPLE IN A ROOM WITH POLICE OFFICERS WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH NOW IS NOT HEALTHY.

BECAUSE IT BECOMES A SHOW.

AND NOT ACTUALLY US FOCUSING ON THE PROBLEM AND COMING UP WITH A SOLUTION.

SO WE WILL BE DOING THE SMALL GROUPS FOR THE REST OF THE YEAR, ABOUT TWICE A MONTH.

OUR NEXT ONE IS ON THE NORTH SIDE AROUND BUTTERNUT.

WE WILL BE TALKING TO A LIEUTENANT AND THESE ARE THE LIEUTENANTS AND CAPTAINS NOT THE CHIEFS BUT THE OFFICERS THAT ARE RESPONDING THAT ARE ON THE GROUND TO TO BUILD THOSE RELATIONSHIPS, THEY HAVE TO SEE THE COMMUNITY THE NEIGHBORS HAVE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A HEALTHY DIALOGUE WITH THEM TOGETHER AND COME UP WITH A SOLUTION TOGETHER.

NOW THEIR VOICE IS BEING HEARD ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE COMMUNITY.

FOR EXAMPLE AS WE DROVE THROUGH THE SOUTH SIDE LAST NIGHT, SOME AREAS ARE VERY DARK.

THAT IS NOT JUST A POLICE ISSUE.

THAT IS A COMMUNITY ISSUE.

THAT IS THE CITY ISSUE.

SO BEING AWARE OF THAT NOW WE CAN TAKE THAT BACK TO THE MAYOR AND THE DEPUTY MAYOR AND THE CHIEF AND SAY, HEY THIS IS A CONCERNS OF THE NEIGHBORS.

THEY ARE SAYING THEY ARE SEEING A HIGH VOLUME OF ACTIVITY IN A DARK AREA THAT COMES FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD STEPPING UP AND WORKING WITH THE POLICE.

I KNOW THE POLICE ARE THE SAME WAY.

THEY DON'T WANT TO PATROL IN DARKNESS.

THEY DON'T WANT TO GO DOWN THE STREET AND IT'S DARK.

THEY WOULD LOVE IF IT'S LIGHT ALL DAY BECAUSE YOU CAN SEE WHAT IS GOING ON.

THOSE ARE EXAMPLES OF WAYS.

CALL ME CRAZY BUT WHEN I WAS GROWING UP WE HAD OFFICER FRIENDLY IN THE SCHOOL AND A DARE PROGRAM.

THOSE PROGRAMS WHAT LED ME TO WANT TO THINK ABOUT BEING IN LAW ENFORCEMENT SEEING OFFICER FRIENDLY COME TO OUR SCHOOL FROM FIRST GRADE TO SIXTH GRADE.

SEEING THAT OFFICER IN A DIFFERENT CONTEXT.

ALSO THE DARE PROGRAM KNOWING ABOUT DRUGS AND THE OFFICER THAT CAME TO OUR SCHOOL OUR MIDDLE SCHOOL TALKED ABOUT GUNS.

AND WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT MORE.

WHY?

BUT IF THE FAMILY DYNAMIC IS NOT THERE IT'S GREAT TO HAVE THAT OFFICER MAYBE IN THE SCHOOL TO TALK ABOUT GUNS AND NOT TOUCHING A GUN OR WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU SEE A GUN.

>> ACTUALLY EARLY ON IN MY CAREER I WAS A DARE OFFICER FOR SIX YEARS IN ONE OF OUR LARGER SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN OUR COUNTY.

YOU LOOK AT IN FUNDING WHAT TOOK THAT AWAY.

LACK OF FUNDING TOOK THOSE PROGRAMS AWAY.

IN THE WAKE OF THE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS WE'VE SEEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND THE ONE THAT CHANGED THE WORLD FOR US IN OUR COUNTY WAS THE PARKLAND SHOOTING AND AFTER THAT, THERE WAS A HUGE PUSH TO PUT POLICE OFFICERS IN THE SCHOOLS.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY, WE'RE IN THE SCHOOLS FOR A DIFFERENT REASON NOW.

