Wyoming PBS Wyoming Public Media and Cowboy State Daily present Vote 2026: The Wyoming State Superintendent of Public Instruction Republican Primary Debate Live from the Little Theater on the campus of Central Wyoming College Greetings viewers and audience members and candidates from Central Wyoming College in Riverton.

Im Steve Peck, public affairs producer for Wyoming PBS.

Welcome to todays Republican primary election debate among candidates for Wyoming State Superintendent of Public Instruction.

That seat currently is held by Megan Degenfelder, a Republican who is not seeking reelection because she's running for governor.

The primary election is Tuesday, August 18th.

You heard our debate partners during the opening sequence of this debate, and we add our thanks now to Central Wyoming College and its president, Dr.

Brad Tyndall, for hosting us on campus tonight.

All ballot eligible candidates from both the Republican and Democratic parties were invited to take part in this debate.

Three Republicans accepted that invitation, and they're on stage now.

On the Democratic side, just one Democrat accepted the debate invitation.

So there will be no Democratic primary debate.

This debate is being aired and streamed live on Wyoming PBS and Wyoming Public Media.

Our debate comprises five segments.

First, a preview question was sent to all three candidates more than 24 hours ago.

I'll ask that question shortly to open the debate, and each candidate can respond for as long as 90s.

The candidates will respond from left to right in the order on stage in which you see them.

That order determined before the debate in a random drawing off stage in which the candidates participated.

Next, our panelists will ask three questions in sequence to the full slate of candidates.

Each candidate will answer the same question again, with 90s allowed for a response.

The candidate who started with the initial preview question wil respond to the candidate who responded second to the preview question will respond first to the first all panel question, and we'll proceed in order.

Third, we'll devote approximately eight minutes to a short answer lightning round with each candidate responding to a brief prompt from the panelists with 15 seconds allowed per response.

We expect to have time for about ten lightning round cues.

4th, our panelists will ask one round of individual questions.

That is a different question for each candidate.

The initial answers are limited to 60s, after which each remaining candidate in line will be permitted 20s for a rebuttal or other response to the initial candidate.

Then the first respondent will have a final 15 seconds if desired to follow up.

As always, we'll proceed down the line so that a different candidate goes first with each new question.

In a joint briefing before the debate, we expressed to the candidates that we expect and require civil conduct and decorum during the debate.

I'm the moderator of tonight's debate, and I will also be a questioning panelist as well.

Our remaining panel consists of two experienced Wyoming journalists Clair McFarland of Cowboy State Daily and Melodie Edwards of Wyoming Public Media.

And I'll note that Wyoming Public Media and Wyoming PBS have similar names, and we are friendly to partners in tonight's debate, but otherwise we are separate and unaffiliated institutions.

The timer for our debate tonight is Ryan Schuckman of Wyoming PBS.

He's operating a visual timing device, which many of you can see resembling a traffic light.

Timing of the candidate response begins the moment the candidate starts to speak with 10 seconds of the allotted time remaining, the yellow light will appear.

When five seconds remain, the light will flash, and when allotted time is expired, the red light appears and an alert will sound, and I will advise the candidate to stop.

I will say that reasonable allowance to complete a sentence, for example, is permissible.

But candidates, please don't abuse that flexibility.

Now we'll meet the candidates for the U.S.

House of rep for the Wyoming Superintendent of Public Instruction participating in tonight's primary debate.

Introduced from left to right on stage Chad Auer employee of the Department of Education in Wyoming.

Steve Harshman, a member of the Wyoming House of Representatives, and Tom Kelly, also a member of the Wyoming House.

And now let's begin.

Here's the preview question that I sent to the candidates yesterday.

Candidates, where did you receive your K-12 education?

What were the positive aspects of that experience for you that still stick out today?

And now that you're a candidate for state superintendent, are there elements of your K-12 experience that you believe could have been improved upon?

Mr.

Auer, your first respond 90s.

All right.

Thank you for that question, and I received my K through 12 education in Niwot, Colorado, where that was a community back in those days where it was a blue collar community.

AG some tech folks, most of our dads worked at IBM.

We were in Reagan country, had a front row seat to the People's Republic of Boulder.

And today Niwot Colorado is a much different place, but I was a beneficiary of a fantastic K through 12 education, a lot of very well-intentioned and compassionate educators.

In fact, they were so generous, they let me do fourth grade twice.

And it wasn't because I was excellent at it the first time, they felt like I needed to do it another time, just for good measure.

Which leads me to the next part about what could have been done better.

In my view, the reason that or one of the criticisms that I would have of my K through 12 education is that it was very narrowly tailored to college preparation and didn't leave much room for curiosity or anything outside of those bounds.

And you know, college prep was important, but it's not the entire thing.

So as state superintendent, I would intend to be a champion for the underdogs.

I'd be a champion for folks like me who've been battling their life from the middle of the bell curve, trying to trying to overcome that, trying to excel.

And and I'm going to be a superintendent that champions curiosity and make sure that content makes room for curiosity, doesn't squash it.

Thank you, Mr.

Harshman.

90s.

Yeah, thank you.

PBS for hosting us tonight.

Thank you all for being here.

And all the folks, good folks who Wyoming who have tuned in tonight.

We all appreciate you and appreciate these gentlemen throwing their name in the hat.

