(bright music) (upbeat music) (music ending) - Welcome to Vote 2024 Table Talk, a Milwaukee PBS special.

I'm Portia Young.

Yard signs political, text messages, incessant TV ads.

Election Day is right around the corner.

Once again, Wisconsin is the ultimate battleground state, polarizing our politics like nowhere else in the nation.

Four of the past six presidential contests in Wisconsin were decided by less than a percentage point, including the 2020 election.

- [Newsreader] In the state of Wisconsin, where the president says he will ask for a recount, Joe Biden declared the victor.

- We have won Wisconsin by 20,000 votes.

Virtually the same margin that President Trump won that state four years ago.

- Wisconsin's razor-thin margins have ushered in a new era of polarization that has made its way to our dinner tables, church pews, and classrooms.

Things have gotten so contentious that the Waukesha YMCA banned news coverage on shared TVs throughout its gyms.

So how do we get past tribal politics and find common ground beyond our collective adoration of the Green Bay Packers?

How can we talk more and argue less?

We think we have an answer.

Milwaukee PBS has partnered with Marquette University's Civic Dialogues program for a two-part special that brings together small but diverse groups of voters to come to the dinner table, break bread, and discuss important electoral issues.

For our first topic on Table Talk, we focus on immigration, one of the most polarizing issues in this election.

Polling shows it's top of mind for a significant number of voters, many of whom hold sharply-contrasting views.

We head now to Engine Company No.

3 in Milwaukee's Walker's Point neighborhood, where the conversational menu includes asylum, vetting, and a pathway towards citizenship.

(upbeat music) - I'm Phil Rocco.

I'm a professor of political science at Marquette University.

I'll be facilitating this conversation, and I'm excited to talk to some voters tonight about immigration.

- My name is Stephanie Janeth Salgado Altamirano.

I'm originally from Tegucigalpa, Honduras, and have been living for a decade in Madison, Wisconsin.

And I'm looking forward to hearing from our community members tonight about immigration.

- I'm Penny Pietruszynski from West Bend, Wisconsin.

God is the head of my household.

I want my grandkids and my kids grow up in a healthy environment.

I'm looking forward discussing the immigration policies.

- My name is Mark Holland, and I'm from Germantown.

The values that are strong to me right now are family, and I'd like to bring that to the table.

And I'm really looking forward to having a conversation about immigration today.

- I'm Al Hamdan.

I'm from Franklin, Wisconsin.

I'm an immigrant, so I came to the States for to study.

I've been living here for 36 years.

And I'm here to talk about tonight's subject, which is immigration.

- Hi, I am Tammy, raised right here in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

I'm the child of Hmong refugees.

My mother and my father grew up, experienced war, grew up in the refugee camps, and then ultimately ended up here in the United States.

And I'm excited to have a conversation on immigration.

(bright music) - So welcome to our Vote 2024 Table Talk on immigration.

According to public opinion polls, immigration is a top issue in this election.

So is immigration an important issue to you?

And what about immigration concerns you most?

We'll start with Mark.

- It is important to me.

And I do believe that United States needs immigrants in order to survive, but people should be vetted before they come in the country.

I'd love everyone to come.

It's a melting pot.

But you just shouldn't be able to walk in.

You should be able to be vetted and screened and all that, and then you're in.

Come in that way, and then I'd be okay with that.

- Yeah, I mean, I agree.

I mean, obviously I'm an immigrant.

I can't be an anti-immigrant.

So definitely I'm pro-immigration.

However, I do think it needs to be governed correctly.

I do think that you need to have rules and guidelines, and that you need to work within those guidelines.

I feel like the politics sometimes demonize immigration more than it should, you know?

I mean, I think 90%, 95% of immigrants are hardworking people.

They come here to make a living, to advance their lives.

So I do agree.

I think it's a land of opportunity.

There's jobs here that's not being filled by, you know, Americans, and need some immigrants to fill those jobs.

I think if we govern it correctly and talk about it seriously, we can really solve that issue, and not politicize that issue.

- I think coming from the perspective and the lived experiences of being a child of refugee, US involvement in the Vietnam War, right, how is it that we are here in this country as Hmong, as other Southeast Asians that have been impacted by war, and are still facing issues of deportation, right?

Because when we were refugees here in this country, we lived in some of the poorest neighborhoods.

Some of us got in trouble, and then had to serve some time for the, you know, just the careless mistakes that we've made.

And then, you know, all of a sudden a pathway to being deported from a country that came into your region of the world and participated in a war.

I think that the system is really broken in that, you know, when we're talking about immigration and we're talking about deportation, we have to really look at, you know, US and its participation globally, right?

