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♪ >>> WELCOME TO "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE," I'M DAVID CRUZ ALONG WITH A CRACK PANEL OF STATE HOUSE WATCHERS, STACIE SHERMAN IS DEPUTY MANAGING EDITOR FOR U.S. BUREAUS FOR BLOOMBERG.

CHARLIE IS THE POLITICAL COLUMNIST FOR "THE RECORD" "USA TODAY" NETWORK AND MATT FRIEDMAN IS REPORTER FROM POLITICO AND AUTHOR OF THE NEW JERSEY PLAYBOOK.

HEADING NOW INTO THE FINAL STRETCH OF THIS GOVERNOR'S RACE AND WITH THE INCREASING INTENSITY COMES A CALL FOR CIVILITY, WHICH HAS BECOME A QUAINT NOTION IN OUR MODERN POLITICAL DISCOURSE, BUT ONE LAWMAKER HAS BEEN CALLING FOR A MORE CIVIL TONE AND IN LIGHT OF THIS WEEK'S LESS THAN CIVIL DEBATE, WE THOUGHT WE'D GET SOME THOUGHTS FROM THAT.

LAWMAKER TODAY AND HIS NAME IS ASSEMBLY MAN REPUBLICAN LEADER JOHN.

GOOD TO SEE YOU TODAY.

>> MORNING, DAVID.

>> I GOT TO TELL YOU, THE MORE YOU CALL FOR PEOPLE TO BE NICE, THE LESS IT SEEMS PEOPLE WANT TO BE NICE.

>> WELL, NOT NECESSARILY BEING NICE.

HOW ABOUT RESPECTFUL?

I'M LISTENING TO THE DEBATE, AND I CAN'T HEAR THE ANSWER BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE SCREAMING FROM THE AUDIENCE.

DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK THAT SOMEONE SCREAMING FROM THE AUDIENCE IS GOING TO AFFECT ANYONE'S OPINION ON THE CANDIDATE?

I MEAN, WHAT IS IT, SIXTH GRADE?

YOU KNOW?

SHUT UP, SIT THERE, GIVE RESPECT TO THE CANDIDATES, LISTEN TO THEIR ANSWER.

I WOULD HAVE CLEARED THE ENTIRE AUDITORIUM AND SAID, LISTEN, IF YOU CAN'T ACT -- IF YOU ACT LIKE BABIES, WE'RE GOING TO THROW YOU ALL OUT.

THAT'S WHAT I WOULD HAVE SAID.

>> ARE YOU ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO THINKS THAT THERE SHOULD BE NO AUDIENCE AT DEBATES?

>> THERE SHOULD BE A RESPECTFUL AUDIENCE OR THEY SHOULD BE EXCLUDED.

IT'S NOT FAIR TO PEOPLE WHO ARE WATCHING AT HOME.

THEY WANT TO HEAR THE ANSWER.

THEY DON'T CARE WHAT PARTISANS THINK, ESPECIALLY THE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE.

PEOPLE WHO ARE INDEPENDENT.

THEY WANT TO HEAR THE ANSWERS.

I UNDERSTAND CERTAIN PEOPLE HAVE MADE UP THEIR MIND.

BUT BE RESPECTFUL FOR THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT.

>> SOMEONE SAID THIS WEEK THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN COOPED UP FOR THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF AND ARE JUST ACTING OUT NOW IN PUBLIC.

>> OH, THAT'S THE ANSWER?

YOU'RE COOPED UP?

WELL, HOW ABOUT BEING MATURE?

YOU BEING COOPED UP, SO YOU HAVE TO SCREAM AND YELL WHILE SOMEONE'S ANSWERING A QUESTION OR WHEN ONE OF THE PANELISTS, SUCH AS YOURSELF, IS ASKING A QUESTION?

I MEAN, COME ON.

THAT'S NO EXCUSE.

I MEAN, EITHER GROW UP OR DON'T SIT THERE.

I DON'T GET IT BECAUSE HE'S STILL A GOVERNOR, HE'S STILL A FORMER ASSEMBLYMAN RUNNING FOR OFFICE.

LET THEM SPEAK, AND IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THEIR ANSWER, GO TO THE VOTING BALLOT AND VOTE AGAINST THE GUY.

THAT'S ALL.

