- Just ahead on Black Issues Forum, election mailing rules are changing.

District lines are shifting and North Carolina is the only state still without a budget.

We're asking what does all of this mean for your vote and your family?

We find out coming up next.

Stay with us.

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(upbeat music) ♪ ♪ - Welcome to Black Issues Forum.

I'm Kenia Thompson.

As North Carolinians prepare for the March 3rd primary elections and November midterms, voters will now face changes from new mailing deadlines and feel the impacts of redistricting.

Additionally, a stalled state budget and changes to SNAP benefits have real consequences for everyday North Carolinians.

Joining me to break it all down are North Carolina State Senator Natalie Murdock and political analyst Steve Rao.

Welcome.

- Hi, good to be here.

- How are you?

A lot to pack into our 30 minutes here, but Senator, I'd love to start with you.

We saw national changes to mailing restrictions or deadlines or rules.

How has that impacted our states locally?

- Yes, so we now have new postmarking rules where there was a time that you go to the mailbox and it is postmarked on that same day, or even if it's from your home and you leave it for the mailman to get it, it's postmarked on the same day.

New rules that stamp will no longer occur on the day that you mail this item.

The date will align with whenever it is processed.

I'm sure folks at home are saying, wait a minute, I can't control when the mail is processed.

What does this even mean?

So this change is huge for voting, for paying your taxes, paying your bills.

There are time sensitive items that you need to mail.

And we all, you know, previously lived in the world where if you knew you physically got to the mailbox on that day, it would be postmarked on that same day.

So whether it is your form to register to vote, whether it is your, you know, an additional form, an address change form you may have around voting, your taxes, bills, my mom still mails a number of her bills.

That could be a big deal.

You don't want to be dinged or get a late fee if something comes in late.

But really when it comes to voting, it is going to have national implications.

You have entire states that do mail-in voting.

They will be the most impacted.

Here in North Carolina, it's still concerning because of other forms that are needed to vote.

But unfortunately for us, conservatives beat us to the punch on this one.

We already changed the state law a few years ago that if your ballot is not received on election day, it is not counted.

There was a time that you had a little bit of a grace period as long as it was postmarked by election day.

And we unfortunately already have state law that changed that.

- And so now that it has to be in-house on election day or else what happens to that ballot after?

- It is not counted.

If it was in the state of North Carolina, if it is received after election day, it is not counted.

That is a recent change that has been within the last three to four years or so.

Particularly during COVID when most folks were mailing in their ballots, the courts provided a little bit of a grace period so that it was postmarked by election day and received a day or two later.

It was still counted because it was still in the processed in the mail on election day.

- Well, Steve, when we hear this, who is most likely going to be impacted by these changes?

- Communities of color, seniors, people with disabilities, people that are, you know, we are all working harder for the dollar in inflationary times.

So sometimes people don't have the flexibility to leave their job to go vote.

Even during lunch, people are working through their lunch, working past when the polls are open.

And so the mail-in is a real advantage, right, in terms of being able to do that.

- So we are not saying that there isn't going to be a mail-in option.

It is just we have to plan a little bit.

- You have to plan.

And a minor mistake, let's say you don't get it to the election day, on the election day, then your vote is not going to be counted.

And we know, the senator knows that these elections, whether at the congressional level, the legislative level, even at the local level, can be done with narrow margins.

Even Attorney General Stein, we forget in his first race, only won by 10,000 votes.

He is now our governor, right?

So imagine if it had gone the other way.

So I think that these are the things that -- it is very confusing, these last-minute changes for voters as well.

- What are these last-minute changes?

Like, how do we see this impact our vote?

Like, do we see numbers being impacted greatly?

And then how do we ensure that people get this information?

- It is going to have a huge impact because I still have to start to, when we first changed the law that I voted against, we argued against it, that one change of saying a ballot has to be received on election day, even if it is postmarked, for -- you know, to say that it should be counted, that one law impacts over 10,000 votes.

So back to the numbers of when Governor Cooper was first elected governor of North Carolina, he won by 10,000 votes.

So you already had Donald Trump around five months ago to say, I'm concerned about mail-in voting.

And, you know, so he already telegraphed having concerns about mail-in voting.

So it is not a coincidence that when we are on the precipice of a huge midterm, traditionally, whoever is in office, that party loses a lot of seats.

President Obama lost over 50 seats in Congress in the U.S.