BACK IN THE DAY, AND NOT THAT LONG AGO NOT THAT EITHER OF US ARE THAT OLD BACK IN THE DAY YOU HAD THE DOORS OF SPRING OR FALL DAY YOU HAD THE DOORS PROPPED OPEN AND THE POLICE OFFICER WAS WITH THE KIDS.

NOW, WE ARE THERE STRICTLY TO KEEP THAT BUILDING SAFE.

WE FOCUS ON SECURITY.

WE HAVE 114 MEMBERS OF THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE THAT JUST ARE IN A SCHOOL SECURITY UNIT ALONE TO COVER.

WE ARE IN ALMOST EVERY DISTRICT IN THE COUNTY WITH A EXCEPTION OF A COUPLE.

BUT OUR GOAL IS FOCUSED ALMOST SOLELY ON SECURITY.

SO WE'RE NOT TEACHING WE ARE NOT INTERACTING WITH THE KIDS AS WE SHOULD BE BECAUSE WE ARE SO FOCUSED ON SINGLE POINT OF ENTRY AND THE PERIMETERS ARE CLEAR.

THINGS LIKE THAT.

IF THERE'S INTRUDER OR ANY OTHER BECAUSE THEY DO DEAL WITH OTHER ISSUES.

WHETHER IT'S CUSTODIAL ISSUES OR ORDERS OF PROTECTION ISSUES OR FIGHTS BREAK OUT IN THE SCHOOL.

BUT WE ARE NOT FOCUSING ON THE BUILDING THAT POSITIVE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE KIDS.

SOME OF THE RURAL DISTRICTS WE CAN DO THAT.

BUT THE BIGGER DISTRICTS WE CAN'T DO THAT.

AND THAT IS PART OF IT.

AND THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO MENTION ONE THING WE'VE STRIVED FOR AND WE STRUGGLE WITH AND EVERY POLICE DEPARTMENT DOES IS TRYING TO GET A DIVERSE WORKFORCE.

STATISTICALLY POLICE DEPARTMENTS AND I DON'T KNOW THE NUMBERS AND I'M GOING TO GUESS PROBABLY 95% OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENTS ARE PREDOMINANTLY 95% WHITE MALE.

AND WE WORK HARD WE GO INTO THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND WE GO TO CHURCH GROUPS.

WE WORK VERY HARD TO TRY TO GET PEOPLE OF COLOR TO JOIN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND WE HAVE VERY LITTLE SUCCESS WITH THAT.

AND MAYBE YOU WOULD HAVE A REASON AS TO WHY?

WE STRUGGLE WITH THAT.

I WOULD WANT NOTHING MORE THAN TO HAVE A DIVERSE POLICE LAW ENFORCEMENT DIVISION AT THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE BUT I DON'T.

ON THE JAIL SIDE WE DO MUCH, MUCH BETTER.

OBVIOUSLY IN THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE WE RUN THE CORRECTIONAL FACILITY.

ALSO IN OUR WORKFORCE, OUR MAKEUP OF CORRECTIONS OFFICERS IS EXTREMELY DIVERSE.

WE'RE PROUD OF THAT AND MOST COUNTIES FOLLOW THAT MODEL.

BUT WHEN IT COMES TO LAW ENFORCEMENT, DEPUTIES OR POLICE OFFICERS, WE STRUGGLE WITH HAVING A DIVERSE WORKFORCE AND I THINK THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENTS ALL STRUGGLE WITH THAT.

>> I THINK IT COMES FROM BACKGROUND.