>> HOW MUCH RESPONSIBILITY DO YOU THINK THE MEDIA HAVE FOR THE TONE OF OUR POLITICS?

>> WELL, I THINK THE MEDIA WANTS, YOU KNOW, SOME KIND OF CONTROVERSY, BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT THINGS THAT ARE BORING.

ONE OF THE REASONS THEY WOULDN'T LET ME GO ON MSNBC OR FOX IS BECAUSE I WOULD TRY TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, AND THEY WOULD -- AND I WOULD GET A CALL FROM MY CONSULTANT THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO PUT YOU ON BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT BEING EXTREME.

SO, I UNDERSTAND.

I MEAN, YOU NEED SOME CONTROVERSY.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT EXISTS.

BUT YOU DON'T NEED THE CONTROVERSY FROM THE AUDIENCE.

YOU NEED IT FROM THE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS AND FROM THE CANDIDATES, NOT FROM SOME PARTISAN SITTING OUT THERE WITH CATCALLS.

>> WE TALKED WITH FORMER GOVERNOR CHRISTIE WHITMAN THIS WEEK ON "CHAT BOX," AND SHE PUTS MOST OF THIS ON FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP.

IS SHE RIGHT?

>> I THINK PART OF IT GOES TO TRUMP.

I MEAN, HE MADE WHATEVER SITUATION WE HAD WORSE BY CALLING PEOPLE NAMES, TALKING ABOUT JOHN McCAIN.

I THINK HE DESERVES, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE UNFORTUNATE CREDIT FOR THIS MESS.

NOT 100%.

BUT HE SURE DIDN'T HELP ANYTHING OUT AND HE ACTUALLY MADE IT OKAY TO KIND OF BE MEAN.

AND SOME PEOPLE LIKE IT.

I HATE IT.

>> SHE SAID ALSO THAT ANY ORGANIZED REPUBLICAN PARTY, STATE, LOCAL, COUNTY LEVEL, FEDERAL LEVEL, ANY ORGANIZED REPUBLICAN PARTY IS A PARTY OF TRUMP.

A, DO YOU SEE THAT AS THE CASE, AND B, DOES THAT NEED TO CHANGE IN ORDER FOR THE DISCOURSE TO BECOME MAYBE A LITTLE MORE CIVIL IN IS?

>> WELL, NEW JERSEY, IF WE WANT TO WIN, WE SURELY CAN'T BE THE PARTY OF DONALD TRUMP AND THE WAY HE POLLS IN THIS STATE AND THE WAY HE ACTS.

HE'LL NEVER BE ACCEPTABLE IN NEW JERSEY.

SO, YES, WE HAVE TO REJECT THAT KIND OF ATTITUDE THAT HE HAS, THE KIND OF NAME-CALLING THAT HE HAS, THE ARROGANCE THAT HE HAS IF WE'RE GOING TO WIN AS REPUBLICANS.

YOU KNOW, YOU CAN ACT LIKE IT DOESN'T EXIST, AND THEN WE'LL STAY IN THE MINORITY PARTY FOREVER.

>> CHARLIE, YOU WANTED TO JUMP IN HERE WITH A QUESTION.

>> NO, MY QUESTION FOR JON IS THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE BEEN CRITICAL OF TRUMP'S CONDUCT.

BUT WHAT ABOUT HIS CONSTANT STOKING OF THIS -- OF PICONSPIRY THEORIES ABOUT THE 2020 ELECTION, AND DO YOU THINK THAT -- DONALD TRUMP HAS UNDERMINED PUBLIC FAITH IN THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS?

>> WELL, TWO QUESTIONS, ONE, YEAH, HE ACTS LIKE IT WASN'T A LEGITIMATE ELECTION DESPITE THE FACT THAT FEDERAL COURTS HAVE SAID IT WAS ABSOLUTELY LEGITIMATE.

SO, THAT'S CRAZINESS.

BUT WHEN YOU READ THE BOOKS ABOUT HIM, HE NEVER STOPS.

I'VE READ ALL THOSE BOOKS, AND HE JUST CONTINUES WHATEVER AGENDA HE HAS, HE NEVER BACKS OFF, SO THAT'S WHAT HE DID HERE.

THE FACT THAT PEOPLE FOLLOW THAT NONSENSE IS RIDICULOUS.