House when he was president.

Midterms are not kind to the party that's in the White House.

So it is a strategy that has to be called out, particularly for your Pennsylvanias, your Californias that have huge mail-in votes.

A lot of these are battleground states.

So we'll have impacts here in North Carolina, but also nationally.

- Do we have a huge mail-in vote population here in North Carolina?

- I think we do, yeah.

- Yes, with COVID, we saw a record number of mail-in votes.

So the goalpost keeps changing.

The more we saw mail-in ballots here in North Carolina, that's when the law started to change.

- And early voting as well.

We're seeing efforts being made even to curtail early voting on Sunday.

Because if you are strapped with time, it's easy to go on the weekend.

And all of this is politically motivated, right?

Reducing the number of votes you get so that, in this case, the party in power, the Republicans, can affect the outcomes of the elections.

And I think it's unfortunate in a democracy.

Because it's about electoral success and engaged voting is why we are in a democracy.

It's our greatest right.

We should expand that right.

- Well, Senator, not too long ago, you came on and we talked about redistricting.

- Yes.

- And the changes that's happened here.

Give us an update as to where we are today.

- Yes.

So we still are waiting on the courts, first nationally, for the Voting Rights Act.

It is hanging on for its life, just by a thread.

We don't have the rights that we previously had a preclearance to say, if you are a state like North Carolina that has had issues of gerrymandering in the past, there were federal protections that were there.

Those federal protections have been tremendously weakened.

Most recently, Congressional District 1, which is a congressional seat in the heart of the Black Belt.

This is a seat that Eva Clayton, the first black woman to serve North Carolina in Congress in 1992, was elected to that seat.

Now Congressman Don Davis is in that seat.

When they redrew that district, this is far Eastern North Carolina, they reduced the voting population for black voters by 10%.

And before they did the redraw, this was a competitive seat.

Congressman Don Davis won the seat, but Donald Trump also won the seat.

So it was already a competitive seat, but they want to rig the maps to ensure that Republicans can get another vote.

When the Supreme Court was more balanced in North Carolina, and we had a 7-7 congressional split, seven Democrats, seven Republicans, as soon as conservatives picked up more seats on the state Supreme Court, we'd immediately lost three congressional seats.

Now we're going to lose another seat for an 11-3 split, 11 Republicans, three Democrats.

So fair maps right now are completely out of the door for North Carolina at this current time.

- What do you want to add, Steve?

- I mean, gerrymandering is one of the worst things going on in our democracy today.

I mean, you know, at the end of the day, the citizens of our country and our state, our residents, should be deciding who votes for them, not politicians in a room drawing maps.

And so with Congressman Davis, they came in, they drew a much harder seat for him to win.

Former Congressman Nichols, who's now running for Wake County DA, was in Congress, won a fair election and a tough seat, but they drew him out because they were afraid he was going to win again.

And so I think this is the problem of our political process, because, you know, this is being used as a political tool to gain majorities in the Congress, in the Senate, in the legislature, and then hindering our ability for officials in the legislature to talk to each other.

Because when you're gerrymandered in a safe seat, you have no reason to go work with the other side to compromise.

- Well, let's talk about budget.

All of this is happening.

There's a lot happening, but one thing that's not happening is coming together on a state budget.

We are at an impasse, Steve, and then I'll come to you, Nellie.

What is this impasse?

What's happening?

- Well, the budget today, just, you know, in my observations, is really used as a political leverage tool, right?

That's, and the budget should be about providing services to the residents you serve.

By not having a budget, we're the only state in the union right now with no budget.

We hurt our schools, less money coming into our pay our teachers, our kids in schools that don't have air conditioners during the summer, state workers, right?

Teacher pay, I mean, all these things, infrastructure for local governments, and county governments, Medicaid, $319 million shortfall.

But why are we not passing a budget?

Because Senator Berger and the other speaker, all, the issue's about tax cuts, right?

And, you know, critics, even some Republicans of her colleagues are saying that, you know, we have budget shortfalls as is.

So I think that this is the issue.

I think we've got to get back to a place where we can make the budget about compromise and doing what's best for all North Carolinians.

And so, but this continues to happen.

And when's the last budget we passed?

- 2023.

So budgets are moral documents.

And for us to not have a budget, we are the only state in the nation to not have one.

And I'm glad you asked, 2023, look at how much cheaper our groceries were in 2023.

