♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ MANTID WELCOME TO BASIC BLACK.

SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR BROADCAST AND OTHERS OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS.

I'M PHILLIP MARTIN, SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, GBH NEWS CENTER FOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING.

TONIGHT: VOTING RIGHTS: MAKING EVERY VOTE COUNT.

WE, LIKE YOU, ARE DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS OF THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC AND ARE TAKING PRECAUTIONS.

WE ARE WORKING WITH LIMITED STAFF AND OUR GUESTS ARE JOINING US REMOTELY IN HIS EULOGY FOR THE LATE CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER, REPRESENTATIVE JOHN LEWIS, FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA SAID, "ALL VOTERS HAVE THE POWER TO CHOOSE THEIR POLITICIANS, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND."

CLEARLY, WE ARE SEEING THOSE IN POWER SHOW A BLATANT DISREGARD FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS TO MAKE EVERY VOTE COUNT.

MAKE EVERY VOTE COUNT.

NEXT DOOR IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, LEGISLATORS ARE TRYING TO PUSH GEORGIA-LIKE VOTER SUPPRESSION LAWS INSPIRED BY TRUMP'S BIG LIE.

CONGRESS HAS YET TO PASS THE JOHN LEWIS VOTING RIGHTS BILL, BUT WHEN THE RIGHT TO VOTE IS SUPPRESSED, INVALIDATED, OR TAKEN AWAY-- WHAT HAPPENS THEN?

HAS IT AFFECTED VOTERS' TRUST AND FAITH IN OUR DEMOCRACY?

DO WE FEEL THAT OUR VOTE COUNTS?

JOINING US REMOTELY: RENEÉE GRAHAM, ASSOCIATE EDITOR AND OPINION COLUMNIST FOR THE "BOSTON GLOBE'S" OP-ED PAGE; IVAÁN ESPINOZA-MADRIGAL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FOR LAWYERS FOR CIVIL RIGHTS, BOSTON; LATOSHA BROWN, CO-FOUNDER OF THE BLACK VOTERS MATTER FUND; AND CHERYL CLYBURN CRAWFORD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF MASSVOTE.

WELCOME TO YOU ALL.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Martin: LOOK, THIS IS -- I WAS TALKING, LATOSHA, TO A FRIEND IN VALDOSTA, GEORGIA AND IN THE VERY BOWELS IF YOU WILL, OF GEORGIA.

AND SHE WAS EXPRESSING EXTRAORDINARY FRUSTRATION WITH THE WAY SHE HAS THE VOTE IN THE COMING MID TERMS.

SHE'S EAGER TO VOTE BUT SHE FEELS THAT HER VOTE NOT ONLY WON'T COUNT BUT THAT, IF IT COUNTS, IT WILL BE COUNTED BY SOMEONE APPOINTED BY REPUBLICAN LEGISLATOR WHO, AND LEGISLATURE, RATHER, WHO HAS BEEN INSPIRED BY TRUMP'S BIG LIE.

SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN INSPIRED BY THE NOTION THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING, WHAT ARE YOU FEELING AND WHAT ARE YOU DOING RIGHT NOW TO ASSUAGE HER FEELINGS, HER CONCERNS, HER FEARS AND THOSE OF OTHERS?

>> WELL, LET ME SAY, THE FIRST THING IS THAT TO AFFIRM WHAT SHE'S FEELING IS WHAT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ARE FEELING.

THAT MILLIONS OF FOLKS I WOULD SAY ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY ARE ON SOME LEVEL FEELING SOME SENSE OF FRUSTRATION.

AND THAT WHILE AFRICAN AMERICAN VOTERS WERE TARGETED, THEY'RE NOT THE ONLY ONES THAT ARE GOING TO BE IMPACTED BY THIS.

WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT VOTERS PARTICULARLY DEMOCRATIC LEANING, THOSE VOTERS THAT ARE CONSIDERED TO BE DEMOCRATIC LEANING VOTERS, WHEN YOU LOOK AT WORKING CLASS VOTERS, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LATINO VOTE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT AAPI COMMUNITY, THOSE OF US IN THE STATE OF GEORGIA WE RECOGNIZE THAT WE'RE LITERALLY BEING PUSHED FOR PARTICIPATING, WE HAVE THE LARGEST HISTORIC TURNOUT IN THE STATE AND WHEN YOU SEE THE GROWTH, 100% OF THE GROWTH ACCORDING TO THE CENSUS HAS BEEN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR.

