>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in a joke about the president.

Comedians have been making politicians the targets of their jokes for centuries.

It's a time honored way of taking down the powerful.

A notch or two can also be good fun, of course, but a growing group of comedians say that President Donald Trump has killed comedy, or at least killed the idea of political comedy.

Because Trump is so outlandish, they say so extreme that he can't be parodied.

Well, don't tell that to comedian Paula Poundstone, who never misses the chance to put President Trump in her routines or her podcast interviews or her videos.

Want to listen to one example of that.

>> Beautiful Easter message?

By the way, what did you post?

Tuesday will be Power Plant Day and Bridge Day, all wrapped up in one.

In Iran.

There will be nothing like it.

Open the street, you crazy or you'll be living in hell.

Just watch.

Praise be to Allah.

President Donald J. Trump.

Oh, God is speaking through you for sure.

A lot of people don't know this, but God curses like a sailor.

I mean, in one of his earliest recorded conversations, he said, Eve, what the are you doing?

And he used to engage in some really raunchy animal husbandry humor with Noah.

>> The Eve, the Eve line got me there.

Poundstone has said that the time for cowardice is over.

She's been using her platform to provide really a lot of social commentary, political commentary swirled with acid and of course, humor.

Poundstone is an NPR favorite, a regular on Wait Wait, Don't Tell Me, and she's coming to Rochester on Friday for a show at Hochstein Performance Hall.

But first, she joins us on Connections, and it's good to have Paula Poundstone back on the show.

Thanks for being with us, Paula.

>> Hey, thanks for having me.

>> So when you say the time for cowardice is over, can you tell me more about what you mean by that?

>> You know, there was a time I still I still don't really see myself as a political comic.

I'm not a, you know, I'm not a constitutional expert or anything like that.

Um, but as you say, for a very long time, uh, I've, I've thrown in some, uh, my act is largely autobiographical.

So I talk about what I'm, what I'm thinking about and what I'm doing.

And a lot of times I'm, I'm watching the news and watching what's going on.

And, and, uh, so I'll throw in, you know, a joke here or there about, uh, you know, about politics or about a politician.

And I've certainly done that since, um, um, Reagan, maybe even Jimmy Carter.

I can't remember anymore, but, um, you know, uh, when as we sort of, you know, went further and further down the golden escalator, uh, and, and there were more and more, uh, Trump jokes to, to be made.

I used to do it almost apologetically, I think because I didn't, I didn't want to upset people, people who are Trump, uh, you know, supporters were very dogged about it.

And it's quite different than any kind of, uh, any other Republican president that I've ever made jokes about.

Um, the reactions are very different.

They're, they're very sort of personal.

Uh, people feel very offended, uh, in a way that they never did before because Trumpism and republicanism are two entirely different things.

Um, but anyway, so when I, so I used to just be sort of apologetic in the way that I went about doing it.

And now I realized a while ago, months, not years, that the time for cowardice is over, that we really do have to speak out.

Whether it upsets somebody or not.

Um, because, uh, we're hanging on by a thread and I, I don't want, you know, I want my children to have a better life than me and, and, uh, you know, I just, I don't want this time to have passed and feel like, gosh, I didn't say anything.

>> It feels.

Oh, it.

It feels.

Sorry.

That's okay.

Paul.

It feels sort of.

And bizarre to be sitting here talking to you at a time when we are eight hours away from the deadline set by President Trump about obliterating an entire Iranian civilization.

And so, you know, I in a way, it almost feels, uh, sort of inappropriate to talk about comedy, but at the same time, comedy has been used as a a point maker, a sort of a point of commentary for centuries.

And I it seems to me that you think, well, now more than ever, we seem to need that.

Yes.

>> Yes, absolutely.

It it it helps, you know, it's, uh, it's a spoonful of sugar, I guess, in a way.

Um, it's also, you know, it helps identify what's going on.

Um, when you say it in a funny way, I think people are, are sometimes more, you know, more open to it.

It's also what I know.

Um, I, you know, I've been doing this job for 40 something years.

Uh, and, and by the way, I disagree with the premise that Trump, uh, that Trump has ended comedy.

I disagree with that entirely.

Uh, you know, the truth is, if this was all made up and it wasn't real, it would be the funniest thing in the world.

Um, but, you know, the only thing you know, you're right.

Who knows what will happen?

Although, listen, if infrastructure week is any kind of, uh, you know, measure, um, I don't think the Iranians have anything to fear.

Um, you know, he, he does have a tendency to say, you know, something's going to happen and then not, but, but, but why are we under the tyranny of a man who says such things?

Why, why does anybody even need in our daily lives what we're trying to address, what we need to address?

Why do we even need to take an ounce of our energy to fear that an American president would even say such a thing?

>> Well, let me take this in two different directions.

First of all, when it comes to comedians who intentionally avoid politics, there are plenty who intentionally avoid politics, and people like Nate Bargatze, who, you know, one of the most popular comedians in the country, he says.

>> He never heard of.

