But Sa quote -- "irrevocable steps" toward a Palestinian# state.

U.S. officials hope a pause in the and hostage deal could lead to progress on# larger issues, reconstructing Gaza, reforming the## Palestinian Authority, developing Gaza governance,# and finally normalization in two states.

Now we get two perspectives.

Aaron David# Miller is a senior fellow at the Carnegie## Endowment for International Peace and a longtime# State Department official in both Democra Republican administrations.

And Khaled Elgindy# is a senior fellow at the Middle East Institute,## where he directs their Program on# Palestine and Israeli-Palestinian## Affairs.

He's participated in previous# Israeli-Palestinian negotiations Thanks very much, both of you.# Welcome back to the "NewsHour."

Khaled Elgindy, let me start with you.

Let's start with what's on the ta Hamas has refused any deal that doesn't say the# words permanent cease-fire.

This deal does not## have that.

Is it still possible, do you think, to# get a Hamas-Israel hostage-for-pause deal today?

KHALED ELGINDY, Middle East# Institute: I think it's possible.

I think what Hamas will look for short temporary pause would be treated as an effective# cease-fire.

So, if they can get those kinds of## assurances from the United States, in particular,# then I think Hamas could be persuaded to go along.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Aaron David Miller, this is a# longer pause, in the American nomenclature, than## we have had in the past.

Could that six-week-plus# pause become effectively a cease-fire?

AARON DAVID MILLER, Carnegie Endowment for# International Peace: Frankly, I think the Israelis## will be operating in Gaz And whatever commitments the Israeli make to# a permanent -- quote-unquote -- "cease-fire,"## I think all bets are off.

They're# determined, I think, to identify,## find, and eliminate key Hamas leaders# that were responsible for October 7.## So I think it's possible you may get# a break.

How long that break will be## and whether it can be turned into something# more permanent is another matter entirely.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Khaled Elgindy,# let us zoom all the way out.

The pot at the end of this rainbow, as# I said, what the Saudis are now calling irrevocable# steps toward a two-state solution.

Is that## possible with the Biden administration# as mediator and this Israeli government?

KHALED ELGINDY: I think it's certainly# possible that the parties, the Saudis,## the Israelis, the Americans, could strike# a formula that works for the three of them.

I'm not sure that it will be meaningful in# the end, but it might be enough to persuade## all sides to attach their names to it.# I think the problem isn't with getting## people to accept a state.

Even Donald# Trump had a plan for a Palestinian state,## at the end of the day, as devoid of# meaning and sovereignty as it was.

I think what would be far more useful# is if the United States, in particular,## were talking about laying out a clear# plan for ending Israel's occupation,## both in Gaza, but also in the West# Bank and Jerusalem.

If the plan were## focused on ending Israel's occupation,# then it would be much more meaningful.

But as it stands, sure, a statehood, a# Palestinian state, two-state solution,## these are throwaway lines that have# been agreed to and ignored in the past.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Aaron David Miller,## should AARON DAVID MILLER: Well, any meaningful# commitment to Palestinian statehood by## an Israeli government that was serious about# negotiat that was serious as well is going to bring about,# must bring about the end of Israel's occupation.

I do agree with Khaled that I think such a# deal is possible.

I'm concerned about it.## I think we risk overpaying the Saudis in# bilateral coin.

A mutual defense treaty,## I don't think we have concluded one with any# country since the 1960 U.S.-Japan treaty was## revised.

Giving the Saudis access to American# nuclear technology without -- allowing them## to control the fuel cycle, that's a# huge blow to our proliferation policy.

And I also worry that, in the end, whatever# commitments the Israeli -- this Israeli governme makes is not going to lead to -- irrevocably# to a serious negotiation.

Palestinians have## to produce a partner.

Israelis need to be# serious as well.