WE FEEL LIKE WE'VE BEEN ATTACKED, OUR RIGHTS ARE BEING VIOLATED.

WE HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE.

AS WE SEE JUST A COUPLE OF DAYS IN FOR BLACK HISTORY MONTH WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE IT'S BEEN OUR RESILIENCE AND OUR RESISTANCE THAT HAS LED US TO EVERYTHING WE HAVE RECEIVED IN THIS COUNTRY POLICY WISE HAS RESULTED FROM THAT.

SO EVEN FOR YOUR FREE-IN I UNDERSTAND, AS WE ARE WORKING, I AFFIRM HER FRUSTRATION BECAUSE AS I TO AS A BLACK WOMB IN GEORGIA FEEL THAT SENSE OF FRUSTRATION.

SECONDLY, THAT IS ALSO IMPORTANT THAT WE TURN THAT FRUSTRATION INTO LITERALLY REDIRECTING OUR POWER.

ENGAGING IN A CUSTOM OF OTHER THINGS, ONE, WE DO MORE THAN VOTE, AT THE END OF THE DAY PART OF THE CHALLENGE IS THAT WE HAVE HAD THIS LASSEZ-FAIRE FORM OF VOTING.

LET THE LEADERS FIGURE OUT AND NEXT FOUR YEARS WE'LL COME BACK.

WE'RE TELLING THE PEOPLE IF DEMOCRACY IS TO TAKE PLACE, DEMOCRACY IS GOING TO TAKE ROAD, REAL TRUE DEMOCRACY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE DEMOCRACY IN THIS COUNTRY.

THERE ARE ELEMENTS OF DEMOCRACY THAT EXIST BUT WE'VE GOT TO MAKE IT WORK.

>> Martin: WHAT YOU'RE SAYING LATOSHA REGARDLESS OF THE CLEAR SUPPRESSION THAT'S TAKEN PLACE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO GET OUT THERE AND BASICALLY MOUNT AND OFFENSIVE AGAINST IT.

RENEE, ARE YOU FEELING -- CAN YOU SUMMARIZE WE KNOW THAT GEORGIA IS GROUND ZERO FOR VOTING IMPRESSION.

AND THERE'S NO OTHER WAY OF DESCRIBING IT BY THE WAY.

I DON'T WANT TO, YOU KNOW, SUGAR COAT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS SPHRETION.

IN TERMS -- SUPPRESSION IN TERMS OF HOW IT'S MANIFESTING HOW IT'S DIRECTED AT.

GEORGIA'S GROUND ZERO BUT WE'RE SEEING THIS ELSEWHERE AS WELL.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH, THE SCALE OF LAWS IF YOU WILL, AND IF NOT, AND OF OFFENSES, THAT ARE BASICALLY BEING DIRECTED AT LARGELY BLACK AND BROWN VOTERS, BUT ALSO, LIBERAL PROGRESSIVE VOTERS, LGBTQ VOTERS, SO ON, SO FORTH.

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK PHILIP, IS THERE'S NO QUESTION GEORGIA IS GROUND ZERO.

BUT WE MAKE A MISTAKE IF WE ONLY PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT'S HAPPENING IN GEORGIA BECAUSE IT'S HAPPENING IN TEXAS AND IT'S HAPPENING IN FLORIDA AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE, IT'S HAPPENING IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.

WHICH THE LAST TIME I CHECKED WAS WAY ABOVE THE MASON-DIXON LINE AND ENACTING SOME OF THE SAME BILLS AND LAWS THAT WE ARE SEEING IN THE OTHER STATES.

THIS IS NOT A REGIONAL PROBLEM, THIS IS A NATIONALITY PROBLEM.

I THINK THE MOST SORT OF TOXIC THING THAT HAS HAPPENED WITHIN THIS DISCUSSION IS SOMEHOW THE RIGHT TO VOTE BECAME PARTISAN.

DEMOCRACY IS NOT PART DAB AND SO WE'VE MADE THIS IDEA THAT SOMEHOW THESE ARE LAWS THAT WE NEED TO HAVE.

BUT THAT THEY'RE ONLY IMPACTING CERTAIN AMERICANS, THAT'S TURNED THIS INTO A PART DISAFN FIGHT AND THAT CAN'T WORK.

WHAT'S AT STAKE IS DEMOCRACY.