SO IF I COME FROM THE INNER-CITY, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT GET THROUGH, YOU GOT TO HAVE DECENT CREDIT, YOU GOT TO HAVE YOUR BACKGROUND HAS TO BE CLEAN, AND LIVING IN A URBAN COMMUNITY YOU MIGHT HAVE MADE MISTAKES.

YOU MIGHT HAVE DONE THINGS THAT YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE EARLY IN YOUR LIFE -- >> THERE'S PEER PRESSURE, TOO.

FROM YOUR FRIENDS THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO BE A POLICE OFFICER.

AND THAT IS THE OTHER PART YOU ABOUT TO BE A COP?

YOU GOT THESE SAYINGS THAT PUSH YOU AWAY.

ONE THING I LIKED AT THE CITY HAS DONE IS WHEN YOU HAVE A SCHOOL THAT WHERE KIDS CAN COME OUT AND GO INTO THE CADET PROCESS EARLY CADET PROCESS SO THE EARLIER YOU CAPTURE THESE KIDS' ATTENTION AND GET THAT POSITIVE MOTIVATION TO BE IN LAW ENFORCEMENT IS BETTER.

BECAUSE THE WRONG DECISIONS THAT I MADE WAS BETWEEN 17 AND 21.

THAT IS WHEN YOU START DOING STUPID THINGS THAT END UP CATCHING UP WITH YOU AND NOW YOU ARE 22 AND WANT TO GO INTO LAW ENFORCEMENT.

CATCHING THAT GROUP EARLY AND LETTING THEM KNOW YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOUR CREDIT CLEAN AND MAKE SURE YOU STAY POSITIVE AND STAY AROUND POSITIVE PEOPLE.

YOU MIGHT GOT TO CHANGE YOUR ENVIRONMENT IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT TO DO.

AND I HAD AN UNCLE THAT WAS A SHERIFF IN SYRACUSE.

AND I SEEN THE OUTCOME.

BEAUTIFUL HOME, CAR.

SELECT ANTIQUE CARS.

I'M LIKE YOU KNOW WHAT?

THAT IS THE JOB TO HAVE.

AND HE WAS HOME AND IT WAS FULFILLING TO SEE HIS HAPPINESS AND RAISING A FAMILY AND I KIND OF WANTED TO REFLECT THAT.

ALSO HAVING THAT PART AND HE WAS AFRICAN-AMERICAN, OF COURSE.

I THINK THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS SEEING THOSE POSITIVE AFRICAN-AMERICAN MALES OR FEMALES IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, TOO.

THAT CHANGES THE DYNAMIC SOMEBODY THEY KNOW.

WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BEING IN SCHOOLS HAVING A YOUNG AFRICAN-AMERICAN MALE OR A RETIRED SHERIFF WORKING THE SCHOOL NOT AS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT MAYBE COMING IN TO BE THAT OFFICER FRIENDLY AND SEEING THAT HEY, I DID IT FOR 30 YEARS.

AND LOOK WHERE I'M AT NOW.

SOMETHING POSITIVE GOT TO SEE SOMETHING POSITIVE.

>> PROFESSOR WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE CONDITIONS THAT MIGHT LEAD SOMEONE TO GRAVITATE TOWARD VIOLENT CRIME WHAT ABOUT GUN CONTROL AS A MEANS OF PREVENTING THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT ITSELF FOR SOMEONE WHO MIGHT BE INCLINED BECAUSE OF PERSONAL OR SOCIETAL PRESSURE IS THAT SOMETHING THAT PLAYS A SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN LIMITING VIOLENT CRIME MORE BROADLY?

OR CAN GUN CONTROL IN NEW YORK ONLY WORK AROUND THE MARGINS.

>> NATIONALLY WE HAVE SEEN MORE GUNS ON THE MARKET AND MORE GUNS COMING ON TO THE STREETS.

ARGUABLY YOU WOULD HAVE MORE GUN VIOLENCE WITH MORE GUNS OUT THERE.

SO WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT GUN CONTROL, REALLY I THINK IT'S ABOUT SENSIBLE GUN LAWS.

