[ THEME MUSIC ] 1 >> WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEW YORK NOW."

I'M DAN CLARK.

NEW YORK'S POLITICAL LANDSCAPE WAS FLIPPED ON ITS HEAD THIS WEEK AND THAT'S PUTTING IT LIGHTLY.

THE STATE LEGISLATURE HAS NOW CARVED A NEW SET OF DISTRICT LINES FOR CONGRESS, THE STATE SENATE AND THE ASSEMBLY.

THAT MEANS THAT WHEN YOU HEAD TO THE BALLOT BOX THIS YEAR, YOU'LL BE VOTING IN A NEW ELECTION DISTRICT AND POSSIBLY FOR NEW CANDIDATES.

AND THAT'S NOT OUT OF THE BLUE.

THIS HAPPENS EVERY TEN YEARS BASED ON THE CENSUS.

BUT THIS YEAR'S PROCESS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DIFFERENT.

A NEW INDEPENDENT COMMISSION WAS SUPPOSED TO DRAW THE NEW LINES BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

THE COMMISSION ENDED IN GRIDLOCK.

THAT KICKED THE PROCESS BACK TO THE LEGISLATURE WHICH IS CONTROLLED BY DEMOCRATS, AND ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE, REPUBLICANS SAY DEMOCRATS ARE NOW USING THE PROCESS TO GET THEMSELVES AN ADVANTAGE IN THIS YEAR'S ELECTIONS.

BUT DEMOCRATS SAY THAT'S WHAT REPUBLICANS DID TEN YEARS AGO WHEN THEY CONTROLLED THE PROCESS AND THAT THIS YEAR'S MAPS ARE MORE FAIR.

SENATOR DEPUTY MAJORITY LEADER MIKE GIANARIS FROM THE FLOOR THIS WEEK.

2 >> THE CHANGES YOU SEE THAT YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT ARE A RESULT OF US FIXING THE HORRIBLE MAP DRAWING THAT YOU ALL DID.

MAYBE IT WASN'T YOU.

LIKE I SAID, MAYBE YOU HAD YOUR OWN SUPERCOMPUTER OR WHATEVER.

I'M NOT GOING TO SIT HERE AND ASK YOU WHO DREW YOUR LINES TEN YEARS AGO, SENATOR.

GIVE ME THE NAME OF PERSON, LIKE YOU ARE, BUT THE FACT IS THIS MAP IS A FIX AND WHEN YOU FIX THINGS THAT ARE BROKEN, THEY'RE GOING TO CHANGE.

YOU MAY NOT LIKE THAT CHANGE BUT THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING.

THAT'S WHY I'M GOING TO KEEP BRINGING UP WHAT THESE LINES LOOKED LIKE TEN YEARS AGO.

>> BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE MAPS AREN'T BAD FOR REPUBLICANS.

LET'S BREAK IT DOWN WITH ZACH WILLIAMS FROM CITY AND STATE.

ZACH, THANKS FOR COMING BACK THIS WEEK.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> OF COURSE.

SO THESE MAPS ARE DRAWN FOR CONGRESS, STATE SENATE AND ASSEMBLIES AS WE JUST SAID.

IT'S NOT LOOKING GOOD FOR REPUBLICANS, BOTH IN THE STATE SENATE-- WELL, I DON'T KNOW.

IN CONGRESS, IT'S LOOKING BAD FOR REPUBLICANS.

3 IN THE STATE SENATE, IT'S LOOKING BAD FOR REPUBLICANS IN SOME AREAS BUT I DON'T KNOW IF IT GETS DEMOCRATS ABOVE THE 43 THEY ARE RIGHT NOW.

YEAH, THERE WE ARE.

>> LET'S MAKE A HIERARCHY HERE OF THE TROUBLE FOR THE REPUBLICANS.

>> YEAH.

>> CONGRESS HAS NATIONAL IMPLICATIONS AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE DEMOCRATS HAVE DRAWN THE NEW MAP IN A WAY THAT WILL COST THEM THREE SEATS AND I BELIEVE FOUR REPUBLICANS REPRESENTING ANY DISTRICT IN NEW YORK.

>> WOW.

>> SECOND STATE SENATE REDISTRICTING.

THE DEMOCRATS DID IT.

ONE-PARTY RULE SEEMS LIKE IT'S GOING TO SURVIVE THE NEXT DECADE CONSIDERING HOW THEY REDREW THESE DISTRICTS.

PART OF THAT WAS UNDOING JERRYMANDERS APPROVED BY THE REPUBLICAN STATE SENATE TEN YEARS AGO AND SOME OF THEM SEEMED TO JUST SO HAPPEN BOOST A DEMOCRATIC COMMAND IN CURRENT GOP DISTRICTS.

IN THE ASSEMBLY, IT WAS ACTUALLY A LITTLE BIT SURPRISING.

WE HAD SOME REPUBLICANS VOTING WITH THE DEMOCRATS TO APPROVE THE NEW MAP, WHICH SUGGESTS THAT IT CAN'T BE 4 TOTALLY BAD FOR THE GOP THERE.

>> I'M NOT SUPERSURPRISED THERE BECAUSE IN THE ASSEMBLY, YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THERE ARE 150 SEATS IN THE ASSEMBLY.

SO YES, YOU CAN GERRYMANDER SEATS BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY WHEN YOU GET INTO SOME OF THESE BIG UPSTATE AREAS OF NEW YORK, NO MATTER HOW YOU DRAW THESE SEATS, IT'S GOING TO BE A REPUBLICAN SEAT.