WHAT I CONSTANTLY THINK ABOUT IS, WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT DEMOCRACY, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CITIZENSHIP AND WHO GETS TO ACCESS THAT DEMOCRACY.

AND I THINK, I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS A LOT IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS GIVEN ALL THAT'S BEEN GOING ON.

I'VE BEEN SORT OF READING AGAIN WHAT HAPPENED IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE CIVIL WAR AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE CIVIL WAR IS THE ASSASSINATION OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

WHAT SET BOOTH OFF WAS NOT THE LOSS OF CONFEDERACY, WHAT LINCOLN WAS SAYING WAS GIVING GIVING CERTAIN BLACK MEN THE RIGHT TO VOTE, AND BOOTH KNEW THAT MEANT CITIZENSHIP.

WE'RE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT VOTING RIGHTS BUT CITIZENSHIP.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT STATE YOU'RE IN, EVERYONE SHOULD BE VIEWING THIS AS AN ATTACK ON DEMOCRACY.

IF WE DON'T HAVE DEMOCRACY THEN WE REALLY DON'T HAVE AN AMERICA ANYMORE.

>> Martin: AND IT'S SO WELL PUT, IF WE DON'T HAVE A DEMOCRACY WE DON'T HAVE AMERICA.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE OF COURSE DO FEEL THAT WE ARE SLIDING TOWARDS SOMETHING UNFAMILIAR IN OUR LIFE SOMETIMES, SOMETHING THAT FOLKS HAVE -- LIFETIMES, SOMETHING PEOPLE HAVE VARIOUSLY DESCRIBED AS AUTOCRACY.

IN TERMS OF THE LAW, IVAN, WHAT RECOURSE IS THERE?

YOU HAVE COURTS THAT ARE PACKED RIGHT NOW WITH INDIVIDUALS WHO BASICALLY SIDE WITH MANY OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE TRYING TO CHANGE, AND TRYING TO SUPPRESS THE VOTE AND SO ON, SO FORTH.

AND IT'S NOT OF COURSE AS RENEE POINTED OUT AROUND THE COUNTRY.

IT IS RIGHT HERE AT SOME FIELD THAT THERE ARE SOME PROBLEMS IN THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS AND CHERYL WE'LL GET TO YOU TO TALK ABOUT THAT.

BUT IVAN, IN TERMS OF THE LAW, WE SAW THE INVALIDATION OF SECTION 5 OF THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT, IN 2013, SHELBY V. HOLDER.

WHERE ARE WE IN TERMS OF WHAT WE CAN DO IN ORDER TO TRY TO PREVENT FURTHER EROSION?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY PHILLIP.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AN EROSION THAT STARTS WITH THE SUPREME COURT'S DECISION IN SHELBY COUNTY VERSUS HOLDER IN 2013.

AND THE IMPACT OF THAT CASE IS PROFOUND.

WITHIN THE NEXT FEW YEARS, WE SEE MORE THAN 800 POLLING SITE CLOSURES IN STATES THAT USED TO BE COVERED UNDER THE PROTECTIONS, THAT WERE GUTTED BY THE SUPREME COURT IN SHELBY COUNTY.

AND SO THIS -- >> Martin: JUST TO GO BACK FOR JUST A SECOND, IVAN, SHELBY COUNTY IF YOU DON'T MIND JUST EXPLAINING THAT JUST BRIEFLY.

THAT WAS ABOUT PRECLEARANCE WE KNOW.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ISSUE AT SHELBY COUNTY WAS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S ABILITY TO REVIEW OR WHAT'S TECHNICALLY CALLED PRE-CLEAR CHANGES IN VOTING PROCEDURES, IN VOTING PROCESSES, IN JURISDICTIONS THAT USED TO HAVE A HISTORY OF HAVING A POLLING TEST.

OF EXCLUDING BLACK PEOPLE ON THE POLLING SITES, RIGHT?

IF YOU HAD A HISTORY OF LET'S CALL IT WHAT IT IS, OF RACISM AND OF EXCLUSION OF PEOPLE OF COLOR FROM THE VOTING SITES, THOSE JURISDICTIONS WERE COVERED UNDER THE FEDERAL VOTING RIGHTS ACT UNDER A SPECIFIC SECTION CALLED SECTION 5.

AND ANY VOTING CHANGES IN THOSE JURISDICTIONS HAD TO BE RUN UP TO THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FOR REVIEW OR PRECLEARANCE.