AND I THINK THAT WE HEAR TERMS LIKE GUN CONTROL AND PEOPLE START BECOMING ALARMED BUT I THINK ANYONE WOULD AGREE THAT HAVING LESS GUN VIOLENCE WOULD MAKE THE JOB SAFER FOR OFFICERS AND MAKE COMMUNITIES SAFER AS WELL.

>> SHERIFF IN ONEIDA COUNTY IS IT YOUR EXPERIENCE THAT THE GUN VIOLENCE YOU ARE SEEING IS PERPETRATED WITH ILLEGALLY OWNED GUNS?

ARE THESE LEGAL LICENSED GUN OWNERS COMMITTING CRIMES?

>> HERE IS ANOTHER TOPIC WE COULD HAVE A SHOW ON.

WHEN PEOPLE ASK ME HOW MANY OF THE GUN CRIMES IN YOUR COUNTY ARE COMMITTED BY PEOPLE WHO LEGALLY POSSESS FIREARMS?

ZERO.

AND I'M SURE EVERY OTHER COUNTY WOULD SAY THAT.

THE FRUSTRATING PART IS WHEN SOMEONE IS GOING TO COMMIT A GUN CRIME THEY ARE NOT REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT GUN LAWS.

I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT AND I'M PASSIONATE ABOUT THAT.

I AM A GUN GUY AND CARRIED A GUN ON MY BODY FOR 34 YEARS NO MATTER WHERE I AM.

UNLESS I'M IN THE SHOWER I HAVE A GUN ON MY PERSON.

I AM A FIRM BELIEVER IF YOU ARE A STABLE LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO CARRY A GUN IF YOU CHOOSE TO.

THERE'S PEOPLE THAT DISAGREE WITH ME.

BUT THAT IS MY FIRM STANCE ON THAT.

AND UNFORTUNATELY EVERY TIME A GUN LAW IS PASSED THE ONES WE'VE SEEN PASSED IN NEW YORK THEY ARE ONLY AFFECTING THE LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS.

THE PEOPLE COMMITTING THE GUN CRIMES WHETHER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A GANG-RELATED SHOOTING THEY ARE NOT CONCERNED WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES OF THIS PARTICULAR.

>> THERE IS ILLEGAL GUNS HOW DO WE GO ABOUT -- >> THE GUNS WE'RE SUING USED IN MOST CRIMES, THEY ARE BEING TRAFFICKED UP HERE FROM SOUTHERN STATES THAT IS WHERE MOST ARE COMING OUT OF.

WE HAVE SEEN A SPIKE IN GHOST GUNS.

THAT IS SOMEONE WHO IS ABLE TO BUY PIECES OF GUN PARTS AND PUT THEM TOGETHER TO MAKE A FUNCTIONING WEAPON THAT ISN'T TRACEABLE BECAUSE IT DOES NOT HAVE SERIAL NUMBERS.

BETWEEN GHOST GUNS AND GUNS TRAFFICKED FROM STATES WHERE IT'S EASY TO PURCHASE WEAPONS AND THEY ARE BROUGHT HERE.

OCCASIONALLY WE WILL HAVE A BURGLARY AND A GUN WILL BE STOLEN BUT THAT IS SUCH A SMALL NUMBER COMPARED TO LIKE I SAID ILLEGALLY TRAFFICKED GUNS INTO OUR STATE FROM OTHER STATES AND GHOST GUNS.

>> THERE'S BEEN PRESS RELEASES FROM STATE LEADERS TOUTING LAWSUITS AIMED AT GHOST GUN MANUFACTURERS, HIGHLIGHTING DIFFERENT STATE-WIDE EFFORTS TO SEIZE ILLEGAL GUNS.

ARE ANY OF THESE THINGS MOVING THE NEEDLE?

>> THEY ARE.