I MEAN, FEDERAL COURTS ARE VERY, VERY SIGNIFICANT, CREDIBLE, ETHICAL COURTS.

AND THEY REJECTED ALL OF THAT NONSENSE.

IT'S TIME FOR HIM TO STOP ALSO.

AND STOP REPUBLICANS FROM ACTING LIKE IT WASN'T A LEGITIMATE ELECTION.

I SAID THAT IMMEDIATELY AFTER, AND YOU KNOW, YOU CATCH ALL THAT HEAT.

I DON'T REALLY CARE.

I MEAN, THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH.

BIDEN WON THE ELECTION.

THAT'S IT.

IT'S NOT THAT COMPLICATED.

>> LET ME GET A QUICK LOOK AT THIS GOVERNOR'S RACE, ASSEMBLYMAN.

I'M ASSUMING YOU'RE A CIATTARELLI GUY.

WHAT'S HIS CASE, AND HAS HE MADE IT?

>> I THINK HE'S MADE THE CASE.

HE FACES TWO OBSTACLES.

THE OVERHANG OF THE TRUMP FEELINGS THAT PEOPLE DON'T TRUST REPUBLICANS IN NEW JERSEY BECAUSE OF TRUMP.

AND COVID.

THE POLLING SHOWS THAT MURPHY WAS PRETTY COMFORTABLE IN TERMS OF HIS LEAD ON HANDLING COVID.

SO, THOSE ARE THE TWO ISSUES THAT JACK HAS TO DEAL WITH.

JACK'S RIGHT ON TAXES.

JACK'S RIGHT ON THE ECONOMY.

JACK'S RIGHT ON BEING REASONABLE AS A LEADER IN THE STATE.

BUT HE HAS A TOUGH TIME BECAUSE OF THOSE TWO ISSUES.

I MEAN, AND YOU GOT TO TALK ABOUT THOSE TWO ISSUES AND BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE ISSUES, I THINK, THAT VOTERS, I THINK, HAVE -- AND THERE'S A REASON I THINK THAT MURPHY'S BEEN AHEAD.

I THINK THOSE ARE THE TWO ISSUES.

>> AND LASTLY, MONMOUTH HAS MURPHY UP BY 9 TO 13 POINTS.

IS IT CLOSER THAN THAT, DO YOU THINK?

>> YEAH, I THINK IT IS, AND IT GETS CLOSER AS YOU GET CLOSER TO NOVEMBER 2nd, BUT I ALSO BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE TO REDEFINE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND WE HAVE TO DO THAT QUICKLY IN ORDER FOR US TO WIN AND BE A STATEWIDE PARTY, BE SUCCESSFUL AND ALSO BECOME THE GOVERNOR.

AND I THINK THAT'S OUR UPHILL BATTLE AND THAT'S WHAT JACK FACES.

>> ALL RIGHT, ASSEMBLY REPUBLICAN LEADER JON BRAMNICK, THANKS, MAN, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANKS FOR COMING ON.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

BYE-BYE, EVERYBODY.

>> ALL RIGHT, LET'S WELCOME THE PANEL BACK IN HERE.

CHARLIE, THOUGHTS ON DEBATE NIGHT?

>> I THOUGHT IT WAS -- I HEAR HIS CONCERN ABOUT CIVILITY, BUT -- AND I ALSO AGREE THAT THE YAHOO YELPING OF THE CROWD DID NOBODY ANY FAVORS.

AND IT ALSO TOOK TIME AWAY FROM MORE THOROUGH ANSWERS AND MORE QUESTIONS.

THAT SAID, THOUGH, I, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT DID HELP -- I DON'T THINK IT ADVANCED, YOU KNOW -- I DON'T THINK CIATTARELLI NEEDED A BIG KNOCKOUT BLOW TO CHANGE THE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE RACE.

I DON'T KNOW -- CHANGE THE COURSE OF IT.

I DON'T THINK HE SUCCEEDED IN DOING IT, BUT I THOUGHT THEY BOTH DID A GOOD JOB OF JUST SORT OF NARROWING THEIR CORE MESSAGE AND DEFENDING IT.

BUT IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, CHANGING THE CONTOURS OF THIS RACE, NOT MUCH.