THIS WAS CHALLENGED BY THIS CASE, SHELBY COUNTY VERSUS HOLDER IN 2013 AND THE SUPREME COURT VOTED IN FAVOR OF ESSENTIALLY ALLOWING THESE JURISDICTIONS THAT WERE PAST SITES OF DISCRIMINATION, VIOLENCE AND REALLY OF UNDEMOCRATIC PRACTICES ALLOWS THEM TO JUST GO ON THEIR OWN.

AND WE SEE IMMEDIATELY THE CLOSURE OF MANY POLLING SITES, ESPECIALLY IN THE SOUTH BUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

AS MY COLLEAGUES HAVE BEEN SAYING, THIS IS A NATIONAL PHENOMENON.

AND SO WHAT'S PROBLEMATIC HERE IS THAT THE SUPREME COURT HAS ALSO GUTTED THE INSTRUMENTS THAT WOULD ALLOW LAWYERS, LIKE ME, LIKE LAWYERS FOR CIVIL RIGHTS, TO GO OUT AND DO THE VOTING RIGHTS PROTECTION WORK.

BUT OBVIOUSLY, THAT WAS JUST ONE PROVISION OF THE FEDERAL VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

OTHERS EXIST.

AND LAWYERS FOR CIVIL RIGHTS WE HAVE BEEN FINDING VOTING RIGHTS CASES UNDER THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT OF 1965 WITH PROVISIONS THAT REMAIN ON THE BOOKS, BUT I'LL BE TRANSPARENT.

IT MAKES IT MUCH HARDER BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO HAVE DIRECT EVIDENCE.

>> Martin: EEIVAN EVEN IN MASSACHUSETTS YOU FILED COURT SUITS, BASICALLY SEEKING REDRESS FOR VOTERS HERE AS WELL.

TALK ABOUT THAT JUST FOR ABIT, THEN I WANT TO TRANSICS TO CHERYL TO ELABORATE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE HAVE FILED A SERIES OF HIGH FRO FILE VOTING RIGHTS CASES WHERE WE ACTUALLY HAVE EVIDENCE OF DISCRIMINATION, EVIDENCE OF EXCLUSION.

WE HAVE FILED LAWSUITS AGAINST THE CITY OF LOWELL AGAINST THE CITY OF WORCHESTER, AND WE HAVE ALSO DONE SIMILAR WORK IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS.

RIGHT NOW WE ARE DOING THE WORK IN HAVERILL.

THIS WORK IS CRITICAL TO MAKE SURE WE ARE IMPLEMENTING THE REMAINING ASPECTS OF THE FEDERAL VOTING RIGHTS ACT EVEN HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS THE TECHNICAL PIECE IS THAT IT'S RESOURCE INTENSIVE.

YOU NEED SIGNIFICANT DATA ON THAT LEVEL OF DISCRIMINATION AND EXCLUSION, THINGS THAT UNDER PRECLEARANCE, WHICH MUCH EASIER TO DO, AND SO THIS REALLY PUTS THE BURDEN ON THE COMMUNITY TO REALLY ADVOCATE FOR THEMSELVES INSTEAD OF HAVING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ENFORCE THE LAW.

>> Martin: AND THAT'S HAPPENING WITH CHERYL, YOUR ORGANIZATION, YOU ARE DOING PRECISELY THAT, IN MASSACHUSETTS WHAT JUST HAPPENED OF COURSE IS THE DEMOCRATIC HOUSE HAS PASSED SOME OF -- SOME OF THE LEGISLATION THAT YOU WERE ADVOCATING, BUT BASICALLY, DECIDED NOT TO ALLOW FOR SAME-DAY REGISTRATIONS.

WHAT ARE YOUR CONCERNS, AND REFLECTING WHAT OUR OTHER GUESTS HAVE SAID, WE'RE NOT SEEING THE TYPE OF VOTER SUPPRESSION THAT WE'RE SEEING IN THE SOUTH BUT WHAT ARE YOU SEEING IN MASSACHUSETTS THAT IS OF CONCERN TO YOU THAT YOU FEEL IS IMPEDING THE TYPE OF THING THAT WE TALKED ABOUT THE TOP OF THE SHOW, THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS FROM PROCEEDING UNSUPPRESSED?