It's been a good race, the three of us, and I've enjoyed it.

I was blessed to receive all of my K-12 education right here in Wyoming, small town Wyoming, Natrona County School District in the little town of Midwest and small town Wyoming schools are the same as they are today.

They're the cornerstone of our communities.

We know that.

I mean, we only got a few towns, over 6000 people.

Most of our communities are 99 municipalities or small towns.

So really the cornerstone of our our communities.

My kindergarten teacher, Miss Coddington, you know, I still remember her.

Miss Brown, my first grade teacher, Miss Marvin second.

And then I had two wonderful miss Smith's, a third grader and a fourth grade, and then Miss Walsh, who not only taught for decades, but then went on and served in Natrona County School District Board of Trustees for decades.

And so then I go to junior high and high school and you know, and I've always said, as a lifelong educator, you know, most ideas are caught, not taught.

And we've all been in those classrooms where that enthusiasm of a teacher and just lights a fire under you.

And so I was really exposed, you know, to CTE education.

All of us were in the school play.

We all marched in the school band.

We all played four sports.

In those days.

You could play in the season and had all those opportunities.

And Coach Hoff and Mr.

Good were such inspirations in my life.

And so, in short, it was great.

And that's the beauty.

It'll keep getting better.

So thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Kelly.

And there's a second part about what would I improve if I could.

If you like.

That was the question.

Yes.

Thank you.

Well, I went to school in the suburbs of Chicago.

You can still hear it sometimes when I speak.

I am part of the 57% we are, believe it or not, the majority now of people who have chosen to live in Wyoming because we were not blessed to be born here.

But my education in the suburbs, northwest suburbs of Chicago was excellent.

I went to Hersey High School in Arlington Heights.

I did play basketball, and we also had plenty of time to work on things besides classroom academics, as we traditionally think of them.

We had an auto shop.

We had a great sports program.

So I'm, well, well versed in knowing how beneficial CTE can be for students that aren't necessarily college bound, don't have a desire to be in the classroom.

And it also, but what I'd like to see differently, what I'd like to see different.

And it's part of the reason I became a teacher is that I saw too much of large classrooms, kids sitting in rows, being told to just follow directions.

And so what I really enjoyed when I became a teacher from this was academic freedom that I was allowed when I became a public school teacher to be able to innovate with the curriculum and work with kids individually.

And I think sometimes we get away from that with top down policies.

But what I'd really like to improve about my my school experience was my dating and social life.

Candidates.

Thank you.

Our all-panel questions begin now.

We'll begin with Mr.

Harshman.

The first question comes from me.

Something I've noticed during my career in covering news is that across Wyoming, local school boards are elected and the local school superintendent is appointed in Wyoming.

As you three are proving, the superintendent is the elected official, there is a Wyoming Board of Education that is appointed.

Do you think that's a good situation?

Does it cause any dichotomy or conflict in Wyoming with that situation?

Mr.

Harshman, your first 90s.

Well, thanks for the question that you know, so the superintendent is one of the five constitutional officers elected.

It's in our Constitution since 1890.

And and actually in territorial days, part of the state, building commission before we were even a state.

But in Wyoming, you know, and all these Western states.

But our Constitution is really unique in its support for local control.

We have a provision in our Constitution that says the superintendent nor the legislature can prescribe textbooks.

And that is all about local school boards.

There's been kind of a run around that thing over the last 20, 20 years or so with standards based education.

More to talk about that and not in this format so much, but I think so, and then just so I don't forget your question, just tell me that again.

I think I. Thinking about the difference between.

Oh yeah.

Elected.

So.

So yeah.

And I always in the legislature, we, we have legislators who 1500 votes, they get elected and we got school board members, sometimes two, three, 4000 votes in a county wide election.

And so I think it's really important that that piece now, you asked specifically about the state Board of Education that was created by statute in 1917, because there's always this kind of our system of three branches of government.

There's a little tug of war all the time.

Judicial, legislative, executive.

And that was that was created by the legislature in 1917.

They were appointed by the governor.

But you're a member of that, and you're you're a very important member that's going to be building consensus and bringing ideas to that board.

So it's a very important role of this job.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Kelly.

To clarify, we were talking about the structure of an elected superintendent versus an appointed one.

Yes.

And how that's at odds with how seven counties.

I've lamented this on the campaign trail, that this position is one that is not only an elected position, but it's a partisan elected position.

So we often see what happens on the campaign trail or even in the primaries, people running for superintendent of public instruction, who maybe never have been an educator, maybe really have no interest in doing the job, but possibly see it as a springboard to higher office.

This was something that was first mentioned to me four years ago.

I was having a conversation with Governor Gordon when he passed me over to appoint Brian Schrader, and he had asked me point blank, do you plan on running for something else after this?

And the answer was no.

I didn't know I was going to run for the house at the time, but I understood what his question was.

And the reason I don't like that is because ultimately, when it comes to the next generation of kids, we're all supposed to be on the same side.

We're not necessarily going to agree on how we reach our goals, but our goals are all similar to make sure that the kids graduate as competent, prepared, critically thinking adults who are ready to take on the challenges of the world that we don't even know what they are going to be tomorrow.

That being said, we do have an elected partisan office.

Thus, we have a Republican primary.

We're talking about it right now.