>> Him.

>> I somehow doubt that.

Um.

>> No, I've never heard of him.

I you know, I work alone and so I don't, um, you know, I just, I don't have, uh, what do you call it?

Like a, you know, I don't have like a river.

I don't have a feeder stream of, of, uh, pop culture.

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

>> Right.

>> Okay.

Right.

>> But so, so if, if I'm introducing Nate Bargatze to you, I would introduce him as someone who's become very popular on the premise that there is enough comedy in everyday life that he doesn't need to mine something divisive like politics, and he intentionally avoids that because he says, people hear politics in everything and they don't need it from from his comedy.

What do you think?

>> Well, that's a possibility too.

That's a way to go.

Um, I, again, I don't view myself as a political comic.

You know, I started doing the thing that you played a clip of, uh, um, I started making these videos in mid-August.

Um, I called them, hey, Donald Trump videos.

The premise is that I am talking directly to him that like, we're FaceTiming and, uh, you know, they are generally speaking, uh, you know, my tone to Donald Trump is friendly.

Uh, I tell him over and over again, I say, you know, I like you, Donald, but, uh, and then I go on to say, you know, whatever the the problem may be at this, you know, at this point, um, uh, and they've, you know, picked up a little bit of steam on the internet and they're, um, and they are, uh, kind of fun to do.

And, um, people write to me, oh my gosh, the comment section, people are like, oh my God, you're getting me through.

And I am a sucker for that line.

Um, I mean, I'm, thorough.

I'm thoroughly exhausted.

I have my regular job.

I do my, I do a podcast called Nobody Listens to Paula Poundstone, you know, and I'm in theaters.

Uh, I have, I have more than enough work to do, but I started doing the silly thing.

And when people started saying that it was helpful to them, I, you know, I'm trapped.

I, I have no way of stopping now.

Um, so, so I make these every night and, um, uh, but you know, but if you go to see me in a theater.

Yes, I talk about Trump.

I almost can't help it sometimes.

Um, because he is on my mind a lot.

And why not?

Um, but it's not the, it's not the sole, uh, of what I, uh, you know, of what I do.

Um.

>> But you're not avoiding it by choice.

>> Of course.

Yes, yes.

>> I do not avoid it by choice.

And in fact, um, you know, what I did was, you know, give myself permission.

Like there's been a point, there was a it's not so much now, but there was a point where, um, uh, you know, where there were audience members that would get mad and, and, you know, storm out.

And it's interesting because I read a, I read an interview one time with Wanda Sykes where she was having the exact same problem at the time that I was having it, which was that it was this very sort of, um, uh, it was a very sort of performative storming out of, uh, audience members that were upset that you made a, you know, a Trump joke.

Um, it was a while ago.

It was not so much now.

It was a while.

>> Ago, like the 20 teens.

>> The first administration.

>> Yeah, yeah.

And to some degree, maybe the dead woods out of the room now.

Um, I, I don't know, but I stopped worrying about it.

And the other thing, you know, it's weird if I were to go to a show and I didn't like it, um, I would.

>> Maybe go to the ladies room and then not go back in.

And that would be that.

Uh, but these kind of, you know, when the people would leave these shows and again, I think Wanda had the same problem, which was, you know, they had to, you know, all the focus had to be on them.

They had to make a big deal of it.

They, you know, what an odd way to, you know, what an odd way to, uh, there was something about it just felt strange.

It just felt like Trump's army.

It wasn't, you know, it wasn't just someone who wasn't enjoying what you were doing.

It was someone who had, like, this assignment to, uh, let everyone know, um, which again, is kind of Trumpism, you know, it's this very selfish, um, you know, like we can't, you know, nothing.

No, no tides that rises, you know, that rise all boats, uh, allowed.

Um, so, uh, yeah, but it's, it's not the, it's not solely what I do at all.

>> I think that, that.

>> That's kind of the modern, what social media has done to our brains though, it's like, number one, every thought can and maybe should be uttered publicly.

And number two, the, the sun revolves around you.

I mean, I recently saw a post by someone, uh, in, in the Finger Lakes region who at the time where TSA agents are or TSA, all the funding issues are happening.

All these airports are just a disaster.

It's a mess.

Lines are long.

Well, he travels and he goes, well, the line wasn't that long here.

So I just want to say this is essentially this is more fake news.

And I guess this is why people don't trust institutions.

And I'm going, listen, buddy, just because you had a flight that worked out doesn't mean there's not like millions of people who are missing Connections or are late and the sun doesn't revolve around you.

But I think social media has broken our brains a little bit like that.

Paula.

>> Well, that may well be true.

It may also be, you know, on one of the days, uh, since the TSA thing began, I was in the Chicago airport and it was, uh, very early in the morning.

So it was one of the first, you know, I was there for one of the first flights out and they were, when I, I checked in at the ticket counter, the woman, um, and they don't normally do this.

Normally they'll tell you, you know, go left or right towards, you know, security.