>>> YES, ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

MASSACHUSETTS IS NOT LIKE TEXAS OR GEORGIA BUT WE DO HAVE ISSUES THAT KEEP ARISING.

AS YOU MENTIONED WE PASSED A VOTES ACT BILL LAST WEEK WITHOUT A VERY CRITICAL PIECE.

IT HAD SOME GREAT PIECES IN IT, LIKE EARLY VOTING, MAIL IN BROOTS, MOVING OUT VOTER REGISTRATIONS FROM 20 DAYS TO TEN DAYS AS WELL AS JAIL BASED VOTING.

THOSE ARE WONDERFUL NEW MEASURES THAT WE'RE GOING TO ADD, RIGHT?

BUT IT LEFT OUT SAME-DAY REGISTRATIONS.

WE LIKE TO THINK THAT WE ARE ON THE CUTTING EDGE.

WE ABSOLUTELY ARE NOT.

20 OTHER STATES ALREADY HAVE SAME DAY REGISTRATIONS AND WASHINGTON, D.C.

IT'S WORKING.

WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT TWO THIRDS OF THE RESIDENTS IN MASSACHUSETTS ARE REALLY FOR SAME-DAY REGISTRATIONS.

WE ALSO KNOW THAT WHERE SAME-DAY REGISTRATIONS HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED, IT BOLSTERS VOTER ENGAGEMENT UPWARDS OF 17%, IN THE BLACK AND LATINO COMMUNITIES.

PARTICULARLY AROUND HOUSING, THE HOUSING CRISIS THAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING AND WHY PEOPLE MOVE SO OFTEN AND HAVE TO CHANGE THEIR VOTER REGISTRATIONS, DOESN'T FOLLOW THEM, WE NEED SAME DAY REGISTRATIONS.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE VERY, VERY DISAPPOINTED AND EVERYBODY SHOULD BE DISAPPOINTED, THAT REALLY STANDS FOR FREEDOM JUSTICE AND EQUALITY, RIGHT?

LIKE WE HAD POLITICAL MANEUVERINGS THAT TOOK PLACE IN THE STATE HOUSE.

IT MAY LOOK DIFFERENT FROM GEORGIA BUT IT'S THE SAME RESULT.

BECAUSE BASICALLY IT'S DENYING THE ADVANCEMENT OF VOTING RIGHTS HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS.

>> Martin: THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO VOTE.

WOULD YOU THINK THAT WITH ALL THAT'S GONE ON, THE EASIER YOU'D MAKE IT TO VOTE THE BETTER.

WE SAW THAT IN THE 2020 ELECTION WHEN YOU HAD ANDEE VOTING -- ABSENTEE VOTING, VOTING BY SAME DAY REGISTRATIONS IN SOME CASES, YOU WERE ABLE TO REGISTER IN PARKING LOTS AND SO ON, SO FORTH, DRIVE THROUGH VOTING, IT MADE IT EASIER TO VOTE BUT IT ALSO MADE PEOPLE RESPOND IN A WAY THAT WAS NEFARIOUS.

AND LATOSHA, GOING BACK TO GEORGIA, YOU JUST HEARD ABOUT SOME OF OUR OTHER GUESTS ABOUT SOME THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING AROUND THE CURRENT RIGHT HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS IN NEXT DOOR NEW HAMPSHIRE.

GEORGIA ALL EYES ARE STILL ON GEORGIA.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE WAYS IN WHICH VOTERS ARE BEING DENIED ACCESS, INCLUDING -- AND BUT IT GOES BEYOND THAT?

OF COURSE.

YOU'RE AT A POINT NOW WHERE AFTER THE PEOPLE MIGHT GO TO THE FOLLOWS AND TRY TO VOTE BUT THEN IT'S UP NOW, IT'S UP TO REPUBLICAN LEGISLATORS TO SELECT THOSE WHO ARE GOING TO COUNT THE VOTE.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE MECHANISMS THAT BECAME OF ARE IN -- BASICALLY IN PLACE AND WHAT YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT?

IF THESE THINGS ARE ALREADY HAPPENING, IF THE COURTS AREN'T GOING TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT WHAT RESORT IS THERE AT THIS POINT FOR THOSE VOTERS?

>> YOU KNOW I CAN SHARE -- I'M GOING TO SHARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE HANG IN GEORGIA BUT I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO GEORGIA BECAUSE GEORGIA IS INSTRUCTIVE TO HOW THIS IS HAPPENING IN WAYS ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THERE IS A SPECTRUM OF VOTER SUPPRESSION.