So I'd like to thank both gentlemen right here for being able to talk specifically about what we can do to improve our educational system versus take political shots at one another.

Thank you, Mr.

Auer.

Yeah, I also appreciate the question.

And I will say that I'm going to miss having these kinds of conversations with these guys when this campaign is over, because this is exactly what inspires me.

But specific to your question, you know, about a, I think about a third of the states elect their state superintendent.

And when although I wasn't one of the founders of Wyoming, my understanding is, is that part of the benefits of electing your state chief education officer.

When our founders went all in on that was that they would be directly accountable to voters.

And there's something very healthy about that, in my view.

As Tom pointed out, there's some cons to it.

You can get somebody who's a very skilled and well-heeled politician that has only political ambitions in mind when they make education decisions.

But I'm going to say this is that in 2026, the gentleman on this stage, we are ambitious enough to throw our hats in the ring to win an election, but we're also interested in making good sound education policy that's going to be unique in a state that elects their state chief.

For the reasons that I think we've mentioned before, in terms of the State Board of Education has been pointed out.

You know, the state superintendents job is hemmed in statutorily and constitutionally, and they are required to work collaboratively, not just with the state Board of Education, but with the legislature and and leaders around the state.

So I think it's the perfect system of all systems available.

Candidates.

Thank you.

We'll continue with the all panel questions with Clair McFarland.

Thank you.

How will you handle the school choice provisions Wyoming already has?

And what is your prevailing philosophy towards school choice?

Mr.

Kelly, your first 90s.

One of the first things we have to do is see exactly how the Wyoming Supreme Court rules on the constitutionality of the steamboat legacy that's currently being implemented.

The job of the superintendent would be, if it is ruled constitutional, to support the intent of the law, to make sure that the law functions as efficiently and effectively as intended, which would include making sure that if we do open up school choice to private providers for the public, for the general public, that we have competent private providers.

I fully agree with the idea of school choice being driven by parents in communities, not necessarily being driven by the National Education Association and their nationwide opposition to school choice when it comes to making rules for that, though, I would really like to see a a more a stricter vetting of the vendors that we we allow right now to receive these funds if it is held up, if it's not, we have to wait to see what the legislature does.

And then I would support public school choice, as they have in Natrona County.

Thank you, Mr.

Auer.

90s.

Sure.

Let me start by just saying my general view on school choice is that school choice should enhance our public school system.

It shouldn't be used as a wrecking ball to destroy what's working well I would take this opportunity also to point out that one thing that I think is unique about my candidacy is that not only have I worked in traditional public education, traditional public schools, neighborhood schools, but I've also worked in charters, onlines and alternative schools.

I've worked in a in a wide range of different educational settings.

And I think that the question about how do we navigate, how do we fulfill our mission of public education in this country?

How are we going to do that forward?

We have to diversify our curricular instructional program.

We have to provide more options for kids so that their curiosities are nurtured, respected, and honored.

And one way to do that is to provide more options over the last several decades, I would say, or maybe even a more accurate description would be over the whole history of American public education is that we've often fallen into a very narrow one size fits all kind of modality.

And the and that has been at our own peril.

Again, my view on school choice and specific to Wyoming is that we have some charter schools, we have some online schools, some alternative schools, we have some alternative options going on through the ride program.

Those need to be nurtured.

They need to be accountable and they need to be student focused.

Mr.

Harshman.

Thank you.

And a question specifically on the Steamboat Legacy Scholarship that Wyoming has passed.

First of all, I think you look at Wyoming's history, we have a lot of choice already in our public schools.

We've had district charter schools.

Now we have state charter.

They're all public schools.

And we started, you know, there's five our Constitution again, you know, we raise our right hand to obey the Constitution.

There's at least five sections that prohibit these type of appropriations.

So I argued that on the House floor that this thing got swept in.

We'll see what the court does with it.

But just a month ago, at our first debate in Upton, Wyoming, there were 445 providers online.

About 60 of them were schools.

Okay, all over the country.

So I just looked actually today, and this is a report as of July 20th.

So 20 days ago.

So it's more than doubled.

There's 900 providers now, a hundred schools that are on the Department of Education website that are out here doing this, because the feed trough is out there and they're lining up for it, and there is no accountability.

There is no testing to this.

And they are located a lot of them in Wyoming, certainly Oregon, California, Utah, Texas, South Dakota, Arizona, Florida, all across the country.

Our precious tax dollars for our kids.

And we want to make this a Wyoming program.

So if I'm the superintendent, I'll write the rules in such a way.

We're not going to hire an out-of-state corporation and pay them 400,000 bucks to vet these out-of-state providers.

They're going to come to Cheyenne and interview and make it work for our kids.

Thank you candidates.

Thank you, Mr.

Auer, your first for our next question.

It comes from Melodie Edwards.

You've all previously expressed a need to support and retain teachers.

Please provide some nuts and bolts examples of how to best do that.

Yeah, that's a critical question and issue for Wyoming as we're moving forward.

Look, my view on this is, is that we will retain we will attract and retain teachers when they are respected, when they're fairly compensated, and when they're given the support that they need.

We also need to make sure that housing is affordable for them.

And certainly that housing issues and policy are not necessarily in the purview of the state superintendent, but we have a very real problem in Wyoming when it comes to the pipeline of teachers.