I THOUGHT, ALSO, CIATTARELLI SEEMS TO BE USING THESE DEBATES, AND I KNOW MATT WILL PROBABLY -- MATT'S TOUCHED ON THIS TO KIND OF ADD SOME MORE MODERATE BRUSH STROKES TO HIS IMAGE.

BUT OVERALL, I THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, THE DYNAMICS OF THE RACE VICE PRESIDENT CHANGED.

>> STACIE, MAYBE 150 YEARS AGO, THEY WOULD THROW IN, YOU KNOW, TOMATOES AND ACTUAL RAW MEAT AT CANDIDATES, SO I GUESS THIS IS LESS UNCIVIL THAN THAT.

BUT WHAT DID YOU THINK ABOUT THE DEBATE NIGHT?

>> I THOUGHT YOU WERE A GREAT AUDIENCE COP.

I WAS CHECKING OUT YOU CALMING THEM DOWN AND TRYING TO KEEP IT, YOU KNOW, THE POINT IS WE WANTED TO GET AS MANY QUESTIONS IN AS POSSIBLE.

AS MANY GOOD QUESTIONS IN AS POSSIBLE.

AND THE MORE ROWDY THEY ARE, THE LESS QUESTIONS YOU GET.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK IT WAS -- IT'S THE CANDIDATES WHO GET TO CHOOSE WHO'S IN THE AUDIENCE, IF I'M CORRECT, SO IT'S -- >> PORTIONS OF THAT, YEAH.

>> RIGHT?

SO, PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE AND THEY'RE THERE TO CHEER ON THEIR CANDIDATES AND TO -- SO THEY DID WHAT THEY WERE EXPECTED TO DO, BUT IT'S JERSEY, YOU KNOW?

JERSEY'S GOT ATTITUDE, AND SO DOES THE AUDIENCE.

BUT IT DID TAKE AWAY FROM THE NIGHT.

>> MATT?

YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> IT'S CERTAINLY IN MORE RECENT YEARS IT'S EASIER TO LAMENT CIVILITY BUT IN TERMS OF WHERE THIS COUNTRY WAS 160, 170 YEARS AGO, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAD A ABOLITIONIST SENATOR NEARLY BEATEN TO DEATH ON THE FLOOR BY A PRO-SLAVERY CONGRESSMAN, IT DOESN'T LOOK THAT BAD.

THAT BEING SAID, I DO THINK THAT THIS SORT OF -- THIS CULTURE -- THERE'S MORE OF A HATE BETWEEN SIDES.

IT'S MORE ABOUT VIEWING THEM AS THE ENEMY, AND YES, TRUMP DIDN'T CREATE IT BUT HE CERTAINLY POPULARIZED IT AND BECAME THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE THAT PEOPLE REALIZED, OH, YOU CAN BE LIKE THIS AND ACTUALLY WIN AN ELECTION.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S DIFFERENT.

AND THE -- THERE'S A CERTAIN VICIOUSNESS IN SOME OF THE POLITICS, AND SOME OF THE CANDIDATES WHO CIATTARELLI RAN AGAINST IN THE PRIMARY, THEIR TONE, WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT THOSE THINGS, THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT OPPONENTS, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT WAYS OF LIFE THAT ARE DIFFERENT.

THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT VACCINE CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

YOU KNOW, CIATTARELLI WASN'T.

BUT THIS WAS A PART OF THE BASE THAT HE HAD TO CONTEND WITH.

I WAS IN-PERSON AT ONE OF THE DEBATES, THOUGH IN A SEPARATE ROOM, AND I WATCHED THE OTHER DEBATE ON TV.

THERE WAS DEFINITELY YELLING FROM SUPPORTERS OF BOTH CANDIDATES GOING ON, BUT IT SEEMED LIKE MURPHY WAS GETTING A LOT MORE OF THE BOOING DIRECTED AT HIM.

SO, YEAH, I THINK IT'S UGLY.

AND I THINK THE -- THE SORT OF RHETORIC IS, LIKE, WE HAVE A POLITICAL SUCCESS WHERE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HASH OUT OUR DIFFERENCES.

NOT EVERYTHING IS A FIGHT FOR YOUR VERY SURVIVAL.

AND I KIND OF WISH WE COULD REMEMBER THAT A LITTLE BIT.