But this woman says to me, she says, okay, you know, go, you know, go over to your left and then go out the door.

And I said, I'm sorry because I've not been instructed to go out the door before.

And she said, well, that's where the line is now.

It's out the.

Door.

And, uh, you know, so I followed the instructions.

I went, I stood where I was supposed to stand.

Um, and it was a, it was in fact a long line.

It moved crisply, but it was in fact, you know, a long line.

And so I posted a joke about it and, you know, in a little while, you know, other people were commenting on the joke, blah, blah, blah.

Or maybe it was even later that day, someone sent, I think it was a picture of the security line.

Um, being very small and well, that's very possible that later in the day it was very small, right?

But it was the same thing.

It was as if to say that that my description and it was only a joke, but that my description was, uh, you know, phony, fake, inaccurate.

And they do have a team of people that do that sort of thing.

Um, you know, uh, so it may well be that when posts, you know, on a sensitive subject like that, that you trip some sort of a switch.

I guess, uh, and you, and you end up with bots that are, you know, that also take it away from what the issue is, right?

Because then the issue becomes, you know, whether or not you're an honest broker as opposed to whether or not the line is long.

>> Well, so I want to listen to a couple other clips here that I have for you and get your take on this.

Um, there are, um, there was a recent conversation on the New Yorker podcast between David Remnick of The New Yorker and Conan O'Brien.

And they had this exchange about President Trump in particular.

Let's listen.

>> Does Trump feel funny to you anymore?

No.

>> Years ago, when I was at Harvard and working on the Lampoon, we would try and think of magazines.

We could do a parody of.

And there was one magazine we always knew we couldn't parody, which was the National Enquirer.

If a magazine has as its cover, Elvis Still Alive, marries alien.

Um, and they have a baby that's, uh, a three speed blender.

That's what the real magazine's coming out with.

You can't do a comedic take on that.

It's very difficult or I think impossible to do.

And I think Donald Trump, to me, if he were a magazine, it's the National Enquirer.

There's a lot that's so bombastic and so outrageous.

Um, and so unprecedented that how do you oh, I've got a great Trump impression.

And I have him saying this, well, that's not crazier than what really happened yesterday.

So I don't know how this is funny.

>> All right, so what do you make of that, Paula?

>> His Harvard education was wasted.

Uh, I think you can do jokes.

I find.

Wow, I find I find Trump jokes funny depending on the joke.

Joke, obviously.

Um, but I don't think he I don't think because he's so wacky.

He, you know, puts himself out of range at all.

Um, and I also think that, you know, part of the reason it makes sense to me, uh, to, uh, to make Trump jokes is that it's, it's, it's, it's, it's our coping mechanism.

It's, excuse me.

Pardon me.

I don't have a cough button.

Okay.

I, I do have a chronic cough, but no cough button.

Um, so yeah, he, it's, it's nature's coping mechanism, maybe making jokes, a sense of humor and, uh, you know, we have it.

And so I use it.

I think dogs might have it, maybe raccoons and of course, anything else that we're directly related to, like chimpanzees or gorillas or something.

But, uh, it's, it works.

And therefore I personally use it.

Um, so, and I, and I. I asked Dahlia Lithwick, the, the great, um, uh, Supreme Court Analyst uh, um, if we end up in the gulag, will she be in a cage with me?

And she said, yes.

And so I'm all set.

I, uh, feel that if I can be with Dahlia Lithwick, who has the greatest vocabulary and the use of that vocabulary of anyone I've ever known in my life.

You know what?

When the resistance comes and we're liberated, I'm going to turn to them and say, just a few more minutes.

I'd like to see.

I just need to spend a little bit more time with Dahlia Lithwick.

So I.

>> Covered.

That'd be an amazing person.

You'd learn a lot by sitting next to her.

>> You would learn a lot.

>> You would.

>> Learn a lot.

Oh my God, she's she's, she's the she's funny and, and she just has this, the words that she uses to say what she's saying are just perfect.

>> So I want to take a little diversion and I'm Rob, I'm going to.

>> Oh my gosh, you can't take a little.

No.

Oh, oh, I thought you were going to take an excursion.

No, don't take an excursion.

>> No excursions.

I'm going to leave that for.

Yeah, yeah.

>> What about all those travel companies that have, you know, excursions like now they're all screwed.

They're they can't.

>> He's really ruined that word.

Yeah.

I think he actually meant incursion.

But he said excursion and then he just stayed with it.

>> More than likely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And by the way, just stayed with it.

That right.

Isn't that the personality?

>> Well sure.

>> Isn't that the tech?

It's the technique, right.

Of just keep saying it.

You know, he I he he.

What did he what was he telling.

Um, you know, I think he's at his best at Easter.

I really do, uh, the, the um, not this, I mean, this year was interesting too.

It's when he sits at the table with the kids or when he's like, crouched down.

>> With kids.

>> Yeah.

Um, last year, not this year, but last year.

Um, he was showing them his.

Donald Trump, Donald Trump assassination, attempted assassination, baseball cards.