I've had the privilege of working with and talking with prospective educators at the University of Wyoming, and I am very candid with them that they can teach anywhere they want in 307.

And I'm also very motivated if you hire me as your state superintendent to engage with local school districts to create and implement a very aggressive human capital strategy where we're going to go out, not only retain our teachers, keep our teachers in Wyoming, respect them, compensate them and support them.

But we're going to go out around the country, and we're going to recruit the best teachers out there to come to Wyoming because we have a teacher shortage.

There's some folks that are in denial about that, but we do, and we need to be aggressive and we need to be innovative when it comes to keeping and retaining great teachers in our classrooms.

Thank you, Mr.

Harshman.

Yeah.

Thank you.

I, you know, pay is a part of that.

Let's face that.

I mean, Wyoming used to be in the top five.

We're not in the top ten anymore in average teacher wages.

We tried to help that with this recalibration.

Hopefully we'll talk more about that.

So pay is a part of it.

30 years ago, about 30% of the kids in our colleges were in teacher prep.

It's in the single digits now.

There's just nobody really.

So you get elected to this job.

What you say, what I call the tone at the top, you're going to set the tone and the culture as Wyoming a great place to come teach, raise your family, have a living wage, have affordable housing.

So this job is really important because you're going to set that tone right.

And I'll just tell you, you got people sending you stuff in your mailbox.

You got people knocking on your door, sending the other tone.

So I'm going to tell the story and I'm going to tell the truth about our schools and our kids and our teachers and how well we're doing.

And yeah, is it perfect?

Of course not.

But it's a, it's a human thing and we're going to keep getting better.

So appreciation is the number one motivator.

And you got to set that tone and tell this Wyoming story is so important.

And then I think, you know Chad brought up the housing piece, you know, state Loan and Investment Board is going to play a key role in this with leases with funding of WCDA, with infrastructure grants to local communities.

These are all things for our young families.

So they can come here and buy a home and live the American dream.

My first home mortgage in Wyoming was WCDA.

Like many of yours, I'm sure.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Kelly.

There's a huge difference between telling teachers how much we appreciate them and actually demonstrating it.

And when we talk about how we trust teachers with our kids and their future, but do we legislate as such?

Does the superintendent's position produce rules that say they trust educators?

Now, as somebody who's taught in private schools, public schools, at universities, hybrid online, I mentioned before academic freedom, and I was successful and I worked with some of the most challenging students who are in their 30s now, and they're still friends with me because of the way I was able to individually reach them.

We handcuff our educators with a myriad of regulations and standards and boxes to check off, and a wide top that's way too long to prepare them for.

And then when they're jumping from one standard to the next, before the kids have even mastered it, because it's got to be done.

The state's got that long list of all the things you have to hit.

Then we come down on the teachers.

When the WY-TOPP scores aren't quite what we want, or the nation's report card shows that 70% of our kids aren't proficient in eighth grade.

and reading.

The teachers should not be the scapegoat for the politicians, for the regulators, for whomever at this point.

So if we want teachers to enjoy their job, I think the state needs to back off and support them rather than continuously try to mandate success from the top.

Thank you.

Our next question comes from me, Mr.

Harshman.

That concludes this section of the all panel questioning.

We'll move down to the lightning round.

Short prompts 15 seconds to respond.

We'll go for as long as we have time to go.

The first comes from me.

WY-TOPP.

Mr.

Harshman, you're first.

Standards based test takes over ten hours to complete.

Please go on.

The Department of Education website and take the fourth grade reading test.

I dare you go see what a fourth grade kid has to do on an iPad.

And when I talked about my teachers, they actually had time to teach us, right?

And not being told what to teach and how to teach it by the government.

Thank you, Mr.

Kelly.

15 seconds.

As the WY-TOPP exists currently, it tests students attention span more than tests their proficiency.

And I think it causes undue anxiety for educators.

Too long.

Mr.

Auer.

WY-TOPP is too expensive, too time consuming.

It disrupts learning.

It doesn't enhance it.

Thank you.

Our next prompt is from Clair McFarland.

Recalibration.

Yes, Mr.

Kelly, you're first.

Okay, that's me.

Imperfect, but a step in the correct direction.

Unanimous support on the committee.

Huge support in the House and unanimous support in the Senate.

Mr.

Auer.

Mixed.

It gave teachers a much deserved boost and compensation, but it came at the expense of local control, which is unacceptable to me.

Mr.

Harshman.

The good, the bad, the ugly.

There are a few good things, a lot of bad things.

Some real ugly things.

The local control piece is really ugly.

There was a lot of talk about.

Oh, we haven't recalibrated in 15 years.

And that's inexperienced people who have not been involved in it.

We recalibrate every five years, but we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

And that's what we did.

This go around.

So I say repeal and restore what we had.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Our next prompt is from Melodie.

Phones in Classrooms.

Mr.

Kelly, you're first.

Again.

Sure.

Phones in classrooms.

Terrible idea.

Should not be allowed in there.

Not the state's job though.

I would like to see the local districts make their policies that work for their communities.

Mr.

Auer.

Local control issue.

But phones in classrooms are an unnecessary distraction.

Mr.

Harshman.

Yeah, I think we all agree.

And I think the state has taken steps to direct the local school boards to develop their own policies, which I think is important.