LIKE IT IS A POLITICAL SYSTEM THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO WORK THROUGH HERE.

WE'RE NOT YOUR ENEMIES.

THEY'RE YOUR OPPONENTS.

>> LET'S HEAR WHAT THE CANDIDATES HAD TO SAY ABOUT THE AUDIENCE AND GET A LITTLE FLAVOR OF HOW THIS DEBATE ENDED.

>> ONE THING THEY DID DO BY RESPONDING IS THEY CUT DOWN, I THINK SHE SAID THIS, THE NUMBER OF QUESTIONS WE GOT ASKED.

SO THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROBABLY GET TO TWO OR THREE MORE QUESTIONS, I WOULD BET, OR REBUTTALS, YOU KNOW?

FOR INSTANCE, HE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT, WHY'D YOU WANT THE JOB IN THE FIRST PLACE?

I WANTED TO SAY, I WANTED THE JOB IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE I WANTED TO FIX NEW JERSEY AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE DOING BUT I DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO SAY THAT.

ALL THE COMPANIES THAT ARE COMING INTO NEW JERSEY, I THINK THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN GOOD FOR FOLKS TO HEAR THAT THE LIST IS A LOT LONGER OF THE COMPANIES AND FAMILIES COMING IN THAN ARE LEAVING NEW JERSEY.

BUT I THINK THAT'S THE BIG IMPACT OF THIS THING.

NOT ENOUGH QUESTIONS GOT ASKED.

>> WE STAND UP FOR WOMEN'S REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOMS.

>> FOLKS, PLEASE ALLOW THE CANDIDATES TO FINISH.

>> A POLICY THAT DONALD TRUMP'S GREATEST LEGACY IN THE SUPREME COURT.

I KNOW WHERE I AM.

DON'T SIT THIS ONE OUT.

SERVING AS YOUR GOVERNOR IS THE HONOR OF MY LIFETIME.

I'M ASKING FOR FOUR MORE YEARS TO KEEP WORKING TO DO THINGS RIGHT.

>> THE AUDIENCE WAS ROWDY.

I THINK IT MADE IT MORE CHALLENGING.

WE APPLAUD THEIR ENTHUSIASM, BUT IT CERTAINLY MADE IT MORE CHALLENGING.

YOU KNOW, WHAT I THOUGHT I HEARD IN THE BEGINNING IS YOU GET 60 SECONDS, THEN SOMEBODY GETS 30 SECONDS AND IF SOMEBODY USES THEIR 30 SECONDS TO CRITICIZE YOU, YOU CAN HAVE REBUTTAL.

I HAD TO ASK PERMISSION FOR THAT AND THAT'S NOT TO BE CRITICAL OF OUR MODERATOR, BRIANA VANNOZZI.

BUT THE WHOLE DEBATE SEEMED A LITTLE BUMPY.

>> A LITTLE BUMPY.

IT SEEMED, CHARLIE, AND MATHED TOUCHED ON THIS A LITTLE BIT, THAT IT WAS AN ORGANIZED EFFORT TO DISRUPT MURPHY.

DID YOU GET THAT SENSE?

>> YEAH, I DID FROM MY PERCH AT HOME.

I GOT A SENSE THAT THE, YOU KNOW, I THINK BOTH SIDES BROUGHT IN THEIR CHEERING SQUADS, BUT I DO NOTE THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY PUT OUT A TWEET THE NEXT DAY, SAYING, YOU KNOW, WOW, CHECK OUT HOW THE CROWD BOOED -- RELENTLESSLY BOOED PHIL MURPHY AND IT WAS PART OF A FUND-RAISING SOLICITATION, SO WAS IT AN ORGANIZED EFFORT?

I DON'T KNOW.

BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK THEY BOTH TRIED TO PACK THE AUDIENCE WITH THEIR PARTISANS AND IT SEEMS LIKE THE CIATTARELLI CROWD WON OUT.

>> I WANT TO ASK ALL OF YOU THIS.

YES OR NO.

DO YOU THINK THAT THERE SHOULD BE AUDIENCES AT DEBATES ANYMORE?

START WITH YOU, MATT.

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

IT'S A BIG PART OF OUR ELECTIONS AND THERE SHOULD BE AUDIENCES.