And it's not just what's happening on the southern border.

- I want people to be here that really wanna be in America, and really thrive, like she came, and she goes to school and working.

You know, that's just wonderful.

And that's the way that it should be, you know?

And it shouldn't be a long, long process to get through.

I do believe in vetting, though.

Definitely vetting.

And you need to love this country.

That's the most important thing.

- For me being an immigrant is like the elephant in the room, because from what I understood growing up, I always had this idea of like, wow, the United States is the greatest country of the world.

But then also, like you just mentioned, the intervention of US politics into Latin America, and then I wanna talk specifically about Honduras, was so deep rooted that for a reason there's an exploitation constantly of, like, that worker is willing to do it for less than the American worker, so we're gonna take that one, and unfortunately, because of that mindset, putting people against each other.

I think everyone wants peace and wants freedom for their own community to be safe, to walk around and to not feel like if you are a target, or if you are seen as an alien, what can that look like for you if the world politics becomes sour?

I just, you know, like, can just imagine for immigrants that came from the Middle East during 9/11, being from those places, and then carrying that identity with you, was so dangerous.

Or Asian folks during the pandemic, that was so dangerous, because you were seen as foreign.

So for me, it is about an equity lens of, like, the immigration patterns that we see today in the United States are because of repercussions from past historical mistakes that unfortunately the US government has failed to respond to.

- I'll move on to the last question.

The Pew Research Center noted that a growing number of migrants seeking entry into the United States at its border with Mexico has divided Congress, and has emerged itself as a top issue in the 2024 election.

Do you personally consider the situation at the border a crisis, a major problem, a minor problem, not a problem?

What do you think would make the situation better.

and how would you address the issue?

And I'll start with Penny.

- I believe that it is a crisis, because people are coming, and we need to protect our citizens.

We need to protect the people of America.

There's a lot of people that are coming in that don't have that agenda, that they're here to sell their drugs, they're here to traffic people.

And I believe that we need to keep our Americans safe.

- You just can't open the border and say, "Come on in."

You need to have a program, a system, for people to come in.

I know there's talk about that there's so many people coming in right now that are not vetted.

They're just, you know, coming in, so people are talking, "Well, let's build a wall.

"Let's get more border control," and all that.

But the issue does come from, why are they coming?

What is it that's causing the people to come?

- Well, it definitely is a crisis.

I cannot help but to not also see my own humanity in what's happening on the border.

And so it's really hard for me to see people out of sheer desperation to get into this country, but then to be, like, have their humanity also stripped from them in the sense of how everything is set up on the border, with, like, how people are being held.

I guess I'm not in the spaces, and I don't hear the conversations of people saying, oh, you know, these people that are coming over are, you know, like, traffickers and bringing in drugs.

I think more of the spaces that I'm in are, like, sheer desperation, right?

What are people experiencing in their home country?

Why have they made that trek here?

Because it's not okay how we're treating families that are arriving here on the border.

And so yeah, it's really hard to see that and not think about the history of my people, and what they've had to survive to come here.

- I see the border, and "border," right?

Manmade borders that we created.

And I see my cousins, I see brothers, I see sisters, I see aunts, I see family, I see fathers.

How can I tell myself that I deserve to be here over them, just because my parents had the privilege to pay through the process, just because I'm now a naturalized citizen, just because I was able to make it out, and not them?

And all this emotional vulnerability that I think I'm showing and feeling safe to do is because it affects me.

It affects my communities who are from mixed status family.

It affects the people who are working in restaurants, maybe even the people who picked up our food when we had dinner tonight.

It's all those people who I see are hardworking people.

But we really need have to connect on our humanity that even if that person looks different from you, this nation, like, the United States, was built on stolen land, and for what is now here known at least Ho-Chunk land.

Like, we all are settlers, and some of us wish to be more like visitors.

So how do we continue passing the way of, like, I'm a visitor here, and I'm respectfully having this nation be built to what it was supposed to be founded upon?

- We now clear the table for our next course.

A new group of voters.

A new topic.

Democracy is the focus of our next Table Talk dinner.

Democracy is often said to mean rule by the people.

So how are we doing?

Not so good, it turns out.

72% of Americans say the US used to be a good example of democracy, but isn't anymore, according to recent polling by the Pew Research Center.

What explains that growing dissatisfaction, and how is that shaping the 2024 presidential election?

We invited another group of diverse voters to Engine Company No.

3 for food and fellowship, and to talk about bedrock issues like access to the ballot, free speech, and the lack of confidence in our governmental institutions.