And we know now average American is eight hours a day on that.

And our kids, we can see it.

I've seen it as a lifelong educator and,.

Thank you.

The next prompt is from me, Mr.

Auer.

We've got out of order there slightly, but you'll go first this time.

Megan Degenfelder 15 seconds.

Our current state superintendent running for governor.

Okay.

Thank you sir.

Mr.

Harshman.

Yeah.

Natrona County High School grad, 2007.

I knew her as a little kid.

Knowing her dad and her family.

Her two brothers played football for us.

Mr.

Kelly.

Motivated and talented.

Thank you.

Clair McFarland has the next prompt.

Mr.

Harshman, you're first.

Activities.

Yeah.

Really a co-curricular part of education.

Many kids come to school to learn and be a part of things.

And that was part of the ugly was cut and went from a school base to a district base, Lincoln two, which has a quarter of the students in Natrona County received basically the same cut.

It's ridiculous.

So.

Mr.

Kelly.

That was one of the mess ups of the recalibration team came from the consultant.

That formula is already being worked on.

The good side is that the quick fix to it is that districts are either going to get what they previously would have gotten, or they're going to get more than last time.

Yeah, activities are a critical part in diversifying the curricular instructional program in education.

They're critical.

They're crucial.

They're essential.

They should be funded.

Thank you.

Our next prompt is from Melodie Edwards.

State funded preschool.

Mr.

Kelly, you're first.

I don't like it.

I don't like mandating that we take care of kids from cradle to grave.

We currently have the ESA program, which allows for some of that for it's means tested.

But in general, I don't want the state taking over for, I mean, for preschool.

Mr.

Auer.

Yeah, I friendly disagreement on that.

I think that it's essential.

I think that it's a part of the future.

Our kids deserve it.

Our communities deserve that.

And if it's we should fund it and it should be a part of our curricular offering.

Mr.

Harshman.

Yeah.

Thank you.

As I traveled around the state, there are 48 school districts.

It's already happening in several of our schools.

Right.

And as we have fewer students because our birth rate is dropping, we're going to have space in our buildings.

So it's not going to be an issue of construction or all those things.

Most of our schools are going to start to shrink a little bit.

I think it fits well to help our young families.

Thank you.

The next prompt is from me.

STEM versus humanities.

Mr.

Auer.

Oh, versus yeah, both.

Sorry, I can't choose on that.

Okay.

Mr.

Harshman.

Yeah, I think that's our education system.

I launched rockets and made stained glass in Midwest high school.

So I think all those things we got to unlock and expose our kids to, and then they'll go from there.

Mr.

Kelly.

I think we're going to see a resurgence in the humanities as A.I.

takes over more and more of the STEM activities.

And I think we really need to get people back to exercising their minds versus exercising their fingers.

Thank you.

That's all the time we've got for the lightning round.

And I thank you for your participation in that change of pace.

We'll move now to individual candidate questions addressed to candidates.

60 second initial response.

20s response or rebuttal from the remaining candidates and a 15 second follow up.

If the initial respondent likes.

Our first question is from Clair McFarland.

Legislators are currently reevaluating how much screen time our students should have, how many computers per student.

Sorry.

After a judge mandated one for one.

Ideally absent a judge's order, what's your approach to that?

Mr.

Harshman, you're first.

Yeah.

Thank you.

And, you know, it was interesting because the Supreme Court, that was one of the directives to study that 1 to 1 more of a, you know to make sure our kids have an equal opportunities around the state.

But I think we're seeing a lot of research on screen time.

And I hear it from educators all over.

And and particularly with A.I.

And with teachers going back to just reading real books, paper books and writing assignments.

Now, because A.I.

Can produce all this stuff and print it off.

And really, we're trying to get kids to exercise that and work their brain.

And so you're seeing kind of things go in cycles.

A lot of times in our, in our society.

And I think you're seeing a nice cycle coming back on that.

And so I think we're going to there's an awareness of it.

There's a lot of studies on it.

And I think there's there's going to be a move to kind of correct some of that where we've gone a little too far.

Mr.

Kelly 20s to respond.

I would encourage the districts K through second grade to get rid of screens as much as you can to bring back pens and paper so students learn how to not just recognize letters, but actually be able to formulate them and collect.

It connects so many more neurons.

The state can't dictate it, but I would lead by example that we need less screen time before third grade.

Mr.

Auer 20s.

Love these answers.

I'm just going to add this is that technology should be a tool.

It shouldn't replace teaching.

So and I would also add that curricular decisions are local in Wyoming.

So as state superintendent, I would partner with folks.

I wouldn't be telling them what to do.

Neither should the legislature.

Mr.

Harshman 15 more seconds, if you like.

Yeah.

And I think we all agree on this, but, you know, just an example.

I was just up in the mountains here last week with our senior football players at a leadership retreat, and the parents had written their sons a letter, kind of a secret homework assignment.

And then I had the boys write their parents a letter and I told them there's something kind of magical that connects your brain to your hand.

When you put this on paper, it's different than this.

And I think a lot of teachers are doing that.

Melodie next, our next question for.

Is from Melodie Edwards.

And the question begins with Mr.

Kelly.

Wyoming has some of the highest suicide and the lowest mental health rates in the country.

How can we make our schools places where kids can find greater inspiration and satisfaction in their educational experience?