MAYBE WE SHOULD ENFORCE THE RULES A LITTLE MORE STRONGLY AND LIKE WHAT BRAMNICK SAID, THREATEN IF PEOPLE ARE UNRULY, THEN WE'LL TAKE -- NOT AN EASY THING TO DO WHEN YOU HAVE A ONE-HOUR DEBATE AND IT HAS TO BE TELEVISED AND THERE ARE SCHEDULES TO DEAL WITH SO NOT NECESSARILY EASY TO CLEAR THE ROOM BUT MAYBE THERE'S A WAY TO ENFORCE IT A LITTLE MORE STRICTLY.

OR PERHAPS THERE'S A WAY TO HAVE THE -- MAYBE THE AUDIENCE SHOULD SIT IN A SEPARATE ROOM OR BEHIND A GLASS BARRIER OR MAYBE IN A JAIL CELL, I DON'T KNOW.

BUT I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD CLOSE OFF DEBATES FROM AUDIENCES.

IT'S TOO IMPORTANT.

>> STACIE, JAIL CELLS?

>> I DON'T THINK A JAIL CELL.

I THINK IT'S PART OF THE PROCESS.

YOU KNOW, THE DEBATES -- AUDIENCES, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST PART OF IT.

THE POINT OF AUDIENCES, I GUESS, IS TO KIND OF RUFFLE UP THE CANDIDATES AND SEE HOW THEY REACT TO BEING -- AND THAT'S PART OF THE PROCESS IS WHEN YOU'RE GOVERNOR, YOU'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, GET A LOT OF QUESTIONS AND YOU'RE GOING TO GET ANGRY PEOPLE AND HOW THEY RESPOND TO IT, PEOPLE WANT TO SEE HOW THEY RESPOND TO IT.

SO IT'S KIND OF -- IT'S PART OF HOW IT IS.

I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD GO AWAY.

>> I JUST WANTED TO NOTE THAT I -- THERE'S CERTAIN RADIO PERSONALITIES AND PEOPLE LIKE THAT WHO GO ON AND ARE ENCOURAGING THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR.

WHEN THIS WOMAN WAS JUST SCREAMING AT MURPHY WHEN HE WAS HAVING DIN WENER WITH HIS FAMIL BACK IN THE WINTER, AND JUST SCREAMING, HARPING, JUST AWFUL, WHATEVER YOU THINK OF THE GOVERNOR, IT WAS JUST AN UGLY SCENE, AND I DON'T THINK ANYONE SITTING THERE WANTED TO VIEW IT.

AND THERE WERE PEOPLE ON 101.5 ENCOURAGING THIS.

LIKE, OH, NO, THIS IS WHAT WE NEED TO SEE.

LIKE, NO, BECAUSE IT'S -- YOU KEEP GOING IN THIS DIRECTION AND IT CAN LEAD TO SOME PRETTY UGLY THINGS.

>> THAT'S TRUE.

CHARLIE, ON DEBATE NIGHT, IS THAT JUST A GAUNTLET THAT CANDIDATES HAVE TO WALK NOW?

>> YEAH.

BUT I DO THINK IT COULD BE MANAGED BETTER, AND I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THREE OR FOUR MORE DAVID CRUZES PATROLLING THE AISLE MIGHT -- WITH A GLARE ON THEIR FACE MIGHT GET IT DONE.

BUT YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK BRAMNICK -- CERTAIN PEOPLE GET TOO LOUD, YOU THROW THEM OUT.

BUT I DO THINK IT'S AN ESSENTIAL PART OF THE DEBATE TO HAVE AN AUDIENCE AND HAVING THE CANDIDATES -- THE CANDIDATES ARE JUST GOING TO BEHAVE DIFFERENTLY IN FRONT OF AN AUDIENCE AND IT MAY SHARPEN THEIR RHETORIC, FORCE THEM TO SHARPEN THEIR RHETORIC.

IT MAY MAKE THEM MORE REVEALING.

I DON'T KNOW.

BUT I THINK IT'S AN ESSENTIAL PART OF IT.

YOU CAN'T HAVE WHAT HAPPENED THE OTHER NIGHT ALL THE TIME.

>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT GLARE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

>> WELL, YOU -- >> GO AHEAD, MATT.