Do you remember that?

>> Oh, of him.

Like the fight, fight, fight cards.

Yeah, yeah.

He's like pumping his fist after a zero shot.

Yeah.

>> Right.

And he's like showing this to little kids.

>> Yeah.

They're like six.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> And this year, what did he say to them today.

Oh I.

>> Know he's talking about the auto pen.

President Biden signing not being able to sign bills with his own pen.

He's talking to six year olds about this.

Yeah.

>> I you know, the six year old's barely have any idea who he is, let alone who Joe Biden is, because Joe Biden was not, you know, was not president during the time where they could speak, uh.

He's his his I find his Easter presentations some of his funniest.

>> Well, and so what I want to do, if you don't mind, Rob, I want to recue that clip that we have from the start here.

And I want to ask Paula, the diversion in my own script is I want to ask you a little bit about your approach to the art of comedy, because when I listen to someone like Mike Birbiglia, he loves to break down a joke and he talks a lot about how in his own work, whether it is in a video, in a routine, in stand up, he he puts a lot of emphasis on what the weight of each word.

And he'll play with different words and move them around and I. And then, um, but in the social media age, then you've got to be on different platforms and now you're supposed to be on TikTok and now you're supposed to be putting videos out and you probably can't spend as much time.

So I want to listen again to what Paul said about President Trump's Easter message.

The eave line is amazing to me.

And I want to ask, Paula if this is just sort of a riff or if she's just, um, if this is just a riff or if she's actually kind of writing this.

But let's listen.

>> Beautiful Easter message.

By the way, what did you post Tuesday will be Power Plant day and Bridge Day, all wrapped up in one.

In Iran, there will be nothing like it.

Open the street.

Your crazy or you'll be living in hell.

Just watch.

Praise be to Allah.

President Donald J. Trump.

Oh, God is speaking through you for sure.

A lot of people don't know this, but God curses like a sailor.

I mean, in one of his earliest recorded conversations, he said, Eve, what the are you doing?

And he used to engage in some really raunchy animal husbandry humor with Noah.

>> So, Paula, is that a riff or are you writing that first?

>> Oh, uh, I rate these.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah, I rate these.

I, I add to them.

I mean, I write, I add to them and change them as I go along as well.

Um, but I, I wouldn't have the, uh, I, I could, I wouldn't, you know, there's, they're not long, uh, I, I would never be able to just talk.

Uh, I can on stage, but in this format, I would, I would find that impossible.

>> Um, and, and in this.

>> So yeah, I was, I was typing, I was typing away and I came across the Eve idea.

>> And the animal husbandry.

So, but in this sort of, um, a million different platform era that we're in and there's all this, this pull at least, you know, I think a lot of people who are in public facing spaces, you go like, well, am I supposed to be on TikTok?

Should we be on Instagram?

Like, are we on YouTube?

Are we doing enough shorts?

Um, do you enjoy this better than when it was fewer platforms and more just specials, stand up, you know, live performance.

Is this better or worse for you?

>> Uh, I'm not sure I understand the question.

>> Well.

>> I mean, meaning that there's multiple platforms.

>> Yeah.

And there's and there's an expectation, at least I sense the expectation that like, well, you did a great routine one day, but like, what have you done for me lately?

What's your next?

Are you having a video tomorrow?

Are you doing a video today?

Should you do two different shorts?

I mean, like it's constant, constant, constant content.

And it's a beast to kind of keep feeding and that could be exhausting.

>> Well, it's absolutely that.

Yes it is.

And I'm exhausted.

Um uh, yeah, it's absolutely that I, you know, I don't know, people have this idea that things are so different on one platform to the other, you know, that, you know, that the, um, you're being received by an entirely different group of people with a different mindset.

I find that questionable.

Um, you know, it's, it's like, you know, Americans love to feel that we're all so different.

And it's part, it's part of what's gotten us in this mess.

Um, the, the whole, you know, that we're all so that, that we have, we forget sometimes that we have more in common than we have differences.

Um, you know, whatever idiot said that no two snowflakes were alike.

Where did that come from?

Who looked at all the snowflakes?

That's ridiculous.

Uh, surely there's plenty of snowflakes that are the same.

And, you know, there's no evidence.

And there couldn't be because they melt quickly to indicate that every snowflake is different.

Um, and in the same way with human beings, we really are like in a lot of ways.

Uh, and so these platforms, you know, people go, oh, it's much nicer over on blue sky.

Well, I guess that depends who's responding to you.

Um, but yeah, overall, it does feel like a, it does feel like I'm shoveling coal into a giant furnace.

>> Well, I mean, and boy, just looking at the podcast that nobody listens to, Paula Poundstone turns out to be an incorrect podcast title because you're doing a ton of work there.

You could do once a month and, you know, so why work at this pace?

I mean, obviously you work if you love it, I guess, but wow, that's a it's a lot of work.

>> It is a lot of work.