Two practical considerations I can think of right now.

Because for one, there are so many aspects that go into a child's mental health that we can't touch, like home life or whatever goes on outside of the school.

One is to get away from screens and phones.

As we were talking about before, there's been a spike in mental health issues with the spike in screen time, but also school has to have the temperature turned down figuratively.

I'm a literalist.

Anxiety leads to depression.

It makes kids not want to go to school.

And sometimes if the teacher's anxious that energy spills onto the kids.

When I've had a rough day, the kids could tell.

When I was in the classroom.

I didn't take it out on them, but they can tell the difference.

They could pick up on that energy.

So if we can have more personal relationships between the educators and the kids and fewer relationships with the screens and take some of the pressure off the teachers so they're having more fun and there's less stress in the classroom, at least from the educational perspective.

We can make the kids look forward to coming to school.

Thank you, Mr.

Auer.

20s.

Yeah next to supporting teachers, addressing mental health is one of our most important things.

We have souls to tend to and to nurture and to take care of.

So one thing that we can do is certainly invest in mental health support, but we also need to unleash curiosity.

That is a one step towards battling and making sure that folks feel membership in our communities and in our schools.

Thank you, Mr.

Harshman.

Yeah.

Thank you.

I think that's one of the good things in the recalibration.

I said the good, the bad, the ugly.

There are more elementary counselors provided for in the recalibration I think is good.

I brought a bill a year ago.

I've been bringing that bill to put that as part of our whole state instruction.

And I know it's that push on prescribing what to teach, but it's so important because Wyoming has led that awful statistic for a long time.

I was chairman of revenue when we did the 988 line.

We're trending in the right direction, but a lot of work to do.

Thank you, Mr.

Kelly.

15 more seconds if you'd like it.

Nothing to add, sir.

All right.

Next question comes from me, a very common phrase used among elected policymakers is Wyoming education isn't getting enough bang for the buck.

What do you think about that, Mr.

Auer?

Your first.

I don't agree with that, to be honest with you.

I've, throughout my career had the opportunity to travel around and visit schools, work with schools across Wyoming, but also in other states.

And I know for a fact Wyoming's getting a bang for their buck.

We have the best public school system in the country.

We can get better.

We need to get better.

We need to embrace innovation in the future.

But boy, we I disagree with those who say that we're not getting a return on our investment.

We are absolutely getting a return on that investment.

The answer is not wrecking balls.

Chicago Public Schools is not getting a return on their investment.

They need chemotherapy.

Wyoming does not need chemotherapy.

That belongs in Chicago.

We need to invest in our already strong school system and make it even better.

America is waiting for us to rise to this moment.

As your state superintendent, I'm going to be a part of that.

Thank you, Mr.

Harshman.

Inexperienced politicians, unfortunately, are using a state standards test, which is a bell curve, which is meant to guide instruction, to say half our seniors can't read or half our third graders can't read.

ACT we're one of 15 states that tests every kid.

Two years ago, we were number one.

Last year we were number two.

We're probably going to be 1 or 2 again this year.

The NAEP, which is a 40 year measurement that you can compare back the nation's report card.

We're number five.

Again, more and more of that.

Mr.

Kelly.

Not much time.

No we're not, we're not.

There is too much money, too many resources being eaten up in administration.

And then we come down on the local school districts after we give them all these mandates and reports they have to follow and they have to they have to redirect resources out of the classroom to keep up these mandates.

The state can take a step back, get more resources into the classroom.

There are way too many kids going to community college who need remedial reading and math when they get there.

It's a very it's a shockingly high percentage.

Sauer 15 more seconds if you'd like it.

I don't need it.

Okay.

Next question is from Clair McFarland.

Thank you.

Controversy is about sexually explicit books exploded into the news cycle starting in about 2022.

Is it the superintendent's job to address that, and if so, how?

Mr.

Harshman, you first.

I think the short answer is yes.

You have to address that as a leader.

That tone at the top is really important.

And I think and part of that, you got to make sure you're telling the story, you know, sometimes you got to make sure that what the facts that are out there because a lot of things exploded out there that weren't true.

I mean, I was told there were litter boxes in, in restrooms and Casper schools.

It's not never has been.

And I think, you know, the biggest thing I think we got to really work about to protect our kids.

Obviously, we're not going to have books in our schools.

I've voted in support of that, man.

We got to watch what's on their phone, too.

And I brought bills that have kids who are underage at least have parental permission to join all these sites and all these other groups.

And then parents say, oh, I'm friends with them.

Well, I'll tell you, you're friends with the account, you know, about not their fake accounts.

And it's, it is so insidious, all this.

And so I think we got to really be careful.

The technology piece, as much as our libraries, which we'll do a great job.

And I think people responded to that.

And I think we've done a good job as a legislature.

And I think our school school trustees have done a nice job.

Mr.

Kelly 20s.

This is an issue that's caused a division between school boards and parents, because many parents would say, no, the school boards are not doing their job.

And what I would like to do as superintendent is reinstitute something called communication.

Instead of dividing up into sides, us versus them.

So school boards feel the need to circle the wagons and get defensive and go on the defensive for everything.

Make parents feel like they could talk to districts and districts, like they could work with parents again.

I would lead from the top to show that we can speak with people that we disagree with and come to a solution that's amenable to everyone.