THE STATE POLICE AND I CANNOT SPEAK FOR THEM BUT THEY HAVE AN INITIATIVE.

THEY DO HAVE A UNIT THAT IS SPECIFICALLY DEALS WITH TRAFFICKING GUNS INTO THE STATE FROM BORDERING STATES AND SOUTHERN STATES.

AND THEY'VE GOT IMPRESSIVE NUMBERS AS TO WHAT THEY ARE TAKING AND WHAT THEY'RE SEIZING.

THAT DOES WORK.

THAT IS CRITICAL.

I JUST LIKE I SAID, I JUST GET CONCERNED WHEN SOMETHING TRAGIC HAPPENS AND WE JUST COME UP WITH ANOTHER LAW TO THROW AT IT.

BECAUSE IT'S ONLY AFFECTING THE PEOPLE WHO -- THE ONE EXAMPLE WE USE IS WHEN THEY PASSED THE LAW SAYING YOU CAN ONLY PUT SEVEN ROUNDS IN A 10-ROUND MAGAZINE.

YOU THINK SOMEONE DOING A MASS SHOOTING IS GOING TO STOP LOADING AT SEVEN BECAUSE THE LAW SAYS SO, IT DOESN'T WORK.

IT DOESN'T.

>> AND YOU MENTIONED SOME OF THE NUMBERS THAT COME OUT WITH THESE ANNOUNCEMENTS ABOUT GUNS SEIZED AND I THINK ABOUT GUN BUYBACK PROGRAMS WHERE WE HAVE "X" NUMBER OF GUNS BUT THREE ARE MUSKETS THAT HAVE BEEN TURNED IN.

>> AND THAT MUSKET MIGHT NOT BE USED IN A GANG SHOOTING.

BUT THAT WEAPON MIGHT BE USED FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE AND MAY WANT TO HARM THEMSELVES.

I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH GUN BUYBACK PROGRAMS.

THEY ARE A GREAT THING.

WE HAD ONE IN THE CITY OF UTICA AND THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF WEAPONS SEIZED.

A LOT OF THEM WERE GHOST GUNS THAT WEREN'T COMPLETELY PUT TOGETHER.

SO BUT THEY DID GET THE MONEY FOR THEM.

BUT THAT IS GOING TO PREVENT SOMEONE FROM COMMITTING A CRIME OR HARMING THEMSELVES OR SOME WITH ONE ELSE.

THAT IS A GOOD THING.

ONE MORE THING WE CAN DO THAT IS POSITIVE.

JUST LIKE THE IF WE TALK ABOUT THE HEROIN EPIDEMIC.

WE COLLECT UNUSED MEDICATIONS, HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF POUNDS.

IS SOMEONE GOING TO OVERDOSE ON THAT?

MAYBE NOT BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT CANNOT GET THE DRUG THEY ARE WANTING THEY MAY TURN TO SOMETHINGS.

ALL THINGS TOGETHER DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE CITY OF SYRACUSE WHAT IS THE EXPERIENCE OF TRYING TO GET ILLEGAL GUNS OFF THE STREETS?

>> I BELIEVE SPD HAS BEEN DOING A GREAT JOB AT ARRESTS THAT IS ONE THING.

WE CAN'T SERVICE ILLEGAL GUNS.

THERE IS NO PROGRAM TO ONLY THING TO DETER A YOUNG PERSON FROM PICKING UP A GUN IS UNDERSTANDING NUMBER ONE THERE IS OTHER CHOICES SO GIVING THEM OTHER CHOICES.

WE CAN'T SAY WE WANT TO REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE AND INCREASE OTHER CHOICES FOR THEM.

WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS SPD DOING THEIR JOB.

THEY ARE ARRESTING.

I THINK SOME OF THE BAIL REFORM HAS BEEN SOME OF THE ISSUE AND THE RAISE THE AGE.

IF A KID IN SYRACUSE IS 15 WITH A GUN OR 14, WHICH WE HAVE, THEY ARE USUALLY RELEASED.