Well, right now I've sort of, um, as I said, I started doing the hey, Donald Trump's in mid-August and then, uh, 80, uh, uh, 87 days ago, I started doing an additional daily series, which is shorter, but it's a countdown until November 3rd wherein I try to give people something they can do every day, um, to save our democracy, uh, you know, because hand ringing is not as helpful as you may think.

Um, so, uh, and again, not an expert in any way.

Um, but I, you know, I try to sort of, you know, read up and, and, you know, pollinate from different, um, really good, uh, you know, podcasts and sources, uh, on this sort of thing.

Um, I often encourage people to listen to Heather Cox Richardson who is, uh, you know, you should get a college credit for every time you, you hear her.

She's just fantastic.

Um.

But, but what I decided because each of these, they probably take, uh, you know, certainly the hey, Donald Trump's take about four hours and, and the other ones can, you know, I can do it in two probably.

Um, so that is a lot of work.

And I'm really, really tired.

But what I decided is, um, that I'm, I don't know where I get the a year as a number, but I decided that I'm, I'm donating my life for a year.

Um, to, to, to, to try to help save democracy.

I mean, if everyone puts their aura in the water in some ways, sometimes individually and sometimes collectively, we will fix this.

We absolutely can and we must.

Um, and, and the consequence of doing nothing or, or just, uh, you know, or just, uh, wringing your hands is so much greater than the consequence of doing something so and so much worse, that is.

>> Yeah.

So, so tell me specifically who is doing nothing the most or who annoys you the most by just wringing their hands when you think they could be doing more?

>> Oh, I don't know any particular, you know.

>> I mean, it's not the news media.

It's not people in power.

It's not Democrats in Congress.

It's not Republicans in Congress.

>> Oh, well, I don't I, I do not understand what the Republicans in Congress think they're doing.

I mean, I just I just don't get it.

Um, unless it's all unless it's entirely based on blackmail.

Uh, and by the way, you know, people go, well, they're afraid of his tweets.

I don't think so.

I think it has to be something bigger than that.

And so it may well be that he, you know, threatens their families or threatens them with some, you know, horrible revelation about their personal lives.

I don't know, but it's certainly not facts that are guiding them.

It's not what's best for the American people that are guiding them.

It's some form of self-preservation that that that's driving them forward.

And I don't know where it comes from.

Does it come from the, you know, sort of Epstein crowd as a whole?

Because clearly a bunch of rich white men from around the world sat around, uh, you know, in addition to trafficking, uh, girls, they also, um, were dividing up the world, deciding, you know, who gets to exist and who doesn't and who gets to, uh, you know, the New World Order.

I mean, the arrogance of it, the hubris of it is shocking.

Um, but, you know, it's not good, you know, would it be weak commentary to just go?

It's not good.

>> Well, uh, we referenced recently the great historian writer Barbara Tuchman.

She wrote about, she wrote a book about the 14th century when there were wars and literally the, the Black Plague.

And like a third of Europe died with pestilence.

And she summed it up by saying it was a bad time for humanity, you know, which was like, yes, it definitely was that that was that was we nailed that part.

Um, so I want to listen.

I want to listen to another clip for you, with you before I get to this clip.

You've said you admire the late night hosts, especially Stephen Colbert and Jimmy Kimmel, for what they've had to deal with from this administration.

Um, can you just tell me a little bit more?

I don't know if you how well you know them personally, but what it's been like to watch the last year.

Okay.

What's it been like to watch the last year with them?

>> Well, they've been brilliantly funny and they've been highlighting stuff that's important for, you know, for Americans to, to pay attention to and, and to understand, um, they've done it with, uh, you know, you know, obviously, um, it's, they're informing us, but they're informing us with humor, which is just a, you know, a people have an appetite for that in a way that they don't.

If, if it just seems like they're being told some sort of political information.

And in this climate, um, you know, there is for those guys because there's, you know, because they have such big platforms there, there is some danger.

And Trump likes to go after he tried to do it to Jimmy Kimmel, and he's done it successfully to Stephen Colbert.

Um, but Colbert, you know, they, they're, they go, oh, yeah, you know, we're taking you off the air in May.

And by God, he just kept going, just kept doing it.

And I have just a world of respect for that.

And I realize neither of them write their jokes.

Um, they have big teams of people writing those jokes, but they are delivering them.

They hired the people and they have the courage to tell those jokes.

>> I will just say about Colbert, I love when he talks about when he asks people about what they think the meaning of life is.

He had a really beautiful exchange, interesting exchange with Ricky Gervais about Gervais, his atheism.

Stephen Colbert, of course, is not an atheist.

Um, so there's, there's a lot there that goes beyond just raw comedy.

But setting that aside, what I want you to respond to is this clip that's gone viral.

This is actor Vince Vaughn.

He was recently on the Theo Vaughn show, and the two of them offered a very different take on what late night comedy shows like Colbert and Kimmel have become.

I want to listen to that.

>> I think it's one of the reasons why, like, I've seen a lot of, um, why a lot of the late shows have struggled because all they did during like all they did, the only person they could make fun of at a certain point was just like white kind of people.