Mr.

Auer.

Yeah, I think.

Part of the question was, is it the state superintendent's job?

That starts to pull on that boundary of curriculum.

Therefore, I think that it is actually the job of local school districts to decide the books that are in the classrooms.

Personally, I don't think we should spend tax dollars on sexually explicit materials, particularly in public school libraries and particularly in elementary schools.

And, and I think I well, I would be a thought partner with school districts as they develop policies that evaluate and, and identify books and then make decisions at the local level.

Mr.

Harshman, 15 more seconds, if you'd like.

Yeah, I think we're all kind of in agreement on that.

So thank you.

Okay.

Next question from Melodie Edwards.

You've advocated for cutting regulations to allow school districts to meet their local needs.

Which specific state regulations would you cut, or how would you go about identifying which ones to cut?

Mr.

Kelly, you're first.

The first thing I'd like to do is because this is not something the superintendent can do unilaterally, is to work with the State Board of Education, to work with the legislature, to revisit the profile of a graduate, to revisit the basket of goods, to pair these down to the fundamentals of English and math literacy, CTE, the basics of things that kids will need.

And with fewer, fewer targets to hit than they can prioritize, what's most important.

And that's literacy.

Because if the kids aren't reading by third grade, then they have trouble reading, catching up the rest of the time, and learning everything else.

So the regulations specifically I would like to look at is paring back the targets we're hitting, because every time we put out a goal or a standard, there are pages of regulations that follow.

We saw that recently with the literacy law.

That was about three pages long and produced 30 pages of regulations.

So getting the state to take a step back and prioritize what we need to do, we could cut all the regulations that come along with the things we don't need to be doing.

Thank you, Mr.

Auer.

Yeah, there's a couple of things that come to mind in terms of policies that if we were to knock them down, would be in, in the good news for local school districts, one is silos in the recalibration bill silos took away a lot of local control and the ability of districts to make decisions on their behalf.

Our standards or stack of standards is too big.

We need to par that down, focus them.

Another one is we need to give school districts flexibility in their school calendars.

I have a lot more to say about that, but.

Mr.

Harshman.

Yeah, thank you.

You know, and as I toured around our 48 school districts, number one was reporting, I fill out the same report five times.

Different deal.

Nobody looks at it and it takes us hours and hours and hours to do this.

It's got to be a better way.

So I heard that from customer service.

They heard from districts say, you know, we'd like to get back to working together instead of playing the gotcha game.

You missed that box.

Oh, now we're going to sanction you on the thing.

I think standards is a piece.

And also school lunch program is a huge piece I'm hearing out there from our districts.

Candidates.

Thank you.

The next question comes from me, Mr.

Auer.

You'll be first.

Oh, I'm sorry, 15 more seconds.

Yes, sir.

Sir, would you like to.

I know I don't get 30s here.

One of the things I'd like to look at, because that just spurred something right there is I asked the Department of Education one time, what do you do with all these reports?

And they said, well, we collect them.

So I would like to see the reports that have been collected for years and done nothing with.

And we obviously don't need these.

Thank you.

Our next question is from me, Mr.

Auer.

You'll be first.

Candidates and legislators in Cheyenne often talk about the value of local control for school districts.

My experience has been that oftentimes the local school district has a different definition of local control from what the people in Cheyenne do.

Explain yourself.

Legislator is going to have to the legislators are legislators.

Local control.

But yeah, no local control is it's funny because no matter what branch or level of government you're talking to, there are big fans of local control.

As long as it means they're in control.

I think that and I think it's very important that local control in Wyoming means local communities are in control of their destiny.

That's not a guarantee of excellent decisions every time.

But the answer to the dynamic, the difficult job of community leadership is accountable.

Local elections, not top down mandates or legislation as well as it might be from Cheyenne to erode local control, local communities should be empowered, and then that local control, that local empowerment should be respected by state level government officials.

Mr.

Harshman.

Yeah, I've said it many, many times.

You see state legislators do this to local government, to school districts, county government, the same things complain about the federal government doing to the state of Wyoming.

It's unfortunate.

I think again, this recalibration was a classic example.

And they used the the dollars aren't going to the teachers.

They're going to the admin.

Well, I think if they'd actually read the crew report they could see where the dollars go.

And it was really unfortunate.

So.

Mr.

Kelly.

You could see some daylight between me and the other the other candidates on this one.

Local control for me is local control of who's getting hired, how teaching is being done, the curriculum being developed, the textbooks they'd like to use.

That's what local control is.

But when the state is financing something, when we fund roads, we expect the roads to be built.

When we appropriate money to pay teachers, we expect the teachers to be paid.

So if the state's funding it, the state should have a say in how that money is spent.

Mr.

Auer, 15 more seconds if you'd like.

I don't need it.

Okay.

My friend, Mr.

Harshman could.

Use it if you donate your time to him.

I yield the balance.

No, and I just.

And I appreciate Mr.

Kelly.

I actually, the state doesn't fund it.

It's funded with our local property taxes.

You guys in Fremont County are paying property taxes.

70% of them go to your schools, and then the state makes up any of that.

And people who have more property tax, it goes to the state to redistribute to the rest of us.

But we're like every state in the country.

We fund our schools with property taxes and minerals, pay most of our property taxes, local property taxes.