>> I THINK THE DEMOCRATS CAN LIVE WITH 17 OR SO HAPPY REPUBLICANS IN THE ASSEMBLY CONSIDERING THERE ARE 104-MEMBER MAJORITY.

>> YEAH.

>> I THINK THE BIG TAKE-AWAY OVERALL IS THESE MAPS AS ALE WHO, CALLED JERRYMANDERING OR NOT, UNDOUBTEDLY BENEFIT THE DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS AND IN THE STATE SENATE.

>> LOOKING INTO A CRYSTAL BALL, IF THE ELECTIONS WERE HELD WITH THESE MAPS IN A WEEK FROM NOW, WHERE ARE THE REPUBLICAN SEATS COMING FROM?

LIKE WHERE ARE THEY BEING ELIMINATED ON THESE MAPS?

I KNOW WE'RE LOOKING AT THE NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS' SEAT ON STATEN ISLAND.

THAT PRESUMABLY WILL GO TO-- MORE LIKELY TO GO TO A DEMOCRAT.

5 NOT DEFINITIVE OBVIOUSLY.

DOES IT LOOK LIKE THESE SEATS ARE COMING FROM DOWNSTATE, LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK CITY, OR IS IT UPSTATE?

>> WELL, ONE OF THE BIG FACTORS THIS YEAR WAS THE POPULATION LOSS UPSTATE.

NOW WHEN YOU CONSIDER HOW REPUBLICANS IN THE STATE SENATE KIND OF FUDGED THE NUMBERS LAST TIME WHERE THEIR DISTRICTS UPSTATE WOULD HAVE FEWER PEOPLE AND MORE PEOPLE WOULD BE PACKED INTO THE NEW YORK CITY DEMOCRAT DISTRICTS, YOU KNOW, IT ONLY-- THE THINKING WENT, OF COURSE, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE MORE SEATS SHIFT DOWNSTATE UNDER A FAIR REDISTRICTING.

SO IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE TWO SEATS SHORT FOR REPUBLICANS IN UPSTATE AND TWO MORE SEATS ARE COMING TO THE NEW YORK CITY AREA.

ONE OF THEM APPEARS TO BENEFIT ASIAN AMERICANS IN SOUTHERN BROOKLYN AND ACROSS THE BURROW, THERE'S ANOTHER DISTRICT STRADDLING THE BORDER WITH BROOKLYN AND QUEENS WHICH LOOKS PARTICULARLY PROMISING TO A LATINO CANDIDATE.

>> AND THAT WASN'T THE CASE BEFORE THESE DISTRICTS.

SO WE KNOW THESE DISTRICTS WILL HEAD TO COURT IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS.

DO WE KNOW WHAT THE ARGUMENT LOOKS LIKE THERE?

>> WELL, IN CONGRESS, IT LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE A VERY DIFFICULT.

YOU KNOW, THE DEMOCRATS DID NOT SPLIT ANY SO-CALLED COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST.

THEY KEPT MINORITY-MAJORITY DISTRICT LARGELY IN TACT WHICH PROTECTS THEM FROM LEGAL CHALLENGES UNDER THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT, BUT IN THE STATE SENATE, IT'S DIFFERENT.

A STATE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT IN 2014 OUTLAWS JERRYMANDERING AND THE DEMOCRATS SEEM TO BE TWISTING THEMSELVES IN ALL SORTS OF FORMS TO ARGUE THIS COULD NOT POSSIBLY BE GERRYMANDERING EVEN THOUGH A LOT OF THEM SEEMED TO HAVE CHANGES THAT REALLY BENEFITS DEMOCRATS IN PARTICULAR WAYS.

ONE THAT COMES TO MIND IS A STATE SENATE SEAT JUST NORTH-- THAT WILL NOW INCLUDE TROY, WHERE WE'RE TAPING RIGHT NOW, THAT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A REPUBLICAN INCUMBENT RIGHT NOW.

>> RIGHT.

>> DAPHNE JORDAN, STATE SENATOR FROM AN ADJOINING SENATOR, SAYS SHE'S PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE TO MOVE.

>> OH, MY GOODNESS.

I WONDER HOW MUCH OF THAT WE'LL SEE.

IT'S STRANGE WITH THE CONGRESS PART OF IT BECAUSE THE LAW FOR CONGRESS IS YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO LIVE IN 7 THE DISTRICT, I BELIEVE, TO RUN FOR IT WHICH WE SEE CLAUDIA TENNEY, SHE WAS DRAWN OUT OF HER DISTRICT AND SHE SAYS THAT SHE'S GOING TO RUN IN A DISTRICT THAT SHE DOESN'T LIVE IN NOW.

>> TWO DISTRICTS OVER, IN FACT.

>> YEAH.

[LAUGHTER] I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY MILES AWAY, 50, 100 MILES AWAY.

ONEIDA COUNTY VERSUS WHERE BINGHAMTON IS, WHICH IS NOT A SHORT STRETCH FOR ANYBODY THAT KNOWS ABOUT IT.

>> TO BE FAIR TO HER, SHE DOES REPRESENT PART OF THAT FUTURE DISTRICT CURRENTLY, BUT SHE LIVES IN UTICA WHICH WILL BE 100, 200 MILES NORTH OF THIS NEW DISTRICT WHICH IS LARGELY THE DISTRICT CURRENTLY REPRESENTED BY TOM REED, ALSO A REPUBLICAN.

>> RIGHT.