And it and then everything tanked after that.

Think about that.

>> This is.

But see, they never get it right.

The podcasts have gotten so much more popular with less production, less writers, less staff.

The reason why we have.

>> Two people working here, and both of them are hungover and one guy has shingles.

>> But the place is clean.

I like that you keep a clean plate.

>> Thank you.

Yeah, we did vacuum.

>> But, uh.

But yeah, because people want authenticity.

Yeah.

And I think that I think that the talk shows to a large part became really agenda based.

Yeah.

They were going to evangelical people to what they thought, you know what I mean?

And so people just rejected it because it didn't feel authentic.

It felt like they had an agenda.

It stopped being funny and it started feeling like I was in a class.

I didn't want to take.

>> Yeah.

>> Do you know what I mean?

For sure.

I'm getting scolded.

>> So Vince Vaughn says Colbert and Kimmel make him just feel like he's getting scolded by lefties in a class, and he didn't even sign up for the class.

And he thinks that's why these shows are going off the air, that they're not doing well.

What do you make of that, Paula?

>> I think he's wrong.

But, you know, I mean, for me, uh, first of all, they're, you know, in the old days, the, you know, one of the last programs that was on late at night was The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson.

And before that with, I don't know, Jack Paar or whoever it was.

Uh, right.

But, um, and there were only four channels, including PBS, which I never included when I was a kid.

Uh, and there just wasn't that much to watch.

Uh, and therefore everyone watched the Tonight Show.

But as time has gone by, you know, there's more and more and more choices and, um, you know, somehow we ended up with this sea of, um, late night shows and late night hosts sort of vying for the same audience, vying to do the same job.

And honestly, I find a lot of the interviews really, really boring because, because it's always, uh, you know, somebody ultimately they're promoting a movie or a television show, which is fine, but they don't, you know, they're digging really hard to find something to say.

Uh, you know, like a, a witty story that they could tell about their, you know, their past or about, you know, something, you know, that happened on the set, uh, and it's just not that interesting at a point, uh, you know, so I think that's part of what they struggle with.

They struggle with the fact that those kinds of shows have been on for so long.

And people's appetites maybe just change, but I don't think it has anything to do with this, you know, being schooled and blah, blah, blah.

And even what they said was kind of contradicted themselves.

They said, you know, that.

What was it?

They can't have an agenda.

They have to be authentic.

Do you think because someone's authentic, it means they don't have an agenda?

I would disagree with that.

>> No, that's an interesting point.

In fact, a lot of people I hear who say, I don't want any politics.

I just want to live my life, are pretty conservative.

And that seems to be kind of a default that if you see what I just want to affirm, I've seen a lot of what Paul is talking about there.

That's an interesting observation.

I would also say, Paula, in decades past with late night shows, it might have been more interesting for the general population to see celebrities be interviewed, because there weren't there weren't, you know, countless places where they would get access to what celebrities are doing or thinking because there weren't there weren't podcasts and there wasn't TikTok and there wasn't videos and reels posted every day and Instagram, it was like, oh yeah, okay, I'll sit down and listen to Harrison Ford.

This is interesting.

Well, now you're supposed to everyone's supposed to be posting ten times a day.

And no thought that you have is original.

I mean, I'm being facetious, but I just think that that makes the format a lot harder to survive in the modern era.

But, you know.

>> Well, I think it does.

And this idea that, you know, everyone has turned to podcasting.

Yes.

But have they turned to one podcast?

No, for the most part, um, you know, there are literally millions of podcasts and, uh, that audience is divided up, you know, in the world of podcasting is a little bit like our overall economy in that there is a 1% and then everybody else is scrambling, uh, you know, for, for, for, for crumbs.

Um, but, uh, you know, there are millions and millions of podcasts and you can, um, you know, you can almost craft a show that suits your, uh, suits your personal needs, uh, you get one night I was on stage and I was talking about podcasting and, um, this is, I don't know, a few years back and, uh, I was explaining to the audience, I said, you know, because I, I had an audience at the time that didn't necessarily even know what a podcast was.

So I would, you know, try to explain what a podcast was.

And I would say, you know, one of the virtues is that you can listen anytime you want.

Um, it's just waiting for you.

So long as it's been posted, it's just waiting for you.

I said, you know, the other, I said, you can find a podcast on any topic, you know, like, uh, I said, I, I can, I can, there is a podcast about lichen and, um, somebody in the audience took it upon themselves to Google that when I said it and they shouted out, there are two, which really made me laugh.

You know, they're really I mean, it is, it is so diluted that you know, that honestly, there's a, there's a, there's a podcast for everyone, like it or not.

>> Well, after we take our only very short break here, we're going to get some audience questions for Paula Poundstone who's joining us, comedian, a panelist on wait, wait, don't tell me, uh, the host of the Nobody Listens to Paula Poundstone podcast.

So there's another podcast in the sea of many.

And Paula works very hard at that.