>> I JUST, I MEAN, THERE WAS SOME SUBSTANTIVE STUFF IN THERE THAT WE PROBABLY SHOULDN'T IGNORE AND I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING THAT AT BOTH DEBATES, CIATTARELLI, TWICE, BROUGHT UP ISSUES THAT ARE VERY MUCH ALONG MODERATE LINES OR EVEN APPEALING TO DEMOCRATS, LIKE, IN THE FIRST DEBATE, HE SUPPORTED THE LAWS TO ALLOW UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS TO QUALIFY FOR DRIVER'S LICENSE, SOMETHING HE HAD PREVIOUSLY SAID HE WOULD REPEAL.

THE SECOND DEBATE, HE SAID THAT HE WOULD SUPPORT CODIFYING, AT LEAST THE LIMITED ABORTION RIGHTS THAT HE SUPPORTS INTO LAW, WHICH WAS ALSO A NEW THING FOR HIM TO SAY.

THIS IS SORT OF A JACK CIATTARELLI THAT WE KNEW WHEN HE WAS IN THE ASSEMBLY.

IT'S NOT THE ONE THAT WE KNEW UP UNTIL THE SUMMER, THROUGH THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY AND AFTERWARDS AS HE TRIED TO HOLD ON TO THIS TRUMP BASE AND REALLY STRETCH THE MORE CONSERVATIVE THEMES.

SO, I MEAN, THAT'S THE BIG QUESTION HERE IS WHETHER HE'S GIVEN MURPHY ENOUGH ROPE WITH THE PRO-TRUMP STUFF FROM A FEW MONTHS AGO.

>> AND IF I COULD JUST ADD TO THAT, TO MATEEN'S POINT, CIATTARELLI WAS TRYING TO -- BY TOUCHING OF THOSE MODERATE THEMES, HE WAS PLAYING TO AN AUDIENCE OUTSIDE THE ROOM, AND TO THAT EXTENT, HIS CROWD, HIS PEOPLE INTERFERED WITH THAT TO A DEGREE.

BECAUSE THEY'VE BECOME A BIGGER PART OF THE STORY THAN WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

>> I THINK THEY'RE RIGHT.

I MEAN, CIATTARELLI'S TRYING TO APPEAR CALM AND COOL AND LEVEL-HEADED AND THEN THE AUDIENCE ISN'T DOING HIM ANY FAVORS, HIS SUPPORTERS, BECAUSE THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, ACTING OUT OF CONTROL, AND HE'S TRYING TO PORTRAY THIS IMAGE OF, YOU KNOW, THAT HE'S NOT LIKE TRUMP.

>> WORD THIS WEEK THAT GEORGE, THE GOVERNOR'S CHIEF OF STAFF, IS RESIGNING TO TAKE THE LEAD IN THE GOVERNOR'S CAMPAIGN.

WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT, DO YOU THINK, MATT?

>> I THINK THE SIGNIFICANCE IS PARTLY THAT THERE'S NOT A LOT TO DO ON THE OFFICIAL FRONT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IT'S ALL GOING TO PICK UP AFTER THE ELECTION.

>> BUSY WORK?

>> RIGHT.

YOU CAN'T DO BOTH THINGS AT ONCE.

IS IT A PANIC MOVE?

I DON'T THINK SO, BECAUSE I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING TO INDICATE THAT THERE'S A REASON FOR THEM TO PANIC.

YEAH, THE RACE IS TIGHTENED SOMEWHAT BUT WE HAVEN'T SEEN ANY INDICATIONS.

WE'RE LOOKING AT THE VOTE BY MAIL RETURNS AND THERE'S NOTHING PARTICULARLY ALARMING FOR DEMOCRATS IN THERE.

THEY'RE SLIGHTLY BELOW PERCENTAGE-WISE WHERE THE REPUBLICANS ARE BUT THERE ARE SO MANY MORE VOTERS FOR DEMOCRATS THAT THEY HAVE A BIG LEAD THERE.

AND I DON'T -- I JUST HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING THAT SUGGESTS THIS RACE IS IN A TAIL SPIN THAT NEEDS A DOCTOR TO COME IN AND FIX IT.