AND THINKING OF THE LEGAL CHALLENGES TO THIS, I LISTENED TO THIS INTERVIEW ON WAMC THIS WEEK FROM IAN PICKUS INTERVIEWED RICHARD BRIFFAULT FROM THE COLUMBIA LAW SCHOOL.

HE MADE A REALLY INTERESTING POINT THAT I REALLY HADN'T THOUGHT OF, THAT THIS IS ALL DONE WITH COMPUTERS NOW.

SO IF SOMEBODY HAS THE SOFTWARE AND LIKE-- I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DESCRIBE IT, BUT IF YOU'RE DRAWING THESE 8 DISTRICTS, YOU COULD PRESUMABLY STRETCH INTO ONE AREA TO MAKE IT LEGAL UNDER ALL STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS AND MAYBE THE DEMOCRATS LOOKING OVER THIS PROCESS COULD SAY, WELL, WE DON'T LIKE THAT ONE, IT'S TOO MUCH AND THEY CAN SAY, OH, LET'S STRETCH IT OUT THIS WAY AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK HAPPENED IN NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS' DISTRICT.

>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING POINT BECAUSE DURING THE DEBATE ON THE STATE SENATE FLOOR ON THURSDAY, YOU KNOW, THE REPUBLICANS REALLY PRESSED REALLY HARD FOR DETAILS ABOUT WHO WAS IN THE ROOM WITH THESE COMPUTERS.

>> YEAH.

>> AND THE IMPLICATION BEING THAT DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS OR THEIR ALLIES ON THE-- YOU KNOW, WHO WERE ACTUALLY DRAWING THE MAPS, THESE CIVIL SERVANTS, WERE SOMEHOW KIND OF PUTTING THEIR THUMBS ON THE SCALE IN A WAY, AND THEY SEEMED TO REALLY WANT TO GET DEMOCRATS ON THE RECORD SAYING, YES, WE DID THIS OR THAT IN ANTICIPATION OF THESE FUTURE LEGAL CHALLENGES.

>> AND EVEN IF THEY DIDN'T GET THEM ON THE RECORD ON THURSDAY, PRESUMABLY IN THESE LEGAL CHALLENGES DURING DISCOVERY IN THE CIVIL SUITS, SOME OF THAT 9 INFORMATION COULD COME OUT.

SO THAT WILL BE SOMETHING REALLY INTERESTING TO WATCH.

YOU SEE WHAT EVIDENCE COME OUT OF THESE LAWSUITS BUT WE ARE OUT OF TIME.

A REALLY, REALLY THRILLING PROCESS WE COULD TALK ABOUT FOR A FULL 30 MINUTES.

>> UH-HUH.

>> ZACH WILLIAMS FROM CITY AND STATE, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> SO OVER LAST FEW WEEKS, WE'VE BEEN TELLING YOU ABOUT THE DEBATE IN ALBANY OVER BAIL REFORM.

THAT'S THE LAW IN NEW YORK THAT ENDED THE OPTION OF CASH BAIL FOR MOST LOWER-LEVEL AND NON-VIOLENT CHARGES.

SO NOW JUDGES HAVE TO RELEASE THOSE PEOPLE WITHOUT BAIL.

THAT WAS TO END HOW SOME DEFENDANTS COULD PAY BAIL AND GET OUT OF JAIL WHILE OTHERS COULDN'T AND HAD TO STAY IN.

AND NOW, MORE THAN TWO YEARS AFTER THE LAW TOOK EFFECT, OPPONENTS ARE CALLING FOR CHANGES FOR A FULL REPEAL.

THEY SAY THE STATE'S RISE IN CRIME HAS BEEN CONNECTED TO THE NEW BAIL LAWS.

WELL, THERE'S BEEN NO AMOUNT OF PARTISAN ANALYSIS TO PROVE THAT CLAIM.

10 ON THIS WEEK'S SHOW, WE'RE TAKING A DEEP DIVE INTO THE DEBATE OVER VIOLENT CRIME AND BAIL REFORM IN NEW YORK, WHAT'S ON THE TABLE AND WHERE IT'S HEADED.

DARRELL CAMP REPORTS.

[ THEME MUSIC ] >> PUBLIC SAFETY HAS ALWAYS BEEN A TOP ISSUE FOR NEW YORKERS, BUT IT'S TAKEN ON NEW LIFE IN RECENT YEARS AFTER A NUMBER OF CHANGES AT THE STATE LEVEL.

THE MOVEMENT FOR CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM GAINED TRACTION FIVE YEARS AGO WHEN A BIPARTISAN STATE LEGISLATURE PASSED WHAT'S CALLED RAISE THE AGE.

THAT MADE IT SO 16 AND 17-YEAR-OLDS WERE NO LONGER TRIED AS ADULTS IN NEW YORK FOR MOST CRIMES.

TWO YEARS LATER, LAWMAKERS APPROVED WHAT'S BEEN THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL CRIMINAL JUSTICE LAW IN RECENT HISTORY, BAIL REFORM.

[ CHANTING ] THE NEW LAW TOOK EFFECT IN 2020 AND ELIMINATED CASH BAIL FOR LOWER-LEVEL AND NON-VIOLENT OFFENSES.

SUPPORTERS OF THE BILL SAID HAVING A SYSTEM OF CASH BAIL CRIMINALIZED POVERTY ALLOWING SOME PEOPLE TO PAY TO GET OUT OF JAIL BEFORE TRIAL WHILE OTHERS COULDN'T.

SENATOR GUSTAVO RIVERA IS A DEMOCRAT FROM THE BRONX.