I think we have time for one more question.

It'll come from Clair McFarland.

Should the state fund the school lunch programs, nutrition programs?

Mr.

Harshman, you're first there.

Yeah.

Thank you for that question.

I, you know, we get about 120 million in federal dollars some of that's head start, some of it's community colleges, some of it's you know, Perkins grants for CTE and some of it's the lunch program, the food program.

It's changed dramatically in the last 15 years.

And I hear that and several of our districts have kind of backed out of that.

And they're using local home grown products.

I think we got to have that discussion because, you know, a 17 year old boy used to be able to go in and get and then maybe get seconds even.

And now they get a little square thing with no salt on it.

I don't even know what it is.

And and that's been pushed down on us from the federal government, frankly.

And I hear that from our district.

So I think that's something we can encourage and do our own home grown products, right?

With our with our ag community.

And again, several of our districts really got some really neat programs.

And I think we get together and learn from each other how we can continue to improve it.

Mr.

Kelly.

I have to agree with Steve just said right there, local innovation is a great idea.

Let communities try and meet their kids where they are.

Nobody in Wyoming is going to let a kid go hungry.

We're just not.

But I get concerned when the state takes over, people then step back and say, why should I do anything?

The state's feeding these people, even families that don't need to do that.

So I would like to see more collaboration among districts about what works for them.

Mr.

Auer.

Yeah, I agree, we need to take care of our kids and some of our kids and their families.

They need a boost when it comes to nutrition.

And I think it's definitely within our responsibility and within our mission in public education to take care of the nutrition needs of kids.

They're Harshman another 15 seconds.

Yeah.

I can still feel this.

My first year of teaching, I thought every kid came to school with warm breakfast and clean clothes because that's what happened.

That's what happened.

My experience and all my friends.

And I was really shocked at that.

And then I remember when we went from lunch to also feeding breakfast and man, until you've kind of been in that, it's, it's an important role that schools have had to step up to.

And we got to support them when we to do that properly.

Candidates.

Thank you.

We've reached the end of the question and answer portions of the debate.

Each candidate now will have 45 seconds for a closing statement.

We'll begin with Mr.

Young and go from.

He's not here.

I'm sorry.

We'll go with Mr.

Kelly.

I'm sorry about that.

You were third when the opening question.

You'll be first for the closing statement.

45 seconds, sir.

Thank you, everyone, for coming here.

I'm Tom Kelly, I'm running for state superintendent.

My website is SuperTomKelly.com.

It was available, so I took it.

The difference between me and the other two gentlemen here who are both thoroughly competent to do this job, if you don't choose me, is I really have a faith in free people and communities to lead their destiny.

And sometimes we talk about the importance of parents, but then we don't trust them.

The state should do this.

The district should do that.

So I'm really hoping when you go to the ballot box, if you haven't yet, that you will and you think about who up here on the stage really has faith in local communities, local educators and parents to work together to solve their problems and not look to the almighty state to to solve everything.

Thank you.

Mr.

Harshman.

Yeah, thank you again for this opportunity.

Steve Harshman.

I'm a native of Wyoming.

I believe in the Wyoming that I grew up in, and I've raised my four kids in my lovely wife, who is a lifelong first grade teacher.

I've been blessed to serve and I served in the legislature, served two terms as speaker.

I chaired school facilities.

I wrote the Hathaway Scholarship, full day kindergarten, protected girls sports.

I put a lot of years into education policy.

It's been such a blessing to work for the state of Wyoming.

And and this job has so many important aspects from investment income, which is now our largest source of income.

It's incredible to have somebody that has worked on that.

But I'm going to continue, you know, so I know the budget, I know our laws, I know our Constitution, and I'm going to keep the focus really on our kids and our schools.

The really cornerstone of our communities.

And because when our kids succeed, Wyoming is going to succeed and we want them to stay here and keep building and live the American dream right here in Wyoming.

And, you know, Governor Hathaway and the board didn't say no to coal.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Mr.

Auer.

Yeah, thank you again for the opportunity to apply for this job.

It's been a tremendous honor.

There's a few days left in the interview process.

I'm looking forward to that.

But generally speaking, this has been an awesome opportunity to share the stage with these guys and to also talk about education policy.

But I'm going to say this, Wyoming, we have a really important decision to make.

The United States Department of Education is dismantling those responsibilities.

Don't go away.

They need to come to the states.

No state is better positioned to show America how to do public education today and in the future than Wyoming.

We're nimble.

We're strong.

The best way to honor that strength, in my view, is to boldly seize this moment, to look to the future, with courage, with optimism, and equip kids, particularly kids who fall through the cracks.

You know, we need to make sure that we're taking care of those kids with disabilities and the underdogs out there.

But we have an opportunity to do this, right.

So let's embrace that opportunity.

It's been an honor to be a part of this and hope you hire me.

Candidates.

Thank you for your participation tonight.

Remember, this debate can be seen anytime online at Wyoming PBS and on YouTube.

The primary election is August 18th around Wyoming.

Early voting has already begun.

Contact your local county clerk's office for instructions on early voting.

If that's your preference.

Wyoming PBS plans two more debates this week for U.S.

Senate and Governor on Thursday, August 13th from here at Central Wyoming College.

We hope to see you then.

Thanks for being with us.

You're watching Wyoming PBS.