I OFTEN SAY THERE ARE THREE CORE STRATEGIES THAT HAVE LITERALLY BEEN USED TO SUPPRESS THE VOTE IN THIS NATION, THEY ALWAYS FALL INTO ONE OF THESE THREE STRATEGIES.

THERE IS ALWAYS THE STRATEGY AROUND RESTRICTING ACCESS TO THE BALLOT.

WHETHER THAT IS A POLL TAX, WHETHER THAT IS MAKING ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS, OR CREDENTIALING, IT IS ALWAYS A PROBLEM AROUND CREATING THERE'S A STRATEGY OF MAKING ACCESS, BASIC ACCESS TO THE BALLOT MORE DIFFICULT FOR COMMUNITIES.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE NATIVE AMERICAN COMMUNITY IN ARIZONA AND THE RESTRICTION THAT YOU CAN'T USE A POST OFFICE BOX WHEN IF YOU LIVE ON A RESERVATION THAT IS WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN USING AS YOUR MAILING ADDRESS.

SO THE SECOND STRATEGY HAS ALWAYS BEEN AROUND CREATING TIS CULTURE OF FEAR.

HOW DO YOU CREATE THIS CULTURE OF FEAR THAT PEOPLE WILL BE AFRAID TO VOTE?

WHAT WE KNOW IS IF YOU GO BACK TO RECONSTRUCTION, AFTER RECONSTRUCTION THERE WERE 300 AFRICAN AMERICANS ELECTED IN THE STATE OF MMS, WITHIN 100 DAYS 100 EVER THOSE PEOPLE WERE MURDERED.

THERE WAS ALWAYS SOME MECHANISM TO ACTUALLY HAVE PEOPLE BE FEARFUL.

AND THE THIRD PIECE IS WEAPONIZING THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS.

CREATINGSOMETHING THAT SEEMS LIKE HARMLESS ON THE SURFACE BUT CREATES AN ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS.

WE FIND ALL THOSE LIMITS IN SB 202, THE BILL THAT WAS PASSED IN GEORGIA IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE ELECTION LAST YEAR.

AS A VOTER IN GEORGIA I HAVE LESS VOTING RIGHTS THAN I DID BEFORE.

I'M ESSENTIALLY PUNISHED FOR PARTICIPATING IN THE ELECTION.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ACCESS IT'S RESTRICTING, THAT WE'RE SAYING YOU'RE SHORTENING THE TIME YOU CAN VOTE ABSENTEE BALLOT.

THERE IS AN EFFORT TO ACTUALLY ELIMINATE DROP OFF BOXES.

EVEN CLOSING THE APOLOGY SITES, THERE HAS BEEN A FIGHT IN LINCOLN COUNTY TO CLOSE ALL THE POLLING SITES WITH EXCEPTION OF ONE -- >> Martin: AND IT'S A HUGE COUNTY SIT NOT?

>> IT'S A HUGE COUNTY.

HERE YOU'RE LOOKING, BECOMES A TRANSPORTATION BARRIER, ULTIMATELY IT IS RESTRICTING AND MAKING ACCESS DIFFICULT.

>> Martin: I UNDERSTAND IT IS ALMOST -- IT WOULD BE ESSENTIALLY THE EQUIVALENT OF ME TRAVELING FROM HERE TO SPRINGFIELD TO CAST MY VOTE.

THOSE OF US HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS.

AND RENEE, THE PASSION THAT LATOSHA IS EXHIBITING AND THAT WE SEE AROUND THIS ISSUE, ONE THING BECOMES, IF MANCHIN AROUND CINEMA, THE LEGISLATORS WHO HAVE DECIDED, IF THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN AND IT'S NOT, AT THIS POINT, IT'S CLEAR IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, WHAT WOULD YOU SUGGEST VOTERS DO OR ORGANIZATIONS AROUND THE COUNTRY WHO ARE FIGHTING TO MAKE EVERY VOTE COUNT, HOW DO YOU BASICALLY GET PEOPLE TO THE POLLS IN SPITE OF THESE ROADBLOCKS?

>> YOU KNOW, I CONSTANTLY THINK ABOUT THE PEOPLE IN THIS NATION'S HISTORY WHO DIED FOR VOTING RIGHTS.