- I can't remember to be honest.

- So just with a cost of living increase alone for our teachers, law enforcement, state employees to not get raises for folks to say, oh, it's fine.

We just have a continuation budget.

No, we do not.

So those pay raises are a big one.

Everyone is feeling the pinch of inflation, insurance, everything is going up.

So that is a huge issue.

Medicaid is a big bone of contention for this budget.

We still do have a shortfall with just covering basic Medicaid needs.

And it has to be addressed to say that we're going to sit back until April before we get a budget to leave our counties hanging, our teachers, cities and counties have to act.

They don't have the option of not having a budget.

So it really is insane that we don't have a budget at this time.

- Have you been hearing outcries from folks?

What are people saying?

- Particularly in the health community because they were facing three to 10% cuts.

If you were funded by Medicaid and it was a result of the secretary knowing the funding was going to run out, even though that decision was reversed, there is a time where the money simply won't be there.

It is a legislature's job to appropriate funds for basic needs and Medicaid is one of them.

We have, I believe, 3 million people on Medicaid here in North Carolina.

So you can't, it also will destabilize our healthcare system if we don't fully fund Medicaid and get a budget.

- Steve, I know you have a lot of connections in the entrepreneurship community and business community.

Are business owners being impacted by this as well?

- Yeah, I mean, the cost gets shifted, right?

I mean, we look at, I think they extended the Obamacare subsidies, but if they do expire, 25% of North Carolinians are not gonna have health insurance.

So these shortfalls in Medicaid are gonna affect healthcare costs, right?

I mean, it's gonna affect physicians, doctors, small businesses where their healthcare costs are gonna continue to rise.

And so, and it affects our economy.

People wanna come to a state where we have a budget, where we're doing everything we can to help all the citizens we serve.

And if we don't have strong schools, many businesses aren't gonna come here.

So it affects our business community.

And one thing I forgot to mention is Independent Redistricting Commission.

I mean, other states have these commissions where we would have draft maps done, work fair, and have free and fair elections so that we're not held hostage by one party or the other for political expediency.

So-- - Is there anything voters can do?

I mean, we're at a stalemate.

What can voters do?

- Yeah, more than anything, it does not have to be partisan.

No matter who is in power, there should be a check on that power from the congressional level to the state legislative level.

What we have found is when only one party is in control, things are not getting done.

We have a governor that is one party, but in the House and the Senate, it is conservatives that are running the show.

So when you don't have enough numbers, you can't negotiate.

You don't have that seat at the table.

When we were able to get $15 an hour for our school bus drivers, our cafeteria workers across all public schools in the state of North Carolina, it is because we had a seat at the table and we were able to negotiate.

When we are unable to negotiate, you see a lot of that ability to compromise fall apart, to have people to say, "Well, we will come in and give you this "if in return you do this."

And when there is none of that is happening and you're also missing out on hearing the voices of North Carolinians that are really feeling the impact of these cuts.

I think we have far too many people in power that don't have to worry about how to pay their bills or how they're gonna have their healthcare.

They are comfortable.

So they're allowing other folks to suffer because they are not personally impacted.

So the outcries have to become so loud that it can't be ignored.

- Yeah.

Steve, I know you mentioned earlier that the issue is tax cuts, but what specifically, what is the argument?

What is the holdup?

- I mean, the holdup is, you know, the Republicans, their argument is, let's continue to lower the income tax rate, right?

And, you know, get it down as low as we can.

But it's the wrong time to do that because, you know, we have all these demands that we, you know, we have 319 million shortfall on Medicaid.

We've got, you know, millions of North Carolinians without health insurance.

Teachers that are, you know, in North Carolina, the average teacher pay is 41,000.

I could be a teacher and go to Virginia near Roanoke and make about 51,000.

So I think, you know, that's the issue at hand here is that we've gotta make sure that we're getting ourselves to a place where we're passing these budgets, but the income tax, it's the wrong time to cut taxes, right?

Because you're already having budget deficits.

So that's the answer to your question.

So I understand that low taxes are good.

None of us want to pay higher taxes, property tax level.

Companies want to pay less taxes.

But when you reduce your revenue streams, you know what that means?

Delayed DOT projects, right?

- Yeah.

- Even in Morrisville.

- That trickle down effect.

- Yeah, Wake County.

I mean, you know, projects being delayed.

- Yeah.

- Roads not being built, infrastructure going down.