I THINK MURPHY WOULD LIKE TO RUN UP THE NUMBERS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S THE SAME REASON PEOPLE ARE SUGGESTING THAT OBAMA COMING IN FOR MURPHY INDICATES THAT THEY'RE GETTING DESPERATE AND THEY NEED THE BIG GUNS TO COME HELP THEM, BUT YOU KNOW, LIKE HE HAD OBAMA IN 2017, AND THAT RACE WAS NEVER IN DOUBT.

>> I COULD -- JUST, YOUR POINT ABOUT IT NOT BEING, YOU KNOW, DON'T THINK IT BEING PANIC MODE, I SEE THAT POINT.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I WONDER IF LIKE, IT'S A COUPLE WEEKS BEFORE THE ELECTION, YOU DON'T USUALLY MAKE BIG CHANGES UNLESS YOU NEED TO.

RIGHT?

SO, GEORGE IS EXTREMELY RESPECTED IN THE ADMINISTRATION AND I WONDER -- I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THEY ARE IN PANIC MODE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THIS MIGHT INDICATE A NEED, RIGHT, OR A DESIRE TO BEEF THINGS UP ON THE MURPHY SIDE.

>> CHARLIE?

>> MY READ ON IT IS A LITTLE CLOSER TO MATT'S, AND THAT'S, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT PANIC, BUT HE'S THE GUY WHO RESTORED ORDER TO THE ADMINISTRATION AND PUT IT ON THIS TRACK THAT PREPARED THE ADMINISTRATION FOR THE ELECTION.

BY BASICALLY CREATING THIS DETENTE WITH HIS INNER PARTY ENEMIES, PARTICULARLY IN SOUTH JERSEY.

SO, I THINK THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO LEAVE NO STONE UNTURNED, HAVE THE GENERAL WHO MANAGED THE ADMINISTRATION TOWARD THIS END TO BRING THEM OVER THE FINISH LINE.

I THINK THEY ARE REALLY FEELING THE HEAT OF HISTORY AS WELL, NOT ONLY DO THEY WANT TO WIN BUT BE THE FIRST DEMOCRAT IN FOUR DECADES TO WIN A SECOND TERM AND I THINK THIS IS MORE OF A, LEAVE NO STONE UNTURNED.

>> SOMETHING LIKE A QUARTER OF THE MAIL-IN BALLOTS ARE ALREADY RETURNED.

EARLY VOTING STARTS NEXT WEEK.

REAL QUICK ANSWER FROM ALL OF YOU.

LET'S START WITH YOU, STACIE, IS IT OVER?

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S OVER.

SEVERAL WEEKS, ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN.

VERY CLOSE.

>> CHARLIE, IS IT OVER?

>> I THINK IT WILL TAKE SOME, YOU KNOW, INTERVENTION BUT NO, IT'S NOT -- I THINK IT'S NOT OVER, BUT IT'S STILL IN MURPHY'S -- STILL MURPHY'S TO WIN AT THIS POINT.

>> MATT, WE CAN'T SAY THAT IT'S OVER, I GUESS, BECAUSE NOBODY WILL READ OR WATCH ANYTHING THAT WE DO OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS, BUT IS IT OVER?

>> NO, IT'S NOT OVER, BUT THE TOPICS, THE DEBATE, EVERYTHING HASN'T SHIFTED IN A WAY THAT YOU WOULD WANT IT TO IF YOU WANTED A SURPRISE OUTCOME.

JUST WANT TO POINT OUT, WITH EARLY VOTING, DEMOCRATS ARE PUTTING A LOT OF PRESSURE ON ESSEX COUNTY ELECTION OFFICIALS BY BRINGING BARACK OBAMA INTO NEWARK ON THE FIRST DAY OF IN-PERSON EARLY VOTING FOR THE FIRST TIME THE STATE HAS EVER HAD IT.

I DON'T ENVY THEIR JOB THAT DAY.

>> RIGHT.

ALL RIGHT.

THAT'S "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE" FOR THIS WEEK.

CHARLIE STYLE, STACIE SHERMAN, MATT FRIEDMAN, AND JON BRAMNICK FOR JOINING US.

YOU CAN FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER, @DAVIDCRUZNJ, AND BE SURE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE YOUTUBE CHANNEL TO GET MORE "CHAT BOX," NJ BUSINESS BEAT WITH RHONDA, AND NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS WITH BRIANA VANNOZZI.

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