PEOPLE WERE MURDERED, TRYING TO ENSURE VOTING RIGHTS FOR ALL.

THAT'S ONE THING TO KEEP IN MIND.

I THINK THERE'S ALSO A MECHANISM TO PRESSURE YOUR LEGISLATURES, TO GET STATE LAWS THAT PROTECT EVERYONE'S RIGHT TO VOTE.

YOU KNOW, THE FACT THAT WE EVEN ARE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION, YOU KNOW, IS ABSOLUTELY DISHEARTENING WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHERE THIS COUNTRY HAS BEEN.

BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO REALIZE THAT EVEN WHEN THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT WAS PASSED IN 1965 THERE WAS STILL STATES THAT HAD POLL TAXES.

YOU KNOW, THAT FIGHT HAS NEVER REALLY GONE AWAY.

NOW IT'S JUST RAMPED UP EXPONENTIALLY, BECAUSE OF THE BIG LIE, BECAUSE REPUBLICANS CLEARLY HAVE THE SENSE THAT THEY CAN'T WIN UNLESS THEY CHEAT.

SO YOU END UP WITH THINGS LIKE RON deSANTIS THE GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA TALKING ABOUT HAVING A SPECIAL POLICE FORCE AT POLLING STATIONS.

WE KNOW EXACTLY WHY HE WANTS TO DO THAT AS LATOSHA SAID, YOU WANT TO CREATE HINDRANCES TO ACCESS.

WE CAN'T LEAN ON PEOPLE LIKE LATOSHA, LIKE CHERYL, LIKE IVAN TO DO THIS WORK.

THIS IS ABOUT ALL OF US SO I THINK YOU NEED TO HAVE PRESSURE ON EVERY LEGISLATURE WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MASSACHUSETTS AND NOT HAVING SAME DAY REGISTRATIONS OF THE VOTING YOU NEED TO HAVE MORE PRESSURE ON THEM TO GET THESE THINGS DONE.

BECAUSE AGAIN WE'RE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN ONE STATE AND ONE REGION.

THIS IS IMPACTING ALL OF US.

>> Martin: YOU JUST SAID SOMETHING REALLY KEY THE NOTION OF A POLICE FORCE AND IN OTHER STATES THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT OBSERVERS.

NOT -- I MEAN PARTISAN OBSERVERS IN ELECTION POLLING AREAS.

AND IVAN THAT WOULD SEEM TO BE AT ONE POINT PATENTLY, BLATANTLY ILLEGAL.

HOW CAN THAT EVEN BE A POSSIBILITY?

THE NOTION OF HAVING PARTISAN ELECTION OBSERVERS IN PLACE INTIMIDATING PEOPLE?

>> I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE THIS IS PATENTLY ILLEGAL EVEN TODAY.

AND CHALLENGEABLE UNDER THE FEDERAL VOTING RIGHTS ACT PROVISIONS THAT STILL REMAIN.

BUT YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, PHILLIP.

WHAT WE SEE IS THAT WE DO NOT HAVE NATIONAL MINIMUM STANDARDS FOR WHAT AN ELECTION SHOULD LOOK LIKE.

HOW LONG A LINE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO FORM FOR, UNDER 30 MINUTES?

OVER 30 MINUTES?

CHERYL WAS TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS THE DEADLINE FOR BEING ABLE TO REGISTER FOR VOTING.

WHAT IS THE TIME PERIOD, NUMBER OF DAYS FOR EITHER VOTING.

-- EARLY VOTING.

ALL OF THESE ARE NATIONAL STANDARDS THAT NEED TO BE APPLIED.

BUT WE NEED TO START CREATING THAT WAVE STATE BY STATE, STARTING IN MASSACHUSETTS WITH THE LEGISLATION THAT CHERYL WAS TALKING ABOUT TO START, CREATE BUILDING THAT PRECEDENT LEGISLATIVELY WHERE FOR WHERE WE WANT THE COUNTRY TO BE.

AND I ALSO WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT ONE THING FINANCE INTIMIDATION IS NOT JUST HAPPENING IN STATES FAR FLUNG FROM OUR OWN BACKYARD.

ON ELECTION DAY AT LAWYERS FOR CIVIL RIGHTS WE GOTMENT REPORTS OF -- GOT MANY REPORTS OF VOTER INTIMIDATION IN MASSACHUSETTS.