In the eighth largest state in the country, in a couple of years, will be 12 million people.

- Right.

- And we're growing, even in Wake County, 60 people a day coming in.

- Yeah.

- But the money isn't there to do the thing.

So this is not the right time to reduce the revenue stream.

- Well, and unfortunately, with primaries right around the corner, there likely isn't going to be a decision made before then.

- No.

- And so we probably won't see a state budget-- - April.

- We pass till April.

- I think it'll be April.

- April, May.

- And we can balance this.

We can have targeted tax cuts that keep money in the pockets of people who need it the most, especially working people.

And even with our corporations, when we had a 2.5% corporate income tax, that was a competitive tax rate, the lowest in the Southeast.

To zero it out is ridiculous.

They can afford it to tell Google and Apple that they don't need to pay taxes, but you want to have property tax increases, sales tax, personal income tax on working people, middle-class people, but to tell corporations you don't need to pay any taxes at all.

- Yeah.

- So there's a way that we can balance this and still grow the state and have the revenue we need to provide basic functions, such as public education, transportation, and having clean air and water.

- So another issue that our North Carolinians are being impacted with potentially is changes to SNAP benefits.

- Yes.

- What's happening there?

What are those changes that are being proposed?

- Yeah, the timing of these changes, so more work requirements for Medicaid and people hear work requirements and think accountability.

We have been here before.

We have seen other states that are so burdened with work requirements, it is more expensive to administer the work requirements than actually just allowing people to eat.

And at this specific time, where unemployment for Black America is rising, I believe we're over 7%.

And in North Carolina, we have over 1 million people that receive SNAP benefits.

Federally, with the big bill, there was a 20% cut to food stamps.

So where their goal with this is with more requirements, fewer people will be eligible.

There is a strategy.

When you cut federal programs, they have to figure out a way to reduce the pool of people that are gonna be getting this funding.

But the timing of it, just last year, we're weeks away from Thanksgiving, and we didn't even know what people were gonna be getting SNAP benefits because of the budget shutdown.

And it was unprecedented.

There is language that allows a contingency fund to allow SNAP benefits to continue to flow.

So I was working with local churches and food banks.

Folks all over the state were doing the same to feed people.

So just the uncertainty that these families are feeling when they're losing their jobs as the unemployment rate is creeping back up and inflation, this is not the time to change these requirements.

And it's cruel and inhumane.

These are working people that go to work every day and simply need additional funds to feed their families.

- Well, Steve, how do we see food insecurity intersect with everyday life, education, healthcare, all of that?

- Yeah, well, great points in everything you mentioned.

All the numbers were correct and on point.

But I think that a child cannot begin a day in school without a nutritious meal.

And it's been proven that if they're hungry, their quality of education is gonna go down.

They could end up having behavioral disorders, mental disorders.

And this is a problem that's overlooked and needs to be talked about more by all public officials, legislators, local officials.

So there is a connection with food insecurity and the quality of our education.

And at a time when we're cutting education, we're cutting funding for schools, cutting funding for teachers, cutting funding for classrooms that they're learning in.

And so while we're doing that, we're also cutting their nutrition, their food.

And imagine we get hungry as adults if we don't have breakfast in the morning.

Imagine if you're a young kid and you have no food and you're going to school.

How can you even think?

How can you take a test?

And it's snowball.

- What does the impact look like across North Carolina as far as our food insecurity?

- Well, with SNAP alone, when we were looking at those cuts, it would have fallen on the counties.

And you're seeing this theme of counties and cities having to take on the bulk of the inaction of the federal government.

In Durham alone, for the month of November, and they were prepared to do this, they would have had to put $6 million on the street to cover SNAP for one month.

- One month.

- For one month.

And that's just Durham, let alone Wake County, Mecklenburg County.

And it's not the job of the county.

That is a federal program that should be administered.

As Steve pointed out, a hungry child cannot learn.

And these are issues we should not be debating.

We should be focused on how to make people's lives better, not trying to poke holes in their ability to get the resources that they need to survive.

- I want you to add what you want to add, but I want you to take this into consideration as well.

- Sure.

- Do we see people who are being impacted by this showing up to the polls?

Are they able to advocate for themselves?

But what can other people do for them?

- Well, they need to show up to the polls.

- Right.

- But I think it can be very-- - They need to, but are they?

- Well, I think that they will.

We had a high turnout in the municipal election last year.