And Paula Poundstone is coming to Rochester on Friday for a show at Hochstein Performance Hall.

Tickets still available for that.

So let's take a brief break.

Come back with your feedback for Paula Poundstone.

Coming up in our second hour, the team from City Magazine joins us to talk about the April issue.

And the subject is Growth.

It is the season of growth.

But growth can mean a lot of things.

It could mean change in our community.

It could mean literally, what are they growing on the farms where they've got solar installations?

And why are there so many sheep?

A great story and a photo essay there, and a lot more with the team from city.

We'll talk about it next.

Our.

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>> I'm going to put this first email in the category of.

There are two podcasts on lichen.

This is from Tess who says, Dear Paula, someone did look at thousands of snowflakes and discovered they were all different.

William Snowflake Bentley lived in Vermont.

Snowflake wasn't his actual middle name.

I think that's what his nickname was.

William Bentley lived in Vermont and the last part of the 19th century.

He took over 5000 photos of snowflakes by using a microscope and camera to get the image.

Lots of these images are on a website.

They are gorgeous.

Enjoy them.

So apparently all snowflakes really are different.

Um.

Although the larger point that you are making, I think is more important, but go ahead, Paula.

>> I would still argue with sample size there.

Yeah, I mean, I realize that 5000 sounds like a lot, but not when there's, you know, infinite number.

It isn't.

So, uh, I, you know, my guess is that if you, you know, the okay, you know, the snowflake where there's, there's sort of a circle in the center and then there's like little.

>> I know.

>> Little arms that come out from it.

Yeah.

That one, there's two of those.

>> But the, the larger point, of course, I want to ask you a little bit more about because as much as you feel like this moment requires people not just to post on social media, but to do something about what you see as a real emergency, we got here in part because we are a divided electorate.

There's been, you know, it's been a decade of Donald Trump running for American office, and he's done he's won two out of three presidential elections.

So as much as you felt like, you know, people are more alike than different, and there's so much that brings us together.

Are you surprised at how divided it feels?

Do you think that that is, you know, sort of manipulated in the way George Carlin used to talk about?

Or do you think that that's become real?

What what's going on with the division in society?

>> I don't know if I would say there's a lot of things that bring us together.

I would say that we have more in common than we have differences.

Um, and some of that does not bring us together because I think people feel, um, uh, because, you know, there are people that, that feel like, you know, there's not enough of everything for everyone.

And so they must make sure that some other people don't get whatever it is.

Um, you know, whether it's work or, you know, or, or opportunity, um, and, and, but that's not because we have differences.

We, we're the same.

We would just prefer to be superior to one another.

Um, that's a, you know, that's a, seems to be a drag.

I just saw on the weekend, I saw, um, I watched, uh, the ten Commandments again.

Oh, and by the way, why is it so easy to confuse Charlton Heston with Clint Eastwood?

I've always done.

>> It.

>> Um, it's fair, but it was Charlton Heston.

Uh, performance of Moses.

Um, and, uh, you know, that was that was Moses's thing.

According to Charlton Heston.

Anyways, was, uh, you know, it's the, there was the oppressor and the oppressed.

Um, doesn't mean it doesn't mean that as time went by, it couldn't reverse itself, that the, you know, that the Hebrews couldn't be the oppressor and the Egyptians couldn't have been the oppressed.

Uh, that sort of odd drive to dominate seems to be, you know, there seems to be a lot of us that participate in that for whatever reason.

>> All right, back to the emails Rick writes in to say.

Rick writes to say he's rereading parts of the book blueprint for a Revolution by Popovich, who was part of the Utpa group that helped overthrow Milosevic in Serbia.

And he he says, I thought this quote in the book would be relevant to the discussion today.

Uh, Mark Twain said the human race has unquestionably one really effective weapon laughter against the Assault of laughter.

Nothing can stand.

And Rick wanted to know if you've heard that quote and if, um, if you think it's pertinent here.

>> You know what?

I've not heard that quote.

I've certainly heard the idea.

And I think it's very pertinent, you know, um, uh, none.

I mean, nobody really likes to be made fun of, I suppose.

I mean, there's a way of doing it that where you're laughing with the person and not at the person, but when people feel laughed at, um, it's, uh, you know, it sort of brings them down.

Um, and, and again, when you're bringing to light a person's weaknesses and you're bringing to light, like, why are you following this nutter?

Um, uh, it makes people, you know, sort of, you know, take, take a look, I think at that, which is what a lot of these obviously dictators fear.

Um, so I'm familiar with the concept, not with the quote.

Um, but I believe it's, you know, I believe it's true.

Trump hates to be laughed at.

He said so he said so over and over and over again.

And the irony is that he thinks nothing of making fun of someone else.

You know, you could make fun of the disabled reporter, you know, think about how many places where jumping off places for all of us with this stuff, where, you know, where we should have gone.

Like, wait a minute, you know, if a guy could do that, what else could he do?

Right?

You know, not good.

But instead we somehow, uh.