Let's listen in now on this Table Talk on democracy.

(upbeat music) - My name is Ana Cardenas Manrique, and I am a Marquette grad.

I will be the facilitator for this Table Talk conversation on democracy, and I'm excited to have a civic conversation with everybody.

- My name is Eloisa Gomez, and I'm from Milwaukee.

I care about democracy, so I'm here to listen and to learn.

- Hi, my name is Rochelle Johnson-Bent, and I'm born and raised here in Milwaukee.

The reason why I wanted to have this conversation is to discuss how we bring democracy to the people and their voices.

- I'm Kent Rice from Pewaukee.

Vietnam veteran, retired, here to discuss democracy and what it means to me, and doing it 'cause it sounds like it'd be an interesting activity to get involved with.

- I'm Madeleine Doelker Berlin.

I was born and raised in Germany, and I received my US citizenship a couple of years back.

I am here because I really deeply care about democracy.

- I'm Mark, I'm a high school teacher from West Bend, and I teach government.

I'm really excited to be here to talk about our democracy.

(upbeat music continues) - Welcome to our Vote 2024 Table Talk on democracy.

According to Gallup, just 28% of Americans are satisfied with the way democracy is working in the country, as has been echoed in some opening remarks.

This is a new low, down from the prior low of 35% measured shortly after the January 6th, 2021 attack on the Capitol.

I want to just pose this question to the group.

What about you?

Are you satisfied or dissatisfied with the way democracy is working in the country?

And what specifically concerns you?

- The 28% should be of concern to all of us.

What concerns me is how we're reacting to our concerns about democracy.

'Cause I could be a person who says, I'm really concerned about democracy, and I see it slipping.

But I think the important thing is, you know, what are we doing about it?

And I think, regardless of age, people are really, are frustrated about what's going on, but what are we doing about it?

So that's what we have to remind people.

How do we reenergize ourselves to help create the change to, you know, see ourselves being part of the solution?

- I think when I hear that percentage, 28%, I am not surprised.

I'm actually a little surprised it wasn't lower.

Because when I hear that percentage, I think that older generation numbers would've been higher.

But right now, the younger generations who are becoming more vocal are so fed up with the system.

So it may become a process of regression regarding having to almost tear down what has been here, 'cause it's just not working anymore.

And I think everyone needs to... You're not gonna come to an agreement what democracy is, but you need to be able to come to an agreement on how it can grow and what it should represent, and then build on that, right?

And I don't think right now we have a lot of people in power that can help do that.

- I also really think that people feel like there is no way they're being represented.

I think that's a big thing where they don't understand that, like, representatives don't really seem like someone who would actually represent your interests.

They seem like people who just are career politicians who've been doing that for a long period of time.

It feels like very, very few people hold a lot of power.

At least, I think that's what it feels like, and that doesn't feel very democratic.

- Your figure, 28%, I find a little, somewhat shocking.

I remember a recent figure, not too long ago, that the overall approval rate of Congress was around 11%, which, when you think about it, is absolutely horrible.

I think part of it is the fact that we've got...

Some of our representatives have, whether they be in the Senate or the House, they've been there for 30, 40, 50 years.

Our constitution wasn't set up, our country wasn't set up, for these people to be professional politicians.

You know, part of the problem as I see it is, we all complain about the Senate or the House, and these bums that are up there, but it's your bum, it's not my bum.

So we keep reelecting my bum, and you keep reelecting your bum, and it doesn't change, - Or replace my bum with your bum.

- There you go.

- They've done some studies on that, saying that we hate the institution, but we like our individual member.

Kent, you mention the polling numbers.

I think right now all three of our federal branches are under 50% approval rating across the board.

- That sure is low.

- Across the board.

Absolutely.

What is it about those people that are there all the time that's so institutionalized about the system?

Some of that is just how the system is set up.

You know, rules of the Senate that allow them to block votes without getting a super majority, or a Supreme Court that is gonna be there for life, and there's nothing you can really do about it.

So one of your options is to blow up the system.

The other option is to inject the system with a bigger populace and get more people involved in it.

Because if the people are upset at the institutions, one of the biggest issues that we have is apathy.

If we don't like the institution, well, then we're not going to engage, or we're not gonna fix it, or there's nothing I can do about it.

So my biggest thing with this democracy, working with young people, is how to try to get through to them how important that participatory democracy aspect is, how to engage the system in a positive way that they can see tangible change in a positive, peaceful way.

- Madeleine, I'd actually like to ask you this question.

As we turn to the elections, and being a naturalized citizen.

what has been your experience with the process, the election process?