Then we can start talking.## I don't think Israeli-Saudi normalization is the# key to ending the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

NICK SCHIFRIN: That outside-to-in strategy has## been continued by the Biden Bu t pick up, Khaled Elgindy, on that point that# Aaron David Miller made ab partner.

Is there a Palestinian partner?

And# is there a -- quote, unquote -- "revitalized,"## to use Tony Blinken's word, revitalized# Palestinian Authority?

Is that possible?

KHALED ELGINDY: What's more# important than a revitalized## Palestinian Authority is to Wh ether it's the Palestinian Authority is# irrelevant.

What Palestinians need is a## national leadership, and that# speaks for all Palestinians,## both inside and outside the occupied territories.# That, leader.

He has been parochial.

He's# been ineffective.

He's been weak.

I think it is possible to imagine a different# Palestinian internal political configuration,## but it's something that Palestinians# have to do on their own.

But I would## add to that leadership equation the# United States.

The United States has## not been an effective broker.

It# has not managed this crisis well.

It has actually taken, I think, very# reckless decisions from the get-go,## giving Israel a green light with no# red lines of any sort.

And we are now## four months into this horror in Gaza, and they# have sort of painted themselves into a corner.

So we also need a credible American# leadership that understands and has## empathy for and the ability to connect# with people on both sides.

Right now,## the Biden administration has only managed to# show humanity and empathy for the Israeli side.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Aaron David Miller, is there a# version of the Biden administration policy that## would be less -- quote -- "reckless," less# painted into a cor AARON DAVID MILLER: It would be really,## really difficult.

This president clearly has an emotional# attachment to Israel.

He has a high r for the people of Israel, the idea of Israel,# the security of Israel, not so much, obviously,## for the current Israeli prime minister.

But# I think that lack of empathy is important.

As to whether the United States could be# a credible broker, we're facing probably## among the most consequential elections# in American history.

The real question,## I think, for the administration,# since governing is about choosing,## is whether, in this kind of an# election year, this administration## is prepared to be risk-ready when it comes to# Israeli-Palestinian peac The Israeli-Saudi piece is the easy part.# It's whether or not the United States can## be a credible mediator if, in fact --# and I don't think we're talking about## this happening any time soon -- if you ended# up with an Israeli-Palestinian negotiation.

Last time, Camp David, I was there.

Didn't# succeed.

We were facing gaps that were way,## way, way too large.

But we also didn't take charge## of the summit.

We need to be credible.# We need to apply assurances to both parties.

But we also are going# to have to apply plenty of vinegar, disincentives.

Nobody's ever going to plant a tree in your honor## if you make peace between Israelis# and NICK SCHIFRIN: Khaled Elgindy, quickly, though, is# there not an advantage to having an admi that is talking to the Palestinians, unlike the# Trump administration, and at least saying to the## region, this is where we're going, this is, as I# put it earlier, the pot at the end of the rainbow?

KHALED ELGINDY: Yes, if we're looking at things# in absolute minimalist terms, sure.

I mean,## that's the bare minimum required, is# the ability to talk to both sides.

But it's more important to go beyond# that and actually understand where the## two sides are coming from.

The United# States has always struggled with trying## to connect with, understand, have empathy# for Palestinians.

But this administration,## I think, has a much bigger blind spot than any# previous administration that I have ever seen.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Aaron David Miller, quickly,# would Benjamin Netanyahu be willing to jettison## his right-wing coalition if offered a deal that# would end with normalization with Saudi Arabia?

AARON DAVID MILLER: I'm betting# he's going to rely on what he knows,## a right-wing Israeli government.

If he goes# for the deal, he's going to end partners.

And those partners don't have much# regard for Mr. Netanyahu on trial for bribery,## fraud, breach of trust in# a Jerusalem district court.

I suspect, if he goes through this# deal, far from his b I think it's going to number his days.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Aaron David Miller, Khaled# Elgindy, thank you very much t AARON DAVID MILLER: Thank you, Nick.

KHAL