>> WHEN HARVEY WEINSTEIN WHO WAS ACCUSED ALL SORTS OF 11 THINGS AND WAS ULTIMATELY FOUND TO BE GUILTY OF SOME OF THE WORST TYPES OF SEXUAL PREDATORY BEHAVIOR YOU COULD IMAGINE AND BECAUSE HE WAS A MILLIONAIRE, HE WAS ABLE TO GO INTO COURT AND 15 MINUTES LATER, HE WAS BACK IN A LIMOUSINE BACK IN HIS HOUSE.

THAT'S NOT THE REALITY FOR THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF PEOPLE.

>>Reporter: BUT SINCE THE BAIL REFORM LAW TOOK EFFECT, NEW YORK HAS SEEN A RISE IN CRIME.

OPPONENTS OF THE LAW, MOSTLY REPUBLICANS, BUT SOME DEMOCRATS, HAVE CLAIMED THAT THE TWO ARE CONNECTED AND BECAUSE OF THAT, THEY'VE CALLED FOR A FULL REPEAL OF THE STATUTE AS A SOLUTION TO NEW YORK'S CRIME PROBLEM.

THERE HASN'T BEEN ANY CRITICAL ANALYSIS ON DATA TO SUPPORT THAT ARGUMENT AND THAT HAS BEEN A MAJOR STICKING POINT.

THE STATE COURT SYSTEM DOES HAVE DATA ON PRE-TRIAL OUTCOMES BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE THE NUMBERS FROM BEFORE THE NEW BAIL REFORM LAW WENT INTO EFFECT FOR COMPARISON.

ACCORDING TO AN ANALYSIS FROM THE TIMES UNION, 2% OF THOSE RELEASED WITHOUT BAIL BETWEEN JULY OF 2020 AND JULY OF 2021 WENT ON TO COMMIT A FELONY.

THOSE NUMBERS ACCOUNT FOR JUST OVER 2,000 CRIMES COMMITTED.

ERICA BOND, THE VICE PRESIDENT OF JUSTICE INITIATIVES AT JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE SAYS IT DOES PROVIDE SOME 12 NEW INFORMATION BUT NOT ENOUGH TO BASE POLICY ON.

>> WHAT WE DON'T KNOW IS WHAT HAPPENED IN 2019.

SO WE DON'T KNOW HOW THAT COMPARES, AND SO IT'S REALLY HARD THEN TO ASSESS WHETHER 2020 REPRESENTED AN INCREASE OR A DECREASE IN THE PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE THAT WERE COMMITTING VIOLENT FELONIES UPON RELEASE.

>> ADVOCACY GROUPS SEEKING TO AMEND OR OVERHAUL THE LAW, HOWEVER, SAY THEY HAVE LIVED THROUGH THE EVIDENCE THAT WOULD SUPPORT THOSE CHANGES.

ONE OF THOSE GROUPS IS HARLEM MOTHERS S.A.V.E., LED BY JACKIE ROWE-ADAMS.

SHE LOST TWO SONS TO GUN VIOLENCE AND SAYS THAT OFFICIALS HAVE THEIR PRIORITIES IN THE WRONG ORDER.

>> NOW IF IT WAS THE POLICE KILLING US-- >> THANK YOU, GO AHEAD, GO AHEAD.

>> EVERYBODY WOULD BE ONBOARD.

THIS PLACE WOULD BE PACKED.

EVERY VIDEO WOULD BE STANDING HERE BECAUSE THE POLICE SHOT.

WELL, WE SHOOTING US AND THAT'S HOW WE MEASURE IT.

WE MEASURE IT WITH THE ELECTED OFFICIALS THAT I HAVE VERY GREAT RESPECT FOR IS NOT DOING WHAT THEY 13 SUPPOSED TO DO BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY TIME THEY WANT TO DO SOMETHING IS WITH THE POLICE KILLERS.

THAT'S GONNA STOP BECAUSE WE KILLING US AND IT MUST STOP.

>>Reporter: STORY LIKE THAT COULD RESONATE WITH THE HOCHUL ADMINISTRATION.

WHILE GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL HAS NO PUBLIC POSITION ON CHANGES TO BAIL, SHE SAYS THAT ALL PERSPECTIVES SHOULD BE CONSIDERED IN THAT DEBATE.

>> IT IS A CONVERSATION THAT I'VE ALREADY HAD WITH OUR LEGISLATIVE LEADERS.

OUR MAIN FOCUS IS PUBLIC SAFETY, PROTECTING PEOPLE WHERE THEY LIVE AND FINDING ALL THE OPPORTUNITIES TO DO THAT AND MAKE SURE IT MAKES SENSE.

>>Reporter: IF THERE ARE CHANGES TO THE BAIL REFORM LAW, IT WOULD NOT BE THE FIRST TIME.

AFTER SOME INITIAL CONCERNS TWO YEARS AGO, STATE LEGISLATURE DID ROLL BACK A PART OF THE LAW RETURNING THE OPTION OF CASH BAIL FOR A HANDFUL OF CHARGES.

SOME HAVE CALLED FOR AN END TO CASH BAIL ALTOGETHER REPLACING IT WITH A SO-CALLED DANGEROUSNESS STANDARD.

THAT'S THE STANDARD JUDGES COULD USE TO HOLD THE ACCUSED BEFORE TRIAL.

PATRICK PHELAN IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE NEW YORK STATE ASSOCIATION OF CHIEFS OF POLICE.