What were elements of registration that were burdensome or difficult to achieve?

Or what has been your experience with elections as a whole?

- Oh.

(laughs) It's funny to me that I have to register in the first place, because in Germany it's just automated, basically.

As soon as the city knows where you live, and they know you have citizenship, they'll just send you your poll information, so you don't have to register in any way or shape.

So that is harder here, for sure.

And also, what I'm really confused about is the fact that elections are on Tuesdays.

I'm like, oh, cool.

That's very accessible.

(everyone laughing) - I agree that in terms of democracy that's supposedly like this American way, right, so we should be wanting to increase as many people's opportunities to vote.

So if democracy is such an American, well, American thing, you know, the American way, we want voters' rights, and people, you have these rights, and that's the good thing about being an American, then make it easy.

- In a recent Pew survey, 65% of Americans say that they always or often feel exhausted when thinking about politics.

So Eloisa, I'm interested to hear how you are feeling this coming election year, and what you think might reduce Americans' exhaustion about politics.

- I do feel that the media has a role in that exhaustion, because I like to keep up with the news, but honestly, I can't watch it too late at night, because I don't go to sleep well.

I catch some of the things that worry me, that trouble me.

I'm very troubled about where our democracy is going.

And then, when I feel that the media puts more of the spotlight on it on the negative side of things, I feel it really tells people, you know, why am I even trying to be involved if it's as bad as it looks?

- We need to get back to the days of Walter Cronkite, and you report the news.

Today, I don't care what you pick up, it's biased one way or the other, just the way it's worded.

I mean, there's a lot of commentary, and not reporting of the news, per se.

And I think that leads to polarization.

- I think, on the one hand, my hope lies with the young people and their quest for knowledge, and their push to wanna be part of our great experiment.

My hope is that, for the older generations of us that are out there, that we can make it happen in such a way that, especially with the next election, or the one after that, or the one after that, or the one after that... - Heading into this project, we weren't sure what would happen.

Could a food fight break out?

Might someone storm out of the middle of dinner?

Instead, it was quite the opposite.

There was no name calling or belittling.

Disagreements were handled with respect and curiosity.

In several cases, a perceived adversary became an ally.

Clearly, in our current environment, there is an appetite for restoring civility to our political discourse.

And as you'll hear, all of our Table Talk voters we're grateful for the opportunity to participate.

- As we're enjoying our dessert- - As you're enjoying your dessert- - Let's wrap up with some final reflections.

- What did you think about our conversation tonight?

- And over the last hour, did anything change for you?

- I thought it was a lively discussion.

I thought it was very interesting and informative for me.

And so I enjoyed it.

I love listening to different opinions, and I love listening to what people have to say.

That's how you learn.

That's how you grow as a person.

And so I enjoyed the conversation quite a bit.

- I think we've all had to think a little bit, and maybe reach deep a little bit.

I think this has really made me think about something, you know, that you don't think about every day.

You're disgusted with what's going on, and that kind of stuff, but beyond that, you're not delving deep into some of these topics.

I think it's been a very good exercise.

- I'm the ultimate optimist.

I do think that this table with different views, different people, different background, it seems like we have, again, more in common than we have differences.

So I hope we bring that type of approach everywhere.

And I think America in general, I think, is a good country, and I think people do have more in common than they think.

- I was prepared for there to be more different positions, and for there to be more argument.

I thought it was very, very, just talking about exhaustion in terms of politics, I thought it was actually very lovely to come together with people who seem like everyone is really passionate.

That, I think, was really good for my level of exhaustion, because I'm super exhausted.

And just having everyone come together and talk about it, and it's more like a group counseling thing (laughs) than anything else, you know?

- You'll receive the bill in the mail.

(everyone laughing) - I honestly didn't know if I was really gonna come here tonight.

I was letting God lead me.

I am glad that I came, and to meet everybody.

I mean, this is what America is about, the diversity right here, and the different opinions, and just to love one another, love your neighbor.

- That's gonna do it for the first part of our Vote 2024 Table Talk special.

Part two airs next month, and focuses on education and climate change.

Milwaukee PBS would like to extend thanks to our partners, the Marquette University's Civic Dialogues program, which does dinners like these with their students throughout the academic year.

And thank you to all of our participants, and to Engine Company No.

3 for hosting us.

For more information about the upcoming election, including what will be on your ballot, head over to myvote.wi.gov.

Be safe, stay informed, and don't forget to vote.

I'm Portia Young, and thanks for watching.

(upbeat music) (upbeat music continues) (upbeat music continues) (upbeat music continues)