AND WAITING TO GO TO COURT WHICH MAY TAKE TIME AND NOW THEY GET ANOTHER GUN CHARGE.

THAT'S BEEN SOME OF THE ISSUE.

WHAT ALSO HAS BEEN HELPING ON TOP OF SYRACUSE POLICE DOING THEIR PART IS FAMILY COURT AND THE DA'S OFFICE WITH A NEW PROGRAM THAT WE'RE WORKING ON NOW IS IF IT'S A FIRST-TIME GUN OFFENSE AND THEY DIDN'T SHOOT THE GUN THEY HAVE NO RECORD GET IN THE PROGRAM, STREET ADDICTION TO SERVICE THAT INDIVIDUAL OVER A YEAR SO HOPEFULLY THEY WILL NEVER PICK UP A GUN AGAIN OR EVEN THINK ABOUT CARRYING AN ILLEGAL FIREARM.

THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS.

BUT I THINK MOSTLY FOR A YOUNG PERSON WHO WE'RE SEEING YOUNG PEOPLE AND I SAY YOUNG, 14-25, TO GET THEM WE HAVE TO FIND SOMETHING ELSE.

YOU CAN'T SAY DON'T PICK UP GUNS.

PICK UP BOOKS?

WHAT ELSE ARE THEY DOING.

WE HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING SEPARATE SOMETHING DIFFERENT SOMETHING UNIQUE FOR THEM TO DO.

EVERY KID LEARNS DIFFERENTLY.

FINDING DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET THEIR MIND OFF OF GUNS.

IT IS AN ADDICTION AND THEY DON'T WANT TO STOP.

>> DO YOU THINK THERE'S ANYTHING TO THE ARGUMENT ONE OF THE REASONS WE DON'T MAKE HEADWAY IS BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN EFFORTS THAT HAVE GONE IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.

LAST YEAR WE HAD A GUN EMERGENCY FROM ANDREW CUOMO AND NOW KATHY HOCHUL IS LEADING THE STATE.

AND WE HAVE CHANGES AT THE WHITE HOUSE SO THERE'S NO CONSISTENCY THERE.

BECAUSE OF DIVIDOLOGIES.

DO WE NEED TO STICK WITH ONE PLAN?

OR DOES THIS SORT OF PIECEMEAL APPROACH MAKE SENSE?

>> I DON'T THINK WE NECESSARILY HAVE TO STICK TO ONE PLAN IF WE'RE FINDING EVIDENCE THAT SOMETHING IS NOT WORKING WE SHOULDN'T BE AFRAID TO SAY WE'VE LEARNED AND WE SHOULD SHIFT THIS WAY.

BUT I THINK IT BOILS DOWN TO THE ECONOMIC PIECE.

THAT THE SUSTAINED FUNDING IS NOT THERE.

THAT THERE IS NOT AGENCY WITHIN A COMMUNITY TO MAKE THE CHOICES BETWEEN DIFFERENT INSTITUTIONS AND MAKE THE CHOICES THAT THEY THINK WOULD BE BEN FIB FOR THEIR COMMUNITY -- BENEFICIAL FOR THEIR COMMUNITY AND THERE IS NOT NECESSARILY TRAINING AND SUPPORT TO SHOW FOLKS WHO POLICIES AND PRACTICES HAVE WORKED IN THE PAST.

>> AND WHEN YOU SAY SUSTAINED FUNDING, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT FUNDING FOR SOCIAL PROGRAMS?

OR FUNDING FOR ANTIVIOLENCE INITIATIVES?

I DON'T SEE THEM AS SEPARATE.

>> WHY?

>> MY INITIAL PUSH WAS TO HAVE GUN VIOLENCE LOOKED AT AS A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS.

>> SO YOU DISAGREE WITH THE ONONDAGA D.A.