14 >> WE'RE ASKING THAT THE JUDGES ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK BE ALLOWED TO CONSIDER THE DEFENDANT'S DANGER TO THE COMMUNITY.

AS THEY'RE ALLOWED TO DO IN 49 OTHER STATES.

IT'S A REASONABLE REQUEST.

WE THINK THAT IT'S FAIR AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR HERE TODAY.

>>Reporter: BUT CRITICS OF THE DANGEROUSNESS STANDARD SAY IT COULD BE A SLIPPERY SLOPE IF JUDGES ARE GIVEN MORE FLEXIBILITY OVER PRE-TRIAL DETENTION, THEY SAY IT COULD UNINTENTIONALLY RESULT IN DISPROPORTIONATE OUTCOMES FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR WHICH WOULD BE BACK TO SQUARE ONE.

ATTORNEY JAMES LONG, A FORMER ALBANY AREA PUBLIC DEFENDER, SAYS THE IMPLICIT BIAS OF JUDGES CAN EVEN GO BEYOND RACE.

>> JUDGES ARE HUMAN BEINGS.

THEY COME TO COURT, TO THE BENCH, TO THEIR PINNACLE OF THEIR CAREER BUT WITH THEIR OWN PERSONAL FOIBLES AND THEIR OWN PERSONAL PREJUDICES.

AND I DON'T MEAN THAT IN A RACIAL OR GENDER WAY.

IT'S MORE REALLY A CULTURAL THING.

>>Reporter: ASSEMBLY MEMBER LATRICE WALKER, A MEMBER OF THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, WAS ONE OF THE TOP NEGOTIATORS OF BAIL REFORM WHEN IT PASSED THREE 15 YEARS AGO.

SHE'S AGAINST THE DANGEROUSNESS STANDARD AND LIKE LONG, SHE SAYS IT'S ABOUT CULTURE AND HISTORY.

BAIL REFORM HAS BEEN ABOUT SOCIAL JUSTICE, SHE SAYS, AND UNDOING A LONG HISTORY OF RACIAL INEQUITY IN THE U.S. >> THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION STATES THAT SLAVERY WAS ABOLISHED EXCEPT IN THE CASE OF CRIMINAL PUNISHMENT, SO THAT ANYONE WHO WAS SUBJECTED TO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, THEY ARE A SLAVE IN THE TRUEST FORM.

SO THIS IS OUR ABOLITIONIST MOVEMENT.

>>Reporter: AND SOME SUPPORTERS OF THE BAIL REFORM LAW SAY IT DIDN'T GO FAR ENOUGH TO ADDRESS THOSE HISTORIC INEQUITIES IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

SENATOR JABARI BRISPORT, A DEMOCRAT FROM BROOKLYN, SAYS HE'S AGAINST ANY NEW ROLLBACKS.

HE WENT TO NIGHT COURT IN BROOKLYN TO SEE HOW JUDGES SET BAIL AND SAYS IT'S STILL NOT IMPARTIAL.

>> PUTTING RESTRICTIONS ON JUDGES LIKE MAKE SURE THEY'RE CLARIFYING WHAT THE OPTIONS ARE BEFORE THEY ALLOW FOR POSTING BAIL.

>>Reporter: AND THERE'S ALSO THE PROBLEM OF A JUDGE'S INTERPRETATION OF THE LAW.

16 ASSEMBLY MEMBER PHIL STECK, A DEMOCRAT AND MEMBER OF THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, HAS BEEN PRACTICING LAW FOR MORE THAN THREE DECADES.

>> JOHN ADAMS WHO WAS ONE OF OUR FOUNDING FATHERS, SAID WE NEEDED TO CREATE A GOVERNMENT OF LAWS NOT OF MEN.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE DISCRETION IS YOU GO TO ONE JUDGE IN ONE TOWN AND HE OR SHE IS DOING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS THAN ANOTHER JUDGE IN ANOTHER TOWN.

THERE'S NO CONSISTENCY.

>>Reporter: BUT THERE ARE OTHER SIDES TO JUDICIAL DISCRETION AS WELL AND IT'S MORE COMPLICATED THAN IT SOUNDS.

IT CAN APPLY TO MORE THAN PERCEIVED DANGEROUSNESS OR CASH BAIL LIKE WHEN SOMEONE'S ARRESTED AND NEEDS TREATMENT FOR A DRUG ADDICTION.

ASSEMBLYMAN KEITH BROWN IS A REPUBLICAN FROM SUFFOLK COUNTY WHO IS ALSO ON THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.

>> JUDGES CAN'T GET TREATMENT INDIVIDUALS THAT NEED IT THE MOST WHO ARE CHARGED WITH, SAY, SOME TYPE OF CRIME THAT WAS RELATED THEIR DRUG HABIT.

SO THAT PERSON WHO REALLY NEEDS TO GET INTO TREATMENT, RIGHT, THERE'S NO OVERSIGHT OF THEM ANYMORE AND THE JUDGE DOESN'T HAVE THE OPTION TO SEND THEM TO 17 TREATMENT.

>>Reporter: AND THAT OPENS THE CONVERSATION TO MORE THAN JUST BAIL REFORM WHEN IT COMES TO VIOLENT CRIME.

FOR GUN CRIME IN PARTICULAR, MOST STAKEHOLDERS DO AGREE THAT IT TAKES MORE THAN JUST LAW ENFORCEMENT TO FIND A SOLUTION.

DAMON BACOTE LEADS THE STATE'S OFFICE OF YOUTH JUSTICE AND THE DIVISION OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE SERVICES.