And when I say we, I don't mean, you know, I don't mean every voter, but I mean, sort of collectively we pushed ahead, uh, you know, one of the, you know, one of the things that we that is obviously an enormous problem, uh, is Fox and, and the little Fox offshoots, Newsmax and the like.

Um, but that I think in my experience, anyways, that's new to some degree to America, the idea that you have just a, you know, just a constant firehose of, um, disinformation in, in one place that's become, you know, that's so popular.

>> I, yeah, I want to ask you about the whole idea about Trump being left out a little bit more, and then I'll get back to a couple more emails here.

Um, I agree, I think the analysis of Trump being laughed at, laughed at.

He hates that more than when people say that he's, you know, sort of a strong man.

He actually seems to like being called.

>> Oh, he likes that.

Of course he likes that.

Yes.

He.

Absolutely.

Yes.

Because I think.

>> He misinterprets the phrase strong man.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, yeah, sure.

And so this phrase Taco, I don't remember who coined the phrase taco.

It stands for Trump.

Always chickens out.

And it was a way to sort of lampoon Trump for years in which he would make these grandiose threats or claims, you know, and then doesn't follow through.

And somebody is able to sort of be obsequious in his presence and that they bring him down his his temperature down on something, and he doesn't follow through.

Are you worried on a day like today where he's talking about, uh, maybe using weapons that are unthinkable in the modern age that he now has been made fun of so much with this taco thing that he could actually do something really terrible.

Do you ever do you worry about that at all?

Paula?

>> He could always have done something that was really terrible.

You know, I don't think we're any closer to or further away from him doing something really terrible than before or after the taco joke started being made.

I am aware, and B, just because of the kind of person that he is that, you know, if you say to him, um, you know, oh boy, you always change your mind, you know, that that there is a possibility that it will make him dig in.

Um, on the other hand, uh, even during this escalation with the Iranians, um, he's changed his mind over and over again.

>> Yeah.

He has.

>> I mean, um, this, this, uh, you know, we, you know, NATO, NATO come, you know, help us.

Uh, and then I didn't really need NATO.

I was just testing them, uh, you know, or, you know, um, he's changed his mind back and forth and back and forth, almost childishly, in fact, maybe very childishly.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with learning more information and therefore changing your mind.

And I think sometimes, you know, with when people, when voters and political analysts and commentators, um, like to say, well, the person flip flops, boy, uh, I wouldn't want a leader that can't change their mind.

Yeah.

Um, if they change their mind every day, I think, I think we have a problem, but I wouldn't want a leader that can't receive more information and go, boy, you know what?

I think I was wrong before.

Uh, to me that, you know, it's like, I, I, I don't want to listen to a news network that doesn't occasionally go, you know what, uh, on such and such a night we reported blah, blah, blah, and we regret our error.

That to me tells you that these people are really good at what they do.

>> All right, so last one here, Jane writes in, uh, loves your work, wants to know who do you think is the funniest comedian working today?

And then she says, alternatively, if you don't want to answer that, who's the funniest comedian of all time?

>> Yeah, I don't know the answer.

It's so it's such a broad pool.

Um, and as you know from earlier in our conversation, I don't know a lot of., uh.

Today's comics.

What was that guy's name again?

>> Nate Bargatze.

>> Nate Bargatze.

Yeah, he's a big guy.

I mean, you say it.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, you say it like Nate Berkus.

Like, you know, is on everyone's lips.

I've literally never heard of Nate Bargatze.

And.

And yet I don't feel smaller for it.

Um, so favorite of all time.

Well, I just don't know.

Uh, I can tell you some that I think are great, but again, obviously I just don't know the whole, I don't know, I don't know all the flavors that are offered.

You know, the first time I ever went to a Baskin-Robbins when I was a kid, I ordered, I think it was chocolate fudge and French vanilla.

And my sisters roared with laughter because as far as they were concerned, we went to this place that had 31 flavors, and I chose vanilla and chocolate.

Now my feeling was that French vanilla and chocolate fudge were exotic variants of of vanilla and chocolate.

I didn't feel that I had just.

But I understand why they thought it was funny.

So I, uh, you know, there are so many varieties that that.

Who knows?

But I certainly think that Richard Pryor, uh, was near the top of funniest people of all time.

And some, uh, you know, Robin Williams changed the way, uh, stand up comedy was done.

Every comic my age or younger owes a debt of gratitude to Robin Williams for, um, you know, both sort of opening up the way that stand up comedy is done.

And reinvigorating audiences interest in the form.

Um, and I love Bob and Ray, the old radio team.

>> Well, we owe a debt of gratitude to you for giving us the hour here.

And Paula Poundstone Rochester will see you on Friday at Hochstein Performance Hall.

For those lucky enough to be there in person, thanks for sharing the time with us.

We'll also hear you on Nobody Listens to Paula Poundstone, your podcast.

Thanks for being on the show today.

>> It was great talking with you.

Thanks so much.

>> Paula Poundstone joining us, more Connections coming up in just a moment.

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