'S PERSPECTIVE THAT WE SAW THERE ARE JUST BAD PEOPLE OUT THERE AND HE DOESN'T BELIEVE IN REHABILITATION OR THE PRODUCT OF CONDITIONS THEY HAVE BEEN BORN INTO OR GROWN-UP IN?

>> LOOK IN CLASS, WE LOOK AT WHAT THE PHILOSOPHIES OF PUNISHMENT ARE.

HE HAS HIS PHILOSOPHY OF PUNISHMENT AND FOR HIM HE SAID ENCOMPASSTATION.

BUT I THINK WE HAVE SEEN THAT ALREADY INSTANCES WHERE YOU CAN TAKE A RESTORATIVE JUSTICE APPROACH.

YOU CAN WORK WITH INDIVIDUALS.

AND THAT IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE ALL OR NOTHING.

THAT FOR AN INDIVIDUAL, THERE MAY BE INSTANCES WHERE THEY MIGHT NEED TO SIT DOWN FOR A MINUTE.

AND COOL DOWN.

BUT AFTER THAT, I DON'T THINK THAT NECESSARILY WE SHOULD WE SHOULDN'T ATTEMPT TO WORK WITH THEM.

>> SHERIFF WE'RE ALMOST OUT OF TIME.

BUT DO YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE NAVIGATING THAT SORT OF GRAY AREA BETWEEN WHERE MAYBE D.A.

FITZPATRICK IS AND THE WHERE THE PROFESSOR IS LAYING OUT A VISION FOR?

>> SURE.

I MEAN, I THINK WHETHER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GUN CRIME OR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE OR DRUG ADDICTION OR, I THINK THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT WE CAN SAVE.

I THINK WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO TRY THAT.

DON'T GET ME WRONG THERE ARE BAD PEOPLE WHO CAN NEVER BE OUT IN SOCIETY.

THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT IN SOCIETY I'M THINKING OF SPECIFIC ONES IN OUR COMMUNITY THAT SHOULD BE LOCKED UP THAT ARE NOT BECAUSE OF THE SYSTEM.

BUT I THINK WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO AT LEAST MAKE AN ATTEMPT TO HELP PEOPLE TO DO THAT.

I MEAN, I HAVE CRITICS WHO SAY IF SOMEONE IS GOING TO OVERDOSE IF THEY ARE GOING TO MAKE THAT CHOICE LEAVE THEM BE.

AS LONG AS I'M THE SHERIFF THAT IS SOMEONE'S MOTHER, DAUGHTER, FATHER, SON, BROTHER,IZAR IS WE ARE GOING TO TRY TO SAVE THEIR LIFE.

WHEN SOMEONE GETS ARRESTED AND THEY HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING VIOLENT I THINK WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO TRY TO GUIDE THEM AND HOPEFULLY MAYBE THEY WILL DO EKAY.

>> AND ARE YOU MORE OPTIMISTIC OR PESSIMISTIC?

>> GUN CRIME IS MORE DIFFICULT TO BE OPTIMISTIC.

I'M OPTIMISTIC WITH SOME OF THE DRUG ADDICTION PROGRAMS?

BUT GUNS IS DIFFERENT IT IS ANOTHER DEGREE OF A VIOLENT THING.

>> THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE TODAY.

OUR GUESTS TODAY HAVE BEEN ONEIDA COUNTY SHERIFF ROBERT MACIOL THE CITY OF SYRACUSE'S HEAD OF THE OFFICE TO REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE, LATEEF JOHNSON-KINSEY AND SUNY CORTLAND ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, DOCTOR MARY CANNITO-COVILLE.

IF YOU'D LIKE TO VIEW THE SHOW AGAIN, VISIT WCNY DOT ORG SLASH CONNECT NEW YORK.

ON BEHALF OF THE ENTIRE TEAM AT WCNY — I'M DAVID LOMBARDO — THANKS FOR WATCHING.

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