HIS OFFICE MANAGES THE SNUG ANTIVIOLENCE PROGRAM, NAMED AFTER THE WORD GUNS SPELLED BACKWARDS.

>> I THINK SNUG PROVIDES SOME OF THAT FORMAL STRUCTURE WHERE LIKE HERE ARE GUYS WHO HAVE LIVED MANY SO OF THE PAST LIFE THAT SOME OF THESE YOUNG PEOPLE LIVED AND THIS IS THEIR JOB TO GO OUT THERE AND WORK WITH THESE YOUNG PEOPLE.

>>Reporter: AND ALL OF THAT COMES BACK TO THE STATE LEVEL AND SPECIFICALLY FUNDING.

STAKEHOLDERS FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE SAY THAT REGARDLESS OF THE BAIL REFORM LAW ONE WAY TO CURB CRIME WOULD BE TO INVEST IN THE STATE'S YOUNG PEOPLE.

SENATOR GUSTAVO RIVERA AGAIN.

>> IF WE WANT TO I HAVE A REAL CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW WE ACTUALLY DEAL WITH CRIME IN THE LONG TERM, THEN LET'S HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT 18 INVESTMENT IN COMMUNITIES THAT ARE STRICKEN BY CRIME.

NOT JUST HOW DO WE POLICE THEM MORE BUT HOW DO WE INVEST IN THEM MORE.

>>Reporter: AND THAT DEBATE IS OFTEN SEEN AS AN EITHER-OR.

YOU'LL OFTEN HEAR FROM SEATER SIDE THAT THE STATE SHOULD EITHER BOOST FUNDING FOR POLICE OR INVEST MORE IN SOCIAL PROGRAMS AND COMMUNITIES BUT SENATE REPUBLICAN LEADER ROB ORTT, WHILE STILL AN OPPONENT OF THE BAIL REFORM LAW, SAYS IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY.

>> THERE WAS THIS NOTION THAT THE ONLY WAY WE CAN PROPERLY INVEST IN THOSE PROGRAMS IS TO DEFUND THE POLICE, AS IF SOMEHOW TAKING MONEY FROM THOSE WHO ARE PROTECTING US IS SOMEHOW, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE ONLY WAY WE CAN ALSO INVEST.

WE HAVE DONE BOTH.

CITIES ARE DOING BOTH.

COUNTIES DO BOTH, MEANING THEY HAVE THE OBLIGATION I GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE FOLKS WHO PROTECT US HAVE THE RESOURCES, BUT I TELL YOU WHAT, THEY DON'T WANT TO LOCK UP 16-YEAR-OLD WHO SHOULD BE IN A MENTAL HEALTH FACILITY INSTEAD.

THEY DON'T WANT TO LOCK UP SOMEBODY WHO REALLY NEEDS A DRUG PROGRAM INSTEAD.

>>Reporter: THAT IDEA IS MORE BIPARTISAN THAN YOU MIGHT THINK.

GOVERNOR HOCHUL SAYS SHE IS AGAINST REDUCING FUNDING FOR 19 LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES.

IN HER STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS, SHE SAID THE STATE SHOULD INVEST MORE MONEY INTO COMMUNITY AND ANTIVIOLENCE PROGRAMS.

>> AND EVERYONE DESERVES TO FEEL SAFE ON THE STREETS, IN SCHOOLS, IN THEIR HOMES AND IN THEIR COMMUNITIES, AND DURING THEIR COMMUTES AND IN TOO MANY COMMUNITIES, THEY JUST DON'T.

SO WE'RE GOING TO PRIORITIZE PUBLIC SAFETY, STARTING WITH $224 MILLION INVESTMENT INTO PROGRAMS THAT WILL REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE AND OTHER PROGRAMS TO HELP CHILDREN IN OUR STREETS.

>>Reporter: THE INVESTMENTS ARE ABOUT MORE THAN JUST COMMUNITIES, THOUGH.

SENATE MAJORITY LEADER ANDREA STEWART-COUSINS SAYS THAT INVESTMENT SHOULD START EARLIER WHILE CHILDREN ARE STILL IN SCHOOL.

>> THAT'S WHY WE FOCUS SO MUCH ON EDUCATION BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY TELL YOU IS THAT THE LIKELIHOOD OF YOU, YOU KNOW, BEING IN A BAD SITUATION IS GENERALLY LINKED TO WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET AN EDUCATION.

>> AND ON THAT FRONT, GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL IS PREPARING OVER $2 BILLION IN ADDITIONAL EDUCATION SPENDING IN THIS YEAR'S BUDGET.

20 THOSE ARGUMENTS WILL CONTINUE FOR THE NEXT SEVERAL MONTHS AS SHE AND THE STATE LEGISLATURE CONTINUE TO NEGOTIATE THE BUDGET.

FOR "NEW YORK NOW," I'M DARRELL CAMP IN ALBANY.

[ THEME MUSIC ] >> WE'LL BE WATCHING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS.

IT'S VERY POSSIBLE THAT IF WE DO SEE CHANGES TO BAIL REFORM, THEY'LL BE TUCKED INTO THE STATE BUDGET.

THAT'S DUE AT THE END OF MARCH.

AND STAYING NOW WITH THE STATE BUDGET, GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL HAS HER EYE ON SOME BIG TECH INVESTMENTS THIS YEAR.

FOR ONE, SHE WANTS TO INVEST $1.6 BILLION INTO BROADBAND.