I think we're going to have a higher turnout in the primary.

- Absolutely.

- But sometimes people can get, they can lose faith and trust when these decisions are being made.

And they're making less money, they're not able to go to work.

Then they go, "Well, forget it.

I'm not going to vote."

The one thing that I'll say is that, in addition to some of the things she said, just some of the SNAP changes, reducing the age from six, taking it from 54 to 65 for adults, reducing exemptions for veterans, making it, reducing the age from, I think, increasing 14 to 18 for children.

These are all things that are increasing the cost for counties.

And even in Wake County, they're asking for $700 million in the operating budget for schools.

- Mm-hmm.

- And that's just to fund schools.

It's really tough.

It's really, really tough for counties and local governments.

- Yeah.

- Mm-hmm.

And the people have the power.

And it's sad.

I do think they will be in such pain.

It is going to drive more people to the polls.

I wish it did not take that.

That's why we wanted people to vote in the last election.

But I think that people are going to feel so much pain that it will motivate them to vote and hire numbers.

But it's also our job to connect the dots to show how these policies are impacting them each and every day.

SNAP benefits, having it be more difficult to vote, those are issues that people feel in their pockets.

- Is there anything that could be done nationally to override what's happening to us locally?

Or is there any anticipation of that?

- With SNAP, I don't think so.

We, as a state, provided kind of our version of work requirements last year.

And the goal of that was for the federal government to not be so heavy-handed to say, if you're going to make us do this, this is how we want to do it.

But we've already found state staff say, we cannot do this, we need more time.

We've seen this administration make a lot of changes very quickly.

And it's what you call an unfunded mandate.

You can't just change the rules and think staff can figure it out in a week or two and not be provided with the funding to have more staff to deal with all these requirements that aren't really needed.

We have a system that works.

We just need to fund it and write the check.

- Steve, what can voters look to as positive points as they head into the primaries in March?

- Well, I think, know what you want when you go to vote.

I mean, I think what we need is we need, we need to elect politicians that value education, public education.

We need to make sure that we pass a budget.

We need to make sure that we're investing in our infrastructure, that we're lowering healthcare costs.

And all of these things add to economic growth.

An opportunity for all of us.

So your vote matters and, you know, get out there, take the time.

The early voting starts on February 12th for these primaries.

March 3rd is the primary, but our futures are at stake in North Carolina.

- Yeah, Natalie, what are some things that people should be paying attention to?

- They need to look at their children.

They don't have access to public education the way that they should.

Education should be the great equalizer and provide greater opportunity.

It is harder and harder to do that.

Unemployment rates are going up.

In the midst of all this automation, we should be figuring out ways to prepare people for the jobs of tomorrow.

We can't do that.

We want to make it harder for them to put food on their table.

People need to really pay attention to elections and voting.

If voting didn't matter, they wouldn't make it more difficult for you to vote.

And they're counting on the cake being baked of people that simply aren't going to come in addition to rigging the maps to stay in power.

- About a minute.

And so we have time for this.

Real IDs, voter IDs, we still have a little time for people to prepare and not be surprised that they don't have this and that they need it.

What do people need to make sure that they have when they go to the polls?

Steve, if you want to chime in.

- I think you have to have a voter ID now, some form of identification.

So go to the board of election site to check that out.

And I think that's what you need.

You need to have an ID.

That is the law.

I don't agree with it, but that's the law.

And I'm going to hand it over to her, but I'll end with affordability is the big issue that everyone needs to think about.

- You hit that.

And then jobs.

AI is obsoleting a lot of jobs.

It's so critical that we value education and train people for the jobs in the economy.

- About a minute.

Voter registration status.

- Yes.

Yeah, check your status.

You can go online to the state board of elections to make sure your voter ID not only is up to date, are you registered to vote in the right place?

Are you still active?

There are ways to make sure that you still are an active voter.

The local board of elections can help you do that.

You do need an ID.

You have plenty of time.

You have the March primaries.

And then in November to make sure you have valid ID so that your voice can count and still can register to vote and vote on the same day.

They haven't gotten rid of that yet.

- Senator Murdock, Steve Rao, thank you so much.

- Have a great weekend.

It was great to be here today.

- And I thank you for watching.

If you want more content like this, we invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the hashtag Black Issues Forum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum and on the PBS video app.

I'm Kenia Thompson.

I'll see you next time.

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