IN LOWELL THERE WERE PEOPLE COMING OUT TO POLLING SITES, SCREAMING OBSCENITIES AND EPITHETS AT CAMBODIAN CITIZENS WHO WERE LINING UP TO VOTE.

WE NEED TO EXERCISE NOT JUST VOTING RIGHTS PROTECTION BUT ALSO STATE LAWS TO REALLY GO AFTER THOSE BAD ACIALGHTS AND MAKE SURE THAT THE POLLING SITES REMAIN ACCESSIBLE FOR EVERYONE AND SAFE FOR EVERYONE TO BE ABLE TO CAST A MEANINGFUL BALLOT.

AND IF WE NEED TO DO THIS IN COURT WE NEED TO GO TO COURT FOR IT.

BUT I LOVE WHAT MY COLLEAGUES ARE SAYING.

WE NEED TO ACTIVATE, COMMUNITY SUPPORT, IT IS THROUGH COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT MAKING SURE THAT ENOUGH PEOPLE ARE SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THIS, THAT WE CREATE MOVEMENT FOR CHANGE.

>> Martin: AND IVAN THAT IS A NATURAL TRANSITION TO CHERYL.

CHERYL, YOU HAVE THE LAST WORD IN THIS DISCUSSION.

WE HAVE ABOUT TWO MINUTES LEFT IN THE PROGRAM.

WHAT IS EXACTLY HAPPENING ON THE GROUND IN MASSACHUSETTS, TO GUARANTEE THAT WE DON'T SEE THE TYPE OF THING THAT HAPPENED IN LOWELL DIRECTED AT CAMBODIAN VOTERS?

>> I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING WE CAN DO TO GUARANTEE THAT.

BECAUSE WE HAVE A MUCH LARGER PROBLEM.

RIGHT?

WE HAVE ORGANIZERS, GRASS ROOTS ORGANIZATIONS ON THE GROUND DOING ALL OF THE WORK THAT'S NECESSARY TO TURN OUT THE COMMUNITY THE HAVE THEIR VOICES HEARD TO CALL THEIR LEGISLATORS AND TO REALLY REGISTER WITH THEM WHAT WE WANT.

I THINK THE PROBLEM LIES IN WHO WE HAVE IN OFFICE.

TWO THINGS: ONE, WE NEED TO EDUCATE EVERYBODY THAT ONE VOTE, EVERYBODY GETS ONE VOTE.

THAT IS THE ONE PLACE WHERE I FEEL LIKE WE ARE EQUAL.

EVERYBODY GETS ONE SLOAT.

BUT WE -- VOTE.

BUT WE HAVE TO JUST THAT VOTE STRATEGICALLY.

WE HAVE TO LOOK WHO WE HAVE IN OFFICE, WHERE ARE THE BARRIERS, THE BARRIERS ARE NOT JUST THE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND.

WE HAVE TOO MANY PEOPLE WORKING TOO HARD TO TRY TO PASS LEGISLATION.

WE HAVE TWO-THIRDS OF THE CITIZENS ON THE GROUND SAYING WE WANT IT AND WE KNOW THAT THIS INITIATIVE REALLY WORKS IN OUR COMMUNITY.

YET THERE'S POLITICAL MANEUVERINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING, POLITICKING THAT IS HAPPENING, HOW DO WE ADDRESS THAT SITUATION?

ON THE GROUND BY MAKING SURE WE PUT THE RIGHT LEGISLATORS IN PLACE THAT REPRESENT US.

ISN'T THAT THE WAY WE GET THEM ELECTED?

WHEN YOU GO UP THERE I THINK SOME OF THEM FORGET THEY'RE TAKING ON A JOB AS OPPOSED TO YOUR MISSION.

YOUR MISSION IS TO GO UP THERE AND REPRESENT US.

YOU GO UP THERE AS A JOB AND YOU'RE PROTECT THING YOUR JOB.

WE HAVE A BIGGER PROBLEM.

>> Martin: AND YOU IN FACT SUMMARIZED WHAT THE REST OF OUR GUESTS HAVE SAID WHO I WANT TO THANK FIRST OF ALL FOR THIS EXTRAORDINARY CONVERSATION.

IT'S BEEN LIVELY AND IT'S IMPORTANT.

THAT'S THE END OF OUR BROADCAST AND THE END OF OUR SHOW.

AND WE WANT TO THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND NOW STAY WITH US AS WE CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS, FACEBOOK AND YOUTUBE.

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