IF YOU ALREADY HAVE BROADBAND, YOU PROBABLY DON'T KNOW THAT THOUSANDS OF NEW YORKERS STILL DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO RELIABLE, HIGH-SPEED INTERNET, AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS ON THE SHOW BEFORE.

A LOT OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH INFRASTRUCTURE AND COSTS.

SO TO SEE HOW HOCHUL'S BUDGET WOULD IMPACT THAT AND MORE, I SPOKE THIS WEEK WITH ADAM KOVACEVICH FROM THE CHAMBER OF PROGRESS COALITION FROM THE U.S. TECH INDUSTRY.

[ THEME MUSIC ] >> ADAM, THANK YOU SO MUCH 21 FOR BEING HERE.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> OF COURSE, ANYTIME.

SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TECH IN THE STATE BUDGET AND TECH IN NEW YORK THIS YEAR.

I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT BROADBAND.

SO MOST OF THE STATE DOES HAVE ACCESS TO BROADBAND OR HIGH-SPEED INTERNET, BUT THERE ARE STILL THOUSANDS OF NEW YORKERS WHO DON'T HAVE IT.

THE GOVERNOR IS PROPOSING $1.6 BILLION IN NEW SPENDING ON BROADBAND EXPANSION.

HOW FAR WILL THAT GET US TO CLOSING THE DIGITAL DIVIDE HERE?

>> I THINK IT GETS NEW YORK PRETTY FAR.

IT'S A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENT AND FRANKLY, I THINK THE PANDEMIC KIND OF LAID BEAR THE IMPORTANCE OF BROADBAND.

YOU HAD THE DIGITAL HAVEs AND HAVE-NOTs AND SOME PEOPLE WERE ABLE TO WORK FROM HOME, DO SCHOOL FROM HOME PRETTY SEAMLESSLY.

OTHERS, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE BROADBAND CONNECTION, HAD TO RESORT TO THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, GOING TO PARK IN THE LIBRARY OF-- PARKING LOT OF A PUBLIC LIBRARY AND USE THE WiFi CONNECTION THERE AND I THINK ALL OF THAT HIGHLIGHTED HOW HAVING BROADBAND AT HOME CAN MAKE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN KEEPING UP AND FALLING 22 BEHIND.

AS YOU SAID, THE GOVERNOR'S PROPOSAL INCLUDES A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY, MORE THAN A BILLION DOLLARS, AND THAT IS SPLIT BETWEEN MUNICIPAL GRANTS FOR MUNICIPALITIES THAT WANT TO BUILD OUT THEIR OWN BROADBAND NETWORKS, SUBSIDIES FOR LOW-INCOME USERS, A WHOLE INITIATIVE AROUND BROADBAND AVAILABILITY MAPS TO MAKE CLEAR TO CONSUMERS WHAT THEIR OPTIONS ARE AND INTERESTINGLY ALSO INCLUDES SOME STREAMLINED REGULATIONS FOR MAKING FIBER DEPLOYMENT EASIER FOR THE COMPANIES THAT WANT TO BUILD OUT AND DEPLOY MORE BROADBAND MAKES IT ALL THAT EASIER.

ALL THAT IS PRETTY SIGNIFICANT.

>> THAT'S GOOD NEWS ON THE INFRASTRUCTURE SIDE.

I'M WONDERING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS, SO WE CAN GET IT BUILT OUT INFRASTRUCTURE-WISE, AND WE CAN GET THESE COMPANIES OUT TO PEOPLE BUT THERE'S STILL THAT BARRIER OF COSTS FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

THEY JUST CAN'T AFFORD IT.

I WANTED TO PICK YOUR BRAINS.

DO HAVE ANY IDEA HOW WE GET THOSE PRICES LOWER TO GET PEOPLE CONNECTED AND MORE INTEGRATED INTO THIS HIGH-SPEED INTERNET THAT WE HAVE IN MOST AREAS OF THE STATE NOW?

>> WELL, AGAIN, I THINK THAT'S WHY IT'S SIGNIFICANT 23 THAT THE GOVERNOR'S PLAN INCLUDES THE SUBSIDY FOR LOWER INCOME USERS BECAUSE YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT THAT JUST BECAUSE THE BILL INVESTS IN DEPLOYMENT AND GETTING BROADBAND TO AREAS WHERE THEY MAY IN THE ALREADY EXIST DOESN'T MEAN IT'S NECESSARILY GOING TO BE AFFORDABLE AND I ALSO THINK THAT'S PRETTY IMPORTANT BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS WE'VE SEEN INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH IS THAT THE PANDEMIC HAS ALSO CHANGED THE WAY THAT CITY AND STATES APPROACH ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND ATTRACTING JOBS.

EVERY STATE, NEW YORK INCLUDED, WOULD LIKE TO ATTRACT MORE TECH JOBS.

MORE AND MORE TECH COMPANIES ARE ALLOWING EMPLOYEES TO WORK FROM ANYWHERE AND SO COMMUNITIES UPSTATE, FOR EXAMPLE, CAN ATTRACT TECH WORKER SIMPLY BY COMPETING ON QUALITY OF LIFE AND AMENITIES BUT BROADBAND IS PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT OF THOSE, RIGHT?

YOU CAN'T STAY CONNECTED TO ZOOM CALLS, REMOTE SOFTWARE ENGINEERING PROJECTS, EVEN CUSTOMER SUPPORT FUNCTIONS WITHOUT A GREAT CONNECTION AND I THINK THAT'S WHY, IN SOME WAYS, THIS INVESTMENT COULD BE AS TRANSFORMATIVE AS LANDING A BIG, NEW FACTORY.

JUST SORT OF THE OLD WAY OF DOING ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN POPPING UP IN UPSTATE NEW 24 YORK SPECIFICALLY.

SO WE'VE SEEN CRYPTOMINING FACILITIES POP UP IN PLACES LIKE OUTSIDE OF ITHACA, UP IN THE NORTH COUNTRY.

THEY'RE POPPING UP MORE AND MORE AS WE SEE TYPE GO ON.

DO YOU THINK THIS IS A PERMANENT THING, OR IS THIS JUST A PASSING FAD?

ARE WE GOING TO SEE CRYPTOMINING FACILITIES JUST POP UP EVERYWHERE ACROSS NEW YORK STATE?

>> WELL, I THINK BACK UP A SECOND AND LOOK AT CRYPTOCURRENCY, AND YOU KNOW, I KNOW SOME LEGISLATORS ARE REACTING TO WHAT THEY'RE SEEING HAPPENING UPSTATE ON THE POWER SIDE ARE PROPOSING WHAT AMOUNTED TO AN OUTRIGHT BAN ON CERTAIN CRYPTOCURRENCIES IN NEW YORK STATE.

I THINK THAT WOULD BE A MISTAKE.

FACT IS WE'RE REALLY AT THE BEGINNING OF JUST UNDERSTANDING HOW CRYPTOCURRENCY, AS A TOOL, CAN GIVE PEOPLE ACCESS TO FINANCIAL SYSTEMS, PARTICULARLY FOR PEOPLE WHO MAYBE HAVEN'T HAD ACCESS TO TRADITIONAL FINANCIAL SYSTEMS BEFORE.

THERE'S ALWAYS A DANGER THAT IF YOU CRACK DOWN NOW, WHAT YOU COULD DO IS SOLIDIFY THE ADVANTAGE OF THE SPECULATORS WHO ARE IN CRYPTOCURRENCY FIVE YEARS AGO AND DENY, YOU KNOW, THE ORDINARY PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST NOW DISCOVERING BENEFITING FROM CRYPTO.

ALL THAT SAID, WE SHOULDN'T GIVE CRYPTO A FREE PASS WHEN 25 IT COMES TO ENERGY USE OR THE ENVIRONMENT.

YOU'VE ALREADY SEEN, I THINK, MANY NEWER CRYPTOCURRENCIES TAKE A MUCH LESS ENERGY-INTENSIVE FORM OF MINING.

I THINK THE OBJECTIVE HERE FOR THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD BE TO REACT TO THIS IN A WAY THAT ENCOURAGES CRYPTO AS AN INDUSTRY, MAKES NEW YORK A CRYPTO HUB, AND ENCOURAGES THE INDUSTRY TO MOVE FORWARD OVER TIME TO MORE ENERGY-FRIENDLY OR ENERGY EFFICIENCY FRIENDLY MECHANISMS, JUST AS WE'VE DONE WITH OTHER INDUSTRIES.

WE'VE DONE THAT WITH OTHER INDUSTRIES, PLENTY OF OTHER INDUSTRIES RATHER THAN CUT THEM OFF ALTOGETHER.

>> HOW DO WE DO THAT?

HOW DO WE MAKE THESE MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT?

IS IT JUST ABOUT PULLING FROM THE GRID?

I KNOW ONE FACILITY HAS ITS OWN NATURAL GAS POWER GENERATION.

IS IT JUST HAVING THESE FACILITIES RUN ON RENEWABLE ENERGIES?

HOW DO WE GET TO A PLACE WE HAVE CRYPTO WHILE WE'RE BOTH PROTECTING THE CLIMATE?

>> THE FACT IS WE'VE DONE THIS IN OTHER INDUSTRIES.

WE SHOULDN'T TREAT IT AS IF IT'S A NOVEL THING.

WE'VE DONE THIS FOR DRY CLEANERS.

WE'VE DONE THIS FOR TRADITIONAL MANUFACTURING.

WE'VE DONE THIS ACROSS THE BOARD.

I THINK IT'S VERY POSSIBLE.

26 IT JUST REQUIRES NOT REACTING TO CRYPTOCURRENCY WITH A BAN IT KIND OF POSTURE.

WE SHOULD BETTER IT.

WE SHOULD ALWAYS TRY TO BETTER WHICH IS TO CHANNEL THE GOOD FROM THE NEW TECHNOLOGY AND TRY TO REDUCE THE NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES OF TECHNOLOGY.

I THINK IT'S VERY DOABLE.

>> ALL RIGHT, ADAM KOVACEVICH.

LOOKING VERY FORWARD TO THAT CONVERSATION AND IT'S GOING TO BE A REALLY INTERESTING TECH YEAR FOR THE BUDGET.

SO WE'LL TALK TO YOU SOON, ADAM KOVACEVICH FROM THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANKS SO MUCH.

[ THEME MUSIC ] >> AND AS WE SAID, THE BUDGET IS DUE AT THE END OF MARCH.

THAT'S LESS THAN TWO MONTHS AWAY BUT IN ALBANY, IT'S A LIFETIME AND WE'LL BE WATCHING.

UNTIL THEN, THANKS FOR WATCHING THIS WEEK'S "NEW YORK NOW."

HAVE A GREAT WEEK AND BE WELL.

[ THEME MUSIC ] >>Announcer: FUNDING FOR "NEW YORK NOW" IS PROVIDED BY WNET.

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